Graham Hancock: Consciousness and the Limits of the Materialist Paradigm
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- Опубликовано: 13 дек 2021
- Rupert’s 8-part Morphic Resonance video course is now available for £49, including a live Q&A session to take place in November, 2023
sheldrake.org/MRcourse
Recorded on November 5th, 2021
A dialogue from Beyond The Brain 2021 - Further Reaches of Consciousness Research, with host David Lorimer, organzied by the Department of Perceptual Studies at the University of Virginia, the Scientific and Medical Network, the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and the Alef Trust.
Graham Hancock is the NY Times best-selling author of a series of controversial books, notably Fingerprints of the Gods (1995), Heaven’s Mirror (1998), Underworld (2002), Magicians of the Gods (2015) and America Before (2019), investigating the possibility of a lost advanced civilization of the Ice Age. He is also known for his work on the role of altered states of consciousness in the origins of art and religion - an interest explored in his 2005 book Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Man.
grahamhancock.com/
Beyond the Brain is the world’s premier conference series exploring new research on whether and how consciousness and mind extend beyond the physical brain and body. This year’s event covers the limitations of scientific materialism, parapsychological research, implications of NDEs, savant syndrome, indigenous gateways to the soul and the nature of universal love. There will also be an experiential session on each day.
scientificandmedical.net
If Terence were still around and was part of this conversation, this would be the most epic trialogue ever! Thank you Graham and Rupert for this infinitely interesting discussion!
or you , me ,Us ,We , Them be into this chat may Graham & Rupert will be other realm !
Agreed, absolutely!
well after I saw him on video state that he thought children should also be 'initiated', I changed my view on him....ymmv
Agreed
🙏 yes!
Grateful for having the opportunity to watch these two gentle, warm and curious souls converse about life's mysteries. Utterly fantastic. Thank you both for existing and for all your work to open our minds to the true mystery we are spank in the middle of.
Same.
I wonder if Rupert will tell me were these meadows of pysociben mushrooms are 💫💫😁
If consciousness is not a physical process, then how are we physically typing these messages to describe our conscious experience in a physical feedback loop with what we are experiencing... It's literally moving our physical fingers to type & talk about itself 😂 ... Seems to me Graham isn't thinking this out.
@@ronsnow402 ... Hi, Ron-! Do you have any memorys of experiancing a blanked or blocked state of mind, or, what can also be refered to as,
"A cessation of internal dialogue"-?
@@pereraddison932 All the time haha. Especially as I'm sleeping, and waking up, tired, or was partying to much, or spent to many hours studying nonstop, getting burnt out from coding. I can definitely relate with some of my degrees of consciousness fade. I think that's what you mean.
I too had an electric shock when I worked at Sizewell B Nuclear Power Station. This changed my direction in life, while it give me mild epilepsy, I too had out of the body experience as well as a sense of time slowing down. Following this I decided to work with people who have conditions of the mind, such as autism. While continuing my interest in physics & philosophy.
How can you dealt with or manage your mind not to think when you feel bad?
It’s just so terrible to be sick and feel bad all the time.
@@Plasmamarino for me, I work on not believing everything I think.
@@k8sl I think it’s better like that.
3.6 Röntgen
@@k8sl for your Highest Good, with Hope :)
These men and this conversation is a true gift to everyone. I wish we had more minds like them in this age. My grandfather was a master bow maker, bonsai artist, naturalist and career biologist who spent extraordinary amounts of time in nature, alone. His parting wisdom from all his collective life experiences in nature etc is that consciousness is not generated by the brain nor limited to brains. That it is a field upon which all reality relies and cannot exist without and that we “receive” consciousness like a signal, and that what we ultimately are IS that signal. We ARE consciousness, or at least individuated units of consciousness using organic matter for individual development and growth, and for the growth and evolution of the cosmos and god. Years later as a grown man I find it very profound that he came to these conclusions on his own without ever studying it in a university, he has no you tube, no google, just his quiet heart and mind in remote vast quiet nature.
Very interesting
Nature is the greatest teacher. Understanding it's language is a life-long pursuit which your grandfather understood. It is a field with no textbooks to follow only our own senses and intuition. The Japanese culture knew this and incorporated natural principles plainly expressed in their artwork but also through all creative disciplines. Master bowyers are few and far between. My respects to your grandfather, I wish I could have met the man.
Thank you and respect to you for the nice comment. Nature is indeed the greatest teacher and those who understand this and listen to it in our current day and age of supreme weirdness and disconnectedness have a leg up by default. Have a good one!
" Japanese Culture ".....you mean the Culture that attacked / invaded
and murdered its way through S E
Asia in WW2. Machining gunning
Nurses / murdering hospital patients and beheading POW s.
That's not even counting what they did in China !! So spare us the drivel about peaceful contemplative Japanese Culture !!
The Universe is conscious and we are a part of this consciousness.
@D.J. W I'm no spud mate.
Yeah, I agree. I also think everyone feels it and that's what leads people into religions etc.
@D.J. W lol, I can see that! And couldn't agree more. Another couple if thousand years you think? Lol.
@D.J. W I think therefore I am. That's about where I would draw a line. How other consciousness' thinks though is another question.
@D.J. W Money is a man-made concept that merely represents material. How can it be the catalyst of all good? Presumably, there was good before money. I tend to think there was a lot more good before money.
Watching the birth of an alpaca one moment falling to the ground, then stand and know exactly what to do and within 24 hours has full playful and inquisitive personality. There is no question memory is stored somewhere.
As a person who was raised under a heavy veil and the paradigm of materialism and who walked life with a complete ignorance to consciousness, I have to say that it's absolutely unbelievable what we all are. I've awakened spontaneously, with some actions triggered by my ego. It's beyond any understanding and to cut to the chase - magic is part of the equation. I am speaking as a person who is a medical doctor working at one of the best hospitals in the world on brain cancer. If you think that the entire thing is about the rules of science, atoms and fields - you are wrong.
EDIT: If you want to name things, absorption into the one is a part of the spectrum. The one is at the bottom, like the sun from which you illuminate like a photon. Once you understand it upon death - there is nothing to worry. There is an absolute continuity of consciousness because this is the fundament of the mystery. The mystery cannot be completely understood, there is no egoic understanding of the absolute, there is only becoming it. And everybody are already it, and will briefly have a realization of it when we die. In this respect, you, and I and everybody else, same at the very core, reincarnate without an end in the spectacle of creation.
Props for being open minded, unlike many in the medical field. Cheers.
Interesting and uplifting to hear someone can be transformed so intensely. I was wondering about this idea that one may "briefly" have a realisation of the absolute, what makes you think it is only brief, as this sounds a subjective term about time?
@@janetjacks3406 Briefly because there is nothing to understand when you are "it". It's what some would call the Buddha realization. Ego tries to play with the concept, when during life you can have only brief glimpses of the absolute.
