Our Forestry dept. "Fire fighters" run 40:1 mix in both chainsaws and Water pumps. They have tons of fuel pre-mixed in five gallon cans that they ship out on big fires. They have calculated much like the military all the pros and cons. I've used 40:1 for over 30 years and have not had a problem period. When I learned Forestry was doing the same it made me smile. I had to richen the high speed jet but I do it for the extra life from the extra oil. Years ago my old homelite XL12 and my two stroke snowmobiles all ran 20:1. The quality of the oils has improved a lot from those days and leaner oil mixtures are the norm now. I'm old school and just can't quite make the jump to 50:1 but I'm not alone. Thanks for the video and the voice of reason.
Great video and theory on fuel mix ratio. Couldn’t agree more with you when you say “whatever works” for your saw. I was raised on 32:1 for our Lawnboy mower, and now I run my saw with 50:1 for the last 20 years. “Whatever works”! Thanks for sharing Stay safe
There are plenty of videos out there showing that running 50:1 mixture will make your equipment run cooler and creates less soot and carbon buildup. Running a good 2 stroke oil such as Echo red armor or amsol dominator at 50:1 your equipment will run flawlessly and last.
I agree ,,, more oil ,,I have been doing the same ,,,I like the thought of added lubrication,, been doing it this way for years,, and with regular maintenance,, I have never lost any equipment due to poor lubrication,,and I am running saws from back in the 50s,,, I have taken them down only to see a good heavy film of 2 stroke on everything,,,,works for me too,, just got to take that tuning screwdriver for regular tuning
Great discussion and you're correct that it's a hot button topic for some fellas (right up there with do you grease a bar tip or not...). I agree that the published ratios in the owner's manuals are EPA driven. I don't pile off into the best oil ratio or best brand of oil debate but if asked my response is to run a quality oil (JASO FD) at a ratio that requires more oil than the published EPA driven ratio.
Thanks! No greasing bar tips for me, I remove all the factory grease and oil them. I believe the grease pulls the dirt and grit in wearing them out faster. I haven't lost one yet. Just my experience!
@@Cholton222I'm sure you know Rotella and Delo diesel oil has more zinc in it than any other oil except for racing oil Rottela has a tad bit more zinc than Delo . I run straight 30 Rotella in my single cylinder gas lawn equipment but my diesel lawn equipment I run Rotella 15/40 but in my Kohler v twins I run genuine Kohler 20/50 .
It doe not really matter what ratio you run within normal published fuel ratios as long as your saw is tuned properly to the fuel ratio you are running at the time. For me having seen what the inside of a 2 stroke engine looks like after running 50:1 vs 40:1 vs 32:1, I personally like the results I see with 32:1. I'm running Honda HP2 at the recommended ratio on the bottle. If I'm running Echo Red Armor I find better results with 40:1 simply because the Red Armor does not burn as clean as I would like at the 32:1 ratio. The only real issue I have found with running a 50:1 ratio is the crank bearings don't have an adequate oil film on them for longevity IMHO, but it will work if that's all you have as long as the saw is properly tuned for that ratio.
The quality of the oil matter, too. 50:1 with the best-performing oils is probably as good or better than 32:1 with poor oil, though that's such a big difference that I'm not sure I'd bet on anything more than "about the same." There is a RUclips channel that I won't mention out of respect for this channel where there are several videos showing what the oil film on the crank and connecting rod looks like after running various 2-cycle oils and removing the top end. There are other factors that make an oil "better" but that is surely one of the most important.
My approach is 40:1 for everything, even my 50-year old Homelite saws. I think we can say we do know two things: First, saw manufacturers have an inflexible requirement to comply with emissions restrictions, and reducing the amount of oil in the fuel mix is one of the easiest ways to deal with that. Second, economically speaking, once a saw is out of warranty a manufacturer has relatively little reason to worry about the service life of a saw. Consider also the huge number of saws that fail or become inoperable due to completely unrelated causes (bad fuel, bad storage, etc.) and it's easy to see why manufacturers find it easy to recommend 50:1. I'm not being cynical at all...these are simple facts. How individual manufacturers deal with these will vary, but these are part of the production/sales "math."
32:1 is wut I've always mixed my saws at , people need to remember the 50:1 is an EPA requirement for these saws shops and manufactures to sell saws so there going to push that mixture , I had an old logger tell me that when I was 19 and he said that the local saw shops are required to push that .
