Having said earlier on this comments thread that I might be the right user for such device I finally purchased the ifi zen stream and I am gobsmacked by its ease of use and the way it improves clarity, soundstage, and bass performance (coming from a direct laptop connection) Connected to bifrost 2 through usb and using Roon and Tidal this thing is simply amazing. Not cheap in cheap audio man terms but a very good value and truly hifi.
I have two key takeaways from this video: 1) the direct integration of tidal connect, AirPlay and roon is different from most streamers 2) there wasn’t any reference to the sound quality of the Ifi streamer 3) the author assumes it’s easy to build a Pi based streamer, but made a big deal about the setup procedures I stumbled upon the ifi stream and I love it. My setup was using a MacBook Pro to connect directly to my DAC via a long usb cable, and switching to the little ifi stream was a great decision. The unit is super easy to use, I can run tidal from my laptop, phone and iPad to the streamer. The fact I don’t have to download a streamer specific app is amazing. I added an ifi power elite right away and I appreciate the extra power isolation, plus signal filtering capabilities of the streamer. The rest of my system are: - Mojo Mystique Evo Pro - Pass Labs XA25 amp - PMC Fact 12 speakers in a treated room The sound is just flat out amazing and I actually very much appreciate the Ifi Stream.
Totally there with you, and thank you for spending some real time with the Zen Stream! I’ve had an Allo Digione for some time now. Albeit glitchy, it’s actually been fun to maintain it with updates, fixes, trying beta plugins, etc. It can be exceedingly frustrating at times, and I do look into options. But I keep coming back to it. It just sounds SO GOOD for the $, and seems (still) the most flexible option for the $. There are other similar transport/bridges that have been tested to better it in SQ. The Lindeman Limetree comes to mind. But -as you’ve pointed out in these scenarios - one must fork out much more to level up…and the total benefit is yet again very system dependent. Curious to see how it compares in SQ to the buggy little RPi setups it seems to be designed to target. As others have stated, your honesty and your grace is refreshing 🙏🏼
I've used the Lindemann Limetree Bridge in my system for a while now. It's been rock solid and in my system sounds better than the Node 2i I replaced it with.
I might be the right customer for such product. I don’t know, I can’t put my finger on streaming anyway, but all I know is I don’t wanna connect my computer to my dac, wanna use my own dac and don’t wanna pay for a dac I won’t be using. I also want jitterless output. Great review. Honesty is the best policy.
@@xstensl8823 true thou, if you look at pure transport streamer, for example Lumin/Auralic/Aurender/Esoteric, they've all got pure digital out streamer, the cheapest Lumin U1 mini cost US1150
AFAIK ifi is working on an app for the Stream and since I'm looking for a streamer I'm gonna wait and see what the app is like before making a decision. And it's a pitty you didn't comment on the sound quality (or I missed that). My CD transport sounds better than USB from my laptop and if the zen stream gets me closer to the sound of my transport, then that's a value proposition.
You'll pay $20 for "audiophile" Velcro cable wraps, but a truly excellent sounding streamer with integrated S/PDIF iPurifer2 ($199), USB iPurifier3 ($109), iPower ($49), nice casework, integrated TIDAL Connect, and custom firmware is not worth $399? Interesting. The ZEN Stream is a significant step up from my previous favorite streaming solution, Silent Angel VitOS for RPi4…and that's a fairly dramatic step up from RoPieee wrt sound quality. Like others here, I wish you had commented on how the ZEN Stream sounds in your systems. I'm new to your channel though. Perhaps that's not the sort of thing you talk about. Still, looking forward to a follow-up video comparing the sound of the ZEN Stream to your favorite RoPieee build.
This guy clearly hasn't LISTENED to this device. I returned my Bluesound Node 2021 after listening to the Zen Stream using a Linear PSU. Never heard anything better. It's so good that I got a another for my headphones setup. This guy is not a SOUND reviewer... clearly!
Old guy moment. I'm totally lost. For $50 more I bought my Bluesound Node on sale, it gets my Qobuz and it includes a DAC. Thanks for your honesty in the review.
Update 210723: After extensive listening comparing built in Node 2 DAC to Chord Mojo, it is very obvious that the Mojo is a hefty step up in detail, dynamics, sound stage, imaging, and not the least, pure listening joy. Absolutely. ** ATTENTION ! ** An annoying node 2 problem: Alot lower output volume than CD player and turntable. "Fixed volume" and "No ToneControl" in settings does improve, BUT still much much lower volume than CD etc. VERY unpractical, and an ever present risk of swapping source without thinking, almost smoking your ears when going from Node 2 to CD . CRAPPY!! Original Comment: You are sooo right. Bought a Node 2 used for 250$ today, and plugged my Chord Mojo in as supposedly higher quality DAC, even if I suspect the built in is just fine.... With latest software in the Node 2, it does both TIDAL Connect and Spotify Connect like a charm. And speaking of software and general user friendliness, the Bluesound Node:s are very, very easy to get going, and eliminate most moments of frustration.
@@vespass225 Congratulations. I'm a keep it simple guy. You might benefit from a different Coax cable depending on the compatibility of the you use now. I use a rather expensive Cable from my CD to my DAC but for streaming, I'm perfectly happy with a Mogami 2964 digital cable I picked up on Amazon or Ebay for $40, a fraction of that my other cable cost. Just something to play with. Your mileage may vary. I also found a Kimber Kable model 30 for $95 to be an excellent coax.
@@fletchermunson6225 Thanks for respons! I am just now into the questioning if a better coax cable would influence sound at all, or more make me feel better. What is your experience?
@@vespass225 I'm a cable geek. No doubt about it. I use a Kimber Kable D60 silver cable in my system because I blundered into it on a deal. As I mentioned their 30 is a great bargain as is the Mogami. Some people don't believe a cheap cable like the Mogami can be good. It is. I got covid bored and listened to a dozen COAX cables and I think it bested The Addio quest Carbon, the Nordost cheap Coax, Blue Jeans, Monoprice etc. The Canare at the same price was also good but that sucker is STIFF. I had a brief listen to the Gotham Digital cable and it was also cheap and promising. The nice thing about bottom feeding on cables is you can try a lot and no big financial risk. Get them on Amazon and return them within 30 days if they don't pan out. I actually have a spare for sale cheap with RCA at one ends and BNC on the other if that is something you could use and are in the states.
@@fletchermunson6225 Thanks for tip and offer. I am covid bored, but not in the states, but in Gothenburg, Sweden. I have since we left office for working from home in beginning of March 2020, bought so many things over internet, mostly audio equipment, that I don't really want to sum up what it has cost. Lots of fun though. My first two tube HiFi amps ever. Dreamt about one when young in the early eighties, but they were silly expensive for my modest salary of that time. Got the Reisong A10 for New Years Eve 2020, dirt cheap from china-hifi.com. 270$ incl. shipping. Line Magnetic LM 216iA this May. Both very nice. Will try the Mogami you proposed.
I just got an ifi zen stream and use a google mesh network and have had no problems so far - set up was very easy. I’m using it as a Roon endpoint and also for airplay streaming from my phone. This review scared me but so far I’m happy with it!
I purchased it and sound great. I can put my usb key with DSD format records and it's super! Tidal with MQA gives my records a real blast!!! Connect it with my Denafrips Ares 2 gives rebirth to my prefered records!!! Thanks Ifi, Denafrips, Hegel, Tidal and Focal for this!!!
Sorry new to your channel here. Actually your review dosent cover the only 1 thing I am looking for. How does it SOUND compared to other products like the bluesound, raspberry pi product or more high end streamers like innuos/melco? Thanks!
The folks at Audio Excellence (RUclips) are saying that the Zen Stream sounds much much better than the new NODE (both using presumably the same external DAC). It’ll be interesting to do a comparison if you still have the Stream around. For now, I remain skeptical as we are dealing with differences at the bit level rather than at an analog output stage. If it does sound better than the NODE, then this is the Zen’s value proposition.
@@foblivio have both do like the zen better , cleaner , more accurate…but not getting tidal connect to work , on tidal it states streaming but not being picked up by the zen , have to use airplay
A streamer should be "bit perfect", so as far as tcp/ip streaming is concerned all streamers should sound the same. This changes if you "pipe" sound through lossy bluetooth protocols. All bets are off in this case.
It is an exceptionally clean streamer with a USB out for people who can't be bothered to tinker with Pi and clean power supplies, hats etc. There is nothing cleaner for the money that you can buy off the shelf and that is the point of this product and it's price point. Of course, to be able to appreciate the difference your gear needs to be revealing enough and the target audience is someone who is going to use it with a Zen DAC and some 500$ plus headphones. Z always says it- you can rarely hear the difference between DACs on a speaker system but put headphones and it shall be revealed in seconds...
I was in the market for buying one, I'm so.pleased I watched this review and probably saved myself some disappointment. At the moment I'm just taking the optical out from an old Chromcast Audio and putting it through a new Topping Dac, both running off a 5 volt battery power supply and the sound is pretty damn good. Thanks for your honest review.
Great review Randy, you and I were the first ones! To me, the Zen streamer is a finished "raspberry pie" much like the microrendu or the sotm 200 ultra. Not everyone is daring or smart enough (speaking for a friend 😁) to put together a raspberry into a box, etc. This is a purist product, one that provides galvanic isolation and allows you to upgrade your dac or computer while keeping the network bridge usability. But I admit that the focus of my review was roon and I am just elated that for the first time, ifi has embraced roon. And 400 bucks is much better than my SOTM 200 ultra.
