For old folks in my generation, lol, the garden tractor was often a rite of passage before you got behind the wheel of a car. It was really the first step in driver's education! I remember a neighbor who would let kids drive his garden tractor up and down the road with him trotting alongside. What great memories! 👍
I still run IH cub cadets from the 1970s. One with a tiller, snowplow and cutting deck. They are 40+ years old and still work. I don't have to change out the attachments. 3 cubs and each one has a purpose.
I have a Cub Cadet and a John Deere. They’re the best for tilling in between garden rows, mowing over difficult terrain and using a lawn vacuum. Sometimes, a subcompact is still too big and a zero turn isn’t feasible.
A quality garden tractor does everything I need it to do. I think some people get caught up into thinking they “need” the newest and greatest. I don’t mind if it takes 20 minutes longer to mow the lawn; I’m in no hurry.
I still use my Sears Garden Tractors from the 70's. Tough machines! They can mow, but they also can garden with 3pt equipment and even had loaders available. It's the perfect size for gardening in an urban environment which is what they were designed for. Not so much "small acreage maintenance" which is what people are moving to and buying Tractors for.
For some folks, a sub-compact isn't a good option. Sometimes something between a sub-compact and a lawn mower is really needed. I have an older Wheel Horse 520H that I wouldn't trade for anything.
@@morrismonet3554 most shit is cheaper an crappier built why they don't last. I put my 88 john deere 318 up against any new new tractors aside from 4wd my 318 will out perform an out last them any day the week. Good example why a 34 yr old tractor still working perfect an you will never see any the new ones last that long or take the abuse
I run 2 vintage Case GT's on my property (1981 and 1982 444's). The build quality of the old machines cannot be had today, and it's doubtful that many of the modern machines will last as long. Simple to service/repair, most parts still available and lots of used machines can be had for little money. They aren't as fast as the modern machines, but are absolute tanks for pushing snow, gravel, dirt or pulling. And they sip fuel. They do a fine job mowing and many ground engaging attachments can be had as well. Love all the old GT's!
Love my GR2020 lawn tractor. 4WD with PTO. Mowing on slopes is easy and the 48" snowblower works great. It's a robust, flexible, very small turn tractor. A BX would not be able to manage the varied lawn areas we have.
@@marksullivan57 For steep slopes, the GR really has a niche, shared really only with the X7_8/9's from John Deere. From personal experience, they are less tippy than subcompact tractors and can go places zero turns break loose. The 4WD, lower center of gravity, and relatively wide wheelbase is the key. The GR's glide steer also gives pretty near zero turn turning; not quite as tight but also without the risk of slipping a rear wheel. That was the selling point for a (used) GR, they're so much more stable and maneuverable on the hills.
In 1979 I learned to mowe our 2.5 acre lawn on a late 60's John Deer 110. It certainly didn't get the mowing done anywhere near as fast as the Toro Z-Master we got many years later but it was a great little tractor.
I definitely agree the demand has taken a significant hit.. but I think there is still a place. I have a Kubota LX2610, with loader and backhoe but it's to big to mow my property with obstacles and hills. The large garden tractor is perfect because it can still haul a wagon, move around light trailers and is stable on hills.
There is a pretty big cult following of the old Sears Suburban gt. I found one for $200 for my electric conversion project. A gear drive was essential (hydro is inefficicent at transmitting power). Many people buy these for pulling events. In my case, I am very happy with its ability to tow a 3000lb camper around my small urban lot. Anything bigger would not work. Still has a stout rear end and stump pulling low gear. Nothing modern could fit my interest as they are all hydro, and there are a couple small manufacturers of battery powered compact tractors but still too big. (Monarch and Soletrac). Everything in the video made sense, I agree.
In the Midwest Garden Tractors still hold there value. Leaf cleanup, snow blowing or plowing, etc... The ZT is a one trick pony. While they mow well you throw in hills or other chores and they don't cut the mustard. A JD x700 series machine sells for at least 5k here(MI) most are closer to 10k so its very region dependent on what sells. I have a Simplicity Legacy and honestly a ZT isn't much faster cutting my yard, plus it struggles if the grass is wet with my hills.
Sold my 2009 JD x729 all wheel steer in the fall 2019. Loved that tractor. Dealer gave me great trade in price. Stepped up to 1025R just before the pandemic hit, got great dealer discounts. Both are great machines in my opinion.
The GR2120 is a beauty. Heavy and fast. Safe on slopes. I recommend a GR2120 if you want zero-turn speed but don't want to die from a rollover on a hill.
"...don't want to die from a rollover on a hill." So true. You can perform pretty stupid maneuvers on the GRs without tipping. I forgot myself mowing for my father on his zero turn and popped a wheelie on a slope that the GR can crawl right up.
I can see an area where the garden tractor still has use. A kubota gr series for instance does have a smaller footprint then a bx and can get into areas you can't get a bx into plus the advantage you will have over a zero turn is stability on slopes. If you want a mower and snowblower and don't plan on doing anything else with it and don't want a zero turn a heavy duty garden tractor may work out well for you. But again as mentioned that is a very small number of customers who need that especially considering the cost of that tractor you can step into a basic bx with a mower deck for roughly the same amount of money.
last year I went from a big box MTD "lawn tractor" to a Kubota B6200 with a Woods RM59. The MTD cut grass ok but got stuck on hills very easily, and the drive belts never lasted. The Kubota has four-wheel-drive, and works great even when the grass is a bit wet. I have a very hilly lawn, and couldn't use a zero-turn as it would lose traction.
That is a beautiful restoration on that 3 point corn planter. Haven’t seen one that nice looking for decades. Love your videos…always very informative!!
I’ve got 6 classic garden tractors at home 5 of whom are John Deere’s. One of em is a pulley swapped 116 which isn’t a GT, but it’s one in my fleet. Got a 67 110, 82 212, 83 210, & a 83 216. Then a 1973 sears suburban. Yanmar L70 swapped my Sears & my 212. Gonna try to drop the diesel from the sears I swapped to the 210. One of our elderly neighbors has a JD317 of which I am eyeing up to add to my fleet.
as a younger kid, my family had a 700 series John Deer garden tractor with a 60 in cut and it cut the grass just fine with no issues. Wish we kept that tractor
Yup. My dad is still riding around on an 89' 520h. His old 67' raider 9 WH is still cutting grass down the street at my brothers. Wanted a 500 series in the worst way but that ship sailed. Old customer of mine is a tubing MFG that is actually in the original Wheel Horse plant in South Bend IN. It sucked to work in there and see something other than tractors leaving the factory.
@@lesstech74 I worked at a large Toro/WH dealer in the 90s through Jr. High and High School. We didn't sell many tractors, as we're in densely populated suburbs, but we did move a few 416s and 520Hs, and a number of 2 series tractors. I remember a 520H we sold to a municipality with a Kwik-Way FEL, dual rear ag tires, weights, etc. Problem was the motion drive was on the same side of the column as the loader controls and there was no power steering. Still, awesome tractors that have quite a following today.
I can verify that my wife's B2601 does a nice job of mowing and deck is easy to remove and install. My cub cadet SLT1550 is a PITA to remove deck. !! I don't drive over the deck just slide it on concrete floor.. I call the B2601 hers because I wanted a BX1880 , she wanted the B2601 and has mostly paid for it from her check 🤣
@@C_J_81 Both 100% satisfied with B :) We have been married 42 years she has seen before buying then re buying bigger wood working tools is good example.
You're so right Neil. I still have my Kubota G1800-s and would probably replace it with another similar machine because I use it to roll and aerate blus pull a sprayer and spreader with it. I will day all of these task could be done with my BX. I will say the 4 wheel steering allows for that near zero turn performance, it is lighter than the BX. I think there is still a market for the garden tractors, but it is much smaller than before.
