I love how Tiger Dojo, usually happy and hilarious compared to the Dead Ends, suddenly goes dead serious. It's like, there's absolutely nothing to make fun of of this one, that's how dark it is.
@@MrDibara Because once again she has lost someone she loves to the "Superhero" ideal. She and Illy are hit hard by it. Illya finally gets to see what happened to Kiritsugu. It was not pretty.
@@facundogonzalez5453 It helps I think that compared to most Bad Ends, which boils down to "you fucked up and Shirou died 'cuz you're a dummy. Stop being a dumbass and go fix this," there's really... nothing to "fix" in this ending. It's like Taiga says in this dojo: "This is one result.' To me this has never really felt like a "Bad End" like... it's a completely unhappy, dark, and cynical one... but it really feels less like "this was a bad end that lead to Shirou's doom due to making the wrong choices" and more "this is a possible outcome to the story of Shirou Emiya."
+Kevin Jimenez Archer was never heartless. Archer wanted nothing more than to wipe his existence from all facets of the multiverse, to become one with oblivion, all because he couldn't stand killing "x" number of humans to save "x * n" number of humans. That's not heartless... selfish, perhaps, but not heartless.And Kiritsugu wasn't heartless either, but rather a self-deluded moron with a martyr complex, convinced that he could shoulder the burden of his own choices, along with the consequences and grief from all of those he wronged in the process, and still consider his actions to be correct.
It says alot about this ending when even the Tiger Dojo can't make a joke out of your choice and basically goes "Nope. Not even gonna go there. Get the fuck out."
0:43 it's honestly an eye opener to me how after acknowledging what he shouldn't do but realllly wants to do (which is to protect Sakura against the odds) is a fantasy and reminding himself of his original true goal, his inner conflict ceases, his mind clears, the "gastric juice up his throat.. stomach pain.. tearful eyes" stop. He's able to function normally now, but at what cost. His old self moments ago would spit in his face, so to speak
@@lmaomax4341 So, as I heard he used Kiritsugu's methods, so he probably went for the Masters, maybe playing nice with Rin until the end of the war. He could've formed a contract with Rider since Sakura was now dead. Someone also said that this was the origin of Alter EMIYA from FGO
@@filipevilar4950 No, Emiya Alter was just the same as Archer until a certain point where his mission was to put an end to Kiara's cult. The cult members were for the most part innocent, but due to them being involved with Kiara, they were bound to die in the end, either by suicide or another existence killing them. If I remember correctly, what has made Emiya turn into an Alter and instantly become an even more broken version of the person that was originally called Emiya Shirou, was the fact that Kiara committed suicide in front of him, and also adding the fact that she forced her followers to be killed by Emiya. Now, if you understand Emiya's character, ideals and etc, it's no surprise for you that this led him to turn into someone even more cynical and broken as a person. His whole profile and conversations in FGO exposes to the player how much of a mess he's in that version.
@@ucquang5949 Yes. It's heavily implied that in this ending, possibly even without Servant, he turns into cold, pragmatic mastermind and goes Kiritsugu on everyone wining the war in the end
@@Yusei5ds0707 Technically yes. A deconstruction can be made in many forms, this is a very short way to say it but basically you take a concept destroy or fundamentaly change it's core or structure. Shirou is that with the "ideals of heroism" (one of the greatest parallels is the single minded heroism that it's potrayed mostly in Shonen protagonist, but that's just the root, he goes beyond that), they take that concept and take it to the extreme by making the question "what it takes to make a guy sacrifice himself so selflessly" and end uo creating this broken little man. It may not be a super-intelectual way to make it but the deepth of Shirou's mind come from the way the narrative is told by this 3 routes and all the endings: how this broken mind can take so many different paths when it's exposed to different scenarios and choices, how the other people can change the view of the world, the people, ourselves and our ideals. It may not be a complex reading, but the many ways that his mind (the one we spend almost ALL THE TIME reading in the VN in order to understand Shirou as a person on an even deeper level) is explored, and the amount of time that we spend doing that gives it such complexity, the narrative makes it that way.
Shirou is not a deconstruction of the idealistic hero. That's Spider-Man. Maybe John McClane. Shirou is a thoughtful analysis on the single-minded mentality of your typical Japanese manga protagonist, whose encompassing traits and determination make their character. I say he isn't a deconstruction due to the fact that while the theme of the story does explore the consequences through all three routes (Frame, Exploration and Threshold, respectively), those same traits are STILL what drives the story towards a result instead of laying them picked apart. A deconstruction would break down those traits one by one and offer a counterpoint as a solution to the thematic problem as far as the story goes. Shirou's an analysis and a criticism, but he's not a deconstruction because those same traits STILL push his role through the story.
@@Sizdothyx What you say definitely has a lot of thought put on it and certainly makes a lot of sense (I also appreciate you responding in a respectful way, I rarely come across anything like that). Even so, and although I agree witha lot of points you mention, I would still say that Shirou is a deconstruction of not only the mind of the average manga protagonist but also of the hero's idealism, this is going to be long and at first it would seem I'm only repeating what the story already told and that I'm going nowhere, but trust me I have a point at the end and I would be glad if you hear me, you don't have to agree with me but that'what I think (english is not my native language so I apologize for possible mistakes). Although he does not propose in a very definite way an alternative to what it would be to embody the ideal of a hero, he does challenge and break the principle that forms this ideal, emphasizing that despite the ideal of "fighting and sacrificing for others" it may be a nice way of thinking, it is still an irrational idea and it will never be pursued with the true aim of good and the satisfaction of others, at least not directly, the achievement of that goal only seeks to complete a part of the individual who embodies it. I know it seems like a simple observation and acceptance of what that idea already is, and I understand why it may seem like that, even so, Shirou in UBW does not end up becoming the Heroic Spirit EMIYA since although his ideal seems to be the "same", the perception of this changes, and if there is one thing that Fate believes in, it is how perceptions, circumstances and points of view can change many things, and this because Shirou's perception of his ideal at the beginning of the story (and one that is taking shape in the Fate Route) is definitely different during the course and end of the UBW Route, now with more ambiguity of who should be saved (respecting the own wishes of others as in the case of Kuzuki and his death) and how he approaches his way of facing the risks that following his ideal implies (reflected in the 2 times he tries to face Gilgamesh, first with Illya and then in his battle and how during the route he is willing to collaborate with others or put himself in the front line depending on his opportunities) and definitely with a little more cynicism to his own inheriting ideal somewhat the perception that Archer has given him, coming to call himself a hypocrite for following the path of an ideal that is too utopian and false by recognizing that the desire of his being is not truly born of the desire for the good of others, but seeks to appease his own internal suffering and please the goal unfulfilled by his deceased father, even more retaining some of his determination that this purpose can still bring happiness to other people and also in c In consequence, again I know that it seems this just seems like a realization and that it doesn't really change anything, but the reason that Shirou has so many internal monologues is to see how his thoughts and desires often differ from his actions, that what he is internally and How he perceives things, although his actions do not change much if he eventually ends up affecting the kind of person he becomes, and in the same way, although his ideal does not demonstrate changes big enough to be called significant from an external perspective, it does change the core of how Shirou perceives and persues them and in the same way, despite the fact that externally Although his ideal does not demonstrate changes too great to be called significant, it does change the core of how Shirou perceives them and in the same way, despite the fact that externally they are not represented in a very notorious way, they do demarcate the kind of path that Shirou will continue and at least I feel that he always lets himself be seen as he approaches situations in an increasingly different way according to how he perceives his ideal during the UBW Route, however I think that the true answer that history gives us regarding the issue of Heroism does not reach the third route. Yes, I firmly believe that Heaven's Feel is the definitive answer to the question posed by history of how to carry out an ideal of heroism and become a hero on the way, and I think the answer is quite clear: the ideal of Heroism is not unshakable or immutable and highly dependent on circumstances. While it is obvious that in HF Shirou "betrays his ideal", I would not say that he completely abandons his desire to fight for the happiness of others, but that his number has simply been reduced to his loved ones, or rather to whom his heart decides for the moment, it is well reflected as the