The critique livestream happened! You don't need to comment your handles anymore lol. Thanks to everyone that participated. Here's a link to the video! ruclips.net/video/Pq_inrLGv14/видео.html
I hate the fact that those pages that post art from other artists gets more visibility than the artists themselves, and they don't even do anything, some even put their @'s at the very end of a long description...then they even make money "promoting" less viewed artists
agreed.. I just finished a 15 hour artwork and posted it on many different places.. not many likes yet (hoping to get at least some reach with the post).. meanwhile accounts that just post other artist's work are getting followers galore.. Good thing I don't draw just for the following and likes or else I would have given up long ago.. Instagram does not feel like a space to make new artists grow a following.. it's a place to have people pay Imstagram promotions to maybe be allowed to grow a following.
@@skrimaging you nailed the whole point right there. And you're doing it the right way, never for the followers or likes but for self growth, it's the best way to do it because Instagram is really unfair for artists most of the time.
Yep. This is exactly why they are so effective. They can select the best of the best artwork, and post regularly. And if they embrace a theme, even better. Thats will almost always attract an audience faster than an individual.
@@ergojosh It really sucks, before I made I art IG page I was following lots of those pages because I never even realised they weren't the ones doing the artwork, then I started to look past the art into the descriptions and found out the artists @'s hidden way down the discriptions, then I just unfollow and follow the artists
i hate those "art curators" half the time they don't even credit the artist correctly or at all. i usually search for the actual person who made the work to like, save and follow.
consistent posting of the same style is hard when you're still trying to find your style and things you like to create. Also it can make art not fun anymore when you're always thinking about how your art will be received by others
at the same time, not it's logic that people won't follow you as much. If People A like only a certain type of drawing, and people B another type but you draw both style, then they won't follow ur account because half of the time they won't like it. If you don't already have a style you should post not to gain followers but to try to maybe develop a style of your own (as a way to worok on it consistently). Then, when you will have an artstyle, the audience from a specific nice will come naturally.
Ive stopped posting on my art account for the past 3 or four weeks, and it’s crazy how much has changed. My understanding of anatomy has improved ten fold, i’ve been studying expressions, other artists styles and much more. Without the pressure of the toxic instagram algorithm dictating what i do, when i do it and how i do it, I have been doing so much better. Even with a following of less than 500 I felt the pressure of the algorithms, and its so crazy how much subconscious pressure you put on yourself as a result of the pressure already present. This video was super informative, I can tell you so many people agree. Thank you :)
I haven't posted for about a month and I lost my motivation, so I just decided to watch different things and get motivation from different places. I think one of the reasons I have lost my motivation is because of my low storage. I'm starting to get my motivation back but my storage isn't helping :')
As a small content creator it’s frustrating to try to find the time to create something because of a very busy lifestyle and when I do have the time to create something and post it and it doesn’t get noticed sucks But those god damn picture frames of motivational quotes telling you to hustle and keep practicing is playing devils advocate! So the way I see it, do what u can when u can just as long as “you” enjoy what your doing in that moment!
Jazza does different things now, but beforehand he used to focus on animation tutorials. Before that he spent time developing relationships with Flash game creators and other artists on Newgrounds. Even now he is still sticking to the same niche, which is variety. He just sells it well because he spent so much time building his audience. Personally, I think he is brilliant at marketing himself.
I'm not sure having more likes and followers on social media directly relates to more sales for independent artists either, since each social media platform has different click-through rates. I feel like building a dedicated group of supporters might be more lucrative than a large audience of followers.
naamoreng What you're saying is true and I definetly understand why algorithms work this way. At the same time I'm getting ostracized by algorithms on all social media platforms. Even if I draw every day there are only very few drawings I feel are good enough to finish and post online so I usually end up posting only one or at best two drawings a month. I have somewhat come to accept it. In 2019 I really drew a lot of stuff that was more targeted towards my few followers but in the end it made me hate art so I already know I can only keep going mentally if I draw the things I want to draw for myself. I didn't want to look at my old drawing anymore and scrapped most of them... haven't made followers since then. But hey I'm still kind of a beginner so maybe things will get better when I have the skills to show off.
In all honestly, this has to be the best advice for artists I have ever heard. As nice as it is, sometimes the Art community just tends to look at everything with rose-tinted glasses. Sometimes you just have to make hard decisions and commit to a narrow path to achieve success.
I do both art and photography but I rarely post on instagram. I totally understand the consistency thing, it’s why I separate the art, photography and writing with different names. I would also separate like types of things.
people that give their time are doing it bc you give some kind of value to them. yea that makes sense this video was really clear cut / concise and insightful.
Thinking about it, it is often better to do the same thing consistently to effectively avoid choice paralysis and an art block. But it could be a trap if one isn't careful either. So to choose the best of both worlds, I could post something consistent for the week and then something unique at the weekend. Like consistently drawing pretty girls for the whole week then mechas and badass bros at the weekend. Man your insight is what I needed this part of my journey. Thanks!
As an artist who posts comics for only one fandom every single day, I can confirm that all of this is true. A few years ago I basically just posted whatever I wanted, most of the time fanart for various Japanese pop culture. Then I created a random fanpage for Miraculous Ladybug where I only posted poorly drawn sketches and comics and yet, it blew up and got over 100k subs. Some rules I'd follow if you really want to get into the Instagram game. (If you just like posting whatever you want then please don't follow these rules) 1. Mainly post fanart for one single fandom OR fanart for fandoms that are part of the same "group" (Example: Amphibia + The owl house or Steven Universe + OK KO) 2. Add comic bubbles. Even if it's just a single one, This will double the engagement. 3. Post something that people will comment on. Ask a short question in your caption or share an unpopular opinion for example. 4. Post every day. It might seem hard at first but you'll get used to it. As I said eralier, the quality of the art is not that important. You can also "reuse" your own assets in your art to make your work flow faster. 5. Let people repost your work. Just make sure to have a distiguishable style and a watermark. Note: I don't make any money with it. I'm just a random high school student who draws for fun but maybe this was helpful to someone.
Nothing related to this video but I'd like to address an issue of something that made me give another reason why I hate about Instagram more than ever: It just every time I post some art on my page I always get a few comments from a few different accounts thats says the same thing like : "nice art,dm it (@insert_random_art_account or whatever that is) I thought its so weird and suspicious at the same time, turned out these accounts are just some feature pages for artist that want money to feature they even give you the list of their prices and they were high ,for example the highest prices they have is post+story+highlight+star of the week+mention in bio is 45$, these pages has 2 millions followers but it was a fake number because they only had 4 comments on each drawing featured. So they're totally faking to take money from artists sooooooo in other words these accounts are nothing but bots and all of them are SCAM!! this is what makes me hate instagram more for not taking care of these issues smh
They are spam bots and I am nearly convinced that it is a scam. 🤖I have spoken to a few people that fell for them and it is not worth your money at all! The accounts have fake engagement and their followers are mostly unreal as well.👻 They all look oddly similar and use the same method. Some even have stolen artworks, so just block them on sight! 🚫IG has started to shut them down but you can also protect your account from them by filtering the spam comments out. 🛡️Go to your settings, to privacy, to comments and turn the manual filter on. Type in words like DM, feature, Collab, promote, ambassador, s4s, follow, promo, promotion. That should help to keep them away.🤺🤺🤺 If you see them in other people’s comments, report them for spam so that we can get rid of them faster! Don’t fall for them and keep yourself and your friends save from this bot invasion!🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖
mister_hipster_designs I've been a graphic designer for years, and finally started drawing more and more in my free time a few years ago. Found an art style I really resonate with and stuck to it. IG may not seem to give me many likes on many of the things I post, but the people that do see it really appreciate it, I sell work in person and I get lots of positive feedback, including from other artists. I post every day but don't kill myself doing it. I found that if I spend less time on IG and more on art, I actually improve at something that I care about instead of worrying about whatever the algorithm likes that day. Thanks for being a voice of reason, Josh. Maybe I'll see you at an art show around ATL sometime.
pineappiefriend ; this video was so helpful actually. youre totally right about how people invest in time in something they want to see regularly and arent ready to just have to see whatever different style ur trying that day. im guilty of feeling bad about having art thats totally inconsistent but i also cant stand not exploring different ways of drawing and painting and all... i feel like its limiting to be consistent all the time unless you`ve really reached that pro level
we shouldn't just be okay with the algorithm, that's not how the world works. we cant accept anything they throw at us. if we had that attitude towards everything we would be miserable. Instagram needs us artists and creators in general. Without us they wouldn't exist.
As an artist, I get what you're trying to say, but let's be realistic here. Visual artists do very little for instagram (Monetarily) compared to all the other type of content creators they have on there.
After watching this video I get why he's doing that, if he didn't and drew what he wanted he wouldn't have the likes which is sad. He's very talented but most people are only following his page for the attractive art. But his talent is being shown so that’s the best thing. At least on RUclips he has fans who are artists and he gets to communicate with them.
@@damianogiolitti3416 it's not a problem per se, it just illustrates the point in this view. Is he capable of different kinds of people? Probably. But it does not reflect in his art.
@@koifishflavor The comparaison with landscapes is kinda wrong in this context. You can be a landscape artist and still have more variety to your art that someone who only paint pretty women. A better comparaison could be landscape artists that only represent one type of environnement,like mountains with fantasy elements or cyberpunk-ish city in nighttime.
