One thing that I left out here is the topic of invades. That's because it honestly would be too much to cover here, this video is long enough as is. Especially duo will be prone to invades, so getting HoG on the support may not be a bad idea. Also, if you want images of the starts: twitter.com/DukeSlothTV/status/1355184123464151040
@@GreyFencer Yes, invaders curse is everywhere, but when you know the support is half health on purple on their own, you could still abuse that. HoG prevents it.
@@DukeSloth The effect of having at least 5 seconds of 30% reduced healing, movement and attack speed and only having one ability to invade makes it very unlikely to get first blood imo. It's more likely that you become first blood, since the adc and mid could catch up easily having a buff, movement speed and an ability off cooldown. Doesn't seem a good idea to invade since the curse can't be cleansed and hog steals don't exist. Hogging your purple also leaves the adc without much purple exp. Also: getting manikins on Izanami, dealing 2 basics on red camp and then heading to purple makes for an extremely fast duo side jungle and wave clear!
Interesting idea. Slows down your clear on speed since you can't use an ability, but might work if you get HoG. Since Baka doesn't need Bumba's, there is potential there.
Fun fact, the harpy capms on solo side are close enough together to split exp if you pull them to the edges of the rings. I've been hrabbong HOG and having tje solo lane do tje camp with two harpies and I HOG the larger camp. I ens up getting to mid lane either faster than their jungler or at level 2 so we get a free mid camp or maybe even free pressure.
You don't need to pull them to the edges, they're always close enough. But if you end up getting to mid faster and the enemy did the 3 camp start, that just means their gods had slower clears or they had slower clearing starters. Doesn't have anything to do with HoG at that point. Plus not every jungle can run HoG well rn.
@@keegans5695 If it's the time I'm thinking of, then not exactly. The support items were overtuned, so supports could spend a lot more time roaming and didn't have to care as much about their timings. Although there have been a few times when the support just followed the jungler around (usually something like Master Yi) but it wasn't the meta. It was just something they could do. Many of those metas, if we could even call them that, were nerfed pretty quickly though. Riot claims they like innovation, but as soon as the meta changes, they immediately do everything they can to return it to the previous state.
HiRez said they wanted to nerf movement speed for season 8, but I think its better than its ever has been on mages, so I got a build here so feel free to abuse it, build: Doom orb, Charon's coin, Rod of Asclepius and the upgrade of conduit gem (not the arcane one) you can pretty much get 543 consistently on a mage like Ra just by spamming abilities since that gem upgrade only requires you to cast abilities for movement speed you don't have to actually hit players with them, and let's say you got a kill and cleared a wave maybe 560, enjoy.
Pro Jungle bonus strat: after helping with blue, go up to totem, clear totem, if kill potential is in solo, free kill, if not move through enemy jungle to mid/side camp, you should be getting here just as enemy jungle is about to clear, meaning you can steal the camp or get a free gank.
On the topic of solo/jg start : Something I've seen a lot that works really well is doing both the 2 and 3 harpy camps, but at the same time. This works especially well if both gods have AoE autos. Earlier today I had a game where I (Mulan) was soloing the 2 harpy camp while my jungler (Thanatos) did the 3 harpy camp. I ended up in lane about 5~6 seconds ahead of their solo. It's god dependent, but definitely worth going for if both solo and jg have AoEs in their auto attack chain.
What me and some friends have been doing is support starts red with Mage, And hogs the red buff, rotates over to purple where the adc is doing it and clears it. I like this start more than the current one as it gets the mid lane to wave faster, and the support hits level 2 instead of the adc so that they can set up a kill with something like an Athena taunt, Ganesha dash, etc
Based off my own experience in S8, doing quad camps is only worth if both jungler and solo are getting one HoG each. You use first one on speed, second one on large harpy camp, then clear the rest normally. You're basically buying xp with the HoGs, but you'll be slightly behind on gold. It also depends on the gods you're playing. With high single target damage it's better, but if you already have high aoe clear such as if the solo laner (or jungler I suppose) is Bellona, it's always better to just take the two buffs and the small harpy camp. I find jungling to be quite awkward this season for whatever reason. I find myself just sitting around the solo lanes while the duo lane is just there. You have far less incentive to go to the duo lane in this season, and you really only go there if you're certain you can get a kill. Otherwise it's not worth it. It does make sense though, since the duo lane is supposed to be the hyper carry lane and should be a risk/reward thing for the jungler.
