Holbein Colored Pencil Review from a Professional Artist - Lachri
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2021
- Are Holbein Colored Pencils worth the money? Find out if they live up to their hype in today's review and demonstration.
Colored Pencil Society of America cpsa.org/
Note: I am in no way a representative of CPSA. My views on these pencils are completely my own.
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Japan has a habit of doing things its own way, which can be both good or bad (I lived in Japan for 8 years). In this case, that also extends to lightfast testing. Remember, Holbein was built as a Japanese company and until recently only sold in Japan. They wouldn't have seen a need to use expensive testing methods that Japanese wouldn't have understood (Initially they probably didn't have access to the facilities to test using Blue Wool or ASTM). Japan is also well known for it's reluctance to change its business practices. I would guess these are the main reasons they use their own testing system.
Despite the above, I started painting when living in Japan, using Holbein watercolours. Those watercolours are still up there with my favourites (the other two brands being Schmincke and M. Graham).
I've also used Holbein pencils and found the 3 stars to hold up well (but obviously Lisa has pointed out here that each colour is different, and I only bought 20-30 of them to try out). I will say their soft white is amazing, I'm surprised Lisa didn't talk more about that. The build quality is exceptional. Japanese take pride in producing a well made product. I've never had a single breakage from a Holbein pencil, including the soft white, and I've transported them from Japan to the USA, and then to Australia. I've also taken them on overseas holidays to sketch with. The quality is exceptional, it's just the light fastness is questionable.
Final note - I've also used the following pencils: Derwent (old set, 24 pencils), Polychromos (full set), Prismacolor (48 pencils), Luminance (full set). From these, Holbein feels like a unique mix between Prismacolor and Polychromos, leaning heavily towards the Prismacolor side for softness ( around 80%), but with a slightly more oily hardness hinting at the feel of Polychromos (around 20%). But it is hard to describe, as Lisa mentions, they feel unique.
I just didn't purchase the soft white. I've heard good things about it from several artists though. 😊
I trust the japanese methods cause theyre the master experts in six sigma and lean manufacturing.
How can quality be exceptional if it’s not lightfast? I don’t think, where the reason for a product is art, which generally is made to last unless specified for reproduction, that a product can be considered exceptional quality where it fails in its own rating system and misleads artist and fades. That’s like taking a load of crayola kids supplied and sticking them in beautiful Holbein packaging and making them not break and be housed in nice wood casings and then saying look! An exceptional quality product. It’s just an excuse for a place to say they don’t change business practices easily. It’s a bad product. It won’t be good until they just tell the truth about ratings. I’d happily use any brand where 50% or more if their product wasn’t lightfast if they just honestly showed which was which. I’d even buy the least lightfast stuff to use for fun. If they were honest. There’s no excuse.
Having listened to the entire video here, she mentions that the American Testing company did test the Holbeins and THEY DIDN'T PERFORM as claimed. That is a problem regardless of what method they used to measure the lightfastness.
@@didilarson1031 Actually every brand of pigment I have used has several pigments listed as excellent lightfastness that really are not after doing independent testing's. Be it color pencil or watercolor. One has to do their own lightfast testing or find someone who has done the work. Since color pencil companies never tell you exactly what pigment they use to make a color, I would never use any in a project to be displayed without testing it at a south facing window for at least 6 months to a year.
I love that you were so insistent on these ratings for pencils (actually any artist materials) because I rely on them. I bow down to your patience because you are a better person than me!
I was on the verge of buying these, glad I checked here first! Your reviews are super honest and really reflect the product. I tried the Polychromos after watching your review a couple years ago and they've been my go to ever since :D
The price difference between polychromos and these is HUGE! I would go with polychromos over these hands down!
Lisa, I know it is disturbing to not get forthright answers to your questions . So many companies are so afraid to admit ANY weaknesses at all. I mean, look at the recent Daniel Smith watercolor mineral pigment controversy. So Instead of saying so something like…””we are working on revising our ratings to be more accurate” (customers who purchased the products when they weren’t as “accurate” may say they were duped,) they just throw out a lot of jumbo jumbo hoping that will satisfy most inquiries. Honestly, it’s likely the corporate legal department in most larger companies who have the final say in what customer support tells people. Everyone is afraid of a lawsuit or a PR mess, so in their eyes, the less full technical info they give out, the better…they think. As long as their bottom line doesn’t suffer too much, no changes are likely forthcoming about the full accuracy of Holbein pigments and their respective lightfast ratings for their COLOR PENCILS. (Although didn’t YTuber Jane Bush have a video about the revised colors in Holbein’s color pencils?” ) I use some of their watercolors and they’re very good pro quality. And as you know, to be considered “professional artist quality” pigment numbers must be disclosed and Holbein does disclose pigment identification on their watercolors, and I assume their other painting mediums. Many paint makers out there (with some exceptions) could be fooling us. We may never know. There is a level of trust that we tend to give pretty freely and sort of have to unless we want to spend all our time verifying every pigment listed or “highly lightfast” statement on every tube of paint or color medium we possess. Actually lightfast ratings in color pencils never used to be discussed so much, or not that I heard. Now every color medium out there seems to make a statement about their lightfastness, but only if they disclose their pigments can we even be close to being reassured of their lightfastness.
P.S. - Fun tidbit of info: a famous forger of very famous artist’s paintings who successfully copied and sold (until he was finally caught) many well-known masterpieces to many of the world’s most prestigious museums, claims that about 25% of the art hanging on their walls are forgeries…some of them HIS forgeries. He says that even after he was caught, the museums that bought his work would not admit that they were duped and that his “fake” art was never removed. This forger was an exceptionally gifted “copiest,” to say the least.