Good points, this is always something that’s bothered me about IG which is why I try not to pressure myself into posting for the sake of posting. The truth is that I am 33, and I’ve been drawing seriously since I was a teenager, but I have always liked so many different facets of art. If I were to categorize what I find the most compelling subject/genre, I would say dark surrealism/horror. However, I also really love to draw portraits, observational nature drawing etc… If I like the end result I will post it. I have thought of making another account to post my daily sketches and doodles, almost as an experiment, but also as a way to develop the muscles to churn out an image I actually like on a daily basis (eventually). Also, I’ve found Reddit to be useful when I feel washed out and uninspired. The r/drawme is a great place to practice, but aside from that, it’s nice having another place to post your work, and I’ve actually gotten some work through it. At the end of the day, I think that the point you made about connecting with other artists (in a genuine/honest way) is really important-especially people around your skill level, or a little above or below. It’s great to feel like you’re not alone on this journey. Great video 100%!
As a photographer and artist here, they both take a lot of time depending on what you shoot 😅 I shoot fashion/beauty and sometimes editing an image can take hours so it's not always at the press of a button, not as long as a lot of artwork for sure but still, it is very time-consuming a lot of the time!
Yeah, it’s not just "produce content at the press of a button", I’m passionate in digital drawing and photography and there are times where I can make a couple decent drawing and in the meantime I can’t seem to shoot anything worth posting
Awesome video! It's really nice to hear from somebody who gets the business side of things "You don't get paid as much as the boss, because the boss has a job that is more critical to the success of the platform." So many people don't get this! I see people thinking they should only have to do the bare minimum to get anywhere, so I really appreciated that point!
This was a helpful video big bro!💪🏾 the mindset you described for artists to have when dealing with instagram is actually the mindset that comes naturally to me at my regular day job, ill give what you said a try and we’ll see how it goes.
j.art_w I think this is why I really didn’t bother to post a lot these days. I remember posting at least 3 times a week and basically it’s just sketches, finishes and WIP but each likes gets fewer and fewer. It’s definitely demoralizing to know whether I have improved or not. It’s been almost a year since I post and I felt slightly better not being a slave to the algorithm. That way I could draw without this mental pressure and see how far I can go without some AI affecting what is considered success. I felt like posting from time to time but perhaps waiting until I see my own improvements is a lot better than stressing myself.
I think this is an interesting topic in the Digital age. As everyone, including some companies, are indeed sourcing artists from digital platform like instagram, CGSociety, Artstation, artists can be tricked into believing that the like count and views that carry over from Deviant Art, Twitch, RUclips, Instagram, Twitter, Tumblr, Patreon, and Artstation equates to jobs. And that's a whole other issue because while the view count "doesn't matter" you can't be an artist with no online portfolio and just contact a company for work. They specifically ask for online portfolios. So then that just branches off into social media and the feedback loop of "Im getting likes but no work" and "They work at a studio and have zero online presence". Something no one has noticed is how the topic went from "What brushes do you use" to now "What is your equipment set up". Ive noticed that people who, somehow, go out and spend $10s of thousands of dollars on expensive cameras, Cintiqs etc become the "authority" on how to make it as an artist. EVEN THOUGH you can SEE they have no studio work to speak of and their art has only grown since people started paying attention because they bought all the equipment FIRST and then learned to draw. This is another trick to young artists. I think people should do one simple thing: Dont buy into people saying "draw what you love", "Stay on your grind", "Draw what makes you happy", "Curate content", etc etc. This is ONLY if you are looking for studio work. (If you're self-publishing, personal booths at cons, self-publishing on webtoons, and stuff like that? By ALL means do what you like like Jake Parker, Jason Brubaker, Tenapel, Mcranie, etc) These are companies, looking for workers, to sign NDAs (So they dont give a shit about your online presence) to do the grunt work within a deadline to finish a project. They all have bosses and they need to get things done and fast. Method that ive seen, and used, in the past? Create a formal email not necessarily applying for a job. But INQUIRING about upcoming projects that they could use assistance on, time you can dedicate, your portfolio examples : (Strong suits can be dominate, but dont be afraid to throw in some oddballs-70% character design (IF this is your strong-suit), 15%weapons, 10%color studies, 5%props, or something like that) 7 times out of 10 they will review and log you application. If something goes belly up or they change direction, instead of sourcing new profiles they will go with what they have logged. It's a tricky game out there finding work. NO easy way to do it and just because some one is on youtube, don't assume they have studio work to their credit. Don't even assume they totally understand how to monetize social media.
Me, a photographer: Agrees with everything said. Josh: ...like photographers. They can really just make content at a press of a button. Me again: Excuuuuseeee meeeeee, ha, I WISH!!!! (I get what you mean, though; however that was a really poor choice of words)
@@corbern8144 Same! I mean, I get what he means, but being a clueless teen with a selfie who become an ''influencer'' and self claimed ''content creator'' and gets a stupid amount of sponsors, reach, and contracts just by ''dancing'' on TIktok and Instagram is DIFINETLY NOT THE SAME as being a photographer, that comment was straight up off base.
jackysurelyyouwouldntdraw This video was comforting in a way because I always had that image of more likes = better artwork and I would get super down on myself because my posts weren't performing well. At the same time its so hard to grow organically on IG and when I tried to post more consistently my quality went down and I would be get burned out quickly which is counter intuitive when you think about it. It's a constant struggle to remind myself that just because I barely get any likes on a post that it's not always my fault. All I can control is the quality of my art and so I should make it to the best of my ability. I appreciate the video!
This was so inspiring to watch. I've been struggling with my art life for the last few years because I never know what direction to go. Hopefully stuff gets better with this kind of work ethic though. Thank you 🙏
selkieselenite I feel it is especially difficult as a traditional artist. Even when I follow trending topics (like Mermay or dtiys) it's not getting the same amount of attention as digital art. But anyway, I would never give up my watercolours as it is pure bliss to paint with them. :)
Ottergoat I always really enjoy your videos on how real and laid back they are as well as your amazing soothing voice! And in this video I really needed to hear this, instagram seems to indeed favor the consistent posts more than anything else and the fact that theres always a real human being with needs, desires behind it makes you really think that we as artist sometimes feel like these empty headed machines that just gotta keep on drawing on end! Thank you for these amazing high quality videos! And your art is AMAZING! ^^
Since IG added the option to hide likes, I somehow started ignoring numbers overall, ignoring most trends and such. I magically got so much better at art, which also got me commission work. Sometimes this feeling of not being good enough to be recognized creeps back into my head, but I'm glad I found my way to be creative again.
I think artists (I’m one) should begin entering competitions for magazines and studios and so on. Followings and likes on Instagram can kill ones confidence and can also make an artist lose focus on what really matters. I recently won a competition to be featured in an “epoch magazine in Scotland” and most of my art posts don’t even reach 100 likes anymore.
This video was really insightful, especially since I have not thoroughly decided on my motivations. I get stuck between wanting to build a following, but also improving my skills to eventually work in the industry. I still want to post on Instagram, but I am now going to start improving my skills more.
I like this video! Though a thing I disagree with is the start... The part about photographers being able to create content at the press of a button. This is technically true but I feel like it downplays their work. Photographers have to get the right composition, the lighting, the focus, etc. And after doing that, they then have to edit it to make it perfect. I just don't want to act like their work is easy and doesn't take much effort while us artists have to "slave away for hours and hours". And that's because, to me, they're also artists. Even if they aren't taking a pen to a piece of paper or screen.
Jwynnart Thank you so much for making this! I really needed this as I've been feeling down and anxious because of the strict schedule I made for myself to the point that not posting for a week makes me so scared. It felt like I'm invisible to the community, and that no one can really see my art. Your video really changed my perspective! I'll start drawing at my own pace and just enjoy the process😊
It seems Instagram is saturated for Artists or even in any area. Once your work gets traction you get your art noticed by people, but to even get that traction is VERY HARD. So that doesn't always mean constancy or the same posts give you support, sometimes it's luck, or they like fanart or something. Now I just post the art I like and don't care anymore, at least if one person sees my work and likes it I'm okay with that. It's better to have people really like your work and what it stands for rather than just getting a like from random people who aren't fans. I want to go into being a concept artist or character designer so I used IG to get my art out there because I don't have any other way to get people to notice my work.
I feel like I'm in the same boat as u. What's your IG? I don't even post that much anymore because I'm constantly working towards my dream and just having fun with my art
To get opportunities in the industry, I recommend using more professional sites like Artstation or LinkedIn, and being quite active there. Constantly looking out for jobs, networking etc. It's possible to get jobs through regular social media, but definitely takes a lot more time with all the visual noise.
Jasperedain ;) Also I feel like this has summed up why I’ve been so frustrated trying to create a community on IG, I think I get too distracted by the new “shiny” style I see and completely yeet the old one, but also never give my self enough time to even get good at it. I’ve recently just committed to purely learning and that has relieve a ton of my stress.
We're just saying, in comparison to other forms of art like illustration, film, and even sport, photography has a low skill ceiling and low potential. Taking a picture of a beautiful landscape may require some hiking and effort, but if someone else can do it to a relatively similar degree, then it's not worth as much praise.
