You made some great points, Matt. This is a topic that I have been considering and I came to the same conclusion as you. There’s definitely more money and selling and smalls. But dealing with 70+ convenient store customers in my regular job on a weekly basis I could get a lot of business for bundles. But you’re never gonna be able to compete with the big outfits that are out there and believe me from experience they will come in and cut your throat because they can afford to! Good stuff keep doing what works for you, brother👊🏻
All valid points Matt. Everyone's operations are different and they should do whatever works best for them and for whatever reasons they may have. Excellent video Matt!
I'm right with you on this. I keep thinking I want to do bundles but by the time I do everything to make bundles I can split another face cord and in my area i can get $200 per face cord all day long. I like that conveyor! I need to find one for our yard. Keep up the good work!
We just sell the bundles. I think that it is the way to go, at least for me. We used to sell cord wood, but I make quite a bit more per cord making bundles than I would selling it in bulk. We've been selling bundles for 13yrs now and yes, it is a little more labor intensive, but the profit margin is higher.
It’s funny you made this video,, I’ve been doing some studying on getting into bundles again. I stopped b/c I hate wrapping them and didn’t want to buy an expensive wrapper. Currently working on a bagging option since I have recently gotten an opportunity to sale at some retail locations. Great points you made, and great information!! 👊🏻
Haha great timing. The bagging station is the way to go for productivity in my opinion. I think it’s easier but I’m not so sure it’s any faster then a wrapper. Bundles are cheaper to make and bundles will last longer than bags in the sun.
Hi Matt, I totally agree with you on bundles. I haven't made on in a year. Still sell everything I can produce. Splitting is enjoyable, wrapping isn't.
I agree with you, people preach that bundles are worth more. Yes they are worth more but they also take a lot more time to make. When putting wood in your conveyor try holding your bucket at waist height, no more bending over. That’s how I stack all my wood out of my firewood bucket, lot less fatiguing.
@@FirewoodontheHill Also, put the bucket over the top of the conveyor so when you pull the wood from the bucket it can drop straight down into the conveyor. This method would save a lot of time. A hook tool may help to pull the wood out or may not help. Taller and wider sides on the conveyor (where are the wood drops) may or may not help. Putting more wood on the elevator will make the motor draw more electricity which may be a problem if the supply is not good. A long cord may have excessive voltage drop. The motor may not be large enough.
Mini bulk in a driveway stand or remote location is by far my favorite way to sell. No customer communications, they come to you, you just keep the racks filled. I’m bias though, I’m not a fan of bundling. I do it some but I certainly do not want to expand farther into bundles on the sole reason that I do not enjoy it.
I sell in bundles, face cord and full cords. If someone is expecting to get rich selling firewood, tgey neex to rethink selling firewood. Most of us do it for a littke extra play money!! Stay Hydrated and Have a Safe Day
Fantastic video. Thank you for the info. Question - How big are the bundles? If the bundles are 1 cubic square foot, shouldn't you make 42 bundles for a facecord (1/3 of a cord)?
I do mainly bulk, 1-2 cords at a time, sometimes up to six. I'd love to slowly change into mainly bundles in the next year. My reason is because it's difficult to compete in selling cords in my area. We are in a forest and although we sell out every year, when log prices went up over $400 per truck we we forced to raise prices and calls have been slow. It's a race to the bottom trying to compete with those who sell low quality wood at a lower price
Yeah that’s tough. Maybe you should sell truck loads? If you are already selling bulk wood you won’t even get close to the overall amount you make selling bundles. The numbers just aren’t there unless you are shipping across state lines.