story even though Shirou stops following the path of the "Hero of Justice" he continues to present him as a hero (with special emphasis on the CG presented after the fight with Berseker), and although it could be argued that this is simply "Well, obviously they are going to make the protagonist look badass", and although in part it is true, I would say most of his decisions and actions taken are the ones most loaded with a genuine feeling of concern for the Others, for whom he fights, where the only regret he has is not being able to carry out his dream, but it is here when he shows his side, let's say, more "selfish", it is when he ironically proves to be more disinterested and able to connect with others, even being willing to take secondary roles and back off on certain situations by having a better understanding of those who surround. In the end of "mind of steel" where he basically betrays everyone by refusing to betray his ideal, he manages to win the war and although his ideal has the same basis as on the other routes, it ends up destroying his goodness, and where before found a beautiful ideal is replaced by a cold one, despite being the same in principle. The deconstruction of this ideal comes not only in the true endings of the story, but also in the course of this, seeing how they mutate little by little, and of course in the bad endings, showing not only how the same ideal has different effects depending on the reason that motivates it, the way they are perceived, the way they are executed and the circumstances in which they are found. Basically history tells us that there is no definitive ideal of heroism, that the same one that can save many and give happiness can destroy us as a person or be abandoned, and that depending on the aforementioned factors it can direct whoever persecutes it in different ways. directions, but mainly this ideal should never remain unchanged, since it always evolves, changes or is destroyed, and that there is no person, not even Shirou, who can carry the weight of that ideal in every possible scenario and eventually something must change, something must give, something must be broken or ideal and person will be destroyed. it is here when he shows his side, let's say, more "selfish", it is when he ironically proves to be more disinterested and able to connect with others, even being willing to take more minor roles and back off in certain situations by having a better understanding of those who surround. In the end of "mind of steel" where he basically betrays everyone by refusing to betray his ideal, he manages to win the war and although his ideal has the same basis as on the other routes, it ends up destroying his goodness, and where before found a beautiful ideal is replaced by a cold one, despite being the same in principle. The deconstruction of this ideal comes not only in the true endings of the story, but also in the course of this, seeing how they mutate little by little, and of course in the bad endings, showing not only how the same ideal has different effects depending on the reason that motivates it, the way they are perceived, the way they are executed and the circumstances in which they are found. Basically history tells us that there is no definitive ideal of heroism, that the same one that can save many and give happiness can destroy us as a person or be abandoned, and that depending on the aforementioned factors it can direct whoever persecutes it in different ways. directions, but mainly this ideal should never remain unchanged, since it always evolves, changes or is destroyed, and that there is no person, not even Shirou, who can carry the weight of that ideal in every possible scenario and eventually something must change, something must give, something must be broken or ideal and person will be destroyed. In conclusion, I think that what is proposed is that the ideal of heroism can be beautiful, it can even inspire others to save lives, but it is not unshakable, and the people who persecute it are not unshakable either, and depending on the circumstances it can bring us completely different endings. The Fate of Shirou Emiya is to pursue the ideal of the Hero of Justice, but that Fate does not promise any sure end, neither happy nor bad, that is why there is beauty in the 3 endings raised where apparently they are the best possible scenarios for Shirou in the search to fulfill his dream. Ok that was all, if you read all this I can only thank you, I think that is all I have to say about it, or at least the only way to put it (I am not very good at this, I know , and doing it in English was even more difficult). If you still disagree with me it is completely understandable and I will be happy to read what you have to say, but I think that is the best way I could deal with the subject without going further than I already did. I firmly believe in everything I have said and it is in your hands whether to take it into consideration or not, I do not think I will be able to say more to convince you, I can argue and deepen certain ideas that I mentioned but I think that in general is all I had to say about it, I thank you in advance and say goodbye.
So, I just passed by here again after a number of years, and there's something I've noticed no one pointing out. Sakura herself is fine with dying here. If she hears Shirou say he wants her to live, she'll escape and live for him. If she doesn't hear that, she lets herself be killed. Just a reminder that Sakura herself had a choice in all of this as well.
You know what probably makes this even more tragic? When Kotomine implies that Shirou and Rin will be at odds in the end. Even though she was so stupidly stubborn on being "the cold, calculating Magus", the fact is that Rin loves the hell out of Sakura and doesn't realize how much that love (and the guilt she feels for not protecting her) weights on her until it's pretty much too late. Which in this scenario, happens sadly after she killed her. Now picture Tohsaka Rin, once rational and calculating, suddenly going mad with grief and despair, not too different from when Kiritsugu had to kill Natalia. Yeah, you can see where this is going. Rin will try to use the Holy Grail to revive Sakura. She's not Kiritsugu, she doesn't actually have it in her to "do whatever it takes for your ideals" and live on like he did. She'll break down. Completely. Mind, body and soul. It's a little ironic. She, who originally only fought "to win", would now actually have a wish for the Grail. And who can blame her? She failed Sakura so much their entire lives. And she knows that. So, given how actually emotional and fragile Rin is, it's not hard picturing her wanting to ressurect Sakura, free from Zouken's clutches. She would've wanted to fix everything she should've done right and did wrong. But remember Kotomine's other ominous foreshadowing?. *when you learn the true nature of the Holy Grail.* Yup! Our dear and beloved friend Angry Matthew still in there, corrupting the Greater Grail. Which pretty much means zero chances of any wish getting actually granted. And that's when Rin and Mind of Steel Shirou will clash. Even if she learns this, Rin will probably still try to use the Grail for the slightest of chances that it might grant her her wish. Remember, she won't be the calculating and rational Rin from before, she'll now be lost in grief and despair, willing to bet everything for the sister she failed. Shirou, on the other hand, has probably become even worse than Kiritsugu at this point. Full pragmatism and rationality and no humanity or feelings. If he was willing to let his beloved be killed for "what is right", killing her killer won't be an issue. Especially if she's about to do something as reckless as risking the release of All The World's Evils. Him turning on her is only obvious. The sad thing? She probably won't see it coming. We all know how easy a target Rin is when she loses composure and control of the situation. Just imagine her after throwing reason to the wind all to bring back Sakura. Rin is just not herself when shock and emotions have overtaken her, she won't be as analytical and perceptive as she was before. And that's when Shirou will kill her. Betraying her when she was at her most vulnerable. She won't see Shirou's betrayal coming. And imagine how heartwrentched she'll be as she lays dying. Damn! I can even picture her surviving long enough to witness Shirou destroying the Grail right in front of her! Now wouldn't that make Kayneth's death look simple by comparison?!
Lots of people here in the comments seem to be totally misunderstanding the meaning of the actual fate story. It's about what a hero is. In the fate route we're being introduced to the holy grail war and the meaning of being a hero as Emiya Kiritsugu saw it. Kill a few people to save more people. Sacrifice your own life for lots of people you don't even know about. Kill few to save the masses. Kill the weak to save the strong. In UBW he gets to the conclusion of this with archer and where his wish comes from. But heavens feel is the answer to being a hero. It's not about killing always a few to save lots of people you don't know. In the authors point of view a hero is someone who protects those he loves dearly with everything he got. Be it his friends like Ilya or Rin or his lover like Sakura.. And he fights for it. Shirou changed his point of view about that after meeting Sakura. And he tried to protect what he loved even as his future self denied his new found motivation - turning his bodies to swords (which is also somewhat of an allegory that he is only a sword that is being used but not the wielder. "I am the bone of my sword" The more he fought for Sakura against Kirei the more his body turned to swords because he abandoned what he lived for in the beginning. But that wish was never his as we learned in ubw. In heavens feel he finally found a motivation to fight for himself. To protect the ones he loves. So llyas reaction for this ending is really the best ""I pity you, Shirou. You're going to be deceiving yourself forever with that crying face of yours." Because this "superhero" doesn't make him happy. And not even the world will thank him for that. Nope instead the world will kill him and he will die like Archer died.