Thank you for your comments, and thank you for thinking and considering other options as to why people might want these, as well as illustrating that they shine best using different techniques. I grabbed the pastels plus a few extra, almost all the light colours because I want those lighter colours for colouring pages and the like. It's very disappointing on their lack of transparency for lightfast - I wonder if their "about 25 years" is a situation where it should be read as more of a "these can last up to 25 years under optimal conditions", i.e. if a pencil lasts 18m-2yrs it gets 1 star which might correlate with your thoughts on the colours that are not generally lightfast.
I'd be interested if you got the soft white (which *is* really soft and crumbles easily, it actually says on the pencil to sharpen with a blade not a standard sharpener) and your thoughts, especially on the actual lightfast values. I've got this and I'm considering testing against some white pastel pencils to compare how they work in the context of a "for fun" artist.
I have wanted to try Holbein for years - back when Amazon sold them from Japan. When they finally came to the US the price really put me off. I kept going back to them when I was on someplace like Blick but, that was dreaming.
Then a few weeks ago I stumbled across the pencils on sale for a wonderful price. I quickly ordered pastels in open stock. More then a few.
When they came I was thrilled with the feel of the pencils. They were beautiful and fun and you fall in love. So, I ordered a bunch of mid to dark colors.
I had seen this video before I ordered the pastels. I knew the problem with lightfast. But, for me it is not really an issue.
I am not a professional artist like you are.
I had some Arches but, I tried them on Stonehenge. The blending was a little difficult and I am a 'painter' with colored pencils.
I had a few pages of Strathmore Colored Pencils paper and my beloved Artistico. They worked so much better and the dark colors worked much better (from your video!). The pencils seem to like a really toothy paper better then a smoother feel paper. At least that was using the pencils with a brush and Mineral Spirits. And this was my own opinion with the paper I had here in my home.
I love your videos so much. I don’t even color or draw anymore but always watch your videos! Thank you for them.
I remember buying one of the Holbein watercolor value sets on amazon years ago (which is advertised as lightfast) and discovering to my disappointment that nearly a third of all the paints were made with pigments commonly known to be fugitive :( I actually ended up enjoying their paints and still use a few of them. I know that Holbein is more competitively priced in Japan and is popular among Japanese illustrators and designers. I think with all the convenience mixtures and neon/pastel options in the watercolor line that the brand caters more to illustrators/designers overall, hence all the opaqueness regarding the lightfastness of their products.
I totally agree with you that if Holbein wants to advertise that they produce “professional grade” art materials they should have their entire line tested with the same standard testing used by the rest of the industry. Or at least be honest about their products being better suited for designers or hobbyists.
I admit that I'm a massive Holbein fangirl because their watercolors are a favorite of an acclaimed Japanese director of animated films (Miyazaki) and because of the 50 lovely pastel colors in their colored pencil range. To each their own!
While I'm certainly disappointed that the company isn't the most reliable when it comes to providing information important to artists and that their claims of lightfastness don't hold up to close scrutiny, I'll continue to treasure my Holbein products and find ways to use them. Besides, it's not like I ever plan to sell anything I paint or draw.
If you're not selling them and love how they perform I totally get why you will keep using them
I agree! I love my Holbein colors. If I want total Lightfast I will use paints 😊
I have watched several reviews on Hobin colored pencils and you are the 1st who hasn't raved about them. After watching this I can't afford taking a chance on them.
Glad I could save you some money. It makes me feel a bit better about wasting it myself lol!
Thank you for your honst review. You have become one of my go to artist for general information. Thank you again.
Great review!!! I love your personality!!!Our minds think alike I swear, I would have thought and reacted the exact same way!!
Anyway beautiful piece and fantastic review. Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks for the review of the Holbein Artest pencils. I had purchased a dozen of them for the larger areas of the color by number pages .
Your demonstration taught me how to use the Holbein properly.
Thank You for doing this review and so detailed. I was really wondering about the lightfast as well. I haven't seen any professional colored pencil artists using these. I want to do my own lightfast testing on these now. Remember how well your Lyra pencils did for backgrounds. Hopefully you can find some use for these pencils. Tfs
Let me know how your lightfast ratings come out! I'm really curious!!
@@Lachri I feel like the only person who dislikes these pencils. I found them really waxy. Back to polychromos!
Yes really I'm glad she got into that. It can not be overstated and more people need to understand this. Also it should be mentioned the Colored Pencil Society (yes they exist) experiment and measure different brands lightfastness. Edit: lol she mentions this at 15:20 good job!
I appreciate that you give these brands a chance, even when some don't have a good outcome. I came across the Arteza brand once when I wanted to branch out from prismacolors(the constant breakage and quality decline was killing me lol). The artezas weren't working out for me. It was just weird trying to layer the pigment and just fighting the consistency of the texture. In the end, Luminance and polychromos was for the win 🏆. TFS!
It's amazing how much better Luminance and Polychromos are than those isn't it? I LOVE those pencils!
I personally do not like the polychromos.
appuldes !! Awesome work and thank you for going through this to show us what as a customer you can go through. This is a great way to show an unbias approach. Thank you
Nice review! I had a chance to try them and I was expecting a very soft pencil based on what others said about them and they performed than prismacolor, in fact they reminded me a lot of Arteza (weird huh?) But I did enjoy using them as i like to work fast and lay down lots of color. The price (as with many Japanese art products like copic) is too high for me. That said they are a pretty pencil and feel good to use and I think that is what has attracted so many people to them. I was given a 36 set from a friend and I was able to mix them and make the colors I needed just fine and I love the pastels (but I don't trust the lightfastness of pastels) but in a sketchbook or card it's fine. The dogma around different products is amusing.
I totally got what you said in your review about them feeling somewhere between an arteza and prisma. Once I figured out the burnishing from the beginning thing I really liked aspects of them too.
Hi Lindsay. I never tried Arteza cause they have not been around long enough and like the Prisma gave had some quality problems, however with the Prisma the lacking quality is limited to the wood casing. However I am pretty sure that Arteza csme way later as a Colored Pencil manufacturer compared to the Holbein Pencils.
