Divination, Then and Now
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- Опубликовано: 13 июл 2023
- Trying out a recent Icelandic divination method, with thoughts on what we know (and how) about ancient and medieval fortune-telling practices in Scandinavia.
Jackson Crawford, Ph.D.: Sharing real expertise in Norse language and myth with people hungry to learn, free of both ivory tower elitism and the agendas of self-appointed gurus. Visit jacksonwcrawford.com/ (includes bio and linked list of all videos).
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For those interested, there is a small soothsaying museum (Spákonuhof) in Skagaströnd where you can see bones like this, and hear a good storyteller tell the story of Þórdís.
It's sweet that you showed respect for it even though you don't believe. It speaks well of you.
I think it was respect for the gift giver and keeping his word.
Yes, I too think we should all defer to any crazy idea anyone comes up with.
In fact, let's start with _this __-crazy-__ good idea itself!_ Respect my demand, even if you don't believe, _or be non-sweet forever!_
Those are sheep knuckle bones. They have been used as dice since Sumeria, at least. They're the basis for the phrase "roll the bones".
A great Rush album, too. Poignant lyrics strangely related.
Don't believe those old bones Dr. Crawford, you WILL win the annual bingo tournament, we believe in you
12:41 don't know why I haven't made the connection before - there's a northern Norwegian divination that used to be done for newborn children. It's mostly considered a Sami or Finnish custom now, so maybe that's why the penny didn't drop.
Three twigs - one with no bark, one burnt and one carved with three notches were placed in a bowl of the special porridge that's traditionally the mother's first meal after the birth - still called norn-porridge some places. If one of them disappears overnight, that's interpreted as diagnostic for the child's future. The remaining twigs were sometimes made into a protective amulet and placed in the cradle.
So "certain marks" could indeed be as simple as just cutting a notch or charring a bit of a stick - no need to get fancy :)
That’s fascinating! What an interesting tradition.
Funny what you said about coming up with your own divination method! Mine is like this: I say to the person next to me "When I say 'go' you tell me 'yes' or 'no', don't think about it, just say the one that comes first to your mind"; then I think about the question and, when I say "go", I get the answer to it. I know it's silly, but it helps me put things into perspective.
Sounds similar to an ancient Greek kledon. You stop up your ears with wax, pray to Hermes, ask your question, and then then walk into a crowded marketplace. You take the wax out, and the first scrap of conversation you overhear is your answer. 😊
And that's exactly the point of divination.
Where we can't come up with a good reasoning for either one or the other decision, we are forced to guess.
But we don't want to guess, we want some hint that it is the right decision.
So thus we look for signs to lead us. We'd rather rely upon something than nothing, even if that something is literally throwing dice.
@@faramund9865 There's throwing the dice when the options are equally valid, and then there's throwing the dice when the alternatives are not. The latter was explored in Luke Rhinehart's novel "The Dice Man."
Thanks for stopping in today Dr. Crawford
His question was, "Will One Direction get back together?"
I'd think these types of videos should be seen as a sort of culture observance. Rare these videos are and with authentic research and real world experience! Please make more! Would love to see more cultural stuff.
A pretty good source for divination in the medieval period is witchcraft court cases. In the Netherlands you can sometimes find witness testimony concerning different forms of medieval mysticism, often concerning divination, among the court documents.
You have to be careful with those, though, because for different reasons they might be inaccurate, either through misunderstanding or through flat out lies. I will say it's best to look at the original documents, or at least translated transcriptions side by side with the originals (allowing scholars to translate them to check for accuracy). Before the Internet I read too many books by people claiming to have solved these puzzles, and after the Internet I've read too many blogs by people claiming to have solved these puzzles, only to stumble in the search for their claimed original sources. But having said all that, your suggestion is worth a follow-up for anyone who's interested.
@@kimfleury oh for sure! I should probably specify that these are valuable and interesting sources from a scholarly perspective. These documents are (presumably) not written by people who practice divination themselves and within the context of the practices being treated as alleged criminal acts.
So one should tread lightly, and experience in source criticism is important.
Another good source for research along these lines, are examples of recordings of Church prohibitions against various things that the people were doing, often along with the proper penance for doing so. Because the Church would not be prohibiting something specific that the people were not doing and creating punishments for it.