Neil you covered the topic well, but there are always exceptions to your assessment. Take my case. I have a steep yard in southwest Virginia. We have one section of yard that is so steep I had to hold on the roll bar to keep a neighbors JD 855 from turning over. I demonstrated a JD 1025R that I had to hold on to the rollbar too while my wife drove it along. A zero turn will not stay on that section either. Our old JD 322 will mow it no problem. I bought a JD X758. It will mow that section with no problems due to the lower center of gravity than the JD 1025R. Another problem is that the sub compacts don't have enough weight to dig in undisturbed ground with the loader, or other chores either. I didn't need ground engaging attachments either as I have farm tractors for those chores. My dad had 3 riding lawn mowers (Sears and Cub Cadet) in the 70's and 80's the belt drive hydros would fail on the steep yard after 5 or 6 years, so he bought the JD 322. It is still going after 32 years nothing else would hold up. The garden tractor still has its place in some applications. I hope the JD X758 will be as good as the JD 322.
We have Sears Garden tractor, we have almost 2 acres. We have tight property and hilly so we can only limit use of our old Kabuto tractor that we also own . Our Sears is the Work here.
My little 17hp lawn tractor is perfect for my .26 acre suburban lot. The lot is too large to use a push mower on hot Houston days and my little lawn tractor gets the front and back done in 1/2 hour. I have a dinky, light duty ag trailer I can pull behind the one-wheel drive to haul stuff in an out so it Does have a very specific use case. Same for my Tym T454 with backhoe and my Kubota RTV 900 side-by-side (now outfitted with a 3 point!) - Keep up the great work!
I’ve got a 18yr old JD GX335 we’re looking to replace with a B2601. We’ll still be using it for mowing, tilling but we’ll have the addition of a FEL. In 18 years we averaged 57 hrs a year on the old JD, it’s time for it to find a new home.
One area where Deere Garden tractors surpasss many SCUT and zero turns is material collection systems. I am a current BX owner and have used the PTO powered kubota collection system and owned the Deere power flow system and powerflo was hands down a better collection system. Deere mid mount decks also make cleaner cuts than kubota.
Starting out in the tractor world with a gravely 816 and being its 3rd owner since 1985(roughly) for normal homeowner uses( plowing, rototilling, snowblowing, hauling firewood, and mowing) she's been a great machine for my needs. However, I think a nice tracked skidloader is in my future 🤑
That’s actually a very good comparison in terms of money. When I was looking at kubota originally a fully loaded kubota GR tractor and what I wanted in a BX 1880 was only a difference of a few thousand dollars. I decided to go with the BX. Best choice I ever made.
Yikes, well that's a shame. Guess I'll just keep sticking with my vintage IH Cub Cadet's.. They're worth putting a little money into hear & there, IMHO. 50+ years old and _still_ going strong! ✊
When I was a kid in the 80s they were everywhere. Dad had a John Deere 317 with a tiller and a couple other attachments. I remember that hooking up the hydraulic links to the implements was a pain in the ass. But it was pretty handy.
Same here, i have a cub cadet 147 with a belly mower and a tiller, and a 1650 for trailer pulling, weed spraying, discing, cultivating, scraping, i used to have a plow for it too, a tweaker stole it and scrapped it. Either way, love my cubs!!!
I prefer the 4wd GR tractor for most of the places I mow. The steeper lots are difficult on a zero turn. The subcompact is just a little large for maneuvering on smaller lawns and harder on the grass due to the weight. My Snapper riding mowers transmission can't handle the slopes very well but its cut quality is noticeably better. If I had to have only one machine it would be a tough choice.
I had a Kubota BX23 for 10 years. I had a mower, loader, and backhoe. I also collect old Cub Cadets. I have two Cub Cadet Super Garden Tractors. My 1782 Cub has a Kubota Diesel in it. It actually is better at mowing than the BX23 was. However... my 1782 was $10,000 in 1990... which adjusts to about $20,000 in 2022. The super garden tractors are just too expensive to really justify. They are a niche machine... but if they fit your niche the super garden tractor is excellent. For me... I have big equipment... so the super garden tractor works for me... as I have heavy machinery too. However for most people the subcompact is the better buy.
Funny thing is when I was trucking, I delivered machinery into JD plants and they used their diesel garden tractors to pull parts trailers around the plant. That was maybe 15 years ago. I asked what they cost and they were 8000.00 with no attachments. I got a zero turn with a 50" cut for a lot less that mows great.
We still love our old G6200h. That beast is just big enough for our lawn, and is just a flat out tank. I tried talking the primary operator, (it’s the wife’s machine) into a zero turn, but she isn’t interested.
My craftsman LT1000 that i got in 2003 is on its last legs. Going to try and save it this winter and fix it but not sure if i will be able. So now i am trying to decide if i get a new riding mower, try and find an old garden tractor for sale or add rear remotes to my Kubota B2650 and buy an offset ditch/ bank mower so i can mow around my pond. That would be a sweet option since i could also cut my 200ft ditch in the front yard. That would save the pain and strain on my ankle that i broke and am missing a piece of. I kinda like having a second mower tho, sometimes my tractor is tied up with other work and is not practical to constantly strip it down once a week to put the mid mower on just to cut grass. Decision Decision
My G2160 has the same 60 inch deck as my BX2230 but the G2160 is like a sports car when it comes to mowing speed, turn radius and using 1/3 less fuel. So the G2160 gets the close in work and the BX2230 gets the heavy work and the bagging duties.
I have a soft spot for the John Deere 425/445/455 garden tractors from the 90s, but you’re right. The price-to-capability ratio on them is terrible. IIRC the John Deere loaders you could put on them had a pathetic lift capacity of like 250lbs
ah memories I mowed with a JD 445 for several years when I was 12-14 back in the 90s great machine I loved the hydro drive, I went from the old pull start 30 inch snapper handle bar mower WOW what an upgrade
There is nothing worse on the price to capability ratio than a zero turn mower. Sub compacts are the jack of all trade, kind of sort of can do everything but good at nothing. The garden tractor is everything most people need.
I wonder how much of the decline is due to the changing character of suburbs. In the 60s & 70s most homeowners did their own yard work Or they paid a kid from the neighborhood to cut the grass and shovel the snow. I think that now half the people on my street hire a landscape contractor to mow the grass.
Absolutely. I grew up in the suburbs but we always cut our own grass. Dad would put in a vegetable garden each year. He had a Simplicity Broadmoor that we used for everything. He let me cut the neighboring yards with it when I turned 13. I earned money and he only asked I pay for the gasoline. I miss you Dad.
In the UK and Europe robotic mowers are becoming the replacements of garden and ride on mowers in most domestic user markets as they can cover areas a typical 36"- 42" ride on mowers can cover and due to the pandemic people realised that spending up to 3-6 hours a day mowing a lawn was taking valuable time away from enjoying being with the family. Zero turns are also becoming a popular choice as quite a few people who want to mow paddocks want a mower that can as you said mow larger areas quickly.
Restored and owned a couple of Deere, Gravely, and Honda garden tractor over the years. Wish I would have bought my BX1880 20 years ago. Love the quality of cut, handing, loader design, and control layout. A front end loader is still cheaper than back and knee surgery.
Have a JD 430 Diesel I bought new sometime in the 80s. Every thing about it still works perfectly. except the hydrostatic drive. It lunges when starting out and will not maintain the selected speed. Dealer says it can no longer get parts to fix it. For some reason, I don't know if this is true or just the fact that the younger techs don't know how to fix it. This is so sad, as itis a great machine.
I spent months wrestling with what to buy to take care of our new 6 acre property. I tried and tried to find a good used machine or even a combination of an older compact tractor and a used zero turn. I didn't want to break the bank, but also didn't want to have two machines to maintain if I could help it. I finally bit the bullet and bought a Kubota BX 2380 with a loader and belly mower. The financing terms are ridiculously good. They practically pay you to own the thing, and you can sell it in 10 years for a premium if you need to. 84 months with 0% financing? Crazy. I couldn't be happier. My only thing I wish I had is the backhoe, but I couldn't justify an extra $5K to get the 23S.
