Nah that first charge to test their mass was mind blowing, that actually looked like a cavalry unit crashing into some marauders and just breaking through their lines, super cool
@@krankyboi4484 No, it really didn't, lmao. Idk if you guys played TWW2, but Calvary in that game was just as strong because missile units were so much more important in that game. Their mass wasnt as big though, so you can't just single unit charge and destroy an entire army like here. This change is definitely a welcome one, though. It feels super cheesey, but I love it haha
@@Ghost1170yeah, they might have gone a little too far with how unstoppable Grails are looking rn, but it's still better than watching a t4-5 cav unit fail to break all the way through a block of peasant spears
The change that affects Grail Guardians is that they are counted as chariot sized entities, which means they can pull through everything like chariots can.
@Malignard The chariot size affects unit behavior, instead of targeting an entity for a melee attack the grails now try and charge through them like chariots on the charge. Hence why you can still push through a near infinite amount of infantry without using lance formation.
@@riley_028 They don't use their lances and instead walk through halberds. This doesn't make sense from a physics standpoint, much less a game balance standpoint. I genuinely do not understand why players are so adverse to properly using CB and instead want this instant in and out cycle charging which actually lowers your cav performance. To each their own but it really baffles me.
@@riley_028 Eh, if you want realism what *should* be happening is that either the infantry should break and run before the cavalry hits or if the infantry is disciplined and has sufficiently long pointy sticks the horses would balk and refuse. And chariots should be doing drive-bys with bows or long spears instead of charging into formations.
@@AshenVictor Also not realistic. At least for heavy cav, which more often than not had blinders on their horses for just this occasion, and the horses only refused to charge a wall of spears, as did their riders, usually. In a realistic setting, it would matter immensely whether the cavalry could attack the side of the formation or not, only madmen charge directly into spears. That's why footman squares existed, and also why they don't really matter in TW, because the game doesn't care about unit facings (not very much, at least). As for breaking and running, in WH3 basically only Bretonnians have trash militia units (Peasant Mob), and they absolutely break and run. In reality, trained troops would set as tight a formation as possible, especially if they didn't have spears (though in reality any footman had a spear, unless they were meant to be INSIDE or BEHIND a spear formation). And chariots DID charge into formations. That's where you get the famous scythed Greek chariots, though, again, they couldn't charge the FRONT of a spear formation. The bowmen in chariots were also a thing (like they are in the game).
Actually won a short campaign with the Fey by only using one single unit of grail guardian she starts with and dwellers below, absolutely busted, that one unit was already rank 9 after 3 battles and killed around 1k units every battle. Just never stops and always circle around missile units.
That's insane! I gotta try this, now I think Brettonnia just need one more campaign mechanic, something like a Crusade mechanic and it will be the perfect faction for me
@@Diego000793 I been thinkin for a while maybe their peasants should function more like waagh where they can call an errantry levy in their own lands and call up a second tandem army of peasant soldiers. Then maybe they can recruit super low cost units as long as their crusade lasts like the jihad/crusade mechanic worked in Medieval TW2.
A crusade mechanic that lets you recruit foot units that aren't pesants, lel 2 to 3 knights and that works like a waah but with you don't move to the target you begin to lose the crusader units.
This is how Cav should function normally honestly (maybe not quite to this extreme but still). The fact that with most cav half the unit gets stuck when you do a single charge meaning you have to right click away for the next minute just so they don't kill themselves has always been frustrating.
I agree that normal cav in Warhammer is underpowered, but if AI cav demolished a player's line to anywhere near this extent, you'd get huge complaints from people.
I was thinking the same thing, that them charging through masses of enemies scattering them before them looked exactly like the Rohirim in the Battle of Pelennor fields. The only thing missing was a few Norscan Mammoths to play the part of Oliphaunts. They even have the same weakness to large single entities.
I like how Legend dismissed the Brettonian patch because "it's just some stat changes". Yeah, and those can completely change how some of the units behave.
Those stat changes don't actually reflect the one stat change that mattered - Knights are treated as monstrous cavalry/chariots on a technical level. There was not a peep about that.
I'm pretty sure the chariot change was not intended and I don't think it was even written in the patch notes Even if they were correctly intended to function like chariots, it is far overperforming that class as well. The praises for the cavalry change is misplaced. This is bug testing. Why legend and everyone else is looking at this as a feature is silly. It will be fixed Same with pumpwagons
I love how the Beasts of Tash-nar, some of the lightest units on the opposing side and easily capable of being flattened on the counter-charge, were the most…doggedly trying to pursue and stop this tomfoolery along with Khorne’s Bloody Fist. Loyal, brave doggos, if a bit misguided…
Legend seems to have underestimated this Bretonnian patch, I just remember him saying it didn't SEEM significant. Looks like they are actually playable as their lore sort of states.
