I saw Ed Kawak guest posing at a show in Preston, England during my student days in the mid 80s. It was an epiphany, the first time seeing a man’s frame totally full of muscle. I just couldn’t tell if he had a skeleton 😂😂 simply incredible. I expected him to shake up the Olympian order, but he came nowhere 😳 IFBB were clearly favoured a different look and perhaps his conditioning was never 100%. IMO a top 10 genetic freak ever, He was superior to even his Lebanese countryman Samir Bannout - 1983 Mr O winner, and a great poser too.
@@Pulsonar Yes Kawak was INSANELY built. His muscles actually seemed to go beyond his joints...he was so dense and full of muscle...he was unbelievable! Yes Top 10 genetic freak..dude was carved out of rock. Glad you were able to see him! Samir's back was PHENOMENAL...right up there on a list of "best bodyparts of all time"..but Kawak man...them legs. Loved 70's and 80's bodybuilding.
@@leevancleef358 Yes, both Ed and Samir had unusually longest muscle bellies, but as you mentioned, Ed’s seem to go beyond his joints and overlap other body parts. Next to ‘Quadfather’ Platz, Ed had perhaps the 2nd best Quads of the 80s. They were never striated like Platzs but the Vastus lateralis/medialis hoods of muscle draped around his tiny knee caps actually surpassed Platz. The man rolled on stage and from one pose to another like he actually had wheels 😂 Now Samirs back was incredible, packed to the brim with dense and ripped details, and the first time I ever saw the Christmas tree pose that made him more famous, that was his freaky specialty. The man looked like he deliberately built the flag of Lebanon into his lower back 😂
@@Pulsonar You know your stuff Pulsonar - I agree 1000%....I have lifted for years and have been known to have very good genetics (for upper body) Unfortunately legs not so much...but the True genetic FREAKS have triceps that seem to hang over elbows and the Teardrops hanging over the knee...what an amazing look...its like the muscle is SO dense it engulfs and protects the joints by doing all the work by itself and limiting joint use. Unbelievable.
Francis Benfatto is the most underrated of all time in my book. His physique was perfect, his posing was perfect and this was all done naturally and under 200 pounds. The guy deserves our respect. Great video!👍
Francis was NOT natty. If you believe he was natty then you believe he had the absolute best genetics in the world because there's not a natural physique today that matches his.
@Marx max Muscle You're doing a very good job bro, reminding us about all those forgotten bodybuilders who most guy's in here don't know them except the purists of the game lol... Thx.
Very fun video! Thanks. I’d throw in a few more from the 80s… Tim Belknap, Rory Leidermeyer and (not sure this counts) Casey Viator (under-appreciated or one of “those who didn’t reach their potential”?)…
Ron Teufel looked great also, I had a poster from muscle mag of him doing a most muscular pose on a boat dock, dude had a super lean physique for the 80's also underrated imo
In no particular order... Rick Wayne, Harold Poole, Leroy Colbert, Phil Hill, Aaron Baker, Nimrod King, Ron Love, Marko Savolainen, Roland Cziurlok, Jim Quinn, Francis Benfatto, Franco Santoriello, Melvin Anthony, Toney Freeman
@powerofme7144 I trained at the same gym as Franco in the late 80s. We all knew that Cybergenics was a bunch of BS and that Franco was on everything. He did seem helpful though and gave me a few tips. I was 18 and training near him a few times and he said " hey kid here's a tip for you" mostly training form and exercise ideas. I saw that now he is doing well on a Dave palumbo interview.
@@wildmike951 That’s cool. Yeah the marketing to make money off impressionable youngsters. I got to train with Shawn Ray back in 2002. He’s pretty cool compared to his asshole persona.
Good video. I definitely remember many of them but I do believe you missed out on, maybe 2 unbelievable bodies (my opinion of course). Gary Strydom and Aaron Baker
"Roland Cziurlock" what a great physique ?!!! Great back, tremendous arms and the conditioning !!! I know you didn't mention everyone but here's some underrated dude you didn't mention here like - - - Bertil Fox, Dennis Tinerino, Moses Maldonado, maybe Aaron Baker, Matt Mendenhall...
