This feels more like the early episodes of Dr. Stone when it was just Senku and Taiju. All their creations were janky and fell apart easily. But once they got a proper craftsman, things got better. In general, just having a team of people to aid in the process makes a big difference.
I think that is part of what they wanted to convey, that working together for the same goal is more effective than working as individuals. The other camp was almost the opposite showing little teamwork and everyone mostly doing their own thing.
where can I watch that show? I do not watch anime much at all (I have seen a few seasons of dragon ball and the first half of pokemon) but I am willing to try it.
Like modern cotton candy machine, the one in Dr. STONE has a heat source (a fire) to heat the contents inside the centrifuge. It's questionable whether the heat is enough to melt gold without melting the gold wire nearby but it would solve the clogging issue.
also the metal inside of a cotton candy machien myth was busted by William Osman like a few months ago the thing with metal is that its just so thick and heavy that it cant form small strands of strings and would rather fling itself towards the nearest wall
I've made my own cream soda like this for years. I pour a sheet of caramel, grind it up in a mortar and pestle then mix it with home made vanilla extract and water to from the syrup. From there, just use club soda or stick it in a soda stream. You can also use a brewed method similar to how root beer, birch beer and sarsaparilla were originally made. Make sure to use a low gravity yeast like LA-01 and get bottles with a deep punt if you want substantial carbonation. Regular bottles and jars tend to explode when making soda. Because of the sugar content, you typically just wait for the yeast to kill themselves off with the alcohol they are producing, which is a lot less controlled than dosing with sugar like you would for Champaign or beer.
Wait, you used sugar? I’ve been making it for months and have always been simmering honey for a couple minutes and using that. Didn’t know there was another recipe that used sugar
@@connormcgrath5800 No, you had it right. There is no "other" recipe. It's just what I had on hand when I felt like doing it. I was way more interested in seeing just how close the combination of cilantro and lime came to tasting like cola. If I was truly serious about the comparison, I would have made another batch that included corn syrup as the sweetener in order to isolate that difference as well.
Andy: If there's too much moisture in the mold, it might turn to steam and spurt molten metal at you! Also Andy: *POURS LIQUID METAL INTO A COTTON CANDY MACHINE*
i was just coming here to say that and also to pre heat the mold the temperature difference will also cause reactions, like putting a steaming hot glass in cold water
Pretty sure the reason the Cotton-candy more or less failed in your rig is two-fold; 1. WAY too low RPM. 2. Bad sugar. That sugar seem way too wet, and way too impure. For cotton-candy to properly work, the sugars has to be completely dry, and very pure.
SO your sayig Dr.Stone is NOT debunked?? If this is truly debunked, this means a lot, sadly. The Wires but more importantly the Cotton-Candy is ESSENTIAL. Senku later builds candy-powered Spaceships, his laserweapns wouldnt function without cottoncandy
@@slevinchannel7589 I mean, there is almost no science in either one, what they do is engineering. But yes, they are not perfect, they will have mistakes. xD
@@serenacula3256 I wanna make a Vacuumpump or at least know what i would have to tell a really-talented Cravtsmen in a Stonage what to do to craft one. Can you watch 'Trash Zuma' and his video called "Dr Stone / Making Bettery / Christmas in Stone Age" real uick and tell me all you know about the Use of Mercury?
You could try to make wire using the Melt-Spinning method. You continuously pour molten metal on a spinning roller. Commercially it's used to make metallic glass strips, but I think you could adapt it for crude wires with a groove on the roller, or something, and it might be easier to do than extruding.
@@velazquezarmouries Well, yeah, but if you want to make tens of meters of wire, a method that is a bit faster, more continuous and less manual should decrease the amount of work per meter of wire drastically, making it easier in the long run. Also, if your Melt-Spinning wire is consistent enough, you should be able to lengthen it by drawing it once or twice. (after annealing it, of course)
I was thinking the same thing. As far as I know it needs to have a fair bit of space below the spinner too for it to have a chance to cool before hitting the ground. The fiber used for optics have towers to make em. That may just be a glass thing though. If anyone is interested Google fiber optic production tower.
@@thebillyd00 Maybe if they can get the liquid metal viscous enough without compromising other desirable properties, it can behave like the molten glass, but I think the cooling would be especially tricky. Unlike glass, metal is very thermally conductive, so it would be much more difficult to deal with in a controlled manner than glass. Plus, there's also work hardening, but I imagine that won't be a problem that early on in the process.
wasn't that how the stone and glass fibers that are used to insulation are made? I don't think that'll work with metal either because glass is a polar molecule and trends to act like sugar while metals aren't even in molecular form and the liquid flow will break apart even with a little distortion
Before wire drawing dies were invented, gold wire was made by pounding gold into thin sheets, cutting the sheets into narrow strips, and twisting the strips into long spirals. The spirals were then compressed, probably by rolling them between hardwood blocks or smooth stones, to make smooth wire for jewelry. One signature of pre-industrial jewelry is that the wire has a spiral seam that's visible under magnification. Wires like that were probably made just long enough for whatever jewelry project, but if the gold is pure enough, it can be cold-welded by heating it in a flame to burn off surface grease, then pressing it together, so you should be able to make strips of any length by welding them end to end, then convert to wire
So spinning metal into threads might potentially work, but as you saw with the sugar, you need just the right temperature, and just the right velocity, and just the right hole size. And those will all be different for every different alloy. Plus the velocity limits the length of wire you can get pretty substantially. It's just not an efficient way to do it compared even to hand-forging, let alone using a draw plate.
I like that you're taking inspiration from Doctor stone, its one of my favorite anime. Though to properly test the methods used in the show, you would need more help from a team of people and at least a week of time to perfect each system. But I love the series, this was a unique episode. Great quality content my guy!
To be fair, he used to have a team of people but his shop burned down and he had to adjust. Also he has to spend a lot of time making these videos this probably took a lot longer than a week and he has to publish a video at some point. The major factor is that he learns something along the way that he can share with us. That's his goal.
Look into Continuous Rotary Extrusion for some info on how wire and stuff is done at scale. The cup method you used would work for small scale. You just need more tube with a water jacket below it to cool the metal as it is falls. The metal wont get stuck because it contracts when cooling. You would still need to draw the metal down to get wire. But honestly your easiest method would be to make thin flat sheets and cut that into wire. Heck with flat sheets you could do a sorta proto-circuit board. I think its cool you tested the Dr. Stone method. Would bee cool to see some of the other outrageous stuff he did tested. Would be a cool side project series. Foxtail Ramen ect. The coolest one on the show that was not completely outrageous was the record. Though Im not sure how well you could do it with glass.
Great video! The laminar flow wire making method seems very promising! You might want to try pouring the metal into pre heated oil, so as to cool it down and solidify it while making less of a thermal shock (which I supposed was responsible for the brakeage, although I have absolutely no expertise in the subject).
the breakage is more caused by surface tension; in the liquid state, the metal atoms are more attracted to other metal atoms and less attracted to air molecules, hence the atoms tend to get pulled more towards the center of the molten metal, forming roughly spherical blobs. This is the same reason water beads up when you pour it.
For your final laminar flow method, I think it might work if done from high enough. In the past, bullets were made in shot towers. There, they dropped bits of molten lead from a high place. Due to turbulent flow and surface tension, the drops would form into circles before they cooled, and they would cool from air flow before hitting the ground. If you did this with laminar flow, and a thin enough stream, you might be able to get the air to cool the metal before it has a chance to form into balls.
Andy: "This drop thing caused a really dangerous splash." Also Andy: "I'm gonna pour molten metal into a device designed to throw things in every direction at high speed" (I'm not ragging, I kinda wanted to see that despite knowing it'd be a terrible idea and I'm glad it didn't seem to hurt anyone) That last idea has some promise though. I think maybe putting it closer to the water might help, could give the falling metal less time to accelerate and separate?
Near where i live is a “shot tower”, a brick tower that held a furnace at the top to melt lead, then this lead was poured through screens of various sizes and allowed to fall down inside the tower and through a shaft in the floor to a collection pool dug down into the cliff the tower is perched on. This was used to make small, uniform lead shot for use in shotguns in preindustrial times. The lead would cool as it fell through the air, and surface tension would cause the little droplets falling through the screen to take on spherical forms, with the water at the bottom to cushion the impact of them falling and landing on each other and to finish cooling them. I think that same principle might work with your laminar flow idea, if you can provide enough of a height of relatively windless space for the molten metal to drop through that it can cool to a point that it holds its shape before it hits water.