Noble prize winner, Szent-Györgyi also brilliantly presented the outcome of the mechanistic view of an organism:
“As scientists attempt to understand a living system, they move down from dimension to dimension, from one level of complexity to the next lower level. I followed this course in my own studies. I went from anatomy to the study of tissues, then to electron microscopy and chemistry, and finally to quantum mechanics. This downward journey through the scale of dimensions has its irony, for in my search for the secret of life, I ended up with atoms and electrons, which have no life at all. Somewhere along the line life has run out through my fingers. So, in my old age, I am now retracing my steps, trying to fight my way back.”4
Traditionally, in both eastern and western philosophy, life is understood as a cognitive or sentient principle. Sentience cannot be manufactured artificially by any noble mechanical and chemical arrangement of dead atoms and molecules. In the ancient eastern philosophy based on the Vedāntic or Bhagavat paradigm, for example, the invocation of Śrī Īśopanisad provides the concept of ‘Organic Wholism’:5 “oḿ pūrnam adah pūrnam idaḿ pūrnāt pūrnam udacyate pūrnasya pūrnam ādāya pūrnam evāvaśisyate - The ‘Organic Whole’ produces ‘organic wholes’. An ‘organic whole’ cannot arise from parts that have to be assembled. That process can only produce inorganic, mechanical or chemical processes, not living organisms.” A similar conclusion was made by Rudolph Virchow in 1858, “omnis cellula e cellula” (“every cell comes from a cell”)
*Knowledge in the mode of ignorance increases ignorance, not knowledge*
Suppose a person goes deep into an unending dark tunnel. The deeper they go into the tunnel, the further they go from the light. Similar is the result of cultivating knowledge in the mode of ignorance. It is the state where we get caught in one fragment of reality while forgetting the rest of reality (Bhagavad-gita 18.22).
To understand, consider a surgeon who operates a patient’s heart carefully but neglects the rest of the body and ends up cutting the lungs. Result? Operation successful, patient dead.
Similarly, today’s predominant ideology of materialism reduces science to scientism. Whereas science seeks material explanations for material phenomena, scientism presumes, unscientifically, that matter is all that exists. But matter doesn’t seek to study science or understand reality; we seek to. Evidently, that seeker is something more than matter. That trans-material self is the source of the consciousness that enables us to seek any knowledge, including scientific knowledge.
By the materialist ideology, whatever else we may know, we know not the knower that knows. The deeper we go into the dark tunnel of materialism, the further we go from the great bright sky outside. Tragically, we celebrate our descent into darkness as the progressive march of knowledge, while labelling the open sky as the fantasy of regressive ignoramuses.
Nonetheless, Gita wisdom stimulates our longing for light with an intellectually stimulating depiction of that vast sky: Reality comprises matter, spirit and the unlimited source of both. In our pursuit of knowledge, matter is meant to be instrumental, not terminal. The orderliness of matter that is revealed through science is a pointer to a transcendental organizer.
This holistic vision of matter shows us the way from the tunnel to the light. Walking the Gita’s way, we gradually realize our spirituality and relish enduring harmony with our source.
Bg. 18.22
यत्तु कृत्स्नवदेकस्मिन्कार्ये सक्तमहैतुकम् ।
अतत्त्वार्थवदल्पं च तत्तामसमुदाहृतम् ॥२२॥
Translation
And that knowledge by which one is attached to one kind of work as the all in all, without knowledge of the truth, and which is very meager, is said to be in the mode of darkness.
Watch
ruclips.net/video/qWuTxNWmpbo/видео.html
@@DaGrybo Not keen on Buddhism personally as I don't think it particularly matches NDE's or DMT experiences very well. It is interesting that Rick Strassman ended up rejecting it after decades involved in Zen Buddhism following his work with DMT recipients.
Graham give me a different perspective on history life and consciousness back in 2012, and life has never been the same. We need more like this gentleman, namaste 🙏
Graham is a genuinely solid guy, I've been following counter-culture and consciousness studies and he was a good expansion on what I've studied with his take on history... There is a war on consciousness! We gotta wake up!
And the unconscious are armed to the teeth.
K.O. ..............seems like if they can't make an math equation , it can't exist ?????
"There's a sucker born every minute" was a saying in the 19th century about P.T Barnum being able to trick people into believing in nonsensical things like the ‘Fiji mermaid,” “The Cardiff Giant” the “161 year old nursemaid” and many other hoaxes designed to earn an income from.
The ability continues into the internet age and the fantastical stories & videos on RUclips about “lost civilizations,” “unexplainable mysteries” and “ancient high technology" put out by profit seeking book authors like Graham Hancock, Brien Foerster, UnchartedX, Randall Carlson and others like them are the proof.
I enjoy listening to open-minded thinkers, it makes such a refreshing change from the traditional, narrow mindedness that shuts out so many possibilities.
" open minded " ?!?!
Anyone who questions their unproven theories is immediately accused of " attacking " them ! !
Yeah...they're really open minded.!
@2msvalkyrie529 He isn't accused. More like can-celet
I feel so lucky to have been able to interview Dr Sheldrake for 30 minutes on a local radio show several years ago. His idea of morphic fields is fascinating. Coupled with quantum entanglement, much of PSI research and findings can be explained.
I thought you said, "quantum enlightenment."
I'd love to see just a single peer reviewed study that even suggests that there is such a thing as PSI.
The conversation was interesting but a lot of stuff was simply assumed to be true without any hint of proof, like that animals have "telepathy". Sorry, not buying it.
Wonderful! I haven't seen or heard anything from Graham in a couple years. Great conversation.
I know ! So picked the phone up and searched for graham Hancock recent and got this , great
He was on the joe Rogan podcast, not sure when tho, u can probably google it.
I wonder if he ever finds out about Starcevo and Vinca culture in the middle of Europe.
Hes been High.
@@rufanuf1 ... Yes, very high, and lots, but not so much, lately. He is going through transformation, like so many are, just NOW...
Great Interview! Thanks Rupert & Graham :)
I think there is a underlying game to steal consciousness playing out with all this pandemic scenario we know deep down. It makes no sense but on a deeper level something deeper is in play
Awesome 🌠💚🙏
@@chippytea.
Something deeper indeed: vibrations & frequencies. The "low rumble" is being chased out.
432 frequency is perfect for sleep. I leave my phone or iPad on what sounds best on RUclips. Also, beware of the time. Make sure it has at least six hours.
We will all learn to exist on a higher frequency collectively, and then possibilities for each concern / problem seem abundant.
It took me two nights to get used to sleeping with 432, 888, 543, etc., Frequencies. 432 is the staple, but some of these YT recordings claim to create out of body experiences.
But get some Ayahuasca from GH first.
😊
A worthy open conversation,
From 2 of the finest minds in our arena,,straight to the nuts and bolts of our journey
Fantastically insightful ☘
I love Mr Sheldrake. He's super wonderful person ❤
This boosted my consciousness to a new high listening to two of my favorite authors. So glad that Graham related that religions should take some responsibility for their heinous acts and my favorite correction, that the Egyptians did not build the pyramids. What a show!
Yeah, and the best came right after with the "act of atheists made the inquisition looks like vicars tea party" quotation.
@@thiagoborsari7364 Right arm!