I definitely am preferring to start at blue as a solo laner. Guan with Bluestone for example absolutely shreds the blue buff and can make it into lane extremely quick to either hold or push into tower so the minions die and your opponent loses out on those last hits. Although your opponent will technically have more xp than you by the time they get to lane, they lose a lot of pressure because of it. I am struggling a bit to figure out which starter item is best for guardians in solo. So far Vampire Shroud seems to be the play for the crazy sustain it gives, buuuut it makes clearing the blue buff a bit slow and the upgrades aren't too worth it on some guardians. I liked it a lot on Cthulhu and Jorm.
Fully agree. Also, honestly feel like solo guardians are being dealt a bit of a bad hand at the moment. The obvious choice would be Warding Sigil to counter the DoT meta, but the base stats don't really check out and it lacks sustain.
Maybe try Conduit Gem. Helps with clear and MP sustain and Gem of Focus seems decent on any God. Might need to grab a physical protection item over Chalice, but could work maybe.
This needs an urgent update because since I came back after month not not playing (not since gilgamesh) it seems that either I'm constantly playing with clueless noobs, or the meta has drastically shifted. I'm talking "the solo is supposed to do blue alone and dont start yellow anymore" shift.
Something that I think is overlooked is that because the jungler's camps are split, he gets less experience, and to make up for it he goes and soaks mid lane and is usually behind in level to the other lanes. Makes for a very sluggish start for the jungler and they end up having significantly lower presence.
The question is who tanks the Red Camp. I've seen Mids and ADCs who don't want to start it. 🤷 I've also seen ADCs who don't want to use their clear abilitity to burn down the Red buff, or stand in the circle to trade off and take a shot or two sometimes at the expense of half the Mid's HP Bar, even after they use a health pot. Only for that mid to lose lane early on due to pressure and a gank because they're already half health. 🤦
I think for solo and jungle, start with yellow buff. Solo goes to small harpy camp (2small ones) and jungle does the normal camp. They are close enough together where exp can be shared and then move to blue together.
Manikin Scepter solo laners can also start at enemy blue and solo it before they get there, then clear wave, then get your own blue. It makes them run out of mana faster, and snowballs you as well. I've yet to lose lane, or die in jungle doing this.
If the jungler leaves the two harpies, that also gives the solo laner a chance to go back and clear them. Might be viable to solo blue, push the wave instead of freezing, and then go back and do the harpies
I'd probably still freeze the wave and then push the second one. Just don't know how far the distance is/how feasible that is between waves, haven't had a jungler doing the start I described here yet
@@DukeSloth @DukeSloth It could be worth trying, at least on gods with good wave and camp clear. This start puts you at level 3 on the second wave. But if you only clear 2 buffs and one harpy, then miss the first 3 melees, you'll still be level 2. If you clear both buffs and both harpies, you'll also hit level 3 on the second wave (unless you also miss two archers). So if you have good enough clear to avoid losing minions on the second wave, it'll give you an advantage over people who only clear one harpy. If you have really strong clear, and can shove the lane into tower fast enough that someone who clears both harpies loses two archers, then you have an advantage over them as well. I'm not sure if that's possible, though.
Hey Duke can you please talk to the devs about the report system? They took out the explanation box and we need it. Unless they basically admit to not caring because I am having teammates literally admitting to throwing and trolling in rank games
Holding purple for your adc and losing half your hp as supp is dumb, you lose so much pressure and from what I've seen in my games so far pressure is king. I've been clearing it and adc usually arrives just in time to last hit the big minion. Meaning you both hit level 2 early on the first wave and can start snowballing from there.
An issue with the solo not doing the 3 harpies is that they lose exp and don't hit level 3 off of 2nd wave like the other solo laner will if they do the 3 harpie start. Puts the solo in a bad spot instantly and now I have shitters doing the 2 harpie start
@@TheReaH3NRYBankShaft he said it between spliting one or both harpie camps, with both you get lv3 on 2nd wave; but with "blue start" you can also get 3 on 2nd wave.
