It might would, what if Saruman also find the way to put his souls into it like Sauron did. Also we know nothing about the time he spend in the east, I think it was more than a thousand years there and if we consider also the fail of the blue wizard and maybe the cults of sorcery they started (presumably) and if Saruman was corrupted in the beginning maybe that was part of the plot of the continuation of LoTR, the New Shadow (or something like that) I got my own canon story about what happened to the blue wizard and how they both won and failed their tasks and Saruman definitely has a part in it. Cheers!
@@scottmccrea1873 Yes but both are not important since they have no power in Arda anymore and might be lower than the least of existance in wraithworld
It's a pretty universal fact in Tolkien's legendarium that any character that exhibits undue pride, particularly pride in their creations, will ultimately be the cause of much suffering and their own undoing. Morgoth, Sauron, Fëanor, Saruman, Denethor, they're all examples of that.
Hi Dave, just stumbled on one of your videos - and, after having viewed a few of them, I gotta say you have way more depth to your analysis and insight into the lore than most of the Tolkien related channels I've come across. Keep up the good work!
As big as the Valars and Maiar of middle earth are, they still had feelings and individual personalities just like the mortals. It reminds me that there was also a Maiar of Ulmo who got tempted by melkor, but eventually repented before ending up like Sauron
I had always thought that he had made some sort of magic ring that would have given him some level of control over enough Orcs to begin his breeding of Uruk-hai.
Very interesting, as always.... I love hearing that there is more to discover in the "Unfinished Tales" about Saruman....and why Tolkien's is so intriguing, mythical....continues to live on in our own lives.
A very enjoyable video 🖖🏼 The moment where Saruman wants to repent to Gandalf makes for a very strong scene. I think he always knew that Gandalf was stronger than him in many regards yet tried to suppress this view, though he basically admitted it to himself during this attempted reconciliation. I also think that Saruman was not just angry that Gandalf never told him about Bilbo's ring, but also ashamed because Gandalf was objectively right not to trust him, he must have felt very lonely. It's hard to disclose when you fear mocking and shame, or when false pride hinders you to admit a mistake, as Saruman did. I actually feel pity for him after all
Your the first person I've heard to bring up Sarumans ring. I've allways held to the thought that in Tolkien's The New Shadow the new Dark Lord was going to be Saruman who returned and took up his ring again after hiding it in Orthanc or the Shire , like Sauron did with his ring when he went to Numenor. I believe he was hiding his ring after the fall of Sauron and waiting for Gandalf and the last of the Noldor to leave middle Earth for the Blessed Realm before returning .
The fact that Saruman was in possession of some of Isildur's stuff is soooo interesting! It actually send a small shiver of dread down my spine when I just heard this. I used to think of Saruman as one of these morally grey characters who balance on the fine line between good and evil, until circumstance makes them fall on either side (this is a fantasy series, so obviously it's on the evil side lol). Maybe after this video, I need to rethink that :-D
Since Saruman and Gandalf are both Maiar, and thus immortal beings, I'm imagining Gandalf arriving in the Undying Lands, and Saruman is already there. Gandalf: "Aha, so here you are." Saruman: "Yes, well, I suppose things didn't go exactly to plan."
saruman's spirit left his body when he died, and it looked to the west, and was blown away and dispersed by a strong wind coming from the west - his soul looked to Valinor but was rejected and left to wander the world, immaterial and powerless
It is an interesting thought. Perhaps Saruman had hoped to do as they had done before: to hone and strengthen his power through a ring; to be able to overcome the shackles of his aged mortal body and fully unlock his Maiar power. Had he had more time, both before his treachery was discovered and Sauron began more forcefully scouring Middle Earth for his own ring, he might have been able to succeed where Sauron ultimately failed. As for if he was always a bad egg, I do think he has always had an ambitious streak, and a great pride that he felt needed stroking. But that does not an evil person make, only a misguided and foolish one. But it is not a very long road to walk from prideful to arrogant to lusting for power and control.
Hmmm. Assuming he did head into Middle Earth desiring power and dominion, there's kind of an interesting parallel between him, and Galadriel. But while Galadriel overcame her desire to rule, owing to (as you pointed out quite eloquently in your video on her) her growing in wisdom during her time there... Saruman... did not.
I’m new to learning about Tolkein and middle earth, and this is amazing! Something I wish he’d written more about. Another possibility for the ring Saruman is wearing could be one of the ones once held by the dwarfs or the Nazgul and given to Saruman by Sauron or stolen from him. I could be way off with that idea since I’m still learning all that’s available. Originally, I’d only seen the movies.
I'm really glad you're enjoying learning about Tolkien! That's a really good thought about Saruman having maybe taken one of the rings of power. I don't think it could be a Nazgul ring, as all 9 are in Barad-dur, but it could potentially be a dwarven ring. Gandalf tells us that four were destroyed by dragon fire, but it's very possible that he's wrong, and Saruman took one in secret. Although Saruman does call himself 'ring-maker' which I suppose implies he forged his ring himself.
There is the possibility it could have been one of the dwarven rings. However, it would have been foolish for Saruman to have actually put it on, unlike the elven rings , those were forged by Sauron and even without the One ring, Sauron may have retained some power over those rings. I think the reason the dwarves were not influenced as greatly by their rings was that the dwarves have a different origin than men or elves. Perhaps this is why the dwarven rings only seemed to bring an ill fate to the dwarves, but did not allow Sauron to control the dwarven ring bearers. No, Saruman worn a ring and claimed to have made a ring, Gandalf would not have mentioned it to the White Council had it been a mundane ring. It clearly wasn't one of the three or the nine and it is highly unlikely to have been one of the seven. Even in his hubris, Saruman was unlikely to have made the mistake of wearing or even bearing a ring that Sauron controlled. Saruman would not have willingly submitted to Sauron so easily. Hubris once again.
Each of the Ainur represent a part of the mind of Illuvatar that is distinct from all the other parts. Melkor represented his unquestionable knowledge of superiority and desire to rule all with none above or equal to him. Sauron represents delight in torment and wickedness. Saruman represents jealousy, envy, and secret hatred. I agree that he is a very unlikeable character. He does so many truly awful and evil things even when he knows he will get nothing out of it. The whole scouring of the Shire thing he did seemingly on a whim, just to hurt the Hobbits. And even after all he did, he still seemed very underwhelming. So prideful he failed at pretty much everything in fact. I love the part in the book comparing Sarumans Orthanc as a toy built by a child who wants to pretend it's the real Barad-Dur, when Orthanc is literally less than 1% the height and nowhere near the strength.
Saruman the White was a man who believed only in one thing. *'ABSOLUTE POWER'* - and those who are chosen by it. Saruman was most probably not rotten and never corrupt. He just...... had no faith in anything but power itself. Being chosen as the most powerful Wizard did nothing to make him think that living beings are equal. He knew was supposed to serve the forces of order, as his powers came from the gods. His pride was satisfied for some time, but ultimately he despaired over it. *_" Everyone has his station in life and they can never reach above it. "_* So when he encountered Sauron's shade ( in the Hobbit Movie ) he was utterly shocked that he could not even do a single thing against such a meager, fleeting and unstable existence. From that moment onwards his confidence was compromised wether or not he was serving the right side of history, or of order for that matter. He might not have understood who or what Sauron ultimately was but he was shocked to see there is a being so mighty it defies even death with the powers *'it has created itself'.* Galadriel might have kicked that Shade back then to Mordor, but the mental damage to Saruman was already done. He promised the fairest of Elven Ladys he will go after him to deal with him. And allthough I doubt he was fully broken yet and was still determined to go full on Sorcerer on him when he finds him again, but he went with two plans in his head. If he wins - that's that. Evil destroyed - world safed, all fine and good. If he loses, he is just inferior by destiny and will bend the knee to a rightfully more powerful leader. We all know what happened in the end. Even if he was somehow able to beat the Shade black & blue, you cannot undo this Shade as long as the ring does not enjoy a certain hot lava bath. And he accepted the outcome. Saruman submitted, believing it was just his fate, probably also the fate of the whole world - since no one could match up to Sauron. And maybe he also feared aging & death since even though he was empowered by the Gods, he was still Human and wanted to overcome death. Hopefully with much more consciousness & clarity remaining as just another Ringwraith. But he would not let _"the clock"_ get him without putting up a fight either. Saruman was chosen by power. Further showing him how meaningless personal achievements are. How worthless a good & kind soul and heart is. Nothing matters but power. Even a mere Hobbit can live for hundreds of years if just *being near* an object of vast might! There is no choice - only going with the flow. There is no freedom, only obedience to the laws of higher beings. A transcending being has appeared before him. He could neither defeat nor rob its secrets from it. So he will serve it. That is neither good nor evil, no selfless or egoistical. It is just the true, unhypocritical nature of the world. Saruman was many things but one thing certainly never, someone who defies his own cold logic after watching the world as someone a little more chosen as others. And he would not trying to act the humility play, when he held no humility in himself. Even dissing other Wizards whenever he pleased in their apparently very unimpressive roles in middle-earth. If one is not powerful, one is just not worth much. This harsh logic he imposed over others, but also above himself.
🔔TU: Nice video. You're the first commenter that I've ever seen address the basic issue that I've always wondered about, namely: What happened to the ring(s) of Saruman (and the Witch-King) when they were killed? (I did read that the Nazgul may or may not have been wearing their rings during the time of LOTR. We can't be sure because Tolkien gave mixed messages about that.) However I don't think that Saruman would've wanted his ring to interconnect with Sauron's ring in the least. He would want it hidden from Sauron to prevent reprisals and not be subject to Sauron's ring's influences in general (including its own effective destruction if Sauron's ring actually was managed to be destroyed). I believe I can make a reasonable postulation about what Saruman's ring could do. One thing: Give some measure of magical added strength to his power of speech, specifically his verbal ability to influence others. Remember Gandalf warned his companions to beware of Saruman's speech.