His correction was that slaves did not build the great pyramids, that they were built by the finest craftsmen. However, he also knows the Egyptians didn't build them. I agree: his comment regarding this was great.
Rupert, Graham, thank you both for being on this planet. You both are the fundament of the next Enlightenment.
Wonderful hearing those two amazing people discussing such important subjects. Been following them both for many many years and am so grateful that they are both able to express their views here.
Iain McGilchrist's 'The Master and his Emissary' seamlessly goes together with what you and Graham are talking about. Thank you so very much for your thoughts and actions. Mind is the builder, after all. As within, so without.
I thought he was a materialist
I enjoyed this dialogue. The more we learn and communicate, the more conscious we become.
@@REDPUMPERNICKEL conscious fits just fine. You can says your word is more fitting but you can’t really say its wrong.
@@REDPUMPERNICKEL how am I supposed to answer that? You want me to do the math and give you a percentage? If I had to guess I would say 1% or more likely even less. However that is not the point here. He said “the more we learn and the more we communicate the more conscious we become”. I am sure some other word would be more appropriate but that doesn’t mean his use of “conscious” was incorrect to use in that sense.
'If an adult is not free to explore and experience their own consciousness whilst doing no harm to others then there's no meaning to the word 'freedom' at all, and we live in a very sinister environment where attempts are being made to absolutely shut down and limit and control what we may think about...' GH
What a wonderful gem of a conversation - thank you from New Zealand!
i think it’s so interesting that every single person watching this has their own conscious. like, they have their own complex life, and they’re not just npcs or an idea, but a real person. the way they portray themself is just electronic waves over the internet, but behind that, we are all people sending out those waves. hard to wrap your head around. in the end, we are all connected through the earth. we are really all one. Liam Stockholm, Sweden
✌from Amsterdam.
good luck out there liam
important point to all that is the mandate to grow and keep developing into an ever improving version of ourselves. It influences everything.
god bless all of you. after feeling alienated and bombarded today, you guys made me feel like i wasnt so crazy for thinking the way i do. 🙏
I suffered from sleep paralysis and sleepwalking when I was a child. Those experiences opened me up to the supernatural from a very young age
Oh wow! I’ve never had an experience like that.
I get sleep paralysis almost daily since I was a kid and I have all sorts of out of body experience but many times I seem to go into other worlds different sorts of people it's crazy I seem to get trapped in them worlds and they always seem horrible and I always find a way back it's crazy once I got trapped into this other world and someone had built a secret rocket to get him self out there but he gave it to me instead and told me you don't want to be here take this get out but it was telepathy communication its just so so weird the kind of experiences I've had I don't know what to make of it because they seem so real
@@sully9836 they seem very real indeed, its like youre tapping into another dimension
@@Plasmamarino go take a huge amount of MDMA and youll have it a few days later. Sleep paralysis isnt a nice experience lol
@@brettharter143 whats that? Drugs?
It's refreshing to hear these guys respectfully disagreeing. no name calling, no demonization, and no temper tantrums.
It was more like Gram Hancock correcting and educating Mr. Sheldrake on his constant focus on praising Christianity. Mr. Sheldrake was slain and from the slight grin on his face after the fact, he knew it. You could see GH's face get more and more visibly upset after each sideways hijack
I've listened to this 3 times now what a wonderful conversation
Try watching the Simpsons ! You'll find more " wisdom " there than listening to these two grifters .
Hm. Guess I'll give it a re-watch in your honor, thanks for inviting me back to this video! (: Even if I had to endure whatever this little outburst of yours was. Of course now that you've posted your negative NPC comment, no one here will ever watch any discussions that aren't strictly spreading scientific materialism! Hopefully this puts an end to anyone ever thinking about something the simpsons hasn't deemed socially acceptable ever again! @@2msvalkyrie529
So glad that Graham clarifies that he is an author, adventurer and gifted storyteller. Some people think they can give guided tours, fly a drone and pass this off as advancing science and archaeology. Graham gleams the scientific publications and makes it available to the masses in a form we can better understand. Excellent presentation and thanks for sharing it with us. Happy holidays everyone and stay safe
He's a useless idiot presstitute.
@@CarlJones14 😔
@@ginaiosef1634 say it how it is. All Hancock wants is an angle for his own pen. He recently had some daft After Skool vid about who would survive a cataclysm.
@@CarlJones14 you are telling me actually there is something personal that triggers you a lot. Regardless what Hancok do, did or does.
@@ginaiosef1634 personal? 🙄😳 WTF are you on about. You replied, I responded. It is a real shame that Sheldrake has got bound up with this waster. 👍🍷
You both have expanded my mind beyond anything i thought possible. Thank you Doctors.
Your mind must have been remarkably small to begin with if these two charlatans " expanded "
it !
The intellectual reason and brilliance of the great scientists in history, so dazzling and enviable to those of us who are not that, quickly pales for those who have transcended it. Thank you for a wonderful presentation designed to facilitate rational recognition of spiritual phenomena by those who are predominantly linear and accustomed to the left-brain mode.
Could you post that again please ?
Preferably in English. Or in words that actually mean something . Thanx !
Legends. Sheldrake & Hancock will go down in history alongside McKenna & Jung & others as some of the brightest minds of their age with some of the most important things to say
I Love you guys, it's like a beautiful blast of fresh air hearing you all talk, I wish I could hang out with you haha 🙏💛
Loved the point in the end - how one has applied the law of LOVE.
Thank you Rupert, looking forward to next conversation you three have !
My Mexican wife has a dog because when she dies the dog will help guide her in the afterlife. Many Mexicans believe this. And I think that what you truly believe is often what happens in the Imaginal realm. I have read that some people journeying therein have reported that there are millions of souls dwelling in heaven-like states which they believed in when alive. Those who do not so believe do not go into such realms. At a certain point they need to move on because it is an imagined state (which ultimately all are).
Rupert: you are one of the best and most noble of scientists living. You've no doubt taken many lumps but you continue to serve and lead admirably, a true national treasure.
Graham, comfort your self in the knowledge that many of us know they are real.
Thanks for all the work.
The yoga vasishtha is also pretty mind blowing. Consciousness, after life, interdimensional travel, other secrets of the universe and essentially the meaning of life in a way never normally conceived by us
What can I do not to think how bad my body feels? I have fibromyalgia, Epstein Barr virus had breast cancer had chemotherapy, surgeries, radiation ☢️ Gadolinium toxicity I feel so bad everyday , I have few friends very spiritually that tells me all the time I can control this but it’s so hard
Very good discussion.
I am a Physicist and I will say that I have experienced many psychic events during my life. These experiences began when I experienced an NDE at the age of 14 . These experiences are 4ge reason that I became a Physicist. I have researched psychic phenomenon for 40 years now. I have come to realize that what we call reality is a kind of computer generated simulation. I agree with Tom Campbell that reality is a simulation. It is a shame that most of our colleagues know this too but dare not express their thoughts publicly. There is no material world. However I do believe there is a base reality and that is where we actually exist.
If you have to give a score from 1 to 10 to this "reality" ...I will give a 3 score...Don Juan by Carlos Castaneda.