Gisol And this is why i love Ichigo Kurosaki's character from Bleach, he came to that conclusion in ep 3 or so (not saying Bleach is better in any way, shape , or form (the anime and manga could've been done so, so, soooooooo much better, but allas....) just saying i like how that ideal was presented there
Gisol >Kill the weak to protect the Strong. No, is more like kill the Strong who is a danger to several Weak. Is literally the oposite of Social darwinism.
Kazuya Prota the ideal is exactly as you say it That's pretty much the idea behind it. However concepts are often enough far away from reality. Communism for example used to be a great ideal for the sake and the good of the masses as well. The initial idea wasn't even bad, however the concept just didn't stand against the harsh reality. So Kiritsugu's idea was pretty much: Kill the few big bad guys suppressing the many weak people out there. Classic Shonen Hero. However Fate turned it somewhat the other way around. As you can see with the case of Sakura who was basically neither really strong nor evil, but would have to be killed by Shirou to protect other people. She was basically too weak to endure her life and got mad. The "hero" would then kill her in her weakness to protect the many other people. Or Kiritsugu who killed Natalie in the plane or would have killed Illya and Irisviel if he could save more people with it. They weren't strong and evil at all. No classic villains threatening poor townsfolks. However they were the reason why many people might have died. Fate pretty much perverted the classic superhero idea of killing the few villains to save many people and lets it look like the hero is one cruel heartless bastard for doing so. It's showing not always the strong ones are causing trouble and just killing the people that are endangering the masses off does not really seem that heroic. And in the last route Natsu showed us what in his opinion a real hero is. Not the superman hero, Goku or whatever, but the one trying their everything to save and help their beloved ones. Not the famous hero, but our next one can be our hero and we can be the hero for the person next to us. I think it's a pretty cool and different take on the whole Shonen Genre, don't you think?^^
Gisol Kiritsugu was a utilitarian, he know who he was killing people, he know Who others will dislike him. >And in the last route Natsu showed us what in his opinion a real hero is. Not the superman hero, Goku or whatever, but the one trying their everything to save and help their beloved ones. Not the famous hero, but our next one can be our hero and we can be the hero for the person next to us. That is a very short sight, is someone doing things for his own happyness, is just Another human. And no, Shirou is not the hero of the common people, he literally priorizated his waifu Sakura over the lifes of others. That is the definition of selfisnesh. And Nasu Act like this is good becausd Muh Existencialism
Yeah, HF Shirou is very selfish. He let hundreds of people die for Sakura, but I'm pretty sure HF Shirou was supposed to be presented as an equally valid conclusion to Fate and UBW. Can you say you'd be any different though? Shirou in Heaven's Feel is meant to be the most relatable to the audience because of his selfishness. Most people wouldn't sacrifice their loved ones to save a bunch of strangers. It's not ideal (heh), but we live in a real world.
RIN:"- - Aren't you going to stop me, Emiya-kun?" RIN: "So you won't mind even if I kill Sakura?" RIN: "Wait, you seriously won't?!" RIN: "Emiya-kun, if you haven't heard me, I'm going to kill your girlfriend" RIN: "Gonna kill her any moment now, UNLESS someone's going to stop me, Emiya-kun" RIN: "Emiya-kun I am already armed and dangerous, I am the embodiment of the act of sororicide" RIN: "ARGH!!! I'm on my wits' end! Negotiations are going *nowhere*!" SHIROU: "These were negotiations? I thought we were just having a talk!" RIN: "Oh, why won't you stop me from killing Sakura?!"
To be fair, the FGO version and other variations tend to lean so much into this aspect of her, when her mage-like self also comes from the fact that she's also a pre mechanical person a lot of times too
I am the bone of my sword. Steel is my mind And fire my blood. I have overcome countless battlefields, Not even once retreating Not even once showing mercy. I was always alone, searching for a answer upon the hill of swords. In the end, that answer held no meaning. This body could only be made of swords. Stolen from somewhere else
GohanLSSJ2 1: If only.. 2: That's Prisma Ilya's optimism as an innocent little girl. Shirou is an adult and a magus and knows that is too unrealistic to even attempt.
Not quite... He only reached this conclussion from Kotomine's manipulations and his lack of fotesight. He traced Rule Breaker very early on the story, when he still had Saber. He could have very well used it in advance to break Sakura of the bond with Angra Mainyu BEFORE she could fall to the Dark Side. Hell, I bet Rule Breaker could have saved Saber, too, considering she was also controlled by Sakura AND corrupted by Angra Mainyu.
GohanLSSJ2 Thing is he wasn't actually able to project Noble Phantasms in this route until much later. I think his first time doing that in HF was in his fight with Berserker? Also he didn't know shit about Angra Mainyu until it was too late. He found out (or rather acknowledged the fact) that Sakura was linked to the Shadow towards the end of the route, but even then he didn't know anything about Angra Mainyu yet. The same kinda applies to Saber since he didn't even know what was going on the first time he saw her Alter form in the forest. Plus Rule Breaker nullifies contracts and while that is effective on Servants it probably wouldn't help Sakura since it's not like she has a contract with Angra Mainyu or anything. For some reason Shirou never ever considered using Rule Breaker in any of the routes despite him tracing it in all three. Even if he did I'm not sure how effective it would be in his hands since normally speaking he wouldn't even be able to scratch Saber. His only chance would be to do it as the final step of Archer's Divine Skill (the one he used during Spark Liner High) instead of slashing Saber with Kanshou and Bakuya. But even then that would mean breaking his mind since using that technique requires him going past his limits and drawing out too much from Archer's arm. Otherwise Saber would simply murder him before he could even get close.
@@JokerShiranui Actually, Sakura's link to "Angry Matthew" is a contract in a way, albeit one done without her knowledge. It's why Shirou's Rule Breaker is able to save Sakura later on, effectively denying Angra of any host. But yeah, it's a shame he didn't learn about his Projection Magecraft any sooner. If he did, he might even have tried to use Rule Breaker to heal Sakura from the Crest Worms. _(which would've been a big fuck you to Zouken)_ XD But yeah, in this route, he neither learns that nor acquires it in a more or less natural way. He literally has that power and knowledge *forced into him.* And that slowly destroys him from the inside. Huh! Is it just me or does that sound a little similar to how Sakura was "taught" Magecraft by Zouken? Even the risk of death is present!
MrDibara Which actually all just makes me wonder why Archer just simply didn't do it... He seemed to realize what was going on fairly quickly after meeting the Shadow and projecting Rule Breaker (or at the very least teaching Shirou how to do so) would've been a cinch for him. He didn't die until much later in the story too, so I feel like he simply could've easily solved all the HF problems before things went too far. He also could've gone the Iskandar route from the FZ FGO event and simply completely fuck Zouken over, freeing Sakura from the worms and Angra with Rule Breaker and then proceeding to burn his house (and all his "backup worms") down to the ground along with him in it.
It is a sad end, but i don't know if it is a bad one, personally i think the most beautiful ending is the NormalEnd to Heavens Feel where Shirou is gone, even though it may be the saddest of the true endings, and this ending has a bit of the same feel to it, I really wish they hadn't scrapped mind of steel, that could have made a truly beautiful yet sad ending.
@TheMegaUzumaki No, that´s not true, fate grand order, Sheraph, there it is told that is fault of Kiara, 3º beast of the grail. In that timeline, he is a hero of justice, as he wanted, but due to her, he is forced to kill innocents, i think hundred of them, that destroyed him, and the scars, i am not sure if it is for the battle he had with her or another reason
@@nawedhasan9912 This is mere speculation, nothing more. Mind of Steel Shirou won't end up like EMIYA or EMIYA Alter. EMIYA is practically the same as EMIYA Alter, but his altered version met with Kiara. Nothing more.