I think contestants' all possessed freaky genetics and that's why they could proudly stand on the stage. And as I see it, judging was driven mostly by politics not just physique.
Benfatto didn't do a lot of cardio - even for his comeback. I think AlQ had an injury that essentially ended his career? Maybe tore both quads at the same time... Just as he was getting some heat.
How rare to do well in the IFBB if you come from another federation. If you *perform poorly* in another federation (politics), it's an embarrassment for the IFBB to place you highly because it implies that the caliber of IFBB athletes is lower. If *you perform well* in another federation and win IFBB shows implies that the caliber of athletes in the other federation are as good, or even better. It's a no win situation.
Freddie Ortiz is probably the most underrated classic bodybuilder… outstanding aesthics, huge biceps (amazing separation) and a vacuum that rivals Zane!
It's tough to consider any of the 90s guys you mentioned as underrated given how competitive the lineup was. You are looking through the 90s as if modern occurrences were the norm then too. Keep in mind that many more prominent names competed even in smaller shows, including Dorian. You had stacked lineups outside the AC and Olympia, some Finish and German GPs were basically deglorified Mr.O competitions. The German GP 1996 for example had Dorian, Levrone, Dillet, Taylor, and Nasser as the top 5. To 99% of people, that sound exactly like a potential Mr.O top 5 at that time The smaller shows didn't have lower-end bodybuilders like Andrea Presti, Tonio Burton, Charles Griffen, Blessing Awodibu, etc snagging up wins, just qualifying for the Mr.O meant you were a genetic freak. Add to that the fact that becoming a pro was much harder due to fewer opportunities and you can see why that era is known as the most competitive of all time. If you look at those physiques now, sure they all look like they would be in the top 10 at the 2023 Mr.O, but this was a different era. Tonio Burton is probably going to destroy the New York Pro this weekend, but if he were around when it was still called Night of Champions he would be outside the top 10 in that contest too and wouldn't even qualify for the Mr.O.
I found out about John Brown playing football with his kids in high school. I got a job at USC out of college and his youngest son Amon-Ra was starting there as a true freshman. He definitely has his dad's genetics.
Aaron Baker is hands down the most underrated bodybuilder in history. He had everything. Best calves I ever saw and full muscle bellies. Better than Haney and Yates all day.
I have always thought Freddie Ortiz was incredible and one of the first bodybuilders I remember from the back pages of magazines. I think Rick Wayne has one shot in Pumping Iron? Never under stood why Kawak never placed higher.
When I seen him Next to Lee labrada and Lee beat him I was stunned and went back to rewatch and my lifting buddies and I couldn't believe they picked Lee as well. Some believe because of politics and him being out of the country swayed the judges decision.
after this I have to say Lionel Beyeke vs Andrew Jacked would be a crazy comparison I would say Lionel would edge him out with all that muscle maturity
Sorry, but I prefer the physiques of 95% of these guys over the bloated mass monsters that are dominating today. When their quads are wider than their shoulders, you completely lose the aesthetics of what body building should look like.
Bodybuilding is NOT a Sport, it is a BEAUTY CONTEST. That's all!!! The so-called judging criteria is totally subjective. The Weider's paid the Corrupt I.O.C. for years bribes to attempt to have Bodybuilding become an Olympic Sport. NEVER HAPPENED!!! With NO Objective measure to determine a victor, you do NOT have a Sport. As for being athletes, you do NOT have to be an athlete to lift a weight. There is nothing athletic about it. And I have very rarely seen people actually lift weights properly. Just throwing weights around, EGO lifting and GROSS OVER TRAINING. That's why there are so many injuries. And posing is NOT an Athletic activity, it's a Presentation Art Form only. The Weider brothers ran the I.F.B.B. as best they could. They even had a Grand Prix series of Pro Contests. It did NOT work because bodybuilders CANNOT maintain peak conditioning year round. There can only be so few straps to hand out, so lots of competitors will be left out. This video is proof positive. Good as they were, although some of them had poor calves, they simply did NOT make the Top Level Grade. The Weider's were BUSINESS MEN First and foremost. Only the TOP bodybuilders who had the MOST Commercial Potential would win the few straps that existed. The Weider's were also VERY Protective about their Trademark. Outside Bodybuilding Organizations were NOT tolerated. That's why there are so few Mr. Olympias.