It isn't. Your EPA has no jurisdiction in the rest of the world, but modern oils are universal across the globe. It's all to do with the oil industry progressing over 60 years. As for the concept that local saw shops years ago were being forced to push a narrative, that's completely nuts, like something from a third world dictatorship. Think about it
I run 25:1 in some saws and 40:1 in others. I have checked the cylinders and pistons in some saws after running 40 to 50 gallons these mixes through various saws and everything looked brand new. I also think this is all EPA driven. Funny how these new saws have strict EPA regulations but I'm going to take that gallon of gas and turn it into two tons of firewood and send it up a chimney. But that's big government thinking.
Some of my 2-stroke equipment recommends 40:1 & some 50:1. I mix the same 40:1 for everything. My gas grass trimmer (1994) is 30 years old. My chainsaws are all 20+ years old. Even though I may not always buy the best 2-stroke oil, I never skim on it (by doing a 50:1 mix).
The only issue I've seen running a heavier oil mix in a trimmer is the screen in the exhaust tends to plug up a little quicker due to the carbon being produced. It's nothing a propane torch can't clean off though! Thanks for watching
@sawsonthefarm It's never been a problem the past 30 years with the same McCulloch 34 cc grass/brush trimmer that recommends a 40:1 mix. It's the only gas trimmer I have ever owned, & it gets used.
I tell people use wut uou feel comfortable with, i just know as a small engine repair guy i see more saw on my bench with failure cus of 50:1 mix than any other, i build saws for people, i ported a saw for a logger and i gave him a gallon of the fuel and oil i use in my saws mixed for the break in , after that fuel was gone he went back to wut he used and he called me and told me that the saw ran great until he went back to the fuel he used , so he started using wut i use and no issues, .
I’m right in the middle of most people. I run 45 to 1. I run echo red armor , and pull my saws down and clean and inspect them every winter. I am very happy with everything. Very little carbon and everything is well coated in oil.
Yes. Legislation driven. Now you have altered the new one from stock it stopped smoking and you know the power gain from the feel you seemed happier with it. I have an old 372xp but just stock never altered anything on it. Just new bars chains sprockets bumpers. That's all. Maybe I got lucky it screamed out the box and it still does. Oh and I bought an extra air filter forgot that !
I always tune my saw every time I run it. Depends on the weather and temperature that day. I always make sure my saw 4 strokes with no load and cleans up in the cut. Basically all hi jet adjustments to keep it from getting damaged should it end up lean.
It's very strange. I saw a recent video a guy did where he ran a heavier mix 25:1 vs 50:1, and used a thermal gun to measure the external temps on the piston head and muffler. It actually ran hotter with the 25:1 mix using the same carb settings. The theory being that more oil may have provided slightly more lubrication, but as that oil burned, it left behind more contaminants (carbonization) which burns much hotter and does not get as easily expelled out the muffler in the exhaust. It ran at a higher temperature, but not enough to cause damage (except some fouling). Just a bit hotter. There's a balance needed to provide just enough lubrication, but not so much you end up with excessive fouling and excessive heat. Not enough lubrication of course, will cause excessive friction, thus the excessive heat and damage to the alloy.
I'm not buying that shit cus I logged for 11 years and the saws I used were Husqvarna 385 xp and they were made in the early 2000s I bought mine in 2001 and used it for 11 years never blew up , never took it apart until I stopped logging, that saw had no carbon build up like you'd think mixing my oil and fuel at 32:1 , !!! Yeah it had carbon on the piston but not as much as you'd think , so if you buy into that's your entitled to.
@@larrywarner9314 Oh, I don't doubt you one bit. I guess the point was that the engine, even though it has more lubrication may actually run a little hotter because of the oil that burns, since oil has more contaminants than fuel, causing temp to be a little higher. It certainly isn't enough to harm the engine though. The benefit of more lube probably outweighs the slight increase in temp. But, if you run it with no lube, then the friction makes it so hot, it will obviously destroy the engine. Regardless, I still break in all my 2-cycle stuff with 25:1, and run with 43:1 on just about everything.