@@facundogonzalez5453 1. Is Kiara Sessyoin not Kairi Sisigou 2. You're wrong, EMIYA comes from a Fate route like world where he couldn't save Saber's heart, this is different
@@armandomendoza7371 No. Here he goes full Kiritsugu. And yes I know the nature of EMIYA. But in this Route is the same. Instead of not saving Saber, he rejects Sakura.
@@armandomendoza7371 I've read somewhere that the simple description about Emiya being a failed Fate route is actually inaccurate. @facundogonzalez5453 is nearly right but there's still a little misunderstanding.
This actually had the potential to become some kind of heartless route, with no heroines, just an edgy Shirou, it would be pretty cool. It would probably had a sad ending, but i would like to read it
I can picture shirou ending up killing rin/illya and zouken , end up destroying the holy grail and after that trying to become the most powerfull being to stop all magus around the world to do any harms to simple civilians
@@Quanbe77 Shirou can't win this war, Rin has still Archer and you know Archer was still itching to kill Shirou. Also Medusa will kill anyone who would want to harm Sakura. Gilgamesh is still around but he's different from the Saber and Rin's route Gil where he wants Angra Mainyu to be released. Let's not forget about Sakura's ultimate pawn which is Saber who can spams her NP because of Sakura's infinite mana supply. So Shirou can't win in this war unless if he had a plot armor in this bad end.
"Q: BAD END 30. In the original game, Kotomine declares that Shirou will decide to kill Zouken, Illya and Rin to survive until the end. How does he go about killing all three of them? N: With how weaklings stand in mind, and with disregard to personal safety, he spares nothing engaging in one kill per person. He basically creates "if i can swing things into this situation there is a 1 (Shirou) to 9 (Opponent) chance of winning, and a loss is instant death." situations and survives till the end."
That was said in a Q&A. The English translation is implying that he'll survive the war, whereas in the Japanese one, it's more implied that he'll almost survive till the end then die, probably after killing everybody.
I hope ufotable makes an special regarding this ending. I can't even begin to imagine how dark, depressing will be the victory of this Shirou Archer would see not only that he failed in his retgone, but has to see the birth of something far worse than himself. And after he wins... What kind of atrocities would he do? I hope there is a fanfic out there worthy of becoming an animation
You'd think that, until you actually see the real implication here and forget Kotomine is smiling all throughout the ending. It's a bad end for a reason. Sometimes doing the "right" thing is not so right.
I always appreciated this ending... Seems a bit more likely to happen given who Shirou is. Though, it makes one wonder how things would have played out had he been the one to kill Sakura instead of Rin.
Sorry, but I'm gonna have to stick with the original ending in that regard. "There's no need to talk about the obvious outcome. Emiya Shirou will turn his mind to steel, and become a superhero."
Actually, you're a little off on that. Shirou's Ideal was "To save everyone and never let anyone die". Therefore, either option, whether it was to kill Sakura, or let her run wild and wreak havoc, would have violated his ideal. Therefore, in the end it was a matter of whether Shirou was willing to sacrifice the one he loved over the masses or keep is waifu alive at the sacrifice of everyone else.
Shirou does not count Magus among the people he should save.Hell it is reinforced to us that Shirou is ready to kill the masters in this holy grail war. The thing he did not account for that masters are people he knows of that is why he gets into a conflict with his ideals if the maguses in the holy grail war were nobody's to him he would have killed them in cold blood. That is because of how Shirou was taught "To be a magus is to walk with the death" as such he does not see magus among the people he wants to make happy by saving them to him they agreed they can die in any point once they became a magus.
Hate to say it. But this is my favourite ending. It is TRAGIC. Not exactly horrible, Femme Fatale is Horrible. But Mind of Steel is the most tragic one. Because there is nothing "Horrifying" in it. It is simply Shirou giving into his ideals. What makes this specially horrible for Ilya and Taiga. Is that this can TOTALLY happen outside of the Routes, and as Archer proves, it is Shirou's ending. It fact Archer exists because Shirou does not fall in love and gives up all of his connections. In some way, this is Archer's Ending. And not something Illya or Taiga can advise against. That is the gut punch. There is really nothing "wrong" with this ending. You stop the end of the world. Something that fits a "Hero" and that is Shirou's dream.
@@thirdplanet4471 Archer Emiya. It is HEAVILY implied that he DID kill Sakura in his timeline. Not in this situation, but he did kill her. That probably helped to break his relationship with Rin, which seemed to be rather distant by that point.
@@facundogonzalez5453 According to the wiki Emiya alter got screwed over by Kiara and killing innocents. But ultimately, things get really confusing trying to pin point events when it comes to all the alternate CG emiyas and their journeys. I'm gonna throw in the tunnel when it comes to him but thanks for added info.
I still like how that the archive LP describes this being a bad ending. "Maybe for unusually awesome definitions of 'bad'." Like yeah this isn't a happy ending for anyone, but it's cool as fuck.
this shouldve got the same treatment as Sparks Liner High where it's still a bad ending and it has a tiger dojo, but it just says 'END' instead of 'BAD END' like the normal ending
Igor The Red Don’t have the interview on hand, but from what I remember shirou win in a “The best he ever will be” kind of way but then die due to how hard he had to work.
Interview Q (Hero of Justice): BAD END 30 in the original game (which fans (JP) call the “Ironhearted END”), Kotomine declares that Shirou will decide to kill Zouken, Illya and Rin to survive until the end. How does he go about killing the three of them? N: With how weaklings stand in mind, and with disregard to their personal safety, he spares nothing and engages in one kill per person. He basically creates “if I can swing things into this situation, there is a 1 (Shirou) to 9 (opponent) chance of winning, and a loss is instant death” situations and survives until the end.
0:51 This is the problem with Archer. He threw away everything in pursuit of his ideals, everything he was and could have been. Everything he could have had, lost. He gave up everything for people he doesn't even know or has heard of. Giving up everything for a bunch of nameless faces while you've already lost the named ones. What constitutes as 'everyone?' Everyone in your town? Everyone in your school? Neighborhood? You're peer group? Club? _Who is 'everyone?'_ You want to help people even though you clearly don't care about them? You might as well be trying to put air in a bottle.
The problem with archer wasn't his ideal. The problem was he didn't know why he wanted to save people. He simply tried to blindly do it not realizing it was just a cover for his own empty heart. And when he realized that it was too late. And he could not accomplish it to begin with. Archer never regretted the ideal he wanted to accomplish. He regretted that it was an impossible wish by a person who was fundamentally broken and could not make up their own happiness with something like that alone. This is why all 3 shirous of fsn surpass archer. They found their reason to continue and live for themselves.
@@MrInuhanyou123One thing I'm having issues with in regard to shiro and archer is reconciling their recklessness with the ideal. Nasu will have shirou break himself for his ideals and others will call him out on it but they let him do what he wants anyway and even when he finds his own reasons to pursue the ideal he is still reckless. He has to be saved by avalon or learn from archer otherwise he would be a goner and he is pretty much punished for pursuing his ideals. It also doesnt help that nasu tends to highlight tragedy to an overexaggerated degree by having archer get betrayed by those he saved and making him a cg and he hated offing innocents for all eternity across multiple timelines so much he went back in time to dissuade or off his younger self but he quits at the end and doubles down on his ideals and shirou ignores archers warning but he won't regret his idelas of he walks down that path. Some say ubw toned it down but to me it seems he doubled down even more and if he becones archer he won't regret it. Hf shirou literally dies at routes end and tho some say he gave up his idelas I interpret it as him reprioritising to be a hero for sakura than others. Also, nasu doesn't always highlight the good that shirou and archer do so its even harder to support him. Maybe its because his ideals are about helping people but if it was about destroying people then the conversation may be different. I just wish he would tone down the recklessness and we saw him do more good than harm. Also, I wish he and majority of nasuverse got good therapy
@@auraenhancergaming8860 that's kind of the point I feel. Shirou is clumsily living life in a way which brings pain to himself, but that's the bittersweet nature of it, because in best case scenario he finds pride in that even if it's not something he finds fun or enjoyable. Arturia and shirou are soul mates because quite honestly they would be much happier being normal and relatively selfish people. That's the point of Castoria in lb6 and fate route. In fate route, both shirou and arturia are initially slaves to their own guilt punishing themselves through self imposed elimination. But through wanting more for the other, they are able to moderate each others behavior and in the end become each others ultimate salvation. By the end of the route they both secretly had temptations to live a normal life. But felt how they both did things beyond their own selfish wants was something to be admired and protected
I “like” to think that in this ending Rin isn’t capable of killing Sakura as in the True or normal ending, so she ends up protecting her, however Shirou has already made his decision, and you know the rest…
Tony Young Actually, Archer is not based on any of the three routes, and in fact, Shirou literally stands no chance of becoming Archer in HF because his mindset is way too different. Fate Shirou has the highest chance of becoming Archer, but ultimately, Archer and his past is based off the unused Illya Route.