How was George Eiferman underrated? He was 1947 Mr. Philadelphia, 1948 Mr. California, 1948 Mr. America, and 1962 Mr. Universe. He’s one of the greatest silver era bodybuilders of all time.
Francis Benfatto posing routine in the 1990 Olympia......incredible
It really was. I had him beating Labrada.
Yep. Francis was incredible, lb for lb.
Frank Zane too...I remember his commentary..Benfatto was his preference (of course 🙂)
.
..
Damned...Freddie Ortiz had uniquely outstanding biceps! Thanks for mentioning him.
Roland Cziurlock was really underrated. Monster back.
Great but bad bone structure like munzer
Ed Kawak, Phil Hill, Charles Clairmonte, John Terrili
So pleased to see the great Rick Wayne and Freddie Ortiz getting some recognition.
Freddie Ortiz 💯- amazing aesthetics, fantastic biceps, or of the best vacuums ever
You never hear many people talk about JJ Marsh. He was pretty complete, did ok in the early 90's now nobody mentions him
Totally agree, I was about to mention the great Marsh, his genetic structure was insane, he had ungodly proportions.
Weak chest and arms
Kawak had an AWESOME physique..his legs were amazing but so was everything else!
I saw Ed Kawak guest posing at a show in Preston, England during my student days in the mid 80s. It was an epiphany, the first time seeing a man’s frame totally full of muscle. I just couldn’t tell if he had a skeleton 😂😂 simply incredible. I expected him to shake up the Olympian order, but he came nowhere 😳 IFBB were clearly favoured a different look and perhaps his conditioning was never 100%. IMO a top 10 genetic freak ever, He was superior to even his Lebanese countryman Samir Bannout - 1983 Mr O winner, and a great poser too.
@@Pulsonar Yes Kawak was INSANELY built. His muscles actually seemed to go beyond his joints...he was so dense and full of muscle...he was unbelievable! Yes Top 10 genetic freak..dude was carved out of rock. Glad you were able to see him!
Samir's back was PHENOMENAL...right up there on a list of "best bodyparts of all time"..but Kawak man...them legs. Loved 70's and 80's bodybuilding.
@@leevancleef358 Yes, both Ed and Samir had unusually longest muscle bellies, but as you mentioned, Ed’s seem to go beyond his joints and overlap other body parts. Next to ‘Quadfather’ Platz, Ed had perhaps the 2nd best Quads of the 80s. They were never striated like Platzs but the Vastus lateralis/medialis hoods of muscle draped around his tiny knee caps actually surpassed Platz. The man rolled on stage and from one pose to another like he actually had wheels 😂 Now Samirs back was incredible, packed to the brim with dense and ripped details, and the first time I ever saw the Christmas tree pose that made him more famous, that was his freaky specialty. The man looked like he deliberately built the flag of Lebanon into his lower back 😂
@@Pulsonar You know your stuff Pulsonar - I agree 1000%....I have lifted for years and have been known to have very good genetics (for upper body) Unfortunately legs not so much...but the True genetic FREAKS have triceps that seem to hang over elbows and the Teardrops hanging over the knee...what an amazing look...its like the muscle is SO dense it engulfs and protects the joints by doing all the work by itself and limiting joint use. Unbelievable.
Matt Mendenhall deserves a shoutout here.
I can tell you have a lot of respect for the golden era bodybuilders. You break down the era very well.
This might be your best list ever. Blown away by most of these picks
Francis Benfatto is the most underrated of all time in my book. His physique was perfect, his posing was perfect and this was all done naturally and under 200 pounds. The guy deserves our respect. Great video!👍
Francis was NOT natty. If you believe he was natty then you believe he had the absolute best genetics in the world because there's not a natural physique today that matches his.
Not natural but yep
Respect to all those guys back in the day. 👍
Forgot Rory leidelmeyer!
@Marx max Muscle You're doing a very good job bro, reminding us about all those forgotten bodybuilders who most guy's in here don't know them except the purists of the game lol... Thx.