For example, you might find Church records of some bishop writing to his priests "This pagan stuff has to stop! When one of the peasants in your Parish makes offerings to the river, make them fast on bread and water 3 days and make them say 20 Hail Mary's" etc
This tells us, that enough people were making offerings to the river, that the Bishop had to say something....
This was very interesting! For you anatomical knowledge mammals usually don't have one knee bone, since the knee is a joint. They have a bone of the thigh, usually 2 in the lower leg and together with the patella (kneecap) they make up the joint. A knee joint will either have long bones attatched, or be cut/broken. These indeed look like hand/feet bones, and I've been told that these have a long use in history. They look like human toe and finger bones, but more compact.
And from the skeptical pagan side: it's common to use divination as a way to bring your own subconcious to the surface. So if you ask a tarot question, your stream of conciousness can help bring out what you want to do. Or, if you are disappointed in the answer of a yes/no question: you know what you want to do. Hope this helps you with your question :)
That's something I did not expect to see from your channel! Pretty interesting, still, and definitely worth documenting and preserving in multiple sources, including this.
I really appreciate the realism. I love these little finds and tidbits.
What a cool gift. Maybe it needs to be calibrated for Colorado somehow to get a mare precise response.
I think those are talus (or ankle) bones, aka astragali, used in "astragalomancy," though when I asked the fortune telling device of my own people if that was right, it said "Ask again later."
If the markings in Germania were runes though, wouldn’t Tacitus be able to identify it as some kind of alphabet since the Roman’s alphabet appeared very similar the Germanic ones?
Did the guy who said your hat was a prop never meet a cowboy or someone from the cowboy culture before? A prop hat would not look natural on you, your cowboy hat fits you very well.
I'm a skeptic on all things mystic IRL (I'm fine with mysticism/magic in fiction/fantasy. That can be a lot of fun.), but I think looking at mystical items from the past is interesting as a historical pursuit. It's another way to learn about how the people see themselves and the world around them.
You definitely kept your promise to keep the video scholarly.
Wouldn't a hat be considered costume, anyway? Weird.
Thanks for this video. I am currently researching divination methods for a book I'm writing and probably would have never noticed this in the mounds of stuff I have to plow through. I haven't even gotten to European methods yet.
This is a book I would love to read. Humans are so very interesting creatures.
I want to know more about this book! How do I get notified when it comes out?
Are you going to cover augury?
The question was: "does this stuff work?".
I always thought you can ask whatever you like, but by not taking it lightly, the meaning is to sincerely believe/trust and not test the oracle.
Thanks for sharing this! I love finding out how divination methods have evolved over time.
Was great seeing you in SLC! Hope to see you again soon!
This was very cool to see!
The knee bones may well be the inspiration for Legos. 😂 I was impressed with norse divination in the fact that the answer can be "none of your business" or "f' off". Many divination systems can become an obsession as a person keeps asking the same question expecting a different answer. Not a good option with norse divination.
Another great video
Hi Doctor Crawford, I'm a practitioner of a few different types of divination, including the fragmentary pieces of Seið we havr in the modern day. If the answer your question was "no", be sure not to inherently think the worse. Its a similar cobcept with the Death card in Tarot, people freak out, when it doesn't actually mean death. So honestly, I'd interpret as "No, _but..._" because there are many different ways to interpret messages even if theyre as simple as Yes or No
Fascinating video; thanks for sharing your adventure. New subscriber.
Interesting 🤘🏻⚔⚔🤘🏻
😕 I hope in the future the answer is different. Thanks for another interesting video.
Something that suggests that what Tacitus's informants saw during the divination with bits of inscribed wood, were NOT runes, is that, he or his informants would clearly recognize runes as letters and would call them that, because of how similar runes are to the Roman script of Tacitus's day. He uses a word for "marks" not a word for"letters", which implies the marks were not letters
This video surprised me in a good way. It felt more balanced and less agenda driven than some earlier videos on divination.
How do I get the feeling that his question was whether there's going to be a mrs. Crawford in the near future?
Because romance questions are the most common nowadays.
Good video.
I found your channel through the runes video. You seem like a very nice person. I bought your book and subscribed. Hope you are doing well.
Sheep ankle bones have been used as dice (lots) since the Bronze Age. Look at the Greek concept of TALI AND TESSERAE
' Your the sheep's knee's ! ' i not recall if Lakota had similar. various tribes may. we fast, dance, isolate till vison quest made.