The saw ran hotter because the 25:1 mixture has less gas and more oil than the 50:1 mix that the saw was turned for. This will cause a leaner condition thus the saw will run hotter. The 25:1 mix is more viscus so less fuel will flow through the jets. If the saw was tuned for the 25:1 fuel and then ran on the 50:1 mix with no tuning adjustment, the saw would have gone rich and would have run cooler. The outcome of the test will differ depending on what mix the saw was turned for before the test was conducted. If the saw would have been tuned properly for both fuel mixture test runs, the temps would have probably been statistically the same.
Your right, it is a hot topic lol! I saw a dude online (shocking right???) Arguing that 50:1 is absolute law. So comical that people fall for the epa garbage! More oil=less damage to your machines...less oil=they sell more equipment from damaged parts
The moto guys understand pretty well that the jet is just an orifice, the difference in viscosity between more or less oil is what makes it flow more or less through the orifice. 40:1 and 50:1 are basically the same viscosity, it would be tough to measure, so they should perform pretty similar.
You know me, I own a lot of 2 strokes. From outboards to RC’S, I run 50:1, I think you hit the nail on the head with the talk about tuning. The most important thing is to tune the motor properly for the fuel that you are running.
Our Forestry dept. "Fire fighters" run 40:1 mix in both chainsaws and Water pumps. They have tons of fuel pre-mixed in five gallon cans that they ship out on big fires. They have calculated much like the military all the pros and cons. I've used 40:1 for over 30 years and have not had a problem period. When I learned Forestry was doing the same it made me smile. I had to richen the high speed jet but I do it for the extra life from the extra oil. Years ago my old homelite XL12 and my two stroke snowmobiles all ran 20:1. The quality of the oils has improved a lot from those days and leaner oil mixtures are the norm now. I'm old school and just can't quite make the jump to 50:1 but I'm not alone. Thanks for the video and the voice of reason.
Thank you for the great comment! 👍🏻
Great video and theory on fuel mix ratio. Couldn’t agree more with you when you say “whatever works” for your saw. I was raised on 32:1 for our Lawnboy mower, and now I run my saw with 50:1 for the last 20 years. “Whatever works”!
Thanks for sharing
Stay safe
Thank you!
There are plenty of videos out there showing that running 50:1 mixture will make your equipment run cooler and creates less soot and carbon buildup. Running a good 2 stroke oil such as Echo red armor or amsol dominator at 50:1 your equipment will run flawlessly and last.
I agree ,,, more oil ,,I have been doing the same ,,,I like the thought of added lubrication,, been doing it this way for years,, and with regular maintenance,, I have never lost any equipment due to poor lubrication,,and I am running saws from back in the 50s,,, I have taken them down only to see a good heavy film of 2 stroke on everything,,,,works for me too,, just got to take that tuning screwdriver for regular tuning
Absolutely!
Great discussion and you're correct that it's a hot button topic for some fellas (right up there with do you grease a bar tip or not...). I agree that the published ratios in the owner's manuals are EPA driven. I don't pile off into the best oil ratio or best brand of oil debate but if asked my response is to run a quality oil (JASO FD) at a ratio that requires more oil than the published EPA driven ratio.
Thanks! No greasing bar tips for me, I remove all the factory grease and oil them. I believe the grease pulls the dirt and grit in wearing them out faster. I haven't lost one yet. Just my experience!
@@Cholton222I'm sure you know Rotella and Delo diesel oil has more zinc in it than any other oil except for racing oil
Rottela has a tad bit more zinc than Delo . I run straight 30 Rotella in my single cylinder gas lawn equipment but my diesel lawn equipment I run Rotella 15/40 but in my Kohler v twins I run genuine Kohler 20/50 .
It doe not really matter what ratio you run within normal published fuel ratios as long as your saw is tuned properly to the fuel ratio you are running at the time. For me having seen what the inside of a 2 stroke engine looks like after running 50:1 vs 40:1 vs 32:1, I personally like the results I see with 32:1. I'm running Honda HP2 at the recommended ratio on the bottle. If I'm running Echo Red Armor I find better results with 40:1 simply because the Red Armor does not burn as clean as I would like at the 32:1 ratio. The only real issue I have found with running a 50:1 ratio is the crank bearings don't have an adequate oil film on them for longevity IMHO, but it will work if that's all you have as long as the saw is properly tuned for that ratio.
Great comment! Thank you!
