3:06 microns and mesh are both units for particle size, so there's not difference there just expressing the particle size in both miron and mesh scales. 180 microns = 80 mesh.
The other objective of the thing is to keep small things stirred off the bottom making them more likely to get sucked into the sand filter (things that are too small to be caught by the onboard filter). That's probably also the reason for the jets being turned on.
I wonder if the sunlight on the short wall side is affecting the IR sensors. It climbs up the tall side OK, but not the short sides and I notice the tall side is in the shade and the short side is in the sun...
Underwater inductive charging base would be nice. Then you could leave it down there indefinitely. And if it were intelligent enough it could park over a main pool filter inlet and reverse it's suction to dump its contents where it'll all be sucked away and dealt with by the pool's main filtering system.
That is 1000Xs better than I thought it would do. After having a few if these things I would be ecstatic if mine made that much sense. But mine not being battery powered I run it for much longer.
Just did another 1 hour run. It's clear that 1he isn't enough. It always gets in a pickle and then resets the mapping. So you need longer for the semi-randomness of such incidents.
It's a fairly simple space admittedly but the i60 is a million miles ahead of many 'robot' vacuum cleaners that seem to take the cane beetle approach of go until you run into something then bounce off in a random direction and continue.
Only the cheap (or cheaply made but overpriced) vacuums do that. A true mapping vacuum cleaner lets me tell it to vacuum a room across the other side of the house and it very neatly navigates the whole distance, does the clean, then finds it's way back to the charging easily without touching a single thing and staying in the centre of the optimal path..
@@nickstallman2328 The old-school iRobot Roomba vacuums use random navigation and they are _not_ cheaply made. I don't know how their newer models compare.
Something like this probably doesn't need to hit all areas as when run regularly enough it'll get full coverage anyway. Does it get up the short wall with a full battery when it should have a bit more suction? --- Maybe try fixing some flotation to the sides of the robot to make it slightly more buoyant (but still negatively so) . That way it'll be effectively lifting less weight when trying to get up onto vertical surfaces. Something like a sealed pipe either side half full of water. ...Having some amount of water in the buoyancy tanks should mean that when it tilts at a slight angle when approaching a wall the water in the buoyancy tanks will slosh to the 'back' making the side facing the wall even more buoyant than the back helping that end lift up vertically (would likely need a bit of trial & error to get it right).
That battery size market segmentation is kinda weird imo, the price difference between the models is AU$4,000/kWh which is just a bit extortionate. All for having four different battery SKUs with suspiciously perfect Wh differences for their given hours of endurance and weird stated weights if their battery is 200 Wh/kg, I wonder if some of the models share the same battery but are just crippled in software to X hours of runtime? Disappointing the battery is non-replaceable seeing as it looks like it will be regularly 100% DoD cycled. Also the path planning seems to be a lot dumber than I originally thought, looks to be on the level of one those early vacuum robots that only had bump sensors for navigation, when it hits a wall it just turns either 90 or 180 degrees.
I assume the reason it periodically rotates 90 and climbs up the side is to verify it's position in the pool vs it's internal map by checking the side wall is where it thinks it should be
Love how Neuropol (the font used in the company logo and marketing materials) has been the "futuristic" style of choice since Adobe released it in 1996.
We’ve just bought a Roborock floor vac and I suspect the tech in that is similar to the emerging tech in pool cleaners. But the obvious challenge is the ability for the sensors to work underwater. Optical (which is the way the floor cleaners are now going - like teslas) are not as practical under water. So maybe IR/LIDAR might be the way these devices go. And not course the AIs, mapping and computer modelling will make a big difference. Just whether you want that amount of investment in tech underwater. It’d have to be pretty robust tech.
the pool manufacturers should start certifying their pool designs as optimized for AI robot cleaning. As far as I can tell, the ledge isnt constructed in a way compatible with the robot. Also I was very surprised how it was doing the wall climbs, I think it would be way more effective if they focused on the floor mode only, the walls are iffy.
maybe you invite Madimack to solve the quest what is really going on or going wrong and why ? Someone must have been developed the algorithm. At the end imagine someone would clean the carpet that way with huge or bigger areas missing ? Imagine a farmer doing his field in such a way ? can't wait for the full battery time lapse .
Where is the FPV (live) footage if it claims to have an AI built in ? I mean FPV is what youi need to fight the war against dirt, leafs and what not under water. I want FPV view and check looking in front what has to be cleaned and also being able to look back onto the path already cleaned - simply like a minesweeper on the battlefield. What has Madimack to offer ?