Worked in both and for photography you must research which takes lots of time, have to know your gear well, you need to train your creativity, set up the whole scene etc. Then depending on your field for example if you work in fashion - have to set up the gear, all the lights, background etc, tell the model how to pose, upload images on computer, edit them. Sometimes if you work for big agencies someone will do the editing istead of you, but you still have so much work that you easily fill in 40+ hours per week. Same as you learn how to draw perspective, hands and etc. you must learn how to set up lighting, how the depth of field works, the exposure triangle too. If you are visual artist using photography it literally takes the same amount as painting/drawing artist. You still have to upload online, think of new ideas, experiment to find new ways of taking photographs, create big concepts (as making a book), networking, writing artist statement. It's more than just pretty pictures of landscapes and dogs. The fact this content is famous on Instagram, it doesn't mean that's the whole photography industry. As Josh said, people doing good work don't upload as much, not because they don't want to, but they have a good job and not enough time. People, we are not in 18th century, Photography is Art. It probably must be hard to see someone more famous with more money than you, but assuming things is just plainly ignorant. photobookstore.co.uk/ www.icp.org shop.mocp.org/collections/fine-prints
@@londonworkman7617 I'm not talking about simple pics of your nearby park or beautiful place. Art Photography is way more than this and takes the same amount of time as the other arts.
charlottenoelleart For me it's really difficult to post similar stuff on Social Media. It is just that I can't "decide" on a certain art style because everytime I draw something my style changes... But thank you so much for your videos! I always love listening to them.
This is all really good information and helpful for growing a following. BUT the problem with following this wisdom can lead to hours, even entire days, of just figuring out how to make our marketing better. That will alter the art that we create and share. If we're creating stuff JUST to make our followers happy, at the expense of our own creative freedom, that's putting ourselves in a cage, working for an algorithm - and not for what we really want to see in the world. Just my thoughts and my experience
Eyyyy, so many things to talk about in this video! I like the reference to Feng Zhu's explanation that prof artists are skilled and simply post art they like doing on their accounts. It's by no means what got them to their current skill levels and jobs. Technical art isn't always flashy.... Most of the time, it isn't!
Your are spot on. I'm a full time graphic designer working in a tabletop gaming company and I don't have time to plan my Instagram. I just post whatever it is I'm working on and my hobby projects. This is why I don't have any sizeable audience.
I've been thinking about this for a while. And most of the problem I see is all these cliques and crews that bundle up together and only worry about each other. And Josh is a part of that. They only like each other stuff they share each other stuff. They only follow eachother and whoever Ethan Becker says to follow. You follow. Loish, Ethan, Ramon90 and the list goes on.
Yes bro, because even you do it, thats good, is teamwork, friends support each other. I like all the photos of my friends because that is what means friendship.
Avramtagai You're on point on why the instagram algorithm act like it does and it's really sucks comparing to the old version i built my following in, ever since the changes to the algorithm have started i lost my motivation to post and slowly started losing followers, i hone from 12k to 8000 in a matter of few months and it's very discourage me to a point i started having doubt about my own skills for some time until i just stopped giving a f**k lol.
Yup, everyone is drawing them pinterest girls which can give you a good chance to stand out of the rest of the sheeps. You'll be noticed if you stop obsessing over the algorithm and focus on the quality and authenticity of your art.
ifgalaxyart Thank you for this video, it was really interesting to hear….I started to post artworks consistently weekly 4/5 weeks ago (because now I am older and would like to it seriously…) and I hope me dreams can one day go true
This is a very bad analogy Josh, the boss without the employees is nothing and earns nothing. the employees are what drives clients and payment not the other way around, the bosses work often is nothing since they can employee someone to do their job. For example, Elon Musk. He doesn't do anything, the engineers working on his company do the work, but its the boss that gets most of the revenue of the company. The boss and employee analogy doesn't work and its very flawed.
He doesn’t do anything? That’s super naive, Elon musk doesn’t just sit on his ass all day. Sure maybe he doesn’t do any physical labor but he plans massive projects, makes huge risky decisions, ect. . His work is even harder than the employees which is why he’s the one doing it.
@@DING1o1 tai here is underestimating someone's work just like josh mentioned in his video. If elon musk did nothing how did he become the elon musk he is now.
@@aaaccc7173 you can replacelabors with money anytime tho. The boss does the decisions whi h make the money. There will always be someone to find to work for you
I agree with everything except for the jab at photographers... doing their work requires travel, time of day and post work. Illustrators just gotta sit there and draw and that can be done anytime.
exactly... as someone who is not a photographer, it is still pretty obvious that in order to upload good content a lot of work is needed. His perception of photography is the same perception a lot of people have about digital art.
@@jdonnelly1977 Also funny that you think illustrators can make art “anytime” as if we don’t have busy schedules or lives too. Dude, it’s not that easy…art takes time and dedication.
thivussoi I really appreciate your explanation of the algorithm. Sometimes I feel like the algorithm is actively trying to hide me because I'm still experimenting with my art, and it gives me a lot of anxiety when I'm about to post something that I've worked really hard on. But sometimes I need to remind myself that I draw for fun, not fame. I'm not yet willing to sacrifice growth to increase my following. Maybe one day, but not now.
lord_canelox Actually, i dont think about likes anymore, i realized that when in my house there wasn't internet (before 2014) i was drawing everyday just for fun and enjoyment, and the only ones that knew my drawings were my friends. Today, I draw for fun like always but i post it on instagram for my friends that are far away.
huzaahhh I feel like I'm still in the exploration stage and I don't think I'm ever going to leave soon, cuz it's so much fun rather than doing the same thing over and over again...even tho I do have the intention to grow the account I just couldn't afford to be consistent everyday. What I realized is : at least I should draw with a purpose. And I am doing it for the fun of it. So in the end, we shouldn't validate ourselves with the number of likes, but just be proud of your work and practice posting it online. --the growth of followings will come along if it's really meant to be.
JamesC.Draws I've been struggling with thoughts on my future as an artist in this industry and what path I want to take. Your words are beyond helpful Josh, Mega appreciate the Insight. 🙏
BGIllustrations I really appreciate this video because it just reminds me why social media exist and why the algorithm works the way it works. I don’t really have a desire to work in the industry. I want to work for myself and create what I want, but I know in order to do that, I need to be consistent with my work and be strategic. Pretty much a one man marketing department. This is sad to say but you gotta work the system if you want to survive.
at 8:14 i was pleased that someone actually told me thanks for reason that i dont use adblock. i turned off adblock so long ago to support my colleague. to be honset adds are brain pain but supporting feels way more better. thanks for great video
The algorithm is like The Godfather. If you do work...you're rewarded. If you do want to do the work then...you have to pay up to be seen. And if you tell the algorithm *beep* you then...that's your *beep*. You'll be hidden under the bay of artists with cement shoes.
That analogy does not apply to the artist on IG at all. We aren't employed by IG but are part of the IG consumer base. When people complain about the app it is complaining about their poor service to us as consumers which is a valid complaint if the app does not enforce policies that protect people's IPs and allow others to benefit from our collective works. The algorithm isn't an issue so I agree with you on this. The issue is people taking our images to benefit from the algorithm and IG not enforcing copyright laws the same way RUclips does. They are generating ad revenue and in turn stealing from us if they are allowing their "employees" to benefit from our work.
vfxrishi :) You speak the truth about how much work it is to build an audience. And since I'm still a beginner (not young tho lol, I'm 26) artist, I'm still trying to figure out how far I want to take my art - still in that exploratory phase, tho I'm starting to figure it out. I'm just too lazy to post every day,,, or even every month 😅 😅 😬
This really helps cause I tend to get frustrated cause I don't know if people are gonna like my art or cause I don't have time to draw as much to post a drawing every day, thanks ergo 😊
linkalipski I like your analogies and what you say is what I have been thinking too. Thank you for your content 🤍 I would add that for some of us, the difficulty is not just a question of consistency in terms of regularity, but also in terms of content. Not every artist likes working with one genre or medium. Multidisciplinary artists are misunderstood and seen as "all over the place". Creating separate accounts for each subgenre or medium would mean posting very little on multiple accounts so that is not feasible. Another difficulty is that people with disabilities (physical and/or mental) are the first ones to fall through the trap. Creating quality art regularly and consistently is not always possible for people living with chronic illnesses or battling acute depression for instance. There is definitely a case of algorithm privileging able-bodied people. I personally no longer post much even though I want to. Truthfully I want to post like in the early days: not take hours preparing a photo, just a quick snap of anything art-related and forget about the magazine-like curation. I've tried a bit but it just messes up the feed and I still spend so long editing photos. I am no longer having fun... and I miss that so much. Instagram is no longer a place that inspires and encourages me to create, but a place where I feel instant shame as an artist 😔.
Except that you miss the point entirely imo: with the old "chronological order", people were still staying on the app AND curating what they wanted to "invest" in. But Insta changed to favour paid content and big accounts while making it even harder for smaller ones to get any traffic their way... without paying, which was the point of it (and the same process Fb went through). So even if you want any "value" out of your account, it's only about capitalistic issues/turns Insta took, and not an "organic" one (a.k.a. how "humans work") and it's still an awful and shitty change ^^". I try to create a "business" I guess, but can't post that often and I get squashed because I came after the change. I started slowly growing before it happened, and that stopped instantly despite me posting the "same things" :/ (and I'm small and "junior" etc, I know that, but it's still fucked up for so many reasons ^^). I guess I'm saying that I disagree big time with your conclusions and advice to "roll with it and the algo is just ok and not to blame", because there is a lot to blame and that should very much change. Even more when you think about the ethics of pushing people to always produce more, faster, etc that goes with that "industries" and capitalistic approach :/. I'll try to invest more on building an audience though, but that's not "the way things work" and we can disagree with capitalism and the fucked up ways insta work/handle all of this :) (even if we don't have the choice for now, but if we protest enough you know... ^^). "Work is work and it's like that" doesn't hold up either and it doesn't have to "be like that". The systems are precisely fucked up in so many ways around these big issues, work could even be redefined phylosophically speaking. Anyway, sorry for the novel, it's just that the whole video was pretty heavily oriented in the classic capitalistic and productivist ways of conceiving things, wielding big "truth" like "it's like that, always has been, it can't change" while... it's a fabricated system... it doesn't have to be like that and can change, let's ask for it ! ^^ Edit: the old algo was way more "democratic" and had more "equity" built-in. The new one promotes capitalism, elitism and classism, like... well most of every systems in existence that tends to get worse and crush everything ^^".
