Matching speakers to amplifiers
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- Опубликовано: 7 мар 2019
- Systems are all about synergy. With the sad state of affairs where dealers are concerned, it's hard to get help finding and matching speakers to power amplifiers. If you want to learn more, grab a copy of Paul's new book, The Audiophile's Guide. www.amazon.com/Audiophiles-Gu....
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Hey There Paul. I hope this finds you Well and reasonably Happy. I just want to take a second here to Thank You for all that you do, for so many. You and your Channel are greatly appreciated. The knowledge that you impart to us all is nothing short of Miraculous and Awesome. I often sit here, watching one of your videos, while wishful thinking & Drooling at the equipment that I have only dreamed about. I envy you, in that you are able to make a living while doing things that you Love. (every man's goal in Life) It must be wonderful to Live your Life in an Audiophile's Heaven. Good for you. Please continue doing what you do... this world is a better place with you in it. Thank You again Paul and until our paths cross again... Keep Smiling...
Great video as always. I did just that when I purchased my Mirage M1's back in 92. Just to let you know going to your facility to listen to Listening room 1 is on my bucket list. A little hike from Michigan, but hope to do it in the next year or so.
I see that emotiva bookshelf speaker up there 😎. Knowing you have one at your desk makes me wanna get one too. Was looking for a new bookshelf and those speakers seem to be the ones.
To help one could identify their preferred type of music to enjoy, and what they are looking for in a system (warm and musical/dynamic or resolving & flat/analytical) as well to limit the types of speakers, amps, preamps....ect. Also the listening space/size you have available will play into this calculation as well.
Fair assumption that I am by no means alone in that I have a PS Audio chain, DSD/PWT/M700s and looking to replace the speakers and possibly add the BHK Pre amp. Matching the M700s is my task, and not buying more speaker than necessary is key. Short list is GE Triton One's, Maggie 3.7i, and Kef Reference One. Three different sound signatures. Replacing B&W Matrix 801 series III in a 15x20 room. Jazz, Classical, opera genres, no TV. Obviously falling into the 2nd category, matching the M700 mono's may not be ideal,.. but it sure is fun, ;) Love to hear from anyone who may know a great M700 match? And,, Hey thanks Paul, loved your 72 Uriah Heep interview!! Followed Heep and Queen on tour 72-74 rocked sooo hard, now a PSA fan cause you guys Rock!
Paul, how is the atmosphere difference in Colorado as apposed to Illinois affect a speakers ability to move vibrations through the thicker or thinner air?
Notwithstanding the necessarily quite high price-point of much of PS Audio's excellent equipment, Mr McGowan seems down-to-earth in his philosophy and always offers realistic advice. BTW, I look forward to the biography!
@William Evans, he never pushes his product on people. Very unbiased guy.
Here in the UK, I have a Cyrus Lyric 'single-box' unit (due to cost and space limitations) with Monitor Bronze speakers, all yet to be set up. Apparently, the Lyric has an ' automated output impedance adjustment system (SID)'. Any views on this type of integrated circuitry? Many thanks!
Which big Wilson speaker (or other) matched Lamm ML 2.2 amp. (18w per ch. ) ?????
Determine the efficiency of your speakers. Then buy an amp that will power the speakers to the sound pressure level you want. So if you find a pair of speakers that are rated at 90 db per watt at one meter, and you want 110 db at the loudest, you have to keep in mind that for every 3db increase of sound pressure you have to voluble the output power of the amp. So to go from 93 to 96 db, you have to go from one watt to 2 watts. Then to get from 93 to 96 watts you need to go to a 4 watt amp. From 96 to 99 db, you need an 8 watt amp, then from 99 to 103 db your amp must put out a 16 watt amp. From 103 to 106 watt your at 32 watts and finally to get to your target of 110 db, your close at 109 db at 64 watts. Now, to prevent you from getting into clipping and Distortion you'll probably want to got to a 100 watt amp to give you some headroom, but be sure you speakers are capable of handling 100 watts. If they can handle 120 watts I would give myself even more head room.