Meh. Graal units were already quite good, by the time you had a grail guardians doomstack you probably already won the campaign. Since WH1, Bretonnia were incredibly strong in lategame with their T5 knights units, strong economy buildings, very good legendary lords. Their issues were very boring mechanic with the vows (some were very tedious to do) and very weak melee infantry. They still have both and losing their walls made them weaker (and less lore-friendly). Also, Op units like these tend to get nerfed, I don't see how infantry-heavy faction can do against that in MP so it's clearly just temporary.
no the patch barely messed with the grail guardians, as someone who has played far too much Britonnia, the changes are not that useful to the failings of the faction, some of the problems are that Cav is still underpowered until you get higher tier(and even then it still might suck for other factions), questing knights are still crap, the campaign mechanics are boring, they still can't make walled settlements making defending land annoying, their infentry is shit besides for a few units(archers) which would not be bad if calvery was not so annoying to use, vows are not fun to deal with(and are required for fielding certain armies, such as the OP one you see in the video), chivalry takes FOREVER to build up, and a bunch of other minor issues.
Wow, Grail Cavalry just move through small units like butter. That's crazy to see Cavalry move like that in WH3... haha. Makes me want to try out a Bretonnia campaign
Was surprised that Legend didn't use them better than that. By trying to micro smaller groups he was actually less effective. Would have been better to keep them all in Lance, select all at once, and basically just click units to attack a few times before pulling everything out. The way he did it led to them getting stuck more often and dealing less damage since they weren't constantly colliding with units. The best use of this is to literally not have them sit and fight ever, always be only charging, nothing else, but by trying to micro to be more efficient they were often left standing and fighting with a unit instead of charging through.
It's done on purpose. The most efficent to play would have been to use AoE spells in the blob and throw the Mortis Engine Fay into it. Back in WH2, he used cavalry doomstacks like grail guardians as smaller groupes to isolate enemy units and kill them one by one. We already know it's very effective but micro intensive. It just shows how the units are even stronger than before.
@@guillaume9102 I think you missed my point. My point was that by trying to get clever and microing them in order to have different groups in different areas dealing with different things, it actually made them _less_ effective because it meant there were times they did get bogged down and were stuck in combat taking damage and didn't always have their charge bonus. If he had just kept them all in a single group with all of them constantly selected, kept them in lance, and did nothing but click new attack orders, and maybe occasionally pull all of them out at once, they would have taken less damage since nothing would have much chance to hit them, while still dealing tons of collision damage. I've seen other videos of people testing that kind of thing with large groups of either Grail Knights or Grail Guardians. They basically treat them like a stegadon or other single monstrous entity doomstack, but constantly clicking new attack orders to keep them charging in a single group. It's an easier, less micro-intensive, and yet also more effective way to use them. Basically, Legend tried to be too clever in the way he used them when it wasn't necessary. Edited for formatting and clarity.
@@Vandelberger See my response to @guillaume9102. The long and short is that by trying to put in more effort, Legend actually made both harder to use and less effective.
They are monstruous cavalry in the game archives despite showing normal cavalry, thats why they can ignore infantry now, also this is intended by CA and not an error
It's 100% an error. Monstrous cavalry are "medium" size in the game, not "large" like grails are now. Hence why only grails perform this way, which CA did not intend.
@@slickysan They've stated to multiple content creators that Grails being able to charge through braced halberds was not their intention, so yeah I feel pretty confident that I know CA's thoughts on the matter. They've told use them.
The size of Grail Guardians was MEDIUM in the past, but it was changed to LARGE in the current version, that is the reason they can easliy rush through the infantry. BTW, there were only two cavalry units with the LARGE size in this game in the past, they are Necropolis Knights from Tomb Kings and all cavalry units from Ogre Kingdom. Many so-called "Monster Cavalry" units including War Bear Riders from Kislev and Demigryph Knights from the Empire share the same size with most horse cavalry units.
Even the cavalry units of Khorne with Juggernaut can also be considered as horse cavalry because their sizes are Medium> No matter how heavy they are, they can not crush through the infantry easliy like Grail Guardians.
Yea this what one would expect from a cavalry faction. It really has been painful having half your army get stuck on a couple of units. Glad to see them finally doing something about it.
Nice to see cav acting like cav should, smashing through lines and punting units around ( i know it really only works for nonhistorical but still nice to see some OOMF behind the hits), also wish allied combat was a bit more common instead of just one faction v one faction.
Everything I’ve seen makes me think not using lance formation is a mistake. The extra mass and acceleration are really useful now that Grail cav doesn’t get stuck.