I'm a artist myself and I have been struggling with it for awhile, I try to post everyday but still I only get about 16 to 20 likes. I takes about a couple hours to draw my artwork. I don't mind my account doing bad because I only do art for fun and like to post it so people can see it. another problem I have seen is that people either post art without crediting the original artist or when they repost the art the repost gets more likes than the original art. Another thing is that most followers I have are not even active or they follow me but never get my post. Also great video, I am not old enough to make money but I saw this video and decided to watch it.
I prefer artstation than Instagram. Because it is somuch art related, in instagram some cringy people suddenly come up doing unintelligible things which is not for artists, it just breaks my mind
poppylineart Posting everyday is quite difficult and almost impossible for people with a job or studies, that's frustrating to spend hours in a drawing which won't be seen because of this algorithm. But I understand that people want to follow artists who are able to post a lot of pictures in their unique style
That why I sometimes hate my creativity. I can't stick to a specific style to build a business with my art. So I think I stay in shadow for my entire life, or maybe create an art course to share my huge knowledges before I die. But Instagram and social media is enough... I made a cross on it, it's definitely not for me.
turquoiselines Even as someone who isn't trying to make a living off of their art, this was a very interesting video that gave me a new perspective on how I think of my followers; thankfully, I think I can say I've been on a good path to consistency recently, but I probably wouldn't of reached that point if I hadn't had the freedom to not worry about building an audience and being able to just experiment and try new things. The more I played around, though, the more I found the things that I wanted to consistently present to people and it's resulted in a noticeable increase in my engagement, which makes me happy.
kiraizuma I struggle a lot with visibility in social media to the point where I dont care about followers and likes anymore. I started art because I truly love it and wanted to make a living out of this on instagram and other platforms, but since a lot of artists are doing a lot of things, feels impossible to innovate. And theres no way I'll post everyday. Quality over quantity. Always.
gleamiarts i've kind of given up on my instagram tbh i prefer tiktok and tumblr a lot more. every now and then i schedule a post to go on there. i used to be worried about making my page consistent but it was impacting on my art negatively and i became frustrated with how i was pigeonholing myself. nowadays i don't care and post what i want
art.of.daisaka Nice video, m8. Really helps put things into a fair perspective. I know quite a few peeps who seem very obsessed with having others liking/sharing/saving their work but they haven't really put enough effort into making quality content. or consistent content. Then the complaints roll on in about algo.
TheOneWithBear Absolutely could not have said this better myself. This is why I don't see any point complaining about algorithm. It caters to humans, it's human behaviors. I do the exact same as well that feeds to its behavior. Algorithm just tries to guess what you like and give you that content, it's a very understandable business move. The only real issues I have with IG is people randomly getting locked out of their own accounts, report abuse and lack of meaningful customer support to get yourself rightfully unbanned. As for growing audience, if you want to do what you want to do and not cater to any existing/known rules to grow, then you have to simply accept you won't grow that fast. And that's ok.
moyobear Thank you for talking about this topic. I like how you explain different perspectives to look at the algorithm behavior. I am one of the many trying to figure out how to get an audience; this video helped me now think of better ways to approach IG.
@korokm_art ! And thank you so much for this video!!! Posting on Instagram can honestly be draining because of the algorithm:( trying to care less about visibility and followers by reminding myself that they don’t define your worth as an artist!
peterh_art Love that expression and how you are pushing those changes. Great truth bomb dropping throughout this one, actually very motivating and makes me feel great about life and art. Also come on, you know you can go on location to do your hot-tub stream. And use a cheap iPad for just that one video, risk it. And if you drop it you will have a hell of a clip of you dropping an iPad in a hot tub on stream. That's got to be worth something.
outlawzipi I've had my IG for a while. I made it just to share what I'm doing and at one point I did want to get into it more and attract a following, and oh boy it's hard. After a bit of revaluation of my ambitions, however, I kinda gave up on that. My goal is way beyond Instagram and while it can be an amazing tool to help I don't think the mindset of '' drawing to grow my socials '' is very helpful for me right now, it takes a toll. So for now I'm just focusing on growing my skill, whatever comes of that is enough.
Sleepy1012 I post and draw daily, but i am actually inconsistent with the media i draw in.. i think i should work on being more consistent. You are one of the coolest youtubers out there btw!!!!
Laytdraws Just to advise you something about on how you post on instagram and about your art itself. As a very young artist myself, i tend to dream to be a successful artist one day that had a thousands of likes but patience is a virtue, so I just mainly draw for self improvement (just with a side of percentage for likes or followers). I get lower percentages as I post (less likes & losing followers) & that’s very stressful for me because I rarely post before (1 post a month). I like to say that you must be strong & go through the storm so you could see the rainbow one day. (You must be strong when it comes to having problems) 1.) I do acknowledge that some popular artists tend to have their own schedules when it comes to posting in ig so, you can experiment on that. 2.) do what you have interest to. 3.) if you’re experimenting, you can experiment artstyles , colour patterns, art mediums, etc. (Don’t worry, if you reach the style you want, you can stay on the style you tend to satisfy you.) 4.) Don’t compare yourself on the higher/ more popular artist but challenge on yourself. (Challange yourself for the better path on your own). 5.) don’t stress yourself: Don’t worry on consistent post & it’s okay to have a break & explore things that can inspire you to be motivated. Try to be relax when you’re seeing the likes or numbers and focus more about the content. 6.) the time will come: I do see the other popular artists that after their 1,2,3,4,5,6 years of their art posting , they’re getting more attentions. I would probably say that is luck or hard-work or maybe both. I would say that, if you know that your choice is whether good or bad , try to acknowledge & do what is best for you & stay your passion until the end & you will get what you’ve worked for.
djs.artbook You are right about that, I saw it myself. I had an IG account before, where I just did pencil art of Dragonball characters and saw my account growing super fast, in about 6 months I grew from 32 followers to 1k and I had a post reach nearly 3k likes, but I started losing interest... I got bored drawing only Dragonball or anime and wanted to switch things up and post portraits and other stuff I enjoyed.. soon after I saw my follower count and the engagement drop. And then the insta algorithm dropped me as well and with that of course myself esteem and my passion just disappeared. Kinda sad but I'm approaching it differently now. Creating art i enjoy and not worrying to much about followings and engagement just me sharing what I create for me.
engsalart Thank you for the insightful video josh. So, I guess the key is to leverage on what you are good at then show it to your audience while being consistent with it..
The critique livestream happened! You don't need to comment your handles anymore lol. Thanks to everyone that participated.
Here's a link to the video! ruclips.net/video/Pq_inrLGv14/видео.html
ahh im late! anyway physdis
Thank you Josh. You are saying the truth! Thanks.
I hate the fact that those pages that post art from other artists gets more visibility than the artists themselves, and they don't even do anything, some even put their @'s at the very end of a long description...then they even make money "promoting" less viewed artists
agreed.. I just finished a 15 hour artwork and posted it on many different places.. not many likes yet (hoping to get at least some reach with the post).. meanwhile accounts that just post other artist's work are getting followers galore.. Good thing I don't draw just for the following and likes or else I would have given up long ago.. Instagram does not feel like a space to make new artists grow a following.. it's a place to have people pay Imstagram promotions to maybe be allowed to grow a following.
@@skrimaging you nailed the whole point right there. And you're doing it the right way, never for the followers or likes but for self growth, it's the best way to do it because Instagram is really unfair for artists most of the time.
Yep. This is exactly why they are so effective. They can select the best of the best artwork, and post regularly. And if they embrace a theme, even better. Thats will almost always attract an audience faster than an individual.
@@ergojosh It really sucks, before I made I art IG page I was following lots of those pages because I never even realised they weren't the ones doing the artwork, then I started to look past the art into the descriptions and found out the artists @'s hidden way down the discriptions, then I just unfollow and follow the artists
i hate those "art curators" half the time they don't even credit the artist correctly or at all. i usually search for the actual person who made the work to like, save and follow.
consistent posting of the same style is hard when you're still trying to find your style and things you like to create. Also it can make art not fun anymore when you're always thinking about how your art will be received by others
I know!! Urghh
at the same time, not it's logic that people won't follow you as much. If People A like only a certain type of drawing, and people B another type but you draw both style, then they won't follow ur account because half of the time they won't like it. If you don't already have a style you should post not to gain followers but to try to maybe develop a style of your own (as a way to worok on it consistently). Then, when you will have an artstyle, the audience from a specific nice will come naturally.
Ive stopped posting on my art account for the past 3 or four weeks, and it’s crazy how much has changed. My understanding of anatomy has improved ten fold, i’ve been studying expressions, other artists styles and much more. Without the pressure of the toxic instagram algorithm dictating what i do, when i do it and how i do it, I have been doing so much better. Even with a following of less than 500 I felt the pressure of the algorithms, and its so crazy how much subconscious pressure you put on yourself as a result of the pressure already present.