Hey, man! I’m glad you liked it. I just find it strange that ifi does dacs and headphone amps do well and then ventures out into a streamer that is specific to certain individuals with certain abilities. So it’s further segmenting and already small market. I also didn’t like they they used lack of features as a “feature”. This product just isn’t for me. Maybe if I could hear a blind test and experience the difference it would be different for me. But if someone wants to do Roon why not just get a rasbpi with ropieee and a better power supply and a zen DAC for less. This product just doesn’t make sense to me but I’m probably too dumb to understand why.
@@cheapaudioman it comes with a very decent psu and it comes certified and pré configured for roon, as per the little selector thingy. Therefore I'm the dumb one because I don't know the software that you you just mentioned 😩
@@DeAudiofilosyLocos ha. You’re not stupid. I’m glad you like it. It was just a little cantankerous for me and that’s something I’m used to with Rasb pis but didn’t expect it from a “finished” product. They mentioned that it competes with 1K products and I wish they would tell me which one so I could compare them.
@@cheapaudioman the raspberry pi is considered noisy by the "high browed", that's where the microrendu came in, because it was designed for sound, unlike the raspberry pi. Then the sotm and others as well as the bluesound, but I agree the price could be better. However it offers wifi and the Rasp. Doesn't. I currently have the sotm 200 ultra and it is not cheap.
I came here for a sound comparison. Personally, I'm not fazed by the software essentially being a Pi. Sound and value are the most important to me. Please review the sound output compared to the Pi and Bluesound node 2i
It’s on its way back to Ifi. I didn’t AB them against each other into the same DAC. But I didn’t hear anything significant enough to notice it was anything than marginally better or worse than a pi
@@aaronsadventures23 I seriously doubt that this streamer can sound better than a RbPi with an Allo DigiOne Signature HAT, for the same price, and it is sent to you already assembled with the OS of your choice, almost plug and play, superb sound.
Only issue is that when someone only deals with cheap audio , he/her may not be able to recognise a components sounding several leagues higher. In my experience, the Zen streamer is that product.
Don’t make the mistake of assuming that because someone uses “cheap” in their handle that they only know about crappy products. I’ve not observed your bias to be correct.
@@DavidMontgomery1 When the reviewer puts the bluesound node in the top spot, you know there is a problem. I have tested quite a few entry level streamers including the node and the zen. The zen came on top of all streamers tested and the node was no better than my Mcbook although super functional. So I base my assumptions not on my intellect, like so many people, but on my listening impressions.
@@lesarnolfinis6775 You’re trying to make a definitive, no-exceptions rule for a question that is ultimately a matter of personal taste. I dispute the ability of you, or anyone, to do that. All we can offer are our opinions, hopefully backed by reason, intellect, and experience.
@@DavidMontgomery1 "All we can offer are our opinions, hopefully backed by reason, intellect, and experience": exactly what I am doing, thx. I stand by what I said, in his review he does not talk about how the Zen sounds; just about the fact that he does not get the product which just offers a digital out. In my experience the quality of the streamer is nearly as important as the quality of the dac. So I think he did not get the product because he did not test it in the right environment to see where it shines. Now that he has a Denafrips Pontus, may be he would get the value proposition!
Not even close. I have a node 2i and was about to upgrade and went with if. I have a DAC, I don't need the node. I don't need multiple ones for rooms, so I don't need the node. The ifi is less money and has more built into it as most audiophile people could care less about the DAC in the node and have ones much better.
@@morespinach9832 Except this doesn't really produce any sound on its own. The quality is going to depend on the gear that you pair with it. The Zen Stream is essentially just going to act as a DDC and streamer end-point. So it'll deal with any noise or jitter issues you would normally get over USB from a direct connection with a PC to your DAC, as an example. How much will this affect your sound? Depends on how much noise, if any, that you had previously to this. At the very least it won't degrade audio quality.
@@Sazabi69 You state that "this doesn't really produce any sound on it's own," but then you go on to mention that it might affect the sound. And THEN you say that "At the very least it won't degrade audio quality." I don't know what to make of your comment. Are you saying that there are no audible differences between any streamers? Because Audio Excellence Canada feels differently, and that the iFi Zen Stream clearly outshines the Bluesound Node in reference to its sound quality (using the same outboard DAC). ruclips.net/video/PP1Zsh078nU/видео.html
@@cablebrain9691 I'm talking from the point of using this solely as a streamer to a separate DAC, because the Stream is not a DAC, in that sense it does not produce any sound. It's merely a transport. I'm not saying there are no audible differences between any streamers. Not sure why you're painting this as if I'm viewing the Zen Stream in a negative light or even disagreeing with Audio Excellence Canada? I'd even agree with them, but I haven't been able to compare the two units personally. According to them, clearly the Stream does something better than the Node. What makes it better may be all kinds of things. It may be the power supply, the iPurifier, less USB noise or any kind of combination thereof. It also depends on if you had any issues with your system previously. Like in my own case, one of my PC builds was rather noisy over USB. Something like the Stream could fix it, or any other DDC / streamer for that matter. The result is going to vary in the end, but my original point still stands, the ifi Zen Stream does not produce sound on its own, it transports it. For sake of clarification, I should have used "shouldn't" instead of "won't" (degrade audio quality).
@@Sazabi69 I did understand that you meant it solely as a streamer. But even your closing sentence mentioned that it "won't degrade audio quality." It certainly can, if it adds jitter due to noise within the streamer. But as important is what it does to clean-up jitter from its input (re-clocking, galvanic isolation), and to keep it correct all the way to its output. Also, none of one's audio components produce audio until the signal reaches the speakers or headphones (except for a turntable if you put your ear up to it). I don't think that I've stated anything that would indicate what I believe your opinion to be concerning the iFi Zen Stream. I think we're talking semantics here. We're basically on the same page. I just didn't want anyone walking away from your statement thinking that a streamer can't ultimately affect the sound of their systems. All's good. 🙂 P.S.- I'm using a Chromecast Audio with an iFi iPurifier connected between it and a Topping E30 DAC, streaming Tidal, so I'm very curious as to how much better something like the iFi Zen Stream might be. I'm also looking to upgrade all of my other electronics. I'm searching for that bang-for-the-buck sweet-spot, new or used. Advancements are coming so quickly that it's difficult to know when to buy or how much to spend.
Owning both ifi Zen Stream and BlueSound Node, the ifi Zen Stream is simply one of those products that puts sound quality over everything, especially OS. All the ifi products I’ve bought over the years have always given some degree of improvement in the sound quality of my digital music. The ifi Zen Stream is no exception. Of course the rest of your system is going to have to be revealing enough to take advantage of the added sound quality. Are your speakers set up correctly, quality amplifiers, room treatment, clean AC, quality cables(SSSSSS), and high quality lossless source will help you realize 1’s and 0’s when it comes to real time streaming of digital audio are not simply 1s and 0s. Everything matters, and Your source is paramount. General purpose PC’s are electrically noisy streamers. That’s where the ifi Zen Stream comes to the rescue. Despite its OS teething issues, you won’t find a more transparent holographic music streamer under $400.
Here are my experiences after 1 hour with the device: Set up is indeed a bit confusing. You have to connect first via ethernet and update to the latest software before attempting to connect via wi-fi. The instructions and set up video should be improved. BUT, once it's up and running I can say it's definitely a big improvement over the Bluesound Node 2i in terms of sound quality: clearer and more detailed, with a deeper soundstage, and just more engaging. I'm running the Zen Stream into a Denafrips Ares ii via USB, whereas with the Bluesound Node 2i I was using the coaxial output from the Bluesound. One user on a different page left a comment that he thought the USB output from the Zen Stream didn't sound very good but that has not been my experience at all.
so q's for you i was going to buy this streamer and connect to the pro-ject pre box s2(dac) usb in...but it says for pc hook up only.... are they saying no way this would work??? again ifi stream usb out to s2 usb in....
@@jedknutson8373 Hi Jed. I don’t see why usb output from this streamer or any other streamer would be different than usb output from a computer (the streamer is essentially a small dedicated computer). But if you’re worried about it, ask project as it would be an issue with your DAC.
I’m having no problems with my Zen stream. It’s categorized as a transport. Meaning, all it does is pass the unaltered digital stream “DIRECTLY” from your Wi-Fi router to the outputs in the back. Did you get the firmware update installed? It’s also important to know that your controlling device is essentially only telling Tidal what to play (send). The “stream” goes from Tidal’s servers to your Wi-Fi router then directly to the zen stream and not back through your phone. That’s why you can’t control the volume from your phone. And that’s a good thing for audio purity because Apple uses the inferior AAC CODEC to the ones available from Tidal and others through the streamer if using airplay. The point is: don’t use airplay! Your paying for hi-res audio. Let the streamer and your music service do their jobs so you are in fact hearing hi-res. I also agree with you that your Wi-Fi is either slow or you have some interference from metallic objects or electrically generated magnetic fields from other components nearby. I’m using the Tidal app on my iPhone or iPad. Interestingly it appears that a short time after music is selected and playing, if no additional music selections are made the app will separate the phone from the Tidal server. But all selected music in queue continues to play unless you reconnect the app to the server to add or edit selections. All without interrupting play. I can close the app and or turn my iPad or iPhone off and all music in my queue continues to play. Small price to pay for top level streaming at this price. I output directly to my Cambridge CXA81 through an Audioquest Carbon USB A to B .75 meter cable. That’s it. No Roon. I feel Roon is an expensive duplication of function. I also tried the s/pdif digital coaxial output but used a stranded cable and the sound was slightly harsh and lacked strong bass. I haven’t tried a high quality s/pdif yet but the USB cable improved sound quality significantly. Zen Stream delivers good Clean, punchy bass & well defined staging. Although I use Tidal I leave the zen mode selector in position 1. I think the switch may be to speed device separation from the server once play is initiated. Ifi’s explanation of the Tidal connect position 3 is ”This is the setting for you”. Not very informative. I suspect tidal app activates separation without any user prompt. I also suspect that the separation facilitates less server clutter to free up more user aces to maximizing server stability during high demand periods.