I just bought a new John Deere X750 don’t regret a thing it fit all of my requirements and I’m a Deere dealer employee so I got it at cost. I won’t lose much if I decide to sell it down the road.
had a zeroturn, but on my hills it did not do well. Have a larger tractor for other stuff, but for mowing a GR2120, the 4 wheel drive out preforms the zero turn.
Most people just need a mower so a tractor doesn’t fit that need as well as a dedicated machine like a zero turn. Plus nobody wants to be mowing all day so a zero turn it’s higher speed is the way to go for most. Garden tractor is a compromise, not the best mower, not the best tractor.
The Garden tractor became the subcompact tractor and a riding mower replace in it's lawn cutting spot around 1977 when MTD change all of them form garden tractor to riding mower the old B200 has the 60's loader arms form the garden tractor made in 60's early 70's
I was one of the oddball kids who didn't get to run a garden tractor. Instead my first motorized toy was my Attex six wheeler. My first riding mower is a Scag ssz and my loader is a Bobcat skid steer. So no steering wheel on any of my yard machines.
Hey Neil! Fantastic video. But you missed one cub cadet, the 2500 series. They were the all manual versions of the 3000 series with the same basic transmissions, frames, engines, capabilities.
Love the old deeres! Owner of two 316's (Onans), two 318's (one with 3pt), first year 1987 332 Diesel, first year 1983 420 (with 3pt and four way plow) and even snuck two G5200 Kubota Diesels into the collection..😏 I completely restore them. Anyone have a JD 322 or 430 let me know! I'm missing both of them for my line up! I use a 2002 BX2200 to mow with. Yard is steep. Zero turn don't cut it. 4wd is a must.
Kubota had a nice diesel one with a problematic electric steering. Deere had a 400 series in the 90's that rocked my cousin said. Except for the Deere's plastic cracking issues. They are commanding big money though so your better off with a BX if you want the 4x4, The Massey GC series front blade and blower interchange with the BX just a hose end difference .
My garden tractor is a TYM 454 cab rig, I feel like I can do anything with that machine and don't have to have a ztr so you get 3 to 15 grand back towards your purchase price.
I tried everything you could imagine to cut my grass. Lawn tractors up to 50", finish mowers behind tractors, even a 60" deck under a B series Kubota. But my Ferris IS2000Z changed my life. What a machine.
I would love some in-depth video's on the GR series like is it drive shaft or belt, how dose the 4x4 assist work, how is the snowblower powered (shaft or belt)
Also, walk behind tractors probably eat into the garden tractor market. My mother is getting older and her riding mower requires she step on pedal to raise and lower the mower deck manually. I could see her getting a garden tractor just for the power steer and power deck lift. She'd never want an actual tractor or zero turn because they're too different from what she is used to. She is probably the only market left for a garden tractor though.
I'd say the garden tractor itself have moved from being the practical machine it used to be to more a collectors item that people use for fun. I've got a bunch of working GT's over the years and collect various implements for them to use in my garden like they were intended but I would never recommend one to somebody that wants to work it for a self employed duty like market gardening or small scale landscaping.
Very interesting. I agree with your assessment. I had a great garden tractor for 20 years that I inherited. While I loved it, I wouldn't buy another due to the reasons that you mentioned.
I can't see them going away completely.Many people need a multipurpose machine that can mow,tow and blow snow. If the deck is leveled correctly, L&G tractors cut very well.
I like that Husqvarna garden tractor, basically a lawn mower with a heavy duty hydrostatic drive, large tires and actual hubs for wheels. I want the Husqvarna that has the electric lock rear diff
That zero turns will mow grass more efficiently is a fantasy, they are more productive due to their near zero turning radius but you take that same HP of engine and put it on a properly made regular riding and it'll do more faster. The transmission on zeros and that shitty thin height deck are very wasteful of power. I would take a center rear discharge riding over a zero twice every day of the week. Center rear discharge mowers are effectively more powerful than side transit mowers as well since they're not using 30% of the power applied to the blades to carry the grass from the further blade over to the output chute. We make some MONSTER zero-turn mowers down here in Florida that simply aren't available in the rest of the country unless you come get em. HP to HP a regular riding will out-mow a zero all day long on open areas and I doubt you'll find a functional mulching deck for a zero. Zero's are just ornamental lawn care niche machines. You get into some quirky problems with zeros like when you back up your wheelbase is increased enough that mowing backwards over hills will cut a little shorter and through troughs will cut a little higher. You get a lot more wear and tear on zeros as well. They're compact and difficult to maintain at times. In the end there's no point in getting a riding zero vs a standing zero since the standing is far more maneuverable and easier to work on and compact. I've seen companies use both types and very quickly they end up with 1 riding, 2 or more standing and "gun racks" for trimmers/hedgecutters and rakes on the standings. Bowlins made an articulated center deck that was excellent and Swisher made those 3 wheel front drives that were incredible for yarding. So there are 3 kinds of mowers that are better than a riding zero turn. Four if you're doing large well groomed areas with your Toro 5 reel.
And how sharp does a BX tractor turn while mowing? I have 3 Toro 5xi tractors: 520xi, 522xi and 520Lxi. Well built but in some ways overbuilt with too many points in the steering system to wear and cause steering slop. The smart turn feature is unnecessary. They were not offered with a 3pt hitch, locking differential or auxiliary hydraulics but I can find a decent running one with not too many hours for $1500 to $2000.
What is the McCormick planter next to the cub-cadet. It looks brand new, but I can’t believe it is, moreover why is it sitting on the used lot next to a cub-cadet garden tractor?
Neal, I see in the comments you correct people that have a lawn tractor and call it a garden tractor. Can the GR2120 really be considered a garden tractor? I know it has the power and weight, but you really can't put "garden" attachments on it. No cat 0 hitch, no plow or cultivator, not even a tiller. I'm not at all trying to throw off on it's capability of mowing or snow blowing. I have really been thinking about getting one, to replace my BX1880, because I mainly just mow with the BX. I would like to have something shorter turning. I have a lot of hills and obstacles, so I'm shifting the BX in and out of 4wd a lot, sometimes shift it in to keep from sliding down a hill, then shift it out at the bottom so I can turn better. There's more going on with having to shift the 4wd, hi and low range, etc. I feel sure my wife would get along better with a GR2120, and I farm, so I have bigger tractors and skid steer to do other jobs. I bought the BX because of resale value, and if I didn't like it I wouldn't be stuck. This is what concerns me about the GR.
Yeah, we discouraged GR's for most things you would use a garden tractor for. It's a fantastic mowing machine, but it's nothing like the traditional definition of the garden tractor.
Hmm... you can't pull anything with a zero turn and mowing over the bumps, under low branches and around the fiddly bits on a sub-compact is really no fun at all. Especially with a loader on. If you have a few steep hills or banks to mow with mud to cross, trees to pull out, wood to haul and only money for one machine then a good 4WD diesel garden tractor + trailer is not a luxury. My old X748 will do all that in style and I wouldn't swap it for any sub-compact. I've pulled my neighbour's Kubota ZT out of the mud with it on a few occasions. I agree with other commenters about the ridiculous pricing from JD - but these are durable machines and there are good bargains to be had in the used market. For real tractor work sub-compacts are of limited use - too light and no power. The only time I enjoyed using one was in a really tight area - like backfilling foundations when we dropped it inside the garage. For utility/estate work it really is worth saving your pennies and getting a larger frame machine. I have been impressed with my L4701 - it copes with most things we throw at it and in terms of price/performance is hard to beat.
Hi Neil. Firstly, thanks for all the informative videos. Despite watching many vids, I'm still undecided as to which tractor to get. We just bought a 24 acre farm. 20 acres are hay fields. Also gravel roads on the farm. I'm considering bailing small 3 string bales. Of course other farm jobs that will also require a tractor. I definitely need a cab. I understand PTO HP and tractor weight is important for hay farming. What would you recommend? I have widdled it down to 2 models but would love your input. Thank you again for the great videos.