Not an easy question to answer, but let's try: Depends on a few things. Check 10:19 for the comparison. ASSUMING THE ENEMY FREEZES (which they should) 4 camp start loses 3 melee, 1* archer: 384 + 60 after first wave = 444 3 camp start loses 3 melee, 0 archer: 317 + 90 after first wave = 407 1 camp start loses 0 melee, 0 archer: 217 + 240 after first wave = 457 BUT a) a lot of enemies don't freeze, which makes the 4 camp start better in those situations and b) *this CAN be influenced by your starter. If you start Manikin, some gods can make it to wave after 4 camp clear without losing 1 archer. In that case it's an extra 30 XP. On the second wave, you'll then get 240xp and subtracting the 308 XP needed for level 1, we get 4 camp start: 376 XP (or 406 if we get all archers) 3 camp start: 339 XP 1 camp start: 389 XP Since 363 XP are needed, both the 4 camp and 1 camp start reach level 3 either way, while the 3 camp start doesn't. BUT here's the thing: On most gods, the solo blue start does this a lot more reliably. As long as you can clear blue on time, you get more XP, more gold and have a better starting position in lane and for totem if you want. You immediately control the pressure. The 4 camp start relies on much cleaner timings. Additionally, the jungler gets to midlane earlier where a lot more XP and gold is, which is very important in earlygame. Also, keep this in mind: Even if the enemy solo doesn't freeze, they will have lane pressure. The second wave will be pushed towards your tower, so even though you hit level 3 earlier, you don't really get leverage out of it in most matchups and they catch up exactly 1 minion later.
You probably already know but if you and me are in Laning and i have you low and your tower camping i can punish your Xp and gold inheritance by Freezing the wave pretty much standing next to them not attacking but letting them kill off while you miss the ones that die and miss out... its a really good tactic for someone who is tower camping
With scepter starts i have actually been clearing the enemy blue then wave then my blue since everybody seems to be doing the fineokay start you easily clear it before they get there
would it not be better for support to hit level 2 first in a lot of scenarios because you have a lot of kill potential with their CC that they will likely get at level 2. also, why doesn't the support help with red and then Hog purple?
@@DukeSloth I did two matches yesterday where we started 3 red. We only got 4/6 minions, but both me and the support got to lvl 2 on the first wave while their support did the recommended start and he was still lvl 1, which let us be way more aggressive and win our lane early (and the game). Of course, the matchup is probably what mattered more here but i think in most cases having the support get to lvl 2 at the same time as the adc and having their engage earlier to waste actives and/or get an early kill because their support only had 1 ability is more important. Obviously 2 matches is kind of just anecdotal, we would have done more were the servers not garbage, but just saying that you do hit lvl 2 as adc on first wave regardless of the starts.
I just question if it's worth having the support start purple alone. I lost almost half my hp waiting for my carry to come over. Splitting all three might not be the answer, but I think you at least need to wait a couple seconds for the adc to head over. Some do better than others here, Kuzenbo for example has excellent lvl 1 clear so he does pretty well. Ymir took a lot of damage though. I also wonder if the support can screw this up by clearing the smalls at purple before the adc gets there. (which would be the ideal way to minimize incoming damage) I agree we want adc to hit lvl 2 quickly, but is it worth sacrificing half your tanks hp before even the first wave? I feel like support should just wait a few seconds to do purple with adc. Like I said, come supports clear it better than others and some have sustain, but that's just throwing a wrench in the plan to get adc to lvl 2 if the smalls die before adc gets there. leech your adc or sacrifice your tank. Both seem like bad lvl 1 strategies.
I think it’s another one of those things that depends on the god you’re using like with solo and blue buff. If you can clear fast enough you can maybe just wait for the carry. I just buy hog as support to not worry about it. I don’t think 100g is gonna break me that early especially since I wanna make sure my carry gets as much xp as possible as fast as possible
@@Luigicow92k in that case, especially with hog, I'd wait for the carry to head over to purp. Let carry and mid take red, then as soon as carry is like actually walking over I'd start purp. Solo too. They need to understand you don't take all 4 camps off the bat. So many solos want to waste time on both xp camps, and it's not necessary or worth it. Skip the triple harpy camp. If a solo refuses to understand that, I go straight to mid after xp camps and let them clear their own blue. Should be yellow, 2 harpy, blue. Then jung can either take 3 harpy for XP boost, though you're already lvl 2, or rush mid to get pressure and mid camps which I think is the better choice.