You wrote 5 months ago: "I’m using the Tidal app on my iPhone or iPad. Interestingly it appears that a short time after music is selected and playing, if no additional music selections are made the app will separate the phone from the Tidal server. But all selected music in queue continues to play unless you reconnect the app to the server to add or edit selections. All without interrupting play. I can close the app and or turn my iPad or iPhone off and all music in my queue continues to play. Small price to pay for top level streaming at this price." I have had similar experiences with my WiiM Mini Streamer when controlling it via PC. If I'm doing too many things on my PC, Tidal will soon disconnect from it and "lose its place" yet the music queue keeps playing. King of aggravating but kind of cool at the same time.
Yeah... I'll stick with my RPi solution for Roon. RPi4+Ropieee+HiFiBerry DAC Pro2+MicroSD+Case... $160 on Amazon. Easy, looks good, works great. Takes a half hour or so to assemble, flash, and set up. Once you've done it, it's a breeze. Got 4 of them scattered around the house now... oh, and the HiFiBerry DAC is excellent.
Thank Randy for telling it like it is. I try to always remember that they can't all be homeruns, sometimes it a swing and a miss. It may help bring the improved version to market quicker. CHEAPER
Great video, Randy. iFi Zen Stream sounds like too much work for $400. For a little more $$$ you can get a 2019 Apple Mac Mini to stream with, and control it with an iPhone or iPad.
I just returned the ifi zen because my macbook running Audirvana and Denafrips dac sounded better to my ears. I think it’s all about the implementation even if many reviewers prefer streamers vs Macbook or Mac mini🤔
I don't know brother, I think there's more here than meets the initial eye, and initial offering, but we will have to see how it plays out. I'm thinking you are 75-80 percent right on your call but... There is an app coming called Stream-iFi-app, and it being open source and not tied to anything may have huge benefits in the near (or distant) future! Also I cannot tell you how many times a month I get asked for direction or outright "can you build me a Pi" questions, I think we all have to remember back to before we finally built or watched our first Pi being put together and Loaded with whatever suited ya! They may have found a market here for a product that doesn't "really" have a master, or owe anyone anything in the streaming world. Only time will tell!! Cheers Bro!!
Just buy a new basic iPad for $329, hook it up to your ifi Zen DAC, download Spotify, Tidal, etc. app, easy login, and listen… that is what I am doing right now. For portability, I throw the iPad into my shoulder bag, with a Dragonfly and IEMs. And when I am not streaming I have a great tablet!
Thanks for the video, would have been nice a sound comparison with other streamers as well as describing your set up. I heard this product sounds way better than blue sound. But I understand your interface criticism. In my case I only stream tidal so a product like this is probably a decent option if it offers great sound quality.
You dont get or coz you clearly haven't really HEARD it. Any good source takes a decent system to show it's true colors. For those reading this, do try to it with a Linear PSU...you'll thank yourself for getting this. I immediately returned my Bluesound Node 2021 after listening to this...never heard anything better! Got a second unit for my headphones setup...this sounds that good!
Love the Ifi product line, the only bad thing I could possibly say is their buttons feel so loose and flimsy though. Makes it feel like a super cheap product when you interact with it which is a big shame given the quality anodizing on the metal body and the solid knob.
An honest review from his perspective. I really wanted the available USB on the IFI Zen out for my DAC, and other reviewer(s) have praised the sound output. I have a great DAC, but it has a limited number of inputs so I need to use the USB input it has, and I have heard USB (when properly cabled) has great sound. I currently own a Node 2i and feel this will be an upgrade. Have one ordered, can't wait to get it.
@@Oak-n-Iron Yes, I have got the USB working and it is working well into my Prima Luna DAC. I love the sound from this unit allthou it is more difficult to find when it loses the internet for any length of time. I think it is a good buy...
This is my first time viewing your channel. I’m a little surprised at your assessment of a product’s “value”. I have no experience with this product, but I sit in front of my system to enjoy its SOUND, not to contemplate its connectivity.
At the end of the day, the price point makes you wish it was a Bluesound Node without a DAC. It makes you wonder if Bluesound would ever make such a device or if they think it might cannibalize sales of their Node? As Randy said, at its price point of $400, there needs to be some demonstration that it is, in fact, better than a Raspberry Pi 4B with an Allo Digione Signature Hat which comes in at $402 with a Shanti Dual Linear Power Supply and acrylic case.
Both fellows at Audio Excellence say t sounds as good as 1500 streamers.....they played it through the dac in a Hegal 3## amplifier...they also used an expensive connection from Zen / or Node to the Hegal.....sloop in a direct comparison, on an revealing system, the Zen sounded better hands down than the new bluesound node.......on my low/ midfi system....probably couldn't t hear the difference...... Waiting for some $300 used bluesound nodes to hit the market....
@@galessi1226 the video I watched had them comparing it to the Node 2i, not the new Node....And I'd take ONE single positive (or negative) review with a big grain of salt... Besides, this is the "cheapaudioman" channel, not the "let's spend $500 on voodoo cables and unicorns" channel. If those guys could hear such a difference, then more power to them, but on "reasonably" priced gear that sonic difference is probably lost if at all present. Instead of using a Hegel, feed it into a $400 Denon or Emotiva amp using Amazon Basics cables and see if at the end of the day is it "better"...
I asked a bricks and mortar store about it (they do carry it as one of their options). It doesn't do gapless on Spotify....That's a deal breaker for many people...
Thanks for this. When I first heard of this product I had huge buyer's remorse for my Audiolab 6000n streamer. Love the way it sounds, but hate that I can only use Amazon HD via DTS playfi. However after your review I don't feel so bad! Begs the question though, why is there no 'Amazon Music HD connect' like Spotify and tidal have? Also, surely you can build a decent 'blank canvas' hi-fi streamer with decent usability that doesn't cost the earth?
@@dynodin81 I have the 6000a amp as well, so use the DAC in that (digital coax from 6000N to 6000a). The DACs in both are the same, but if you have both Audiolab recommends you do it that way.
I love the honesty and directness of this review. Any chance you'll review the Allo Boss2 streamer+dac - $150-$200? Yes it's RPI based but not so do-it-yourself.
Great vídeo! I have a médium cost AVR with no streaming capabilities and been looking to solution. Since you are familiar to Raspberys, what do you think about this product: HiFiBerry DAC2 HD?
Hey, sorry for the noob question, but do I even need a dac if I have a Raspberry Pi Streamer with HifiBerry OS and DAC2 HD Top Hat on it? Would it do any good to me?
so... In terms of sound quality , that is no big different between Zen and Ri 4 with Volumio ? i am not a fans in "Digital is Digital", i always hear the different when i am in Hi-end AV show...i am looking a good digital transport....what do you recommend ? Thank you
Nice review. SVS Soundbase you can also catch for under $400 open-box. It does everything...that I need, and I never ever thought I'd get a "streamer".
Big fan of your pragmatic and credible reviews. Wish i saw this Zen Stream review earlier. Although it sounds fine ( probably thanks to Geshelly J2 to Luxman R-117 to Klipsch Chorus2 and Yam NS-890s) this device snd app or chronically problematic. I experienced the same irritation/frustration you mentioned re the wifi set up. My download measured >300 mbps & upload >90mbps but it would not connect (used 5 and 2.4 ghz too). No issues with other wifi products in same area ( occulus, sonos…). It only works via ethernet. The app freezes up and or slow to respond. Since iFi doesn’t offer a phone or chat option, I sent the formal customer service request the second day of ownership ( after hours of futility and frustration) with photos and graphs. Site advises 2 day response, it has been 4 full business days and No Response. Ready to return and purchase Bluesound newest Node. Bummed.
this was a rather cavalier review. what you failed to mention was all the propriety technology that IFI has incorporated in the Zen Stream, you where amiss in comparing this to a Pi therefore. please read the features listed for this product on the IFI website. EMI noise is a constant and verifiable issue that plagues computer audiophiles. IFI is a leader in this field in addressing this problem. it will be interesting to see the subsequent reviews of this product that will delve deeper into its capabilities. until then i am keeping an open mind.
I can say that the Stream is a step forward in sound quality compared to my mac book pro used as a streammer. Its clearer, deeper and wider to my ears.
Do you still have your Stream and happy with it? I'm about to order one..I've had a couple streamers already but looking for better sound quality. I'm told the Zen is the best quality for the money.