You just got a new subscriber. If Mythbusters was still around, I have no doubt that they would have tested the plausibility of several sciences in this particular manga/anime. I'm glad to see someone else is making the effort. I wish you could have taken one more step forward, using modern machined parts to give it the best chance of working, but I understand you took it as far as you could, considering you don't have a network funding your experiments. I think the series gets the princables right, just not the practicality.
i wanna know what will happen if you have a larger container. the cup is so freaking small a small spin will definitely throw it instantly... what about a bigger and deeper container with a bit higher holes.. just like what they did in the anime
Also in the show they are generating FAR more torque than you can get with a hand crank. Which means it spins way faster than what this video is achieving.
I was thinking the same thing. I think the problem is the depth, whether it’d work is unknown. I think with the depth and some sort of isolation of heat with the spin on it the forces would slowly raise the metal to have it drip out. The issue I see with what he was doing is basically filling the container and the metal had no where else to go but immediately out the top and the holes
All your patience goes to the wood working and metal casting but not into the actual chemistry or the final execution. I have seen this through all of your videos. Indeed not everyone is perfectionist and but it was surely fun for you to do. And to show off.
Maybe if you pre-burned the wood, it would work as a mold Also I think it's impressive how many things Dr. Stone DOES get right, because the author has to come up with these based on theory and definitely doesn't have time to test them
@@imblank6161 i think dr.stone has 2 science consultan with 1 confirm to have physics degree ? I don't remember if that's Boichi or not, I just know boichi distinct artstyle and stuffs not related to science
@@imblank6161 the science consultant that i mentioned before is called Kurare, which often cited in the manga corner on some pages as Science Consultant Kurare
@@imblank6161 I checked the wiki, it seem like Boichi and Iganaki (the writer) research about the science by themselves with the help of the science consultant, so it's technically a 3 man team, Boichi wiki does said he graduate in physic so there's the degree
most people i know that work with gold wire and silver tend to cast a small thin rectangle then run it through some rollers or hammer it. then they would draw it though the dye and then move to the next one etc and eventually be able to pull it onto a roller as it gets longer. love the video. love the distraction with the candy maker.
There are some good videos on making maple sugar from maple syrup. Simply take the finished maple syrup and continue boiling it until it reaches the hard ball temp. At that point beat it (example video used electric mixer) and whip air into it. As it cools a bit it will transition from a syrup into crystallized maple sugar. Spin extrusion is used for making rock wool so the basic concept works however it requires properly ductile material. Glass or molten rock fit that. Most metals don't. Gold, as you mentioned, is the most ductile metal and is far more likely to work than any other. As others have noted, the Dr. Stone machine had a constantly heated pot which is similar to modern cotton candy machines. That one you used of course is a bargain basement version that I have never gotten really good results out of in the first place. Considering the damage, still a better choice than spending several hundred on a commercial machine.
I have cast a few wire ingots of silver in wood moulds before. It actually works surprisingly well, at least when you use adrill hole it's not "safe" But it makes good ingots
I think the basic premise of this idea comes from the industrial manufacture of rock wool (which is done in basically the same way by pouring molten slag into one of these centrifuges). Rock wool was first made though by just blowing compressed air into a stream of molten material so you could try that as well.
if dropping a large piece into a casting, also make sure everything is heated up. The hard drop and interaction between cold and hot caused such a dangerous splash
There was a lot of fun and novelty when we bought our boys a cotton candy machine for Christmas one year. Well, our older boy enjoyed it but our younger one is basically a mental toddler for life with his condition, so he just kinda watches what we do. Anyway, we pretty much burned through our spinning sugar within a week and it was honestly a LOT more effort (mostly in the cleanup) than just buying cotton candy. But we also took the machine apart and put it back together so I could teach my boy a little bit about mechanics (which is what we do with most of the stuff we buy that loses its novelty pretty quickly.) Not long ago, I caught him watching some of the "How to Make Everything" series and he was shockingly very apt at understanding a lot of the basic principles which gave me a lot of pride and satisfaction. Keep doing what you're doing man. Even if it only teaches a handful of kids what/how/why certain things operate (and are built), then you're putting an incredible amount of value out into the world. I've been trying to be as patient of a teacher as I can, but kids with ADHD are always either 100% or 0% invested into what they're watching. But the more stuff I can teach him, the better of a foundation he'll have for understanding further concepts and the more likely he will be to find what makes him happy. Thanks again, guys!
This is fascinating. I'm so intrigued by the gearbox you made. Also interested to see if you'll make braided wire using a similar machine to how braided rope is made from strands of twine. (I'm pretty sure I still have the schematics for the rope making machine we used in my boy scout troop if you want them)
@nesmun yeah the thing about a gearbox is it can make a lot of torque. There are actually a few really nice videos on the US Auto Industry channel that do a good job explaining stuff like differentials and gearboxes and transmissions
That works good with soft metal. You can use 2 sets of rollers mounted at right angles. It can also help to follow the rollers with a steel plate with graduated holes drilled through it. Use another set of rollers after the plate to help pull the wire through. Keep pulling it through successively smaller holes in the plate. Make sure your current hole is only slightly smaller than the current diameter of the wire. Heating the stock as you feed it into the rollers or pull it through the aperture helps too.
sweet video! i think the obvious way to make wire is just to get a blacksmith to do it. if you hammer metal into thin sheets, and then roll up those thin sheets, you can get a decent approximation of a modern wire even with only basic blacksmithing skills. very labor intensive though. could always try to make a sheetmetal roller, but ehhhh there are some safety concerns there. even modern rollers can be sketchy at times.
Some thoughts on what went wrong with the experiment: The pot was too small as well as the holes, leading them to get clogged quickly. Starting with a larger pot with larger holes higher up on the sides would make the melted sugar/molten metal climb the sides and produce finer strands. Instead of pouring the metal into the pot giving it a large chance to splatter as it touches cooler metal, starting with the metal in the pot already and heating the whole thing so it's not molten all at once, resulting in thinner streams of metal heading for the holes as well.
Cool video! It’s unfortunate you didn’t seem to do your research on cotton candy making. Using the right sugar is the most important factor, if you had just tried your setup using only the white sugar from the beets it would have likely given you much better results
For casting wire, I think the press method used to extrude corn puffs should work better. So you would put the hot-liquid metal into a container with a pipe on a side, then you use a weighted piston to push the hot metal through the pipe, and you might need to use an awl to empty the pipe after each use.
Hmm, the test at casting a cotton candy machine through pressing into it showed that manually pressing into molten metal isn't too weird of an idea... So maybe if he gets a sealed crucible with a hole exactly fitting a pipe, and the pipe has a tiny hole in it throughout... then pushing the pipe into the crucible full of molten metal would cause pressure to rise, until it manages to push the metal through the pipes entire length. This is sort-of like his laminar flow idea, except using pressure instead of gravity, and a pipe long enough that the metal goes solid before exiting the pipe - leading to a wire coming out the end. I imagine relying solely on gravity won't work, as the friction inside pipe likely can't be overcome by gravity once the metal turns solid.
Continuous casting, i.e. bars, tubes and wires from a crucible with a hole is a commercial process, but it's finicky, and the metal needs to be cooled so it's solid pretty much immediately as it comes out of the hole or actually just before, without actually plugging the hole. And the metal needs to come out at the correct rate too so the metal neither just all runs over the floor nor the entire crucible freezes. Apparently a water cooled copper block is uses to start the pour, extrusion or whatever you call it. I did hear that the Ancient Egyptians used to continuously cast wire for their chariots and bows, apparently it was pulled out under tension at a well judged rate. And either then through conventional draw plates. But this might be a complete fiction. I find it unlikely that they had anything remotely strong enough under heat. As well the advantages just don't seem to be there. If it's drawn anyway, and to have any strength it must, then it would seem that they would be limited to melting small batches anyway, and so they might as well cast an appropriate sized ingot and use that, either casting it to the right shape to get it through the first draw plate or more likely hot working a roughly bar shaped ingot into long and thin and pointy enough to pull it through the first plate.
I enjoy Andy's brutal critiques of his methods. No embellishments here. It really goes to show that the biggest innovation of the industrial revolution was a transition from manufacturing based on mastery and craft to manufacturing based on raw labor, with the craft abstracted into machine creation.
Andy: a way that ive read people used to make wire is to use a draw plate. where the holes through the plate are cone shaped so as you pull the wire through the narrowing side it stretches the wire out into a thinner strand with each pull
Yeah, that was always a questionable method. If I really had to make wire in that scenario, it'd probably be easiest to have a blacksmith just hammer it thin. Gearbox looks great btw.