@@MessicksEquip thank you so much for your quick response! The M7060 was one of the 2. The other was the Grand L60 but it just seemed a tad too small. It's a big purchase so I wasn't 100% sure. Thanks for helping!
@@MessicksEquip yes. It just seemed too light and not enough PTO hp for 20 acres. Watching videos of others doing hay work with smaller tractors was the only thing that made go hmmm. I help on our family farm (on the Isle of Man UK) every year during lambing season and hay days but it's large scale and old school stretching over many many acres, so a whole different ball game.
My yard is in that niche that forces me to have a niche tractor but as much as I want a BX that donkey-long loader just makes it unfeasible. I wish Kubota would copy my Cub Cadet 149 with a Allis Chalmers L110 loader grafted on the front. I got a video of it on my channel.
For me I just do mowing and snow removal. Have a John Deere gx345, 318 and 445. Subcompact is nice but for tight spaces that call for a 48 or 54 inch deck the x5 and x700s would work. My dad has a Kubota b series with loader. If I need it I'll borrow it 😂👍
Neil, I am more interested in that Mccormick 2 row corn planter to your right. I have an IH 260 converted from fast hitch to 3 point hitch. How about a video of that. Paul
It all depends on your terrain your mowing, zero steers are faster but horrible in steep hills, II have to sa five the speed for the hills I mow and a subcompact is slower than a garden tractor and not as stable on the steep hillsides, if you have flat ground to mow zero steer all the way, if you want to run a tiller or loader sub compact all the way, but the garden tractor for me plowing snow, mowing is more nimble and faster than a sub compact, once again application is key
Over here I would say that the big portion of ride-mowers are the "riders". The kind of front mounted cutters but the chassie of a "wheel loader". Allmost the manouveribility of a zero-turn, the possibility to go under bushes, the possibility for snow implements in the front and trailers/whatever i the rear. Since we don't have the same "estate-mindset" with large properties we don't have the same "need" for compact tractors. Tractors are often a little bigger +75hp, old from farming. Now we have some "cheap imports" that try to get in on the market, but we will see how it goes. If you know, you know...
Man, I sure don't want to loose any money, so sign me up for the $25,000 tractor and the $4000 zero turn! I mean, a 30 year old Case/Ingersoll 448 will pull a 6 foot mower behind it easy...and you can buy a mint one that runs great with every attachment they ever made for it for 5 grand....but hey, you're the expert.
I think what happened is manufacturers got greedy. They realized it was easy to push people into a larger, more expensive machine they knew the customer really had no use for at all other than mowing… So instead of continuing to innovate on smaller frames and making 36” attachments and implements. Like 36” snowblowers and rototillers that fit a smaller chassis. They just incentivized upselling. This is evidenced by the fact that older garden tractors had standard cat0 or limited cat1 3pt hitches and rear PTO. As well as available loaders, 4 wheel drive and Diesel engines. Today, however, garden tractors are $15,000-$20,000 lawn mowers. And nothing more. They offer no rear PTO, no 3 pt, no loaders, nothing. Now if you’ve got a really uneven or hilly terrain to mow, then yes. Today’s 4wd garden tractors are a better option than a zero turn. But, for most people… Even $10,000, let alone $15,000+, on something for only one specific task is a hard sell. Even if it does perform that one task incredibly well. So I think the lack of attachments and constant widdling down of features and options is what killed the garden tractor. Not slightly bigger machines that were more expensive but also more capable.
One thing that was pointed out below, was that many of those great garden tractors from the '80s and '90s, if their prices were adjusted for inflation today, you'd find they were quite a bit more expensive than today's modern subcompacts. A more modern supply chain is delivering more value for the money than what was possible 30 years ago.
@@MessicksEquip I’d like to see some proof of that, a study or some kind of test. I have farmers, ranchers and just people that had more land than an average person in my family and precisely NONE of them ever had to finance a garden tractor. I’ve not heard of anyone financing a garden tractor from back in the day. But today I very rarely hear about anyone with a subcompact or a zero turn that bought it outright. Now, sure, I’ll grant you that there’s definitely a little bit of a different mindset towards financing today than there was 30-40 years ago. But not much. I’m not taking about the 40s and 50s here. I’m talking 80s-90s. So while I do understand that some particular machines may have benefited greatly from mass production and volume… I think that might prove my point. The manufacturers realized. We don’t have to build the best product for the customer’s needs. We can just build this a push them into it. As opposed to building something that would better fit the needs of the average homeowner. The fact is that the average homeowner has very little use for a Diesel engine, 4 wheel drive or a loader, let alone a backhoe…This is why consumer grade zero turns have exploded in popularity. I personally know people, myself included, that if there were better options in the garden tractor market today. We would NEVER buy a zero turn. Primarily because they are so incredibly limited when it comes to doing ANYTHING other than mowing. Even something like towing a small garden trailer becomes a pain with a zero turn. But anyway getting back on track here… there’s a difference between inflation and general cost of products and services rise. In many areas. For example… as recently as the 80s one could get a new Suburban for under $15,000. While today suburbans and their other rebranded sisters sell for well over $100,000. I didn’t even pay that much for a 2,000 square foot house on 10 acres. That has almost nothing to do with inflation. And much more to do with how the vehicle evolved. It used to be a truck you could fit the family in. Now it’s a luxury car you can fit the family in.
@@brandoncrimmins6296 This is super easy to do (may make a good video). For example a Deere 420's price in 1983 was $6489. Punch that into a today's price calculator and its over $19,000. The migration into commodity implements all based on CAT0/1 and modern manufacturing make today's sub compacts a better value than the comparatively more niche garden tractor of the 80's.
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For old folks in my generation, lol, the garden tractor was often a rite of passage before you got behind the wheel of a car. It was really the first step in driver's education! I remember a neighbor who would let kids drive his garden tractor up and down the road with him trotting alongside. What great memories! 👍
That’s how I learned
Me to! My dads Work horse and then his JD
Tractor style lawn mowers are still very popular and fill this role for many people.
I still run IH cub cadets from the 1970s. One with a tiller, snowplow and cutting deck. They are 40+ years old and still work. I don't have to change out the attachments. 3 cubs and each one has a purpose.
will outlast any tractor made today my 77 300 deere will outpull my brothers 2001 4010 compact tractor
1976 cub 1650 still going! Owned 17yrs
Mtd turned cub cadet into trash the same way they did with the other brands they own
@@ChronicBongitis420 mtd is still better than AYP machines
@@angus4202 aren't they just a parts manufacturer?
I have a Cub Cadet and a John Deere. They’re the best for tilling in between garden rows, mowing over difficult terrain and using a lawn vacuum. Sometimes, a subcompact is still too big and a zero turn isn’t feasible.
A quality garden tractor does everything I need it to do. I think some people get caught up into thinking they “need” the newest and greatest.
I don’t mind if it takes 20 minutes longer to mow the lawn; I’m in no hurry.
I still use my Sears Garden Tractors from the 70's. Tough machines! They can mow, but they also can garden with 3pt equipment and even had loaders available. It's the perfect size for gardening in an urban environment which is what they were designed for. Not so much "small acreage maintenance" which is what people are moving to and buying Tractors for.
I got my Sears tractor from my father-in-law. had it for about 15 years now. Awesome tool.
It seems to me the Garden Tractors of yesterday are the "Sub-Compact" tractors of today.
This becomes more clear when you adjust old garden tractor prices for inflation.
For some folks, a sub-compact isn't a good option. Sometimes something between a sub-compact and a lawn mower is really needed. I have an older Wheel Horse 520H that I wouldn't trade for anything.
Nothing better looking than the old Wheel Horse garden tractors with a set of bar tires.
There are tons of things that are better now. Otherwise, they would still be making them.