About Elendil's crown: The Key to Orthank was given to Saruman by the Steward of Gondor. Before that the Tower had been locked for over a thousand years. It is perfectly plausible that the crown or a facsimile had been stored and locked in there long before Saruman's arrival. The unfinished tales are the unfinished tales for a reason.
Saruman did make a ring of power, and its effects are plain for all of us to see in the exchange between Gandalf and Saruman at Orthanc. "'Radagast the Brown!' laughed Saruman, AND HE NO LONGER CONCEALED HIS SCORN." The mask is off, he no longer feels the the need to conceal his scorn, and this is the effect of having poured his own pride and arrogance into his ring, just as Sauron poured cruelty his ring, and Celebrimbor the desire for restoration into his three.
I’ve been rereading LOTR for decades, and I’m sure I read about his ring, but it really got my attention when I was listening to it as an audiobook. Interesting how it changes one’s comprehension. At any rate… Didn’t Saruman first go into the East when he arrived in Middle Earth? Maybe that’s where his true fall from the mission began. Maybe he carried some negative elements of character from Valinor - but he could still have chosen a good and wise path. He was probably the most overtly powerful of the White Council, and if he had allowed himself to be guided by Gandalf’s superior wisdom, he could have contributed much in the War of the Ring. Gandalf still gives him a second chance at Orthanc, guided by pity of course, and the outside chance that Saruman could be rehabilitated.
You have no idea how much I enjoyed your videos. They are so AMAZING. I did not read the books but love the movies and your content, wao, what a school. This Chanel is like my mini series, and I love it. Thank you so much for this amazing job. It is incredible. I just searched to understand about the rings, and you came up, and after that, all this knowledge has been an incredible ride ❤ BRAVOOOO, Perfection 🥰
I agree with @Rune Bivin that there is a close connection with the crafting skills of Morgoth, Sauron, Fëanor, Saruman and their ultimate downfall though not necessarily with their creations being part of their downfall. Even in English today if a man is described as being "crafty" it can be interpreted in two different ways..... firstly that he is good at crafts, or secondly that he is cunning and deceitful. The first four that you listed above, were all originally greatly skilled at craft (and I think trained by the god of crafts?) and all were originally very brilliant and skilled but gradually became crafty in the deceitful sense of the word. In the case of Feanor it was certainly pride over his creations (the Silmarils) that caused his (and his families') downfall however I'm not so sure about the others? From watching previous videos in this marvellous channel Melkor became obsessed with destruction (though I'm not sure what caused him to turn) and Sauron wanted order and structure. In the case of Saruman, I think his name gives a suggestion of not only his character but the character of all of the characters skilled at craft in the series. According to wiki the Saru part of Saruman's name comes from the Anglo-Saxon searu meaning both skilled and cunning. Similarly his original name in Valinar Curumo means Skilled\Cunning, and unsurprisingly his Sindar name Curunir means Man of Skill but can also be translated as Man of Cunning Devices. I think that this yin and yang of a crafter being both incredibly skillful and powerful and yet prone to corruption because of that great skill suggests that none of these characters were bad from the beginning, but rather that they could have gone either way, but were born more susceptible to being turned than any others. I think it should be noted that Gandalf (if memory serves me correctly) was also gifted at crafts and was an apprentice of the Aule? Either way, to me Gandalf is essentially the yang version of Saruman and vice versa. This also would suggest that Gandalf would have been more prone to being turned that others and his reaction to Frodo offering him the One Ring suggests that Gandalf himself knew it and it must've have taken incredible resolve and inner strength for him to have not succumb to the power of the ring. Certainly in Saruman's case I don't think he was bad from the very beginning. Even Gandalf says that Saruman "was great once, of a noble kind that we should not dare raise our hands against" which suggests that he was great and good at some stage. Similarly the fact that his cloak was originally white suggests that he was originally whole and good and that his breaking apart of the white light into the rainbow is a reflection of him becoming broken into pieces of his former self. So though Saruman's jealousy of Gandalf goes way back to the very beginning, I don't think that alone was enough to have turned Saruman, though it was probably a frayed thread that eventually got pulled when he looked into the stone at Orthanc. When Saruman first came to Orthanc it had been sitting empty for 1,000 years so could there have been some negative forces festering in Orthanc unbeknownst to the men of Gondor and Rohan that could have impacted on Saruman? According to Tolkein Gateway "Shortly after arriving [in Middle-Earth and before he ever went to Orthanc], Saruman travelled into the East of Middle-earth, as did the two Blue Wizards. After one and a half millennia he returned to the West, just as Sauron's power was growing again in Dol Guldur. " I think in another video on this channel about the blue wizards they went off to the East and possibly got corrupted. Either way they never came back. So what happened to Saruman there? Could he have been corrupted whilst away in the East? When he came back (again according to Tolkein Gateway) "Saurman spent years in Minas Tirith examining its archives." What did he find out in the East that made him start looking in the archives in Minas Tirith (presumably for information about the One Ring since Gandalf goes there to find out about the One Ring too)? Would this explain why Saruman makes his own ring? For me whatever happened during this period was what was the beginning of the turning point of Saruman, and that the turning point in his case wasn't a sudden thing but rather a gradual process, which probably then got accelerated when he looked into the stone of Orthanc.
Im still blown away by their shared apprenticeship under Aule from the first time i heard you mention it... That was a big *click* for me within the greater vision of the storyline.
Damn, you're so good at this I have something else I wanna comment on before the end of the video. I can't believe how much he parallels Morgoth and Sauron and their respective falls from grace, the crown, his ring, his secret hatred for gandalf born of envy. The deceitful way with which he entraps and drives toward his own goal, to the point (as you said) until he is all alone, he destroys his own land around the tower of Isengard (or at least sets it in motion) left with naught but the company of orcs and thralls in the end having not even usefulness to Sauron anymore.
The movies were great, but the seriously messed up Sauromon's character big time Saruman in the movie: Booring typical flat basic Sauron is my Maste because we can't win Subordinate villian Saruman in the books: So strong willed and minded that he most certainly was not going to be told that 'no, not you may not, you can not- no, I mean no one other than Sauron can use the ring' use the ring against him and he's going to raise an army of orks, make better Uruki, and defeat Sauron with his own the worlds's one ring. Saruon Movies: Oh no. We can't possibly defeat him, He must become my master. Sarumon Books. I ain't be no servant, Ima be king of the world, and you, mister, are going to loose. Oh your powerful? Ha, I will make better elf orks and use your ring to be even more powerful. And if, and that's a pretty fine big if, if you manage to be only equal, or by some mirical from the great lordy himself, be just slightly more powerful at maximumly best case senario to the likes of you, I will still nail your ass. In fact, I will plow your stupid spoiled aprenticed-by-the-second-god-himself face into the dirt wiht or without your dang precious little ring. Movies. Yes master Books I'm an old man too, and I'm going to kick your butt. It's not about how old you are, it's about what you do with your time, and how you use it to better yourself, how you become smarter, wiser, stronger, more powerful. ALSO SARUMon in the movies and books Movies after the war. Dead. Wormtounge killed him high on a tower when it wouldn't have even really helped him at that point After the war in the books. Time to invent the FRICKING FIRST INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION and turn the shire into an INDUSTRIAL FACTORY and waste land by INVENTING A COAL PLAN that probably smelts steal during the MEDEIVLI AGESs in FANTASY TIMES, because he learns form his mistakes and because he lost. Sarumon doesn't need the renisance, forget all that preperation and years of innovation and cultural change that lead to the industrial revolution. no Sarumon IS the renisance, and he is the cultural change that is coming to a neighborhood near you weather you like it or not ;and your going to like it if you know what's good for you. TAKE THAT IRON MAN. You didn't invent exosuites, you made the first best one bud. Also, worm toungue only kills him when he is surrounded and tries to turn traitor to get on the good people's side, not understanding that that is not redeeming yourself but being traitorous and backstabby- literally.
Although I agree he is despicable, I cant avoid loving Saruman and his story arch. The way I see it, he is Galadriel who failed the test. Despite being a Maiar, there is something very human about him and somehow i think we can relate to him in moments of life where we weren't as good as we should have been (well, in some degree, at least) and suffered the consequences of that
This raises the idea that had Saruman progressed much further in his knowledge of Ringmaking he would have discovered how Sauron had poured his own innate power into the One Ring. Had he done so, he may have had the wherewithal to become a new Dark Lord even after Gandalf broke his staff.
I love the Saruman character! If for nothing else than he's the villain we get to meet, hear from, gain insight from. In the LotR Sauron is mentioned as a far off, yet menacing and powerful, evil from afar though very little is seen of him. Even though I do think this pays dividends in service of increasing the terror induced by the character Sauron (the terror left to your imagination is far worse than anything described) we barely hear him speak. Saruman is the character we see corrupted. We see his faults, his frailties, his envy, his wrath and, in the end, his downfall. Makes me wish more was written about him. Saruman is quite the underrated villain!
What a great question about what happened to his ring. My guess would be that he would have kept it and it would have been on his 'body' when he died. Though, it's certainly possible that, as it's power began to fade he destroyed or cast it away in bitterness. Or, he may have been in fear of wielders of the 3 Rings. Those rings were fading, but they had not fade-d yet. Saruman may have been susceptible to having his thoughts probed by those still wielding the 3.
I thought that the time Tolkien referred to when he wrote about Saruman being scared by the Nazgul was when one went to Orthanc after his defeat by the Ents.