BoneBeastKimimaro well archer always do what shirou did in this bad ending. kill the one person to save the many. if a hero and a villian did something that kills alot of people then archer would kill both hero and villian. that is why shirou decided to kill everyone in the grill war including rin to save the world.
That's the path Kiritsugu once chose. You can see how it ended with him having to kill someone who was like a mother to him and sacrifice his wife and daughter and him losing everyone he loved. If it were not for Shirou he would have been a broken man probably killing himself in the end. Shirou doesn't have anyone he can cling on to...he will prolly kill himself
@@_im_stupid_ Okay, but him rationalizing away saving the few by ignoring the many is as likely to make him commit suicide. Like what will he do if people find out and the relatives of the killed seek out Sakura? This entire exercise is fruitless if you're talking about creating immense guilt.
+Visitormassacre At this point, Shirou doesn't know about how Sakura will turn out. She could end up destroying the entire world. He sacrifices one person to save the world. If Kiritsugu didn't do what he did, what do you think will happen to the world? The Grail would have fulfilled his wish and destroy the world until only he and his family are left. It's selfishness. He could save Sakura, but he's risking the entire world on the line.
Visitormassacre Paid off, depending on the situation, like if Kiritsugu has chosen the ones he loves over everyone else on Earth, Shirou wouldn't even exist to make this decision. As Shirou, you don't know how the result will turn out at this point, we as a player chooses to save Sakura because it's a game and we know that the story can only unfolded in a good way at the end. Nasu is not Urobutcher, so he's not too keen on tragedy. As Shirou, he has no idea how it would turn out if Sakura is kept alive. It's better to kill Sakura to prevent her from growing and destroying the world. This is why I hate Shirou and like Kiritsugu. They are not hypocrites, and their resolve allows them to make tough choices.
Visitormassacre It's basically sacrifice the few to save the many. What would happen to Shirou if Sakura turned into Shirley? If Shirou failed to stop Sakura, she could have end up destroying everyone. Basically because you value the few, you put the many at risks. Do you think Shirou could have kept his sanity if he failed? In the bad end where Saber is alive, Shirou's mind was basically break when he sees Sakura tortures RIn. Shirou didn't turn into Kiritsugu simply because he wasn't faced with the reality where everyone was killed due to his mistakes. Yes, you killed many, but you also saved many. At the end of the other scales, more bad guys were killed, so you're a superhero to the ones you choose to save. If it wasn't for Kiritsugu, there wouldn't be Shirou to make this choice. You think Kiritsugu should have chosen the Grail instead or something? You think if it was Shirou in Kiritsugu's position, he would be right to sacrifice everyone on Earth for Sakura? Kiritsugu is a hero because he can make tough choices, even at the cost of his own happiness. He makes choices that an average man wouldn't be able to make.
Visitormassacre No, that choice happens because Shirou decides to spare Saber, allowing Saber to come back and help Sakura fight off Rin. Once again, it shows that because Shirou chooses to side with the people he loves, he ends up losing everything. As good and bad are relative, it's up to the people who you side with, and if you think of yourself as hero of justice, you would side against the people you think as "bad: and save who you deem as good, in the end, people would be saved, better than prolonging the conflicts and more people from both sides would be killed. Kiritisugu killed the ones he love, his "mother", so I doubt he thinks the world as black and white. Going back to Kiritsugu's decisions, it was all based on the logic of killing the few to save the many, and whenever he chooses to spare someone, it ends up biting him in the ass. He chooses to spare Shirley, she ends up destroying the island, he chooses to evacuate the hotel, the master got away. By allowing emotions got in the way, he allows more people to be killed as a result.
Visitormassacre That was the last bad end where Saber is already down. The choice to interfere leads to a different End. It's easiest for Kiritsugu to kill his "mom"?
So for Shirou to have won either Gilgamesh decided to help him win for the lulz or more darkly he used his existing friendships to get close to the masters like Rin and kill them when their guards were down. Then again he'd still need help with killing Zoukens servant.
I honestly believe this is a better ending than the Normal End. Better for Sakura to die than to live as an empty shell wasting away and deceiving herself all her life. At least it's honest and the suffering ends here. I am truly sad this isn't the way to get the Normal End. Well, this or Sparks Liner High. The Normal Ending is so cruel to Sakura I can't stand it.
@@ZambonieDude Yes, and I believe this is a better ending than the normal ending and I wish the normal end would've been bittersweet this way instead of just stirahgt-up suffering for all parties.
Don't you think this end is like Shirou's version of HF normal end? Shirou did become a hero of justice just like he wanted, but at the same time he's deceiving himself too. Like Illya said at the start of this ending. Also its said that Shirou kills Rin,Illyaa,and Zouken in this end. He probably have no trace of humanity left in him after the war, having let Sakura died, and killed both Rin and Ilya.
Tiger Dojo is so quiet, because both Taiga and Illya.... have really nothing to say. There is no "one mistake" this IS Shirou's future if he does not find something to keep him grounded.
This is the best ending. Every moment of Sakura's existence means people will die. People who matter, people who don't. People who have loved ones, people who are alone. In a sample of 100 people eaten by Sakura at least one of them will have others who cry so hard their tears turn to blood over the fact that they're dead. This is the correct route.
Judging by the fact that he's saying this is a good ending, I don't think he would choose his significant other in that scenario. This entire ending is one giant slippery slope fallacy, as is the grail's vision to Kiritsugu.
Well, so far I don't think she's actually killed anyone. Correct me if I'm wrong though. And there are a whole lot of options that Shirou could have gone through that would have very likely allowed pretty much everyone to stay alive. For instance, although he didn't know that Archer could do it, Archer could have severed Sakura's connection with the Shadow, and very like with Zouken as well, via Rule Breaker. And even though Shirou didn't know this at the time, he could have still asked Archer if he has any method of potentially saving her. And although Archer doesn't know much about the Shadow at this point, he still knows about Zouken, or could learn about Zouken's connection with Sakura and think "Rule Breaker could probably do something about that" and that would have fixed the entire thing without either Sakura, or innocent civilians dying. I'll admit though that out of the endings in Heaven's Feel, this is a better one for the world as a whole, Shirou himself might not be in the best situation, but for everyone else it is. At least for the Heaven's Feel routes. The Fate and UBW Routes might be a bit better for pretty much everyone though.
Because, unlike Garcher, Alter EMIYA doesn’t have the slightest sense of humanity or kindness, he would kill even someone who was good to him if it was necessary to reach the "greater good", just like Shiro from this ending, which I personally I don't consider it that bad.
So... Is this technically how EMIYA Alter comes into existence? Like, the natural birth of an Alter? Not any sort of corruption or anything, just... Literally one "wrong" choice, and he's now on the path to becoming an Alter.