@@morrismonet3554 most shit is cheaper an crappier built why they don't last. I put my 88 john deere 318 up against any new new tractors aside from 4wd my 318 will out perform an out last them any day the week. Good example why a 34 yr old tractor still working perfect an you will never see any the new ones last that long or take the abuse
I run 2 vintage Case GT's on my property (1981 and 1982 444's). The build quality of the old machines cannot be had today, and it's doubtful that many of the modern machines will last as long. Simple to service/repair, most parts still available and lots of used machines can be had for little money. They aren't as fast as the modern machines, but are absolute tanks for pushing snow, gravel, dirt or pulling. And they sip fuel. They do a fine job mowing and many ground engaging attachments can be had as well. Love all the old GT's!
Love my GR2020 lawn tractor. 4WD with PTO. Mowing on slopes is easy and the 48" snowblower works great. It's a robust, flexible, very small turn tractor. A BX would not be able to manage the varied lawn areas we have.
Don’t never get a zero then, because you’ll never go back
@@marksullivan57 For steep slopes, the GR really has a niche, shared really only with the X7_8/9's from John Deere. From personal experience, they are less tippy than subcompact tractors and can go places zero turns break loose. The 4WD, lower center of gravity, and relatively wide wheelbase is the key. The GR's glide steer also gives pretty near zero turn turning; not quite as tight but also without the risk of slipping a rear wheel. That was the selling point for a (used) GR, they're so much more stable and maneuverable on the hills.
In 1979 I learned to mowe our 2.5 acre lawn on a late 60's John Deer 110. It certainly didn't get the mowing done anywhere near as fast as the Toro Z-Master we got many years later but it was a great little tractor.
Had a Toro Wheelhorse 12hp. Plowed great with chains.
I definitely agree the demand has taken a significant hit.. but I think there is still a place. I have a Kubota LX2610, with loader and backhoe but it's to big to mow my property with obstacles and hills. The large garden tractor is perfect because it can still haul a wagon, move around light trailers and is stable on hills.
There is a pretty big cult following of the old Sears Suburban gt. I found one for $200 for my electric conversion project. A gear drive was essential (hydro is inefficicent at transmitting power). Many people buy these for pulling events. In my case, I am very happy with its ability to tow a 3000lb camper around my small urban lot. Anything bigger would not work. Still has a stout rear end and stump pulling low gear. Nothing modern could fit my interest as they are all hydro, and there are a couple small manufacturers of battery powered compact tractors but still too big. (Monarch and Soletrac). Everything in the video made sense, I agree.
In the Midwest Garden Tractors still hold there value. Leaf cleanup, snow blowing or plowing, etc... The ZT is a one trick pony. While they mow well you throw in hills or other chores and they don't cut the mustard. A JD x700 series machine sells for at least 5k here(MI) most are closer to 10k so its very region dependent on what sells. I have a Simplicity Legacy and honestly a ZT isn't much faster cutting my yard, plus it struggles if the grass is wet with my hills.
Sold my 2009 JD x729 all wheel steer in the fall 2019. Loved that tractor. Dealer gave me great trade in price. Stepped up to 1025R just before the pandemic hit, got great dealer discounts. Both are great machines in my opinion.
I'm assuming you mow with the 1025r? How does it cut compared to the 700 series?
@@toddmoore139 In general, less maneuverable, and has a tendency to rip lawn when turning sharp. It does cut nice though.
Could you talk about that international corn planter that was next to the cub cadet you were sitting on.
The GR2120 is a beauty. Heavy and fast. Safe on slopes. I recommend a GR2120 if you want zero-turn speed but don't want to die from a rollover on a hill.
"...don't want to die from a rollover on a hill." So true. You can perform pretty stupid maneuvers on the GRs without tipping. I forgot myself mowing for my father on his zero turn and popped a wheelie on a slope that the GR can crawl right up.
I can see an area where the garden tractor still has use. A kubota gr series for instance does have a smaller footprint then a bx and can get into areas you can't get a bx into plus the advantage you will have over a zero turn is stability on slopes. If you want a mower and snowblower and don't plan on doing anything else with it and don't want a zero turn a heavy duty garden tractor may work out well for you. But again as mentioned that is a very small number of customers who need that especially considering the cost of that tractor you can step into a basic bx with a mower deck for roughly the same amount of money.
I keep a Sears gear drive garden tractor around for some tasks when not using my BX2380.
last year I went from a big box MTD "lawn tractor" to a Kubota B6200 with a Woods RM59. The MTD cut grass ok but got stuck on hills very easily, and the drive belts never lasted. The Kubota has four-wheel-drive, and works great even when the grass is a bit wet.
I have a very hilly lawn, and couldn't use a zero-turn as it would lose traction.
That is a beautiful restoration on that 3 point corn planter. Haven’t seen one that nice looking for decades.
Love your videos…always very informative!!
I thought that exact same thing. Watching Neil sitting next to it, I was kinda hoping that he would say something about it. Good eye
I’ve got 6 classic garden tractors at home 5 of whom are John Deere’s. One of em is a pulley swapped 116 which isn’t a GT, but it’s one in my fleet.
Got a 67 110, 82 212, 83 210, & a 83 216. Then a 1973 sears suburban.
Yanmar L70 swapped my Sears & my 212. Gonna try to drop the diesel from the sears I swapped to the 210.
One of our elderly neighbors has a JD317 of which I am eyeing up to add to my fleet.
as a younger kid, my family had a 700 series John Deer garden tractor with a 60 in cut and it cut the grass just fine with no issues. Wish we kept that tractor
It was a sad day when Toro pulled the plug on the Wheel Horse 4 and 5 series tractors.
Yup. My dad is still riding around on an 89' 520h. His old 67' raider 9 WH is still cutting grass down the street at my brothers. Wanted a 500 series in the worst way but that ship sailed. Old customer of mine is a tubing MFG that is actually in the original Wheel Horse plant in South Bend IN. It sucked to work in there and see something other than tractors leaving the factory.
@@lesstech74 I worked at a large Toro/WH dealer in the 90s through Jr. High and High School. We didn't sell many tractors, as we're in densely populated suburbs, but we did move a few 416s and 520Hs, and a number of 2 series tractors. I remember a 520H we sold to a municipality with a Kwik-Way FEL, dual rear ag tires, weights, etc. Problem was the motion drive was on the same side of the column as the loader controls and there was no power steering. Still, awesome tractors that have quite a following today.
I can verify that my wife's B2601 does a nice job of mowing and deck is easy to remove and install. My cub cadet SLT1550 is a PITA to remove deck. !! I don't drive over the deck just slide it on concrete floor.. I call the B2601 hers because I wanted a BX1880 , she wanted the B2601 and has mostly paid for it from her check 🤣
This is the first time I have heard of the wife wanting the bigger more expensive tractor. She you glad you got the B2601 instead?
@@C_J_81 Both 100% satisfied with B :) We have been married 42 years she has seen before buying then re buying bigger wood working tools is good example.
You're so right Neil. I still have my Kubota G1800-s and would probably replace it with another similar machine because I use it to roll and aerate blus pull a sprayer and spreader with it. I will day all of these task could be done with my BX. I will say the 4 wheel steering allows for that near zero turn performance, it is lighter than the BX. I think there is still a market for the garden tractors, but it is much smaller than before.
Neil you covered the topic well, but there are always exceptions to your assessment. Take my case. I have a steep yard in southwest Virginia. We have one section of yard that is so steep I had to hold on the roll bar to keep a neighbors JD 855 from turning over. I demonstrated a JD 1025R that I had to hold on to the rollbar too while my wife drove it along. A zero turn will not stay on that section either. Our old JD 322 will mow it no problem. I bought a JD X758. It will mow that section with no problems due to the lower center of gravity than the JD 1025R. Another problem is that the sub compacts don't have enough weight to dig in undisturbed ground with the loader, or other chores either. I didn't need ground engaging attachments either as I have farm tractors for those chores. My dad had 3 riding lawn mowers (Sears and Cub Cadet) in the 70's and 80's the belt drive hydros would fail on the steep yard after 5 or 6 years, so he bought the JD 322. It is still going after 32 years nothing else would hold up. The garden tractor still has its place in some applications. I hope the JD X758 will be as good as the JD 322.