Gandalf once commented to Bilbo, who was using the One Ring rather carelessly: "There are many magic rings in this world, Master Baggins, and none of them should be taken lightly." I wonder what other rings (assuming he wasn't referring to the other rings of power), Gandalf was referring to?
Lesser Rings created before the Greater Ones. They were basically a beta testing version for the future Rings Of Power we know. That's why Gandalf isn't immediately alerted by Bilbo's ring because he thought it was a lesser one (due to the fact that the ring had no precious gemstones like the other greater)
The yielding to Gandalf and beg for his pardon wasn't in thr PJ movies and I'm surprised, maybe they missed it... they could have somehow put it in and still have him end up how they portrayed him like and tha KS to Christopher Lee we got a great adaptation of Saruman/Curunir!
My favorite character was Gandalf. That man smoked pipe-weed like a young bob marley. Helped save middle earth & had a great buzz going while he did. What a legend
4 years on and I'm still watching new videos, to me at least. As to my favourite character in Toliken's legendarium, my quick answer is Samwise Gamgee- Gardener. As in so much of medieval nomenclature from the 14th century backwards, one's surname also described one's role in whatever community one lived. Lucy Cooper would be Lucy the wife or daughter of the barrel maker. Semaj Fletcher meant Semaj the arrow maker, John Baker, well, you get the idea. I have an ancestor from the 14th century named simply Chieney whose son of the same name included Hunter as his surname. I know pitifully little about them except that Chieney survived the Black Death as he was born in 1340 and lived long enough to procreate. Generally, these surnames are given by the community as a recognition of the excellence of one's work. Ned Needling, a very distant ancestor, was a renowned needleworker who made garments for royalty (the only reason he's described). I digress. The fact that Samwise earned his surname meant he was extraordinary in many ways, not only as a gardener. As we know, he was Frodo's companion, protector, guardian and hero in so many ways, never taking credit for himself, instead giving it to his master, Frodo. He was courageous, steadfast, simple and I don't mean stupid, He kept his word, as we hear him say on several occasions, "I made a promise Mr. Frodo, and mean to keep it." To me, that's truly heroic. His berth on an elven ship in the Grey Havens sailing West was well earned. As for Saruman, his end was worthy. He thought he could kick Grima around endlessly without consequence but when Frodo says, paraphrasing,, do not listen to his voice. He has no power over anyone except through speech. At that, Frima finally saw what Saruman was and realized his own folly in having been duped for so long, he snapped and did what anyone would have done in his place, killed the man/Istar/Maia/Wizard, whatever, Saruman. It was a just end for a coward.
About our characters´ preferences, while you tell it´s easy for you to pick your less favourite one but hard to tell the very best, I must say for me it´s exactly the opposite lol, because as at the top I have undisputedly Aragorn son of Arathorn, called Elessar, the Elfstone, Chieftain of the Dúnedain, The Heir of Isildur Elendil's son of Gondor, Strider, Thorongil, Estel; at the bottom I´d had no idea who to put tbh...
I turned on CC and it came out "sorrow man" but maybe he was going for "sour man" as a younger person I thought saur like dino-saur. Maybe it is all 3 or maybe none and he had some other root word meaning in mind. I think it is nice that Bill the pony is honored but find it curious that no dogs are present in his alternate world. They have wolves and wargs that are "domesticated" but no friendly canines. Dog is one of our oldest English words. Canine is a Latin word and hound is Germanic but dog is so old that the root is unknown.
I suppose there's Grip, Fang, and Wolf; the dogs of Farmer Maggot. Although there certainly aren't as many as in our world. There is also Huan in the Silmarillion, but he's more like a giant talking dog, so not quite the same.
@@tolkienuntangled thank you. They are in the movies as well. I had completely forgotten and just focused on all the horses. His world building is so dense.
@@tolkienuntangled To one of them he replied that Bilbo, after Bilbo Baggins in The Hobbit, seemed a good animal name, and indeed, his own brother had given the hobbit’s full name to his dog, a young animal of “variable behaviour.” The dog was called Bilbo when good and Baggins when bad-he knew the implication of each. This story is from the Bark. I like the idea of having 2 names for your dog.
An excellent video I’m late on commenting again…. Anyway if anyone is listening…. Remember when Aragorn and the guys are chasing the orcs across Rohan he says: The stars are faint; and I am weary as I have seldom been before, weary as no Ranger should be with a clear trail to follow. There is some will that lends speed to our foes and sets an unseen barrier before us: a weariness that is in the heart more than in the limb.’ I think this is the power of Sarumans ring and somehow the rings enhance your will or spirit so that you can dominate others and bend the fabric of reality itself if you are powerful enough.
I wish there was more information about this, I was re-reading LoTR and paid attention that Gandalf made a point to mention the ring on his finger when he met Saruman. But it was never explained. Was it a lesser magic ring that Saruman forged, or was he just delusional and was playing the part of owning a ring of power? I mean, we never see him use it, but how long has Saruman studied the lore of the ring-craft? Surely he knew enough to make a ring of power, at least a lesser ring, but did he actually use it? We don't know and this is bothering me more than it should.
I want to know what the ring 💍 did, wish we knew, I mean did the one ring have any power over it, it was made by saurman so it should be seperate I've also wondered what the fell voices where on the mountain above kazad dum
Thank you very much - these are great! A question... do you think Saruman knew that Gandalf was the bearer of Narya? If not it would be rather embarrassing for him given that ring-lore was supposed to be his speciality. But if he *did* then also quite annoying to feel that every single member of the White Council had been a Ring-bearer except him!
If someone put a gun to my head and told me to pick my favorite character, first I’d say “you could have just asked me, no gun was really necessary.” But then I would say: 1) Feanor 2) Turin Turambar I can definitely associate with the characters that have dark inner turmoils much easier
Yes, I agree that it's highly likely that Saruman forged his own ring, though probably a minor ring, not a true 'ring of power.' As Aragorn said of Saruman, "Once he was as great as his fame made him. His knowledge was deep, his thought was subtle, and his hands marvelously skilled." and as Gandalf said, "The lore of the Elven-rings, great and small, is his province. He has long studied it, seeking the lost secrets of their making." And as we know, Saruman was originally one of the powerful Maiar of Aulë the Smith just as Sauron had once been. Add to this, his long wanderings, seeking knowledge in many corners of Middle Earth (the libraries of Minus Tirith not the least of these). Add as well, that he had the use of a Palantir, apparently uninhibited for quite a while. Remember what Gandalf said of the Palatir; "Even now my heart desires to test my will upon it, to see if I could not wrench it from him and turn it where I would - to look across the wide seas of water and of time to Tirion the Fair, and perceive the unimaginable hand and mind of Fëanor at their work, while both the White Tree and the Golden were in flower!’ He sighed and fell silent." This suggests (at least until Sauron's return) that a powerful wizard like Saruman could perhaps have used the Pilantir to peer across time and distance to perceive the thoughts of the ring makers themselves.
Saruman is one of my favorite characters specifically because of how much I dislike him, which doesn't sound like it makes very much sense. He's one of my favorite characters in the same way that Arthas/The Lich King is one of my favorite characters in Warcraft. Definitely a bad guy, definitely want to kill him, but still one of my favorites. There's something so delightfully tragic about a character who tries to "come back" from the darkness, but it's too late to. A gut-wrenching realization for him, but a fate he deserved. Very strange to have such seemingly conflicting feelings, but that's exactly why Saruman is in my top 5 favorite characters, good or bad. Masterfully crafted and written by the professor.
So - to use the parlance of our times* - ButtHurt is what drove Saruman. Butthurt that Manwe, Galadriel, Cirdan all favored Gandalf over him. I think ambition is also a part of the pathological stew here. Making himself Lord of the World would certainly satisfy both of his demons. *props if you get the reference.
at about one minute in, you mention "the scoured hobbits of the shire" this makes it sound as if Saruman is the scourer rather than the dirt that has to be scoured away
i am not entirely sure but is curumo the only maya that turned evil after the creation of the universe? (after the whole disharmonic singing from malcor at the beginning when forming the universe)
Saruman was a powerful Istari as he could influence people. Gandalf attained a similar level of power with his elven ring. I wonder if Saruman's power was related to his own ring? Corumo being a powerful Maiar who got given an offer too good to refuse and had his ego massaged by being the White Wizard makes sense. And it would be natural for him to communicate with Sauron as they both were Maiar of Aüle and presumably knew each other from a previous life? Saruman would be almost like a double agent, trying to emulate Sauron from day one while paying lip service to helping the free peoples.
You know, because of students like Cúrumo and Fëanor, I feel like Aulë gets kind of a bad wrap; it's not his fault that they fell so far. Just because the Vala taught and/or provided guidance to those who considered him a mentor does NOT mean he or his teachings can be held at fault for his students' transgressions. Also, with regard to Saruman, his most apt comparison is, of course, Gandalf, who himself was the pupil of the Vala Nienna back in Aman, a being so wise and compassionate that her tears and songs fertilized the Two Trees themselves. Likewise, Fëanor's most analogous counterpart is Galadriel, but the latter, instead of being sired by a overly-doting guardian like Finwë, had the advantage of being taught wisdom and restraint by Melian the Maia, whose own mentor was the Vala Yavanna, the other half of the duo of angelic arborists.
All the Maiars of the Valanor smith become evil, first Souron, then Souraman. The Smith dude was the one who created the Dwarf’s that Iluvitar adopted. I guess his vanity passed on to his Miars
Another great video. Funnily enough, your Facebook post on the Tolkien Society group on this subject got me reading those sections of Unfinished Tales again, and more importantly got me onto these videos. What do you make of the concept of Saruman of Many Colours? Metaphor for how he wanted the powers of all 5 wizards (and more) or do you think he was aiming for the technicolour dreamcoat vibe?