16:35. Dear god, I need to play Bretonia, this looks just brutal and fun. This IS how Bretonia should feel like. You mow down everything with your cav!
Not a bug, grail guardians are insanely powerful in the lore so they probably felt it a bit weird that the guardians were just strong cavalry. They're more like demi gods now, as they should be
@@TheBoxGhost_tm mostly because its against the lore, Brettonians tend to view riding on horses as figuratively(and literally) being above all the stinky peasants they have, so having them get off of their horses for any length of time would ruin the image a tad. The issue problems are intentional, though a dismount button (for every cavalry) would be quite nice in a lot of circumstances
Having played quite a bit of Brettonnia in WH 2, Grail Guardians were always very tanky thanks to their high meele defence. They could actually get stuck in and act as a frontline unlike Grail Knights who could be pretty squishy if they got bogged down. The fact that they can now just plow through infantry like nothing makes them kind of terrifying.
Unironically, this doomstack fits the same issue as the Lord of Change doomstack where it's "too strong". You really don't need more than half a stack to absolutely crumple enemy armies with Grail Guardians.
I mean, this and the Gryphon Doomstack were the only "good" units that the Bretonnians had. Now, FINALLY, these guys can compete with the flying doomstack.
I have have gone after the ends of the army. They’re so slim and spread out you can bash the sides and rout them and then repeat cycle charges with the rest. Plenty of time to heal and thin out the dangerous units with paladins
Since the AI would never make a "grail guardian doomstack" and this would be something a player controlled Bretonnia would enjoy so much in singleplayer, i really see no reason for this to be removed. This is the heavy cavalry charge fantasy any guy would ask for. I really don't care about multiplayer, they could remove bretonnia from multi alltogether if they wish to do so but i would love to use this relatively easy to build / really fun doomstack in my current and future campaigns. Also, all the bretonnia has is their high tier cavalry, their other units are completely among the worst in their respective jobs, so, at least they have an excuse to have a "OMG WTF" calibre of cavalry in their roster. Maybe it's cost can be doubled, or tripled tho. It seems, from this video, any LL, 3 paladins and only a half stack of grail guardians could also destroy these armies if you were to play really all in.
if you go for a full cav doomstack control groups are NEEDED imo. those full blob charges are way less effective than a from all flanks charge. great video tho !
Definitely not, only grail guardians have this much pushing power right now, while grail knights have good pushing power, they can't completely ignore infantry. That's why it's grail guardians in this video, not grail knight.
@@fiveforbiting Nope, have tested myself, there is a hidden change done to grail guardian only which allows them to completely ignore infantry. Grail knight has the same amount changes on paper, but they do not have the ability to perform as well as grail knight, and the difference is actually huge
Just wondering if units with expert charge defence would be able to hold up, like some of the dwarfs as they normally have kinda high mass them selves.
It looks cool and all but i feel like braced expert charge defence infantry should atleast do damage upon impact like in three kingdoms. Right now anti cavalry infantry are so bad (against the player)
Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden! spear shall be shaken, shield shall be splintered, a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now, ride now, ride! Ride for ruin and the world's ending! Death! Death! Death! Forth Eorlingas!
I am quite experienced in campaigns on Legendary+VeryHard (1000+ hrs only WH3), but still can't make cavalry army working. Tried with Kislev last time, basically my Gryphon Legion + 4 war sleds army is useless against any stack with monsters or t2+ infantry. I reckon that problem is not only the unit, but my skill also. Any tips on controlling 16 units of cavalry at the same time?
By ze lady, it truly is a glorious sight to see. Now just make the green knight a legendary hero for either fay enchantress or leoncoeur and ill be happy. and _dont_ tell CA to change it dammit!
Dammit my scottish man respects u to death and ive fought to the death my upbringing , wish u controlled our shotgun shuts and rifles but ye mostly melee glasgow bats and blades
Does bretonia still suffer from terrible army replenishment though? that was one of my biggest gripes about playing them. waiting a good 3 turns or so for an army to heal up after it went through a ruff fight was.... PAINFUL. especially when im use to Empire and HE where they can pretty much fully heal from the worst fights on the first turn.
i think legend is way too paranoid about rampage grail guardians from the last patch would barely get damaged by these armies the new ones won't get touched
The thing is all bretonian Knights provide a temporary ITP AoE when charging which includes immune to rampage. That's why there was no way he would have had to worry about it
@@danielalvarezberdugo1622 only knights errant have the aoe itp grail units always had normal itp and rampage is a contract effect like poison so it would still effect the knights
I don't think he was even doing the charging right, he could have abused their extraordinary mass more even. Seems like every model would make it through a straight charge, then when ur clear of the mob turn around and do it again. When you turn around in melee when the enemy is near it'll get a hit in the back.