Shirou still wins the Holy Grail War? Hasn't he lost Saber at this point, though? With what tool will he win the War? Rin still has Archer, and Illya still has Berserker. Does Shirou make a contract with Rider or something? As much as he wants to be, Shirou is not Kiritsugu. Additionally, at this point in the story, Shirou can't use his Projection magic (nor realized that it's his true strength) like he does a bit in Fate and heavily in Unlimited Blade Works. Between True Assassin, Archer, and Berserker, I'm not sure who would actually win. Archer and Berserker are immensely powerful, and True Assassin is only held off by Rider, and killed by Kirei (who no longer has a reason to interfere).
with lies and deception he can lure his allies and assasinate them when they least suspect. He will use any means necesary to win the war and end it, just like kiritsugu did
jedimasterpickle3 True assassin is only held off by rider?No the only reason he beat saber and lancer is because Sakura's shadow helped him.When saber was trapped she still was able stop his NP.true assassin is generally the weakest servant in the 5th grail war.
Well, Shirou might not have a Servant, but he can still assassinate the least powerful Masters or at least the ones who are less expecting a backstab. He could be waiting in the shadows to see what happens, then make his move to finish everything. Or... it could go like this: (please, indulge in my imagination) I can see Shirou still remaining an ally to Rin, even though he's not a Master, because he simply can't stand still knowing the Holy Grail War may cause countless casualties before it ends. Rin, of course, doesn't agree with Shirou's actions, but she'll eventually concede and accept his help because, since he won't stop at all, at least she can keep an eye on him and protect him. Plus, having just killed Sakura, whom she loved very much despite not revealing it, her mind must be too focused on getting the Holy Grail and wishing her back to life to notice anything odd with Shirou. Archer might notice something, but Shirou can always goad Rin to submit him with a Command Spell. And with no Caster around with Rule Breaker, Archer can't betray Rin this time. During this time of alliance, Rin will have the time needed to teach Shirou about his true magic and how to use it, which will end up proving not only useful for their fight, but vital for the eventual outcome. Rin and Archer could fight Berserker head on, while Shirou sneaks around and kills Illya when Berserker is too pressed to come and rescue her in time. Granted, Berserker would not fade away instantly, but Archer can hold him off until he does. Rin knows nothing about Shirou having being close to Illya once, so she doesn't suspect his willingness to do this. (though Archer might actually try to kill him for it) >;P Zouken only has True Assassin now that he lost Sakura, so he just basically lost this Grail War ugly. (so much for all that scheming...) Needless to say, Archer can easily kill True Assassin now that he has no Shadow to back him up, plus Archer doesn't fight like a regular hero so Assassin has a tougher time trying to counter him. They might not be able to kill Zouken, but just by eliminating True Assassin, he is out of the War for good. The only real problem I see is Gilgamesh. He too is still around during this time and I don't know how exactly they could've countered him. Archer, unlike Shirou in UBW, is still a Servant and Gil knows that, so he's not gonna drop his guard as much as he did during UBW. If anyone can come up with a way this trio could overcome him, be my guess. :P Aaaaaand, to wrap it all up... after dealing with all these opponents, not necessarily in this order, Rin finally thinks she can bring Sakura back to life using the Holy Grail, *until she's stabbed in the back by Shirou.* You see, as long as the Holy Grail exists, there will be another Holy Grail War. And as such, another possibility of disasters happening. Such as the fire 10 years ago. Shirou can't let that happen. Rin is too lost in her sorrow to be dealt with reason. Or that's what he thinks. She is so obssessed with reviving Sakura and making ammends with her sister for abandoning and killing her that she will not listen to Shirou's reason. She will not stop. She has to die. Archer, being held back by the Command Spell, cannot stop him. And even if he could, would he? The "Holy Grail" is a threat against humanity and, being a Counter-Guardian, Archer couldn't just let it exist, even if it means letting Rin die and Shirou walk a path similar or identical to his. As soon as the Holy Grail appears, Shirou kills Rin and destroys the Holy Grail. With his Projection magic. Magic that Rin helped him perfect. *And thus, Emiya Shirou saved the world. He destroyed the Holy Grail, ended the Holy Grail Wars and became a Hero of Justice.* EDITTED BECAUSE I FOUND SOME ANNOYING TYPOS _(goddammit!)_
MrDibara except shirou doesn't know any projection that is strong enough to destroy the grail. I would think that he would make a contract with Archer since they both now have a mutual goal to destroy the grail. Shirou would use all his command seals to give enough mana for Archer to project Excalibur and destroy it to bits thus killing Archer himself. By the way, doesn't shirou have Kiritsugu's contender back at the house locked up somewhere? I doubt kiritsugu buried it somewhere.
@@JayWalkZ Man, it's been over a year, I had even forgotten I wrote this comment. _(damn! forgot I used to be that eloquent)_ Well, Thompson Contender is a thing of beauty, but unlike Miyuverse Shirou, Stay Night Shirou wasn't really knowledgeful of his stepfather's hystory and way of life. So even if Kiritsugu hid the Contender somewhere, I doubt Shirou knows it even exists, mych less how to use it. Btw, I like your idea of Shirou and Archer making a begrundged alliance at the last minute due to "Angry Matthew" almost materializing. I can picture some really bitter interactions between them, like how Archer saw Shirou's betrayal from a milestone, but did not warn Rin because, like Shirou, he knows the Grail needs to be destroyed and Rin probably wouldn't allow that at that point. It sure wouldn't be a sweet farewell for the two Heroes of Justice, specially Archer. Having to die while watching your younger self follow a path possibly worst than your own, while being unable to do anything to stop it... Man, I better stop right here. This is getting deep!
Haziq Humaidi If necessary. Any sort of ambush, any trick, or sneaky move, it doesn't matter To become 'Kiritsugu Emiya' means that there wouldn't be any line he wouldn't cross. Hell, he might even wait for them to kill one another, and then kill whomever won the battle.
Why is this Endingconsidered to be a bad end? Yeah killing Sakura sucks, but why is everyone so hung up on not liking or pitying Shirou for it? Why is it bad that one girl has to be killed to save the entire world? Wouldn't that make everyone else evil if they want her to live but everyone else dies instead? This actually fits with how F/SN is all about deconstructing the concept of being a hero and that you can't always save everyone. So by that logic, this ending would fit perfect with that idea. So why is it still wrong in the end?
It's basically considered a bad end because this is where he becomes Archer. Emiya turns into his father. Though for such a broken character it really is a perfect ending.
+jamal munir Fate Shirou had the best chance to become Archer. HF Shirou has the best chance of becoming his father. Archer and Kiritsugu are two very different people, although I could understand how they seem similar. But remember, EMIYA wanted to terminate his existence from the multiverse because he *hated* how twisted his desires to help others became, how he had annihilated millions for the sake of unborn trillions, all across an infinite number of timelines and probability chains. Kiritsugu simply wanted to his lifetime of fucked-up choices validated as meaningful and heroic. Archer simply wanted to paradox himself to oblivion and prevent the countless iterations of his younger self across the Kaleidescope (who he's been defeating/killing in nearly every timeline in which Shirou Emiya becomes an active participant of the Grail War) from ever taking up the ideals of Kiritsugu. I do agree with you that given the choices made to achieve this ending, and given his background as an adopted son of Kiritsugu, this is a good ending for Shirou Emiya.
Farscryer0 For me I also always thought out of the three routes that Fate Shirou is the one who has the most chance of becoming Archer as well. It makes a lot of sense for him to become Archer since he stuck to the naïve ideal all the way without opposition. Though they added in that ending for him in Realta Nua where he goes to Avalon so that's pretty much impossible now.
+Sanic Speed And yet Sakura could possible kill nearly everyone on the planet. Billions of people would die. How is that something that's worth risking?
+Mei Misaki No. Fate-route Shirou has the best chance of becoming Archer. With this route and this choice, Shirou would become a second Magus Killer like his adopted father.
It's cool that he hardened his resolve to beat Zouken, Ilya, and Tohsaka and win it all.. Just, how is he going to do all that? He doesn't even have Saber!