There is no such a thing like:
"The experience of reality"!
🙏 Nisargadatta 🙏
ruclips.net/video/MhQqERLElE4/видео.html
The Reality IS❗
The temporary is the prove of unreality.
🙏 Nisargadatta 🙏
"Maybe We're not Searching for the meaning of Life, We're searching for the experience of felling alive" - Joseph Campbell.
I could listen to Rupert talking for the longest time. Such a grounded gentleman. I used to be a big Graham listener as well, however the older I get the more he sounds like a retired hippie to me, who never really passed that flower power phase. it's just too new agey to me and I don't resonate with him any longer. And that is fine :). Big thanks for the conversation
Excellent conversation! Some wonderfull questions from Graham! Thanks for sharing mr.Sheldrake and thank you to mr.Hancock for doing this, also thanks to the gentleman that did the hosting! Regarding the solution to the problems of society, that were stated during your conversation, and which we all know are caused from the same source of interest (hegemony, monopoly of mismanaged resources, manipulation of society, keeping the status quo....), humanity must move forward and leave these fear ridden and greed driven concepts behind it. These sick billionaires and anyone who wishes to manipulate others, or steer the way of evolution and play god over nature, all have a serious disease that stems from fear based thoughts and illusion of separateness. A disease that destroys life, and that can not be allowed any more and we need to heal them somehow. Or be done with them. Once and for all. Regarding religions: The issue with them is with 3 abrahamic leading ones. Their roots are bloody and their doctrines are full of lies. All in the name of manipulating their flocks. If you wont acknowledge this than you are just like these failed university professors that halt the progress of human evolution, by not allowing old and new found truths and new science, to keep their jobs. I wish You all a nice and peaceful holiday season, veliki pozdrav iz Zagreba ;)
Fantastic video, thank you. I took part in the Study at imperial college London in July 2021, it was incredible and terrifying at the same time. Not something I would do again, been in the breakthrough stage for an extended period of time is too much I think for anybody. Life changing, truly incredible, the pre birth, after death and the unspeakable secret, it's all there. I would be very happy to speak to anyone who has had similar experiences with either DMT IV or Ayahusca.
RazzyDogg1 unspeakable secret? Please share ?
I've been experimenting with very high dose psilocybin and dmt and lsd, and combinations of the 3 in high dose for quite a while. Would absolutely love to chat with you!
@@egcowling9657 Absolutely let's chat. I'm not familiar with RUclips private chat. What's the most appropriate way?
@@ufooverlondon4494 the link between life and death, the immortal soul that transcends infinite dimensions. All accessible through love. Love for every living life for in the universe. Take DMT, know yourself then help others, invest time in your loved ones
@@RazzDogg1 I have one of the rarest RH Neg blood types. Experienced profound paranormal experiences since aged 5. Telepathic and visual communication with tall human Angel / Alien beings. First race tall long white blonde hair turquoise blue eyes. Second race resemble us, but thousands of years in advance at least. They are walking among us NOW and throughout Millenia. I have witnessed and filmed UFO / BIOLOGICAL CRAFT and bizarre flying CRYPTID. at close range. At 75 yrs lifetime of worldwide sightings. Countless other Angel / Alien cryptids live among us good and bad. We are connected no separation LIGHT ENERGY MANIFESTS. ALL THINGS.. .BEYOND UFO's The Science of Consciousness and CONTACT with Non Human Intelligence. Met Dr Edgar Mitchell ( Astronaut ) year 2000 in London. Brilliant man who KNEW 'THEY' are around us hidden in plain sight. I remember every detail of my encounters as if it was yesterday. Never taken a mind altering substance in my life. What did you experience ? I have footage of light beings materialising out of spheres, they can materialise and dematerialise because nothing is solid. Call that LIGHT energy substance LOVE and GOD that manifests out of thought.
The near death experience via baptism is fascinating. Explains a lot! I can’t believe I’ve lived for 51 years and this theory had slipped by me. Thanks for the show🙏
Purpose is to give you the opportunity to express your creative expression of infinite love, forgiveness and gratitude...
Great discussion, absolutely agree on all points that any divergence from the "materialist" worldview is not only dismissed but now admonished. It's a concerning trend that I have personally decided to simply dismiss.
So happy to find two of my favorites having a great conversation about the power and mystery of the human consciousness.
the problem for materialist science, which you effectively circle around endlessly without actually nailing it, is that materialism is the philosophy underpinning materialist science, and materialism starts by eliminating meaning from its considerations - there is just atoms, energy, and the void - out of that supposedly everything is built. CS Lewis pointed this out in various forms in his more philosophical essays.
They said that, Graham said it and Rupert has said in his books multiple times. You're not pointing out anything new or profound.
Yeabut, Reductionism does not equal reduction in its meaning or value.
. atoms ,energy and the Void have existed just fine for 12 billion years before humans been around to label it, assign meaning or to make negative value-judgments about it.
Is the Sloth too lazy? Or is it perfectly adapted to its enviroment? To be called a Sloth is offensive. and yet really has nothing to do whatsoever with real sloths.
To be called a sloth should be a compliment, because sloths have survived longer than man has been around to make value-judgments about sloths.
Its a false construct and doesnt help at all,.it becomes propaganda, its a mind trap if youre determined to find Meaning in everything "meaningless" (again, the popcultural usage of the word "meaningless" implies a negative value judgement, this isnt the case In naturalistic material reductionist language
love both of these blokes
Thank you both so much for your works and insights. This conversation was so illuminating.
I agree that the Vedic traditions use terminology which is graspable and direct in ways that the English language isn’t easily capable of. The description of life after death in the katha upanishad is interesting. Likewise the image of a shrine in the heart which is inhabited by a being the size of a thumb .
I have participated in Tibetan death preparation meditation and found it profoundly significant.
Thank you again.
I wasnt with my father while he died and wasn't at his funeral... but about 10 days following his death he appeared to me in a bedside vision. I had looked... during the hours he was dying,,,at a long vid on the Tibetan Book of the Dead right here at my desk. That's all it took. My father came back to thank me. So real, everyone needs to experience something like this to feel fully human.
Wow this was a great conversation for me to wake up to this morning. Thanks to all for your insight and attention to details. We should definitely have sovereignty over our own bodies and consciousness, and the state needs to withdraw from it's invasive manipulation. Bad Marketing and bad precedent.
Consciousness is the ability to have an opinion.
Thanks so much for sharing this talk Rupert. So grateful to hear your take on those many deep concepts.
I love you both! Rupert your books and talks are always SO fascinating, thank you for sharing!
Oh yes, Sheldrake and Hancock in conversation. Brilliant!
And hopefully a part 2 from what the other guy was saying?
These kind of out of body experiences stays within our consciousness and remains as fresh and alive as when it first happened it sets you on a path of spirituality right from the off start thats what happened to me after a very serious car accident as a child but I remember it always Thankyou both 🙏
Thanks to all concerned for this wonderful session. And to the speakers for their important life's work
When I was 19 I was struggling with bad habits. I smoked dmt with the intention to help me break free from my limitations.