I believe that grail gaurdians and knights can get 33% ward save in total. 8% from red line end buff when GG and GK have rank 8 10% from tecnology 15% from blessing of the lady If not more with other buffs etc, this was playing as alberic's faction so has potential to get higher?
You also could steal a hero with +Save to the army, or get Luminarks from Empire ally for another +10 wardasave. Luminark wardsave is an aura, tho, that doesn't play super-well with mobile armies.
Nah that first charge to test their mass was mind blowing, that actually looked like a cavalry unit crashing into some marauders and just breaking through their lines, super cool
It's so weird to see cavalry performing so well in WH, they dont even get stuck much.
Yes, makes me want to play a Khorne campaign with an army of Blood- and Skullcrushers.
Yeah, and imagine this took 7 years to implement 🙃 Even longer if we take the other titles in account . It started with Empire
@@krankyboi4484 No, it really didn't, lmao.
Idk if you guys played TWW2, but Calvary in that game was just as strong because missile units were so much more important in that game. Their mass wasnt as big though, so you can't just single unit charge and destroy an entire army like here.
This change is definitely a welcome one, though. It feels super cheesey, but I love it haha
@@Ghost1170yeah, they might have gone a little too far with how unstoppable Grails are looking rn, but it's still better than watching a t4-5 cav unit fail to break all the way through a block of peasant spears
@@joshwalton25 this is just the grail knights, the best cavalry in the game, the others are hardly so powerful
Lore Accurate Grail Guardians have entered the chat.
Based
"Their pull-out game is strong" which is why The Lady blesses them.
Theoden's Glorious Charge.
Theoden was French?
@@De_Wit ofc
@@De_Wit even gengis khan was french
@@dieuetmondroithonisoitquim338 well...thinking about it, you might have a point there 😄
The most satisfying of charges
The change that affects Grail Guardians is that they are counted as chariot sized entities, which means they can pull through everything like chariots can.
@Malignard The chariot size affects unit behavior, instead of targeting an entity for a melee attack the grails now try and charge through them like chariots on the charge. Hence why you can still push through a near infinite amount of infantry without using lance formation.
@@spellbound1875 that's what cavalry *should* be doing imo
@@riley_028 They don't use their lances and instead walk through halberds. This doesn't make sense from a physics standpoint, much less a game balance standpoint. I genuinely do not understand why players are so adverse to properly using CB and instead want this instant in and out cycle charging which actually lowers your cav performance. To each their own but it really baffles me.
@@riley_028 Eh, if you want realism what *should* be happening is that either the infantry should break and run before the cavalry hits or if the infantry is disciplined and has sufficiently long pointy sticks the horses would balk and refuse.
And chariots should be doing drive-bys with bows or long spears instead of charging into formations.
@@AshenVictor Also not realistic. At least for heavy cav, which more often than not had blinders on their horses for just this occasion, and the horses only refused to charge a wall of spears, as did their riders, usually. In a realistic setting, it would matter immensely whether the cavalry could attack the side of the formation or not, only madmen charge directly into spears. That's why footman squares existed, and also why they don't really matter in TW, because the game doesn't care about unit facings (not very much, at least).
As for breaking and running, in WH3 basically only Bretonnians have trash militia units (Peasant Mob), and they absolutely break and run. In reality, trained troops would set as tight a formation as possible, especially if they didn't have spears (though in reality any footman had a spear, unless they were meant to be INSIDE or BEHIND a spear formation).
And chariots DID charge into formations. That's where you get the famous scythed Greek chariots, though, again, they couldn't charge the FRONT of a spear formation. The bowmen in chariots were also a thing (like they are in the game).
Actually won a short campaign with the Fey by only using one single unit of grail guardian she starts with and dwellers below, absolutely busted, that one unit was already rank 9 after 3 battles and killed around 1k units every battle. Just never stops and always circle around missile units.
That's insane! I gotta try this, now I think Brettonnia just need one more campaign mechanic, something like a Crusade mechanic and it will be the perfect faction for me
@@Diego000793 holy waaagh
@@Diego000793 I been thinkin for a while maybe their peasants should function more like waagh where they can call an errantry levy in their own lands and call up a second tandem army of peasant soldiers. Then maybe they can recruit super low cost units as long as their crusade lasts like the jihad/crusade mechanic worked in Medieval TW2.
@@Diego000793Repanse and Alberic campaigns are literally crusades.
A crusade mechanic that lets you recruit foot units that aren't pesants, lel 2 to 3 knights and that works like a waah but with you don't move to the target you begin to lose the crusader units.