Bundles have been selling good where I'm at in Wisconsin. I also have premium dry firewood tho. Wood I split last year. Only put the nicest straight pieces in the bundles. I have 3 bundle racks. Oak for $5 ,pine &cedar bundles are only $3 each bc It dries fast and I'm still trying to sell the remaining 2023 firewood. I already have 120 facecords of this yrs hardwood split for fireplace wood this winter. I Still have 50 cords of logs and rounds to split. 26 of that is from tree removals my brother and I did or dead trees I logged on our property this year. 24 cord of Iogs I bought cheap from our logger that brings us sawlogs to buy and sells our pulpwood pine. I do at least a cord every day some days I can get 2 cords cut split stacked. Bulk campfirewood deliveries has basically disappeared this summer compared to the past 5 yrs. Free wood everywhere and people I've seen ads, people delivering facecords for $40- 60 which is crackhead pricing. Yes I've had customers tell me before that they've had methheads bring them a bunch of junk firewood. used to deliver 60 facecords of campfirewood this yr only did maybe 8 facecords. I give business cards out and free kindling bundle to new customers. Idk if u can get applewood or not but try getting into selling bbq chunks or apple, cherry, white oak, and hickory cooking wood. U can get 2 benjamin Franklins at least a facecord delivered to restaurants or bbq guys. I've got 10 facecords of apple. Its Easier to sell the hard to get wood bc its more in demand and way less sellers actually have sorted species of high quality Seasoned smoking/ bbq wood
Yeah I sold a full cord of pecan wood for $500 delivered (green) I sell my Cooking wood at a premium. It sells before I can season it. I don’t have time for chunks either. There just aren’t enough customers unless you travel.
Great points Matt , when you are putting the wood on the stacking conveyor , position your firewood box over the conveyor from the side . Tilt your bucket and then use a root rake to pull the firewood onto the conveyor . 👍🏻🇺🇸🪵
To add to your labor thoughts, do you split bigger pieces to people who buy face/full cords? That’s less handling. I know my customers prefer smaller pieces when it comes to bags or stacks at my stand. But some people want larger pieces for home heating.
It all comes down to efficiency and what works best for you. Unfortunately I have to drive 25mins one way to get to my yard from my house. So my bread and butter is selling face cords and full cords. We have a trailer in a park not too far from my yard and currently I have the monopoly on firewood there. Aside from that, I have a few heating customers and a few guys that smoke meat who keep me busy. Yeah bundles make more money but it also involves more effort…
No matter if you sell bulk, roadside, or bundles the name of the game in firewood is volume. If you aren’t moving volume you aren’t making money no matter which way you sell it. Firewood is labor intense and expensive either way all the machinery and supplies.
A thought...for loading wood in the conveyor... Lift the bucket so it comes a bit over the conveyor then you could probably pull out 90% of the wood with a rake into the conveyor.. probably also be faster !
Yeah I tried the rake thing and I was pulling too much off at once and it was too heavy for the conveyor to keep moving. But you are right I should bring the bucket up higher so I’m not bending over so much. Thanks for watching.
Your math makes sense but have you thought of making smaller bundles.. we bag 42 per facecord and sell at 8 delivered.. at 5 bucks a bundle you should be bagging .75 per bundle giving you 56 per facecord.. smaller quantity demands a higher price.... your product and consistency will pay for itself.. don't sell yourself short my friend
Yeah but that is still less than $660 for two cords. Also we both know you can split way more than 1 cord in 3 hours lol. The math is there and that’s how I see it.
I sell 1cf bags for $5 7. cf stack of pine for $20 7. cf stack of oak for $25 I haven’t found a bulk buyer for bags, but a couple customers a year will buy bulk and I’ll deliver them (local) for $5 a bag still. Sell a couple cord delivered, but I’m also new. Thanks for your thoughts and your numbers.
I could see why bundles don’t make sense for you. You can’t sell them at higher prices in your area. We just started in this business a couple of weeks ago, and are only selling bundles. Our bundles are $10 each. We haven’t sold them in bulk yet. We deliver only, with a minimum of three. We’re opposite of you, in that we chose not to sell firewood in bulk. I always felt like it wasn’t worth it from a time and profit standpoint. Aspen, Spruce, and Doug Fir averages $250-$350 per cord plus delivery and stacking fees. At my current rate with those three mixed, I’ll make $980 per cord. And that’s with my currently oversized 1.3 cu ft bundles. We live in a touristy area in the White Mountains of Arizona. People are always looking for firewood to burn. Also there’s plenty of campgrounds, vacation homes, and Air BnBs to service. Before we even started our business, we ended up buying 208 IBC totes that I got a really good deal on. I think if you had more totes, that will help your process to be more efficient. I split into my dump trailer, then stack into totes, and set out to season. When I need to make bundles, I simply use my tractor to place three totes into an L shape, place my bundle wrapper in the middle, and then back my truck up to the open side. I use more totes to place extras in, and then put them away in our storage container. My business model is selling recreational firewood only. No heating wood. That means that my wood is split very small compared to the heating wood that people sell. As I build inventory, my plan is to sell 1/4 cords as well. Those splits will be the same size as my bundle splits,…so in essence, you’d be buying more bundle wood at a lower price per. I already have my numbers worked out. I would still profit more with that, than other sellers would with hardwoods. That would be about the closest to selling bulk that I would do.