Wow, sorry for taking so long to reply to your comment! I do think it's a metaphor to an extent, as like you say many colours implies wanting the power of all the wizards. But I also think Saruman of Many Colours represents a dissatisfaction with just being The White Wizard. His dialogue about white light being broken and the white page being overwritten suggests to me that Saruman views the purity and delicate nature of 'white' as a weakness that serves as nothing more than a starting point. However Gandalf's comeback that broken light and an overwritten page are "no longer white" suggests that what Saruman sees as weakness in the colour, is exactly what Gandalf perceives as its strength. I do kind of have a hard time imagining Saruman walking around Orthanc in technicolour tie-dye though 😂
Tolkien Untangled I love that idea of the prism and that white isn’t blank but in fact stronger. Brilliant stuff. Personally I think you don’t want him in rainbow tones as you said he’s your least favourite character and you’ve claimed the rainbow look... 😉
Maybe he started out with good intentions but became embittered by the continued slights (real or imagined) to his pride. Consider, Saruman was the first of the Istari to volunteer to go to Arda. What do the Valar do? They saddle him with Radagast! It's like the elder sibling being ordered by their parents to take the nerdy younger one with them when the elder wants to hang out with his chums. Now look at Gandalf from Saruman's perspective: Olorin didn't even want to go! He had to be forced to go. Yet here this slacker enjoys the favor of Manwe; the generosity of Cirdan; and the high regard of the Lady of the Golden Wood! That has GOT to rankle! So our resentful white wizard with a chip on his shoulder uses the Orthanc stone. He would have been easy prey for Sauron the Deceiver.
Saruman corrupt his own mind.. Sauron probably added to this but I don't think he was a "rotten egg" from day 1 with the fact that he was Saruman the White, Saruman the wise - you don't get those status' for no reason. Gandalf had to defeat a balrog to become Gandalf the white, it begs me the question of - what did Saruman do to achieve this level? I once read that Gandalf told all the others to run so he could defeat the balrog himself and claim all the experience points, he gets new gear, new horse, ups quite a few levels etc and I thought that was quite amusing.. untrue but amusing XD
Would it be possible that Saruman’s ring was what gave his voice the power of persuasion? If this is the case I imagine that him being stripped of his position among the Istari by Gandalf removed any power his ring had, but this again is just my theory.
The Istari, along with Sauron and the Balrog, are all Maia....lesser angels, so to speak. But, Gandalf noted that Saraman the White had become Saraman of the Many Colors. Saraman was so arrogant, he truly thought he could overthrow Sauron at some point and become the Ruler (tyrant) of all of Middle Earth. He did biogenetics by breeding his Uric Kai. (Yes, I know I spelled it wrong, lol) But, Saraman had been searching for the One Ring for ages....for himself. I doubt he ever had intention of turning it over to Sauron, even if he could have found it.
So Saruman was jealous of Gandalf because the bods guy wanted him to go to Middle Earth? I would need to look into that a little more. I haven’t read the Unfinished Tales yet. That will have to be my next task. Oh, wow! Another long one! Should be interesting.
one of many defective copies of the one ring saruman had tried to make. he decided he needed the genuine article after all at some point.. i still prefer saruman back when he was known as curumo the skilled, just as everyone else prefers sauron when he was known as mairon the admirable.
Let's put it this way, i have more dislike for Wormtongue than i have of Saruman. Saruman is a pretty "cool" character with lots of power, just used to the wrong end. My favorite character is Gandalf for sure, and Saruman would actually end up somewhere in the middle. He's a bad guy and he does horrible things but he's quite an interesting character. Far more interesting than Sauron. Out of all the bad guys, Saruman would rank among the top in that group. Not because of the bad things he does, but because he's quite badass if you ask me. Sauron is merely a shadow at this point in time, a has been. A wimpy crying baby that needs a change of diapers.
Saruman has always seemed out of place to me. To be a little more specific, his rationale and motives never made sense to me. He's the head of his order, that has to mean something. Where are his redeeming qualities?
Favourite characters in a top 5 since i cant order them Morgoth Helm hammerhand Witch king if angmar Sauron - especially in the first and second age Fingolfin, probably my favourite besides morgoth Honorable mentions includr dain ironfoot and gandalf
It’s funny the part of Saruman’s statement I zoned in on was his statement of “many colors” and it’s actually another piece of understanding just how clever Ol’ J really was. Backstory, mine to be precise. I am new to this fandom and I come…let’s say not exactly from Narnia but further North…yes. I like putting it that way for just the other day I was listening to these videos just to see how deep did J bake our “old story” into his massive cake and I’m STILL feeling somewhat shocked, impressed, and a little betrayed…but enough! Imagination and rhyme time!…. Imagine a room there’s J on his pipe C.S. Is reading the script and me I just got there enjoying a good vape….C says to J “Are you sure THIS is the way? You could make it clearer I think it could be better that way” Me? I’m quite I’m not even supposed to be here I’m just “little J” J says C: “oh don’t worry let it be, they’ll all enjoy it just trust me give it a rest” Me?: bros…I mean uh “Good Sirs” I hope you don’t mind I don’t mean to take up your time but I must compliment you both on your “delicious cakes” there’s laughter in the room three lovers of the pen, “The Breath”, The Mind and a good Mood so it’s all cool. Between us they get what I really mean. But then I take a breath look at them both and then I speak: “C’s cake is very sweet you taste The Sugar right away and it’s neat! Since I was a child I loved the whole thing it’s sublime! As for J since you want it this way I’ve only now even touched your cake! Your words I heard when I was young gave me much pause….but now I think it’s ok. I think it’s better your way! for it takes wisdom to taste the sugar in your cake. It too is sublime. My assumption was false I can taste The Truth it’s there you never forgot to add it I now know that’s true. And it’s good, very good, if this moment was real I would thank you…… A flash of Lightning on a clear day begins to give “The Truth” away…we three nod say some last precious words a few laughs but I go for I must heed The Time…..staying could be dangerous and lead to my very own True Death. I blink find myself back here and I’m smiling because me? I have no real fear, I can enjoy and explore this massive world in Peace. You’ve got a talent I’m sure you know my friend I enjoyed your video, very much until it’s end thank you very much for I’ve been dying to write out that odd scene! It is finished So let there be light! 🫰🏿 Please don’t worry I don’t bite…but I’m not tame and shine very bright….hopefully thanks to Ol’ J and Ol’ C I think we all know what I mean! ……wait I’m just realizing 👀 ohhhhh nnnoooooo Well I really must go! I think I left some brownies in “The Northern Garden” wait what? No I must go!! Look at the time!!! Have a swell night…or day idk times funny that way! Byeee!! 👋🏿 😂😅🤣 ⛈😶🌫️🔥🫠 🎶 🫰🏿
All I heard was maybe, maybe, maybe. Well, then, maybe Saruman was gay, you know, a man of many colors, and what has many colors?... a rainbow; meaning Saruman belong to tha alphabet community. Just saying.
You know, one would consider that the Valar were partially to blame for Suraman's fall. I mean, honestly, what do you think happens when someone who works hard to learn his craft and acquire wisdom is unceremoniously given a task of great import along with another who seems timid, irresolute and a bit of slacker and the latter is shown a great deal of favoritism. Even the father of the prodigal son was generous to BOTH sons.
My least favorite character is one from the movies. I absolutely HATED that one stupid elf and the love triangle between her, Legolas and Fili. I just thought that it was really dumb and that it just doesn't fit with Tolkien's epic. It also takes Bilbo out of the spotlight, and the whole book is about his progression and growth in his great journey. The movie shouldn't be a carbon copy, but they shouldn't add major characters just to fit the modern version of a fantasy, which seems to require romance.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I wonder if Saruman’s ring was an abandoned storyline arc that JRRT originally had bigger plans for.
Perhaps! Prof Tolkien tells us the Maiar are immortal so Saruman like Saurin should still exist.
It might would, what if Saruman also find the way to put his souls into it like Sauron did.
Also we know nothing about the time he spend in the east, I think it was more than a thousand years there and if we consider also the fail of the blue wizard and maybe the cults of sorcery they started (presumably) and if Saruman was corrupted in the beginning maybe that was part of the plot of the continuation of LoTR, the New Shadow (or something like that)
I got my own canon story about what happened to the blue wizard and how they both won and failed their tasks and Saruman definitely has a part in it.
Cheers!
@@scottmccrea1873 Yes but both are not important since they have no power in Arda anymore and might be lower than the least of existance in wraithworld
It's a pretty universal fact in Tolkien's legendarium that any character that exhibits undue pride, particularly pride in their creations, will ultimately be the cause of much suffering and their own undoing. Morgoth, Sauron, Fëanor, Saruman, Denethor, they're all examples of that.
Young Christopher Lee as Curumo suspiciously looks like the Dark Lord Nicolas Cage
I had never heard the unfinished tales tidbit about Saruman going to beg Gandalf’s pardon at Orthanc as he was escaping, that’s a crazy piece of news!
I’ve read this story over and over and I can honestly say your retelling still fills me with wonder
Hi Dave, just stumbled on one of your videos - and, after having viewed a few of them, I gotta say you have way more depth to your analysis and insight into the lore than most of the Tolkien related channels I've come across. Keep up the good work!
Thank you! I'm really glad you enjoy them 🙂
Agreed! Most of them are just reading silmarillion chapters. Keep it up!!!
As big as the Valars and Maiar of middle earth are, they still had feelings and individual personalities just like the mortals. It reminds me that there was also a Maiar of Ulmo who got tempted by melkor, but eventually repented before ending up like Sauron
I had always thought that he had made some sort of magic ring that would have given him some level of control over enough Orcs to begin his breeding of Uruk-hai.