@@smisch7720 You are not missing out on anything if you had any of the Polychromos, Derwent Lightfast, Caran d'Ache Luminance or the Prisma colors.
We need to keep things in perspective. Even as professional artist we do not need to have every single brand. I think it's way more important to keep creating art and to use what we have.
A closet full of unused pencils does not make us better artists just because we poses them.
And a lot of artists' work is never seen even though it should be seen.
Don't let yourself get caught up in the hype of things. Unless it's important to you to keep up with the Jones's.
I just got a few colours to fill out my polychromos as I thought they were harder but oh my goodness I couldn't agree more, they feel just like an arteza!!
Really great info. Thank you so much!
This is the best review I have seen on these yet. I wish I seen it before I spent money on them. As an artist that sells work as well. I will not make art with these for a whole piece. You got all my auestions answered that I had. Questions that I didn't have for the Luminance, Lightfasts, or Polychromos. Thank you so much for looking into all of this. I have one thing that I wonder about all pencils that have a low rating, can they be used safely as a very 1st layer under painting if all the layers after are from higher rated pencils? Just curious what you think.
Very interesting, thanks for your honesty, it helped me a lot as a fellow artist
Thank you so much for this review. I felt this really had a strong hint of good journalism rather than the usual run of the mill "it layers beautifully" review. The digging and persistence you've shown was impressive. After watching this and seeing what some of the other artists have found it seems that there have been some developments in the recent year. It appears that after this, from what I've seen in some of the newer unboxings people have done, Holbein is including a folder with a cross reference explaining their star rating and their relation to the ASTM-standard and an explanation of how they comply with the standard. Lightfastness is confusing enough as it is and Holbein aren't alone with their star rating. Faber castell also turn to the stars, Caran D'ache do their....*checks notes* ...LFI and LFII. Transparency and the ability to explain what lies behind these systems are essential to distributing a trustworthy product aimed for professional artists. Your hesitance need not be defended. I would have loved to see an update video in the matter. If Holbein has gotten their act together and now include a proper explanation in their boxes - presumably as a result of the questions you've raised, it would be so interesting to see your reaction to their new info and present the pencils in a new light. I almost hope this whole embarrassing and cringeworthy story was just a result of a sales rep of the american branch, too eager to please and too hasty not to forward your questions to the proper department for a correct answer. Thank you for sharing so much of yourself, the inspiration you give and allt the good tips.
Thx for the very honest review! So appreciated and to know I’m not missing out on anything not having them! ❤😂thx!!!
Great information - Thank you Lisa! 👏🏻❤️
Glad it was helpful!
Another excellent review full of interesting, useful information! Thank you
I actually love the results you got and think it’s a fantastic piece of art! So sad they seem so shady since I’m one who struggles with the light layers! I’m a bit heavy handed!
TY I've been researching light fastness and finding it so dif. These last few weeks after buying 150 cnt. Prisma and spending a year of diligently producing work to find it could fade away in a year, so heartbreaking as I'm 62 and finally dedicating my time to my art. Any company not respecting their customers makes this experience even more, well it's outrageous. As we age our time w/ our art becomes more and more limited for obvious reason, health, arthritis, time. TY for your honesty. Missing my beloved joyful colors. ☹️ What we don't know can hurt us. ☹️🙂🙂
Just love to watch you, your work is truly amazing, fabulous 😊, review useful for those who sell their work, I don't but live watching and listening to you xx
I bought my Holbeins back in 2018 directly from Japan and I have no argument with them. However, I’m not a professional artist so I can see the need for accurate information where lightfastness is concerned. These feel really good in my hands when I use them, sort of like Polychromos. I think where hardness is concerned, they seem to fall between Prismacolor and Polychromos, at least to me. I love how effortlessly they go down on paper.
I’m thankful I watched this before I spent a ton on these pencils. Thank you!
I really like your explanation on your point of view and how it may different from others!
So if you recommended pencils...which would be top 5 according to usage and true light-fast rating?
Good thing I only own about 3 of them😂 I was very tempted by the pastel color set and now I don’t think I’ll buy them unless this changes. They are far too expensive to not be lightfast, ill just invest in derwent lightfasts if I ever expand my colored pencil collection!!
YES! I would LOVE more of the derwent lightfast colors!! Those perform SOOOO well! Plus I know I can trust that company in both customer service and quality!
They go on sale regularly at Blicks for $2something a piece. That sounds like an advertisement doesn’t it?
@@jenniefrench1338 I think that’s when I picked up a few. I will probably still buy the soft white pencil, I heard it’s a good blending tool
The entire pigment list of Holbein pencils is available in the Holbein website. Is weird that pencils with notoriously fugitive pigments like py1, po13, po1, and pr9 are listed as "2 stars" or "3 stars" and very lightfast pigments like pb15, pv23 and pr122 as "1 star". That makes me feel that their lightfast testing is not reliable and I decided to buy just few colors that I like, avoiding pr146, pr9, po13, po1 and py1. Luminance and Derwent lightfast has both a much wider and reliable pigment selection than Holbein's.
I agree on the laydown of these pencils. I had wanted them for SO MANY years!!! But, I opted for the Luminence instead because of the availability. Glad I did. I did however find them OS at one of my favourite art stores and was so overjoyed. To be quickly underwhelmed. (thought it was just me?!) Thank you for this review, because now I can find new ways of enjoying these pencils! Good to know that the technique on how to use them in order to do so! (I was irritatingly frustrated on the first go around)
I got these as a Christmas gift a few years back. I literally use them for playing in my sketchbook.
Im also not convinced with the lightfastness.So I will still be using my A3 scanner and archival printer when I work with this pencil. Thanks lisa
That would work!