Definitely not, drawing wire is no easy task. I'd use a similar method to the shows but not a centrifuge, maybe a heated secondary crucible with small holes in the bottom and I'd drizzle thin wires out as long as I could, reheat and redrizzle.
@@i8764theKevassitant i don't know about using wood for a mold, i would go with cob or stone. As for forging it that is total bullshit, i am talking from experience, i am a novice blacksmith. also i might have a better way, just get it red hot on one end and pull it, i have seen it work for glass firsthand, it would take a lot of practice to get it right and using a normal fire instead of a torch would make it even harder.
@tater anus I've seen wood work for what we're talking about. Stone would be too prone to snagging the softened metal. A nice hardened steel sizer would be best but if you're doing it Dr stone style, woods the best bet, you'll go thru a few molds but the wood will char and compress so for rudimentary wire itd be just fine. Polished stone would probably work.
I think maybe it's still possible if you don't melt it all the way. Part of the reason (at least from what it seems) is that cotton candy goes stringy because it's not quite liquid when it's either cooling or when it's being poured. So if you only heat up the gold to the point where it almost is liquid but still solid, it would be pulled and thinned rather than pulled and dropped. The other problem with that though is the rapid cooling could still give it thermal shock so maybe doing it in an enclosure that isn't as hot but still a temp closer to whatever the temp going in is at. The last problem is that this is still vary far-fetched to be done in the stone age and to have that type of temp control.
that wooden gear thing could probably improve your attempt at making a lathe, and/or a drill-press. just needs an extra bit to slot the end through so that it's more stable and doesn't start to wiggle. also, have you seen laminar flow tea kettles? find out how those work, and make a crucible that pours like a tea kettle out of a spout
wire i imagine is more like a metal is plastic scenario where smithing and stretching is the best option. interesting to see other methods attempted but not surprised molten metal has surface tension and low viscosity that makes it not want to stretch into long wires.
Maybe it's a more complex idea than is worth testing, but your laminar pour method plus a rotating bucket of sand might work. Especially if the bottom of the sand-bucket was mesh and there was air pumping through the side that doesn't get poured onto. That way warm wire sinks and cools, while fresh wire falls onto empty sand.
You could try drop forging the wire. Like how they used to make shot for guns. Get your laminar flow going high up, and instead of dropping into a bucket just let it air cool. I bet 6-10' might be enough to see results. Actual shot towers were pretty tall, but a thin wire has a higher surface area to mass ratio than a spherical bead.
The reason why the sugar makes thin wisps when spun in the centrifuge is because when caramelizing sugar, the decomposition reaction causes the formation of polymers. These polymer molecules stick to each other through covalent bonds and form long chains that can be pretty thin even when in a liquid or semi-liquid state. Metal when melted still has its metallic bonds, but as temperature increases these bonds get weaker until they finally break when the metal boils. Molten metals don't have the same affinity to form chains like polymers do, metals like tin and copper have a fairly high surface tension so they'll just bead up. I don't know how viable cotton candy centrifuge wire is, but if you poured more molten metal in your metal container and the increased the tube length it would increase the pressure pushing the metal down the tube. If you had the tube actually submerged in the water, so the molten metal is not freefalling and having time to potentially bead up, it would start cooling the metal before it hits the water creating a steam explosion. Great video as always!
1: gold (and pure gold at that) is one of the few metals with the correct surface tension, flow-solidify temperature ranges, and density to allow potential spin wiring, however, yes, you would have to be VERY exact in how you ran it and made it. 2: the sugar used for cotton candy is a huge factor in how well it works, and microadditives often massively change the effect. 3: he used a many year sun and salt dried aged non sealed plank, thus effectively fully drained of all sap, moisture, and other issues. Ideally you would bake the shaped mold in a kiln like hutch to further carbonize and dry it, but that has diminishing aid it gives. In many environments well aged wood is more reliable than common soil. 4: unlike the show, the manga went FAR more indepth into details and often hid exact numbers in the background illustrations
I wish you'd make a video about one of my favorite documentary series, James Burke's Connections, where he traces several basic inventions from their birth to our modern society of today; basically the history of invention and how they're all connected together
i think your last attempt at an continuous casting setup was not that bad. might want the water closer to the metal outlet to cool it before it has a chance to form beads.
I love dr stone and every time I watch it I always come back to this channel. Super cool to see you trying a bunch of the cool little stuff they tried. Like the wire mold. Its also always cool to see a more grounded take on the rebuilding of society.
Maybe using a technique similar to candy makers making hard candy? As in, pour the metal in a way you can still move it while it is hot enough to still be somewhat soft but cold enough to not be liquid anymore, using two rolers to spin it and a system to pull and stretch it? Maybe that would be a consistent way to make a thin and maleable wire?
There are examples of wire jewelry and wire sculptures dating back to about 4000 years ago, placing it in the middle to late bronze age. Gold was poured into thin plates then pounded into sheet, cut into strips and rolled into wire. Once the iron age came around, the process was updated to hammering small rods into a grooved anvil. Drawing wire was also discovered around the same time and eventually overtook both of the other methods and is still used for most wire production today. Because gold work hardens the annealing process must have been used to prevent breakage in all of these methods. This means that copper wire was likely also being produced around this time. That said, gold has one unique attribute among materials of the time that made it a far superior option. Gold can cold weld. It is unknown if this was lost knowledge or truly not discovered until the 20th century. Since people were beating stuff with big heavy objects just to see what happens since the stone age, it's safe to assume someone had tried to get a broken piece of gold foil to go back together with the tools they were using to make it in the first place.
HTME is so awesome. I keep following because it's always going to be another day of craziness and fun. Pouring metal into a centrifuge? I would never by myself, but definitely worth watching you guys go through. (also, be careful, and I hope you're okay, Andy) HTME is one series I have to keep telling everyone to watch because of how awesome they do it.
I think this issue is a more complicated than just surface tension. Surface tension is responsible for the beading of the metal, but when we look at things like glass or sugar, they stretch and bend long before they melt. We're dealing with a viscosity problem that may have a surface tension component. Molten sugar is fairly viscous, so it stays together as it is stretched/thrown, but most molten metals flow almost like water, so their ability to stretch (viscosity component) is fairly low, which causes them to bead (surface tension component). I'm certain there's more to the problem (fluid dynamics is complicated), but chasing this problem really isn't worth it when drawing wire works, so long as the wire is regularly annealed.
I saw a video form the British Museum talking about Saxon gold artefacts, and the curator saying that the valuble stuff wasn't the big lumps of gold - its was the braided golden wire because wire was SO MUCH WORK to make
Dr Stone is a great example of “here’s the underlying idea behind the science” show. There is quite a bit of hand waving for the practical side of their methods.
I think this is why they made the crucible oversized in the show just to make it possible to pour in the sugar without it catching on the shaft. I'd also try loading the crucible with solid sugar chunks then heating it, that might work better.
for the copper wire and wood mold experiment, i think the wire was kinda thick. i'd wager half as thick as hemp rope. i know we use thin and tightly wound wires for motors. but the purpose of their wire was to wrap it around some iron ingots and have them struck by lightning to create magnets. i think i saw a comment on another video that made it sound feasible, just need to be in an area where one can set it up like a lightning rod
Great video! As always, I appriciate your content and approaches. I would appriciate it if you put links to those other videos somewhere. While I was able to locate them after a bit of digging, it took quite a while to locate
I think the main thing you need to make it work with metal making wire is time... and that probably would need to come from distance. A somewhat similar manufacturing method that was used in production was for lead shot. They would drop it down from the top of a tower, often over 100'. A "Shot Tower" also used water to "catch" the molten balls at the bottom. The way they dispersed the molten lead into shot was by pouring through a copper sieve. I imagine to form wires the metal is likewise going to need more distance / time to travel through the dispersing orifice... think deep thru-holes vs holes through a thin material.
My understanding is that liquid metals behave more like water than a paste even at the coldest melting temperature (easy to separate, not much tensile cohesion). The cotton candy machine melts the sugar as it spins, so the sugar is 'just' turning to a liquid at the point it gets flung out and liquid sugar wants to stay together at that point. The Dr. Stone method may be 'possible', but the number of variables needed to make it work are impractical (it has to go from 'barely liquid' to 'solid' in a fraction of a second and at a speed such that it does not separate from itself in that time frame). Making rods and drawing those down using presses to make wire would be more feasible I think. Still, the whole process in the show was very entertaining.