Very interesting, as always.... I love hearing that there is more to discover in the "Unfinished Tales" about Saruman....and why Tolkien's is so intriguing, mythical....continues to live on in our own lives.
A very enjoyable video 🖖🏼 The moment where Saruman wants to repent to Gandalf makes for a very strong scene. I think he always knew that Gandalf was stronger than him in many regards yet tried to suppress this view, though he basically admitted it to himself during this attempted reconciliation. I also think that Saruman was not just angry that Gandalf never told him about Bilbo's ring, but also ashamed because Gandalf was objectively right not to trust him, he must have felt very lonely. It's hard to disclose when you fear mocking and shame, or when false pride hinders you to admit a mistake, as Saruman did.
I actually feel pity for him after all
Me too I feel like a redemption story would have been as inspiring as Gandalf’s resurrection.
Your the first person I've heard to bring up Sarumans ring. I've allways held to the thought that in Tolkien's The New Shadow the new Dark Lord was going to be Saruman who returned and took up his ring again after hiding it in Orthanc or the Shire , like Sauron did with his ring when he went to Numenor. I believe he was hiding his ring after the fall of Sauron and waiting for Gandalf and the last of the Noldor to leave middle Earth for the Blessed Realm before returning .
This is an excellent catch for a video idea. This is the type of unique content you excel at!!!
The fact that Saruman was in possession of some of Isildur's stuff is soooo interesting! It actually send a small shiver of dread down my spine when I just heard this.
I used to think of Saruman as one of these morally grey characters who balance on the fine line between good and evil, until circumstance makes them fall on either side (this is a fantasy series, so obviously it's on the evil side lol). Maybe after this video, I need to rethink that :-D
Well, Dave, 3 years have passed, and your video still stands out among all the others. Much love.
Since Saruman and Gandalf are both Maiar, and thus immortal beings, I'm imagining Gandalf arriving in the Undying Lands, and Saruman is already there.
Gandalf: "Aha, so here you are."
Saruman: "Yes, well, I suppose things didn't go exactly to plan."
saruman's spirit left his body when he died, and it looked to the west, and was blown away and dispersed by a strong wind coming from the west - his soul looked to Valinor but was rejected and left to wander the world, immaterial and powerless
It is an interesting thought. Perhaps Saruman had hoped to do as they had done before: to hone and strengthen his power through a ring; to be able to overcome the shackles of his aged mortal body and fully unlock his Maiar power. Had he had more time, both before his treachery was discovered and Sauron began more forcefully scouring Middle Earth for his own ring, he might have been able to succeed where Sauron ultimately failed.
As for if he was always a bad egg, I do think he has always had an ambitious streak, and a great pride that he felt needed stroking. But that does not an evil person make, only a misguided and foolish one. But it is not a very long road to walk from prideful to arrogant to lusting for power and control.
Saruman took up jewelry making in his spare time. He sells the rings at street fairs.
Saruman had made two rings. He gave one to Wormtongue, who used it to bewitch Theoden.
I recall Gandalf saying that Saruman's magic had been at work in theoden's hall so that would make sense.
Bad to the bone! Saruman did not have pure instincts from the beginning. Love your analyses of possibilities.
Hmmm. Assuming he did head into Middle Earth desiring power and dominion, there's kind of an interesting parallel between him, and Galadriel. But while Galadriel overcame her desire to rule, owing to (as you pointed out quite eloquently in your video on her) her growing in wisdom during her time there... Saruman... did not.
I’m new to learning about Tolkein and middle earth, and this is amazing! Something I wish he’d written more about. Another possibility for the ring Saruman is wearing could be one of the ones once held by the dwarfs or the Nazgul and given to Saruman by Sauron or stolen from him. I could be way off with that idea since I’m still learning all that’s available. Originally, I’d only seen the movies.
I'm really glad you're enjoying learning about Tolkien! That's a really good thought about Saruman having maybe taken one of the rings of power. I don't think it could be a Nazgul ring, as all 9 are in Barad-dur, but it could potentially be a dwarven ring. Gandalf tells us that four were destroyed by dragon fire, but it's very possible that he's wrong, and Saruman took one in secret.
Although Saruman does call himself 'ring-maker' which I suppose implies he forged his ring himself.
There is the possibility it could have been one of the dwarven rings. However, it would have been foolish for Saruman to have actually put it on, unlike the elven rings , those were forged by Sauron and even without the One ring, Sauron may have retained some power over those rings. I think the reason the dwarves were not influenced as greatly by their rings was that the dwarves have a different origin than men or elves. Perhaps this is why the dwarven rings only seemed to bring an ill fate to the dwarves, but did not allow Sauron to control the dwarven ring bearers. No, Saruman worn a ring and claimed to have made a ring, Gandalf would not have mentioned it to the White Council had it been a mundane ring. It clearly wasn't one of the three or the nine and it is highly unlikely to have been one of the seven. Even in his hubris, Saruman was unlikely to have made the mistake of wearing or even bearing a ring that Sauron controlled. Saruman would not have willingly submitted to Sauron so easily. Hubris once again.
nah, i believe the nazgul still have the nine rings given to men, if i remember right
Each of the Ainur represent a part of the mind of Illuvatar that is distinct from all the other parts. Melkor represented his unquestionable knowledge of superiority and desire to rule all with none above or equal to him. Sauron represents delight in torment and wickedness. Saruman represents jealousy, envy, and secret hatred. I agree that he is a very unlikeable character. He does so many truly awful and evil things even when he knows he will get nothing out of it. The whole scouring of the Shire thing he did seemingly on a whim, just to hurt the Hobbits.
And even after all he did, he still seemed very underwhelming. So prideful he failed at pretty much everything in fact. I love the part in the book comparing Sarumans Orthanc as a toy built by a child who wants to pretend it's the real Barad-Dur, when Orthanc is literally less than 1% the height and nowhere near the strength.
Interesting, Saruman is perhaps one of my favorite characters for his fall from grace.
Saruman the White was a man who believed only in one thing. *'ABSOLUTE POWER'* - and those who are chosen by it. Saruman was most probably not rotten and never corrupt. He just...... had no faith in anything but power itself. Being chosen as the most powerful Wizard did nothing to make him think that living beings are equal. He knew was supposed to serve the forces of order, as his powers came from the gods. His pride was satisfied for some time, but ultimately he despaired over it.
*_" Everyone has his station in life and they can never reach above it. "_* So when he encountered Sauron's shade ( in the Hobbit Movie ) he was utterly shocked that he could not even do a single thing against such a meager, fleeting and unstable existence.
From that moment onwards his confidence was compromised wether or not he was serving the right side of history, or of order for that matter.
He might not have understood who or what Sauron ultimately was but he was shocked to see there is a being so mighty it defies even death with the powers *'it has created itself'.*
Galadriel might have kicked that Shade back then to Mordor, but the mental damage to Saruman was already done.
He promised the fairest of Elven Ladys he will go after him to deal with him.
And allthough I doubt he was fully broken yet and was still determined to go full on Sorcerer on him when he finds him again, but he went with two plans in his head.
If he wins - that's that. Evil destroyed - world safed, all fine and good.
If he loses, he is just inferior by destiny and will bend the knee to a rightfully more powerful leader.
We all know what happened in the end. Even if he was somehow able to beat the Shade black & blue, you cannot undo this Shade as long as the ring does not enjoy a certain hot lava bath.
And he accepted the outcome.
Saruman submitted, believing it was just his fate, probably also the fate of the whole world - since no one could match up to Sauron.
And maybe he also feared aging & death since even though he was empowered by the Gods, he was still Human and wanted to overcome death.
Hopefully with much more consciousness & clarity remaining as just another Ringwraith.
But he would not let _"the clock"_ get him without putting up a fight either.
Saruman was chosen by power.
Further showing him how meaningless personal achievements are.
How worthless a good & kind soul and heart is. Nothing matters but power.
Even a mere Hobbit can live for hundreds of years if just *being near* an object of vast might!
There is no choice - only going with the flow.
There is no freedom, only obedience to the laws of higher beings.
A transcending being has appeared before him.
He could neither defeat nor rob its secrets from it. So he will serve it.
That is neither good nor evil, no selfless or egoistical.
It is just the true, unhypocritical nature of the world.
Saruman was many things but one thing certainly never, someone who defies his own cold logic after watching the world as someone a little more chosen as others.
And he would not trying to act the humility play, when he held no humility in himself.
Even dissing other Wizards whenever he pleased in their apparently very unimpressive roles in middle-earth.
If one is not powerful, one is just not worth much.
This harsh logic he imposed over others, but also above himself.
🔔TU: Nice video. You're the first commenter that I've ever seen address the basic issue that I've always wondered about, namely: What happened to the ring(s) of Saruman (and the Witch-King) when they were killed? (I did read that the Nazgul may or may not have been wearing their rings during the time of LOTR. We can't be sure because Tolkien gave mixed messages about that.) However I don't think that Saruman would've wanted his ring to interconnect with Sauron's ring in the least. He would want it hidden from Sauron to prevent reprisals and not be subject to Sauron's ring's influences in general (including its own effective destruction if Sauron's ring actually was managed to be destroyed). I believe I can make a reasonable postulation about what Saruman's ring could do. One thing: Give some measure of magical added strength to his power of speech, specifically his verbal ability to influence others. Remember Gandalf warned his companions to beware of Saruman's speech.
Just subscribed after listening to your work! Keep it up! Got his books as Xmas 🎁 thought i knew him but your content is 😎
About Elendil's crown: The Key to Orthank was given to Saruman by the Steward of Gondor. Before that the Tower had been locked for over a thousand years. It is perfectly plausible that the crown or a facsimile had been stored and locked in there long before Saruman's arrival. The unfinished tales are the unfinished tales for a reason.