They are very lightfast, I've tested them myself for 6 month. Holbein lightfast ratings always hold up to what they say they are. Iam also a professional artist and I test any materials that I question at all myself. I went through the same thing with Faber Castell and their products... because I was having some colors fade and they absolutely do NOT give out any pigment info what so ever. Iam not sure what size set Lisa bought, but the 150 sets are the sets I always buy and they come with 2 booklets that explain the lightfast ratings. Speaking with people at Holbein is Definitely a pain in the butt and they have always been that way because of a language barrier and how English translates in Japanese. Lisa has always put Holbeins down and I didn't expect her to actually say some good things about them lol. There are people here on RUclips that have videos on testing the lightfast ratings on these pencils also. They are very lightfast
where do you find all of your reference photos?
I bought the full set like 3 years ago (I am not located in the US) so I'm not sure if the formula of mine are different (I have also seen some lightfastness test from some years ago using that set and it seemed pretty good). That being said, coming from a Plychromos user, I found them really weird when I started using them (I don't use solvents and work on smooth papers like Bristol), but as many products, by using them more, I understood how to work with them to my benefit and I really like them (I would love to show you a piece I made using only them to try them out
I've never been a fan of the pablos. They are to Luminance (which I love) what the prisma verithins are to prismacolor. To be fair, even when I used prismacolor I NEVER liked the verithins. The pablos felt similar and they just don't work well for my techniques. I know of a lot of artists who love them though so your technique will really impact your opinion. It looks like the lightfast ratings on the pablos aren't anywhere near as good as the luminance though so keep that in mind when picking out any colors :)
@@Lachri True, different techniques call for different products. I really appreciated your opinion and thank you fgor taking the time! :)
Have you visited RUclipsr Jane Bush, and her addressing Bombs in light vastness and the testing of them. I have no interest in purchasing these pencils, just wanting to know if you have seen this in regards to ATSM results? You did say you liked the pencils, but did not get info you wanted from this company. Can you address this info from another artist?
Sorry for issues with auto correct.
Ooo! Nice! Will these work over Inktense? I tried adding details with Derwent Artist over Inktense, and I couldn't get any colors to work on it. I also tried resist painting with Inktense and the Inktense just colors over the resist as if they weren't there! As for your polychromos breaking in the pencil sharpener, try whittling them down with a craft knife.
Just looked them up out of curiosity, I do like waxy pencils and used to love karisma. Wow they are super expensive for not being lightfast 😮!... and the companies response makes me uncomfortable too. I do wonder if the Japanese versions are any better than the ones sold for export.. or is that just pens!? 😆
I bought the 150 set a couple of years ago after winning a litigation, so it was a treat and I don't regret the money that way. I do, though, sort my pencil sets to the CPSA lightfast test results, and just use the best ones for things I'd sell.
I'd be concerned about the formula changes also because I know that part of the reason they aren't sold in Canada is due to some of their ingredients and toxicity (so I was told by someone at Holbein). So, if they're finally being sold on this side of the pond, it's very possible the formula has been changed from what I have, which I bought from Japan.
That was part of why we speculated the formula might be different. I didn't realize they still weren't in Canada.
They are actually available in Canada. Delta art supplies in Alberta has them. Actually, they're currently on sale and I was really tempted to buy them but won't be now! www.deltaart.ca/category/HolbeinOIL/holbein-oil-base-coloured-pencils
I am so glad I found this review. Thank you for your honesty and for going the extra mile to collect information on these pencils. I am not a fan of corporations/big companies making claims they can’t back up. It happens too much and in all industries. It is so nice to see someone using their mind to investigate, rather than just handing over their hard earned money and following the herd. Good for you.
Yay! I've been waiting for your review of these pencils forever.
Hope you like it!
@@Lachri
I did. Very helpful. I'm a watercolor artist and never understand why some artist love Holbein watercolors. Now, knowing none of them are probably Lightfast I will never buy them. They're too expensive anyway.
Your work is always Awesome!!
Thank you so much 😀
I am wondering if you have tried Hobein's Meltz liquid blender. I purchased it years ago but I haven't seen that many reviews on this blender. I have tried it with most of my pencils but it seems to only work with Holbein pencils. This Meltz works very differently than OMS. I found that it dissolves the pencil into a watercolor pencil consistency.
It also works well with polychromos
I was really thinking of getting these pencils but I live in Australia and the full set when available is $700 to $800 plus nearly $200 postage so way to expensive to buy
I'm not willing to spend that. They are so overpriced in the US compared to the prices in Europe, exchange rate and shipping and VAT all considered. Same as the Polychromos. Right now in the USA through Faber Castel USA Web site they are $700.00 for the wood cased set and the metal tin set over $400.00 .I will not be particaping or complying with this price gauging. I bought mine 2 years ago in Europe for 1/3 of the price, same with the Holbein. If they, either one of them, don't come down in the US to a normal price anymore I'll be going back zo Prismacolor. There is no reason to or ice gauge. Polychromos wood cones from CA cedarwood anyway.
I have time and can wait.
Lisa, thank you for your awesome review. I'm tempted to become a CPSA member just to get the lightfastness tests results. Do you know if CPSA does lightfastness testing on watercolor pencils as well?
You should! And yep! They tested watercolor pencils too!
@@Lachri Thank you for replying. I might become a member. Also about a week ago I set up a lightfastness on the Progresso Woodless colored pencils, so will update you in a few months on those.
I wonder if contacting the Holbein Japanese branch would give a clearer answer to her question(s). Holbein is manufactured in Japan.
I particularly doubt. Japanese industry is very protective of their methods.
I was looking at several 50 color sets ….not anymore I’ll keep my 7 I have and use them to play with lol, you know in case I get bored or run out of other high end products that I own , well this looks good for my upcoming caran d’ache museum aquarelle full set purchase on pay day lmao!!!!! Thank you for the video the time and effort of informing the rest of us
Another interesting tidbit about them so I am a subscriber of palleteful packs and oddly enough that’s what was in this months box we got 7 pencils and I couldn’t understand the start rating either! And they’re supppppper pastel color with like 7 stars on them I was so confused when I looked at them but the weirdest thing was it came with a bottle of meltz which is their (Holbein) solvent and on the bottle it says only works with their pencils and they don’t work on any other pencils I tried and it smells weird it’s not OMS or any other solvent I’ve used that I can tell anyways but I thought the same thing are these cheap oil pastel pencils? Thanks for the video it cleared up a lot for me 😊
I have never seen a Holbein pencil with 7 ******* on it. Only 1-3 or non.