My jungle never rotate after the first time. And i as solo get ganked hard then fall back and then they blame me. Not even letting me know if enemies in my side of jungle. And almost never call out.
I wish that smite would integrate with RUclips (and Reddit) and make it so that anyone who watches this video or reads similar fine grained detail is no longer allowed to play casual. I am so tired of dealing with the combination of up tight micromanaging min max BS and toxic internet immature whiners that take this information and treat it like any deviation is a reason to harass people into uninstalling. The internet and videos like this have done way more harm than good.
Scorpions are extra exp and gold, giant scorpions are there to block players from the Gold Fury and Fire Giant, and the they drop a Boost to the Team that's kills it first, a boost to their Camp, like the Blue and Yellow and the Red and Purple You'll see the Orbs flying towards the camp
One thing that I left out here is the topic of invades. That's because it honestly would be too much to cover here, this video is long enough as is. Especially duo will be prone to invades, so getting HoG on the support may not be a bad idea. Also, if you want images of the starts: twitter.com/DukeSlothTV/status/1355184123464151040
thank you for the guide i always like to watch and learn from you videos keep up and stay safe :)
@@GreyFencer Yes, invaders curse is everywhere, but when you know the support is half health on purple on their own, you could still abuse that. HoG prevents it.
@@DukeSloth it's why I've started waiting outside the purple til the adc comes over and hogging it once they do to minimize risk
@@DukeSloth The effect of having at least 5 seconds of 30% reduced healing, movement and attack speed and only having one ability to invade makes it very unlikely to get first blood imo. It's more likely that you become first blood, since the adc and mid could catch up easily having a buff, movement speed and an ability off cooldown. Doesn't seem a good idea to invade since the curse can't be cleansed and hog steals don't exist. Hogging your purple also leaves the adc without much purple exp.
Also: getting manikins on Izanami, dealing 2 basics on red camp and then heading to purple makes for an extremely fast duo side jungle and wave clear!
@Matias Jett No. You're not gonna fool people in this thread.
i see a lot of work went onto this video, thank you
Thanks for noticing! :) Took 3 days :D
Thank you for uploading this, my friends dont believe me when I said adc helps with red
same on me speed is now in season 8 really imported in my eyes i think xp makes always are god stronger and help winning your lane
Some pretty nice pc randoms taught me the rotations
KekW imagine having friends
I love how his example at 4:10 has the scylla against a kumba mid
I’ve missed these kinda videos. Also great seeing junglers finally getting some start diversity
Theorycrafting for Bakasura jg: start with sololaner on speed, go by 2 harpies, eat 1, go blue, sololaner leaves, go eat the other harpy
Interesting idea. Slows down your clear on speed since you can't use an ability, but might work if you get HoG. Since Baka doesn't need Bumba's, there is potential there.
@@DukeSloth yeah a bit, but sololaner helps
This could work esp well with manikins
Very informative and well put together. Also is no one gonna talk about the absolute mad lad who played kumbha mid at 4:12? XD
bruh this is beautiful, like for real you have outdone yourself with this breakdown. Thank you for making my head hurt less
You're the man for breaking down all the numbers Duke!
Fun fact, the harpy capms on solo side are close enough together to split exp if you pull them to the edges of the rings. I've been hrabbong HOG and having tje solo lane do tje camp with two harpies and I HOG the larger camp. I ens up getting to mid lane either faster than their jungler or at level 2 so we get a free mid camp or maybe even free pressure.
You don't need to pull them to the edges, they're always close enough. But if you end up getting to mid faster and the enemy did the 3 camp start, that just means their gods had slower clears or they had slower clearing starters. Doesn't have anything to do with HoG at that point. Plus not every jungle can run HoG well rn.