Nice vid. Have always wondered about Saruman’s ring!
Saruman did make a ring of power, and its effects are plain for all of us to see in the exchange between Gandalf and Saruman at Orthanc.
"'Radagast the Brown!' laughed Saruman, AND HE NO LONGER CONCEALED HIS SCORN." The mask is off, he no longer feels the the need to conceal his scorn, and this is the effect of having poured his own pride and arrogance into his ring, just as Sauron poured cruelty his ring, and Celebrimbor the desire for restoration into his three.
I’ve been rereading LOTR for decades, and I’m sure I read about his ring, but it really got my attention when I was listening to it as an audiobook. Interesting how it changes one’s comprehension. At any rate…
Didn’t Saruman first go into the East when he arrived in Middle Earth? Maybe that’s where his true fall from the mission began. Maybe he carried some negative elements of character from Valinor - but he could still have chosen a good and wise path. He was probably the most overtly powerful of the White Council, and if he had allowed himself to be guided by Gandalf’s superior wisdom, he could have contributed much in the War of the Ring. Gandalf still gives him a second chance at Orthanc, guided by pity of course, and the outside chance that Saruman could be rehabilitated.
You have no idea how much I enjoyed your videos. They are so AMAZING. I did not read the books but love the movies and your content, wao, what a school. This Chanel is like my mini series, and I love it. Thank you so much for this amazing job. It is incredible. I just searched to understand about the rings, and you came up, and after that, all this knowledge has been an incredible ride ❤ BRAVOOOO, Perfection 🥰
Wow, thank you very much! I’m really glad you enjoy the videos!
I agree with @Rune Bivin that there is a close connection with the crafting skills of Morgoth, Sauron, Fëanor, Saruman and their ultimate downfall though not necessarily with their creations being part of their downfall.
Even in English today if a man is described as being "crafty" it can be interpreted in two different ways..... firstly that he is good at crafts, or secondly that he is cunning and deceitful. The first four that you listed above, were all originally greatly skilled at craft (and I think trained by the god of crafts?) and all were originally very brilliant and skilled but gradually became crafty in the deceitful sense of the word.
In the case of Feanor it was certainly pride over his creations (the Silmarils) that caused his (and his families') downfall however I'm not so sure about the others? From watching previous videos in this marvellous channel Melkor became obsessed with destruction (though I'm not sure what caused him to turn) and Sauron wanted order and structure.
In the case of Saruman, I think his name gives a suggestion of not only his character but the character of all of the characters skilled at craft in the series.
According to wiki the Saru part of Saruman's name comes from the Anglo-Saxon searu meaning both skilled and cunning. Similarly his original name in Valinar Curumo means Skilled\Cunning, and unsurprisingly his Sindar name Curunir means Man of Skill but can also be translated as Man of Cunning Devices.
I think that this yin and yang of a crafter being both incredibly skillful and powerful and yet prone to corruption because of that great skill suggests that none of these characters were bad from the beginning, but rather that they could have gone either way, but were born more susceptible to being turned than any others.
I think it should be noted that Gandalf (if memory serves me correctly) was also gifted at crafts and was an apprentice of the Aule? Either way, to me Gandalf is essentially the yang version of Saruman and vice versa.
This also would suggest that Gandalf would have been more prone to being turned that others and his reaction to Frodo offering him the One Ring suggests that Gandalf himself knew it and it must've have taken incredible resolve and inner strength for him to have not succumb to the power of the ring.
Certainly in Saruman's case I don't think he was bad from the very beginning. Even Gandalf says that Saruman "was great once, of a noble kind that we should not dare raise our hands against" which suggests that he was great and good at some stage. Similarly the fact that his cloak was originally white suggests that he was originally whole and good and that his breaking apart of the white light into the rainbow is a reflection of him becoming broken into pieces of his former self.
So though Saruman's jealousy of Gandalf goes way back to the very beginning, I don't think that alone was enough to have turned Saruman, though it was probably a frayed thread that eventually got pulled when he looked into the stone at Orthanc.
When Saruman first came to Orthanc it had been sitting empty for 1,000 years so could there have been some negative forces festering in Orthanc unbeknownst to the men of Gondor and Rohan that could have impacted on Saruman?
According to Tolkein Gateway "Shortly after arriving [in Middle-Earth and before he ever went to Orthanc], Saruman travelled into the East of Middle-earth, as did the two Blue Wizards. After one and a half millennia he returned to the West, just as Sauron's power was growing again in Dol Guldur. "
I think in another video on this channel about the blue wizards they went off to the East and possibly got corrupted. Either way they never came back. So what happened to Saruman there? Could he have been corrupted whilst away in the East?
When he came back (again according to Tolkein Gateway) "Saurman spent years in Minas Tirith examining its archives." What did he find out in the East that made him start looking in the archives in Minas Tirith (presumably for information about the One Ring since Gandalf goes there to find out about the One Ring too)? Would this explain why Saruman makes his own ring?
For me whatever happened during this period was what was the beginning of the turning point of Saruman, and that the turning point in his case wasn't a sudden thing but rather a gradual process, which probably then got accelerated when he looked into the stone of Orthanc.
These are great ideas. Thanks for sharing them!
@@tolkienuntangled Thank you so much
Im still blown away by their shared apprenticeship under Aule from the first time i heard you mention it... That was a big *click* for me within the greater vision of the storyline.
Damn, you're so good at this I have something else I wanna comment on before the end of the video. I can't believe how much he parallels Morgoth and Sauron and their respective falls from grace, the crown, his ring, his secret hatred for gandalf born of envy. The deceitful way with which he entraps and drives toward his own goal, to the point (as you said) until he is all alone, he destroys his own land around the tower of Isengard (or at least sets it in motion) left with naught but the company of orcs and thralls in the end having not even usefulness to Sauron anymore.
The movies were great, but the seriously messed up Sauromon's character big time
Saruman in the movie:
Booring typical flat basic Sauron is my Maste because we can't win Subordinate villian
Saruman in the books:
So strong willed and minded that he most certainly was not going to be told that 'no, not you may not, you can not- no, I mean no one other than Sauron can use the ring' use the ring against him and he's going to raise an army of orks, make better Uruki, and defeat Sauron with his own the worlds's one ring.
Saruon Movies:
Oh no. We can't possibly defeat him, He must become my master.
Sarumon Books.
I ain't be no servant, Ima be king of the world, and you, mister, are going to loose. Oh your powerful? Ha, I will make better elf orks and use your ring to be even more powerful.
And if, and that's a pretty fine big if, if you manage to be only equal, or by some mirical from the great lordy himself, be just slightly more powerful at maximumly best case senario to the likes of you, I will still nail your ass.
In fact, I will plow your stupid spoiled aprenticed-by-the-second-god-himself face into the dirt wiht or without your dang precious little ring.
Movies.
Yes master
Books
I'm an old man too, and I'm going to kick your butt. It's not about how old you are, it's about what you do with your time, and how you use it to better yourself, how you become smarter, wiser, stronger, more powerful.
ALSO SARUMon in the movies and books
Movies
after the war.
Dead.
Wormtounge killed him high on a tower when it wouldn't have even really helped him at that point
After the war
in the books.
Time to invent the FRICKING FIRST INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION and turn the shire into an INDUSTRIAL FACTORY and waste land by INVENTING A COAL PLAN that probably smelts steal during the MEDEIVLI AGESs in FANTASY TIMES, because he learns form his mistakes and because he lost.
Sarumon doesn't need the renisance, forget all that preperation and years of innovation and cultural change that lead to the industrial revolution.
no
Sarumon IS the renisance, and he is the cultural change that is coming to a neighborhood near you weather you like it or not ;and your going to like it if you know what's good for you.
TAKE THAT IRON MAN. You didn't invent exosuites, you made the first best one bud.
Also, worm toungue only kills him when he is surrounded and tries to turn traitor to get on the good people's side, not understanding that that is not redeeming yourself but being traitorous and backstabby- literally.
I'm sorry, did you forget Ted Sandyman? The main villain of the entire series! I haaaate that guy.
Although I agree he is despicable, I cant avoid loving Saruman and his story arch. The way I see it, he is Galadriel who failed the test. Despite being a Maiar, there is something very human about him and somehow i think we can relate to him in moments of life where we weren't as good as we should have been (well, in some degree, at least) and suffered the consequences of that
This raises the idea that had Saruman progressed much further in his knowledge of Ringmaking he would have discovered how Sauron had poured his own innate power into the One Ring. Had he done so, he may have had the wherewithal to become a new Dark Lord even after Gandalf broke his staff.
I love the Saruman character! If for nothing else than he's the villain we get to meet, hear from, gain insight from. In the LotR Sauron is mentioned as a far off, yet menacing and powerful, evil from afar though very little is seen of him. Even though I do think this pays dividends in service of increasing the terror induced by the character Sauron (the terror left to your imagination is far worse than anything described) we barely hear him speak. Saruman is the character we see corrupted. We see his faults, his frailties, his envy, his wrath and, in the end, his downfall. Makes me wish more was written about him. Saruman is quite the underrated villain!
The answer to the best character in the Legendarium? Sam. And that's all I have to say on the matter
What a great question about what happened to his ring. My guess would be that he would have kept it and it would have been on his 'body' when he died. Though, it's certainly possible that, as it's power began to fade he destroyed or cast it away in bitterness. Or, he may have been in fear of wielders of the 3 Rings. Those rings were fading, but they had not fade-d yet. Saruman may have been susceptible to having his thoughts probed by those still wielding the 3.
Narrator: "-I'd struggle.
...
I mean, Cirdan." 😂😂😂 Yes!