Its actually thanks to your review on the Luminance colored pencils that inspired me to get them, and theyve been my go to ever since. Thanks for that, and im glad i got them instead of these !
Tengo estos lapices; los compre hace ya varios años. Hice Pruebas en mi ventana por 4 meses al sol de mi ciudad, que es intenso, y la mayoria se comportaron de forma buena y excelente, algunos superaron para mi sorpresa a los Faber. Para mi son buenos lapices, no se, si la verdad se haya cambiado su formula. Puntos negativos: el costo y no hay stock abierto para reemplazar los que se van acabando.
When it comes to testing, results are meaningless unless you know the process.
I remember when slide film was the medium many photo artists worked in different tests provided radically different results between Kodachrome and Ektachrome. Kodachrome had the much better dark fade resistants but didn't survive projection well at all.
It sounds like like these are strictly marketing ratings which I absolutely hate.
EXACTLY!!! When he told me they were proprietary I was like WHAT?!?!?! He did NOT just say that!!!
I hate it too
I just started singing that old song Kodachrome. Oh boy it is going to be a long night.
@@jenniefrench1338 Oh great! Now it's stuck in my head.
Thank you for this review Lisa. I always felt I was missing out as these are really expensive to buy in the UK, nor do I think they’re available open stock anywhere now Jackson’s have stopped selling them. So I splashed out on a 12 set of the pastel tones, which is all I could get at a price I was willing to pay. I didn’t really like them, although I may revisit them with OMS now. I still wanted to try the traditional colours but a set of 12 is around over £30 - now I don’t feel the need, I’d rather spend the money on a fistful of Derwent Lightfast or replacing my CD Luminence.
I would surely be interested in hearing why Jackson's stopped carrying them.
Oh yeah, try them with OMS and burnishing, it's a totally different experience!! They worked soooo much better that way.
@@leesanchez8432 stop press - Jackson’s are selling them open stock, I just checked. Many apologies for the misinformation and not double checking before I made the comment.
I just imagined your contact running back to the powers that be stating "it's not working the schpeel is not working, what do I do now?" lol run away run away lol
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I’m think it would go like this……”RUN!!!!” followed by fast paced music with heavy bass line……
😂👍👍
@@Tempus-N0X lol yep and the rest of the department theme song would be the chase scene music from Benny Hill lol
How is lightfast tested?
I got a small set, 36, of Holbein pencils and they’re so, so. I ordered a big set, 150, from Blick but never got them after a month so I Nacelles the order. I’ve found Brutfuner colored pencils. Oil based & not near the price of the Holbeins. They work very similar. Thanks for this video, it helped me decide not to get any more of them.
I don't think the Brutfuners are anything like the Hobeins.. Not a chance .. they are Big Lot quality maybe a half step up from Crayola
Thank you so much!
I've had my art fade before with not-so-great products so, thanks for the review Lisa! 😍
17:05 Thank's that was very helpful and saves me a lot of money because I have a small pastel set of Holbein which is enough to get a Holbein colored pencil experience. I don't need a bigger set or comparable colors, though crazy as I am I still might get a set of 6 or 12 open stock just for a video. And I will reference this video, should I ever get around and make that novice pencil artist experience colored pencil comparison video ...
If I were to do it again I would have gotten far less pencils (I bought something like 50). They do mix and blend really well (when burnishing and using OMS) so I really did not need so many colors just to test them out. I could have saved a LOT of money!
Thank you so much for this terrific review as always and a beautiful demonstration. I just love when you do that. Great information. I so appreciate all of your hard work and your enduring rejection and frustration and expense for us your viewers. Love your dedication, always have.
It was particularly helpful to me because, while watching your review, I realized I have some oil pastels I have not used because I wasn’t sure how to get any detail out of them. But this pencil seems as if it could be used with them to make sense out of what otherwise might be a hot mess. Smile. I wonder could they be mixed? Also, I wonder how does UV protective fixative spray work with oil pastels and these pencils? I suppose I’ll need to look up different videos regarding that...though that is no bash on you. What you showed us was very thorough. I simply wandered into association and wanted to share.
Also, it was an answer-in a round about way I am sure not at all intended by you-to a question I asked you many years ago on this RUclips channel about oil pencils and oil pastels. At that point, I had no idea that oil pencils were harder than wax pencils and had nothing to do with oil pastels. Now that I stopped looking for ways to be able to use the oil pastels, here I may have found my answer. Funny.
As far as why would anyone use the Holbein when one could use the Derwent Lightfast since they can create a great bokeh background, too, well...it seems to me that the Holbein set has a lot more colors than the Derwent Lightfast pencil set; and many might just opt to put their finished work behind UV protective glass.
I realize many Derwent Lightfast colors may simply be blended together in order to get the right colors needed. But honestly, that takes more work and brainpower than most people who don’t sell their work want to go through and then instead opt to put their finished work behind UV protective glass because a lot of people do colored pencil art as a way to relax. I would be one of those people. Though I do realize you did point out these pencils would be fine for people who don’t sell their artwork, I just thought I’d take it a bit further and explain why.
Anyway, thanks again for the review. It was very thought provoking.
Hello !!! Good to know your review.
Thanks!
Allways was sad, that i can't afford them because they have such beautiful colors in their set. Also questioned why their price is so high. Now i am just glad i don't bought them for birthday or something because that company seems not trustworthy at all. Thanks for that video, quality content like allways - much love ♥
Now you can spend any birthday money on more trustworthy pencils
Most want the Holbeins for the pastel colors but I have zo say that I found equivalents to all 50 pastel colors of the Holbeins in the 150 Prismacolor set.