We need more videos like this. Highlight some of these pros that get overlooked because of their timing.
Very fun video! Thanks. I’d throw in a few more from the 80s… Tim Belknap, Rory Leidermeyer and (not sure this counts) Casey Viator (under-appreciated or one of “those who didn’t reach their potential”?)…
Tim Belknap was great, too. Cziurlock was soooo densely muscled, he def deserved more.
Ron Teufel looked great also, I had a poster from muscle mag of him doing a most muscular pose on a boat dock, dude had a super lean physique for the 80's also underrated imo
Mike Menzer. Final Answer. He was decades before his time, both in physique & training. He was the truth.
I can't believe Bob didn't mention Aaron Baker he was one outstanding bodybuilder
One of the best
Incredible physique better than Haney and Yates as far as im concerned. His Calves were some of the greatest ever.
They say Ortiz used to finish his workout and then go to his locker and swallow 20 dianabol tablets.
This video was so cool and entertaining. Thanks a lot🙏🏻❤️
I would add maybe a Pavel Jablonicky
Also J.D. Dawodu.
Benfatto's lat spread @12:06 is the most aesthetic pose ive seen
Lance Dreher looks awesome.
Shame about Lionel
Aaron'Batman' Baker. Amazing genetics and physique. Never given the recognition he deserved!!
In no particular order... Rick Wayne, Harold Poole, Leroy Colbert, Phil Hill, Aaron Baker, Nimrod King, Ron Love, Marko Savolainen, Roland Cziurlok, Jim Quinn, Francis Benfatto, Franco Santoriello, Melvin Anthony, Toney Freeman
Ehh Jim Quinn? I know he placed 2nd at WBF but he didn’t have much doing on other than his delts.
Franco Santoriello would have done better if he kicked his drug habit. ( and I don't mean steroids)
@@wildmike951 He was getting a turtle shell too near the end of his run. Cybergenics he was looking really good.
@powerofme7144 I trained at the same gym as Franco in the late 80s. We all knew that Cybergenics was a bunch of BS and that Franco was on everything. He did seem helpful though and gave me a few tips. I was 18 and training near him a few times and he said " hey kid here's a tip for you" mostly training form and exercise ideas. I saw that now he is doing well on a Dave palumbo interview.
@@wildmike951 That’s cool. Yeah the marketing to make money off impressionable youngsters. I got to train with Shawn Ray back in 2002. He’s pretty cool compared to his asshole persona.
Good video. I definitely remember many of them but I do believe you missed out on, maybe 2 unbelievable bodies (my opinion of course). Gary Strydom and Aaron Baker
"Roland Cziurlock" what a great physique ?!!! Great back, tremendous arms and the conditioning !!! I know you didn't mention everyone but here's some underrated dude you didn't mention here like - - - Bertil Fox, Dennis Tinerino, Moses Maldonado, maybe Aaron Baker, Matt Mendenhall...
Francis Benfatto was also UNBELIEVABLE as well.
So cool hearing you shoutout Joel Thomas dude is a monster and I grew up around him and his brother
Good job love vids like this 👏
In that back shot, Roland’s ass is ginormous AND striated. Great job pulling out some gems here!
I think contestants' all possessed freaky genetics and that's why they could proudly stand on the stage. And as I see it, judging was driven mostly by politics not just physique.
What about Gustavo badell and Jean Pierre fux? Also Dennis wolf supper underrated
Matt Mendenhal . Edgar Fletcher. Rory Ledelmyer. Jeff King
love your commentary
Great callouts here!
I met Ron love in the lobby at the 93 Ms Olympia . One of the nicest guys I’ve ever met .
Benfatto didn't do a lot of cardio - even for his comeback. I think AlQ had an injury that essentially ended his career? Maybe tore both quads at the same time... Just as he was getting some heat.
Yeah he was leaving an NBA game from what I remember. Freak accident slipped on the court.
Rory
Matt Mendenhall
Bertil Fox
Vince Taylor
Kal
How rare to do well in the IFBB if you come from another federation. If you *perform poorly* in another federation (politics), it's an embarrassment for the IFBB to place you highly because it implies that the caliber of IFBB athletes is lower. If *you perform well* in another federation and win IFBB shows implies that the caliber of athletes in the other federation are as good, or even better. It's a no win situation.