Now what if your speakers were only rated at 85 db per watt?well, then you'll have to use an even bigger amp! For every 3 db in volume, which our ears perceive as twice as loud as the previous wattage, you have to double the wattage. So, my answer would be to buy the very best speakers you can first and pay attention to their efficiency. Then figure out the wattage you need making sure that your speakers can handle the wattage, because wattage equals heat, and were not building a space heater here! Then buy the cleanest amp you can find at the wattage your need. Good luck!p
If it was 90 db at one watt then the db its rated at would start at one watt making it 90 db at one watt and then 93 at two, and so forth. I don't think it starts at zero as the name implies at one.
Why would the target be 110 db, is there any significance with that particular number?
Another question I had was when you say "cleanest amp you can find" what exactly do you mean by "Cleanest", the THD level?
The Gold Coast has fabulous golden sandy beaches as far as the eye can see.
I have an old system. Instead of trying to mix and match it with other speakers, I started from scratch with new speakers and a 'new' refurbished 1990s amplifier. The old system is kept as it is as secondary system.
How can I find out that the phase input of the device is connected to phase of the wall outlet? The wall outlet is symmetrical so devices can be connected both ways. Please help me with this.
is a 145 wpc receiver to 85w speakers at 6 ohms healthy? Please help
I have a set of Klipsch KG4s paired with an Onkyo TX-2500 MKII. I always thought you paired watts, that is you want to push your speakers but not blow them.
Either way, my pairing has served me well.
Chris - Give Geoff at Toma Audio (Tweed Heads) a call/visit. The last 'old school' dealer on the coast - OK 600m over the border 😜. Experience in buckets.
Paul's right (imo) - Speakers first ... unless you know you're after 'tubes'. Brighter speakers - warmer amp. Less efficient speakers - more powerful amp.
Just noticed the Grado SR325 and Beyerdynamic Headphones at the back.
Hey so I'm looking at a set of 4 75watt 6ohm speakers to use as satellites. The avr I'm looking at says it puts out 145watts per channel with speaker impedance 6-16ohms. Will this be to much for those speakers? I'm a complete novice when it comes to this stuff so any help would be appreciated. I'm assuming the avr will only push as much power to the speakers as they require and won't be pushing a full 145watts to 75watt speakers right?? Am I Gona blow myself up?
Agree on the synergy. There are some components that just don't like each other.
That is true.
Unlike solid state amps, a tube amp will alter the frequency response of a speaker due to interactions. IE you can't look at the frequency response of the amp and the speaker separately and guess the response when they are used together. Sometimes the amp flatters the speaker and sometimes not. Stereo Review tested a bunch of amps driving a common set of speakers and showed the resulting, very different, response curves when the tube amps were used. This was many years ago.
A couple other companies that do speakers plus amps are Meridian and Paradigm (Anthem)...
Matching Amps to speakers, like one of your recent videos you recommended Klipsch for Rock and Metal music, being they are a bit bright I would look for a warm amp to roll them off a bit, like an older Marantz 2 channel that you can bi-amp so to bring up the bottom end a bit more.
I have bose 4.2 series 2 speaker 75w rms 8omh . Plz tell me the compitable amplifier watt.?
Paul could you let us know the status on the book
I got two 12in 16ohms speakers in one cabinet and 600 watt amp 4 ohms how do I make it work I'm lost on this
I'm planning to buy 4 horn speakers 300watts 16 ohms each & 1 existing Behringer EP1500 amplifier 450watts 4 ohms output. Do I need to change the horn speaker wattage? Kindly help me PS Audio to design a good outdoor sound system with my EP1500 amp. Thanks 😊.