Interesting. I have one of those older pool cleaners powered by the hose connected to the pool pump. Someone has been out at my pool filming commercials for one of those new smart/AI battery powered cleaners, but it only works with WiFi enabled and my signal was weak out at the pool. Seems like a design flaw? Supposedly they're going to be sending me a free one at some point... I don't know, I guess I'll see how well it works.
@@EEVblog2 Yes, WiFi required for operation. If it loses the connection the cleaner stops running. I brought this up with the guy who was filming as a design flaw, and he said he's never seen that problem before. I wonder if they only tested it in a controlled indoor environment? This was back when they were doing a Kickstarter for the product (Degrii Zima Pro). Maybe they've fixed it by now.
@@eDoc2020 There's a part that floats on the surface of the water with a cable going down to the pool cleaner. The batteries are in this floating part, and I assume the WiFi antenna is as well.
@@FrankGennari That's much more reasonable. It still might make more sense for it to come with a repeater unit which is put near the house where you get good Wi-Fi signal, then possibly turn it into a different lower-bitrate but longer-range protocol.
Because it's a robot. And some people don't like dicking around with the cleaner hose and attachments. And when Mrs EEVblog says she wants a robot, we get a robot.
Your talking about a Polaris that is powered by water pressure, these are electric these can pick up and clean much much more than those. I'm not sure I'd go for the battery powered myself though.
@@Steve_Just_Steve I can say that this does a really great job of capturing the fine gunk. No idea how the regulat manual pump suction hose work. We do have one of those, came with the pool, but how do you quantify it? With the robot filter I can see the gunk.
I wonder when it does something illogical is because it detected a bit of the pool needs extra cleaning and maybe it don't bother with clean areas.... That would be an AI version to me. So probably not.
Once upon a time people thought that it was impossible to build a mechanical calculating machine because that kind of mathematical intelligence was considered purely the domain of the human mind. Then we built it and understood how it worked and the goalposts for "AI" were moved. Back in the 60/70/80s they had "expert systems" which were "AI" which was implemented in a big series of if/then statements which would ask questions and, for example, diagnose your illness based on your answers. And the media fretted that it might put doctors out of work!😂 Ever go to your high school counselor's office and answer a bunch of questions on a computer and it would tell you what career you might be good for? Same thing. This was AI until we all figured out how it worked and realized it was nothing special and then we moved the goalposts. The current LLMs may end up the same although they do have impressive capabilities and this time we can't really inspect or understand how they do what they do other than in a high level mathematical sense. But inspecting and understanding how the state of the billions of "neurons" does not seem to be currently possible leading to unpredictable results. edit: fix typos
@BenMitro, by using the hook that comes with the device. Mind you, one has to purchase a compatible rod to be able to use the hook. I had to buy mine from Bunnings for an extra $59.99.
@@EEVblog2 I remember doing it with a pole and hose. Just map the pool in you mind and get to work. I could do ours fairly quickly. Then dive in to cool off.
Not really, it does follow a path, and seems to do mostly a complete run over the entire floor. Right hand by the step is an issue likely due to bank angle being exceeded, it does not get the right change in angle with position that is programmed to tell it there is a corner. These cleaners always have issues with steps, sharp angles and sudden depth changes. Good idea to start it on the long step, and see what it does.
3:06 microns and mesh are both units for particle size, so there's not difference there just expressing the particle size in both miron and mesh scales. 180 microns = 80 mesh.
This man makes ice water hash 👍
The other objective of the thing is to keep small things stirred off the bottom making them more likely to get sucked into the sand filter (things that are too small to be caught by the onboard filter). That's probably also the reason for the jets being turned on.
I wonder if the sunlight on the short wall side is affecting the IR sensors. It climbs up the tall side OK, but not the short sides and I notice the tall side is in the shade and the short side is in the sun...
Interesting thought. I just did another run at dusk, uploading now. This time is went up the ledge wall but not the other wall!
Perhaps it remembers the most recently cleaned walls @@EEVblog2
So you you have to fish it out afterwards ? Seems like it should be able to climb out with a ramp, maybe IR or ultrasonic beacon so it can find it.
Underwater inductive charging base would be nice.
Then you could leave it down there indefinitely. And if it were intelligent enough it could park over a main pool filter inlet and reverse it's suction to dump its contents where it'll all be sucked away and dealt with by the pool's main filtering system.
@@DEADB33Fit'll get hammered by UV and caustic environment.
1 million dollar idea summed up in 4 words: Solar frickn' Pool floor
@@EEVblog2i wonder if they are a bit more efficient? ...by being cooled by the water?... that would be interesting to see...