@@NosEL34 yes, I still have it and I love it! To get the best sound quality I must suggest to upgrade the power source and used with a decent quality ethernet cable and a jitter filter on the usb output and a good usb cable 👍🏻
@@rlakes I have a couple decent dacs I could use but my plan is to use it with my RME ADI-2 Dac, this will be strictly for streaming so the RME is a great preamp as well. I'll probably just order the Zen with the "cheaper" Ifi Power 2 model. If I feel a need to upgrade I can do it later down the road. Thanks for all your feedback, I appreciate it
I must have missed something because I use Volumio on my miniDSP SHD and it does Roon as well as my Allo DigiOne. What is the difference in performance there? Edit: I watched the whole video, I think I know what you're referring to here. I had to assign my miniDSP a permanent IP address on my router and configure it in the Volumio UI. Before I did that the miniDSP/Volumio would drop out after an hour or two and I'd have to reset the router to get it back. I've had zero drop-outs since I assigned a permanent IP.
This ifi Stream would be good for adding to an Audiolab M-Dac Plus / Pre-amp connected to a pair of Adam Audio T5V Active Monitors for a good Music & TV setup
I'm planning to get a t5v as well. Does it require sub for near field use? I listen to very little electronic music. So it's basically for quartet jazz, rock and soundtrack mostly.
@@prabinpaudel5572 I listen to mainly Blues Rock bands Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd etc and Adam Audio T5V sound great, there is plenty of Bass from them l lower the Bass a bit in the room that they are used in. I listen about 10ft away for tv use so not just for near field use
Hi, I came to see the Denon DNP-800 and the Marantz NS6006, both I believe having a DAC and being at around $700. Your thoughts on these products and if they fall short in certain aspects (app?) that would make them less attractive. I am looking to build a good Hi-Fi system (willsenton R8, about $800 paired with maybe kplisch 600 speakers, about $650, and now I am scratching my head with the streamer and DAC thing that Jack the total price up....
I hope you can review the newest Bluesound Node, at some point. I am curious about the new DAC they have, as well as any other added/improved features.
The ifi zen stream using the coaxial output with the selection switche at the back in the first position, and using tidal connect sounds amazing. Much bettet than any of the node streamers
Can we please have a review of the Audioengine B-Fi Streamer with DAC and digital outs for $189. (NOT the B1 Bluetooth unit) as a DACless and all in one unit. Thanks
Great Review, I want to get the Ifi DAC V2 as my computer is really near my audio system. And then if need be, get a streamer later...but doesn't seem to be many options for just stream other than whatever Minecraft, woodshed thing that Pi thing is. Thanks!
From what I have been reading , it's coax or USB sounds superior to Node. I wish it had Amazon Music HD Ultra , does Ifi plan to add Amazon HD Ultra to this unit?
@@kdomster9141 Unfortunately Amazon is the problem. They will not let anyone see their code other than Bluesound or Heos/PlayFi. Stupid of them as they don’t have any Amazon products that can offer the full Amazon Music HD service. 😖
I use the Ifi Bluetooth device from accessing a PC in my "Man Cave". The Bluetooth glitches occasionally. So I was thinking of going with a WIFI device to my NAS. I was thinking of going with a Audio Engine B-Fi which is $189. Is there a better alternative. Is that alternative the new Ifi?
I don't get this review, because it isn't a review. The selling point seems to be a better signal out, so I'd expect a comparison of a Pi4 and this one into a DAC and comments on the difference in sound quality, if there is any. That would have been a review.
exactly, lets see how the SQ compares connected to the same 3 external DACs against the Bluesound Node and a Auralic G1 transport. could be a giant killer?
I currently use IMAC 2015 connected via USB to iFi NEO idsd. Would I hear a sound quality improvment if I were to add this to my chain and hook this up to my DAC instead of using the Computer as a streamer?
I am considering this product to be my dedicated streamer instead of the DTS Play-Fi based streamer inside Audiolab 6000A Play which cannot play gapless. I am sure one could get used to the gaps, but if 400$ can save me from going nuts, I am happy to pay.
They are talking about chromecast that will be coming in a future firmware upgrade. Will that be the same as chromecast audio. In that case, I will consider it.
Bloody love your reviews so thanks, would you possibly do an update to comment on how it actually sounds vs other streamers. Maybe the value is in how it sounds 👍👍
Well, it has high quality components, like a very accurate power supply and a very accurate Femto reclocking circuit that kills all jitter. This defines most part of the price level and will raise signal accuracy to a very high standard.
Just picked on up second hand and I had zero issues with WIFI dropouts -- even when streaming DSD256 roon only switch set. My unit is in a bedroom for late night listening over a Google mesh network. An access point is also in the bedroom.
This was an extremely helpful video and it helped to set in perspective a new over the moon review by audio excellence canada. Their review did not mention any of the drawbacks that you mentioned and so this is a much-needed corrective.
I think Randy should redo this review. He really missed out. I noticed huge improvements in sound quality. And I don't have the greatest set of ears. But I do have Denefrips, Magnapan set up and it tells all. JITTER reduction really works.
Hi Dave could you tell me if it's easy to get hooked up to spotify through a phone? I have a node 2i running to separate dac, but this appears to have superior sound quality. I don't have a computer and don't want to run into hookup issues. I could then move the node to secondary system. 👍
Dave Baerg. You are correct! This excellent product is not aimed at RPi type solutions but quality 'network bridge' products like the Sonore microrendu, SOTM SMS 200 and Lindemann Limetree bridge. With the iPurifier technology built in and precision clocks with audiophile components...it is a bargain!
What about an excelent dac as the smsl vmv d1 se??? I know its excelent, i wish i had it! And for something like that the ifi streamer could be good, or eventualy directly use a computer connected to that dac for example. Thanks!
You have gotten me thinking. I have been comparing this iFi streamer with the Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra. They both seem somewhat similar in terms of functionality with the exception the Pro-Ject does provides an App. I already have a separate DAC so a streamer is all I really need and I will be streaming from Qobuz. Two things, this is less than half the price of the Pro-Ject which is great but you mention it doesn't really work natively with Qobuz, that's bad. I will probably order this from Amazon to see if I can get it to work properly knowing I will most likely return it if I can't get it to work flawlessly. Let see, the amazon reviews on this product are very poor for the most part but so they are for the Pro-Ject.
On the local forum a lot of guys have reported that the digital out is very good. In fact, some have switched from Bluesound Nodes to the iFi Zen Stream.
Zen stream +zen dac v2 vs bluesound node 2021, this is the question to answer. This streamer has Tidal connect and mqa. It is not very common for the price. I wish you talked more about the tidal connect+ mqa on this streamer. I dont know why you compare it to pi with volumio. This streamer is design for tiadal and spotify connect easy one button streaming.
This, or Volumio Primo? Similar price range except the latter also has a high quality DAC. With Zen I'd need to pair up a Modius or something and be at the same price as Primo with TWO devices. Plus the sound quality of Primo seems to make audiophiles happy.
Having said earlier on this comments thread that I might be the right user for such device I finally purchased the ifi zen stream and I am gobsmacked by its ease of use and the way it improves clarity, soundstage, and bass performance (coming from a direct laptop connection) Connected to bifrost 2 through usb and using Roon and Tidal this thing is simply amazing. Not cheap in cheap audio man terms but a very good value and truly hifi.
Roon and tidal are excellent use cases for this product.
I have two key takeaways from this video:
1) the direct integration of tidal connect, AirPlay and roon is different from most streamers
2) there wasn’t any reference to the sound quality of the Ifi streamer
3) the author assumes it’s easy to build a Pi based streamer, but made a big deal about the setup procedures
I stumbled upon the ifi stream and I love it. My setup was using a MacBook Pro to connect directly to my DAC via a long usb cable, and switching to the little ifi stream was a great decision. The unit is super easy to use, I can run tidal from my laptop, phone and iPad to the streamer. The fact I don’t have to download a streamer specific app is amazing.
I added an ifi power elite right away and I appreciate the extra power isolation, plus signal filtering capabilities of the streamer.
The rest of my system are:
- Mojo Mystique Evo Pro
- Pass Labs XA25 amp
- PMC Fact 12 speakers in a treated room
The sound is just flat out amazing and I actually very much appreciate the Ifi Stream.
Totally there with you, and thank you for spending some real time with the Zen Stream! I’ve had an Allo Digione for some time now. Albeit glitchy, it’s actually been fun to maintain it with updates, fixes, trying beta plugins, etc. It can be exceedingly frustrating at times, and I do look into options. But I keep coming back to it. It just sounds SO GOOD for the $, and seems (still) the most flexible option for the $. There are other similar transport/bridges that have been tested to better it in SQ. The Lindeman Limetree comes to mind. But -as you’ve pointed out in these scenarios - one must fork out much more to level up…and the total benefit is yet again very system dependent. Curious to see how it compares in SQ to the buggy little RPi setups it seems to be designed to target. As others have stated, your honesty and your grace is refreshing 🙏🏼
I've used the Lindemann Limetree Bridge in my system for a while now. It's been rock solid and in my system sounds better than the Node 2i I replaced it with.
Refreshing to see a well done and diplomatic negative review.
I might be the right customer for such product. I don’t know, I can’t put my finger on streaming anyway, but all I know is I don’t wanna connect my computer to my dac, wanna use my own dac and don’t wanna pay for a dac I won’t be using. I also want jitterless output. Great review. Honesty is the best policy.
A Blackberry Pi with a DAC Hat might be your ticket...
Same here!
Feels like it should be more in line with other Zen pricing, $200 as an absolute maximum. Agree it makes no sense at $400.