You’ve got that Charles Kuralt vocal vibe! 😁
I would love to hear your sprout with my elac B 6.2
When I bought my Pioneer 3-way 12" ported speakers (which still sound good after 40 years), the salesman on the floor kept turning the bass and treble way up to exaggerate the bass and treble, which gives some people the illusion that the speakers sound better then they actually do. I set the controls to flat response at a moderate level, and he turned up the controls again. I told him the if I couldn't listen to them at flat response, I would leave, He backed off and let me listen. They sounded very clear and open to me, without perceptual dips or peaks. I liked the sound very much, and bought them. To this day, I will use a little extra bass and a hint of treble when I am listening at low levels (my receiver doesn't have a Loudness control). When I turn them up, I set the bass and table back to flat. The speakers are quite efficient, and at 100 watts per channel RMS into 8 ohms from my receiver, I have more than enough power for the speakers (which are rated at 8 ohms). It's inexpensive, but sounds good and has a very clear high-end, and if I want to do critical listening, I use 250 0hm semi-sealed headphones powered by either my guitar pedal board, or off my small mixer. Living in a fairly small condo unit, I don't turn the speakers up very loud, I'm looking at getting a new DAC/headphone amp. I have one, but I want one that sounds good but is small. The DAC/headphone amp I have is full-size for a power amp to sit on top of it, and running it out of the USB ports on my old PC, the jitter was horrible. I have a new, large iMac, and I'm hoping for a better sound with a smaller DAC/headphone amp. The old DAC is really too large for the amount of space I have.
40 years? That’s wild. Never had them re-capped, or anything?
Nice videos im a new subscriber. I have a question for you. What are the different dispersion characteristics of different size woofers such as 8, 10, 12, 15, 18, inch woofers. What makes them disperse sound the way they do and is there any way to change the dispersion pattern with out changing the woofer size?
the smaller the woofer the higher you can x-over without beaming problems . A 12 inch can be used up to 300 Hz , some 8 inches can go up to 1 kHz.
A good hi-fi shop or company I suppose, Should be able to lend you an amplifier or other electronic equipment for a short period of time to match with your speakers, it comes under the industry standard they signed up to forgotten the name of it anybody can remind me, the shop is signed up to this body they will lend you equipment for a period of a couple of weeks or so.
If you hear a set of speakers that you really enjoy and feel that would work well in your room but couldn't afford to purchase a new amp at the same time, I would ask the dealer if he would let you bring your current amp to his showroom for a listen. This way you could hear if you would enjoy the new speakers with your current amp while you save up for the ideal amp you eventually would like to pair with them.
best
I'd also like to add imho it would be better to do one upgrade at a time. Give yourself the time to live with and appreciate the upgrade and learn its virtues and possibly flaws . In this particular case of a speaker amp combo waiting on the amp would be wise. You'll gain insight on what amps would be a better match for the virtues that's most important to you. I've learned that even at most astronomical expensive prices points there's going to be trade-offs. One component's performance in a certain area of sound reproduction may be bested from a competitors in a similar price range and vise versa .
Enjoy the journey
Completely agree, ideally you will find a dealer like the one I frequently use which allows you to actually bring the speakers home and try them yourself for a week. If you don't like them there is a no-questions-asked return policy
Super idea! Especially great if your amps are lightweight class D models that can be carried into the dealer under one arm...😎
I brought my amp and speakers, because I knew the listening room at the dealer would be different. I was looking for new speakers because the ones I had, didn't really work well in my room. Before I went in, I had preselected a bunch of speakers in my budget range so they could have them ready in the listening room. Funny thing, as I was A/B testing new speakers with my own, I got increasingly impressed with how my speakers performed. I was both proud of my speakers and frustrated at the same time!
I toted all my kit to a HiFi store and did that very thing. At the time, the B&W 803s were the speakers I longed for, but I really wasn't sure they would work with my amplifier. I had a NAD C 370 at the time, which was the best amplifier I could afford while I was at college. Hooked it up, tried them out a d it sounded okay...but only okay. I couldn't have lived with it for long as those speakers need some serious horsepower to run them. I would never have known that if I couldn't listen to them first. I ended up not changing my speakers as I knew I couldn't afford both the speakers and the amplifiers.