I thought that the time Tolkien referred to when he wrote about Saruman being scared by the Nazgul was when one went to Orthanc after his defeat by the Ents.
Gandalf once commented to Bilbo, who was using the One Ring rather carelessly: "There are many magic rings in this world, Master Baggins, and none of them should be taken lightly."
I wonder what other rings (assuming he wasn't referring to the other rings of power), Gandalf was referring to?
Lesser Rings created before the Greater Ones. They were basically a beta testing version for the future Rings Of Power we know.
That's why Gandalf isn't immediately alerted by Bilbo's ring because he thought it was a lesser one (due to the fact that the ring had no precious gemstones like the other greater)
@@sadman1450 I wonder how many lesser rings are just bumming around with straight up invisibility powers, no strings attached.
The yielding to Gandalf and beg for his pardon wasn't in thr PJ movies and I'm surprised, maybe they missed it... they could have somehow put it in and still have him end up how they portrayed him like and tha KS to Christopher Lee we got a great adaptation of Saruman/Curunir!
My favorite character was Gandalf. That man smoked pipe-weed like a young bob marley. Helped save middle earth & had a great buzz going while he did. What a legend
4 years on and I'm still watching new videos, to me at least. As to my favourite character in Toliken's legendarium, my quick answer is Samwise Gamgee- Gardener. As in so much of medieval nomenclature from the 14th century backwards, one's surname also described one's role in whatever community one lived. Lucy Cooper would be Lucy the wife or daughter of the barrel maker. Semaj Fletcher meant Semaj the arrow maker, John Baker, well, you get the idea. I have an ancestor from the 14th century named simply Chieney whose son of the same name included Hunter as his surname. I know pitifully little about them except that Chieney survived the Black Death as he was born in 1340 and lived long enough to procreate. Generally, these surnames are given by the community as a recognition of the excellence of one's work. Ned Needling, a very distant ancestor, was a renowned needleworker who made garments for royalty (the only reason he's described).
I digress. The fact that Samwise earned his surname meant he was extraordinary in many ways, not only as a gardener. As we know, he was Frodo's companion, protector, guardian and hero in so many ways, never taking credit for himself, instead giving it to his master, Frodo. He was courageous, steadfast, simple and I don't mean stupid, He kept his word, as we hear him say on several occasions, "I made a promise Mr. Frodo, and mean to keep it." To me, that's truly heroic. His berth on an elven ship in the Grey Havens sailing West was well earned. As for Saruman, his end was worthy. He thought he could kick Grima around endlessly without consequence but when Frodo says, paraphrasing,, do not listen to his voice. He has no power over anyone except through speech. At that, Frima finally saw what Saruman was and realized his own folly in having been duped for so long, he snapped and did what anyone would have done in his place, killed the man/Istar/Maia/Wizard, whatever, Saruman. It was a just end for a coward.
About our characters´ preferences, while you tell it´s easy for you to pick your less favourite one but hard to tell the very best, I must say for me it´s exactly the opposite lol, because as at the top I have undisputedly Aragorn son of Arathorn, called Elessar, the Elfstone, Chieftain of the Dúnedain, The Heir of Isildur Elendil's son of Gondor, Strider, Thorongil, Estel; at the bottom I´d had no idea who to put tbh...
Saruman of many colors
01:05 And the ents
I turned on CC and it came out "sorrow man" but maybe he was going for "sour man" as a younger person I thought saur like dino-saur. Maybe it is all 3 or maybe none and he had some other root word meaning in mind.
I think it is nice that Bill the pony is honored but find it curious that no dogs are present in his alternate world. They have wolves and wargs that are "domesticated" but no friendly canines. Dog is one of our oldest English words. Canine is a Latin word and hound is Germanic but dog is so old that the root is unknown.
I suppose there's Grip, Fang, and Wolf; the dogs of Farmer Maggot. Although there certainly aren't as many as in our world. There is also Huan in the Silmarillion, but he's more like a giant talking dog, so not quite the same.
@@tolkienuntangled thank you. They are in the movies as well. I had completely forgotten and just focused on all the horses. His world building is so dense.
@@tolkienuntangled To one of them he replied that Bilbo, after Bilbo Baggins in The Hobbit, seemed a good animal name, and indeed, his own brother had given the hobbit’s full name to his dog, a young animal of “variable behaviour.”
The dog was called Bilbo when good and Baggins when bad-he knew the implication of each.
This story is from the Bark. I like the idea of having 2 names for your dog.
A great character makes you feel something, Saruman did make me hate him. Great character.
An excellent video I’m late on commenting again…. Anyway if anyone is listening…. Remember when Aragorn and the guys are chasing the orcs across Rohan he says:
The stars are faint; and I am weary as I have seldom been before, weary as no Ranger should be with a clear trail to follow. There is some will that lends speed to our foes and sets an unseen barrier before us: a weariness that is in the heart more than in the limb.’
I think this is the power of Sarumans ring and somehow the rings enhance your will or spirit so that you can dominate others and bend the fabric of reality itself if you are powerful enough.
I wish there was more information about this, I was re-reading LoTR and paid attention that Gandalf made a point to mention the ring on his finger when he met Saruman.
But it was never explained.
Was it a lesser magic ring that Saruman forged, or was he just delusional and was playing the part of owning a ring of power? I mean, we never see him use it, but how long has Saruman studied the lore of the ring-craft? Surely he knew enough to make a ring of power, at least a lesser ring, but did he actually use it? We don't know and this is bothering me more than it should.
Another commitmenter theorised that he made two rings, one for Wormtongue to influence Theoden.
I want to know what the ring 💍 did, wish we knew, I mean did the one ring have any power over it, it was made by saurman so it should be seperate
I've also wondered what the fell voices where on the mountain above kazad dum
Thank you very much - these are great! A question... do you think Saruman knew that Gandalf was the bearer of Narya? If not it would be rather embarrassing for him given that ring-lore was supposed to be his speciality. But if he *did* then also quite annoying to feel that every single member of the White Council had been a Ring-bearer except him!
If someone put a gun to my head and told me to pick my favorite character, first I’d say “you could have just asked me, no gun was really necessary.”
But then I would say:
1) Feanor
2) Turin Turambar
I can definitely associate with the characters that have dark inner turmoils much easier
Yes, I agree that it's highly likely that Saruman forged his own ring, though probably a minor ring, not a true 'ring of power.' As Aragorn said of Saruman, "Once he was as great as his fame made him. His knowledge was deep, his thought was subtle, and his hands marvelously skilled." and as Gandalf said, "The lore of the Elven-rings, great and small, is his province. He has long studied it, seeking the lost secrets of their making." And as we know, Saruman was originally one of the powerful Maiar of Aulë the Smith just as Sauron had once been. Add to this, his long wanderings, seeking knowledge in many corners of Middle Earth (the libraries of Minus Tirith not the least of these). Add as well, that he had the use of a Palantir, apparently uninhibited for quite a while. Remember what Gandalf said of the Palatir; "Even now my heart desires to test my will upon it, to see if I could not wrench it from him and turn it where I would - to look across the wide seas of water and of time to Tirion the Fair, and perceive the unimaginable hand and mind of Fëanor at their work, while both the White Tree and the Golden were in flower!’ He sighed and fell silent." This suggests (at least until Sauron's return) that a powerful wizard like Saruman could perhaps have used the Pilantir to peer across time and distance to perceive the thoughts of the ring makers themselves.
Wow. What a great pick up. 3 lines of dialogues.
Saruman is one of my favorite characters specifically because of how much I dislike him, which doesn't sound like it makes very much sense. He's one of my favorite characters in the same way that Arthas/The Lich King is one of my favorite characters in Warcraft. Definitely a bad guy, definitely want to kill him, but still one of my favorites. There's something so delightfully tragic about a character who tries to "come back" from the darkness, but it's too late to. A gut-wrenching realization for him, but a fate he deserved. Very strange to have such seemingly conflicting feelings, but that's exactly why Saruman is in my top 5 favorite characters, good or bad. Masterfully crafted and written by the professor.
So - to use the parlance of our times* - ButtHurt is what drove Saruman. Butthurt that Manwe, Galadriel, Cirdan all favored Gandalf over him. I think ambition is also a part of the pathological stew here. Making himself Lord of the World would certainly satisfy both of his demons.
*props if you get the reference.
One of my favorite movie character him and gandalf look like an ideal wizard to fanstasy geeks
at about one minute in, you mention "the scoured hobbits of the shire" this makes it sound as if Saruman is the scourer rather than the dirt that has to be scoured away
I guess I should have said the Hobbits of the scoured shire
wait wait wait. first let me hit that like aaaaaand now.... play
I wonder what Tolkien was trying to communicate by having all of his most bad guys be craftsman specifically.
i am not entirely sure but is curumo the only maya that turned evil after the creation of the universe? (after the whole disharmonic singing from malcor at the beginning when forming the universe)
Saruman was a powerful Istari as he could influence people. Gandalf attained a similar level of power with his elven ring.
I wonder if Saruman's power was related to his own ring?
Corumo being a powerful Maiar who got given an offer too good to refuse and had his ego massaged by being the White Wizard makes sense. And it would be natural for him to communicate with Sauron as they both were Maiar of Aüle and presumably knew each other from a previous life?
Saruman would be almost like a double agent, trying to emulate Sauron from day one while paying lip service to helping the free peoples.