This is how Cav should function normally honestly (maybe not quite to this extreme but still). The fact that with most cav half the unit gets stuck when you do a single charge meaning you have to right click away for the next minute just so they don't kill themselves has always been frustrating.
I do agree with the argument that braced units must stand a bigger chance against Grail Knights
I agree that normal cav in Warhammer is underpowered, but if AI cav demolished a player's line to anywhere near this extent, you'd get huge complaints from people.
This is why i practically ignore recruiting cavalry
My favorite part is when he said "ITS GRAIL GUARDING TIME" ( 10:07 ) and he grailed guardied all over them
I hate that I laughed at something so stupid.
truly one of the moments of all time
Stand Back, Karl Franz, I'm beginning to Grail!
and they all clapped
I cried as I clapped.
I was thinking the same thing, that them charging through masses of enemies scattering them before them looked exactly like the Rohirim in the Battle of Pelennor fields. The only thing missing was a few Norscan Mammoths to play the part of Oliphaunts. They even have the same weakness to large single entities.
I like how Legend dismissed the Brettonian patch because "it's just some stat changes". Yeah, and those can completely change how some of the units behave.
Those stat changes don't actually reflect the one stat change that mattered - Knights are treated as monstrous cavalry/chariots on a technical level. There was not a peep about that.
I'm pretty sure the chariot change was not intended and I don't think it was even written in the patch notes
Even if they were correctly intended to function like chariots, it is far overperforming that class as well. The praises for the cavalry change is misplaced. This is bug testing. Why legend and everyone else is looking at this as a feature is silly. It will be fixed
Same with pumpwagons
@@defrte yes it is a bug. CA will have already fixed it 3 years from now.
@@rumplstiltztinkerstein fingers crossed lmao
@@rumplstiltztinkersteinno need to fix. It's already good.
I love how the Beasts of Tash-nar, some of the lightest units on the opposing side and easily capable of being flattened on the counter-charge, were the most…doggedly trying to pursue and stop this tomfoolery along with Khorne’s Bloody Fist. Loyal, brave doggos, if a bit misguided…
Legend seems to have underestimated this Bretonnian patch, I just remember him saying it didn't SEEM significant. Looks like they are actually playable as their lore sort of states.
And I couldn't be happier! Finally cavalry that feels good to use.
Iirc the issue isn’t really on the battlefield, it’s on the campaign map. Removing their walled lv 3 minor settlements really screws them over.
@@Buzzy_Bland Never thought i would say this but i kinda miss walled minor settlements.
Meh. Graal units were already quite good, by the time you had a grail guardians doomstack you probably already won the campaign. Since WH1, Bretonnia were incredibly strong in lategame with their T5 knights units, strong economy buildings, very good legendary lords. Their issues were very boring mechanic with the vows (some were very tedious to do) and very weak melee infantry. They still have both and losing their walls made them weaker (and less lore-friendly). Also, Op units like these tend to get nerfed, I don't see how infantry-heavy faction can do against that in MP so it's clearly just temporary.
no the patch barely messed with the grail guardians, as someone who has played far too much Britonnia, the changes are not that useful to the failings of the faction, some of the problems are that Cav is still underpowered until you get higher tier(and even then it still might suck for other factions), questing knights are still crap, the campaign mechanics are boring, they still can't make walled settlements making defending land annoying, their infentry is shit besides for a few units(archers) which would not be bad if calvery was not so annoying to use, vows are not fun to deal with(and are required for fielding certain armies, such as the OP one you see in the video), chivalry takes FOREVER to build up, and a bunch of other minor issues.
Wow, Grail Cavalry just move through small units like butter. That's crazy to see Cavalry move like that in WH3... haha. Makes me want to try out a Bretonnia campaign
Was surprised that Legend didn't use them better than that. By trying to micro smaller groups he was actually less effective. Would have been better to keep them all in Lance, select all at once, and basically just click units to attack a few times before pulling everything out. The way he did it led to them getting stuck more often and dealing less damage since they weren't constantly colliding with units. The best use of this is to literally not have them sit and fight ever, always be only charging, nothing else, but by trying to micro to be more efficient they were often left standing and fighting with a unit instead of charging through.
Yeah, it wasn't super optimal. Getting this sort of a result in spite of that shows how strong it is.
He just said he was testing it.
It's done on purpose. The most efficent to play would have been to use AoE spells in the blob and throw the Mortis Engine Fay into it. Back in WH2, he used cavalry doomstacks like grail guardians as smaller groupes to isolate enemy units and kill them one by one. We already know it's very effective but micro intensive. It just shows how the units are even stronger than before.