In the trip I met the elephant god ganesh. It was in ultra 4k and so detailed, looking at me. After the trip I googled Indian elephant god and then found out it was associating with removing barriers!
So damn crazy I knew nothing about it before hand. Was a very undereducated 19 year old.
Great discussion.
Thanks to Graham and Rupert both.
I saw The Great Mother at a house warming ceremony and was told she would always love and forgive me. I volunteered doing massage at a drop in center for people with HIV/AIDS in the 90's. I had too many experiences to list. Onetime, I felt an angel kiss me when I touched a woman who had to call someone to tell them their sister had passed. While I massaging Tom who was very sick, I described to him a vision that I was having of a man dancing, with flowers, smiling, and saying I am here waiting. Tom said that was his soulmate who had passed 8 years earlier. These experience are possible when we love, help, and assist others who are less fortunate, troubled, and facing life and death. Jesus did not preform miracles but watched those who suffered become a miracle, by providing love, compassion, non-judgement, and harm to no one, with no expectations. The ones who are sick, suffering, and lost, will provide the gateway to consciousness.
Thank you, Rupert!!!
Yup! After having two involuntary OBE’s in my life, I’m convinced that we are not our bodies. So, that convinced me without a doubt that we somehow “live on” after the physical body dies.
I would be curious to see Rupert go on Lex Fridmans podcast.
That dude is a plant
@@thomasfischer9259 i'm all ears, pray tell.
Thank you for bringing Graham and Rupert together. Appreciate their thinking. Perhaps a future talk could involve a Swami of Advaita Vedanta - 3,500 year old ancient spiritual knowledge with insights into every question in this talk. Thanks again.
I remember that happening on numerous occasions looking at the back of someone’s head from my mums car and watching as they turn around to see whose looking at them but knowing there was no way they saw me look they only felt me. Now I believe I am highly connected to others when I do tarot readings I get such accurate readings that it kind of blows my mind. Right now we are as connected as we ever have been but we are now so highly suspicious of each other it limits this potential to be something much bigger. If we all connected to our good intention towards connected consciousness we could make such a huge difference to each other’s hearts.
It’s just an illusion created by your conscious mind after the fact, ie trying to rationalise a sequence of automatic subliminal processes that happen faster than conscious processing of visual information. This type of automated behaviour is especially well developed in highly visual social creatures such as ourselves. Hence it happens faster than your conscious perception.
I found the discussions on reincarnation particularly interesting. I see the reasons for all their beliefs. I would say I believe in a bit of both. Source consciousness fragments itself into smaller pieces to incarnate in a physical body. This source fragment is what I would call the higher self or the soul. I believe this Soul self crafts an Ego self in the human form that lives on in the collective human dream state while the soul self retains all the memories of its incarnations and moves onto the next one. Each incarnation receives a blank slate so as not to spoil the experience of life which is the reason most of us do not typically recall previous incarnations unless we are very identified with the soul self. I've actually had experiences in which I identified completely separately from my ego self and had full on cooperative conversations with my ego self.
Mr Sheldrake and Mr Hancock bend the rigid rules of thought with their extraordinary explanations of consciousness and intuitive knowledge. I find myself provoked into expanding my views on life in ways that my mind cannot always interpret or be able to respond to, but I think both of these gentlemen bring to the table enough questions and analyses to make us see the meaning of life will be mind-food for human beings for all eternity. My own view of consciousness is taken from a scientist from whom I heard him say that when we go to sleep, we seem to go out of consciousness and when we wake we seem to become aware of it again. This makes sense to me in that aren't our brains merely antennas that tune in to the consciousness of the universe? It's the breath of the universe so to speak, and we breathe it in via our minds. And I think every living thing does the same. A spider spins its web because what its tuned in to gives it the instructions on where to build it, how to maintain it, etc. But aside from that, isn't it curious that each of us has his own unique idea of what the world is all about from the get go, and if we can develop our minds like all of you gentlemen have done with years of study and accumulated learning, we find the intellectual dynamite to back our theories to the fullest; but they were there from the first recorded thoughts in our heads. Mr Sheldrake finds the Christian way lines up with what he feels life and the afterlife are all about. Mr Hancock sees beyond a God-man or one supremem being pulling the levers and he is fine with a sort of universal intelligence--if I read him right. What I think is that we all come with our own package--much like Graham's grandchildrens' built-in personality. The trouble begins when some of the weaker souls among us get indocrinated into belief systems they can never break free of and end up living their lives following texts written by faceless ghost-scholars who have said they recorded the word of God and so on. I find the afterlife a probable reality for when the time comes for us to leave our bodies, but what I find a bit hard to accept is that in all due respect to my parents and some people that I've known and other family members is that I would not be happy to be reunited with them or anyone I've known on Earth or know about who is living or who has ever lived on Earth. I'm happy to have known everyone I've ever met, but I wouldn't want that to go on forever--if that's what heaven is. That would truly be hell for me to know that I could never be free of people whom I may have loved or not, but that I would have to endure them for eternity. One lifetime was enough; this must sound selfish of me, but I need to move on in the afterlife, not relive tired old memories from a life I may have lived on Earth. For that reason I hope the afterlife is not meeting up with those I have known before. Lastly, I feel that organized religion is there for those who need to have a guide and all the more power to someone who feels that Jesus or Mohammad or Budha or Shiva is there eternal guide, but I believe religion wasn't meant to be anything more than a stepping stone towards the completion of our understanding of what the experiences in our own lives have taught us. I believe our purpose is that we are meant at some point to stand alone and make our own way and think with our own minds and decide what we should do and when we leave this world, the goal is to walk into the next world without having Jesus or any of the spiritual leaders as a crutch to hold us up. We all outgrow our teachers, because if we don't we will never have lived life on our own. Maybe people who do come back or are re-born in another body have to keep coming back until they are strong enough to make it through life believing in themselves and not others.
Great response - thanks for sharing .
I watched a program about soul planning that seemed to provide answers to a few of these many questions. If everything is white and perfect then there is no contrast. Everything consisting of total love sounds boring and planning challenges for each individual learning experience in each incarnation seems like it would lead to an understanding of what, why, where, how and when. If we are all part of a "big bang" then we are intimately connected and know all there is to know collectively. Perhaps existence in many different forms is the joy of relearning the answers to the ultimate questions and Earth is the form of this particular carnival ride... much better not knowing which way the tracks will lead us, what twists and turns are ahead of us in the unseen future. Perhaps we travel in soul groups by choice which we don't recognize until this particular ride is over and we have the chance to remember and reflect upon all of our previous rides and lives. We, the one which is all there is may find this to be an amusing and interesting way to rediscover why we challenge ourself, what the answer to the ultimate question is...
Been waiting for this for a long time.
Fantastic discussion. Please do this regularly.
Does anyone else screenshot the library and zoom in for more, more, MORE?! :)
You rock Graham!!!