There are elements of this that I think work in principle, but are more difficult to achieve in practice. In order to make a wire, you need to have no breaks in the flow, which means you need the reservoir to be full at all times with zero air pockets, such that there's a constant unbroken stream of gold coming out of the nozzles. Of course that's a lot easier to achieve with water than rapidly-cooling metal.
In a way, Senku is the perfect representative of modern science. All theory, no actual practice. But Senku can fudge it by being a fictional character.
Actually making metal wire with the old method in the 1800's included taking a round piece of a ductile metal and drawing (pulling) it through a tool called a drawing or wire die and gradually decreasing the diameter of said metal until you end with the wire you need. This process would also make the metal stretch longer and longer. That's why at some point, two roller bars mounted on stands are placed at either end to help hold the wire during the process.
For the board method to be more plausible i would say to bake the top of the board and get a good char after carving. As well as carve deeper channels into the wood. Ideally this would take as much moister out of the surface as possible.
Hm. Nice idea. If you are serious about this, you really need to take more time on each step to improve the quality. There's also the matter of scale and having extra hands. 1. Casting the bowl. The standard sand casting method would be to have a fill hole or two and poke it in a few places for the gas to escape as the metal filled the sides. If you have enough molten metal and the mold is warm, the metal would take several minutes to solidify. Adding the top afterward is the typical mistake kids would do but, leave an overflow spout and lower it slowly, and the compression would make the resulting bowl stronger. 2. Bowl size and shape: The extrusion bowl for the candy series looked like it could hold at least a gallon of liquid and the walls were at least 1/4 inch thick. When they took it out of the mold,it looked like it had 1/2 that volume and thicker walls. That means it can hold a larger mass and hold the heat longer than the one you were using, resulting a more consistent and controllable flow. Extrusion tubes could have been formed with a stone spike and a wooden hammer using techniques like repousse. 3. Turning method: Using the bowl and the converted shield as free-spinning flywheels, thew were able to get things turning much faster by striking the edge as fast as they could swing their arm on the cotton candy stage than you could with just a crank. It helps that there was another person to put in the ingredients. Using pull cords and ratcheting gears they were able to take that to another level for the gold extrusion phase. 80-100+ lbs of teenager throwing their weight into it can produce more torque than most electric hand drills. Naturally, it's important for the framework to be well anchored. 4. Preheating the bowl: For the sugar and the gold, the extrusion bowl needs to be constantly heated to keep the material liquid. 5. Multiple prototypes: The cartoon version doesn't show the prototyping process with trial and error, analysing failed attempts and making improvements. The manga version does sometimes show the graveyard of failed projects.
To make wire, you can make a series of rollers with grooves that decrease in size as it is getting pulled, there could be an issue with mainatining constant heat and a consistent amount of force to "pull" it
Additionally, maybe try pouring the metal wire in sand in a vertical mold? I don’t know anything in that field so I don’t know if that’s a plausible idea, but like have a basic length standing mold and find a thin object to begin with like the thinnest but longest twig you can find. Poking a hole in the mold and then pouring as you did when they were horizontal??
I would say carry on with that drop process. At a greater height it should form a skin before quenching. Viscosity is temperature dependant and your aperture will vary by material. You may even consider a pour to get a super fine drop to draw.
You know, they probably got a lot of the gold in the show from the ruins of the old world. Since gold doesn't corrode in the way other materials do, it's possible a ton of it was available by scavenging what used to be computer parts.
@@DesignThinkerer all of that gold was probably buried, the only recognizable landmark they found was a bronze statue because bronze is more resistant to corrosion and poisons the plant life that grows around it, otherwise no buildings or processed materials were found.
best way to make wire is probably the way wire is thinned out by goldsmiths today. they use molds that have cone shaped holes which they pull the wire through to bring it down to diameter. this give the wire extra lenght in the process as well which helps
Speaking of William Osman, with the help of the backyard scientist, he melted lava rocks and poured them into a cotton candy machine, successfully making some form of rock wool. I doubt you could repeat this with through hand turned wooden tools, but perhaps you could repeat it with some alloys?
This video reminds me a lot of William Osman where in one video they tried to put molten metal into a cotton candy machine which failed as with your video the explaination for it is that metal is just so heavy and viscous that it cant really form delicate strings and would turn into blobs and fling itself to the nearest wall
if i could make a suggestion for the wire (as someone who has made silver wire) try casting a long ingot and pull it through a draw plate (easy to make)
casting wire has metal's surface tension and low viscosity working against it, as metal will turn to droplets far too quickly, on the other hand, you could plastizise the metal (heat it until it becomes soft) and then spin it at high speed by holding one end to a weight, won't be perfect but should stretch the metal enough (try it with alloys that soften, pure metals will melt quickly)
everything shown was....theoretically possible. throw in a large pinch of anime suspension of disbelief and it really isn't that bad. Just because HTME can't do it doesn't mean no one can do it, most of his creations are super jank lol
@@ExarchGaming my main problem is that most of the inventions are not a good way to do the thing they're designed to. It would be much easier for a blacksmith to make small chunks of sheet metal and then form them into the bowl shape. And you don't have to be a skilled blacksmith for this. You just need to have a hammer and a hot fire. Then you have to consider that gears are a bad way of increasing speed for that. Pulleys are smoother and easier to build, plus you could fit more of them for a better gear ratio. Plus it's just not physically possible to make wires by slinging molten metal like that. The surface tension of the metal is way too high and it can only come out as droplets. You could just make rollers to thin out the metal and then draw it out. If you want to automate the process, you could use metal gears to pull the metal through. It feels like they're writing a character that's meant to be super smart, but because they don't have a good understanding of what they're writing about, it comes across as pretentious. Like the main character thinks he's so smart but his machines are all poorly designed and only work because plot
The way Dr stone does it is just bad, everything they do doesn't feel like a major accomplishment and it's feels like "we invented this cool thing in seconds and now we're on to making something else" and I feel the way they do the making of things with what seems to be zero effort gets rid of the excitement of accomplishing their goal. It makes such a cool idea so mundane and uninteresting
The method of dropping molten metal into a cup and allow it to drip was the basic method for making shot for shotguns in shot towers. The molten lead dropped into pools of water over a greater height to create spheres.
This feels more like the early episodes of Dr. Stone when it was just Senku and Taiju. All their creations were janky and fell apart easily. But once they got a proper craftsman, things got better. In general, just having a team of people to aid in the process makes a big difference.
I think that is part of what they wanted to convey, that working together for the same goal is more effective than working as individuals. The other camp was almost the opposite showing little teamwork and everyone mostly doing their own thing.
where can I watch that show? I do not watch anime much at all (I have seen a few seasons of dragon ball and the first half of pokemon) but I am willing to try it.
@@tateranus4365 I just watched every season, they're on Crunchyroll, really funny and intelligent, highly suggest.
@@tateranus4365 crunchyroll, it’s subscription based but you can probably finish it within the free trial period
@@tateranus4365its on Crunchyroll
Like modern cotton candy machine, the one in Dr. STONE has a heat source (a fire) to heat the contents inside the centrifuge. It's questionable whether the heat is enough to melt gold without melting the gold wire nearby but it would solve the clogging issue.
also the metal inside of a cotton candy machien myth was busted by William Osman like a few months ago
the thing with metal is that its just so thick and heavy that it cant form small strands of strings and would rather fling itself towards the nearest wall
in the end there is a lot of technicalities but the point was proven cotton candy can be in theory made with enough effort
I tried the Dr. Stone Cola recipe once. It does kinda work. If I ever do it again, I'll be using caramel instead of sugar just for the cola look.
I've made my own cream soda like this for years. I pour a sheet of caramel, grind it up in a mortar and pestle then mix it with home made vanilla extract and water to from the syrup. From there, just use club soda or stick it in a soda stream.
You can also use a brewed method similar to how root beer, birch beer and sarsaparilla were originally made. Make sure to use a low gravity yeast like LA-01 and get bottles with a deep punt if you want substantial carbonation. Regular bottles and jars tend to explode when making soda. Because of the sugar content, you typically just wait for the yeast to kill themselves off with the alcohol they are producing, which is a lot less controlled than dosing with sugar like you would for Champaign or beer.
Wait, you used sugar? I’ve been making it for months and have always been simmering honey for a couple minutes and using that. Didn’t know there was another recipe that used sugar
@@connormcgrath5800 No, you had it right. There is no "other" recipe. It's just what I had on hand when I felt like doing it. I was way more interested in seeing just how close the combination of cilantro and lime came to tasting like cola. If I was truly serious about the comparison, I would have made another batch that included corn syrup as the sweetener in order to isolate that difference as well.