This video was super informative, I can tell you so many people agree.
Thank you :)
I haven't posted for about a month and I lost my motivation, so I just decided to watch different things and get motivation from different places. I think one of the reasons I have lost my motivation is because of my low storage. I'm starting to get my motivation back but my storage isn't helping :')
@Tweed Penguin and you feeling the need to reply in a negative way seems like a personal problem to me :)
As a small content creator it’s frustrating to try to find the time to create something because of a very busy lifestyle and when I do have the time to create something and post it and it doesn’t get noticed sucks But those god damn picture frames of motivational quotes telling you to hustle and keep practicing is playing devils advocate! So the way I see it, do what u can when u can just as long as “you” enjoy what your doing in that moment!
Jazza does different things now, but beforehand he used to focus on animation tutorials. Before that he spent time developing relationships with Flash game creators and other artists on Newgrounds. Even now he is still sticking to the same niche, which is variety. He just sells it well because he spent so much time building his audience. Personally, I think he is brilliant at marketing himself.
I'm not sure having more likes and followers on social media directly relates to more sales for independent artists either, since each social media platform has different click-through rates. I feel like building a dedicated group of supporters might be more lucrative than a large audience of followers.
naamoreng
What you're saying is true and I definetly understand why algorithms work this way. At the same time I'm getting ostracized by algorithms on all social media platforms. Even if I draw every day there are only very few drawings I feel are good enough to finish and post online so I usually end up posting only one or at best two drawings a month. I have somewhat come to accept it. In 2019 I really drew a lot of stuff that was more targeted towards my few followers but in the end it made me hate art so I already know I can only keep going mentally if I draw the things I want to draw for myself. I didn't want to look at my old drawing anymore and scrapped most of them... haven't made followers since then.
But hey I'm still kind of a beginner so maybe things will get better when I have the skills to show off.
In all honestly, this has to be the best advice for artists I have ever heard. As nice as it is, sometimes the Art community just tends to look at everything with rose-tinted glasses. Sometimes you just have to make hard decisions and commit to a narrow path to achieve success.
I do both art and photography but I rarely post on instagram. I totally understand the consistency thing, it’s why I separate the art, photography and writing with different names. I would also separate like types of things.
people that give their time are doing it bc you give some kind of value to them. yea that makes sense this video was really clear cut / concise and insightful.
Thinking about it, it is often better to do the same thing consistently to effectively avoid choice paralysis and an art block. But it could be a trap if one isn't careful either. So to choose the best of both worlds, I could post something consistent for the week and then something unique at the weekend.
Like consistently drawing pretty girls for the whole week then mechas and badass bros at the weekend. Man your insight is what I needed this part of my journey. Thanks!
As an artist who posts comics for only one fandom every single day, I can confirm that all of this is true.
A few years ago I basically just posted whatever I wanted, most of the time fanart for various Japanese pop culture. Then I created a random fanpage for Miraculous Ladybug where I only posted poorly drawn sketches and comics and yet, it blew up and got over 100k subs.
Some rules I'd follow if you really want to get into the Instagram game. (If you just like posting whatever you want then please don't follow these rules)
1. Mainly post fanart for one single fandom OR fanart for fandoms that are part of the same "group" (Example: Amphibia + The owl house or Steven Universe + OK KO)
2. Add comic bubbles. Even if it's just a single one, This will double the engagement.
3. Post something that people will comment on. Ask a short question in your caption or share an unpopular opinion for example.
4. Post every day. It might seem hard at first but you'll get used to it. As I said eralier, the quality of the art is not that important. You can also "reuse" your own assets in your art to make your work flow faster.
5. Let people repost your work. Just make sure to have a distiguishable style and a watermark.
Note:
I don't make any money with it. I'm just a random high school student who draws for fun but maybe this was helpful to someone.
Nothing related to this video but I'd like to address an issue of something that made me give another reason why I hate about Instagram more than ever:
It just every time I post some art on my page I always get a few comments from a few different accounts thats says the same thing like : "nice art,dm it (@insert_random_art_account or whatever that is) I thought its so weird and suspicious at the same time, turned out these accounts are just some feature pages for artist that want money to feature they even give you the list of their prices and they were high ,for example the highest prices they have is post+story+highlight+star of the week+mention in bio is 45$,
these pages has 2 millions followers but it was a fake number because they only had 4 comments on each drawing featured. So they're totally faking to take money from artists sooooooo in other words these accounts are nothing but bots and all of them are SCAM!! this is what makes me hate instagram more for not taking care of these issues smh
the algorithm has it is now boosts those kind of accounts, that's why we shouldn't just be okay with the algorithm, that's not how the world works.
They are spam bots and I am nearly convinced that it is a scam. 🤖I have spoken to a few people that fell for them and it is not worth your money at all! The accounts have fake engagement and their followers are mostly unreal as well.👻 They all look oddly similar and use the same method. Some even have stolen artworks, so just block them on sight! 🚫IG has started to shut them down but you can also protect your account from them by filtering the spam comments out. 🛡️Go to your settings, to privacy, to comments and turn the manual filter on. Type in words like DM, feature, Collab, promote, ambassador, s4s, follow, promo, promotion. That should help to keep them away.🤺🤺🤺 If you see them in other people’s comments, report them for spam so that we can get rid of them faster! Don’t fall for them and keep yourself and your friends save from this bot invasion!🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖
mister_hipster_designs
I've been a graphic designer for years, and finally started drawing more and more in my free time a few years ago. Found an art style I really resonate with and stuck to it. IG may not seem to give me many likes on many of the things I post, but the people that do see it really appreciate it, I sell work in person and I get lots of positive feedback, including from other artists. I post every day but don't kill myself doing it.
I found that if I spend less time on IG and more on art, I actually improve at something that I care about instead of worrying about whatever the algorithm likes that day.
Thanks for being a voice of reason, Josh. Maybe I'll see you at an art show around ATL sometime.
pineappiefriend ;
this video was so helpful actually. youre totally right about how people invest in time in something they want to see regularly and arent ready to just have to see whatever different style ur trying that day. im guilty of feeling bad about having art thats totally inconsistent but i also cant stand not exploring different ways of drawing and painting and all... i feel like its limiting to be consistent all the time unless you`ve really reached that pro level
we shouldn't just be okay with the algorithm, that's not how the world works. we cant accept anything they throw at us. if we had that attitude towards everything we would be miserable. Instagram needs us artists and creators in general. Without us they wouldn't exist.
As an artist, I get what you're trying to say, but let's be realistic here. Visual artists do very little for instagram (Monetarily) compared to all the other type of content creators they have on there.
My solution was to completely give up posting to save my own sanity...
I love samdoesarts for his technical skill...but literally 99.999% of his work is attractive women.
Is that a problem somehow?
After watching this video I get why he's doing that, if he didn't and drew what he wanted he wouldn't have the likes which is sad. He's very talented but most people are only following his page for the attractive art. But his talent is being shown so that’s the best thing. At least on RUclips he has fans who are artists and he gets to communicate with them.
@@damianogiolitti3416 it's not a problem per se, it just illustrates the point in this view. Is he capable of different kinds of people? Probably. But it does not reflect in his art.
@@koifishflavor The comparaison with landscapes is kinda wrong in this context.
You can be a landscape artist and still have more variety to your art that someone who only paint pretty women.
A better comparaison could be landscape artists that only represent one type of environnement,like mountains with fantasy elements or cyberpunk-ish city in nighttime.
Probably because it's what likes to draw
Good points, this is always something that’s bothered me about IG which is why I try not to pressure myself into posting for the sake of posting. The truth is that I am 33, and I’ve been drawing seriously since I was a teenager, but I have always liked so many different facets of art. If I were to categorize what I find the most compelling subject/genre, I would say dark surrealism/horror. However, I also really love to draw portraits, observational nature drawing etc… If I like the end result I will post it.
I have thought of making another account to post my daily sketches and doodles, almost as an experiment, but also as a way to develop the muscles to churn out an image I actually like on a daily basis (eventually).
Also, I’ve found Reddit to be useful when I feel washed out and uninspired. The r/drawme is a great place to practice, but aside from that, it’s nice having another place to post your work, and I’ve actually gotten some work through it.
At the end of the day, I think that the point you made about connecting with other artists (in a genuine/honest way) is really important-especially people around your skill level, or a little above or below. It’s great to feel like you’re not alone on this journey. Great video 100%!
As a photographer and artist here, they both take a lot of time depending on what you shoot 😅 I shoot fashion/beauty and sometimes editing an image can take hours so it's not always at the press of a button, not as long as a lot of artwork for sure but still, it is very time-consuming a lot of the time!
Yeah, it’s not just "produce content at the press of a button", I’m passionate in digital drawing and photography and there are times where I can make a couple decent drawing and in the meantime I can’t seem to shoot anything worth posting
Awesome video! It's really nice to hear from somebody who gets the business side of things "You don't get paid as much as the boss, because the boss has a job that is more critical to the success of the platform." So many people don't get this! I see people thinking they should only have to do the bare minimum to get anywhere, so I really appreciated that point!
This was a helpful video big bro!💪🏾 the mindset you described for artists to have when dealing with instagram is actually the mindset that comes naturally to me at my regular day job, ill give what you said a try and we’ll see how it goes.
As a new artist posting on Instagram for the first time, thank you.