@@EEVblog2 Damn it! I knew I wasn't the first person to think of this.
That is 1000Xs better than I thought it would do. After having a few if these things I would be ecstatic if mine made that much sense. But mine not being battery powered I run it for much longer.
Just did another 1 hour run. It's clear that 1he isn't enough. It always gets in a pickle and then resets the mapping. So you need longer for the semi-randomness of such incidents.
It's a fairly simple space admittedly but the i60 is a million miles ahead of many 'robot' vacuum cleaners that seem to take the cane beetle approach of go until you run into something then bounce off in a random direction and continue.
Only the cheap (or cheaply made but overpriced) vacuums do that. A true mapping vacuum cleaner lets me tell it to vacuum a room across the other side of the house and it very neatly navigates the whole distance, does the clean, then finds it's way back to the charging easily without touching a single thing and staying in the centre of the optimal path..
@@nickstallman2328 The old-school iRobot Roomba vacuums use random navigation and they are _not_ cheaply made. I don't know how their newer models compare.
Something like this probably doesn't need to hit all areas as when run regularly enough it'll get full coverage anyway.
Does it get up the short wall with a full battery when it should have a bit more suction?
---
Maybe try fixing some flotation to the sides of the robot to make it slightly more buoyant (but still negatively so) . That way it'll be effectively lifting less weight when trying to get up onto vertical surfaces. Something like a sealed pipe either side half full of water.
...Having some amount of water in the buoyancy tanks should mean that when it tilts at a slight angle when approaching a wall the water in the buoyancy tanks will slosh to the 'back' making the side facing the wall even more buoyant than the back helping that end lift up vertically (would likely need a bit of trial & error to get it right).
A.I. - Australian Invention 😀
That battery size market segmentation is kinda weird imo, the price difference between the models is AU$4,000/kWh which is just a bit extortionate. All for having four different battery SKUs with suspiciously perfect Wh differences for their given hours of endurance and weird stated weights if their battery is 200 Wh/kg, I wonder if some of the models share the same battery but are just crippled in software to X hours of runtime? Disappointing the battery is non-replaceable seeing as it looks like it will be regularly 100% DoD cycled.
Also the path planning seems to be a lot dumber than I originally thought, looks to be on the level of one those early vacuum robots that only had bump sensors for navigation, when it hits a wall it just turns either 90 or 180 degrees.
Yep, the price variations are clear gouging.
Spark Gap Lingam
I assume the reason it periodically rotates 90 and climbs up the side is to verify it's position in the pool vs it's internal map by checking the side wall is where it thinks it should be
Likely.
Love how Neuropol (the font used in the company logo and marketing materials) has been the "futuristic" style of choice since Adobe released it in 1996.
The dichondra repens seems to thrive there around the stepping stones. :)
Pretty chaotic but interesting. I wonder how it adheres to the wall. Suction cups, pressure difference due to water flow, etc.?
Well that beats watching paint dry for entertainment. Maybe you have found the next tv series for Oz.😂😢
We’ve just bought a Roborock floor vac and I suspect the tech in that is similar to the emerging tech in pool cleaners. But the obvious challenge is the ability for the sensors to work underwater. Optical (which is the way the floor cleaners are now going - like teslas) are not as practical under water. So maybe IR/LIDAR might be the way these devices go. And not course the AIs, mapping and computer modelling will make a big difference. Just whether you want that amount of investment in tech underwater. It’d have to be pretty robust tech.
the pool manufacturers should start certifying their pool designs as optimized for AI robot cleaning. As far as I can tell, the ledge isnt constructed in a way compatible with the robot. Also I was very surprised how it was doing the wall climbs, I think it would be way more effective if they focused on the floor mode only, the walls are iffy.
Having owned a pool for many years what I've found is K.I.S.S. works best. Good luck.
Water ingress 100%, may take 200 hours to encroach the conformally coated boards (depending on pool chemistry)
maybe you invite Madimack to solve the quest what is really going on or going wrong and why ?
Someone must have been developed the algorithm. At the end imagine someone would clean the carpet that way with huge or bigger areas missing ?
Imagine a farmer doing his field in such a way ?
can't wait for the full battery time lapse .
Where is the FPV (live) footage if it claims to have an AI built in ?
I mean FPV is what youi need to fight the war against dirt, leafs and what not under water.
I want FPV view and check looking in front what has to be cleaned and also being able to look back onto the path already cleaned - simply like a minesweeper on the battlefield.
What has Madimack to offer ?
It didnt go up the wall which was in direct sunlight, maybe the brightness messed with its infrared. Try again when the sky is cloudy?