Thank you I have been a little lost on conquest I'm normally a joust and arena player but that conquest is just to good to pass up
I love how Adc actually levels faster now. No more being lvl 1 and getting ganked by jungle.
well, everyone levels up faster now, except for the mid xD
@@Ivaylodr5 mid levels faster lmao tf you on
@@kieranpearson5096 Mid is arguably the least changed role in terms of xp/minute. It was already a solo lane and they have similar access to xp camps.
@@CottidaeSEA Wasn't there a period a couple seasons back when the meta was that support was basically a second jungle that hung around mid lane?
@@keegans5695 If it's the time I'm thinking of, then not exactly. The support items were overtuned, so supports could spend a lot more time roaming and didn't have to care as much about their timings.
Although there have been a few times when the support just followed the jungler around (usually something like Master Yi) but it wasn't the meta. It was just something they could do.
Many of those metas, if we could even call them that, were nerfed pretty quickly though. Riot claims they like innovation, but as soon as the meta changes, they immediately do everything they can to return it to the previous state.
Oh wow this is amazing information! Thank you kindly Duke.
HiRez said they wanted to nerf movement speed for season 8, but I think its better than its ever has been on mages, so I got a build here so feel free to abuse it, build: Doom orb, Charon's coin, Rod of Asclepius and the upgrade of conduit gem (not the arcane one) you can pretty much get 543 consistently on a mage like Ra just by spamming abilities since that gem upgrade only requires you to cast abilities for movement speed you don't have to actually hit players with them, and let's say you got a kill and cleared a wave maybe 560, enjoy.
that blue-start opening looks _really_ good, especially with Manikin. I'll have to remember that.
Pro Jungle bonus strat: after helping with blue, go up to totem, clear totem, if kill potential is in solo, free kill, if not move through enemy jungle to mid/side camp, you should be getting here just as enemy jungle is about to clear, meaning you can steal the camp or get a free gank.
I like to help with the totem forsure.
Thank you Duke keep up the work
On the topic of solo/jg start : Something I've seen a lot that works really well is doing both the 2 and 3 harpy camps, but at the same time. This works especially well if both gods have AoE autos. Earlier today I had a game where I (Mulan) was soloing the 2 harpy camp while my jungler (Thanatos) did the 3 harpy camp. I ended up in lane about 5~6 seconds ahead of their solo.
It's god dependent, but definitely worth going for if both solo and jg have AoEs in their auto attack chain.
This was very informative and in-depth. Which makes me wonder did you take the golden bolt?
Thanks! I did! :)
@@DukeSloth great work, you deserved it
I like these deep analysis videos of shit like this 👌
What me and some friends have been doing is support starts red with Mage, And hogs the red buff, rotates over to purple where the adc is doing it and clears it. I like this start more than the current one as it gets the mid lane to wave faster, and the support hits level 2 instead of the adc so that they can set up a kill with something like an Athena taunt, Ganesha dash, etc
Glad to hear you being up blue to speed, even if only a bit, I’ve been confused as to why no ones brought it up it seems at least not unviable to me
Wait, blue to speed? I don't recall mentioning that, I don't see any benefit in that tbh
Much needed vid tyty
Based off my own experience in S8, doing quad camps is only worth if both jungler and solo are getting one HoG each. You use first one on speed, second one on large harpy camp, then clear the rest normally. You're basically buying xp with the HoGs, but you'll be slightly behind on gold.
It also depends on the gods you're playing. With high single target damage it's better, but if you already have high aoe clear such as if the solo laner (or jungler I suppose) is Bellona, it's always better to just take the two buffs and the small harpy camp.
I find jungling to be quite awkward this season for whatever reason. I find myself just sitting around the solo lanes while the duo lane is just there. You have far less incentive to go to the duo lane in this season, and you really only go there if you're certain you can get a kill. Otherwise it's not worth it. It does make sense though, since the duo lane is supposed to be the hyper carry lane and should be a risk/reward thing for the jungler.
if you start blue with Hog, you can shove wave into tower and have a shot at stealing their blue if you have a ranged clear ability.