Kii Audio 3 active speakers have built in amps and DAC's . Solves the problem and they sound great
"Built In" "great" 🙄
If you can afford them. Otherwise buy KEF LS50 wireless because the UniQ drivers are the best.
qwerty22 see Genelec, Neumann, Adam (seen on the shelf in this video. All have built in amps and are some of the finest speakers you can buy. In fact, active speakers are undoubtedly the future of home audio
@@mark22732 clearly you haven't heard of the kii 3s
Good explanation.
Currentl building a system from the ground up. Especially hard right now with the limited ability to go listen to anything due to the shutdowns. I am picking up some Monitor Audio Silver 300s from a local dealer this weekend. They are display models that only have 10 hrs on them and Im getting a $1k discount on them. Starting with speakers and then going to buy an integrated amplifier online from a company that has a 30 day trial period. Will be a lot easier to audition amplifiers and return them if needed rather than the speakers. Also I don’t really trust any shipping company with such a large, heavy, and expensive package like speakers right now.
Maybe we can try a different approach: first amplifier, and than everything else. A good amplifier is always a good amplifier (powerful and that does not change the sound characteristics, like any PS Audio or...), a relatively simple device but so important, as well as a good engine in the car - it will move and drive almost any speakers in almost any (normal) space. Through the time tastes and the sound characteristics of the audible and the spaces where we are listening change, but a good engine is always a good engine, it will move and drive any upgrade. In this naive and simple comparison, the speakers are wheels and tires, and turntables, cd players, dacs etc. are steering and control system... And who didn't change the speakers, players, cartridges, tastes, spaces etc. (and least we've changed the amplifiers) during all these years?
Your idea is good, as long as the speakers on your wish list are eay to drive. Keep in mind that there are quite a few loudspeakers, particularly electrostatics, full range ribbons, Maggies and dynamic-driver speakers with especially complex crossovers that will raise hell with even some of the highest quality amplifiers. As long as you steer clear of the more difficult to drive speakers, you won't have a problem. The only power amp I have ever encountered that was utterly unaffected by any speaker load tossed at it was the Sanders sMagtech solid state model made by the same company that makes Sanders electrostatic loudspeakers. Others that are similarly bulletproof that I've spent any time with are the Parasound Halo JC1, Boulders, Constellation and upper models from Pass Labs and Rowland Research. However, of those, only the Sanders and Parasound amps cost less than $10K while the more expensive models can set you back $45K to $300K+! However if you have speakers you love that are relatively easy to drive, there are amps that can rival the performance of many of those that are priced stratospherically. PS Audio's Stellars and Odyssey Audio Stratos models come to mind, though the Stellars are far, far more energy efficient, weigh les and take up far less space than the Odysseys.
The bitch of it is, now that I can get the good stuff , my hearing is going bad. Should have turned the volume down sooner.
In short: Speakers first and trial and error with the amplifier?
the gold coast in australia is were you see photos of all the incredible beaches, tanned woman and bronzed men, its the miami of australia
pretty much
Nubert does produce everything you need for youre system :D
Good stuff
Hello Paul,
Thanks for your explanation. But what about the idea of "Garbage In Garbage Out":
If your source is bad, the only thing amp and speakers do is showing the crap the front end spits out. So my idea is that the source is very (maybe the most) important.
Furthermore a speaker is not just a resistor that absorbs power. An amp has to CONTROL a speaker, dealing with strange courses in impedance, resistance, capacitance of the speaker.
When i upgraded my amp from a Naim NAP 90 to a NAP180 (driving EPOS ES14s) the bass got tighter, placing got better, sound got clearer.
So i wonder how my perception relates to your philosophy.
Source is probably the easiest and cheapest place to start. Good network attached storage can be quite inexpensive. Paired up with an affordable and quality DAC from something from Schiit, and you can focus safely on amp and speakers.
Linn has been selling systems for years, but not cheap.
This is a problem for that old dinosaur known as the passive loudspeaker with analogue crossovers that come after any electronics or amplification. I can't imagine anyone doing passive loudspeakers in 2019 in light of what is available and what is coming.