@@sirnukesalot24 ah, gotcha
Yeah the recipe says to caramelize honey.
Andy: If there's too much moisture in the mold, it might turn to steam and spurt molten metal at you!
Also Andy: *POURS LIQUID METAL INTO A COTTON CANDY MACHINE*
i was just coming here to say that and also to pre heat the mold the temperature difference will also cause reactions, like putting a steaming hot glass in cold water
must be the same temperature of the metal (gold hunters tv show).
We wonder why his last shop burned down
>Literally drops a log into molten metal
For casing in wood if you burn the wood so you have carbon for the metal to sit in that helps insulate the wood and slows down the wood burning.
Why would burning the wood slow down burning the wood?
@@melody3741 Wood already burnt. Wood no burn again.
@@melody3741 the carbon layer from the wood insulates the rest of the wood. You need to let the wood cool down after
@@melody3741 The carbon layer from burning it first creates a layer blocking the metal from water in the rest of the wood.
@@melody3741 There have been 2 explanations:
wood burn
wood no burn again
*insert high detail analysis of the exact benefits*
Pretty sure the reason the Cotton-candy more or less failed in your rig is two-fold;
1. WAY too low RPM.
2. Bad sugar. That sugar seem way too wet, and way too impure. For cotton-candy to properly work, the sugars has to be completely dry, and very pure.
Crucible size, as well. With a crucible so small you're gonna get almost no centripetal force, which was really the whole point of the system.
SO your sayig Dr.Stone is NOT debunked??
If this is truly debunked, this means a lot, sadly. The Wires but more importantly the Cotton-Candy is ESSENTIAL. Senku later builds candy-powered Spaceships, his laserweapns wouldnt function without cottoncandy
@@slevinchannel7589 Don't give spoilers! I haven't caught up to the manga yet! D;
@@slevinchannel7589 I mean, there is almost no science in either one, what they do is engineering. But yes, they are not perfect, they will have mistakes. xD
@@serenacula3256 I wanna make a Vacuumpump or at least know what i would have to tell a really-talented Cravtsmen in a Stonage what to do to craft one. Can you watch 'Trash Zuma' and his video called "Dr Stone / Making Bettery / Christmas in Stone Age" real uick and tell me all you know about the Use of Mercury?
You could try to make wire using the Melt-Spinning method.
You continuously pour molten metal on a spinning roller.
Commercially it's used to make metallic glass strips, but I think you could adapt it for crude wires with a groove on the roller, or something, and it might be easier to do than extruding.
Drawing is technically still the easiest method
@@velazquezarmouries
Well, yeah, but if you want to make tens of meters of wire, a method that is a bit faster, more continuous and less manual should decrease the amount of work per meter of wire drastically, making it easier in the long run.
Also, if your Melt-Spinning wire is consistent enough, you should be able to lengthen it by drawing it once or twice. (after annealing it, of course)
I was thinking the same thing. As far as I know it needs to have a fair bit of space below the spinner too for it to have a chance to cool before hitting the ground. The fiber used for optics have towers to make em. That may just be a glass thing though.
If anyone is interested Google fiber optic production tower.
@@thebillyd00 Maybe if they can get the liquid metal viscous enough without compromising other desirable properties, it can behave like the molten glass, but I think the cooling would be especially tricky. Unlike glass, metal is very thermally conductive, so it would be much more difficult to deal with in a controlled manner than glass. Plus, there's also work hardening, but I imagine that won't be a problem that early on in the process.
wasn't that how the stone and glass fibers that are used to insulation are made? I don't think that'll work with metal either because glass is a polar molecule and trends to act like sugar while metals aren't even in molecular form and the liquid flow will break apart even with a little distortion
Before wire drawing dies were invented, gold wire was made by pounding gold into thin sheets, cutting the sheets into narrow strips, and twisting the strips into long spirals. The spirals were then compressed, probably by rolling them between hardwood blocks or smooth stones, to make smooth wire for jewelry. One signature of pre-industrial jewelry is that the wire has a spiral seam that's visible under magnification. Wires like that were probably made just long enough for whatever jewelry project, but if the gold is pure enough, it can be cold-welded by heating it in a flame to burn off surface grease, then pressing it together, so you should be able to make strips of any length by welding them end to end, then convert to wire
thinking about how they really do honest to god make gold leaf by hammering it to a thousandth of an inch.
So spinning metal into threads might potentially work, but as you saw with the sugar, you need just the right temperature, and just the right velocity, and just the right hole size. And those will all be different for every different alloy. Plus the velocity limits the length of wire you can get pretty substantially. It's just not an efficient way to do it compared even to hand-forging, let alone using a draw plate.
I like that you're taking inspiration from Doctor stone, its one of my favorite anime. Though to properly test the methods used in the show, you would need more help from a team of people and at least a week of time to perfect each system. But I love the series, this was a unique episode. Great quality content my guy!
To be fair, he used to have a team of people but his shop burned down and he had to adjust. Also he has to spend a lot of time making these videos this probably took a lot longer than a week and he has to publish a video at some point.
The major factor is that he learns something along the way that he can share with us. That's his goal.
Look into Continuous Rotary Extrusion for some info on how wire and stuff is done at scale. The cup method you used would work for small scale. You just need more tube with a water jacket below it to cool the metal as it is falls. The metal wont get stuck because it contracts when cooling. You would still need to draw the metal down to get wire. But honestly your easiest method would be to make thin flat sheets and cut that into wire. Heck with flat sheets you could do a sorta proto-circuit board. I think its cool you tested the Dr. Stone method. Would bee cool to see some of the other outrageous stuff he did tested. Would be a cool side project series. Foxtail Ramen ect. The coolest one on the show that was not completely outrageous was the record. Though Im not sure how well you could do it with glass.
I've seen a lot of food people tackle the ramen. It never ends well, lol.
How do i make a Gold-Sheet?
@ScamstinCrew
Great video!
The laminar flow wire making method seems very promising! You might want to try pouring the metal into pre heated oil, so as to cool it down and solidify it while making less of a thermal shock (which I supposed was responsible for the brakeage, although I have absolutely no expertise in the subject).
the breakage is more caused by surface tension; in the liquid state, the metal atoms are more attracted to other metal atoms and less attracted to air molecules, hence the atoms tend to get pulled more towards the center of the molten metal, forming roughly spherical blobs. This is the same reason water beads up when you pour it.
For your final laminar flow method, I think it might work if done from high enough. In the past, bullets were made in shot towers. There, they dropped bits of molten lead from a high place. Due to turbulent flow and surface tension, the drops would form into circles before they cooled, and they would cool from air flow before hitting the ground. If you did this with laminar flow, and a thin enough stream, you might be able to get the air to cool the metal before it has a chance to form into balls.
Andy: "This drop thing caused a really dangerous splash."
Also Andy: "I'm gonna pour molten metal into a device designed to throw things in every direction at high speed"
(I'm not ragging, I kinda wanted to see that despite knowing it'd be a terrible idea and I'm glad it didn't seem to hurt anyone)
That last idea has some promise though. I think maybe putting it closer to the water might help, could give the falling metal less time to accelerate and separate?
At 10:15 you proved the old adage: "Any machine is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough!"
Near where i live is a “shot tower”, a brick tower that held a furnace at the top to melt lead, then this lead was poured through screens of various sizes and allowed to fall down inside the tower and through a shaft in the floor to a collection pool dug down into the cliff the tower is perched on. This was used to make small, uniform lead shot for use in shotguns in preindustrial times. The lead would cool as it fell through the air, and surface tension would cause the little droplets falling through the screen to take on spherical forms, with the water at the bottom to cushion the impact of them falling and landing on each other and to finish cooling them.
I think that same principle might work with your laminar flow idea, if you can provide enough of a height of relatively windless space for the molten metal to drop through that it can cool to a point that it holds its shape before it hits water.
You just got a new subscriber. If Mythbusters was still around, I have no doubt that they would have tested the plausibility of several sciences in this particular manga/anime. I'm glad to see someone else is making the effort. I wish you could have taken one more step forward, using modern machined parts to give it the best chance of working, but I understand you took it as far as you could, considering you don't have a network funding your experiments. I think the series gets the princables right, just not the practicality.
Kari reacted to it in a video!
i wanna know what will happen if you have a larger container. the cup is so freaking small a small spin will definitely throw it instantly... what about a bigger and deeper container with a bit higher holes.. just like what they did in the anime
Also in the show they are generating FAR more torque than you can get with a hand crank. Which means it spins way faster than what this video is achieving.