Interesting. I have one of those older pool cleaners powered by the hose connected to the pool pump. Someone has been out at my pool filming commercials for one of those new smart/AI battery powered cleaners, but it only works with WiFi enabled and my signal was weak out at the pool. Seems like a design flaw? Supposedly they're going to be sending me a free one at some point... I don't know, I guess I'll see how well it works.
WiFi for operation? Seriously? This one has WiFi but it's only a gimmick. Not required for operation.
@@EEVblog2 Yes, WiFi required for operation. If it loses the connection the cleaner stops running. I brought this up with the guy who was filming as a design flaw, and he said he's never seen that problem before. I wonder if they only tested it in a controlled indoor environment? This was back when they were doing a Kickstarter for the product (Degrii Zima Pro). Maybe they've fixed it by now.
@@FrankGennari Don't they know 2.4GHz doesn't penetrate well through water?
@@eDoc2020 There's a part that floats on the surface of the water with a cable going down to the pool cleaner. The batteries are in this floating part, and I assume the WiFi antenna is as well.
@@FrankGennari That's much more reasonable. It still might make more sense for it to come with a repeater unit which is put near the house where you get good Wi-Fi signal, then possibly turn it into a different lower-bitrate but longer-range protocol.
Why batteries? The pool bots from the 90's just ran off water pressure from the pool return jet.
Because it's a robot. And some people don't like dicking around with the cleaner hose and attachments. And when Mrs EEVblog says she wants a robot, we get a robot.
Your talking about a Polaris that is powered by water pressure, these are electric these can pick up and clean much much more than those. I'm not sure I'd go for the battery powered myself though.
@@EEVblog2 Uhh no we all know you never like that IoT junk! What about the lads?! (Don't turn it on, take it apart!)
@@Steve_Just_Steve I can say that this does a really great job of capturing the fine gunk. No idea how the regulat manual pump suction hose work. We do have one of those, came with the pool, but how do you quantify it? With the robot filter I can see the gunk.
@@EEVblog2I think she's sizing up the option to replace you with a robot too.
I wonder when it does something illogical is because it detected a bit of the pool needs extra cleaning and maybe it don't bother with clean areas.... That would be an AI version to me. So probably not.
AI? Of course!!!!
Once upon a time people thought that it was impossible to build a mechanical calculating machine because that kind of mathematical intelligence was considered purely the domain of the human mind. Then we built it and understood how it worked and the goalposts for "AI" were moved.
Back in the 60/70/80s they had "expert systems" which were "AI" which was implemented in a big series of if/then statements which would ask questions and, for example, diagnose your illness based on your answers. And the media fretted that it might put doctors out of work!😂
Ever go to your high school counselor's office and answer a bunch of questions on a computer and it would tell you what career you might be good for? Same thing.
This was AI until we all figured out how it worked and realized it was nothing special and then we moved the goalposts.
The current LLMs may end up the same although they do have impressive capabilities and this time we can't really inspect or understand how they do what they do other than in a high level mathematical sense. But inspecting and understanding how the state of the billions of "neurons" does not seem to be currently possible leading to unpredictable results.
edit: fix typos
AI based on the intelligence of what? Hmmmm, might be worth a firmware upgrade or even approaching the manufacturer, I am sure they will help you out.
Ahh, so good to see other people being beta testers. It looks like this technology is a way off being fully capable.
How do you get it out?
@BenMitro, by using the hook that comes with the device. Mind you, one has to purchase a compatible rod to be able to use the hook. I had to buy mine from Bunnings for an extra $59.99.
In this case AI means *almost intelligent*. Maybe if you put a pair of budgie smugglers on it...
You’re welcome 👍🏻
Welcome for what?
I would be asking for my money back. Takes about 10-20 min to clean a pool the old fashioned way.
Which "old fashioned way"? Manual with a pole and suction hose? or the random creepy crawly hose thing? What if you don't want a hose?
@@EEVblog2 I remember doing it with a pole and hose. Just map the pool in you mind and get to work. I could do ours fairly quickly. Then dive in to cool off.
Totally erratic for a robot.
Maybe it's mother drank IPA while pregnant?
Not really, it does follow a path, and seems to do mostly a complete run over the entire floor. Right hand by the step is an issue likely due to bank angle being exceeded, it does not get the right change in angle with position that is programmed to tell it there is a corner. These cleaners always have issues with steps, sharp angles and sudden depth changes. Good idea to start it on the long step, and see what it does.
It does follow paths fairly well periodically.
@@EEVblog2Yes I admit at times it was doing a slow side progression.
It's the underwater currents