$200 would perfect. Basically getting A pi with Volumio and one worn ropiee. But. Who would really do that. Switch back and forth
@@cheapaudioman I agree the price a little high and not DAC output
@@angelmelo350 a lot cheaper than an Auralic
In uk it's £399. Needs to offer plug and play for that price. Also the antenna, for 400 quid wd be nice if it were not visible
@@xstensl8823 true thou, if you look at pure transport streamer, for example Lumin/Auralic/Aurender/Esoteric, they've all got pure digital out streamer, the cheapest Lumin U1 mini cost US1150
AFAIK ifi is working on an app for the Stream and since I'm looking for a streamer I'm gonna wait and see what the app is like before making a decision.
And it's a pitty you didn't comment on the sound quality (or I missed that). My CD transport sounds better than USB from my laptop and if the zen stream gets me closer to the sound of my transport, then that's a value proposition.
Im totally addicted to this channel. I may need an intervention soon.
You'll pay $20 for "audiophile" Velcro cable wraps, but a truly excellent sounding streamer with integrated S/PDIF iPurifer2 ($199), USB iPurifier3 ($109), iPower ($49), nice casework, integrated TIDAL Connect, and custom firmware is not worth $399? Interesting.
The ZEN Stream is a significant step up from my previous favorite streaming solution, Silent Angel VitOS for RPi4…and that's a fairly dramatic step up from RoPieee wrt sound quality.
Like others here, I wish you had commented on how the ZEN Stream sounds in your systems. I'm new to your channel though. Perhaps that's not the sort of thing you talk about. Still, looking forward to a follow-up video comparing the sound of the ZEN Stream to your favorite RoPieee build.
This guy clearly hasn't LISTENED to this device. I returned my Bluesound Node 2021 after listening to the Zen Stream using a Linear PSU. Never heard anything better. It's so good that I got a another for my headphones setup. This guy is not a SOUND reviewer... clearly!
The joke about audiophile velcro wraps clearly went over your head....
@@k-doggy1762 - haha. Yes. I was brand-new to the channel at the time. Now I know that this sort of thing is part of his shtick. :)
Old guy moment. I'm totally lost. For $50 more I bought my Bluesound Node on sale, it gets my Qobuz and it includes a DAC. Thanks for your honesty in the review.
Update 210723: After extensive listening comparing built in Node 2 DAC to Chord Mojo, it is very obvious that the Mojo is a hefty step up in detail, dynamics, sound stage, imaging, and not the least, pure listening joy. Absolutely.
** ATTENTION ! ** An annoying node 2 problem: Alot lower output volume than CD player and turntable.
"Fixed volume" and "No ToneControl" in settings does improve, BUT still much much lower volume than CD etc.
VERY unpractical, and an ever present risk of swapping source without thinking, almost smoking your ears when going from Node 2 to CD . CRAPPY!!
Original Comment:
You are sooo right. Bought a Node 2 used for 250$ today, and plugged my Chord Mojo in as supposedly higher quality DAC, even if I suspect the built in is just fine....
With latest software in the Node 2, it does both TIDAL Connect and Spotify Connect like a charm. And speaking of software and general user friendliness, the Bluesound Node:s are very, very easy to get going, and eliminate most moments of frustration.
@@vespass225 Congratulations. I'm a keep it simple guy. You might benefit from a different Coax cable depending on the compatibility of the you use now. I use a rather expensive Cable from my CD to my DAC but for streaming, I'm perfectly happy with a Mogami 2964 digital cable I picked up on Amazon or Ebay for $40, a fraction of that my other cable cost. Just something to play with. Your mileage may vary. I also found a Kimber Kable model 30 for $95 to be an excellent coax.
@@fletchermunson6225 Thanks for respons! I am just now into the questioning if a better coax cable would influence sound at all, or more make me feel better. What is your experience?
@@vespass225 I'm a cable geek. No doubt about it. I use a Kimber Kable D60 silver cable in my system because I blundered into it on a deal. As I mentioned their 30 is a great bargain as is the Mogami. Some people don't believe a cheap cable like the Mogami can be good. It is. I got covid bored and listened to a dozen COAX cables and I think it bested The Addio quest Carbon, the Nordost cheap Coax, Blue Jeans, Monoprice etc. The Canare at the same price was also good but that sucker is STIFF. I had a brief listen to the Gotham Digital cable and it was also cheap and promising. The nice thing about bottom feeding on cables is you can try a lot and no big financial risk. Get them on Amazon and return them within 30 days if they don't pan out. I actually have a spare for sale cheap with RCA at one ends and BNC on the other if that is something you could use and are in the states.
@@fletchermunson6225 Thanks for tip and offer. I am covid bored, but not in the states, but in Gothenburg, Sweden. I have since we left office for working from home in beginning of March 2020, bought so many things over internet, mostly audio equipment, that I don't really want to sum up what it has cost. Lots of fun though. My first two tube HiFi amps ever. Dreamt about one when young in the early eighties, but they were silly expensive for my modest salary of that time. Got the Reisong A10 for New Years Eve 2020, dirt cheap from china-hifi.com. 270$ incl. shipping. Line Magnetic LM 216iA this May. Both very nice. Will try the Mogami you proposed.
I just got an ifi zen stream and use a google mesh network and have had no problems so far - set up was very easy. I’m using it as a Roon endpoint and also for airplay streaming from my phone. This review scared me but so far I’m happy with it!
Do you find it gets crazy hot?
I purchased it and sound great. I can put my usb key with DSD format records and it's super! Tidal with MQA gives my records a real blast!!! Connect it with my Denafrips Ares 2 gives rebirth to my prefered records!!! Thanks Ifi, Denafrips, Hegel, Tidal and Focal for this!!!
Sorry new to your channel here. Actually your review dosent cover the only 1 thing I am looking for. How does it SOUND compared to other products like the bluesound, raspberry pi product or more high end streamers like innuos/melco? Thanks!
Take a look at Audio Excellence's video comparing it to the Node.
The folks at Audio Excellence (RUclips) are saying that the Zen Stream sounds much much better than the new NODE (both using presumably the same external DAC). It’ll be interesting to do a comparison if you still have the Stream around. For now, I remain skeptical as we are dealing with differences at the bit level rather than at an analog output stage. If it does sound better than the NODE, then this is the Zen’s value proposition.
@@foblivio have both do like the zen better , cleaner , more accurate…but not getting tidal connect to work , on tidal it states streaming but not being picked up by the zen , have to use airplay
A streamer should be "bit perfect", so as far as tcp/ip streaming is concerned all streamers should sound the same. This changes if you "pipe" sound through lossy bluetooth protocols. All bets are off in this case.
@@juanmillaruelo7647 that's fine then.
It is an exceptionally clean streamer with a USB out for people who can't be bothered to tinker with Pi and clean power supplies, hats etc. There is nothing cleaner for the money that you can buy off the shelf and that is the point of this product and it's price point. Of course, to be able to appreciate the difference your gear needs to be revealing enough and the target audience is someone who is going to use it with a Zen DAC and some 500$ plus headphones. Z always says it- you can rarely hear the difference between DACs on a speaker system but put headphones and it shall be revealed in seconds...
Great Review! Your honesty is very refreshing. Bravo Zulu!
I was in the market for buying one, I'm so.pleased I watched this review and probably saved myself some disappointment. At the moment I'm just taking the optical out from an old Chromcast Audio and putting it through a new Topping Dac, both running off a 5 volt battery power supply and the sound is pretty damn good. Thanks for your honest review.
Great review Randy, you and I were the first ones! To me, the Zen streamer is a finished "raspberry pie" much like the microrendu or the sotm 200 ultra. Not everyone is daring or smart enough (speaking for a friend 😁) to put together a raspberry into a box, etc. This is a purist product, one that provides galvanic isolation and allows you to upgrade your dac or computer while keeping the network bridge usability. But I admit that the focus of my review was roon and I am just elated that for the first time, ifi has embraced roon. And 400 bucks is much better than my SOTM 200 ultra.
Hey, man! I’m glad you liked it. I just find it strange that ifi does dacs and headphone amps do well and then ventures out into a streamer that is specific to certain individuals with certain abilities. So it’s further segmenting and already small market. I also didn’t like they they used lack of features as a “feature”. This product just isn’t for me. Maybe if I could hear a blind test and experience the difference it would be different for me. But if someone wants to do Roon why not just get a rasbpi with ropieee and a better power supply and a zen DAC for less. This product just doesn’t make sense to me but I’m probably too dumb to understand why.
@@cheapaudioman it comes with a very decent psu and it comes certified and pré configured for roon, as per the little selector thingy. Therefore I'm the dumb one because I don't know the software that you you just mentioned 😩
@@DeAudiofilosyLocos ha. You’re not stupid. I’m glad you like it. It was just a little cantankerous for me and that’s something I’m used to with Rasb pis but didn’t expect it from a “finished” product. They mentioned that it competes with 1K products and I wish they would tell me which one so I could compare them.
@@cheapaudioman the raspberry pi is considered noisy by the "high browed", that's where the microrendu came in, because it was designed for sound, unlike the raspberry pi. Then the sotm and others as well as the bluesound, but I agree the price could be better. However it offers wifi and the Rasp. Doesn't. I currently have the sotm 200 ultra and it is not cheap.
" I cannot tell a lie". Kudos 🤘
🖖
Too expensive for what it is… rather put a 100$ more for a proper streamer or much less for a Pi… don’t imagine they will sell much of these 💭
I came here for a sound comparison.
Personally, I'm not fazed by the software essentially being a Pi. Sound and value are the most important to me.
Please review the sound output compared to the Pi and Bluesound node 2i
It’s on its way back to Ifi. I didn’t AB them against each other into the same DAC. But I didn’t hear anything significant enough to notice it was anything than marginally better or worse than a pi
@@cheapaudioman
Cool, thanks for the reply.