Good job on the video
I loved bobs video. I even commented on it asking him to do the over rated guys next.
Fun fact about John Brown : has 2 kids who play receiver in the NFL. Talk about them having good genetics
John Brown is also a main reason that Shawn Ray became a pro. I heard Shawn mention John in a few interviews.
@@wildmike951Vince Taylor credits John Brown as well.
Freddie Ortiz is probably the most underrated classic bodybuilder… outstanding aesthics, huge biceps (amazing separation) and a vacuum that rivals Zane!
Kawak was just incredible. Could compete in todays 212 and win I beleive
Good list. Alq was amazing.
Jeff King..
Crazy neck
@@MikeOxtinks absolutely. The Tom Platz of neck development.
can't mention King without thinking about Gunnar Rosbo
Harold Poole...the uncrowned 1966 Mr. Olympia.
Holy hell Roland Cziurlock , what a freak.
DId Freddie bring synthol back in a delaurian????? Whats up with those arms???
It's tough to consider any of the 90s guys you mentioned as underrated given how competitive the lineup was. You are looking through the 90s as if modern occurrences were the norm then too.
Keep in mind that many more prominent names competed even in smaller shows, including Dorian. You had stacked lineups outside the AC and Olympia, some Finish and German GPs were basically deglorified Mr.O competitions. The German GP 1996 for example had Dorian, Levrone, Dillet, Taylor, and Nasser as the top 5. To 99% of people, that sound exactly like a potential Mr.O top 5 at that time The smaller shows didn't have lower-end bodybuilders like Andrea Presti, Tonio Burton, Charles Griffen, Blessing Awodibu, etc snagging up wins, just qualifying for the Mr.O meant you were a genetic freak. Add to that the fact that becoming a pro was much harder due to fewer opportunities and you can see why that era is known as the most competitive of all time.
If you look at those physiques now, sure they all look like they would be in the top 10 at the 2023 Mr.O, but this was a different era. Tonio Burton is probably going to destroy the New York Pro this weekend, but if he were around when it was still called Night of Champions he would be outside the top 10 in that contest too and wouldn't even qualify for the Mr.O.
I found out about John Brown playing football with his kids in high school. I got a job at USC out of college and his youngest son Amon-Ra was starting there as a true freshman. He definitely has his dad's genetics.
John Brown!! Very underrated! He's also the father of Detroit Lion wide receiver Amon-Ra St. Brown.
Lance dreher and ed kowak stayed at my house when they were in NABBA
And I agree completely about Beyeke. When he hits the mark, he's top 5 currently.
Not anymore. Maybe 5-6 years ago he had a shot to dial it in but never came out successful on any big stage
@@untilyoupuke Yeah, I might have misspoken. I meant at his peak he could easily battle it out with today's top 5.
Good call Marx Max some indeed underrated but others full potential never realized like Lionel Beyeke
Excellent ✌✌
Can add Thierry Pastel here too. John Sherman placed a close 2nd to Flex Wheeler at a major show around 1992ish.
Gunter Schlierkamp
Legend has it Kowack took a flight to Birmingham England and bullied a prime Dorian Yates off the Nautilus Pullover in Temple Gym. Legend
More like a myth.
9:30 Edward Kawak looks like a smaller Nassar with that midsection. 1:1 copy
You forgot Liver King
Günter Schlierkamp.
Also, a shout out for the late Ed Corney.
Marko 💪
Aaron Baker is hands down the most underrated bodybuilder in history. He had everything. Best calves I ever saw and full muscle bellies. Better than Haney and Yates all day.
Where is my friend Mike Mentzer? He was under-rated for both his physique and his method of training. May he and his brother Ray RIP.
Lionel beyeke might be the most gifted bodybuilder of all time
Haislop had similar physique of Mendenhall.
I have always thought Freddie Ortiz was incredible and one of the first bodybuilders I remember from the back pages of magazines. I think Rick Wayne has one shot in Pumping Iron? Never under stood why Kawak never placed higher.