The flaw in your theory is that you assume every producers firewood is equal in quality and that everyone offers great customer service.. There is more than one way to compete, if you can't compete on price with the big fellas then why not compete on quality and better customer service. It won't take much to beat the big boys on quality and better customer service.
Absolutely. I'm been struggling this year because log prices went up a lot and was forced to raise my prices accordingly. I'm focusing on trying to be he best instead of racing to the bottom
Yes that surely will help but at the end of the day the price point is what matters the most to businesses. They don’t really care about the quality of the firewood. Ppl will still buy it if it’s convenient. Everyone knows they are paying more at a gas station but they are paying for convenience and not quality.
Well there is 128 cubic feet in 1 cord. So you should get minimum of 120 bundle per cord if you getting 100 bindles per cord your giving away money so we're is the 28 cubic feet going to
All good points but you must be making big bundles. .75 cubic feet should give you well over 130 bundles a cord. But it is time consuming. I personally like 1/4 and 1/3 cords. Goes faster!
My bundles are 1.6 cubic feet. I'm able to get some wood for almost free and that helps, especially in my area where people want bigger bundles. Every area is different I guess.
@@ChampionFirewoodManitoba 😱 .75 is the bigger here in mid Maryland. We generally get $7-$8 per bundle. That’s almost $1K per cord. The problem is a lot of roadside stands are going up. Everyone’s a wood supplier now, lol. Good luck :)
@@simplelifewithrobertpusate294 for sure. We have a lot of people around and its it's getting harder to sell. People will go where it's cheaper but if someone makes bigger bundles that helps.
I call it YT math...There is way to much of it that just doesn't add up at all in my book!🙄 I watched a video yesterday day on how to make $100 bucks in 20 minutes making bundles. Nothing was subtracted for buying the wood, labor,fuel,machine depreciation and maintenance,delivery time and fuel, and time in billing and collecting. Did he even make anything or minimum wage in 20 minutes should have been the title! I like everything about firewood but stop trying to sugar coat everything for clicks!👍
I think you need to go back and watch your video again where try to explain your math. You said "full cord" in one breath and "face cord" in the next. Which is it?
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You made some great points, Matt. This is a topic that I have been considering and I came to the same conclusion as you. There’s definitely more money and selling and smalls. But dealing with 70+ convenient store customers in my regular job on a weekly basis I could get a lot of business for bundles. But you’re never gonna be able to compete with the big outfits that are out there and believe me from experience they will come in and cut your throat because they can afford to! Good stuff keep doing what works for you, brother👊🏻
Agreed. 👍🏻
All valid points Matt. Everyone's operations are different and they should do whatever works best for them and for whatever reasons they may have. Excellent video Matt!
Thank you sir! Yes we all have different operations!
I'm right with you on this. I keep thinking I want to do bundles but by the time I do everything to make bundles I can split another face cord and in my area i can get $200 per face cord all day long. I like that conveyor! I need to find one for our yard. Keep up the good work!
Thank you!
Great points Matt!👍👍
Thanks! 👍
Good Job ....I think you're pretty much Bang on you thinking !!😊
Thanks you!
We just sell the bundles. I think that it is the way to go, at least for me. We used to sell cord wood, but I make quite a bit more per cord making bundles than I would selling it in bulk. We've been selling bundles for 13yrs now and yes, it is a little more labor intensive, but the profit margin is higher.
Do what’s best for you! I plan on selling 50+ cords this year and there’s no way I can sell all that in bundles.