This really clarified many things and helped me tremendously. 🙌
j.art_w
I think this is why I really didn’t bother to post a lot these days. I remember posting at least 3 times a week and basically it’s just sketches, finishes and WIP but each likes gets fewer and fewer. It’s definitely demoralizing to know whether I have improved or not.
It’s been almost a year since I post and I felt slightly better not being a slave to the algorithm. That way I could draw without this mental pressure and see how far I can go without some AI affecting what is considered success. I felt like posting from time to time but perhaps waiting until I see my own improvements is a lot better than stressing myself.
I think this is an interesting topic in the Digital age. As everyone, including some companies, are indeed sourcing artists from digital platform like instagram, CGSociety, Artstation, artists can be tricked into believing that the like count and views that carry over from Deviant Art, Twitch, RUclips, Instagram, Twitter, Tumblr, Patreon, and Artstation equates to jobs.
And that's a whole other issue because while the view count "doesn't matter" you can't be an artist with no online portfolio and just contact a company for work. They specifically ask for online portfolios.
So then that just branches off into social media and the feedback loop of "Im getting likes but no work" and "They work at a studio and have zero online presence".
Something no one has noticed is how the topic went from "What brushes do you use" to now "What is your equipment set up".
Ive noticed that people who, somehow, go out and spend $10s of thousands of dollars on expensive cameras, Cintiqs etc become the "authority" on how to make it as an artist. EVEN THOUGH you can SEE they have no studio work to speak of and their art has only grown since people started paying attention because they bought all the equipment FIRST and then learned to draw.
This is another trick to young artists.
I think people should do one simple thing: Dont buy into people saying "draw what you love", "Stay on your grind", "Draw what makes you happy", "Curate content", etc etc. This is ONLY if you are looking for studio work. (If you're self-publishing, personal booths at cons, self-publishing on webtoons, and stuff like that? By ALL means do what you like like Jake Parker, Jason Brubaker, Tenapel, Mcranie, etc)
These are companies, looking for workers, to sign NDAs (So they dont give a shit about your online presence) to do the grunt work within a deadline to finish a project. They all have bosses and they need to get things done and fast.
Method that ive seen, and used, in the past?
Create a formal email not necessarily applying for a job. But INQUIRING about upcoming projects that they could use assistance on, time you can dedicate, your portfolio examples : (Strong suits can be dominate, but dont be afraid to throw in some oddballs-70% character design
(IF this is your strong-suit), 15%weapons, 10%color studies, 5%props, or something like that)
7 times out of 10 they will review and log you application. If something goes belly up or they change direction, instead of sourcing new profiles they will go with what they have logged.
It's a tricky game out there finding work. NO easy way to do it and just because some one is on youtube, don't assume they have studio work to their credit. Don't even assume they totally understand how to monetize social media.
Riiinsy
Me, a photographer: Agrees with everything said.
Josh: ...like photographers. They can really just make content at a press of a button.
Me again: Excuuuuseeee meeeeee, ha, I WISH!!!!
(I get what you mean, though; however that was a really poor choice of words)
fr. this is simply not true, and it's bringing them down.
Yeah that didn't sit right with me either, I'm an artist and a photographer, and my photography is definitely more time consuming than my art.
@@corbern8144 Same! I mean, I get what he means, but being a clueless teen with a selfie who become an ''influencer'' and self claimed ''content creator'' and gets a stupid amount of sponsors, reach, and contracts just by ''dancing'' on TIktok and Instagram is DIFINETLY NOT THE SAME as being a photographer, that comment was straight up off base.
jackysurelyyouwouldntdraw
This video was comforting in a way because I always had that image of more likes = better artwork and I would get super down on myself because my posts weren't performing well.
At the same time its so hard to grow organically on IG and when I tried to post more consistently my quality went down and I would be get burned out quickly which is counter intuitive when you think about it. It's a constant struggle to remind myself that just because I barely get any likes on a post that it's not always my fault. All I can control is the quality of my art and so I should make it to the best of my ability. I appreciate the video!
This was so inspiring to watch. I've been struggling with my art life for the last few years because I never know what direction to go. Hopefully stuff gets better with this kind of work ethic though. Thank you 🙏
selkieselenite
I feel it is especially difficult as a traditional artist. Even when I follow trending topics (like Mermay or dtiys) it's not getting the same amount of attention as digital art. But anyway, I would never give up my watercolours as it is pure bliss to paint with them. :)
Ottergoat
I always really enjoy your videos on how real and laid back they are as well as your amazing soothing voice! And in this video I really needed to hear this, instagram seems to indeed favor the consistent posts more than anything else and the fact that theres always a real human being with needs, desires behind it makes you really think that we as artist sometimes feel like these empty headed machines that just gotta keep on drawing on end! Thank you for these amazing high quality videos! And your art is AMAZING! ^^
Josh you have a great skill for communication. This was all well explained, and rational. This content is top notch and professional.
Time for a therapy, ergojosh's voice therapy.
totally agree with that
Since IG added the option to hide likes, I somehow started ignoring numbers overall, ignoring most trends and such. I magically got so much better at art, which also got me commission work. Sometimes this feeling of not being good enough to be recognized creeps back into my head, but I'm glad I found my way to be creative again.
I think artists (I’m one) should begin entering competitions for magazines and studios and so on. Followings and likes on Instagram can kill ones confidence and can also make an artist lose focus on what really matters. I recently won a competition to be featured in an “epoch magazine in Scotland” and most of my art posts don’t even reach 100 likes anymore.
I'm going to start doing this... I'm so fed up with social media but I need to network...
@@thaym.5822 yes, you should start! Social media is a good form of exposure but it’s not the only way.
This video was really insightful, especially since I have not thoroughly decided on my motivations. I get stuck between wanting to build a following, but also improving my skills to eventually work in the industry. I still want to post on Instagram, but I am now going to start improving my skills more.
I like this video! Though a thing I disagree with is the start... The part about photographers being able to create content at the press of a button. This is technically true but I feel like it downplays their work. Photographers have to get the right composition, the lighting, the focus, etc. And after doing that, they then have to edit it to make it perfect. I just don't want to act like their work is easy and doesn't take much effort while us artists have to "slave away for hours and hours". And that's because, to me, they're also artists. Even if they aren't taking a pen to a piece of paper or screen.
Jwynnart
Thank you so much for making this! I really needed this as I've been feeling down and anxious because of the strict schedule I made for myself to the point that not posting for a week makes me so scared. It felt like I'm invisible to the community, and that no one can really see my art.
Your video really changed my perspective! I'll start drawing at my own pace and just enjoy the process😊
It seems Instagram is saturated for Artists or even in any area. Once your work gets traction you get your art noticed by people, but to even get that traction is VERY HARD. So that doesn't always mean constancy or the same posts give you support, sometimes it's luck, or they like fanart or something. Now I just post the art I like and don't care anymore, at least if one person sees my work and likes it I'm okay with that. It's better to have people really like your work and what it stands for rather than just getting a like from random people who aren't fans. I want to go into being a concept artist or character designer so I used IG to get my art out there because I don't have any other way to get people to notice my work.
I feel like I'm in the same boat as u. What's your IG?
I don't even post that much anymore because I'm constantly working towards my dream and just having fun with my art
To get opportunities in the industry, I recommend using more professional sites like Artstation or LinkedIn, and being quite active there. Constantly looking out for jobs, networking etc. It's possible to get jobs through regular social media, but definitely takes a lot more time with all the visual noise.
@@milktea_gang I totally 100% agree with you.
@@milktea_gang Thanks for the advice. I've been currently doing that with Linkedln, I've yet to get anything yet but I will keep trying.
@@christopher8869 I feel the same way I'm noticing many artists do too in the comments section. Instagram isn't the way to go for every artist.
Jasperedain ;)
Also I feel like this has summed up why I’ve been so frustrated trying to create a community on IG, I think I get too distracted by the new “shiny” style I see and completely yeet the old one, but also never give my self enough time to even get good at it. I’ve recently just committed to purely learning and that has relieve a ton of my stress.
"Photographers make content by just pressing a button". Mate.. Only if you knew how much time it takes... And btw photography is also ART.
Worked in both fields for a long time, can confirm taking photos is a way easier workday and requires way less skill.
We're just saying, in comparison to other forms of art like illustration, film, and even sport, photography has a low skill ceiling and low potential.
Taking a picture of a beautiful landscape may require some hiking and effort, but if someone else can do it to a relatively similar degree, then it's not worth as much praise.
does it really take 6+ hours like art?
Worked in both and for photography you must research which takes lots of time, have to know your gear well, you need to train your creativity, set up the whole scene etc. Then depending on your field for example if you work in fashion - have to set up the gear, all the lights, background etc, tell the model how to pose, upload images on computer, edit them. Sometimes if you work for big agencies someone will do the editing istead of you, but you still have so much work that you easily fill in 40+ hours per week.
Same as you learn how to draw perspective, hands and etc. you must learn how to set up lighting, how the depth of field works, the exposure triangle too.
If you are visual artist using photography it literally takes the same amount as painting/drawing artist. You still have to upload online, think of new ideas, experiment to find new ways of taking photographs, create big concepts (as making a book), networking, writing artist statement. It's more than just pretty pictures of landscapes and dogs. The fact this content is famous on Instagram, it doesn't mean that's the whole photography industry. As Josh said, people doing good work don't upload as much, not because they don't want to, but they have a good job and not enough time.
People, we are not in 18th century, Photography is Art.