@@guillaume9102 I think you missed my point. My point was that by trying to get clever and microing them in order to have different groups in different areas dealing with different things, it actually made them _less_ effective because it meant there were times they did get bogged down and were stuck in combat taking damage and didn't always have their charge bonus.
If he had just kept them all in a single group with all of them constantly selected, kept them in lance, and did nothing but click new attack orders, and maybe occasionally pull all of them out at once, they would have taken less damage since nothing would have much chance to hit them, while still dealing tons of collision damage.
I've seen other videos of people testing that kind of thing with large groups of either Grail Knights or Grail Guardians. They basically treat them like a stegadon or other single monstrous entity doomstack, but constantly clicking new attack orders to keep them charging in a single group. It's an easier, less micro-intensive, and yet also more effective way to use them. Basically, Legend tried to be too clever in the way he used them when it wasn't necessary.
Edited for formatting and clarity.
@@Vandelberger See my response to @guillaume9102.
The long and short is that by trying to put in more effort, Legend actually made both harder to use and less effective.
They are monstruous cavalry in the game archives despite showing normal cavalry, thats why they can ignore infantry now, also this is intended by CA and not an error
ermm i'm not sure demigryphs could do this and they very much are monstrous cav
It's 100% an error. Monstrous cavalry are "medium" size in the game, not "large" like grails are now. Hence why only grails perform this way, which CA did not intend.
@@spellbound1875 THis is how they should work though.
@@spellbound1875 Yes because clearly you KNOW what CA intended.
@@slickysan They've stated to multiple content creators that Grails being able to charge through braced halberds was not their intention, so yeah I feel pretty confident that I know CA's thoughts on the matter. They've told use them.
"There pull-out game is so strong" is so *chef's kiss*
''Their pullout game is strong that's for sure''
-LoTW
The size of Grail Guardians was MEDIUM in the past, but it was changed to LARGE in the current version, that is the reason they can easliy rush through the infantry. BTW, there were only two cavalry units with the LARGE size in this game in the past, they are Necropolis Knights from Tomb Kings and all cavalry units from Ogre Kingdom. Many so-called "Monster Cavalry" units including War Bear Riders from Kislev and Demigryph Knights from the Empire share the same size with most horse cavalry units.
Even the cavalry units of Khorne with Juggernaut can also be considered as horse cavalry because their sizes are Medium> No matter how heavy they are, they can not crush through the infantry easliy like Grail Guardians.
Now this is what Bretonnia is supposed to be
Yea this what one would expect from a cavalry faction. It really has been painful having half your army get stuck on a couple of units. Glad to see them finally doing something about it.
@@Dantaroen only 7 years :’)
And just the other day I thought blood knights should be brought down to 16-32 entities in order to make them what they should be.
Wait a sec! The Enchantress OUTRIGHT says "hear me, Lileath!" Not even hiding that it's a the elven goddess :P
She read The End Times.
@@fiveforbiting I pity her...
Nice to see cav acting like cav should, smashing through lines and punting units around ( i know it really only works for nonhistorical but still nice to see some OOMF behind the hits), also wish allied combat was a bit more common instead of just one faction v one faction.
Getting 600+ kills on the Enchatress's starting Grail Guardians was amazing.
the new grail knights/guardians plow through shit like they're god damn rohirrim
Everything I’ve seen makes me think not using lance formation is a mistake. The extra mass and acceleration are really useful now that Grail cav doesn’t get stuck.
16:35. Dear god, I need to play Bretonia, this looks just brutal and fun. This IS how Bretonia should feel like. You mow down everything with your cav!
It's beautiful to see.
And to do this, you just have to overcome the nightmare of getting attacked from 4 sides with only peasants in your army for about 50 turns.
7:52 - As a Daniel, he is not a great representation of us.
The scream from charging is very satisfying.
They're apparently bugged because they're more like Chariot in Heavy category than Medium for all Horse Cavalry, hence the crazy mass.
I thought that was confirmed intentional
Not a bug, grail guardians are insanely powerful in the lore so they probably felt it a bit weird that the guardians were just strong cavalry. They're more like demi gods now, as they should be
So we can finally live our Ride of the Rohirrim fantasy, awesome!
Lol even the hero on the horse got shoved by that big charge
Grail Guardians been a viable-ish doomstack even before this. Now... They really are unstoppable.
Wait a minute.. FINALLY Bretonnia is not useless anymore ?! OUI !
Bretonnia was never useless, the main problem with them is the campaign
Yeah finally useful minus the infantry units👍
@@darimikalam8965 Why they don't have infantry variants of knight units, I don't know. Would help fix their infantry problems.