Actually, i was always wondering what all the rave about Holbein products was. Sure, they are hella expensive, but that's because they are a japanese company (you know, shipping, customs, etc are not cheap for those).
But what i got to understand is, that ALL Holbein products are more like a mixed media medium. Like their watercolors are not what most people know as watercolors, they can lean towards gouache a lot, or towards tempera, etc. Same goes for their pencils, which seem to lean a lot towards oil pastels. And that's what many people seemed to like.
I myself am very much a mixed media artist, so i was always a bit curious about them. Though i admit, their lightfast ratings made me hella suspicious. And that's one of the reasons why i always put the idea of trying them out off.
The other reasons are, i live in Germany. I get all the Schmincke, Faber-Castell and Hahnemühle (for paper) products everywhere for as cheap as nowhere else. Those are local companies for me that have established their high standards and trustworthiness a long time ago. And if i want a change of pace, it takes me 10 minutes to be in France, to get stuff like Sennelier watercolors. I can drive to the swiss border within 40 minutes and get Caran D'Ache pencils to my hearts content for the most affordable price (which is, btw, still quite pricy even in the companies home country).
And then there's a huge variety of eurpean cheaper art supply brands (like White Nights and Roman Szmal watercolors) with lower quality for practicing or field painting. Not to mention some amazing american brands like Daniel Smith or Golden to try out, which are STILL cheaper than Holbein products here, but are reliable (at the lightfastness ratings, at least).
So, yeah. Seriously, even when I used to draw with alcohol markers, i ignored the japanese Copics, even though everyone was acting as if they're the only real thing. Instead i got the korean ShinHan markers, with only 2/3 of the color range, but half the price. Only thing I consider worth the price AND the eco print of importing from Japan, are certain fabrics for clothing (very rarely) and certain types of printed paper (like Yuzu and Washi paper) for collages or the backside of ACEO cards.
Oh, you live near all the best supplies!!! I'm jealous!
I am a German in Australia and I still love German brands like Faber Castell and Schmincke. I know they don't disappoint me, quality is always top. They are around for hundreds of years.
You might be careful with Daniel Smith watercolours and lightfastness. They seem to lie to customers as well and when questioned they act in a very arrogant way.
If you have the time and interest may you do a review on Caran d'ache Pablo pencils? I noticed you have a review comparing luminance and polychromos, and a video that you prefer the big three: derwent lightfast, luminance and polychromos but I can't recall if you've ever mentioned your thoughts on the Pablos. Nonetheless I appreciate this review, saved me a lot of money. Thank you for your time.
Awesome vid. Stay safe. 👍
Just my 2 cents worth,
I did work with number of labs which perform number of ASTM tests. I know their costs, and how long it takes for them to perform it.
To be honest, the price of the testings (some call it, certificates, assurance, compliance etc depending on the country etc) is not that high and it only take 3-6 months depending on the backlog.
What I believe, or tent to believe, is that some producers get horrific results (I know some Chinese producers got pretty damning results) decide to hide the results and just say it’s not been tested/ certified.
Many of these research institutes have Japanese branches (after all, many products produced by Japan are for export) and has well serving local staffs to support any producer who wishes to conduct such certification process.
This means, they either failed miserably on ASTM tests and decided to hide the results OR they cannot be bothered to pay for that little cost (compare to their operation given their website claims that it is one of the LARGEST manufacturer of art materials). Either ways, it does not improve one’s confidence in them.
What concerns me the most is not only their lightfastness. All materials come exclusively from Japan (as they claim). Although Osaka (there 2 manufacturing base) is reasonably far from Fukushima, it does not confirm whether any materials come from Fukushima. We know lots of woods from Fukushima is currently trading below the market price hence many mass producers use them. We had number of cases where non food items from Japan were rejected for import from number of countries when they were tested against radioactivity (eg number of made in Japan vehicles were rejected for radioactivity contamination). I think some of us still remember uranium blue incident from 70s and other where some color pigments carried radioactive substances and probably caused lots of cancer among artists and users.
We do work with pencils on extreme proximity and it does create lots of dusts etc, god know what would happen when you inhale tiny particles.
They should be tested for radioactive contamination before letting into US, EU or any other countries but unfortunately no data avail.
I will never use them as it has many serious questions hanging over them.
I’ve been doing 1 year window tests. I check at 6 months as well. Then I place supplies in Two categories fugitive (personal work, sketchbooks, for myself) and lightfast (for commissions and most gifts). I also think UV protective spray and glass really help, but yeah the initial rating shouldn’t include UV protective spray or glass nor should the method of lightfast test be ‘secret’. That’s sus. I would do my own window tests before using in my personal ‘lightfast’ categories.
Beautiful Drawing 👏👍💙🧡
Thank you so much 😀
I’d just like to correct my previous comment - Jackson’s is now selling these pencils open stock. Many of the colours are listed as ‘awaiting stock’ but you can sign up for an email alert as and when they arrive.
I just wanted a review of Holbein pencils and ended up with so much more!!! Thank you so much for listing your catalog of fine art tutorials. I’m so excited to be a new member to your Patreon community. I love that you work with all the mediums I love most. I use everything except for acrylics, but you have so much to keep me busy in all my favorite pencils, graphite, pastels and pan pastels. Super excited to grow and learn. Thank you so much for this review. I’d much rather spend my money on derwent and caran d’ache. I won’t be buying any more of their watercolor either bcuz their methods sound so sketch!!
lisa 10 years later: IM STILL WAITING FOR A REPLY HOLBEIN!
LOL I sure hope not!
Very balanced review Lisa, well done.
Nice to hear about all the different things you tried with them and both good and bad points.
Hi to the frogs.