Speakers ! I inherited a mint pair of Yamaha NS 1000 monitors..
In theory, the best amp for your speakers is the same amp, which was used for fine tuning by the manufacturer.
They don't always make that information available though.
Your suggestion would be a very practical choice but not the best choice. The manufacturer is most likely using a very reliable amplifier but not the best amplifier.
thanks
If you'd like to learn how to Actually Match speakers to amps look at some of the Uncle Doug videos for one. He goes into the math of impudence matching with tube amps instead of... "Everything's Magic" and "Synergistic amaze balls speakers"
I think that nowadays , it is way easier to buy HiFi equipment than years ago . Before I make a purchase, I do a long research online , especially from the users and factories specifications . Not from the sells persons , those are the very last I would listen to !
Just buy an old times, one piece stereo system that were so popular in the old days.
Classe...defunct?
Nope. New owners and a total reboot. Classe' should have something showing at Axpona and Munich High-End.
Yamaha make very expensive speakers and electronics, but no reviewers ever seem to mention or recommend them! Why is that?
YAMAHA NS-5000 mmmmm I would love to have a pair, but to expensive for me.
I dont know why, Yamaha is a strange brand, there is virtually no marketing. I have always had Yamaha stage piano's and they would just come up with a new model after a few years without ANY advertisement or market buzz. Once I almost bought one, and was glad I didnt because two weeks later the new model was out:) Not comparable, but look at Bose immensely popular, but all due to clever marketing.
Yamaha it is the one of the best companies . They are so successful , that no need " Fake Advertisements " for them , like for example BOSE is doing it .
@@ryanray6215 yes so true!
Because they're not a boutique brand. However, those of us who are familiar with their equipment are already well aware of their reputation... 😎
I was just thinking of Yamaha. No reviewer mentions them because Yamaha does not send away free stuff, does not pay reviewers to go to exotic places and most important and common does not buy advertising space in hifi magazines. Meanwhile I am in heaven when I listen to a sacd trough my Yamaha cd-s2000 and Yamaha a-s 1000.
PMC makes amps and Speakers.
An analogy: to match your roads, seasons, and driving skills, would you choose to buy your Maserati or Lincoln with a Ford F-150 or a Honda Odyssey engine and drive train? How about a Camry engine to drive your existing Bentley? Or, more musically, how about a turbine engine blower for your pipe organ? Steel or aluminum strings on your Steinway? Choices are freedoms that can become nightmares.
Like it or not, reproducers are partly (largely?) musical instruments. Electronics can be made so customizable to reproducers that a fairly strict limit of electronics and reproducers might well be installed by the same manufacturer -- and built in. "Would you like your Heresy III with 100, 200, or 500 watts?" Or, "We offer our Magnepans with maximum SPLs @ 6 feet of 96, 102, 108, or 114 dB. Which would you like?
Just give us 0.5 volt RMS at 600 Ohms.
500W on a Heresy! - like a train engine on a Steinway 😁.
Wouldn‘t active speakers be the perfect solution?
Yep. ATC all day long for me
You hear great sound at the store, it would be foolish to buy the amp first. You buy the speakers that were producing that sound first and foremost.
how can you hear an amplifier if you change out the speakers? you can't, you're hearing the difference in speakers first. The only way to hear an amplifier is if you only swap out the amp in the system and A/B the different amps in the same system. only then will you understand the subtleties the amps are creating.
Sure once you have a handle on the amp you like then you can swap out the speakers to find the best match to your personal tastes.
5:12 is the reason for my comment.
Sort of like the concept of measuring Ferrari engine power on a Miata transmission,your missing the capabilities of the engine.
I know I am going to get a lot of shit for this. One way to narrow down your search for audio gear is to listen to systems on/through youtube. Yeah, I know you are listening to your computer speakers, the crappy microphone used to record the music, and then the youtube compression. However you can hear differences in different systems. If you use it wisely and sparingly, youtube videos can help you narrow down your search.