Fantastic. My experience of having passed away briefly is that I am only 'me' when I'm in my body. The sheer peacefulness, but with awareness, of death seems to me to be an indication that we are all tiny expressions of one consciousness. When we die, we simply return to this conscious field and add to its wisdom. Reincarnation of individuals is not , in my opinion, necessary or sensible - there is no sense of punishment or need for individual learning. This universal awareness is simply seeking to evolve and attain wisdom. As we dissolve back into it it is constantly creating new opportunities for conscious awareness all over the universe. God, is at the end of the universe, from our perspective. Perhaps, when the universe achieves divinity, there will be nothing for it but to start the whole process again.
Steveevans ,I like your positive view on this matter. Thanks
What's your view on the fates
Thank you for your insights. What you said about returning to the conscious field and adding to its wisdom really resonated with me. I had this same insight during meditation about a year ago, so it's very confirming to read your take on this.
I picked up a copy of 'The Presence of the Past' from the coiffee table at my girlfiend's cousin's flat about 30 years ago and started browsing, I got hell from her after as I just sat there utterly rapt with it all day. Our negotiated truce was that I bought it in town the next day so I could read it later and stop being so unsociable.
Today I was working at another desk and this video just came on with autoplay. After GH spoke, somebody else came on and was talking about fields extending from the brain and I thought to myself "You're talking about morphic fields, that's what that Sheldrake chap was talking about.." before coming back to my main desk and realising that's exactly who was speaking :)
Subscribed !
I had a near death experience when I was 22 yr old. I VERY vividly remember coming "entity to entity" with God, and a conversation I had with Him. I did NOT want to return to my body, but obviously, I did. That experience changed my entire perception of reality and existence. My existence in a human body isn't the ultimate in life...it's only a glimpse of what life really is that I won't be able to fully experience until I leave my physical body for good. I can honestly say that I am looking forward to my TRUE existence after I leave my body...not the death experience (i'm a wimpy guy when it comes to pain), as the death experience is usually quite unpleasant!
Here is a little story that I have for all of you that is true from my own experience and perspective.
Back in 2004 I had a very serious sinus infection and the doctors were going to put me to sleep so they could operate on my sinuses.
I remember the nurse asking me to count to three and I only remember counting to two and waking up in the recovery room.
I remember looking at the clock and I realized that three hours had passed and I was completely unaware of any lapse of time.
I simply was looking at the nurse like someone had turn the light switch off and then turned it back on and I was in the recovery room asking the nurse when the operation was going to take place and they were telling me that it had already been done.
I was literally in shock and dismay that I did not remember any of the three hours not even a single second.
Another time back in 2010 I was going to have a wisdom tooth pulled in the back and the dentist injected the Novocain into my gums and he hit a blood vessel and the Novocain went straight to my heart. While I was sitting there I felt very sick to my stomach with a lot of nausea and I was looking at the wall in front of me and it seemed like 30 or 40 minutes I couldn’t move I couldn’t say anything and I was just looking at the wall and then all of a sudden I woke up and I realize that the nurse and the dentist we’re shaking me saying “Tom are you all right are you all right” I said yeah I’m fine what happened well for about 10 seconds you were not responding and you were turning blue and I said 10 seconds you’ve got to be kidding me more like 30 or 40 minutes they said no. Again I was shocked.
My next encounter was 2018. I was going to have a upper and lower G.I. the doctor was going to inspect my colon to see if I had any polyps or anything and again they were going to put me under anesthesia and put me to sleep.
This time I told myself that I was going to try to remember everything that went on but the same thing happened again it was like someone had turned the light switch off and immediately turned the light switch back on with 40 minutes gone that I do not remember.
One thing that I have figured out through these experiences is that when you die there is no conscious understanding of time you simply don’t experience anything at all.
To me because of this fact I feel like if time is infinite that sooner or later whatever created your consciousness will happen again in a certain amount of time. A few months or a trillion years could go by and you would not be aware of it.
I told one of my friends about this one day and I told him that I had no fear of death because my consciousness will never die because I’m not going to witness any time or any time delay between my death and my reawakening and he told me “Tom once you’re dead you’re dead and you never come back”. I told him well I could say the same thing before I was born I was dead but here I am alive.
Ask yourself a question... do you ever remember not being conscious ?
fantastic session, will the second part be upoaded as well?
Thanks you both for this insightful and interesting video... What a great pair! I wish I could hear more of the random conversations these two gentleman have had! I greatly look forward to more videos and books and lectures!
Hancock and Sheldrake, two of my very favourite people. Bravo David Lorimer!
1:10:40 '...the next session...' Great, this was just warming up! Thank you gentlemen, for a real treat.
I feel so lucky, as interesting as this is, that I can just do simple breathing techniques and had different experiences with those.
Those have assured me this material world is not the only place.
I like Graham's comment about the evolutionary "need" for adaptation to dreams... indeed, why? Animals make culture. Culture & stress/bliss make dreams. We wonder what Dinosaurs dreamed ? Being both a scientist and an astral wizard, I suspect that both models we make: materislism & mind beyond body are stops along a bizarre journey back to where we started. Well done Rupert & Graham !!
A most wonderful conversation! This embraces my soul! Thanks, guys...
Thank You Rupert Sheldrake for bringing these voices to this platform. I have been further excited to find Jill Purce on New Thinking Allowed. I was blown away to here Jill sing with a sound that I had first heard during a direct experience after expressing in a multitrack recording of a song I wrote for my late brother Robert. The only similar sound in my awareness was from a Didgeridoo. It seems we have a Didgeridoo inside in of us. Delighted to find that You and Jill are connected in many ways. Thank You
At some point, Graham Hancock asks something to the effect of: why would the human body spend an enormous amount of resources and time evolving the ability to create parallel dream worlds full of seemingly independent entities, given how thrifty evolution is. I can't pinpoint the time when he says this, because I slept on the question (funnily enough), but I'd offer the following materialist-reductionist explanation: we humans and our mammalian relatives (like rodents and dogs) found a niche as the ultimate survivalist-generalists on the planet. Our ability to create vast dream worlds (simulations) allows us to pose hypotheses, predict consequences, and solve problems without risking anything in the real world except for a small amount of energy.
Bacteria and insects, with their enormous reproduction rates and huge reproductive capacity, are able to keep up with rapid ecological simply by dying (i.e. Darwinian evolution). But with massive ecological changes occurring every five or ten thousand of years over the course of, say, 65 million years, there would be an enormous pressure and advantage for longer-lived generalists to develop additional mechanisms for adapting to these ecological changes that didn't require thousands of generations of us to die. General intelligence (narrowly defined as pattern-recognition) is one such mechanism. The capacity to create and enter simulations (imagination and dreams) would be another.
As for the question of why we would have shared dreams, it would be because we have shared problems that arise from shared ecological and cultural environments. And so the simulations that we create to explore and solve the problems that arise in these environments will be similar. Ten thousand people might share a dream about Ganesh because their parents all told them stories about Ganesh a hundred times when they were children and ten thousand people might share a dream about being chased by monsters with big teeth and claws because ten thousand generations of their primate ancestors were hunted by big cats and bears.