Thanks! The frogs say hi back :P
Thank you for the review, Lisa.
I recently purchased the full set (from Japan at a more decent price), and I'm impressed with how robust they are. They are oil pencils but are much softer than the Polychromos. Their soft white is absolutely amazing. And as we all know, white is a lightfast color, so no problem there. As far as the range of pastels is concerned, don't be fooled. You can take a full box of Prismacolor pencils (or another brand) and rearrange them so that you can say, "look, Prisma has such a nice range of pastel colors now!" It's really just the way Holbein organized the pencils in the box. As far as the lightfastness is concerned, that is a problem, of course, but I'll have to test that myself for now. And as far as the customer service is concerned, I'm not going to let that ONE representative ruin my lovely Holbein experience forever. I love their gouache and heard their watercolor was amazing. Japanese art supplies have never let me down so far. And Lisa, it looks like you had a fun time using these pencils overall.
Lisa, you were saying how hard you were pushing to get what you wanted, so I'm wondering if you remember how your hand and wrist coped with that? I'm asking because someone I know is considering these because they are said to be soft and creamy. That's because she has hand problems. Thanks.
I wouldn't enjoy adding that much pressure to a pencil on a regular basis, but that is just because of my arthritis.
It is sad that they do this. I got some paints from them, but I guess I have to test them myself before using them. I am glad I have held back on buying a lot of paints and none of the pencils. Considering they are amongst the most expensive pencils you can buy, this is very depressing news.
thank you for the review, i think this pencils are expensive beacause they are japaneses pencils like the copic, i bought my pencils holbein from amazon japon, and it are more cheap than in my country for a big diference aproximate of 120 usd in the 100 pencil's box and that diference in the price was crazy. sorry for the english i speak spanish.
Thank you!
I like my Holbein colored pencils more than my Prismacolors, but usually use them combined for the first layers, then I burnish them with Luminance or Polychromos.
I did a home test with UV light for around 8h a day for a couple of days. Holbein performed similar to Polychromos and Caran D'Ache, no fading, only Prismacolor had some fading. Of course I didn't tested all colors, just 3 or 4 and it was in the Japanese humid summer.
Holbein colored pencils have some of my favorite skin tones.
They are very shady with their pencils
I would personally be very worried to put anything not as lightfast with the expensive more lightfast color pencils as it will likely negate the point of using the expensive highly lightfast pencils to begin with. However I am going to actually test (still working out how to properly speed up lightfast testing accurately at home lol) that exact idea, burnishing a lower lightfast rated pencil with a highest lightfast rating pencil etc. Like does it protect the lower rated pencils color and integrity? Or does it end up even more strange, and quicker? Curiouser and curiouser. Unfortunately unless we're testing things in a manner that can speed up the process or we wanna actually wait years and years, possibly an entire lifetime to watch some searches and artworks sit in the sun etc. We aren't ever going to know for sure. The exception being the sad sad pencils that fade or change color entirely etc within 6 months to a year. Those are just absolutely ridiculous and art made with those should be made into prints and tossed in the trash. Lol. Or just not made at all to stop the confusion! Hahaaha
Thank you, I was days away from buying these pencils…nope.
Lisa please check out the new Holbien pencil box it has the light fast astm ratings in the leaflet that is in the new box. I think they listened to your video.:) Watch Pamelas passion for pencils unboxing.
While I understand your point about them not using the ASTM or Blue Wool standard for their lightfast testing, it’s disingenuous to imply their pencils are therefore not at all lightfast. These are American developed standards and are not the only standards or methods for lightfast testing that exist, though they are amongst the most widely known. Exposure to direct sunlight will fade even highly lightfast colours in no time at all, compared to other display conditions, so the rep’s comments are not misleading when he talks about different light conditions producing different results.
The CPSA testing does have some surprises that don’t align with Holbein’s own ratings and there are many pencils that came out fugitive (or at least below the grade that should be used for professional artwork), but the overall number of colours that come out as lightfast is not incomparable to the original 72 sets of Derwent Lightfast or Caran d’Ache Luminance. And they are not the only brand of professional pencils where some of the manufacturer lightfast ratings don’t align with CPSA results.
It is a 150 set and, like Prismacolor, not all colours are lightfast and many of the colours you would expect to have lower ratings or be fugitive are so.
I wouldn’t trash the whole company and say all their products must be junk because of this - I’m seeing a lot of comments questioning their paints and other products which are not the subject of this review and saying they now won’t buy anything from Holbein.
By all means call them out on not using the main American industry standards for lightfast testing, particularly given the price point of these pencils, but don’t throw the whole company under the bus because of it. They are still producing a quality pencil that will appeal to some artists.
Well given I specifically asked about lightfast, I do think his response was misleading. So we will just disagree there. Blue Wool and ASTM standards are used worldwide. This is in no way an American thing.
According to Holbein, only 18 colors would be one or no star. They claim the others are quite lightfast. Because they're being shady about their lightfast testing methods I can only go by what other blue wool testing has found. That's 63 pencils that are not lightfast. That is a HUGE discrepancy. There is very little difference between what CPSA has found with the pencils I normally use and their claims. The other difference here is with those brands I know how they're testing because they're honest about that with artists and I know I can trust those methods.
If you buy a full set of 150 holbeins you're paying full price for a 63 non lightfast pencils. When I buy a set of 72 Derwent lightfast I'm only paying for lightfast pencils given they're ALL lightfast.
As I said several times in my video, I'm a professional who sells my work. I can NOT chance my time or reputation with a company that MIGHT be ok on some products.
As far as prismacolor having so many pencils that aren't lightfast, you are correct. I don't use those either, but their prices reflect that. Prismacolor is relatively inexpensive.
I'm not trashing the whole company, I asked them questions and gave them every oportunity to clarify these issues. THEY made themselves look bad by their responses. Don't shoot the messenger and all that. Again, as I said in the video I liked aspects of this pencil.