It’s funny you made this video,, I’ve been doing some studying on getting into bundles again. I stopped b/c I hate wrapping them and didn’t want to buy an expensive wrapper. Currently working on a bagging option since I have recently gotten an opportunity to sale at some retail locations. Great points you made, and great information!! 👊🏻
Haha great timing. The bagging station is the way to go for productivity in my opinion. I think it’s easier but I’m not so sure it’s any faster then a wrapper. Bundles are cheaper to make and bundles will last longer than bags in the sun.
@@FirewoodontheHill gotcha. The bagging process def seems easier. Appreciate the info man!
@@TwinCityFirewood no problem
Hi Matt, I totally agree with you on bundles. I haven't made on in a year. Still sell everything I can produce. Splitting is enjoyable, wrapping isn't.
Yes, splitting is definitely more fun than wrapping!
I agree with you, people preach that bundles are worth more. Yes they are worth more but they also take a lot more time to make. When putting wood in your conveyor try holding your bucket at waist height, no more bending over. That’s how I stack all my wood out of my firewood bucket, lot less fatiguing.
Yes you are right I should lift the bucket up so I’m not bending over so much. Thanks for watching.
@@FirewoodontheHill
Also, put the bucket over the top of the conveyor so when you pull the wood from the bucket it can drop straight down into the conveyor.
This method would save a lot of time. A hook tool may help to pull the wood out or may not help. Taller and wider sides on the conveyor (where are the wood drops) may or may not help.
Putting more wood on the elevator will make the motor draw more electricity which may be a problem if the supply is not good. A long cord may have excessive voltage drop. The motor may not be large enough.
@@jakebredthauer5100 yeah I tried pulling some out of the bucket with a rake and it was too much for the conveyor and it would jam.
@@FirewoodontheHill
"stall" (quit)
@@jakebredthauer5100 yes lol
Mini bulk in a driveway stand or remote location is by far my favorite way to sell. No customer communications, they come to you, you just keep the racks filled. I’m bias though, I’m not a fan of bundling. I do it some but I certainly do not want to expand farther into bundles on the sole reason that I do not enjoy it.
I’m the same as use. I love the roadside stand and hate bundling lol.
I sell in bundles, face cord and full cords. If someone is expecting to get rich selling firewood, tgey neex to rethink selling firewood. Most of us do it for a littke extra play money!! Stay Hydrated and Have a Safe Day
Haha yes that ls true too.
Fantastic video. Thank you for the info.
Question - How big are the bundles? If the bundles are 1 cubic square foot, shouldn't you make 42 bundles for a facecord (1/3 of a cord)?
Thank you and I could be a little off. I was using stacked IBC totes to judge the quantities. I also want really measuring my bundles to a t either.
I do mainly bulk, 1-2 cords at a time, sometimes up to six. I'd love to slowly change into mainly bundles in the next year. My reason is because it's difficult to compete in selling cords in my area. We are in a forest and although we sell out every year, when log prices went up over $400 per truck we we forced to raise prices and calls have been slow. It's a race to the bottom trying to compete with those who sell low quality wood at a lower price
Yeah that’s tough. Maybe you should sell truck loads? If you are already selling bulk wood you won’t even get close to the overall amount you make selling bundles. The numbers just aren’t there unless you are shipping across state lines.
@@FirewoodontheHill selling smaller quantities for higher margins is the way to go for sure. Going to have to target cities more
Bundles have been selling good where I'm at in Wisconsin. I also have premium dry firewood tho. Wood I split last year. Only put the nicest straight pieces in the bundles. I have 3 bundle racks. Oak for $5 ,pine &cedar bundles are only $3 each bc It dries fast and I'm still trying to sell the remaining 2023 firewood. I already have 120 facecords of this yrs hardwood split for fireplace wood this winter. I Still have 50 cords of logs and rounds to split. 26 of that is from tree removals my brother and I did or dead trees I logged on our property this year. 24 cord of Iogs I bought cheap from our logger that brings us sawlogs to buy and sells our pulpwood pine. I do at least a cord every day some days I can get 2 cords cut split stacked. Bulk campfirewood deliveries has basically disappeared this summer compared to the past 5 yrs. Free wood everywhere and people I've seen ads, people delivering facecords for $40- 60 which is crackhead pricing. Yes I've had customers tell me before that they've had methheads bring them a bunch of junk firewood. used to deliver 60 facecords of campfirewood this yr only did maybe 8 facecords. I give business cards out and free kindling bundle to new customers. Idk if u can get applewood or not but try getting into selling bbq chunks or apple, cherry, white oak, and hickory cooking wood. U can get 2 benjamin Franklins at least a facecord delivered to restaurants or bbq guys. I've got 10 facecords of apple. Its Easier to sell the hard to get wood bc its more in demand and way less sellers actually have sorted species of high quality Seasoned smoking/ bbq wood
Yeah I sold a full cord of pecan wood for $500 delivered (green) I sell my Cooking wood at a premium. It sells before I can season it. I don’t have time for chunks either. There just aren’t enough customers unless you travel.