We have Sears Garden tractor, we have almost 2 acres. We have tight property and hilly so we can only limit use of our old Kabuto tractor that we also own . Our Sears is the Work here.
I still have and use my john Deer that I purchased back in 1979.
My little 17hp lawn tractor is perfect for my .26 acre suburban lot. The lot is too large to use a push mower on hot Houston days and my little lawn tractor gets the front and back done in 1/2 hour. I have a dinky, light duty ag trailer I can pull behind the one-wheel drive to haul stuff in an out so it Does have a very specific use case. Same for my Tym T454 with backhoe and my Kubota RTV 900 side-by-side (now outfitted with a 3 point!) - Keep up the great work!
I’ve got a 18yr old JD GX335 we’re looking to replace with a B2601. We’ll still be using it for mowing, tilling but we’ll have the addition of a FEL. In 18 years we averaged 57 hrs a year on the old JD, it’s time for it to find a new home.
One area where Deere Garden tractors surpasss many SCUT and zero turns is material collection systems. I am a current BX owner and have used the PTO powered kubota collection system and owned the Deere power flow system and powerflo was hands down a better collection system. Deere mid mount decks also make cleaner cuts than kubota.
Starting out in the tractor world with a gravely 816 and being its 3rd owner since 1985(roughly) for normal homeowner uses( plowing, rototilling, snowblowing, hauling firewood, and mowing) she's been a great machine for my needs. However, I think a nice tracked skidloader is in my future 🤑
That’s actually a very good comparison in terms of money. When I was looking at kubota originally a fully loaded kubota GR tractor and what I wanted in a BX 1880 was only a difference of a few thousand dollars. I decided to go with the BX. Best choice I ever made.
This is one of the things I bemoaned when I bought my BX.
BX is almost too big but for the cost of a Deere x700 series or Cub Cadet xt3 series...
Yikes, well that's a shame. Guess I'll just keep sticking with my vintage IH Cub Cadet's.. They're worth putting a little money into hear & there, IMHO. 50+ years old and _still_ going strong! ✊
also alot of bigbox stores selling the cheap unreliable ones
When I was a kid in the 80s they were everywhere. Dad had a John Deere 317 with a tiller and a couple other attachments. I remember that hooking up the hydraulic links to the implements was a pain in the ass. But it was pretty handy.
Same here, i have a cub cadet 147 with a belly mower and a tiller, and a 1650 for trailer pulling, weed spraying, discing, cultivating, scraping, i used to have a plow for it too, a tweaker stole it and scrapped it. Either way, love my cubs!!!
I have a john deere X585 one of ther Earlier Ones and it's been an amazingly Reliable Mower And Even an Spreader
I prefer the 4wd GR tractor for most of the places I mow. The steeper lots are difficult on a zero turn. The subcompact is just a little large for maneuvering on smaller lawns and harder on the grass due to the weight. My Snapper riding mowers transmission can't handle the slopes very well but its cut quality is noticeably better. If I had to have only one machine it would be a tough choice.
I had a Kubota BX23 for 10 years. I had a mower, loader, and backhoe. I also collect old Cub Cadets. I have two Cub Cadet Super Garden Tractors. My 1782 Cub has a Kubota Diesel in it. It actually is better at mowing than the BX23 was. However... my 1782 was $10,000 in 1990... which adjusts to about $20,000 in 2022. The super garden tractors are just too expensive to really justify. They are a niche machine... but if they fit your niche the super garden tractor is excellent. For me... I have big equipment... so the super garden tractor works for me... as I have heavy machinery too. However for most people the subcompact is the better buy.
Funny thing is when I was trucking, I delivered machinery into JD plants and they used their diesel garden tractors to pull parts trailers around the plant. That was maybe 15 years ago. I asked what they cost and they were 8000.00 with no attachments. I got a zero turn with a 50" cut for a lot less that mows great.
The best choice for a Garden Tractor 🚜 is the Craftsman G5500 Mine was only $2,650.00 and it’s a beast ! Have over 200 hours and it cuts nice 👍
Lawn mower, not a garden tractor.
200 hours is nothing
Sold my Craftsman garden tractor. Gear drive with the 25 hp Kohler. 580 hours and didn’t burn any oil. Great reliable machine.
Upgraded to a B2601!
We still love our old G6200h.
That beast is just big enough for our lawn, and is just a flat out tank.
I tried talking the primary operator, (it’s the wife’s machine) into a zero turn, but she isn’t interested.
A lawn cart is a must have for the zero turn mower. I am always using mine.
My craftsman LT1000 that i got in 2003 is on its last legs. Going to try and save it this winter and fix it but not sure if i will be able. So now i am trying to decide if i get a new riding mower, try and find an old garden tractor for sale or add rear remotes to my Kubota B2650 and buy an offset ditch/ bank mower so i can mow around my pond. That would be a sweet option since i could also cut my 200ft ditch in the front yard. That would save the pain and strain on my ankle that i broke and am missing a piece of. I kinda like having a second mower tho, sometimes my tractor is tied up with other work and is not practical to constantly strip it down once a week to put the mid mower on just to cut grass. Decision Decision
I have a TG1860 diesel. Love it..think was last year when i got. Mows fast and great around my hills.
My G2160 has the same 60 inch deck as my BX2230 but the G2160 is like a sports car when it comes to mowing speed, turn radius and using 1/3 less fuel. So the G2160 gets the close in work and the BX2230 gets the heavy work and the bagging duties.
I have a soft spot for the John Deere 425/445/455 garden tractors from the 90s, but you’re right. The price-to-capability ratio on them is terrible. IIRC the John Deere loaders you could put on them had a pathetic lift capacity of like 250lbs
There where some good ones in the 90's. These still have some trade value to them, even 25 years later.
ah memories I mowed with a JD 445 for several years when I was 12-14 back in the 90s great machine I loved the hydro drive, I went from the old pull start 30 inch snapper handle bar mower WOW what an upgrade
There is nothing worse on the price to capability ratio than a zero turn mower. Sub compacts are the jack of all trade, kind of sort of can do everything but good at nothing. The garden tractor is everything most people need.
I kind of think a garden tractor would suit my application but the cost was impossible to justify.
I wonder how much of the decline is due to the changing character of suburbs. In the 60s & 70s most homeowners did their own yard work Or they paid a kid from the neighborhood to cut the grass and shovel the snow. I think that now half the people on my street hire a landscape contractor to mow the grass.
Absolutely. I grew up
in the suburbs but we always cut our own grass. Dad would put in a vegetable garden each year. He had a Simplicity Broadmoor that we used for everything. He let me cut the neighboring yards with it when I turned 13. I earned money and he only asked I pay for the gasoline. I miss you Dad.
In the UK and Europe robotic mowers are becoming the replacements of garden and ride on mowers in most domestic user markets as they can cover areas a typical 36"- 42" ride on mowers can cover and due to the pandemic people realised that spending up to 3-6 hours a day mowing a lawn was taking valuable time away from enjoying being with the family. Zero turns are also becoming a popular choice as quite a few people who want to mow paddocks want a mower that can as you said mow larger areas quickly.
Restored and owned a couple of Deere, Gravely, and Honda garden tractor over the years. Wish I would have bought my BX1880 20 years ago. Love the quality of cut, handing, loader design, and control layout. A front end loader is still cheaper than back and knee surgery.
Have a JD 430 Diesel I bought new sometime in the 80s. Every thing about it still works perfectly. except the hydrostatic drive. It lunges when starting out and will not maintain the selected speed. Dealer says it can no longer get parts to fix it. For some reason, I don't know if this is true or just the fact that the younger techs don't know how to fix it. This is so sad, as itis a great machine.