I definitely am preferring to start at blue as a solo laner. Guan with Bluestone for example absolutely shreds the blue buff and can make it into lane extremely quick to either hold or push into tower so the minions die and your opponent loses out on those last hits. Although your opponent will technically have more xp than you by the time they get to lane, they lose a lot of pressure because of it.
I am struggling a bit to figure out which starter item is best for guardians in solo. So far Vampire Shroud seems to be the play for the crazy sustain it gives, buuuut it makes clearing the blue buff a bit slow and the upgrades aren't too worth it on some guardians. I liked it a lot on Cthulhu and Jorm.
Try Ares solo for big blue clear xD
@@samuelsilva8364 if only guardians could get bluestone 😤
Fully agree. Also, honestly feel like solo guardians are being dealt a bit of a bad hand at the moment. The obvious choice would be Warding Sigil to counter the DoT meta, but the base stats don't really check out and it lacks sustain.
Maybe try Conduit Gem. Helps with clear and MP sustain and Gem of Focus seems decent on any God. Might need to grab a physical protection item over Chalice, but could work maybe.
@@DukeSloth i tested warding and it worked amazing even with the incorrect protections it makes you insanely tanky
This needs an urgent update because since I came back after month not not playing (not since gilgamesh) it seems that either I'm constantly playing with clueless noobs, or the meta has drastically shifted.
I'm talking "the solo is supposed to do blue alone and dont start yellow anymore" shift.
Something that I think is overlooked is that because the jungler's camps are split, he gets less experience, and to make up for it he goes and soaks mid lane and is usually behind in level to the other lanes. Makes for a very sluggish start for the jungler and they end up having significantly lower presence.
The question is who tanks the Red Camp. I've seen Mids and ADCs who don't want to start it. 🤷
I've also seen ADCs who don't want to use their clear abilitity to burn down the Red buff, or stand in the circle to trade off and take a shot or two sometimes at the expense of half the Mid's HP Bar, even after they use a health pot. Only for that mid to lose lane early on due to pressure and a gank because they're already half health. 🤦
Thanks for doing the math for us as always Duke.
Love the fact that when he was showing the scylla in mini map the opponent mid lane was kumba 😂
I was curious what the numbers are like if the support runs Benevolence. Would it be worth while for them to split red as well?
Haven't ran it, but unlikely, it's a minor diff and triple sharing doesn't increase the XP pool
I think for solo and jungle, start with yellow buff. Solo goes to small harpy camp (2small ones) and jungle does the normal camp. They are close enough together where exp can be shared and then move to blue together.
As said and shown in the video, it slows you down unnecessarily.
Isms
Manikin Scepter solo laners can also start at enemy blue and solo it before they get there, then clear wave, then get your own blue. It makes them run out of mana faster, and snowballs you as well. I've yet to lose lane, or die in jungle doing this.
I haven’t played in a year are these starts up to date?
If the jungler leaves the two harpies, that also gives the solo laner a chance to go back and clear them.
Might be viable to solo blue, push the wave instead of freezing, and then go back and do the harpies
I'd probably still freeze the wave and then push the second one. Just don't know how far the distance is/how feasible that is between waves, haven't had a jungler doing the start I described here yet
@@DukeSloth @DukeSloth It could be worth trying, at least on gods with good wave and camp clear.
This start puts you at level 3 on the second wave. But if you only clear 2 buffs and one harpy, then miss the first 3 melees, you'll still be level 2. If you clear both buffs and both harpies, you'll also hit level 3 on the second wave (unless you also miss two archers).
So if you have good enough clear to avoid losing minions on the second wave, it'll give you an advantage over people who only clear one harpy. If you have really strong clear, and can shove the lane into tower fast enough that someone who clears both harpies loses two archers, then you have an advantage over them as well. I'm not sure if that's possible, though.
Just thought it was funny RUclips is recommending me this with 1 patch left in the season.
Hey Duke can you please talk to the devs about the report system? They took out the explanation box and we need it. Unless they basically admit to not caring because I am having teammates literally admitting to throwing and trolling in rank games
Holding purple for your adc and losing half your hp as supp is dumb, you lose so much pressure and from what I've seen in my games so far pressure is king.
I've been clearing it and adc usually arrives just in time to last hit the big minion. Meaning you both hit level 2 early on the first wave and can start snowballing from there.