The quality of the oil matter, too. 50:1 with the best-performing oils is probably as good or better than 32:1 with poor oil, though that's such a big difference that I'm not sure I'd bet on anything more than "about the same." There is a RUclips channel that I won't mention out of respect for this channel where there are several videos showing what the oil film on the crank and connecting rod looks like after running various 2-cycle oils and removing the top end. There are other factors that make an oil "better" but that is surely one of the most important.
My approach is 40:1 for everything, even my 50-year old Homelite saws. I think we can say we do know two things: First, saw manufacturers have an inflexible requirement to comply with emissions restrictions, and reducing the amount of oil in the fuel mix is one of the easiest ways to deal with that. Second, economically speaking, once a saw is out of warranty a manufacturer has relatively little reason to worry about the service life of a saw. Consider also the huge number of saws that fail or become inoperable due to completely unrelated causes (bad fuel, bad storage, etc.) and it's easy to see why manufacturers find it easy to recommend 50:1. I'm not being cynical at all...these are simple facts. How individual manufacturers deal with these will vary, but these are part of the production/sales "math."
i run 32:1 with rec fuel and Briggs and Stratton two stroke oil, I've never had a problem with it.
I do 32:1 with Lawnboy 2 stroke oil and never had a problem either .
32:1 is wut I've always mixed my saws at , people need to remember the 50:1 is an EPA requirement for these saws shops and manufactures to sell saws so there going to push that mixture , I had an old logger tell me that when I was 19 and he said that the local saw shops are required to push that .
I couldn't type it any better , I do the same and believe the same as you .
It isn't. Your EPA has no jurisdiction in the rest of the world, but modern oils are universal across the globe. It's all to do with the oil industry progressing over 60 years. As for the concept that local saw shops years ago were being forced to push a narrative, that's completely nuts, like something from a third world dictatorship. Think about it
I run 25:1 in some saws and 40:1 in others. I have checked the cylinders and pistons in some saws after running 40 to 50 gallons these mixes through various saws and everything looked brand new. I also think this is all EPA driven. Funny how these new saws have strict EPA regulations but I'm going to take that gallon of gas and turn it into two tons of firewood and send it up a chimney. But that's big government thinking.
I use 40/45:1 in my cheap saws and never have had a cylinder problem yet, 50:1 seems to dry for the extreme heat in Texas in summer so it’s 40:1😊
Some of my 2-stroke equipment recommends 40:1 & some 50:1. I mix the same 40:1 for everything. My gas grass trimmer (1994) is 30 years old. My chainsaws are all 20+ years old. Even though I may not always buy the best 2-stroke oil, I never skim on it (by doing a 50:1 mix).
The only issue I've seen running a heavier oil mix in a trimmer is the screen in the exhaust tends to plug up a little quicker due to the carbon being produced. It's nothing a propane torch can't clean off though! Thanks for watching
@sawsonthefarm It's never been a problem the past 30 years with the same McCulloch 34 cc grass/brush trimmer that recommends a 40:1 mix. It's the only gas trimmer I have ever owned, & it gets used.
I tell people use wut uou feel comfortable with, i just know as a small engine repair guy i see more saw on my bench with failure cus of 50:1 mix than any other, i build saws for people, i ported a saw for a logger and i gave him a gallon of the fuel and oil i use in my saws mixed for the break in , after that fuel was gone he went back to wut he used and he called me and told me that the saw ran great until he went back to the fuel he used , so he started using wut i use and no issues, .
I’m right in the middle of most people. I run 45 to 1. I run echo red armor , and pull my saws down and clean and inspect them every winter. I am very happy with everything. Very little carbon and everything is well coated in oil.
I've heard good thinks about red armor!
I run Castrol 2T oil in my Stihl chainsaws, as well as all of my 2 stroke equipment. Never had any issues. Thanks for sharing!
Yes. Legislation driven. Now you have altered the new one from stock it stopped smoking and you know the power gain from the feel you seemed happier with it. I have an old 372xp but just stock never altered anything on it. Just new bars chains sprockets bumpers. That's all. Maybe I got lucky it screamed out the box and it still does. Oh and I bought an extra air filter forgot that !