I was thinking the same thing. I think the problem is the depth, whether it’d work is unknown. I think with the depth and some sort of isolation of heat with the spin on it the forces would slowly raise the metal to have it drip out. The issue I see with what he was doing is basically filling the container and the metal had no where else to go but immediately out the top and the holes
All your patience goes to the wood working and metal casting but not into the actual chemistry or the final execution.
I have seen this through all of your videos. Indeed not everyone is perfectionist and but it was surely fun for you to do. And to show off.
Maybe if you pre-burned the wood, it would work as a mold
Also I think it's impressive how many things Dr. Stone DOES get right, because the author has to come up with these based on theory and definitely doesn't have time to test them
he has a scientist consultant working with him in the technicality part
@@holmesholmes.8784 Is it Boichi? The artist for Dr. Stone? Heard dude got a physics degree or something
@@imblank6161 i think dr.stone has 2 science consultan with 1 confirm to have physics degree ? I don't remember if that's Boichi or not, I just know boichi distinct artstyle and stuffs not related to science
@@imblank6161 the science consultant that i mentioned before is called Kurare, which often cited in the manga corner on some pages as Science Consultant Kurare
@@imblank6161 I checked the wiki, it seem like Boichi and Iganaki (the writer) research about the science by themselves with the help of the science consultant, so it's technically a 3 man team, Boichi wiki does said he graduate in physic so there's the degree
most people i know that work with gold wire and silver tend to cast a small thin rectangle then run it through some rollers or hammer it. then they would draw it though the dye and then move to the next one etc and eventually be able to pull it onto a roller as it gets longer. love the video. love the distraction with the candy maker.
There are some good videos on making maple sugar from maple syrup. Simply take the finished maple syrup and continue boiling it until it reaches the hard ball temp. At that point beat it (example video used electric mixer) and whip air into it. As it cools a bit it will transition from a syrup into crystallized maple sugar.
Spin extrusion is used for making rock wool so the basic concept works however it requires properly ductile material. Glass or molten rock fit that. Most metals don't. Gold, as you mentioned, is the most ductile metal and is far more likely to work than any other. As others have noted, the Dr. Stone machine had a constantly heated pot which is similar to modern cotton candy machines. That one you used of course is a bargain basement version that I have never gotten really good results out of in the first place. Considering the damage, still a better choice than spending several hundred on a commercial machine.
I have cast a few wire ingots of silver in wood moulds before.
It actually works surprisingly well, at least when you use adrill hole
it's not "safe" But it makes good ingots
I think the basic premise of this idea comes from the industrial manufacture of rock wool (which is done in basically the same way by pouring molten slag into one of these centrifuges). Rock wool was first made though by just blowing compressed air into a stream of molten material so you could try that as well.
if dropping a large piece into a casting, also make sure everything is heated up. The hard drop and interaction between cold and hot caused such a dangerous splash
There was a lot of fun and novelty when we bought our boys a cotton candy machine for Christmas one year. Well, our older boy enjoyed it but our younger one is basically a mental toddler for life with his condition, so he just kinda watches what we do. Anyway, we pretty much burned through our spinning sugar within a week and it was honestly a LOT more effort (mostly in the cleanup) than just buying cotton candy. But we also took the machine apart and put it back together so I could teach my boy a little bit about mechanics (which is what we do with most of the stuff we buy that loses its novelty pretty quickly.)
Not long ago, I caught him watching some of the "How to Make Everything" series and he was shockingly very apt at understanding a lot of the basic principles which gave me a lot of pride and satisfaction.
Keep doing what you're doing man. Even if it only teaches a handful of kids what/how/why certain things operate (and are built), then you're putting an incredible amount of value out into the world. I've been trying to be as patient of a teacher as I can, but kids with ADHD are always either 100% or 0% invested into what they're watching. But the more stuff I can teach him, the better of a foundation he'll have for understanding further concepts and the more likely he will be to find what makes him happy.
Thanks again, guys!
love how your mold was damp and it exploded. it's all most like your all ways in a rush
This is fascinating. I'm so intrigued by the gearbox you made. Also interested to see if you'll make braided wire using a similar machine to how braided rope is made from strands of twine. (I'm pretty sure I still have the schematics for the rope making machine we used in my boy scout troop if you want them)
@nesmun if he had a water-wheel it would be really good for a millstone or sawmill
@nesmun yeah the thing about a gearbox is it can make a lot of torque. There are actually a few really nice videos on the US Auto Industry channel that do a good job explaining stuff like differentials and gearboxes and transmissions
@Cian Moriarty correct yes. I used the wrong word
For the wire, you can use two rollers to squeeze a bit of metal progressively thinner, kind of like an English wheel
That works good with soft metal. You can use 2 sets of rollers mounted at right angles. It can also help to follow the rollers with a steel plate with graduated holes drilled through it. Use another set of rollers after the plate to help pull the wire through. Keep pulling it through successively smaller holes in the plate. Make sure your current hole is only slightly smaller than the current diameter of the wire. Heating the stock as you feed it into the rollers or pull it through the aperture helps too.
sweet video! i think the obvious way to make wire is just to get a blacksmith to do it. if you hammer metal into thin sheets, and then roll up those thin sheets, you can get a decent approximation of a modern wire even with only basic blacksmithing skills. very labor intensive though. could always try to make a sheetmetal roller, but ehhhh there are some safety concerns there. even modern rollers can be sketchy at times.
Draw plates and pliers are a thing, and blacksmiths can, did, and make them.
i just had the same idea....
Some thoughts on what went wrong with the experiment: The pot was too small as well as the holes, leading them to get clogged quickly. Starting with a larger pot with larger holes higher up on the sides would make the melted sugar/molten metal climb the sides and produce finer strands. Instead of pouring the metal into the pot giving it a large chance to splatter as it touches cooler metal, starting with the metal in the pot already and heating the whole thing so it's not molten all at once, resulting in thinner streams of metal heading for the holes as well.
listen man, if you wanna do a lot more mythbusters-esque things on this channel i'm 100% down for that
Cool video! It’s unfortunate you didn’t seem to do your research on cotton candy making. Using the right sugar is the most important factor, if you had just tried your setup using only the white sugar from the beets it would have likely given you much better results
For casting wire, I think the press method used to extrude corn puffs should work better. So you would put the hot-liquid metal into a container with a pipe on a side, then you use a weighted piston to push the hot metal through the pipe, and you might need to use an awl to empty the pipe after each use.
Hmm, the test at casting a cotton candy machine through pressing into it showed that manually pressing into molten metal isn't too weird of an idea...
So maybe if he gets a sealed crucible with a hole exactly fitting a pipe, and the pipe has a tiny hole in it throughout... then pushing the pipe into the crucible full of molten metal would cause pressure to rise, until it manages to push the metal through the pipes entire length. This is sort-of like his laminar flow idea, except using pressure instead of gravity, and a pipe long enough that the metal goes solid before exiting the pipe - leading to a wire coming out the end.
I imagine relying solely on gravity won't work, as the friction inside pipe likely can't be overcome by gravity once the metal turns solid.
Continuous casting, i.e. bars, tubes and wires from a crucible with a hole is a commercial process, but it's finicky, and the metal needs to be cooled so it's solid pretty much immediately as it comes out of the hole or actually just before, without actually plugging the hole. And the metal needs to come out at the correct rate too so the metal neither just all runs over the floor nor the entire crucible freezes.
Apparently a water cooled copper block is uses to start the pour, extrusion or whatever you call it.
I did hear that the Ancient Egyptians used to continuously cast wire for their chariots and bows, apparently it was pulled out under tension at a well judged rate. And either then through conventional draw plates.
But this might be a complete fiction. I find it unlikely that they had anything remotely strong enough under heat. As well the advantages just don't seem to be there.
If it's drawn anyway, and to have any strength it must, then it would seem that they would be limited to melting small batches anyway, and so they might as well cast an appropriate sized ingot and use that, either casting it to the right shape to get it through the first draw plate or more likely hot working a roughly bar shaped ingot into long and thin and pointy enough to pull it through the first plate.
I would say Dr Stone is the reason i found this channel. I dont remember when i started watching but every video ive watched has been amazing
I enjoy Andy's brutal critiques of his methods. No embellishments here. It really goes to show that the biggest innovation of the industrial revolution was a transition from manufacturing based on mastery and craft to manufacturing based on raw labor, with the craft abstracted into machine creation.