I'm not denying the existence of anything beyond these materialist-reductionist explanations, but these are the thoughts the come to mind if you challenge me to explain these states of consciousness in the least woo-woo way possible.
I would do so too :)
Only thing left is to take 15 grams dry no tolerance and see if it's all bs haha
As a frequent lucid dreamer, I doubt this explanation highly. Dreams do not follow the rules of our shared material reality and from my own experience cannot train you for the real world at all. Dreams can offer you deep insight or inspiration, but they can't make you perform a task better or help you practice for real world encounters.
Not to mention that dreams can also be a negative. Bad dreaming can seriously mess with a person psychologically, cause problems for them in the day and negatively impacting sleep in future.
Instead, I would describe dreaming more to be the brain trying to run without any external input regulating what its generating or thinking, causing it to invent its own reality using pieces of the reality it knows from being awake.
@@zixx844 There is evidence that the brain internally produces models and compares them against feedback. I think the hippocampus is heavily involved in this, and is sometimes called a comparator. I think there is also scientific evidence that this happens in sleep. Below is a link to a cognitive scientist that explains some of these findings. Also, the psychoanalysts and analytical psychologists studied (and still do) dreams a lot. Their findings also significantly indicate that dreams (can) have deep psychological functions.
ruclips.net/video/vcp6J1T60qc/видео.html
@@kjekelle96 Sorry, but I just don't see how in what way dreams could possibly be preparing you for practical, real world skills. The rules of dream worlds simply do not follow those of the real world.
If dreams are practice for something, its emotional states, testing the limits of your emotional capabilities. From my own experience, emotions are the one thing you'll really remember from most dreams.
“The Buddha didn’t become enlightened by getting a PhD.” 😄💕 L O V E that
🌞
Rupert and Merlin. May They never know disease or pain. May they live their lives in service to Enlightenment forever. Thank You!
admired both of ya'll for some time now. grateful to be fortunate enough to view this discourse
I wake up and my consciousness emerges from the singularity of time and connects into the physical world through my body. While I am awake and conscious of the physical world I can measure the flow of time. When I get lost in my experience and forget to measure time it seems to pass more quickly. Whether or not I measure time it continues to flow. I can be unconscious of the physical world while I am conscious inside of a dream. In that state I cannot measure the flow of time because nothing physical exists. However my consciousness is present in that state as though it is physical. So do I exist in 2 states: one physical and one memory? How can I be conscious in a physical world and measure the flow of time but when I go to sleep I can wake up conscious inside of a dream where I can't measure the flow of time but I can experience memory? Time is emergent and fundamental to physical reality but it's not fundamental to consciousness. Consciousness is timeless like light is and like light consciousness can measure the flow of time in physical space. But in the singularity of time light has no speed because it’s just memory. It seems we create a timeline that exists outside of physical space and our consciousness exists there and connects into our bodies. Spooky consciousness at a distance? Could consciousness be a singularity broadcast through many physical experiences? What if you and I are all just a single consciousness and through different physical experiences we find ourself separated... Only time will tell...
Interesting interview. Thank you. Have you had the opportunity to read the Seth Material by Jane Roberts and its description of the nature of reality? Here he is explaining that the ego-loss theory is a faulty one. We retain the notion of ourselves, but are still able to participate in larger communion. He said that the Buddhist philosophy probably is most like the true reality of things, except the notion that we disappear and disintegrate into the nothingness.
That resonates for me. As Rupert Sheldrake said, Conscious is expressed in innumerable ways. Why would our essence not reflect this infinite capacity for expression? Our unique patterning interacts with others and perpetuates the endless creativity and expression. Fractals of existence in life form.
Mr Graham you have constantly and profoundly managed to fascinate me with your clear articulation of the issues at hand, most interestingly the issue of what it means to be free, around the issue of access and notable drugs.
I just love listening to you. Thank you! Bravo!!
What a great conversation! "Interesting" is not adequate to describe it. It is a real disclosure. Thank you so much 🙏
Here's a question: Much of what Rupert speaks of is well-documented in a wide variety of esoteric literature (Theosophy, The Arcane School, Rosicrucian-ism etc.), has he researched any of this potentially far-more revelatory material?
It is absurd to think one needs "credentials" to be a scientist. It's like saying one needs to have "credentials" to be a fisherman, or an engineer, or anything else.
@Alex Shakespeare No. I would not let someone with credentials OR no credentials in dentistry do a root canal on my teeth. Root canals should be avoided by every means possible, and that the irreparably damaged tooth should just be extracted. Just like I would not let anyone with credentials OR no credentials give me a COVID-19 "vaccination" that I do not need. Or how about this, would you rather have Bill Gates, who has no credentials in biological science, and only an honorary degree, tell you about how PCR tests will detect whether or not you have COVID-19, or the inventer of PCR tests, who has a doctorate and a Nobel Prize, Kary Mullis, tell you that PCR tests weren't designed to detect infectious diseases? Or, how about famous scientists who never had a science degree? People like Benjamin Franklin, Michael Faraday, Charles Darwin, James Prescott Joule, Gregor Mendel, and the list goes on. Who are you to say these people were not scientists because they had no credentials? GG, no re.
@Alex Shakespeare So, you're agreeing with my point, but still sticking with your obviously ridiculous belief in credentials.
@Alex Shakespeare Let's Go Brandon!
I truly believe that we remember everything. I know in some dreams that I am really there. Really recalling everything. I am convinced that whilst recall is hard, we still have memorised everything.
A worthy and wonderful discussion...very glad to have had this exposure.
I believe life and physical reality to be a kind of game, like Dungeons & Dragons, Skyrim or Fallout. In this game you play as various characters who each have different experiences and help you the player, the soul learn new things with each play through.
Here's a spin for you...There's only one player. Each person is the experience that the only player has. In other words the same player playing you is the same player playing me.
As much as I enjoy the minds of both of these gentlemen, they are too anthropomorphic in their perspective! Nowhere do they mention the influence of the microbial world (which could account for much of the Morphic Field transference of information and experiences of non-local information). The planet was terra-formed by microbes which were seeded here through Panspermia. The human form is comprised of cells of which 80% of them are "not-human" and are microbial (bacteria, fungi, viruses, and parasites). When we eat, we are essentially feeding our passengers-not the human body as we relate to it. If we alter the intestinal microbiome it directly changes the thoughts and feelings of the individual (Psychobiotics). So how much is the construct of the Ego responsible for Consciousness? Until we incorporate this paradigm into our mental masturbation about Reality and the Human Experience we will never come close!
Simply incredible!
Hancock and Sheldrake are 2 of our greatest thinkers challenging many long held dogmas. Their writings have transformed my worldview for which I am most grateful.
Nonsense.
These guys are support for people who go about with one foot in fantasyland.
Prophecy is a fantasyland term. We don't have prophets listed in The Yellowpages. We don't have prophet trade-schools.
If there were a god, then would there be any demand for scripture interpretations by various podium-jockeys using fantasyland vocabulary?
We really should address the social acceptance of large numbers of people speaking a fantasyland vocabulary & openly indulging in the deceit of religious belief as a tool of fascism.