Don’t give up. Join a JD forum and ask. It can be fixed.
Went in John Deere looking at the 700 series came out with 1025r glad I did
I used a John Deere 212 for 34 years before I bought a used X320. I mow with it but use a Kubota L3010 for loader and 3pt work.
I spent months wrestling with what to buy to take care of our new 6 acre property. I tried and tried to find a good used machine or even a combination of an older compact tractor and a used zero turn. I didn't want to break the bank, but also didn't want to have two machines to maintain if I could help it. I finally bit the bullet and bought a Kubota BX 2380 with a loader and belly mower. The financing terms are ridiculously good. They practically pay you to own the thing, and you can sell it in 10 years for a premium if you need to. 84 months with 0% financing? Crazy. I couldn't be happier. My only thing I wish I had is the backhoe, but I couldn't justify an extra $5K to get the 23S.
I just bought a new John Deere X750 don’t regret a thing it fit all of my requirements and I’m a Deere dealer employee so I got it at cost. I won’t lose much if I decide to sell it down the road.
had a zeroturn, but on my hills it did not do well. Have a larger tractor for other stuff, but for mowing a GR2120, the 4 wheel drive out preforms the zero turn.
Most people just need a mower so a tractor doesn’t fit that need as well as a dedicated machine like a zero turn. Plus nobody wants to be mowing all day so a zero turn it’s higher speed is the way to go for most.
Garden tractor is a compromise, not the best mower, not the best tractor.
i liked garden tractors because the cub cadet one has a gas engine along with a drive shaft. wish i could still get one new
The Garden tractor became the subcompact tractor and a riding mower replace in it's lawn cutting spot around 1977 when MTD change all of them form garden tractor to riding mower the old B200 has the 60's loader arms form the garden tractor made in 60's early 70's
I was one of the oddball kids who didn't get to run a garden tractor. Instead my first motorized toy was my Attex six wheeler. My first riding mower is a Scag ssz and my loader is a Bobcat skid steer. So no steering wheel on any of my yard machines.
Hey Neil! Fantastic video. But you missed one cub cadet, the 2500 series. They were the all manual versions of the 3000 series with the same basic transmissions, frames, engines, capabilities.
I had 2 CUB Cadet 3000 series and loved them but now I have a BX2380
Love the old deeres! Owner of two 316's (Onans), two 318's (one with 3pt), first year 1987 332 Diesel, first year 1983 420 (with 3pt and four way plow) and even snuck two G5200 Kubota Diesels into the collection..😏 I completely restore them. Anyone have a JD 322 or 430 let me know! I'm missing both of them for my line up! I use a 2002 BX2200 to mow with. Yard is steep. Zero turn don't cut it. 4wd is a must.
Kubota had a nice diesel one with a problematic electric steering. Deere had a 400 series in the 90's that rocked my cousin said. Except for the Deere's plastic cracking issues. They are commanding big money though so your better off with a BX if you want the 4x4, The Massey GC series front blade and blower interchange with the BX just a hose end difference .
My garden tractor is a TYM 454 cab rig, I feel like I can do anything with that machine and don't have to have a ztr so you get 3 to 15 grand back towards your purchase price.
I tried everything you could imagine to cut my grass. Lawn tractors up to 50", finish mowers behind tractors, even a 60" deck under a B series Kubota. But my Ferris IS2000Z changed my life. What a machine.
I would love some in-depth video's on the GR series like is it drive shaft or belt, how dose the 4x4 assist work, how is the snowblower powered (shaft or belt)
ruclips.net/video/iL1xJD9MNG0/видео.html
The kubota G1900 and B1750 were 2 of the best they made in tractor style mower.
Also, walk behind tractors probably eat into the garden tractor market. My mother is getting older and her riding mower requires she step on pedal to raise and lower the mower deck manually. I could see her getting a garden tractor just for the power steer and power deck lift. She'd never want an actual tractor or zero turn because they're too different from what she is used to. She is probably the only market left for a garden tractor though.
My g5200 is a beast, got every attachment kubota offered, 3ph and Rear pto.
I'd say the garden tractor itself have moved from being the practical machine it used to be to more a collectors item that people use for fun. I've got a bunch of working GT's over the years and collect various implements for them to use in my garden like they were intended but I would never recommend one to somebody that wants to work it for a self employed duty like market gardening or small scale landscaping.
Very interesting. I agree with your assessment. I had a great garden tractor for 20 years that I inherited. While I loved it, I wouldn't buy another due to the reasons that you mentioned.
I can't see them going away completely.Many people need a multipurpose machine that can mow,tow and blow snow. If the deck is leveled correctly, L&G tractors cut very well.
I like that Husqvarna garden tractor, basically a lawn mower with a heavy duty hydrostatic drive, large tires and actual hubs for wheels. I want the Husqvarna that has the electric lock rear diff
That zero turns will mow grass more efficiently is a fantasy, they are more productive due to their near zero turning radius but you take that same HP of engine and put it on a properly made regular riding and it'll do more faster. The transmission on zeros and that shitty thin height deck are very wasteful of power. I would take a center rear discharge riding over a zero twice every day of the week. Center rear discharge mowers are effectively more powerful than side transit mowers as well since they're not using 30% of the power applied to the blades to carry the grass from the further blade over to the output chute.
We make some MONSTER zero-turn mowers down here in Florida that simply aren't available in the rest of the country unless you come get em. HP to HP a regular riding will out-mow a zero all day long on open areas and I doubt you'll find a functional mulching deck for a zero.
Zero's are just ornamental lawn care niche machines.
You get into some quirky problems with zeros like when you back up your wheelbase is increased enough that mowing backwards over hills will cut a little shorter and through troughs will cut a little higher. You get a lot more wear and tear on zeros as well. They're compact and difficult to maintain at times. In the end there's no point in getting a riding zero vs a standing zero since the standing is far more maneuverable and easier to work on and compact. I've seen companies use both types and very quickly they end up with 1 riding, 2 or more standing and "gun racks" for trimmers/hedgecutters and rakes on the standings.
Bowlins made an articulated center deck that was excellent and Swisher made those 3 wheel front drives that were incredible for yarding. So there are 3 kinds of mowers that are better than a riding zero turn. Four if you're doing large well groomed areas with your Toro 5 reel.
And how sharp does a BX tractor turn while mowing?
I have 3 Toro 5xi tractors: 520xi, 522xi and 520Lxi. Well built but in some ways overbuilt with too many points in the steering system to wear and cause steering slop. The smart turn feature is unnecessary. They were not offered with a 3pt hitch, locking differential or auxiliary hydraulics but I can find a decent running one with not too many hours for $1500 to $2000.
What is the McCormick planter next to the cub-cadet. It looks brand new, but I can’t believe it is, moreover why is it sitting on the used lot next to a cub-cadet garden tractor?
Neal, I see in the comments you correct people that have a lawn tractor and call it a garden tractor. Can the GR2120 really be considered a garden tractor? I know it has the power and weight, but you really can't put "garden" attachments on it. No cat 0 hitch, no plow or cultivator, not even a tiller. I'm not at all trying to throw off on it's capability of mowing or snow blowing. I have really been thinking about getting one, to replace my BX1880, because I mainly just mow with the BX. I would like to have something shorter turning. I have a lot of hills and obstacles, so I'm shifting the BX in and out of 4wd a lot, sometimes shift it in to keep from sliding down a hill, then shift it out at the bottom so I can turn better. There's more going on with having to shift the 4wd, hi and low range, etc. I feel sure my wife would get along better with a GR2120, and I farm, so I have bigger tractors and skid steer to do other jobs. I bought the BX because of resale value, and if I didn't like it I wouldn't be stuck. This is what concerns me about the GR.
Yeah, we discouraged GR's for most things you would use a garden tractor for. It's a fantastic mowing machine, but it's nothing like the traditional definition of the garden tractor.