Would you say the node 2i is generally a better sounding streamer (dac excluded)?
@@aaronsadventures23 I seriously doubt that this streamer can sound better than a RbPi with an Allo DigiOne Signature HAT, for the same price, and it is sent to you already assembled with the OS of your choice, almost plug and play, superb sound.
This is an overview.
We need a review how it sounds, how the app works, testing streaming, various pre setups etc etc
The rest is..... talk!
Only issue is that when someone only deals with cheap audio , he/her may not be able to recognise a components sounding several leagues higher. In my experience, the Zen streamer is that product.
Don’t make the mistake of assuming that because someone uses “cheap” in their handle that they only know about crappy products. I’ve not observed your bias to be correct.
@@DavidMontgomery1 When the reviewer puts the bluesound node in the top spot, you know there is a problem. I have tested quite a few entry level streamers including the node and the zen. The zen came on top of all streamers tested and the node was no better than my Mcbook although super functional. So I base my assumptions not on my intellect, like so many people, but on my listening impressions.
@@lesarnolfinis6775 You’re trying to make a definitive, no-exceptions rule for a question that is ultimately a matter of personal taste. I dispute the ability of you, or anyone, to do that. All we can offer are our opinions, hopefully backed by reason, intellect, and experience.
@@DavidMontgomery1 "All we can offer are our opinions, hopefully backed by reason, intellect, and experience": exactly what I am doing, thx.
I stand by what I said, in his review he does not talk about how the Zen sounds; just about the fact that he does not get the product which just offers a digital out. In my experience the quality of the streamer is nearly as important as the quality of the dac. So I think he did not get the product because he did not test it in the right environment to see where it shines. Now that he has a Denafrips Pontus, may be he would get the value proposition!
Like most consumers, I'd choose the Node over this in a heartbeat. And I own 2 iFi products already.
Not even close. I have a node 2i and was about to upgrade and went with if. I have a DAC, I don't need the node. I don't need multiple ones for rooms, so I don't need the node. The ifi is less money and has more built into it as most audiophile people could care less about the DAC in the node and have ones much better.
Woa.... First review I've seen. Go Randy!
Oh.... Wait...... That's just saved me some money.
Honesty builds trust. Throw in the superb quirky humour and that’s it... you've hooked me in big time. Best audio gear channel out there.
Except it'd have been nice, in an audio review, to talk about the sound.
@@morespinach9832 Except this doesn't really produce any sound on its own. The quality is going to depend on the gear that you pair with it. The Zen Stream is essentially just going to act as a DDC and streamer end-point. So it'll deal with any noise or jitter issues you would normally get over USB from a direct connection with a PC to your DAC, as an example. How much will this affect your sound? Depends on how much noise, if any, that you had previously to this. At the very least it won't degrade audio quality.
@@Sazabi69 You state that "this doesn't really produce any sound on it's own," but then you go on to mention that it might affect the sound. And THEN you say that "At the very least it won't degrade audio quality."
I don't know what to make of your comment. Are you saying that there are no audible differences between any streamers? Because Audio Excellence Canada feels differently, and that the iFi Zen Stream clearly outshines the Bluesound Node in reference to its sound quality (using the same outboard DAC). ruclips.net/video/PP1Zsh078nU/видео.html
@@cablebrain9691 I'm talking from the point of using this solely as a streamer to a separate DAC, because the Stream is not a DAC, in that sense it does not produce any sound. It's merely a transport. I'm not saying there are no audible differences between any streamers. Not sure why you're painting this as if I'm viewing the Zen Stream in a negative light or even disagreeing with Audio Excellence Canada? I'd even agree with them, but I haven't been able to compare the two units personally.
According to them, clearly the Stream does something better than the Node. What makes it better may be all kinds of things. It may be the power supply, the iPurifier, less USB noise or any kind of combination thereof. It also depends on if you had any issues with your system previously. Like in my own case, one of my PC builds was rather noisy over USB. Something like the Stream could fix it, or any other DDC / streamer for that matter. The result is going to vary in the end, but my original point still stands, the ifi Zen Stream does not produce sound on its own, it transports it.
For sake of clarification, I should have used "shouldn't" instead of "won't" (degrade audio quality).
@@Sazabi69 I did understand that you meant it solely as a streamer. But even your closing sentence mentioned that it "won't degrade audio quality." It certainly can, if it adds jitter due to noise within the streamer. But as important is what it does to clean-up jitter from its input (re-clocking, galvanic isolation), and to keep it correct all the way to its output. Also, none of one's audio components produce audio until the signal reaches the speakers or headphones (except for a turntable if you put your ear up to it).
I don't think that I've stated anything that would indicate what I believe your opinion to be concerning the iFi Zen Stream.
I think we're talking semantics here. We're basically on the same page. I just didn't want anyone walking away from your statement thinking that a streamer can't ultimately affect the sound of their systems. All's good. 🙂
P.S.- I'm using a Chromecast Audio with an iFi iPurifier connected between it and a Topping E30 DAC, streaming Tidal, so I'm very curious as to how much better something like the iFi Zen Stream might be. I'm also looking to upgrade all of my other electronics. I'm searching for that bang-for-the-buck sweet-spot, new or used. Advancements are coming so quickly that it's difficult to know when to buy or how much to spend.
You can add a Hard Drive of Music to the USB input of the ifi Stream
Owning both ifi Zen Stream and BlueSound Node, the ifi Zen Stream is simply one of those products that puts sound quality over everything, especially OS. All the ifi products I’ve bought over the years have always given some degree of improvement in the sound quality of my digital music. The ifi Zen Stream is no exception. Of course the rest of your system is going to have to be revealing enough to take advantage of the added sound quality. Are your speakers set up correctly, quality amplifiers, room treatment, clean AC, quality cables(SSSSSS), and high quality lossless source will help you realize 1’s and 0’s when it comes to real time streaming of digital audio are not simply 1s and 0s. Everything matters, and Your source is paramount. General purpose PC’s are electrically noisy streamers. That’s where the ifi Zen Stream comes to the rescue. Despite its OS teething issues, you won’t find a more transparent holographic music streamer under $400.
Here are my experiences after 1 hour with the device: Set up is indeed a bit confusing. You have to connect first via ethernet and update to the latest software before attempting to connect via wi-fi. The instructions and set up video should be improved. BUT, once it's up and running I can say it's definitely a big improvement over the Bluesound Node 2i in terms of sound quality: clearer and more detailed, with a deeper soundstage, and just more engaging. I'm running the Zen Stream into a Denafrips Ares ii via USB, whereas with the Bluesound Node 2i I was using the coaxial output from the Bluesound. One user on a different page left a comment that he thought the USB output from the Zen Stream didn't sound very good but that has not been my experience at all.
so q's for you i was going to buy this streamer and connect to the pro-ject pre box s2(dac) usb in...but it says for pc hook up only.... are they saying no way this would work??? again ifi stream usb out to s2 usb in....
@@jedknutson8373 Hi Jed. I don’t see why usb output from this streamer or any other streamer would be different than usb output from a computer (the streamer is essentially a small dedicated computer). But if you’re worried about it, ask project as it would be an issue with your DAC.
I’m having no problems with my Zen stream. It’s categorized as a transport. Meaning, all it does is pass the unaltered digital stream “DIRECTLY” from your Wi-Fi router to the outputs in the back. Did you get the firmware update installed? It’s also important to know that your controlling device is essentially only telling Tidal what to play (send). The “stream” goes from Tidal’s servers to your Wi-Fi router then directly to the zen stream and not back through your phone. That’s why you can’t control the volume from your phone. And that’s a good thing for audio purity because Apple uses the inferior AAC CODEC to the ones available from Tidal and others through the streamer if using airplay. The point is: don’t use airplay! Your paying for hi-res audio. Let the streamer and your music service do their jobs so you are in fact hearing hi-res.
I also agree with you that your Wi-Fi is either slow or you have some interference from metallic objects or electrically generated magnetic fields from other components nearby.
I’m using the Tidal app on my iPhone or iPad. Interestingly it appears that a short time after music is selected and playing, if no additional music selections are made the app will separate the phone from the Tidal server. But all selected music in queue continues to play unless you reconnect the app to the server to add or edit selections. All without interrupting play. I can close the app and or turn my iPad or iPhone off and all music in my queue continues to play. Small price to pay for top level streaming at this price.
I output directly to my Cambridge CXA81 through an Audioquest Carbon USB A to B .75 meter cable. That’s it. No Roon. I feel Roon is an expensive duplication of function. I also tried the s/pdif digital coaxial output but used a stranded cable and the sound was slightly harsh and lacked strong bass. I haven’t tried a high quality s/pdif yet but the USB cable improved sound quality significantly.
Zen Stream delivers good Clean, punchy bass & well defined staging. Although I use Tidal I leave the zen mode selector in position 1. I think the switch may be to speed device separation from the server once play is initiated. Ifi’s explanation of the Tidal connect position 3 is ”This is the setting for you”. Not very informative. I suspect tidal app activates separation without any user prompt. I also suspect that the separation facilitates less server clutter to free up more user aces to maximizing server stability during high demand periods.
You wrote 5 months ago: "I’m using the Tidal app on my iPhone or iPad. Interestingly it appears that a short time after music is selected and playing, if no additional music selections are made the app will separate the phone from the Tidal server. But all selected music in queue continues to play unless you reconnect the app to the server to add or edit selections. All without interrupting play. I can close the app and or turn my iPad or iPhone off and all music in my queue continues to play. Small price to pay for top level streaming at this price."