13:44 -is to blow up and then act like I don’t know nobodayyy ahahahaha
An issue with the solo not doing the 3 harpies is that they lose exp and don't hit level 3 off of 2nd wave like the other solo laner will if they do the 3 harpie start. Puts the solo in a bad spot instantly and now I have shitters doing the 2 harpie start
Is there any variance on when you hit 3? Like, is it possible that clearing all four solo-side camps gets you to lv3 faster?
Fineokay says so lol
@@TheReaH3NRYBankShaft he said it between spliting one or both harpie camps, with both you get lv3 on 2nd wave; but with "blue start" you can also get 3 on 2nd wave.
Lol.
Not an easy question to answer, but let's try:
Depends on a few things. Check 10:19 for the comparison. ASSUMING THE ENEMY FREEZES (which they should)
4 camp start loses 3 melee, 1* archer: 384 + 60 after first wave = 444
3 camp start loses 3 melee, 0 archer: 317 + 90 after first wave = 407
1 camp start loses 0 melee, 0 archer: 217 + 240 after first wave = 457
BUT a) a lot of enemies don't freeze, which makes the 4 camp start better in those situations and b) *this CAN be influenced by your starter. If you start Manikin, some gods can make it to wave after 4 camp clear without losing 1 archer. In that case it's an extra 30 XP.
On the second wave, you'll then get 240xp and subtracting the 308 XP needed for level 1, we get
4 camp start: 376 XP (or 406 if we get all archers)
3 camp start: 339 XP
1 camp start: 389 XP
Since 363 XP are needed, both the 4 camp and 1 camp start reach level 3 either way, while the 3 camp start doesn't.
BUT here's the thing: On most gods, the solo blue start does this a lot more reliably. As long as you can clear blue on time, you get more XP, more gold and have a better starting position in lane and for totem if you want. You immediately control the pressure. The 4 camp start relies on much cleaner timings. Additionally, the jungler gets to midlane earlier where a lot more XP and gold is, which is very important in earlygame.
Also, keep this in mind: Even if the enemy solo doesn't freeze, they will have lane pressure. The second wave will be pushed towards your tower, so even though you hit level 3 earlier, you don't really get leverage out of it in most matchups and they catch up exactly 1 minion later.
@@DukeSloth Cool, thanks for the answer! Looking forward to trying everything out.
What is the least to most played role in order. I'm guessing guardian is the least?
What is the Best way to farm as an under leveled Support?
Finally! :D
How do you freeze the minions?
What does it mean by freezing a wave
You probably already know but if you and me are in Laning and i have you low and your tower camping i can punish your Xp and gold inheritance by Freezing the wave pretty much standing next to them not attacking but letting them kill off while you miss the ones that die and miss out... its a really good tactic for someone who is tower camping
With scepter starts i have actually been clearing the enemy blue then wave then my blue since everybody seems to be doing the fineokay start you easily clear it before they get there
And it literally just wins you the lane
Searching the comment section for meta Arachne start.
Nada. :(
What about support using hog on the shared xp camp at the start?
Still wait 4 the which god should god witch starter xD or is there one out?
Not yet, next starter vid coming tomorrow!
would it not be better for support to hit level 2 first in a lot of scenarios because you have a lot of kill potential with their CC that they will likely get at level 2.
also, why doesn't the support help with red and then Hog purple?
Because then the carry doesn't hit level 2. The carry hitting level 2 is usually more highly valued.
@@DukeSloth I did two matches yesterday where we started 3 red. We only got 4/6 minions, but both me and the support got to lvl 2 on the first wave while their support did the recommended start and he was still lvl 1, which let us be way more aggressive and win our lane early (and the game). Of course, the matchup is probably what mattered more here but i think in most cases having the support get to lvl 2 at the same time as the adc and having their engage earlier to waste actives and/or get an early kill because their support only had 1 ability is more important. Obviously 2 matches is kind of just anecdotal, we would have done more were the servers not garbage, but just saying that you do hit lvl 2 as adc on first wave regardless of the starts.
What does freezing the lane?