Great points Matt , when you are putting the wood on the stacking conveyor , position your firewood box over the conveyor from the side . Tilt your bucket and then use a root rake to pull the firewood onto the conveyor . 👍🏻🇺🇸🪵
Great idea but I tried it and I was pulling too much wood out at a time and it was stopping the conveyor haha.
@@FirewoodontheHill 10-4 . Y’all going to Bunyan this year ?
To add to your labor thoughts, do you split bigger pieces to people who buy face/full cords? That’s less handling.
I know my customers prefer smaller pieces when it comes to bags or stacks at my stand. But some people want larger pieces for home heating.
Yes I do split bigger pieces when I’m not splitting for bundles.
It all comes down to efficiency and what works best for you. Unfortunately I have to drive 25mins one way to get to my yard from my house. So my bread and butter is selling face cords and full cords. We have a trailer in a park not too far from my yard and currently I have the monopoly on firewood there. Aside from that, I have a few heating customers and a few guys that smoke meat who keep me busy. Yeah bundles make more money but it also involves more effort…
Yes we all have different obstacles and efficiencies.
No matter if you sell bulk, roadside, or bundles the name of the game in firewood is volume. If you aren’t moving volume you aren’t making money no matter which way you sell it. Firewood is labor intense and expensive either way all the machinery and supplies.
100% agree with you.
A thought...for loading wood in the conveyor...
Lift the bucket so it comes a bit over the conveyor then you could probably pull out 90% of the wood with a rake into the conveyor.. probably also be faster !
Yeah I tried the rake thing and I was pulling too much off at once and it was too heavy for the conveyor to keep moving. But you are right I should bring the bucket up higher so I’m not bending over so much. Thanks for watching.
I've been selling some bundles, face cords, and cords without trying to expand. I can only devote a minimal amount of time for such low wages.
Yeah bundles aren’t for you then.
Your math makes sense but have you thought of making smaller bundles.. we bag 42 per facecord and sell at 8 delivered.. at 5 bucks a bundle you should be bagging .75 per bundle giving you 56 per facecord.. smaller quantity demands a higher price.... your product and consistency will pay for itself.. don't sell yourself short my friend
Yes I make 1 cubic foot bundles. I can bring them down some but then my bundle would be the same as the big outfits. That takes my selling point away.
@FirewoodontheHill there is 42 cubic feet in 1 facecord.. you should be getting 126 per full cord is 630 bucks per cord my friend
Yeah but that is still less than $660 for two cords. Also we both know you can split way more than 1 cord in 3 hours lol. The math is there and that’s how I see it.
@FirewoodontheHill 2 cords would be 1260 my friend.. 1 cord is 630..
I sell 1cf bags for $5
7. cf stack of pine for $20
7. cf stack of oak for $25
I haven’t found a bulk buyer for bags, but a couple customers a year will buy bulk and I’ll deliver them (local) for $5 a bag still.
Sell a couple cord delivered, but I’m also new.
Thanks for your thoughts and your numbers.
👍
I could see why bundles don’t make sense for you. You can’t sell them at higher prices in your area. We just started in this business a couple of weeks ago, and are only selling bundles. Our bundles are $10 each. We haven’t sold them in bulk yet. We deliver only, with a minimum of three.