It probably must be hard to see someone more famous with more money than you, but assuming things is just plainly ignorant.
photobookstore.co.uk/
www.icp.org
shop.mocp.org/collections/fine-prints
@@londonworkman7617 I'm not talking about simple pics of your nearby park or beautiful place. Art Photography is way more than this and takes the same amount of time as the other arts.
charlottenoelleart
For me it's really difficult to post similar stuff on Social Media. It is just that I can't "decide" on a certain art style because everytime I draw something my style changes... But thank you so much for your videos! I always love listening to them.
This is all really good information and helpful for growing a following.
BUT the problem with following this wisdom can lead to hours, even entire days, of just figuring out how to make our marketing better. That will alter the art that we create and share. If we're creating stuff JUST to make our followers happy, at the expense of our own creative freedom, that's putting ourselves in a cage, working for an algorithm - and not for what we really want to see in the world. Just my thoughts and my experience
Eyyyy, so many things to talk about in this video! I like the reference to Feng Zhu's explanation that prof artists are skilled and simply post art they like doing on their accounts. It's by no means what got them to their current skill levels and jobs. Technical art isn't always flashy.... Most of the time, it isn't!
Ugh, social media is just like this...
Your are spot on. I'm a full time graphic designer working in a tabletop gaming company and I don't have time to plan my Instagram. I just post whatever it is I'm working on and my hobby projects. This is why I don't have any sizeable audience.
I've been thinking about this for a while. And most of the problem I see is all these cliques and crews that bundle up together and only worry about each other. And Josh is a part of that. They only like each other stuff they share each other stuff. They only follow eachother and whoever Ethan Becker says to follow. You follow. Loish, Ethan, Ramon90 and the list goes on.
@@koifishflavor Thanks for the comment. Im so glad we met. Your opinion is highly valued and I think you just changed my life.
Sounds like someone is jealous :)
@@ado9249 Im very jealous. Now what do we do from here?
Yes bro, because even you do it, thats good, is teamwork, friends support each other. I like all the photos of my friends because that is what means friendship.
@@LasAventurasdeCanelox that's so sweet. Look at you. Be my bestie. Please
Avramtagai
You're on point on why the instagram algorithm act like it does and it's really sucks comparing to the old version i built my following in, ever since the changes to the algorithm have started i lost my motivation to post and slowly started losing followers, i hone from 12k to 8000 in a matter of few months and it's very discourage me to a point i started having doubt about my own skills for some time until i just stopped giving a f**k lol.
Yup, everyone is drawing them pinterest girls which can give you a good chance to stand out of the rest of the sheeps. You'll be noticed if you stop obsessing over the algorithm and focus on the quality and authenticity of your art.
Haha, if only it was that easy.
Quality art, no matter how good it looks, doesn’t equal popularity. Social media is about marketing, not talent.
ifgalaxyart
Thank you for this video, it was really interesting to hear….I started to post artworks consistently weekly 4/5 weeks ago (because now I am older and would like to it seriously…) and I hope me dreams can one day go true
This is a very bad analogy Josh, the boss without the employees is nothing and earns nothing. the employees are what drives clients and payment not the other way around, the bosses work often is nothing since they can employee someone to do their job. For example, Elon Musk. He doesn't do anything, the engineers working on his company do the work, but its the boss that gets most of the revenue of the company. The boss and employee analogy doesn't work and its very flawed.
U know what he meant
He doesn’t do anything? That’s super naive, Elon musk doesn’t just sit on his ass all day. Sure maybe he doesn’t do any physical labor but he plans massive projects, makes huge risky decisions, ect. . His work is even harder than the employees which is why he’s the one doing it.
@@DING1o1 tai here is underestimating someone's work just like josh mentioned in his video. If elon musk did nothing how did he become the elon musk he is now.
@@DING1o1 those projects, ideas, and risky maneuvers are completely meaningless without the employees. ideas don’t run a business, the labor does.
@@aaaccc7173 you can replacelabors with money anytime tho. The boss does the decisions whi h make the money. There will always be someone to find to work for you
Been watching your videos for a few months now. You have a very relaxing, soothing voice. Thanks for the great content!
I agree with everything except for the jab at photographers... doing their work requires travel, time of day and post work. Illustrators just gotta sit there and draw and that can be done anytime.
exactly... as someone who is not a photographer, it is still pretty obvious that in order to upload good content a lot of work is needed. His perception of photography is the same perception a lot of people have about digital art.
Kind of funny that you think that illustrators don't have to travel.
@@lunayen How does an illustrator "have" to travel in order to illustrate?
@@jdonnelly1977 Also funny that you think illustrators can make art “anytime” as if we don’t have busy schedules or lives too. Dude, it’s not that easy…art takes time and dedication.
thivussoi
I really appreciate your explanation of the algorithm. Sometimes I feel like the algorithm is actively trying to hide me because I'm still experimenting with my art, and it gives me a lot of anxiety when I'm about to post something that I've worked really hard on. But sometimes I need to remind myself that I draw for fun, not fame. I'm not yet willing to sacrifice growth to increase my following. Maybe one day, but not now.
lord_canelox
Actually, i dont think about likes anymore, i realized that when in my house there wasn't internet (before 2014) i was drawing everyday just for fun and enjoyment, and the only ones that knew my drawings were my friends. Today, I draw for fun like always but i post it on instagram for my friends that are far away.
huzaahhh
I feel like I'm still in the exploration stage and I don't think I'm ever going to leave soon, cuz it's so much fun rather than doing the same thing over and over again...even tho I do have the intention to grow the account I just couldn't afford to be consistent everyday.
What I realized is : at least I should draw with a purpose. And I am doing it for the fun of it. So in the end, we shouldn't validate ourselves with the number of likes, but just be proud of your work and practice posting it online. --the growth of followings will come along if it's really meant to be.
JamesC.Draws
I've been struggling with thoughts on my future as an artist in this industry and what path I want to take. Your words are beyond helpful Josh, Mega appreciate the Insight. 🙏
BGIllustrations
I really appreciate this video because it just reminds me why social media exist and why the algorithm works the way it works. I don’t really have a desire to work in the industry. I want to work for myself and create what I want, but I know in order to do that, I need to be consistent with my work and be strategic. Pretty much a one man marketing department. This is sad to say but you gotta work the system if you want to survive.
Josh I really appreciate you
That’s the comment lol uh yeah
at 8:14 i was pleased that someone actually told me thanks for reason that i dont use adblock. i turned off adblock so long ago to support my colleague. to be honset adds are brain pain but supporting feels way more better. thanks for great video
I posted so many girls and now I post a dude instagram like nah gimme me cute girls 😤.
I posted so many superheroes. Draw some pretty girls Instagram like, "nah we want yo cool superheroes."
This video is just EVERYTHING that I have ever needed. Thank you!!!
The algorithm is like The Godfather.
If you do work...you're rewarded.
If you do want to do the work then...you have to pay up to be seen.
And if you tell the algorithm *beep* you then...that's your *beep*. You'll be hidden under the bay of artists with cement shoes.
Lmao i just watched the godfather with my family haha
That analogy does not apply to the artist on IG at all. We aren't employed by IG but are part of the IG consumer base.
When people complain about the app it is complaining about their poor service to us as consumers which is a valid complaint if the app does not enforce policies that protect people's IPs and allow others to benefit from our collective works.
The algorithm isn't an issue so I agree with you on this. The issue is people taking our images to benefit from the algorithm and IG not enforcing copyright laws the same way RUclips does.
They are generating ad revenue and in turn stealing from us if they are allowing their "employees" to benefit from our work.
thedominicglover
Quality Work, Cyclical Consistency, Daily Uploads.. The algorithm has a major crush on you.
vfxrishi :)
You speak the truth about how much work it is to build an audience. And since I'm still a beginner (not young tho lol, I'm 26) artist, I'm still trying to figure out how far I want to take my art - still in that exploratory phase, tho I'm starting to figure it out. I'm just too lazy to post every day,,, or even every month 😅 😅 😬
"Stop complaining and start playing the game like all these generic accounts do"
Bye, Josh
"Don't like it? Well, just roll with it idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
Super great content, wow.
@@thauart yeah pretty much. Roll with the punches
This really helps cause I tend to get frustrated cause I don't know if people are gonna like my art or cause I don't have time to draw as much to post a drawing every day, thanks ergo 😊
You should roast sponsored Instagram art
linkalipski
I like your analogies and what you say is what I have been thinking too. Thank you for your content 🤍
I would add that for some of us, the difficulty is not just a question of consistency in terms of regularity, but also in terms of content. Not every artist likes working with one genre or medium. Multidisciplinary artists are misunderstood and seen as "all over the place". Creating separate accounts for each subgenre or medium would mean posting very little on multiple accounts so that is not feasible.
Another difficulty is that people with disabilities (physical and/or mental) are the first ones to fall through the trap. Creating quality art regularly and consistently is not always possible for people living with chronic illnesses or battling acute depression for instance. There is definitely a case of algorithm privileging able-bodied people.
I personally no longer post much even though I want to. Truthfully I want to post like in the early days: not take hours preparing a photo, just a quick snap of anything art-related and forget about the magazine-like curation. I've tried a bit but it just messes up the feed and I still spend so long editing photos. I am no longer having fun... and I miss that so much. Instagram is no longer a place that inspires and encourages me to create, but a place where I feel instant shame as an artist 😔.