You can discern a surprising amount from YT. There is a video of a guy comparing several different recording methods of Dark Side of the Moon (creators name is something about analog). I was very surprised how easy it was to hear the differences between most of the recordings.
So if you find a pair of speakers you like the sound of, why not take note of what's driving them ?
why would you ignore the rest of the system if you like what you hear, and go on a wild goose chase looking for something else, after all, the speakers you may not like powered by something other I say.
Cambridge audio make amps dacs and speakers I think CD players to and there pretty good
you have speakers from them?
Walküre yes I have a 7.1 surround system and all the speakers are Cambridge 4 s70 tower speakers a Center and 2 smaller book shelf Ons set high up. The s70s are very good clean sound good top end base and imaging is very good the centre speaker handles vocals with ease and the book shelf ones yes the same drive units as the s70s
They also make subs but don’t have one of them I have been very happy with them and use them all the time they are only available second hand now as far as I know except to pay about £100 ish plus postage (ps they were what Hifi 5star ratted ) hope this has been helpful to you all the best yours Ian
My Name look at the s70flor speakers I’ve had my speakers about 6 years now with no problems and I give them some welly carnt understand why the 60s got slated but there you go
Walküre hi just looked at the review that was listed on hear it’s only one persons review
My Name it seems that way that’s the Morden through away world we live in. But without being big headed I could fix them yours Ian
Although i proudly own a number of fantastic PS Audio products and enjoy this channel, as an Australian, I cant help but cringe at this example of stereotypical geographic ignorance that Americans so often have for countries outside the USA.
You may wish to chance a visit one day, who knows, you might find some gold.
@Larry Niles you're welcome.
Yeah i lived in Sheboygan for a couple of years. Do you know where Traralgon is?
This reminds me of when I used to go “clubbing” quite often. One time, I went up to the stage after the show and said, “Let me guess. Pioneer mixer, QSC amps, and Yamaha speakers”. They replied, “How did you know?!” I told them, “I can hear the combination and it’s always made my favorite sound at a concert.” It may not be HiFi audiophile gear, but I can say from experience as a listener, the synergy is ABSOLUTELY important. It was clear to me when something was “off”. Although, it sounded like I’m the only one in that man’s career who’s appreciated the difference. 😂🎉
Middleclass Westeners have too much money to throw away
The main problem is ignorance of what real music sounds like.
I would add Pioneer to that list. They make everything. You can get Pioneer avr, amp, speakers, etc. Pioneer has gone downhill though.
No today you walk into a Nebraska finiture mart the guy plays a mactosh reciver and put on some nasty sounding metal dome tweeter speakers that sound like they are drying then turns it up like it sounds good. Then as your ears are bleeding you beg him to turn it down.
Really he should be selling printer paper, becuse he has no concept of home audio.
True story.
I walked out. Ive seen this at best buy too.
If you want audiophile equipment go to a knowledgeable home audio dealer who has the better brands and ab the speakers untill you hear something you like take your own music with you. Something you know.
I found Paul’s answer very uncomfortable and specifically tailored to those audiophiles you like constantly experimenting with different combinations of audio equipment.
Plus, isn’t matching a “dry” loudspeaker with a “luscious” tube amplifier, like trying to solve a product’s shortcoming with another’s product’s shortcoming?
i think his answer was honest and showed his experience. sometimes people buy things and never get them to sound as good as in the store. from my experience it's very difficult to match audio gear even headphones to a headphone amp. if you are serious about the tone you like you can't avoid comparing. you can't ignore acoustics in the room etc
No - it's about marrying the qualities of each.
Yes, so true, speakers first!
If you have 5K to spend on a system, buy speakers that cost 2.5K a piece:) With this strategy you end up with the best possible system ever. Then skip a holiday, dont go out too eat, wait a few years with trading in your car and spend that money on an amp, cables and a dac:)
My advice go listen to many sets of speakers to find what's best for you. Amps influence on the sound is minute compared to speakers any decent amp will do the job!
Ta Ta Bye Bye 🤣😂😄
7 minutes of saying nothing.
Thank you !
A marriage