Yes, of course we knew that - that is how he became Saruman of many colors
You know, because of students like Cúrumo and Fëanor, I feel like Aulë gets kind of a bad wrap; it's not his fault that they fell so far. Just because the Vala taught and/or provided guidance to those who considered him a mentor does NOT mean he or his teachings can be held at fault for his students' transgressions. Also, with regard to Saruman, his most apt comparison is, of course, Gandalf, who himself was the pupil of the Vala Nienna back in Aman, a being so wise and compassionate that her tears and songs fertilized the Two Trees themselves. Likewise, Fëanor's most analogous counterpart is Galadriel, but the latter, instead of being sired by a overly-doting guardian like Finwë, had the advantage of being taught wisdom and restraint by Melian the Maia, whose own mentor was the Vala Yavanna, the other half of the duo of angelic arborists.
awesome. thanks
My favorite character didn't get enough attention, but that may be why. Ungoliant needs more love, or better yet. Light
All the Maiars of the Valanor smith become evil, first Souron, then Souraman. The Smith dude was the one who created the Dwarf’s that Iluvitar adopted. I guess his vanity passed on to his Miars
Another great video. Funnily enough, your Facebook post on the Tolkien Society group on this subject got me reading those sections of Unfinished Tales again, and more importantly got me onto these videos. What do you make of the concept of Saruman of Many Colours? Metaphor for how he wanted the powers of all 5 wizards (and more) or do you think he was aiming for the technicolour dreamcoat vibe?
Wow, sorry for taking so long to reply to your comment! I do think it's a metaphor to an extent, as like you say many colours implies wanting the power of all the wizards. But I also think Saruman of Many Colours represents a dissatisfaction with just being The White Wizard. His dialogue about white light being broken and the white page being overwritten suggests to me that Saruman views the purity and delicate nature of 'white' as a weakness that serves as nothing more than a starting point. However Gandalf's comeback that broken light and an overwritten page are "no longer white" suggests that what Saruman sees as weakness in the colour, is exactly what Gandalf perceives as its strength. I do kind of have a hard time imagining Saruman walking around Orthanc in technicolour tie-dye though 😂
Tolkien Untangled I love that idea of the prism and that white isn’t blank but in fact stronger. Brilliant stuff. Personally I think you don’t want him in rainbow tones as you said he’s your least favourite character and you’ve claimed the rainbow look... 😉
@@nicktwyford Haha you may be right! 😀
Maybe he started out with good intentions but became embittered by the continued slights (real or imagined) to his pride. Consider, Saruman was the first of the Istari to volunteer to go to Arda. What do the Valar do? They saddle him with Radagast! It's like the elder sibling being ordered by their parents to take the nerdy younger one with them when the elder wants to hang out with his chums.
Now look at Gandalf from Saruman's perspective: Olorin didn't even want to go! He had to be forced to go. Yet here this slacker enjoys the favor of Manwe; the generosity of Cirdan; and the high regard of the Lady of the Golden Wood! That has GOT to rankle!
So our resentful white wizard with a chip on his shoulder uses the Orthanc stone. He would have been easy prey for Sauron the Deceiver.
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
My vote is Eärendil for #1.
An excellent choice!
Saruman corrupt his own mind.. Sauron probably added to this but I don't think he was a "rotten egg" from day 1 with the fact that he was Saruman the White, Saruman the wise - you don't get those status' for no reason. Gandalf had to defeat a balrog to become Gandalf the white, it begs me the question of - what did Saruman do to achieve this level?
I once read that Gandalf told all the others to run so he could defeat the balrog himself and claim all the experience points, he gets new gear, new horse, ups quite a few levels etc and I thought that was quite amusing.. untrue but amusing XD
Would it be possible that Saruman’s ring was what gave his voice the power of persuasion? If this is the case I imagine that him being stripped of his position among the Istari by Gandalf removed any power his ring had, but this again is just my theory.
That was a power that seemed to be just part of him. He still had it somewhat all the way at the end in the shire.
The Istari, along with Sauron and the Balrog, are all Maia....lesser angels, so to speak. But, Gandalf noted that Saraman the White had become Saraman of the Many Colors. Saraman was so arrogant, he truly thought he could overthrow Sauron at some point and become the Ruler (tyrant) of all of Middle Earth. He did biogenetics by breeding his Uric Kai. (Yes, I know I spelled it wrong, lol) But, Saraman had been searching for the One Ring for ages....for himself. I doubt he ever had intention of turning it over to Sauron, even if he could have found it.
Fingolfin, Galadriel y Sam
So Saruman was jealous of Gandalf because the bods guy wanted him to go to Middle Earth? I would need to look into that a little more. I haven’t read the Unfinished Tales yet. That will have to be my next task.
Oh, wow! Another long one! Should be interesting.
Name suggestion:
Rainbow Dave < Dave of Many Colours
Galadriel
Feanor is objectively the best character.
Feanor did nothing wrong.
How where the orcs fed?
I mean all of them like Mordor gundabad Moria where was their supply chain
Orcish maggoty whey bread, a single bite will kill your appetite for a day.
Aragorn💗💞💓
"but in reality" ahemm!! do you think we tell him ?
I would love to a 4th age saruman the new dark lord.
I loved Saruman
one of many defective copies of the one ring saruman had tried to make. he decided he needed the genuine article after all at some point.. i still prefer saruman back when he was known as curumo the skilled, just as everyone else prefers sauron when he was known as mairon the admirable.
I think Saruman is a great character, and I enjoy him. The one I dislike the most is probably Bilbo. I find him insufferable.
Let's put it this way, i have more dislike for Wormtongue than i have of Saruman.
Saruman is a pretty "cool" character with lots of power, just used to the wrong end.
My favorite character is Gandalf for sure, and Saruman would actually end up somewhere in the middle. He's a bad guy and he does horrible things but he's quite an interesting character. Far more interesting than Sauron. Out of all the bad guys, Saruman would rank among the top in that group. Not because of the bad things he does, but because he's quite badass if you ask me.
Sauron is merely a shadow at this point in time, a has been. A wimpy crying baby that needs a change of diapers.
Glorfindel
Saruman has always seemed out of place to me. To be a little more specific, his rationale and motives never made sense to me. He's the head of his order, that has to mean something. Where are his redeeming qualities?
Favourite characters in a top 5 since i cant order them
Morgoth
Helm hammerhand
Witch king if angmar
Sauron - especially in the first and second age
Fingolfin, probably my favourite besides morgoth
Honorable mentions includr dain ironfoot and gandalf
It’s funny the part of Saruman’s statement I zoned in on was his statement of “many colors” and it’s actually another piece of understanding just how clever Ol’ J really was.
Backstory, mine to be precise.
I am new to this fandom and I come…let’s say not exactly from Narnia but further North…yes. I like putting it that way for just the other day I was listening to these videos just to see how deep did J bake our “old story” into his massive cake and I’m STILL feeling somewhat shocked, impressed, and a little betrayed…but enough! Imagination and rhyme time!….
Imagine a room there’s J on his pipe C.S. Is reading the script and me I just got there enjoying a good vape….C says to J “Are you sure THIS is the way? You could make it clearer I think it could be better that way”
Me? I’m quite I’m not even supposed to be here I’m just “little J”
J says C: “oh don’t worry let it be, they’ll all enjoy it just trust me give it a rest”
Me?: bros…I mean uh “Good Sirs” I hope you don’t mind I don’t mean to take up your time but I must compliment you both on your “delicious cakes” there’s laughter in the room three lovers of the pen, “The Breath”, The Mind and a good Mood so it’s all cool. Between us they get what I really mean.
But then I take a breath look at them both and then I speak:
“C’s cake is very sweet you taste The Sugar right away and it’s neat! Since I was a child I loved the whole thing it’s sublime!
As for J since you want it this way I’ve only now even touched your cake! Your words I heard when I was young gave me much pause….but now I think it’s ok. I think it’s better your way! for it takes wisdom to taste the sugar in your cake. It too is sublime. My assumption was false I can taste The Truth it’s there you never forgot to add it I now know that’s true. And it’s good, very good, if this moment was real I would thank you……
A flash of Lightning on a clear day begins to give “The Truth” away…we three nod say some last precious words a few laughs but I go for I must heed The Time…..staying could be dangerous and lead to my very own True Death.
I blink find myself back here and I’m smiling because me? I have no real fear, I can enjoy and explore this massive world in Peace. You’ve got a talent I’m sure you know my friend I enjoyed your video, very much until it’s end thank you very much for I’ve been dying to write out that odd scene!
It is finished
So let there be light! 🫰🏿
Please don’t worry I don’t bite…but I’m not tame and shine very bright….hopefully thanks to Ol’ J and Ol’ C I think we all know what I mean! ……wait I’m just realizing 👀 ohhhhh nnnoooooo Well I really must go! I think I left some brownies in “The Northern Garden” wait what? No I must go!! Look at the time!!! Have a swell night…or day idk times funny that way! Byeee!! 👋🏿 😂😅🤣 ⛈😶🌫️🔥🫠 🎶 🫰🏿
All I heard was maybe, maybe, maybe.
Well, then, maybe Saruman was gay, you know, a man of many colors, and what has many colors?... a rainbow; meaning Saruman belong to tha alphabet community.
Just saying.
You know, one would consider that the Valar were partially to blame for Suraman's fall. I mean, honestly, what do you think happens when someone who works hard to learn his craft and acquire wisdom is unceremoniously given a task of great import along with another who seems timid, irresolute and a bit of slacker and the latter is shown a great deal of favoritism. Even the father of the prodigal son was generous to BOTH sons.
My least favorite character is one from the movies. I absolutely HATED that one stupid elf and the love triangle between her, Legolas and Fili. I just thought that it was really dumb and that it just doesn't fit with Tolkien's epic. It also takes Bilbo out of the spotlight, and the whole book is about his progression and growth in his great journey. The movie shouldn't be a carbon copy, but they shouldn't add major characters just to fit the modern version of a fantasy, which seems to require romance.
Saruman took up jewelry making in his spare time. He sells the rings at street fairs.
I'll take one or maybe two then lol.