I have had similar experiences with my WiiM Mini Streamer when controlling it via PC. If I'm doing too many things on my PC, Tidal will soon disconnect from it and "lose its place" yet the music queue keeps playing. King of aggravating but kind of cool at the same time.
If you have a high end system and want to play Tidal this is the cleanest best audio performing way to do it
Taylor's cable wrap system is "tailor" made for your satisfaction
Yeah... I'll stick with my RPi solution for Roon. RPi4+Ropieee+HiFiBerry DAC Pro2+MicroSD+Case... $160 on Amazon. Easy, looks good, works great. Takes a half hour or so to assemble, flash, and set up. Once you've done it, it's a breeze. Got 4 of them scattered around the house now... oh, and the HiFiBerry DAC is excellent.
Super honest review. Great job man.
Thank Randy for telling it like it is. I try to always remember that they can't all be homeruns, sometimes it a swing and a miss. It may help bring the improved version to market quicker. CHEAPER
Great video, Randy. iFi Zen Stream sounds like too much work for $400. For a little more $$$ you can get a 2019 Apple Mac Mini to stream with, and control it with an iPhone or iPad.
I just returned the ifi zen because my macbook running Audirvana and Denafrips dac sounded better to my ears. I think it’s all about the implementation even if many reviewers prefer streamers vs Macbook or Mac mini🤔
I don't know brother, I think there's more here than meets the initial eye, and initial offering, but we will have to see how it plays out. I'm thinking you are 75-80 percent right on your call but... There is an app coming called Stream-iFi-app, and it being open source and not tied to anything may have huge benefits in the near (or distant) future!
Also I cannot tell you how many times a month I get asked for direction or outright "can you build me a Pi" questions, I think we all have to remember back to before we finally built or watched our first Pi being put together and Loaded with whatever suited ya! They may have found a market here for a product that doesn't "really" have a master, or owe anyone anything in the streaming world. Only time will tell!!
Cheers Bro!!
Volumio’s own device is based on the Asus Tinker Board so may be a new case same device scenario
Just buy a new basic iPad for $329, hook it up to your ifi Zen DAC, download Spotify, Tidal, etc. app, easy login, and listen… that is what I am doing right now. For portability, I throw the iPad into my shoulder bag, with a Dragonfly and IEMs. And when I am not streaming I have a great tablet!
Hey Randy... I too had problems with my extended wifi network, until I bought the Google system. Once up, it just works. Roon, whatever... it works.
I am working on the review as well right now, also head scratching. I'd rather pay $400 for the Zen Dac than the Stream tbh
Thanks for the video, would have been nice a sound comparison with other streamers as well as describing your set up. I heard this product sounds way better than blue sound. But I understand your interface criticism. In my case I only stream tidal so a product like this is probably a decent option if it offers great sound quality.
It is great for tidal, works flawlessly.
I have one. Stream Tidal Connect. Simply the best. I've got Denon Heos, Arylic s50pro. This one is miles above.
You dont get or coz you clearly haven't really HEARD it. Any good source takes a decent system to show it's true colors. For those reading this, do try to it with a Linear PSU...you'll thank yourself for getting this. I immediately returned my Bluesound Node 2021 after listening to this...never heard anything better! Got a second unit for my headphones setup...this sounds that good!
Love the Ifi product line, the only bad thing I could possibly say is their buttons feel so loose and flimsy though. Makes it feel like a super cheap product when you interact with it which is a big shame given the quality anodizing on the metal body and the solid knob.
An honest review from his perspective. I really wanted the available USB on the IFI Zen out for my DAC, and other reviewer(s) have praised the sound output. I have a great DAC, but it has a limited number of inputs so I need to use the USB input it has, and I have heard USB (when properly cabled) has great sound. I currently own a Node 2i and feel this will be an upgrade. Have one ordered, can't wait to get it.
Any update since getting it? Upgrade over the Node 2i?
@@Oak-n-Iron Yes, I have got the USB working and it is working well into my Prima Luna DAC. I love the sound from this unit allthou it is more difficult to find when it loses the internet for any length of time. I think it is a good buy...
May I know does the Zen Stream support MQA first Unfold / Soft Decode ?
This is my first time viewing your channel. I’m a little surprised at your assessment of a product’s “value”. I have no experience with this product, but I sit in front of my system to enjoy its SOUND, not to contemplate its connectivity.
No connection…no sound! 🙂
At the end of the day, the price point makes you wish it was a Bluesound Node without a DAC. It makes you wonder if Bluesound would ever make such a device or if they think it might cannibalize sales of their Node? As Randy said, at its price point of $400, there needs to be some demonstration that it is, in fact, better than a Raspberry Pi 4B with an Allo Digione Signature Hat which comes in at $402 with a Shanti Dual Linear Power Supply and acrylic case.
Both fellows at Audio Excellence say t sounds as good as 1500 streamers.....they played it through the dac in a Hegal 3## amplifier...they also used an expensive connection from Zen / or Node to the Hegal.....sloop in a direct comparison, on an revealing system, the Zen sounded better hands down than the new bluesound node.......on my low/ midfi system....probably couldn't t hear the difference......
Waiting for some $300 used bluesound nodes to hit the market....
@@galessi1226 the video I watched had them comparing it to the Node 2i, not the new Node....And I'd take ONE single positive (or negative) review with a big grain of salt...
Besides, this is the "cheapaudioman" channel, not the "let's spend $500 on voodoo cables and unicorns" channel.
If those guys could hear such a difference, then more power to them, but on "reasonably" priced gear that sonic difference is probably lost if at all present.
Instead of using a Hegel, feed it into a $400 Denon or Emotiva amp using Amazon Basics cables and see if at the end of the day is it "better"...
Randy, during your deep dive into streamers, have you looked at the Audio engine b-fi? Seems to check a lot of boxes, and is a good price.
I asked a bricks and mortar store about it (they do carry it as one of their options). It doesn't do gapless on Spotify....That's a deal breaker for many people...
How does the USB Out sound vs S/PDIF Out?? For that price they should’ve thrown in a freebie iPower X..
Thanks for this. When I first heard of this product I had huge buyer's remorse for my Audiolab 6000n streamer. Love the way it sounds, but hate that I can only use Amazon HD via DTS playfi. However after your review I don't feel so bad! Begs the question though, why is there no 'Amazon Music HD connect' like Spotify and tidal have? Also, surely you can build a decent 'blank canvas' hi-fi streamer with decent usability that doesn't cost the earth?
I use an old iPad mini plugged into my DAC via USB. Works just fine….👍
Do you use the internal DAC or external DAC with the 6000n. I hear it has a great power supply in it.
@@dynodin81 I have the 6000a amp as well, so use the DAC in that (digital coax from 6000N to 6000a). The DACs in both are the same, but if you have both Audiolab recommends you do it that way.
I love the honesty and directness of this review. Any chance you'll review the Allo Boss2 streamer+dac - $150-$200? Yes it's RPI based but not so do-it-yourself.
Great introduction to the new streamer! Keep up the good work!
Just discovered your CH recently, subscribed. 👍
You have 95THOUSAND subs!?? That's substantial IMO.
.... ~92THOUSAND.
Great vídeo! I have a médium cost AVR with no streaming capabilities and been looking to solution. Since you are familiar to Raspberys, what do you think about this product: HiFiBerry DAC2 HD?
Hey, sorry for the noob question, but do I even need a dac if I have a Raspberry Pi Streamer with HifiBerry OS and DAC2 HD Top Hat on it? Would it do any good to me?
so... In terms of sound quality , that is no big different between Zen and Ri 4 with Volumio ? i am not a fans in "Digital is Digital", i always hear the different when i am in Hi-end AV show...i am looking a good digital transport....what do you recommend ? Thank you
Nice review. SVS Soundbase you can also catch for under $400 open-box. It does everything...that I need, and I never ever thought I'd get a "streamer".
Big fan of your pragmatic and credible reviews. Wish i saw this Zen Stream review earlier. Although it sounds fine ( probably thanks to Geshelly J2 to Luxman R-117 to Klipsch Chorus2 and Yam NS-890s) this device snd app or chronically problematic. I experienced the same irritation/frustration you mentioned re the wifi set up. My download measured >300 mbps & upload >90mbps but it would not connect (used 5 and 2.4 ghz too). No issues with other wifi products in same area ( occulus, sonos…). It only works via ethernet. The app freezes up and or slow to respond. Since iFi doesn’t offer a phone or chat option, I sent the formal customer service request the second day of ownership ( after hours of futility and frustration) with photos and graphs. Site advises 2 day response, it has been 4 full business days and No Response. Ready to return and purchase Bluesound newest Node. Bummed.
When using Tidal Connect, will Zen Stream do the first level MQA decode and pass the Zen DAC v1 for second level MQA unfolding?
Good question. Wouldn't be an issue with v2 Zen DAC
I am using a dac WITHOUT MQA ready, can the Zen Stream do the first level mqa decode ?
Die the ifi zen DAC have a version with a coaxial or optical in? I can only find them with a USB in.
I wish it did. That would be a great product. I've asked for that many times and I know consumers have asked for that as well.