We’re opposite of you, in that we chose not to sell firewood in bulk. I always felt like it wasn’t worth it from a time and profit standpoint. Aspen, Spruce, and Doug Fir averages $250-$350 per cord plus delivery and stacking fees. At my current rate with those three mixed, I’ll make $980 per cord. And that’s with my currently oversized 1.3 cu ft bundles. We live in a touristy area in the White Mountains of Arizona. People are always looking for firewood to burn. Also there’s plenty of campgrounds, vacation homes, and Air BnBs to service. Before we even started our business, we ended up buying 208 IBC totes that I got a really good deal on. I think if you had more totes, that will help your process to be more efficient. I split into my dump trailer, then stack into totes, and set out to season. When I need to make bundles, I simply use my tractor to place three totes into an L shape, place my bundle wrapper in the middle, and then back my truck up to the open side. I use more totes to place extras in, and then put them away in our storage container.
My business model is selling recreational firewood only. No heating wood. That means that my wood is split very small compared to the heating wood that people sell. As I build inventory, my plan is to sell 1/4 cords as well. Those splits will be the same size as my bundle splits,…so in essence, you’d be buying more bundle wood at a lower price per. I already have my numbers worked out. I would still profit more with that, than other sellers would with hardwoods. That would be about the closest to selling bulk that I would do.
That’s awesome $10 a bundle is crazy! I would definitely do bundles then. That’s double what I’m getting here lol.
@@FirewoodontheHill I’m anxious to see how it does over time.
@@FirewoodontheHill it’s like they all say,…it’s all about the local market.
You should be getting way more bundles per cord. You should be producing 165 bundles per cord minimum.
1 cubic ft bundles adds up!
The flaw in your theory is that you assume every producers firewood is equal in quality and that everyone offers great customer service.. There is more than one way to compete, if you can't compete on price with the big fellas then why not compete on quality and better customer service. It won't take much to beat the big boys on quality and better customer service.
Absolutely. I'm been struggling this year because log prices went up a lot and was forced to raise my prices accordingly. I'm focusing on trying to be he best instead of racing to the bottom
Yes that surely will help but at the end of the day the price point is what matters the most to businesses. They don’t really care about the quality of the firewood. Ppl will still buy it if it’s convenient. Everyone knows they are paying more at a gas station but they are paying for convenience and not quality.
Well there is 128 cubic feet in 1 cord. So you should get minimum of 120 bundle per cord if you getting 100 bindles per cord your giving away money so we're is the 28 cubic feet going to
1 cubic foot bundles add up. Even 20 more bundles will be $60 less than just splitting the wood and not bundling.
Plus I was being generous by only splitting one cord in the 3 hrs. I usually split a full cord In 1.5hrs by myself.
All good points but you must be making big bundles. .75 cubic feet should give you well over 130 bundles a cord. But it is time consuming. I personally like 1/4 and 1/3 cords. Goes faster!
My bundles are 1.6 cubic feet. I'm able to get some wood for almost free and that helps, especially in my area where people want bigger bundles. Every area is different I guess.
@@ChampionFirewoodManitoba 😱 .75 is the bigger here in mid Maryland. We generally get $7-$8 per bundle. That’s almost $1K per cord. The problem is a lot of roadside stands are going up. Everyone’s a wood supplier now, lol. Good luck :)
@@simplelifewithrobertpusate294 for sure. We have a lot of people around and its it's getting harder to sell. People will go where it's cheaper but if someone makes bigger bundles that helps.
I’m making 1 cubic ft bundles.
I call it YT math...There is way to much of it that just doesn't add up at all in my book!🙄
I watched a video yesterday day on how to make $100 bucks in 20 minutes making bundles. Nothing was subtracted for buying the wood, labor,fuel,machine depreciation and maintenance,delivery time and fuel, and time in billing and collecting. Did he even make anything or minimum wage in 20 minutes should have been the title! I like everything about firewood but stop trying to sugar coat everything for clicks!👍
Yeah unfortunately it’s seems more channels want to sugar coat it than talk about the reality of firewood.
I think you need to go back and watch your video again where try to explain your math. You said "full cord" in one breath and "face cord" in the next. Which is it?
Full cord