Andy: a way that ive read people used to make wire is to use a draw plate. where the holes through the plate are cone shaped so as you pull the wire through the narrowing side it stretches the wire out into a thinner strand with each pull
Don't forget to anneal the metal between holes.
@@garethbaus5471 ah yes. very important step 👍
Yeah, that was always a questionable method. If I really had to make wire in that scenario, it'd probably be easiest to have a blacksmith just hammer it thin. Gearbox looks great btw.
Definitely not, drawing wire is no easy task. I'd use a similar method to the shows but not a centrifuge, maybe a heated secondary crucible with small holes in the bottom and I'd drizzle thin wires out as long as I could, reheat and redrizzle.
If you're talking cold drawing you're crazy. Heated rods pulled thin thru progressively smaller wooden molds would be your best and easiest bet.
@@i8764theKevassitant i don't know about using wood for a mold, i would go with cob or stone. As for forging it that is total bullshit, i am talking from experience, i am a novice blacksmith. also i might have a better way, just get it red hot on one end and pull it, i have seen it work for glass firsthand, it would take a lot of practice to get it right and using a normal fire instead of a torch would make it even harder.
@tater anus I've seen wood work for what we're talking about. Stone would be too prone to snagging the softened metal. A nice hardened steel sizer would be best but if you're doing it Dr stone style, woods the best bet, you'll go thru a few molds but the wood will char and compress so for rudimentary wire itd be just fine. Polished stone would probably work.
@tater anus forget forging it though, the labor involved with just making a pound of nails is insane, can't imagine 10 ft of wire.
I think maybe it's still possible if you don't melt it all the way. Part of the reason (at least from what it seems) is that cotton candy goes stringy because it's not quite liquid when it's either cooling or when it's being poured. So if you only heat up the gold to the point where it almost is liquid but still solid, it would be pulled and thinned rather than pulled and dropped. The other problem with that though is the rapid cooling could still give it thermal shock so maybe doing it in an enclosure that isn't as hot but still a temp closer to whatever the temp going in is at. The last problem is that this is still vary far-fetched to be done in the stone age and to have that type of temp control.
More DR STONE! Thansk for likening it too I LIVE FOR THAT SHOW !❤
that wooden gear thing could probably improve your attempt at making a lathe, and/or a drill-press. just needs an extra bit to slot the end through so that it's more stable and doesn't start to wiggle. also, have you seen laminar flow tea kettles? find out how those work, and make a crucible that pours like a tea kettle out of a spout
The time-lapse of the syrup boiling down was super satisfying
wire i imagine is more like a metal is plastic scenario where smithing and stretching is the best option. interesting to see other methods attempted but not surprised molten metal has surface tension and low viscosity that makes it not want to stretch into long wires.
Maybe it's a more complex idea than is worth testing, but your laminar pour method plus a rotating bucket of sand might work. Especially if the bottom of the sand-bucket was mesh and there was air pumping through the side that doesn't get poured onto. That way warm wire sinks and cools, while fresh wire falls onto empty sand.
You could try drop forging the wire. Like how they used to make shot for guns. Get your laminar flow going high up, and instead of dropping into a bucket just let it air cool. I bet 6-10' might be enough to see results. Actual shot towers were pretty tall, but a thin wire has a higher surface area to mass ratio than a spherical bead.
The reason why the sugar makes thin wisps when spun in the centrifuge is because when caramelizing sugar, the decomposition reaction causes the formation of polymers. These polymer molecules stick to each other through covalent bonds and form long chains that can be pretty thin even when in a liquid or semi-liquid state. Metal when melted still has its metallic bonds, but as temperature increases these bonds get weaker until they finally break when the metal boils. Molten metals don't have the same affinity to form chains like polymers do, metals like tin and copper have a fairly high surface tension so they'll just bead up. I don't know how viable cotton candy centrifuge wire is, but if you poured more molten metal in your metal container and the increased the tube length it would increase the pressure pushing the metal down the tube. If you had the tube actually submerged in the water, so the molten metal is not freefalling and having time to potentially bead up, it would start cooling the metal before it hits the water creating a steam explosion. Great video as always!
That gear box frame would make a decent hand mill for grain.
1: gold (and pure gold at that) is one of the few metals with the correct surface tension, flow-solidify temperature ranges, and density to allow potential spin wiring, however, yes, you would have to be VERY exact in how you ran it and made it.
2: the sugar used for cotton candy is a huge factor in how well it works, and microadditives often massively change the effect.
3: he used a many year sun and salt dried aged non sealed plank, thus effectively fully drained of all sap, moisture, and other issues. Ideally you would bake the shaped mold in a kiln like hutch to further carbonize and dry it, but that has diminishing aid it gives. In many environments well aged wood is more reliable than common soil.
4: unlike the show, the manga went FAR more indepth into details and often hid exact numbers in the background illustrations
I wish you'd make a video about one of my favorite documentary series, James Burke's Connections, where he traces several basic inventions from their birth to our modern society of today; basically the history of invention and how they're all connected together
i think your last attempt at an continuous casting setup was not that bad. might want the water closer to the metal outlet to cool it before it has a chance to form beads.
I love dr stone and every time I watch it I always come back to this channel. Super cool to see you trying a bunch of the cool little stuff they tried. Like the wire mold. Its also always cool to see a more grounded take on the rebuilding of society.
Maybe using a technique similar to candy makers making hard candy?
As in, pour the metal in a way you can still move it while it is hot enough to still be somewhat soft but cold enough to not be liquid anymore, using two rolers to spin it and a system to pull and stretch it?
Maybe that would be a consistent way to make a thin and maleable wire?
There are examples of wire jewelry and wire sculptures dating back to about 4000 years ago, placing it in the middle to late bronze age. Gold was poured into thin plates then pounded into sheet, cut into strips and rolled into wire. Once the iron age came around, the process was updated to hammering small rods into a grooved anvil. Drawing wire was also discovered around the same time and eventually overtook both of the other methods and is still used for most wire production today.
Because gold work hardens the annealing process must have been used to prevent breakage in all of these methods. This means that copper wire was likely also being produced around this time. That said, gold has one unique attribute among materials of the time that made it a far superior option. Gold can cold weld. It is unknown if this was lost knowledge or truly not discovered until the 20th century. Since people were beating stuff with big heavy objects just to see what happens since the stone age, it's safe to assume someone had tried to get a broken piece of gold foil to go back together with the tools they were using to make it in the first place.
HTME is so awesome. I keep following because it's always going to be another day of craziness and fun. Pouring metal into a centrifuge? I would never by myself, but definitely worth watching you guys go through. (also, be careful, and I hope you're okay, Andy) HTME is one series I have to keep telling everyone to watch because of how awesome they do it.
Seems like you would need a pretty high surface tension for the centrifuge to work. Also seems like molten metal as practically no surface tension.
I think this issue is a more complicated than just surface tension. Surface tension is responsible for the beading of the metal, but when we look at things like glass or sugar, they stretch and bend long before they melt. We're dealing with a viscosity problem that may have a surface tension component. Molten sugar is fairly viscous, so it stays together as it is stretched/thrown, but most molten metals flow almost like water, so their ability to stretch (viscosity component) is fairly low, which causes them to bead (surface tension component). I'm certain there's more to the problem (fluid dynamics is complicated), but chasing this problem really isn't worth it when drawing wire works, so long as the wire is regularly annealed.
I saw a video form the British Museum talking about Saxon gold artefacts, and the curator saying that the valuble stuff wasn't the big lumps of gold - its was the braided golden wire because wire was SO MUCH WORK to make
Dr Stone is a great example of “here’s the underlying idea behind the science” show. There is quite a bit of hand waving for the practical side of their methods.
I think this is why they made the crucible oversized in the show just to make it possible to pour in the sugar without it catching on the shaft. I'd also try loading the crucible with solid sugar chunks then heating it, that might work better.
A day with a new HTME, is a good day
for the copper wire and wood mold experiment, i think the wire was kinda thick. i'd wager half as thick as hemp rope. i know we use thin and tightly wound wires for motors. but the purpose of their wire was to wrap it around some iron ingots and have them struck by lightning to create magnets. i think i saw a comment on another video that made it sound feasible, just need to be in an area where one can set it up like a lightning rod
Great video! As always, I appriciate your content and approaches.
I would appriciate it if you put links to those other videos somewhere. While I was able to locate them after a bit of digging, it took quite a while to locate
I can already tell I'm going to love this episode
Can't wait for him to reach back to a camera now! Was my most awaited video before the reset!
Always with the amazing content
I have to admire having the dedication to pour molten metal into a cotton candy machine
"worse part they started doing it 2 years before I did" oh man that made me laugh
I think the main thing you need to make it work with metal making wire is time... and that probably would need to come from distance.