Via the classic method that's not used all too often. Kill the Master and the Servant dies too. Shirou has shown repeatedly that when he actually puts his mind to something, he can achieve wonders. And all of the Masters are people that Shirou is at least capable of killing, especially when you realize that Shirou's actually pretty smart. He could just blow up the entirety of Zouken's compound with explosives. Shoot Rin through the head when she's not paying attention, whether with a gun or a bow, since both should be capable of killing her with her guard down. And that's not even considering the fact that he could very likely poison Rin. Illya is a bit more difficult and it'd also probably have to either be a situation where he gets the drop on her. Or if she get's cocky and gets too close to him, and he figures out how to project something with velocity.
He will be used by other to kill and kill. Innocent or guilty alike, become a mass murder for some one. At the end, even more pitiful than Archer. Remember, one that blindly follow a flawed and flickering concept like "justice" are easy to exploide. After he has no use, he'll be kill conveniently, thus end the live a pitiful murderer.
There are more than two choices. Life is not binary for example you can: 1)Kill everyone 2)Save Everyone 3)Runaway and let the situation sort itself out. One thing really bothers me about this entire scenario is how black and white it's portrayed. If Shirou chooses to save Sakura then all of a sudden he'll turn a blind eye to her actions until it's too late then he'll separate her from the shadow curse when things go really bad and can't be ignored anymore. Honestly, why can't he look for a way to save Sakura and make sure she doesn't kill anyone? Then on the other hand if he chooses to kill Sakura he'll become like Kiritsugu and all of a sudden and may be ruthless enough to also kill innocent people if the situation calls for it. This begs me to ask what makes mos Shirou and Kiritsugu killing innocents when the situation calls for it okay? I thought they wanted to prevent casualties yet they have no problem causing casualties when it suits their ends. I want to know why when Sakura kills she's viewed as a threat but when Kiritsugu kills its viewed as a necessity. If anything both should be viewed as bad. That aside, l don't really get killing Sakura on day 9 since she didn't do anything wrong and she even saved Shirou twice so he should at least try to save her in return but mind of steel Shirou didn't even try to help. Also, killing someone because something bad might happen in the future is flimsy because the future can always change and is too uncertain. Again, saving Sakura doesn't suddenly mean letting everyone in Fuyuki die. Who's to say she couldn't be cured before going berserk? Who's to say Fuyuki couldn't be evacuated? Not everything needs to be black and white. But if we're gonna kill people for what they might do in the future then everybody is on the chopping block starting with mos Shirou especially if he becomes a counter guardian. The worst part about mos Shirou is that he doesn’t care about people at all. He just treats them like objects in need of saving one moment and will kill them if the situation calls for it at another moment. Just like Kiritsugu, Mos Shirou is loyal only to his ideology alone but that's to be expected from a nutcase who never got therapy for his trauma. In fate extra, Shirou becomes an unaccountable law breaking vigilante/mercenary/terrorist who kills innocence along with the guilty for his own self-gratification of “becoming a hero” then justifies their deaths as meaningful sacrifices as if those people ever asked to be sacrificed and he doesn’t do anything to help those caught in the crossfire and left injured due to his escapades just like Kiritsugu. Seriously, the emiya alter backstory where he offs an entire church in the one manga made me hate shirou so much but I guess killing is okay when counter guardians/heroes of justice do it and wrong when others do it. Sometimes, I think the reason Archer emiya wanted to stop being a counter guardian was that he realized that he would just keep killing and killing even the people he once saved would die at his hands eventually and no true change was actually occurring. Merely increasing body count doesn’t solve problems all the time since we also need people like doctors who can heal and construction workers to build things instead of living a trail of destruction. On the other hand, heavens feel Shirou was too damn passive and didn’t look for a way to save Sakura until she went full berserk mode. However, I do think the real test begins when we have to choose to kill Sakura after she goes berserk but being passive like Hf Shirou instead of actively looking for a cure is not a good thing. Though I do think that for all his talk about becoming a hero Shirou is too passive and rarely does heroic things until the situation really calls for it. Anyway, I may agree with killing Sakura after the first real berserk stage, but l don't support it one bit since l view Sakura as innocent either way since she has been abused and is pretty much possessed thus not acting of her own accord so separating her from Angry Matthew would be the real solution. Then l would punish the people who made her suffer so they wouldn't do to others what they did to Sakura especially Zouken because if not dealt with he'll just find someone else and restart the cycle. Lastly, l think Sakura is a symptom of the real issue, which is the holy grail war, Tokiomi not giving her to a good family and madmen like Zouken and Shinji abusing her for who knows how long. If it weren't for these things Sakura would not be in this situation. Also, the same thing about being symptoms of deeper issues can apply to counter guardians and people like Kiritsugu otherwise situations like this will keep on repeating themselves endlessly. So even if Shirou kills Sakura he still needs to punish the people who wronged her in the first place then make sure a situation like this and the holy grail wars don't happen again. Again, sacrificing the few for the many just prolongs the inevitable if the real problems aren't dealt with. Plus, if not careful it creates more problems like the death of innocents, destruction of property and livelihoods, revenge-seeking from those who lost their loved ones, or the cops trying to arrest the one who sacrificed others lives. Also, it's ironic that those who preach about the needs of the many want to go about enforcing what they believe to be the needs of the many when it's actually their own personal individual beliefs of what they think the majority wants. Side note: How is mos shirou going to win the war? He has no servant, has poor magecraft, Archer still wants to kill him, Illya and berserker will show him no mercy, he barely survived against zouken the first time, Kirei and Gil have their own plans, and he doesn't have the equipemnt or skill kiritsugu had. Even if he still allies with Rin and Kirei gives him Gil it's still a very risky situation because the latter can betray them at any time and I don't think they'll be as lucky as fate or ubw
This is honestly one of the comments that I agree with the most. There's a whole lot of room between doing nothing and killing her. They could also try and move Sakura elsewhere, since the Shadow likely has a certain range that it has to stay in. Overall, one of Shirou's biggest character flaws that I think a lot of people don't talk about is how passive/stagnant he is. He doesn't change things by himself, he doesn't make the first move a lot of the time, and he doesn't think up new ideas all too often. For instance, once he has the ideal of becoming a superhero, he sets that ideal in himself, and he practices his magecraft that his father taught him. And he does that for six years with pretty much no progress. Now I'll admit his ability to persevere even when it looks like he's not making progress is somewhat admirable. But there were so many other options that he could have done if he stopped being so passive. Once he decides to start doing something he's really quite good at it. For instance, in the route that Archer took, it's at least implied that Shirou went from high school to war with not much time in between. There is a slight bit that I disagree with at the end of your comment. While Sakura is a victim, that doesn't make her innocent. She killed a lot of people that she wasn't forced to. And while Sakura is a victim of Zouken and Shinji. Shinji is a victim of Zouken as well, but that doesn't make what he did to Sakura any better. Just like how technically Hitler, and most of Nazi Germany, were victims of the Treaty of Versailles. But that doesn't make what they did any better either. Although I do want to clarify that I'm talking about Sakura after her rampage. I'm not of the group that's willing to kill people for things that they might do in the future. Unless we're talking someone holding a gun to someone's head, in which case I could make a fair argument for that being something that's happening in the present.
I love Taiga's reaction to this. "Um, yeah, so... uhhhhhhh, this wasn't supposed to happen."
I love how Tiger Dojo, usually happy and hilarious compared to the Dead Ends, suddenly goes dead serious. It's like, there's absolutely nothing to make fun of of this one, that's how dark it is.
@@MrDibara Because once again she has lost someone she loves to the "Superhero" ideal. She and Illy are hit hard by it. Illya finally gets to see what happened to Kiritsugu. It was not pretty.
@@facundogonzalez5453 It helps I think that compared to most Bad Ends, which boils down to "you fucked up and Shirou died 'cuz you're a dummy. Stop being a dumbass and go fix this," there's really... nothing to "fix" in this ending. It's like Taiga says in this dojo: "This is one result.' To me this has never really felt like a "Bad End" like... it's a completely unhappy, dark, and cynical one... but it really feels less like "this was a bad end that lead to Shirou's doom due to making the wrong choices" and more "this is a possible outcome to the story of Shirou Emiya."