I never said all their products were junk. I said I can't trust their ratings at this point and won't use them in my own work, including the airbrush paint I previously used now that THEY informed me they use the same "proprietary" methods to test ALL their products. This is why others are bringing up their other products. I can only base my opinion on the information provided and they aren't providing enough by many artists standards.
Thank you for all of the great information. Really clarified lightfast testing standards. Are the sets manufactured for 🇺🇸 a different formula or did Holbein change the formula for all their sets? Love your channel and your reviews.
I have no idea on the formula. There is speculation that it had to be changed to pass the toxicity requirements for the US but I have no proof of that. The company hasn't said anything about it that I'm aware of.
Nice nice!!! Hmmm I wonder what color fades first, when discussing fading colors :P ??? And what color fades the slowest when exposed to INDIRECT sunlight
Typically a lot of blues, purples and pinks.
Guess it’s a good thing I was already planning to switch watercolor brands.
I really need to do some more watercolor! That is such an awesome medium!!! Are you going to do watercolor pencils or regular watercolors? They're both great!!
@@Lachri I actually have both but I prefer to work with traditional watercolors. I like to make my own pans. I’m actually not in love with the Holbein watercolors, I find them to be more opaque than what I like. I’m leaning towards Daniel Smith.
I love watercolor. It’s my medium of choice.
You're the second person I've heard from today that wasn't a fan of the Holbein watercolors. I've used the Schmincke and can say for sure those are amazing!! Have you tried those?
@@Lachri I have not. I’ve used Mission Gold, Winsor Newton Cotman, Sennelier and a few from Daniel Smith. I do like the Sennelier but they’re not the best for making your own pans due to their formula. Daniel Smith has about 260 colors so plenty to chose from. Lol
Lisa and Marvin: if changing brands or doing more with watercolors is the plan going forward, I will be bold and make a few suggestions. My preferred palette, which did take me a couple of years to build, is composed of Daniel Smith, M. Graham, Sennelier and Schmincke watercolors. I have been supremely happy with these four. Advice #2: for best results and ease in color mixing, buy only single pigment paints most of the time. It makes color mixing much simpler. To learn about the properties of particular paints from particular brands I must recommend you tube channel: In Liquid Color, and go to her playlist on the topic. Enjoy!
Holbein, Holbein, Holbein. . . You rained on the TOTALLY wrong parade. . . Sigh. . . LOL!!!
I am really glad I checked this video before buying Holbein products.
Amazing.
Thanks!
@@Lachri welcome
OMG it took me 4 times of pausing your video thinking my refrigerator was breaking down to realize that noise was your frogs. I didn't expect frogs to make that noise even though you said it a few times.
LOL!!!
@@Lachri I definitely agree with the point that if you are a professional artist, why would you put weeks of hard work into a product that you can't claim as "archive grade" in order to sell for an appropriate price, especially since you can get great results from less expensive pencils which can be guaranteed. Very good point you make.
now I SUPPOSE if you really wanted to you can pass on the three-star guarantee to your customers and if it turns out to be untrue you might have a class-actionable lawsuit, but good luck trying to sue a foreign company.
You remind me so much of the RUclipsr Emily from BiteSizeVegan
Not so much about your look but your sense of humour, accent and personality. Awesome. I subscribed :-)
I like the pastel colors I was thinking about trying a small set. It is not the light-fast that concerns me, it is the performance. I have prismas and I don't need these for sure.
The only thing these have over prismas is that they didn't break on me. If that doesn't bother you though I would go with prismas for sure. They are SOOOOOO much cheaper than these!
@@Lachri Thank you.
If I'm not wrong, their pastel colors has the lower light fastness.
I was wondering if it was Holbein n USA you were talking to or Holbein Japan. The Art Gear Guide got a rude response from Holbein USA that was corrected by Holbein Japan. Have a look at his latest video
Thank you for the tip. Will check it out. Someone in the company must be tearing their hair out in frustration.
I contacted them through the question/contact form on their website. The address on the email was the US.
oh i have been WAITING for this review!!!!
I will rather stay with my Luminance, Lightfast and Polychromos. I originally thought these were completely over priced. I mean are they stating these are better than Luminance which are being manufactured in Switzerland..
They are from Japan, and the price is due to transportation, customs, etc. That all costs quite something from a country that far away.
Thank you for this very complete, wide-ranging and fair analysis. I am disappointed in Holbein, but halfway expected that I think their watercolor line is mostly crap, you cannot do realism properly the way they are set up. The colors are appealing, but the real use situation changes that equation. I will reserve my holbein for the occasional color book play. I have polychromos, which I love most of all colored pencils. Also have Derwent Lightfast and luminance, so I do not have the right to moan about what is available. We could all use more pinks and purples of course.
I always want more pinks and purples haha.
I totally admire your tonasity!!!! Thank you for sharing!!
I have a question that’s been bugging me: why would coloured pencils be inherently less lightfast that other mediums? Surely if you use, say, ultramarine blue it wouldn’t matter what the binder is, it’ll be lightfast. And why would you need to use fugitive pigments for some mediums when permanent ones get you the same colours?
It has something to do with the vehicle/medium the pigment is mixed into. Oil and acrylic with the one pigment does not always have the same issues that same pigment struggles with when mixed with all of the ingredients used to make other mediums. There is a lot more involved but that is sort of the short explanation. If it's something you're really interested in, do a google search. The information is both overwhelming and really REALLY interesting!
I saw this video again, because for me it is important, and I wanted to have details. It's a shame that pencils that work well... don't have specific information on lightfastness.
Glad you made this, I just reached out to Castle Arts asking about their lightfast ratings. They have absolutely beautiful colours and I bought a lot of their paints and pencils without even thinking about lightfastness.
I did the same with their airbrush paint. To be fair though oils and acrylics don't typically have as big of a problem getting lightfast colors so you're likely more safe there.
haha I was like finally!