@@TheBoxGhost_tm mostly because its against the lore, Brettonians tend to view riding on horses as figuratively(and literally) being above all the stinky peasants they have, so having them get off of their horses for any length of time would ruin the image a tad. The issue problems are intentional, though a dismount button (for every cavalry) would be quite nice in a lot of circumstances
Having played quite a bit of Brettonnia in WH 2, Grail Guardians were always very tanky thanks to their high meele defence. They could actually get stuck in and act as a frontline unlike Grail Knights who could be pretty squishy if they got bogged down. The fact that they can now just plow through infantry like nothing makes them kind of terrifying.
Unironically, this doomstack fits the same issue as the Lord of Change doomstack where it's "too strong". You really don't need more than half a stack to absolutely crumple enemy armies with Grail Guardians.
I mean, this and the Gryphon Doomstack were the only "good" units that the Bretonnians had. Now, FINALLY, these guys can compete with the flying doomstack.
If you like wasting your time you can defeat probably at least one basic army with just one Grail Guardian unit and a lore of life caster.
I have have gone after the ends of the army. They’re so slim and spread out you can bash the sides and rout them and then repeat cycle charges with the rest.
Plenty of time to heal and thin out the dangerous units with paladins
finally lore accuret grain guardians
Make safe the granary!
Now that is proper heavy cavarly!
Man I laughed so hard at that initial massive charge
Ahh almost as good as the ol medieval total war charge
this is awesome, medieval 2 calvary feeling again
Nice to see a lore accurate bretonnian charge.
This is so good , i hated so much when my elite cav was getting stuck in a unit of goblins in TWW2
That was my wife's exact comment to me! "Your pull-out game is strong, that's for sure!"
I AM a true son of Bwettoneugh after all.
auto resolve says heroic victory... thats all I need to know!
Imaging auto every battle!
Guardians can 100% put in work in substained combat. Just a couple units of them can easily kill full stacked armies when backed up by the enchantress
Since the AI would never make a "grail guardian doomstack" and this would be something a player controlled Bretonnia would enjoy so much in singleplayer, i really see no reason for this to be removed. This is the heavy cavalry charge fantasy any guy would ask for. I really don't care about multiplayer, they could remove bretonnia from multi alltogether if they wish to do so but i would love to use this relatively easy to build / really fun doomstack in my current and future campaigns. Also, all the bretonnia has is their high tier cavalry, their other units are completely among the worst in their respective jobs, so, at least they have an excuse to have a "OMG WTF" calibre of cavalry in their roster. Maybe it's cost can be doubled, or tripled tho. It seems, from this video, any LL, 3 paladins and only a half stack of grail guardians could also destroy these armies if you were to play really all in.
This is how calvary performed on Three Kingdoms and I love it 😀 😍
mass change made them completely insane, definition of top tier cavallry
if you go for a full cav doomstack control groups are NEEDED imo. those full blob charges are way less effective than a from all flanks charge. great video tho !
*resists to urge to make constant jokes about pulling out*
Do you think the mass changes have done the same to Blood Knights and Black Coaches? Because if so...the counts might have gotten a lot scarier.
Definitely not, only grail guardians have this much pushing power right now, while grail knights have good pushing power, they can't completely ignore infantry.
That's why it's grail guardians in this video, not grail knight.
@@vasa1412 Grail Knights have the same mass changes. Fey just starts with Guardians, and they are slightly more elite.
The main effect comes from the entity size being changed from medium to large (chariot level)
@@fiveforbiting Nope, have tested myself, there is a hidden change done to grail guardian only which allows them to completely ignore infantry. Grail knight has the same amount changes on paper, but they do not have the ability to perform as well as grail knight, and the difference is actually huge
@@Verg1l0 Open the database in the mod tool and see if they're Chariot scale or not.
the trick here that every knight have 1500 mass so...this is why infantry is just foliage
Just wondering if units with expert charge defence would be able to hold up, like some of the dwarfs as they normally have kinda high mass them selves.
Heavy Infantry braced does indeed hold up. Ironbreakers for example.
Lance formation doubles the effect :O
I wonder if the Grail Reliquae doomstack is still the same as it was when Legend tested it.
Who wants to make the honors of sending?
The first video I've been disappointed with in a long time. Was hoping for some cool calvary charges, but instead, it was just a bunch of blobs.
holy shit actually viable cavalry in total war warhammer, that's amazing!!!! fcking rohirims let's gooooooooooooàoooo
It looks cool and all but i feel like braced expert charge defence infantry should atleast do damage upon impact like in three kingdoms. Right now anti cavalry infantry are so bad (against the player)
I wonder if they forget to adjust the units mass with nearly halving the entities. So making them even better :)
Will always love these videos man
Ye mate wow your patience to reform wait , tease them so gorgeous
Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden!
spear shall be shaken, shield shall be splintered,
a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
Ride now, ride now, ride! Ride for ruin and the world's ending!