I enjoy learning human history and haven't yet encountered a culture that didn't use some form of divination. Inquiring minds want to know. I credit our incredible psychological drive to control - control our environment, control our outcomes, control our opportunities - which is sometimes so frustrating that we seek the influence of occult (hidden) powers. Those being entirely constructed in our own imaginations, some would argue. Either way, if we can perhaps know, we can perhaps control. What other animal on our planet would do that.
I'll give an example as to what you said about the marks.
In high school, we literally had an eraser, now mind you I didn't know ANYTHING at the time about divination or the history of it.
I just put 'yes' on one side and 'no' on the other. Obviously this was a gag, and we called it the 'holy eraser'.
Then we asked it rediculous questions and tossed it. Then laughed out loud over the answers.
So as you say, the marks, could be anything. And obviously runes are a very tempting answer to the question as they are THE carvings associated with magic and by extension trying to obtain luck.
If, after a time, you are able to judge the accuracy of this rest please let us know. Without revealing your question, of course.
How can you judge things that are related to your own life and thus influenced by your actions?
It's a self fulfilling prophecy that is full of biases.
That's why mysticism always "works" because it shifts failure onto the user (not having enough faith, still being tested, etc.) and success to the mystic power.
There is a reason why this and other procedures require "serious" questions and not trivialities: it would be easy to see that it is bogus.
@PH4RX typically, you don't see people use trivialities during divination because you don't use divination for trivialities. I don't have to ask my dowsing rods if I should or shouldn't eat a candy bar on a certain day because I can make that choice for myself. You could think of divination as being a sort of "phone-a-friend". You don't use it unless you have a reason to, and even when you do, it doesn't always work. It only seems like it "always" works because people only tell you about the times when it does and never when it doesn't.
Those sheeps knees are the bees knees!
I hope you're doing as alright as ya can doc.
Lindybeige has a video wherein a Roman?/Greek? general has the priest sacrifice several animals in succession until he gets his desired answer, so don't give up on the bones after just one try!
I like Tarot cards as a method of divination. Because they are symbolically rich, the random draw can be made to fit any question. When we come to a fork in life's road, we often have an internal conflict of what we really desire vs what we think we should desire. The story we create allows us to transfer responsibility for the decision to the cards. It helps us clarify our thoughts.
As a teenager I often used a coin flip. I came to realize that if I needed a coin toss to decide an issue, then it probably didn't matter which one I chose.
Astragalus bone (hindleg ankle)
I didn’t see any seams on that pouch. There’s only one natural pouch on a sheep, a ram specifically, that fits the Bill.
The sound of the wind rising as Jackson recited the spell was a bit ominous. I missed the card about the question (got distracted), so had to play the video twice to find out what the question was. I didn't expect it to be personal, being that you were demonstrating publicly. Anyway, such divination devices, in my opinion, should be treated like the knockers on the two doors, where one always lies and the other always tells the truth. Except if you only have one, you don't know which it is, and can't find out.
Not 'use it lightly' includes respecting the outcome. Whatever question you asked, make your plans according to the answer.
In Sweden we use the bee's knees.
I think maybe they’re sheep knuckles. There is Mongolian divination, and games, that use 4 sheep knuckles.
Heads or tails?
So essentially a low-tech version of the "magic 8 ball"? 🤔
try spin the lutefisk
Props are fine. My props are a ball cap, coffee mug and an ever present cigarette hanging from my mouth. If i dont have tjose three things people dont recognize me.
Well, I've heard of water divination, no pun intended.
Wonder if the flip of a coin is related to this.
What you asked is certainly none of our business, but please do let us know if the seeress was correct!!
I don't think that bone is a part of a sheeps knee. Those look like one of the bones that build their feet. Sheep walk on their fingertips, these bones could be aequivalents of our phalanges.
So, has the bone said the truth?
Im going to make all my players roll their D20s off their head from now on.
Sheep bone stuff sounds like a tourism product.
Sheep Bone Stuff was one of my favorite punk bands in college.
Those are knuckle bones, my dude!
I think it's good you kept it to yourself, kept it secret.
I don't think it would've worked otherwise.
now I'm curious if the bone told the truth or ended in the chamberpot
Man > method 😉
I guess it’s getting burned.
I think he said it goes in the chamber pot.
Youre Missing out Jackson, Theirs More to the Mind and Soul then Dirt and Stone Can Teach. We are not all the Same lol.
I can prove to you 100% Odin is Realer than He is Percieved