EPA doesn't have any say in the rest of the world though, where modern two stroke oil is available and recommended at 50/1
So do you thing a saw tuned on 50:1 will need a return on 40:1? I switched mixes recently havnt return any of them yet
I always tune my saw every time I run it. Depends on the weather and temperature that day. I always make sure my saw 4 strokes with no load and cleans up in the cut. Basically all hi jet adjustments to keep it from getting damaged should it end up lean.
Do you think autotune from a Husky 572 is good enough to compensate a 40:1 mix or would you recommend a retune
Honestly I have zero experience with auto tune saws. I've never even held one. Sorry I can help but maybe someone can chime in here and help you out.
It's very strange. I saw a recent video a guy did where he ran a heavier mix 25:1 vs 50:1, and used a thermal gun to measure the external temps on the piston head and muffler. It actually ran hotter with the 25:1 mix using the same carb settings. The theory being that more oil may have provided slightly more lubrication, but as that oil burned, it left behind more contaminants (carbonization) which burns much hotter and does not get as easily expelled out the muffler in the exhaust. It ran at a higher temperature, but not enough to cause damage (except some fouling). Just a bit hotter. There's a balance needed to provide just enough lubrication, but not so much you end up with excessive fouling and excessive heat. Not enough lubrication of course, will cause excessive friction, thus the excessive heat and damage to the alloy.
I'm not buying that shit cus I logged for 11 years and the saws I used were Husqvarna 385 xp and they were made in the early 2000s I bought mine in 2001 and used it for 11 years never blew up , never took it apart until I stopped logging, that saw had no carbon build up like you'd think mixing my oil and fuel at 32:1 , !!! Yeah it had carbon on the piston but not as much as you'd think , so if you buy into that's your entitled to.
@@larrywarner9314 Oh, I don't doubt you one bit. I guess the point was that the engine, even though it has more lubrication may actually run a little hotter because of the oil that burns, since oil has more contaminants than fuel, causing temp to be a little higher. It certainly isn't enough to harm the engine though. The benefit of more lube probably outweighs the slight increase in temp.
But, if you run it with no lube, then the friction makes it so hot, it will obviously destroy the engine.
Regardless, I still break in all my 2-cycle stuff with 25:1, and run with 43:1 on just about everything.
The saw ran hotter because the 25:1 mixture has less gas and more oil than the 50:1 mix that the saw was turned for. This will cause a leaner condition thus the saw will run hotter. The 25:1 mix is more viscus so less fuel will flow through the jets. If the saw was tuned for the 25:1 fuel and then ran on the 50:1 mix with no tuning adjustment, the saw would have gone rich and would have run cooler. The outcome of the test will differ depending on what mix the saw was turned for before the test was conducted. If the saw would have been tuned properly for both fuel mixture test runs, the temps would have probably been statistically the same.
@@wayneanderson991they were adjusted with both mixes. Gotta live science
@@davediesel90 I was reffering to Condor1970's post saying that the same carb setting were used for both fuel mixes. Maybe I miss understood the post.
Your right, it is a hot topic lol! I saw a dude online (shocking right???) Arguing that 50:1 is absolute law. So comical that people fall for the epa garbage! More oil=less damage to your machines...less oil=they sell more equipment from damaged parts
Ive been running 80/100:1 for 4 years with Amsoil saber.
The moto guys understand pretty well that the jet is just an orifice, the difference in viscosity between more or less oil is what makes it flow more or less through the orifice. 40:1 and 50:1 are basically the same viscosity, it would be tough to measure, so they should perform pretty similar.
40 to 1 with Red Armor. Done.
Unburned oil at say 32.1 if tuned for it will carry heat away. 50.1 is epa driven period. Good video bud. 👍🏻 🎉
more oil=higher combustion temperature, those are the facts
@@elespe8167yeah but science and comment section don't mix 😂
You know me, I own a lot of 2 strokes. From outboards to RC’S, I run 50:1, I think you hit the nail on the head with the talk about tuning. The most important thing is to tune the motor properly for the fuel that you are running.
I have run 50 to 1 ratio of gas to oil for years. So far no problems.
40 to 1 for me. Stk or ported
Correct
Good video. But I don't need to hear this is how My mind works over and over.
Yeah me rambling!
I go by modern oil, modern mix ratio.
My dad has run 40 to 1 so I run 40 to 1 me or him have never blown up a saw with that ratio Maybe I'm wrong
40:1 for me.
I use 3¼ ounce of oil to 1 gallon of gas myself. Whatever that is