When I seen him Next to Lee labrada and Lee beat him I was stunned and went back to rewatch and my lifting buddies and I couldn't believe they picked Lee as well. Some believe because of politics and him being out of the country swayed the judges decision.
Haider was the early 2000’s goat of muscular development and flex magazine. 😂😂😂
Should’ve mentioned how John brown has 3 sons that played in the nfl. 2 currently still playing
Gary Strydom! Yeah his back wasn't real strong but chest, shoulders, quads and abs were incredible.
Tony Freeman is so underrated.
7:00 - there’s lower biceps and there’s Lance Dreher.
The last one was a what could've been and I hope beastwood doesn't end up like him
Believe it or not, Ron Love looks pretty phenomenal still.
Great video marmammummel
Aaron Baker is the first name I think of for underrated bodybuilders.
after this I have to say Lionel Beyeke vs Andrew Jacked would be a crazy comparison I would say Lionel would edge him out with all that muscle maturity
John Sherman vs Keone Pearson this is a real battle
what's that john brown shoulder to waist ratio, wow
You should have included Aaron Baker .
Benfatto best ever❤
Again, when you are actually at the show it’s easy to see the difference between these competitors.
Sorry, but I prefer the physiques of 95% of these guys over the bloated mass monsters that are dominating today. When their quads are wider than their shoulders, you completely lose the aesthetics of what body building should look like.
Politics reign in bodybuilding.
Grymkowsky? Clairemonte. Dennis Newman. Orville burke? Baker. Cormier.
Aaron baker, gunter , markhus and chris cormier and the most underrated ever.
Bodybuilding is NOT a Sport, it is a BEAUTY CONTEST. That's all!!! The so-called judging criteria is totally subjective. The Weider's paid the Corrupt I.O.C. for years bribes to attempt to have Bodybuilding become an Olympic Sport. NEVER HAPPENED!!! With NO Objective measure to determine a victor, you do NOT have a Sport. As for being athletes, you do NOT have to be an athlete to lift a weight. There is nothing athletic about it. And I have very rarely seen people actually lift weights properly. Just throwing weights around, EGO lifting and GROSS OVER TRAINING. That's why there are so many injuries. And posing is NOT an Athletic activity, it's a Presentation Art Form only. The Weider brothers ran the I.F.B.B. as best they could. They even had a Grand Prix series of Pro Contests. It did NOT work because bodybuilders CANNOT maintain peak conditioning year round. There can only be so few straps to hand out, so lots of competitors will be left out. This video is proof positive. Good as they were, although some of them had poor calves, they simply did NOT make the Top Level Grade. The Weider's were BUSINESS MEN First and foremost. Only the TOP bodybuilders who had the MOST Commercial Potential would win the few straps that existed. The Weider's were also VERY Protective about their Trademark. Outside Bodybuilding Organizations were NOT tolerated. That's why there are so few Mr. Olympias.
Lionel beyeke is not done
We wait since years, but i trust him (and you didnt use his best pics😅)
How was George Eiferman underrated? He was 1947 Mr. Philadelphia, 1948 Mr. California, 1948 Mr. America, and 1962 Mr. Universe. He’s one of the greatest silver era bodybuilders of all time.
Paul Grant and Roger Walker both beat Ken Waller, in my opinion.
Lance Dreher reminds me so much of Peter Mohlner
Rick Wayne was incredible.
Reminds me of a Shawn Ray physique.
Love the j roc
Marx secretly roasting these guys! “How many shows did he win? Nada! Never won a single show ”😂😂😂
Dennis Wolf too. feel like nobody remembers he was a massive force in the 2010s
How can you say hes underrated. Hes basically still big fan favorite and won major titles like arnold classic and got 3rd in olympia. L O L
@@marguisee2595 yeah results maybe not but literally, a lot of people forget abt him when talking abt the best recent bodybuilders
He got good placings but still super un talked about. He should have beaten Kai in 2013 instead of 3rd in my opinion
Best abs= Pierre Vandensteen...look him up🙂
Wow 😮
Tommi Thorvildsen Very umderated. Geir Borgan Paulsen amazing
Day 458 of saying hi to Marx!