I just question if it's worth having the support start purple alone. I lost almost half my hp waiting for my carry to come over. Splitting all three might not be the answer, but I think you at least need to wait a couple seconds for the adc to head over. Some do better than others here, Kuzenbo for example has excellent lvl 1 clear so he does pretty well. Ymir took a lot of damage though. I also wonder if the support can screw this up by clearing the smalls at purple before the adc gets there. (which would be the ideal way to minimize incoming damage) I agree we want adc to hit lvl 2 quickly, but is it worth sacrificing half your tanks hp before even the first wave? I feel like support should just wait a few seconds to do purple with adc.
Like I said, come supports clear it better than others and some have sustain, but that's just throwing a wrench in the plan to get adc to lvl 2 if the smalls die before adc gets there. leech your adc or sacrifice your tank. Both seem like bad lvl 1 strategies.
I think it’s another one of those things that depends on the god you’re using like with solo and blue buff. If you can clear fast enough you can maybe just wait for the carry. I just buy hog as support to not worry about it. I don’t think 100g is gonna break me that early especially since I wanna make sure my carry gets as much xp as possible as fast as possible
@@Luigicow92k in that case, especially with hog, I'd wait for the carry to head over to purp. Let carry and mid take red, then as soon as carry is like actually walking over I'd start purp.
Solo too. They need to understand you don't take all 4 camps off the bat. So many solos want to waste time on both xp camps, and it's not necessary or worth it. Skip the triple harpy camp. If a solo refuses to understand that, I go straight to mid after xp camps and let them clear their own blue. Should be yellow, 2 harpy, blue. Then jung can either take 3 harpy for XP boost, though you're already lvl 2, or rush mid to get pressure and mid camps which I think is the better choice.
Wait a few seconds to start purple start it right as they finish off red
So I’ve been starting on blue as solo and myself and the jungle are hitting level 2 and 3 before anyone else in the game consistently
Also my junglers always hate it when i do this
My jungle never rotate after the first time. And i as solo get ganked hard then fall back and then they blame me. Not even letting me know if enemies in my side of jungle. And almost never call out.
You didn’t mention the support buff
Uhm, sorry for not being able to see half a year into the future by the time that video was made? :D
I got flamed so hard for trying to start with jungler, it was the 2nd say of the season though
I wish that smite would integrate with RUclips (and Reddit) and make it so that anyone who watches this video or reads similar fine grained detail is no longer allowed to play casual. I am so tired of dealing with the combination of up tight micromanaging min max BS and toxic internet immature whiners that take this information and treat it like any deviation is a reason to harass people into uninstalling. The internet and videos like this have done way more harm than good.
I think its worth it if you hit 3 before the enemy solo laner
Arachne can put spiders on blue and clear yellow by herself while solo starts blue it is the fastest level 2 in game
Fastest level 2 for her, but puts the solo behind in XP
Its not like freezing the wave garners that huge of exp lead lol those back camp values are huge
It literally does. It's 150+ XP, often 180+. Back camp value is 67 shared. The numbers are in the vid.
Okokok
4:12 Kumbha mid. Respect
Still hella confused as to what the scorpions are there for
Scorpions are extra exp and gold, giant scorpions are there to block players from the Gold Fury and Fire Giant, and the they drop a Boost to the Team that's kills it first, a boost to their Camp, like the Blue and Yellow and the Red and Purple
You'll see the Orbs flying towards the camp
is tiamat coming next patch ?
I think so.
Yes, she is confirmed for 8.2 and Gilgamesh for 8.4.
@@rayhatesu thank you
But what’s the counter to Manakin being run on every god rn?
Running Manikin yourself.
@@DukeSloth big brain plays
DukeSloth the ultimate gambit. Manakin Anubis here I come
@@fatcat2015 have mercy on our souls
Warding sigil can counter it pretty well also warrior axe will beat it in almost every matchup in solo at least
Lets gooo
So who comes up with these so quickly?
Me i start i bug... 😅
So supports dont need hand of the god early game now
Hi
played the first 5 ranked conquest games lost the only 5 ranked conquest games, that matchmaking made me quit this game
You start at 1500mmr and so does everyone else, soon the matches even out, as you either raise or fall to your appropriate level.
I don't like it.