Death! Death! Death!
Forth Eorlingas!
I am quite experienced in campaigns on Legendary+VeryHard (1000+ hrs only WH3), but still can't make cavalry army working. Tried with Kislev last time, basically my Gryphon Legion + 4 war sleds army is useless against any stack with monsters or t2+ infantry. I reckon that problem is not only the unit, but my skill also. Any tips on controlling 16 units of cavalry at the same time?
Lower the difficulty. There is no other cav in the game that performs half as well as this.
Does this changes affect all Cavalries or only Bretonnians one ?
Also this armor piercing is also a big buff IMO
Only grail knights & grail guardians. The other cav have been slightly improved, but they still get stuck.
20:02 "well their pull out game is strong, thats for sure"
Imagine Grail Knights riding Demigryphs.
Paladins just deleted the flyers. Love this army.
That upkeep makes me physically ill
That first charge! Holy...
This is how I envision Dark elves cavalry should work. Perhaps with even smaller number of models per unit.
I think I'd prefer the army as is. Anti large army for a few monsters doesn't seem add up. That's what the paladins are for.
By ze lady, it truly is a glorious sight to see. Now just make the green knight a legendary hero for either fay enchantress or leoncoeur and ill be happy. and _dont_ tell CA to change it dammit!
Dammit my scottish man respects u to death and ive fought to the death my upbringing , wish u controlled our shotgun shuts and rifles but ye mostly melee glasgow bats and blades
Does bretonia still suffer from terrible army replenishment though? that was one of my biggest gripes about playing them. waiting a good 3 turns or so for an army to heal up after it went through a ruff fight was.... PAINFUL. especially when im use to Empire and HE where they can pretty much fully heal from the worst fights on the first turn.
Carcassone gives you a flat +15% factionwide and if you put mage heroes in your army you can get some more. Yeah otherwise its dwarf tier .
at 3:49 "this human disappoints me" but not his horse apparently
Theoden approves of this stack
Sounds like I need to up my ratling gun budget.
my inability to pull out is a weakness too
so strong it wouldnt be fair to engage them with all the cav at the same time
really hope CA never nerd them again, I have so fun playing Bretonnia right now
i think legend is way too paranoid about rampage grail guardians from the last patch would barely get damaged by these armies the new ones won't get touched
The thing is all bretonian Knights provide a temporary ITP AoE when charging which includes immune to rampage. That's why there was no way he would have had to worry about it
@@danielalvarezberdugo1622 only knights errant have the aoe itp grail units always had normal itp and rampage is a contract effect like poison so it would still effect the knights
@@danielalvarezberdugo1622 ITP doesnt have anything to do with rampage effects
@@danielalvarezberdugo1622 lmao imagine being this confidently wrong
*RIDE TO RUIN! AND TO THE WORLD’S EDGE MOUNTAINS!*
Have Demigryff Knights been buffed like this?
Is cavalry finally good again?
Thank you Legend!
So... after those changes cavalry is finally working like it's supposed to do?
In Warhammer if Empire is "Vanilla" then Bretonia is "French Vanilla"
Does this only work for bretonia now pr does it also work for Franz Rohirim?
This is just for the grail guardians/knights? Other shock cavalry in the game remains the same?
I don't think he was even doing the charging right, he could have abused their extraordinary mass more even. Seems like every model would make it through a straight charge, then when ur clear of the mob turn around and do it again. When you turn around in melee when the enemy is near it'll get a hit in the back.
They finally gave them enough credit rating for proper charging!!!
Finally Rohirim! Working😂
grail knights are now SFO units
Thanks, Legend. It's nice to see cavalry get some upgrade and its playstyle is quite different. And satisfying.
holy shit i need to start a bretonnia campaign!
I believe that grail gaurdians and knights can get 33% ward save in total.
8% from red line end buff when GG and GK have rank 8
10% from tecnology
15% from blessing of the lady
If not more with other buffs etc, this was playing as alberic's faction so has potential to get higher?
8+10+15= 33 lol but i think you are correct
@@thib0958 right you are! I'll change it lol
You also could steal a hero with +Save to the army, or get Luminarks from Empire ally for another +10 wardasave. Luminark wardsave is an aura, tho, that doesn't play super-well with mobile armies.
I have over 2k hours between warhammer 2 and 3, and I’ve never played a human faction besides trying Cathay. Might be time to fight for the lady.
So you implying Chinese are not people? Strangely based if we are talking commies.
Ride for ruin and the red Dawn!
FINALLY cavalry is actually good !