Except that you miss the point entirely imo: with the old "chronological order", people were still staying on the app AND curating what they wanted to "invest" in. But Insta changed to favour paid content and big accounts while making it even harder for smaller ones to get any traffic their way... without paying, which was the point of it (and the same process Fb went through). So even if you want any "value" out of your account, it's only about capitalistic issues/turns Insta took, and not an "organic" one (a.k.a. how "humans work") and it's still an awful and shitty change ^^".
I try to create a "business" I guess, but can't post that often and I get squashed because I came after the change. I started slowly growing before it happened, and that stopped instantly despite me posting the "same things" :/ (and I'm small and "junior" etc, I know that, but it's still fucked up for so many reasons ^^). I guess I'm saying that I disagree big time with your conclusions and advice to "roll with it and the algo is just ok and not to blame", because there is a lot to blame and that should very much change. Even more when you think about the ethics of pushing people to always produce more, faster, etc that goes with that "industries" and capitalistic approach :/. I'll try to invest more on building an audience though, but that's not "the way things work" and we can disagree with capitalism and the fucked up ways insta work/handle all of this :) (even if we don't have the choice for now, but if we protest enough you know... ^^). "Work is work and it's like that" doesn't hold up either and it doesn't have to "be like that". The systems are precisely fucked up in so many ways around these big issues, work could even be redefined phylosophically speaking.
Anyway, sorry for the novel, it's just that the whole video was pretty heavily oriented in the classic capitalistic and productivist ways of conceiving things, wielding big "truth" like "it's like that, always has been, it can't change" while... it's a fabricated system... it doesn't have to be like that and can change, let's ask for it ! ^^
Edit: the old algo was way more "democratic" and had more "equity" built-in. The new one promotes capitalism, elitism and classism, like... well most of every systems in existence that tends to get worse and crush everything ^^".
completly agree
I'm a artist myself and I have been struggling with it for awhile, I try to post everyday but still I only get about 16 to 20 likes. I takes about a couple hours to draw my artwork. I don't mind my account doing bad because I only do art for fun and like to post it so people can see it. another problem I have seen is that people either post art without crediting the original artist or when they repost the art the repost gets more likes than the original art. Another thing is that most followers I have are not even active or they follow me but never get my post. Also great video, I am not old enough to make money but I saw this video and decided to watch it.
I prefer artstation than Instagram. Because it is somuch art related, in instagram some cringy people suddenly come up doing unintelligible things which is not for artists, it just breaks my mind
Same here, I definitely feel a lot more inspired looking at Artstation, while Instagram sucks it all out.
@@milktea_gang after the tiktok ban in my country instagram has completely became the alternative, so I just look at Artstation Pinterest or Pixiv
@@hyolinn5829 yeah really that annoys me too much, btw I live in India, and tiktok is ban, but there is a cringe competition going around here 😂
i find repetitiveness to be my thing, and i embrace it, as someone who wants to be a content creator this reassures me
renjm_art
poppylineart
Posting everyday is quite difficult and almost impossible for people with a job or studies, that's frustrating to spend hours in a drawing which won't be seen because of this algorithm. But I understand that people want to follow artists who are able to post a lot of pictures in their unique style
kreate_instadaley
Man you got a fan not just because of your art but because of the way you talk with wisdom.
That why I sometimes hate my creativity. I can't stick to a specific style to build a business with my art. So I think I stay in shadow for my entire life, or maybe create an art course to share my huge knowledges before I die.
But Instagram and social media is enough... I made a cross on it, it's definitely not for me.
turquoiselines
Even as someone who isn't trying to make a living off of their art, this was a very interesting video that gave me a new perspective on how I think of my followers; thankfully, I think I can say I've been on a good path to consistency recently, but I probably wouldn't of reached that point if I hadn't had the freedom to not worry about building an audience and being able to just experiment and try new things. The more I played around, though, the more I found the things that I wanted to consistently present to people and it's resulted in a noticeable increase in my engagement, which makes me happy.
Oh, if it isn't the famous "Hands" who is a constant guest on Josh's channel.
Keep being awesome and talented Josh!
just wanna drop a thank you because now i know what i should do. i need to focus on my studies, then i’ll consider growing an audience. thank you!
Josh you are the best in advising..🙌🏿🙌🏿
kiraizuma
I struggle a lot with visibility in social media to the point where I dont care about followers and likes anymore. I started art because I truly love it and wanted to make a living out of this on instagram and other platforms, but since a lot of artists are doing a lot of things, feels impossible to innovate. And theres no way I'll post everyday. Quality over quantity. Always.
JommaMay
Gotta say, I've been following for a short while and you such good advice, appreciate all the tips and suggestions you give us!
gleamiarts
i've kind of given up on my instagram tbh i prefer tiktok and tumblr a lot more. every now and then i schedule a post to go on there. i used to be worried about making my page consistent but it was impacting on my art negatively and i became frustrated with how i was pigeonholing myself. nowadays i don't care and post what i want
art.of.daisaka
Nice video, m8. Really helps put things into a fair perspective. I know quite a few peeps who seem very obsessed with having others liking/sharing/saving their work but they haven't really put enough effort into making quality content. or consistent content. Then the complaints roll on in about algo.
TheOneWithBear
Absolutely could not have said this better myself. This is why I don't see any point complaining about algorithm. It caters to humans, it's human behaviors. I do the exact same as well that feeds to its behavior. Algorithm just tries to guess what you like and give you that content, it's a very understandable business move.
The only real issues I have with IG is people randomly getting locked out of their own accounts, report abuse and lack of meaningful customer support to get yourself rightfully unbanned.
As for growing audience, if you want to do what you want to do and not cater to any existing/known rules to grow, then you have to simply accept you won't grow that fast. And that's ok.
moyobear
Thank you for talking about this topic. I like how you explain different perspectives to look at the algorithm behavior. I am one of the many trying to figure out how to get an audience; this video helped me now think of better ways to approach IG.
On target and exceeds expectations.
Thank you so much for your videos like this.
@korokm_art !
And thank you so much for this video!!! Posting on Instagram can honestly be draining because of the algorithm:( trying to care less about visibility and followers by reminding myself that they don’t define your worth as an artist!
peterh_art
Love that expression and how you are pushing those changes. Great truth bomb dropping throughout this one, actually very motivating and makes me feel great about life and art.
Also come on, you know you can go on location to do your hot-tub stream. And use a cheap iPad for just that one video, risk it. And if you drop it you will have a hell of a clip of you dropping an iPad in a hot tub on stream. That's got to be worth something.
josephmalbuezo
I love how you take jazza as an example, consistently inconsistent.
arythesia
Great video! Consistency is definetly something I struggle with. I just switch between two styles because I get bored of one.
outlawzipi
I've had my IG for a while. I made it just to share what I'm doing and at one point I did want to get into it more and attract a following, and oh boy it's hard. After a bit of revaluation of my ambitions, however, I kinda gave up on that. My goal is way beyond Instagram and while it can be an amazing tool to help I don't think the mindset of '' drawing to grow my socials '' is very helpful for me right now, it takes a toll. So for now I'm just focusing on growing my skill, whatever comes of that is enough.
Sleepy1012
I post and draw daily, but i am actually inconsistent with the media i draw in.. i think i should work on being more consistent. You are one of the coolest youtubers out there btw!!!!
Laytdraws
Just to advise you something about on how you post on instagram and about your art itself.
As a very young artist myself, i tend to dream to be a successful artist one day that had a thousands of likes but patience is a virtue, so I just mainly draw for self improvement (just with a side of percentage for likes or followers). I get lower percentages as I post (less likes & losing followers) & that’s very stressful for me because I rarely post before (1 post a month).
I like to say that you must be strong & go through the storm so you could see the rainbow one day.
(You must be strong when it comes to having problems)
1.) I do acknowledge that some popular artists tend to have their own schedules when it comes to posting in ig so, you can experiment on that.
2.) do what you have interest to.
3.) if you’re experimenting, you can experiment artstyles , colour patterns, art mediums, etc.
(Don’t worry, if you reach the style you want, you can stay on the style you tend to satisfy you.)
4.) Don’t compare yourself on the higher/ more popular artist but challenge on yourself.
(Challange yourself for the better path on your own).
5.) don’t stress yourself:
Don’t worry on consistent post & it’s okay to have a break & explore things that can inspire you to be motivated. Try to be relax when you’re seeing the likes or numbers and focus more about the content.
6.) the time will come:
I do see the other popular artists that after their 1,2,3,4,5,6 years of their art posting , they’re getting more attentions. I would probably say that is luck or hard-work or maybe both. I would say that, if you know that your choice is whether good or bad , try to acknowledge & do what is best for you & stay your passion until the end & you will get what you’ve worked for.
afrotheartbabe
Thank for this video! I really really needed this!
djs.artbook
You are right about that, I saw it myself. I had an IG account before, where I just did pencil art of Dragonball characters and saw my account growing super fast, in about 6 months I grew from 32 followers to 1k and I had a post reach nearly 3k likes, but I started losing interest... I got bored drawing only Dragonball or anime and wanted to switch things up and post portraits and other stuff I enjoyed.. soon after I saw my follower count and the engagement drop. And then the insta algorithm dropped me as well and with that of course myself esteem and my passion just disappeared. Kinda sad but I'm approaching it differently now. Creating art i enjoy and not worrying to much about followings and engagement just me sharing what I create for me.
engsalart
Thank you for the insightful video josh. So, I guess the key is to leverage on what you are good at then show it to your audience while being consistent with it..