Hmm... you can't pull anything with a zero turn and mowing over the bumps, under low branches and around the fiddly bits on a sub-compact is really no fun at all. Especially with a loader on. If you have a few steep hills or banks to mow with mud to cross, trees to pull out, wood to haul and only money for one machine then a good 4WD diesel garden tractor + trailer is not a luxury. My old X748 will do all that in style and I wouldn't swap it for any sub-compact. I've pulled my neighbour's Kubota ZT out of the mud with it on a few occasions. I agree with other commenters about the ridiculous pricing from JD - but these are durable machines and there are good bargains to be had in the used market. For real tractor work sub-compacts are of limited use - too light and no power. The only time I enjoyed using one was in a really tight area - like backfilling foundations when we dropped it inside the garage. For utility/estate work it really is worth saving your pennies and getting a larger frame machine. I have been impressed with my L4701 - it copes with most things we throw at it and in terms of price/performance is hard to beat.
Hi Neil. Firstly, thanks for all the informative videos. Despite watching many vids, I'm still undecided as to which tractor to get. We just bought a 24 acre farm. 20 acres are hay fields. Also gravel roads on the farm. I'm considering bailing small 3 string bales. Of course other farm jobs that will also require a tractor. I definitely need a cab. I understand PTO HP and tractor weight is important for hay farming. What would you recommend? I have widdled it down to 2 models but would love your input. Thank you again for the great videos.
small utility tractor. Kubota M7060 \ NH Workmaster or Kubota T4 \ New Holland Powerstar.
@@MessicksEquip thank you so much for your quick response! The M7060 was one of the 2. The other was the Grand L60 but it just seemed a tad too small. It's a big purchase so I wasn't 100% sure. Thanks for helping!
@@xcape2usa I would not go the GL60 route for working in a hay field.
@@MessicksEquip yes. It just seemed too light and not enough PTO hp for 20 acres. Watching videos of others doing hay work with smaller tractors was the only thing that made go hmmm. I help on our family farm (on the Isle of Man UK) every year during lambing season and hay days but it's large scale and old school stretching over many many acres, so a whole different ball game.
@@MessicksEquip thanks again for the responses. Very much appreciated!
My yard is in that niche that forces me to have a niche tractor but as much as I want a BX that donkey-long loader just makes it unfeasible. I wish Kubota would copy my Cub Cadet 149 with a Allis Chalmers L110 loader grafted on the front. I got a video of it on my channel.
For me I just do mowing and snow removal. Have a John Deere gx345, 318 and 445. Subcompact is nice but for tight spaces that call for a 48 or 54 inch deck the x5 and x700s would work. My dad has a Kubota b series with loader. If I need it I'll borrow it 😂👍
Neil, I am more interested in that Mccormick 2 row corn planter to your right. I have an IH 260 converted from fast hitch to 3 point hitch. How about a video of that.
Paul
The Deere x700 is a bit overkill. They make a good x500 series with power lift and power steering
It all depends on your terrain your mowing, zero steers are faster but horrible in steep hills, II have to sa five the speed for the hills I mow and a subcompact is slower than a garden tractor and not as stable on the steep hillsides, if you have flat ground to mow zero steer all the way, if you want to run a tiller or loader sub compact all the way, but the garden tractor for me plowing snow, mowing is more nimble and faster than a sub compact, once again application is key
i was looking at that McCormick planter at the end it would fit my farmall230 tractor real nice :)
Over here I would say that the big portion of ride-mowers are the "riders". The kind of front mounted cutters but the chassie of a "wheel loader". Allmost the manouveribility of a zero-turn, the possibility to go under bushes, the possibility for snow implements in the front and trailers/whatever i the rear.
Since we don't have the same "estate-mindset" with large properties we don't have the same "need" for compact tractors. Tractors are often a little bigger +75hp, old from farming. Now we have some "cheap imports" that try to get in on the market, but we will see how it goes. If you know, you know...
I love my X595. 4 wheel drive, diesel, 3pt, loader, cab, and more. I don't need a subcompact.
Man, I sure don't want to loose any money, so sign me up for the $25,000 tractor and the $4000 zero turn! I mean, a 30 year old Case/Ingersoll 448 will pull a 6 foot mower behind it easy...and you can buy a mint one that runs great with every attachment they ever made for it for 5 grand....but hey, you're the expert.
Good video. I'd also like to hear your thoughts on lawn tractors, and how that market it faring.
Dont forget you can run off road deasil in the tractor so you aren't paying road tax on cutting your grass
Mowing on slopes and hills is where garden tractor still compete.
I think you are confusing them with lawn tractors, which are still widely available and better than zero turns on slopes.
Smaller lots, emissions and noise requirements took the market away for suburban owners.
I think what happened is manufacturers got greedy. They realized it was easy to push people into a larger, more expensive machine they knew the customer really had no use for at all other than mowing…
So instead of continuing to innovate on smaller frames and making 36” attachments and implements. Like 36” snowblowers and rototillers that fit a smaller chassis. They just incentivized upselling.
This is evidenced by the fact that older garden tractors had standard cat0 or limited cat1 3pt hitches and rear PTO. As well as available loaders, 4 wheel drive and Diesel engines.
Today, however, garden tractors are $15,000-$20,000 lawn mowers. And nothing more. They offer no rear PTO, no 3 pt, no loaders, nothing. Now if you’ve got a really uneven or hilly terrain to mow, then yes. Today’s 4wd garden tractors are a better option than a zero turn. But, for most people… Even $10,000, let alone $15,000+, on something for only one specific task is a hard sell. Even if it does perform that one task incredibly well.
So I think the lack of attachments and constant widdling down of features and options is what killed the garden tractor. Not slightly bigger machines that were more expensive but also more capable.
One thing that was pointed out below, was that many of those great garden tractors from the '80s and '90s, if their prices were adjusted for inflation today, you'd find they were quite a bit more expensive than today's modern subcompacts. A more modern supply chain is delivering more value for the money than what was possible 30 years ago.
@@MessicksEquip I’d like to see some proof of that, a study or some kind of test. I have farmers, ranchers and just people that had more land than an average person in my family and precisely NONE of them ever had to finance a garden tractor. I’ve not heard of anyone financing a garden tractor from back in the day. But today I very rarely hear about anyone with a subcompact or a zero turn that bought it outright. Now, sure, I’ll grant you that there’s definitely a little bit of a different mindset towards financing today than there was 30-40 years ago. But not much. I’m not taking about the 40s and 50s here. I’m talking 80s-90s.
So while I do understand that some particular machines may have benefited greatly from mass production and volume… I think that might prove my point. The manufacturers realized. We don’t have to build the best product for the customer’s needs. We can just build this a push them into it. As opposed to building something that would better fit the needs of the average homeowner.
The fact is that the average homeowner has very little use for a Diesel engine, 4 wheel drive or a loader, let alone a backhoe…This is why consumer grade zero turns have exploded in popularity. I personally know people, myself included, that if there were better options in the garden tractor market today. We would NEVER buy a zero turn. Primarily because they are so incredibly limited when it comes to doing ANYTHING other than mowing. Even something like towing a small garden trailer becomes a pain with a zero turn.
But anyway getting back on track here… there’s a difference between inflation and general cost of products and services rise. In many areas. For example… as recently as the 80s one could get a new Suburban for under $15,000. While today suburbans and their other rebranded sisters sell for well over $100,000. I didn’t even pay that much for a 2,000 square foot house on 10 acres. That has almost nothing to do with inflation. And much more to do with how the vehicle evolved. It used to be a truck you could fit the family in. Now it’s a luxury car you can fit the family in.
@@brandoncrimmins6296 This is super easy to do (may make a good video). For example a Deere 420's price in 1983 was $6489. Punch that into a today's price calculator and its over $19,000. The migration into commodity implements all based on CAT0/1 and modern manufacturing make today's sub compacts a better value than the comparatively more niche garden tractor of the 80's.