A somewhat similar manufacturing method that was used in production was for lead shot. They would drop it down from the top of a tower, often over 100'.
A "Shot Tower" also used water to "catch" the molten balls at the bottom. The way they dispersed the molten lead into shot was by pouring through a copper sieve. I imagine to form wires the metal is likewise going to need more distance / time to travel through the dispersing orifice... think deep thru-holes vs holes through a thin material.
great vid man! love these kind of video's where you take concepts from show's and see if the work irl.
My understanding is that liquid metals behave more like water than a paste even at the coldest melting temperature (easy to separate, not much tensile cohesion). The cotton candy machine melts the sugar as it spins, so the sugar is 'just' turning to a liquid at the point it gets flung out and liquid sugar wants to stay together at that point. The Dr. Stone method may be 'possible', but the number of variables needed to make it work are impractical (it has to go from 'barely liquid' to 'solid' in a fraction of a second and at a speed such that it does not separate from itself in that time frame). Making rods and drawing those down using presses to make wire would be more feasible I think. Still, the whole process in the show was very entertaining.
There are elements of this that I think work in principle, but are more difficult to achieve in practice. In order to make a wire, you need to have no breaks in the flow, which means you need the reservoir to be full at all times with zero air pockets, such that there's a constant unbroken stream of gold coming out of the nozzles. Of course that's a lot easier to achieve with water than rapidly-cooling metal.
Try using soapstone for making your molds out of. I have seen it used and works quite well.
Started with a cotton candy machine, ended up with a drill press 😂
You have improved your content so much over the years. Great job!!
He had continuous heat on the bowl, couldn’t that effect it greatly?
YOOO I thought I was tripping when I saw Dr. Stone in the title. I'm a big fan of that anime because I love survival and science stuff.
I’m surprised you haven’t made a Dr. Stone playlist yet
In a way, Senku is the perfect representative of modern science.
All theory, no actual practice. But Senku can fudge it by being a fictional character.
0r so you personaly individually subjectively perceive
that flaming cotton candy machine was wild ! hehe
Actually making metal wire with the old method in the 1800's included taking a round piece of a ductile metal and drawing (pulling) it through a tool called a drawing or wire die and gradually decreasing the diameter of said metal until you end with the wire you need. This process would also make the metal stretch longer and longer. That's why at some point, two roller bars mounted on stands are placed at either end to help hold the wire during the process.
For the board method to be more plausible i would say to bake the top of the board and get a good char after carving. As well as carve deeper channels into the wood. Ideally this would take as much moister out of the surface as possible.
HTFE = How To Fail Everything?
I joke, love the channel!
Hm.
Nice idea. If you are serious about this, you really need to take more time on each step to improve the quality. There's also the matter of scale and having extra hands.
1. Casting the bowl. The standard sand casting method would be to have a fill hole or two and poke it in a few places for the gas to escape as the metal filled the sides. If you have enough molten metal and the mold is warm, the metal would take several minutes to solidify. Adding the top afterward is the typical mistake kids would do but, leave an overflow spout and lower it slowly, and the compression would make the resulting bowl stronger.
2. Bowl size and shape: The extrusion bowl for the candy series looked like it could hold at least a gallon of liquid and the walls were at least 1/4 inch thick. When they took it out of the mold,it looked like it had 1/2 that volume and thicker walls. That means it can hold a larger mass and hold the heat longer than the one you were using, resulting a more consistent and controllable flow. Extrusion tubes could have been formed with a stone spike and a wooden hammer using techniques like repousse.
3. Turning method: Using the bowl and the converted shield as free-spinning flywheels, thew were able to get things turning much faster by striking the edge as fast as they could swing their arm on the cotton candy stage than you could with just a crank. It helps that there was another person to put in the ingredients. Using pull cords and ratcheting gears they were able to take that to another level for the gold extrusion phase. 80-100+ lbs of teenager throwing their weight into it can produce more torque than most electric hand drills. Naturally, it's important for the framework to be well anchored.
4. Preheating the bowl: For the sugar and the gold, the extrusion bowl needs to be constantly heated to keep the material liquid.
5. Multiple prototypes: The cartoon version doesn't show the prototyping process with trial and error, analysing failed attempts and making improvements. The manga version does sometimes show the graveyard of failed projects.
To make wire, you can make a series of rollers with grooves that decrease in size as it is getting pulled, there could be an issue with mainatining constant heat and a consistent amount of force to "pull" it
I think you can turn that cotton candy machine into a decent drill press with some redesigning and some modification.
Additionally, maybe try pouring the metal wire in sand in a vertical mold? I don’t know anything in that field so I don’t know if that’s a plausible idea, but like have a basic length standing mold and find a thin object to begin with like the thinnest but longest twig you can find. Poking a hole in the mold and then pouring as you did when they were horizontal??
I would say carry on with that drop process.
At a greater height it should form a skin before quenching.
Viscosity is temperature dependant and your aperture will vary by material.
You may even consider a pour to get a super fine drop to draw.
You know, they probably got a lot of the gold in the show from the ruins of the old world. Since gold doesn't corrode in the way other materials do, it's possible a ton of it was available by scavenging what used to be computer parts.
They probably simply picked up gold ingots from a bank or gold jewelry from a store
@@DesignThinkerer all of that gold was probably buried, the only recognizable landmark they found was a bronze statue because bronze is more resistant to corrosion and poisons the plant life that grows around it, otherwise no buildings or processed materials were found.
best way to make wire is probably the way wire is thinned out by goldsmiths today. they use molds that have cone shaped holes which they pull the wire through to bring it down to diameter. this give the wire extra lenght in the process as well which helps
Speaking of William Osman, with the help of the backyard scientist, he melted lava rocks and poured them into a cotton candy machine, successfully making some form of rock wool. I doubt you could repeat this with through hand turned wooden tools, but perhaps you could repeat it with some alloys?
This video reminds me a lot of William Osman where in one video they tried to put molten metal into a cotton candy machine which failed as with your video
the explaination for it is that metal is just so heavy and viscous that it cant really form delicate strings and would turn into blobs and fling itself to the nearest wall
You never dissapoint!
if i could make a suggestion for the wire (as someone who has made silver wire) try casting a long ingot and pull it through a draw plate (easy to make)
Ya cooling it rapidly after coming out and getting an even consistent flow would be very important for making a nice wire.
That new Dr Stone gear system might be able to work with the Lathe, Maybe give that a try?
casting wire has metal's surface tension and low viscosity working against it, as metal will turn to droplets far too quickly, on the other hand, you could plastizise the metal (heat it until it becomes soft) and then spin it at high speed by holding one end to a weight, won't be perfect but should stretch the metal enough (try it with alloys that soften, pure metals will melt quickly)
it's always nice to see semi-realistic fiction getting fact checked.
jujj
its like a second fact check. the manga used science consultants
everything shown was....theoretically possible. throw in a large pinch of anime suspension of disbelief and it really isn't that bad. Just because HTME can't do it doesn't mean no one can do it, most of his creations are super jank lol
@@ExarchGaming my main problem is that most of the inventions are not a good way to do the thing they're designed to. It would be much easier for a blacksmith to make small chunks of sheet metal and then form them into the bowl shape. And you don't have to be a skilled blacksmith for this. You just need to have a hammer and a hot fire. Then you have to consider that gears are a bad way of increasing speed for that. Pulleys are smoother and easier to build, plus you could fit more of them for a better gear ratio. Plus it's just not physically possible to make wires by slinging molten metal like that. The surface tension of the metal is way too high and it can only come out as droplets. You could just make rollers to thin out the metal and then draw it out. If you want to automate the process, you could use metal gears to pull the metal through. It feels like they're writing a character that's meant to be super smart, but because they don't have a good understanding of what they're writing about, it comes across as pretentious. Like the main character thinks he's so smart but his machines are all poorly designed and only work because plot
The way Dr stone does it is just bad, everything they do doesn't feel like a major accomplishment and it's feels like "we invented this cool thing in seconds and now we're on to making something else" and I feel the way they do the making of things with what seems to be zero effort gets rid of the excitement of accomplishing their goal. It makes such a cool idea so mundane and uninteresting
Just realized how much I like watching wood burning time lapses.
The method of dropping molten metal into a cup and allow it to drip was the basic method for making shot for shotguns in shot towers. The molten lead dropped into pools of water over a greater height to create spheres.
Molten metals have pretty high surface tension, so streams always try to break up into droplets.