These are the wolves in sheep's clothing, we know them by their works:
A wicked generation seeking signs when Jesus The Nailed says faith is worthless if you can't move mountains by issuing verbal orders to one.
Freud wrote the antidote to Christianity is literacy.
The Christians slapped their books on the Old Testament, & the Mormons glued theirs on to them both, thus proving Christians lack quality-control.
Look at the verbose podium jockey speaking of faith & prayer as if we all should have a preference for travel with one foot in fantasyland.
Nothing fails like prayer in a children's hospital, & there is talk as if God does not have a perfect record of doing nothing, as if we had no reason for the saying: God helps those helping themselves.
A house divided cannot stand.
We vote because Christians have no quality-controls, & we desire those governing not making suggestions travel is best done with one foot in someone's fantasyland.
'Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.''
It was secular law & order ending the inquisitions & witch-killings.
One might expect a deity to make itself known to everyone without work performed in interpretations of old literature by guys like our verbose podium jockey.
Theologians acquire grand titles without certification from a deity, & project certainty using fantasyland vocabulary in an academic setting to compensate for lack of reason.Christopher Hitchens' epic opening statement (Must see)
This was a very interesting discussion.
While I have always been fascinated by NDEs and other experiences in which “beings” seem to appear, I have always had certain concerns about them too. The human mind is put together to “entify” things in its environment that might have agency. Something that has agency may eat us or kill us, especially back in our animal history, so why this pattern might exist isn’t too hard to see.
One of my main issues with NDEs is that they often seem to try to convey the “impression” that a complete post-mortal world exists over there, but the details of this world are never filled in. When the attempt IS made to fill in those details (as spiritualism has at times tried to do, historically) the result is almost always hokum - easily discernible as derivative images of our own lives and experiences.
My main concern about “entities” - whether they be “deceased relatives” in NDEs, “DMT beings” in psychedelic journeys, or “aliens” in abduction scenarios - boils down to whether any of these sources actually have an independent life focus of their own when the experiencer isn’t “observing” them. An authentic other source or population would have extensive knowledge bases that we don’t possess. Any relation with them would be rich (and even dangerous) with such exchange. But I don’t see much evidence that NDE relatives, machine elves, or aliens have ever given us any concrete knowledge we did not possess already, which is suspicious of their real nature being an aspect of our own extended psychology.
Rupert’s idea about the afterlife as a kind of dream state is interesting. One of the things stated by NDErs is that there is no time there. Of course, it is difficult to know if that is literally true, but there seems no reason not to take them at their word. Obviously things “take place” in NDEs, just as they do in dreams, or there would be nothing to discuss. It’s just that the concept of “duration” and / or relationship between durations doesn' apply to them well. It’s as if real events are actually creatures of eternity, and thus something that happens is in a sense happening always, without beginning or end. Something of the sort is even suggested with Rupert’s idea of self-resonance as memory. That wouldn’t be possible unless there were some kind of “noumena” of expired events there in the first place to resonate with. Even the Buddhist idea of the personality passing away at death is structured in temporal terms. If the events of our lives are also(or even “really”) happening in eternity, then they may well be noumena in their own right, and “preserved” as we would think of it. There is certainly a question of which consciousness would experience such memories though. Would it be “me” or would I dissolve back into a kind of species mind? Or could differing mortal histories act as a kind of “membrane” that allows a degree of separation of identities even post-mortem? (it is difficult to see what else could play that role really).
My intrigue into the NDE comes from a different point. I had one unexplainable. No drugs or alcohol never listened to fantasy theories. I must see science proof. I have yet to find anyone else that had a hmmm knowledge of an event that happened while fully awake and aware. I was at work. So now I am intrigued.... What was that. What are other states of consciousness. I have never even pondered such.
Entities in NDE´s have shown to have knowledge that was unknown to the experiencer of the NDE. One saw his sister, who was supposed to be alive 2000miles away. But unbeknownst to him and his family, she had died that day.
Bruce Greyson has a lecture on yt with among others, this story.
@@gammaraygem Hi rad. The trouble is that this is really "nonlocal information" rather than new knowledge. It concerns facts that already exist in the world but are concealed from regular senses. A reasonable argument can be made that the experiencer's own extended mind can do this. What I have in mind is new knowledge added to the human condition. IMO, these "beings" (whether in NDEs, DMT, abductions) never provide such.
@@greensleeves7165 Okay but then one has to determine where "You" end and "Other" begins.
Where is the "I" in you that produces thoughts?Where does it begin, or end?
As proposed in Hinduism, "God"" plays hide and seek with him/her/itself..in the end, it is all YOU/IT. Nothing outside mind. Just layers of (apparent) determinism and frequencies, seeming oppositions, hiding from each other, playing with each other...all contained within It. "Newness" (if that is a word) is an illusion. If you can know it, it IS you.
If you practice silencing the inner dialogue long enough ,as in mastering Thought, (our basic Tool without which we have no science, so it is bewildering to see zero scientist practice that, bar a few)), and explore that silence, a different way of being emerges where "I" is consciously extended, or perhaps better said, layers of conditioning peel off to reveal a Reality that is so Real, that the material world appears as an illusion. I tend to agree, that THAT is what one is, not that fleeting subset of vibrations we call a body.
I am still abit puzzled what you might call "new information". We did not expect to find very large structures at the edge of the visible universe. They do not comply with theory. Is that "new"?
We have seen the "tic tac" film (Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon) published by the Pentagon. They (say they) have no clue what that is. Would that qualify?
I have no position on this, am curious though.
@@gammaraygem A hard case would be a communicated treatment for a disease that definitely works and immediately makes a difference to a field. Or the proof of an as yet unproven mathematical theorem. In cases like this, it would be at least much more difficult to avoid the suspicion that it's really our own minds (or collective mind, if you prefer) running these dramas. I am reminded of the fact that Swedenborg's accounts of "life on other planets" failed to mention anything beyond Saturn, as that was the outermost planet known in his time. The issue in a nuthsell: if human beings suddenly didn't exist (or better still...for the purposes of this point I mean... if they had never existed) would there actually be any DMT entities, spirits, or aliens? It's a fierce question.
I had a dream when I was 16 or so that I could fly. It was like swimming thru water but I didnt have full control. There were beings there observing my experience as if judging or teaching me ..I feel as if I had been more receptive I could have learned much more but I was having so much fun flying and trying to learn how to do it again.
similar .... in the night flying .. then coming down That i did not want/ fear then ask abstract ideo of god Nothing Landing ask the opposite It give a little fly . that's all as a kid was ....
I had a distinct awareness that there were those who were watching. They offered teaching insofar as I was capable. I think that lucid dreaming holds a key to our consciousness.
@@aaronlopez717 Dream On
Incredibly helpful discussion. My thanks and Peace to all!
As a facet of the great infinite diamond, I believe after death in the physical I judge myself. Without the illusion of physical existence and once again returning to the ocean, the drop awakens to its true nature, and judges it’s own experience. Anything that wasn’t done in “love” is seen as a crime against oneSELF. There is only one self!