I wanna know can we add a screen to it by any chance ...atleast a Tablet kinda??
this was a rather cavalier review. what you failed to mention was all the propriety technology that IFI has incorporated in the Zen Stream, you where amiss in comparing this to a Pi therefore. please read the features listed for this product on the IFI website. EMI noise is a constant and verifiable issue that plagues computer audiophiles. IFI is a leader in this field in addressing this problem. it will be interesting to see the subsequent reviews of this product that will delve deeper into its capabilities. until then i am keeping an open mind.
Which streamer would be a great option for Roon and Spotify? Cheaper than the iFi but with a better quality than the raspberry??? 🤔🤔🤔
I can say that the Stream is a step forward in sound quality compared to my mac book pro used as a streammer. Its clearer, deeper and wider to my ears.
Do you still have your Stream and happy with it? I'm about to order one..I've had a couple streamers already but looking for better sound quality. I'm told the Zen is the best quality for the money.
@@NosEL34 yes, I still have it and I love it! To get the best sound quality I must suggest to upgrade the power source and used with a decent quality ethernet cable and a jitter filter on the usb output and a good usb cable 👍🏻
@@rlakes Right on, thanks for the tips. Glad you are still enjoying your Zen Stream.
@@rlakes if you don't mind me asking, which power supply did you go with? Did you stick with an Ifi brand or try something else? Thanks 👍
@@rlakes I have a couple decent dacs I could use but my plan is to use it with my RME ADI-2 Dac, this will be strictly for streaming so the RME is a great preamp as well. I'll probably just order the Zen with the "cheaper" Ifi Power 2 model. If I feel a need to upgrade I can do it later down the road. Thanks for all your feedback, I appreciate it
If the coax and/or usb outputs are really high quality and at the same level than a PI2AES... then it could be a good deal.
You’re right… a good deal at £200 not £399 😖
@@hottipmedia7191 You're right! In fact I bought the Zen Stream and I am really happy with it 😁👍
I must have missed something because I use Volumio on my miniDSP SHD and it does Roon as well as my Allo DigiOne. What is the difference in performance there?
Edit: I watched the whole video, I think I know what you're referring to here. I had to assign my miniDSP a permanent IP address on my router and configure it in the Volumio UI. Before I did that the miniDSP/Volumio would drop out after an hour or two and I'd have to reset the router to get it back. I've had zero drop-outs since I assigned a permanent IP.
This ifi Stream would be good for adding to an Audiolab M-Dac Plus / Pre-amp connected to a pair of Adam Audio T5V Active Monitors for a good Music & TV setup
I'm planning to get a t5v as well. Does it require sub for near field use? I listen to very little electronic music. So it's basically for quartet jazz, rock and soundtrack mostly.
@@prabinpaudel5572
I listen to mainly Blues Rock bands Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd etc and Adam Audio T5V sound great, there is plenty of Bass from them l lower the Bass a bit in the room that they are used in. I listen about 10ft away for tv use so not just for near field use
@@Music.Movies.67 well I feel like I would be happy with it.. Thanks will inform if I buy it :D
Will this work on RUclips music?
Also does this use airplay
Hi, I came to see the Denon DNP-800 and the Marantz NS6006, both I believe having a DAC and being at around $700. Your thoughts on these products and if they fall short in certain aspects (app?) that would make them less attractive. I am looking to build a good Hi-Fi system (willsenton R8, about $800 paired with maybe kplisch 600 speakers, about $650, and now I am scratching my head with the streamer and DAC thing that Jack the total price up....
I hope you can review the newest Bluesound Node, at some point. I am curious about the new DAC they have, as well as any other added/improved features.
The ifi zen stream using the coaxial output with the selection switche at the back in the first position, and using tidal connect sounds amazing. Much bettet than any of the node streamers
What dac do you use?
Any comments on the Dayton Audio HTA100 TA ? Looks great , how does it SOUND ?
Can we please have a review of the Audioengine B-Fi Streamer with DAC and digital outs for $189. (NOT the B1 Bluetooth unit) as a DACless and all in one unit. Thanks
Great Review, I want to get the Ifi DAC V2 as my computer is really near my audio system. And then if need be, get a streamer later...but doesn't seem to be many options for just stream other than whatever Minecraft, woodshed thing that Pi thing is. Thanks!
Unless its coax or USB out sound significantly better than RaspPi based streamers this iFi makes no sense at 400usd ...
From what I have been reading , it's coax or USB sounds superior to Node.
I wish it had Amazon Music HD Ultra , does Ifi plan to add Amazon HD Ultra to this unit?
@@kdomster9141 Unfortunately Amazon is the problem. They will not let anyone see their code other than Bluesound or Heos/PlayFi. Stupid of them as they don’t have any Amazon products that can offer the full Amazon Music HD service. 😖
@@steven2809 Agreed
I use the Ifi Bluetooth device from accessing a PC in my "Man Cave". The Bluetooth glitches occasionally. So I was thinking of going with a WIFI device to my NAS. I was thinking of going with a Audio Engine B-Fi which is $189. Is there a better alternative. Is that alternative the new Ifi?
If it’s as good a product as my ifi zen phono, I’m in.
I don't get this review, because it isn't a review. The selling point seems to be a better signal out, so I'd expect a comparison of a Pi4 and this one into a DAC and comments on the difference in sound quality, if there is any. That would have been a review.
exactly, lets see how the SQ compares connected to the same 3 external DACs against the Bluesound Node and a Auralic G1 transport. could be a giant killer?
I currently use IMAC 2015 connected via USB to iFi NEO idsd. Would I hear a sound quality improvment if I were to add this to my chain and hook this up to my DAC instead of using the Computer as a streamer?
I am considering this product to be my dedicated streamer instead of the DTS Play-Fi based streamer inside Audiolab 6000A Play which cannot play gapless. I am sure one could get used to the gaps, but if 400$ can save me from going nuts, I am happy to pay.
They are talking about chromecast that will be coming in a future firmware upgrade. Will that be the same as chromecast audio. In that case, I will consider it.
I have a zen DAC, only USB in, what good is an optimized streamer output that won't go into my DAC. Curious if the USB sounds just as good
Bloody love your reviews so thanks, would you possibly do an update to comment on how it actually sounds vs other streamers. Maybe the value is in how it sounds 👍👍
Well, it has high quality components, like a very accurate power supply and a very accurate Femto reclocking circuit that kills all jitter. This defines most part of the price level and will raise signal accuracy to a very high standard.
Just picked on up second hand and I had zero issues with WIFI dropouts -- even when streaming DSD256 roon only switch set. My unit is in a bedroom for late night listening over a Google mesh network. An access point is also in the bedroom.
This was an extremely helpful video and it helped to set in perspective a new over the moon review by audio excellence canada. Their review did not mention any of the drawbacks that you mentioned and so this is a much-needed corrective.
I think Randy should redo this review. He really missed out. I noticed huge improvements in sound quality. And I don't have the greatest set of ears. But I do have Denefrips, Magnapan set up and it tells all. JITTER reduction really works.
Hi Dave could you tell me if it's easy to get hooked up to spotify through a phone? I have a node 2i running to separate dac, but this appears to have superior sound quality. I don't have a computer and don't want to run into hookup issues. I could then move the node to secondary system. 👍
@@firebladeclements I didn't use my phone. Sorry
Dave Baerg. You are correct! This excellent product is not aimed at RPi type solutions but quality 'network bridge' products like the Sonore microrendu, SOTM SMS 200 and Lindemann Limetree bridge. With the iPurifier technology built in and precision clocks with audiophile components...it is a bargain!
@12:09 when you pull your ear, was that the sign to get you the hell out of there?
What about an excelent dac as the smsl vmv d1 se??? I know its excelent, i wish i had it! And for something like that the ifi streamer could be good, or eventualy directly use a computer connected to that dac for example. Thanks!
One question...can i use it playing music from plex ?
Hi Randy, when will you review the IOTAVX NP3? Eagerly waiting.
You have gotten me thinking. I have been comparing this iFi streamer with the Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra. They both seem somewhat similar in terms of functionality with the exception the Pro-Ject does provides an App. I already have a separate DAC so a streamer is all I really need and I will be streaming from Qobuz. Two things, this is less than half the price of the Pro-Ject which is great but you mention it doesn't really work natively with Qobuz, that's bad. I will probably order this from Amazon to see if I can get it to work properly knowing I will most likely return it if I can't get it to work flawlessly. Let see, the amazon reviews on this product are very poor for the most part but so they are for the Pro-Ject.
On the local forum a lot of guys have reported that the digital out is very good. In fact, some have switched from Bluesound Nodes to the iFi Zen Stream.
Some say Zen only better than Node on coax out not usb out.
Great review! I just got a SMSL dac and have bought this stream. Does anyone know what would serve as preamp for volume control?
Just when I start to wonder if you love everything, you throw this one out there. 😂
Serious question, will this streamer make music sound better than the aux cable plugged into my iPad? I’ve never had a streamer before.
No looking back/music elevates
you can also hook up a external hd to this. best to keep the DAC option open.
But how does it sound?
Zen stream +zen dac v2 vs bluesound node 2021, this is the question to answer.
This streamer has Tidal connect and mqa. It is not very common for the price. I wish you talked more about the tidal connect+ mqa on this streamer.
I dont know why you compare it to pi with volumio. This streamer is design for tiadal and spotify connect easy one button streaming.
This, or Volumio Primo? Similar price range except the latter also has a high quality DAC. With Zen I'd need to pair up a Modius or something and be at the same price as Primo with TWO devices. Plus the sound quality of Primo seems to make audiophiles happy.