@@ShinoharaMiyu Not just possible. This is COunter Guardian EMIYA ending. Or at least close to it.
@@facundogonzalez5453 And probably EMIYA Altar's creation.
3. I want to protect Kotomine Kirei.
Seed They had a lot of sex after this.
OMG i need that ending
oh yeah!
4. I want to protect Illya.
P R O T E C C
His mind is steel, his blood is iron, but his heart is glass.
... And his ass is grass
"I pity you, Shirou. You're going to be deceiving yourself forever with that crying face of yours."
That's why Illya is life. :3
Emmannuel Alexandre no he became heartless just like his dad and archer.
+Kevin Jimenez
Archer was never heartless. Archer wanted nothing more than to wipe his existence from all facets of the multiverse, to become one with oblivion, all because he couldn't stand killing "x" number of humans to save "x * n" number of humans. That's not heartless... selfish, perhaps, but not heartless.And Kiritsugu wasn't heartless either, but rather a self-deluded moron with a martyr complex, convinced that he could shoulder the burden of his own choices, along with the consequences and grief from all of those he wronged in the process, and still consider his actions to be correct.
Exactly. This is beyond Archer... This is EMIYA Alter.
@@Farscryer0 to be honest kiritsugus wish would have been granted had it not been for Einzberns interference and the corruption of the grail.
Like Fate Shirou normal end? The one that could't save Saber and will not reach Avalon...
It says alot about this ending when even the Tiger Dojo can't make a joke out of your choice and basically goes "Nope. Not even gonna go there. Get the fuck out."
0:43 it's honestly an eye opener to me how after acknowledging what he shouldn't do but realllly wants to do (which is to protect Sakura against the odds) is a fantasy and reminding himself of his original true goal, his inner conflict ceases, his mind clears, the "gastric juice up his throat.. stomach pain.. tearful eyes" stop. He's able to function normally now, but at what cost. His old self moments ago would spit in his face, so to speak
"What did it cost"
"everything"
"You're wrong. I was here because... I TRIED not to lose anything. And I didn't. Not a single thing..." -Archer
It's sad, but it's also beyond badass.
Shirou goes and wins the war. Just him, ALONE.
I have a question: He surely will fight against servants so he made contact with the world just like archer?
@@lmaomax4341 So, as I heard he used Kiritsugu's methods, so he probably went for the Masters, maybe playing nice with Rin until the end of the war. He could've formed a contract with Rider since Sakura was now dead. Someone also said that this was the origin of Alter EMIYA from FGO
@@filipevilar4950 I see,thanks.
yet his mind broken lol
@@filipevilar4950 No, Emiya Alter was just the same as Archer until a certain point where his mission was to put an end to Kiara's cult. The cult members were for the most part innocent, but due to them being involved with Kiara, they were bound to die in the end, either by suicide or another existence killing them. If I remember correctly, what has made Emiya turn into an Alter and instantly become an even more broken version of the person that was originally called Emiya Shirou, was the fact that Kiara committed suicide in front of him, and also adding the fact that she forced her followers to be killed by Emiya. Now, if you understand Emiya's character, ideals and etc, it's no surprise for you that this led him to turn into someone even more cynical and broken as a person. His whole profile and conversations in FGO exposes to the player how much of a mess he's in that version.
My best guess is that Shirou bombed Rin's house and killed her
Right after she made a big speech about how impossible her fortress was to breach.
So shirou "kiritsugu-ed" her huh ?
@@ucquang5949 Yes. It's heavily implied that in this ending, possibly even without Servant, he turns into cold, pragmatic mastermind and goes Kiritsugu on everyone wining the war in the end
Good thing Kiritsugu kept a tank in the shed.
Although I don't think things go as Kotomine said. Rider or the Shadow will probably ruin that.
@@randomduck8679 the shadow is no more and Rider is just another weapon for him to use
His mind turned to steel.
His blood became iron and his heart became glass.
That body of his was certainly made out of swords.
Is it real or you made it?
Shirou is the deconstruction of the idealistic hero and I don't think people see that
So do I.
Is not a deconstruction. You must read Jacques Derrida to know what is a deconstruction. Don't use this therm lightly.
@@Yusei5ds0707 Technically yes. A deconstruction can be made in many forms, this is a very short way to say it but basically you take a concept destroy or fundamentaly change it's core or structure. Shirou is that with the "ideals of heroism" (one of the greatest parallels is the single minded heroism that it's potrayed mostly in Shonen protagonist, but that's just the root, he goes beyond that), they take that concept and take it to the extreme by making the question "what it takes to make a guy sacrifice himself so selflessly" and end uo creating this broken little man. It may not be a super-intelectual way to make it but the deepth of Shirou's mind come from the way the narrative is told by this 3 routes and all the endings: how this broken mind can take so many different paths when it's exposed to different scenarios and choices, how the other people can change the view of the world, the people, ourselves and our ideals. It may not be a complex reading, but the many ways that his mind (the one we spend almost ALL THE TIME reading in the VN in order to understand Shirou as a person on an even deeper level) is explored, and the amount of time that we spend doing that gives it such complexity, the narrative makes it that way.
Shirou is not a deconstruction of the idealistic hero. That's Spider-Man. Maybe John McClane. Shirou is a thoughtful analysis on the single-minded mentality of your typical Japanese manga protagonist, whose encompassing traits and determination make their character. I say he isn't a deconstruction due to the fact that while the theme of the story does explore the consequences through all three routes (Frame, Exploration and Threshold, respectively), those same traits are STILL what drives the story towards a result instead of laying them picked apart. A deconstruction would break down those traits one by one and offer a counterpoint as a solution to the thematic problem as far as the story goes. Shirou's an analysis and a criticism, but he's not a deconstruction because those same traits STILL push his role through the story.
@@Sizdothyx What you say definitely has a lot of thought put on it and certainly makes a lot of sense (I also appreciate you responding in a respectful way, I rarely come across anything like that). Even so, and although I agree witha lot of points you mention, I would still say that Shirou is a deconstruction of not only the mind of the average manga protagonist but also of the hero's idealism, this is going to be long and at first it would seem I'm only repeating what the story already told and that I'm going nowhere, but trust me I have a point at the end and I would be glad if you hear me, you don't have to agree with me but that'what I think (english is not my native language so I apologize for possible mistakes).
Although he does not propose in a very definite way an alternative to what it would be to embody the ideal of a hero, he does challenge and break the principle that forms this ideal, emphasizing that despite the ideal of "fighting and sacrificing for others" it may be a nice way of thinking, it is still an irrational idea and it will never be pursued with the true aim of good and the satisfaction of others, at least not directly, the achievement of that goal only seeks to complete a part of the individual who embodies it.
I know it seems like a simple observation and acceptance of what that idea already is, and I understand why it may seem like that, even so, Shirou in UBW does not end up becoming the Heroic Spirit EMIYA since although his ideal seems to be the "same", the perception of this changes, and if there is one thing that Fate believes in, it is how perceptions, circumstances and points of view can change many things, and this because Shirou's perception of his ideal at the beginning of the story (and one that is taking shape in the Fate Route) is definitely different during the course and end of the UBW Route, now with more ambiguity of who should be saved (respecting the own wishes of others as in the case of Kuzuki and his death) and how he approaches his way of facing the risks that following his ideal implies (reflected in the 2 times he tries to face Gilgamesh, first with Illya and then in his battle and how during the route he is willing to collaborate with others or put himself in the front line depending on his opportunities) and definitely with a little more cynicism to his own inheriting ideal somewhat the perception that Archer has given him, coming to call himself a hypocrite for following the path of an ideal that is too utopian and false by recognizing that the desire of his being is not truly born of the desire for the good of others, but seeks to appease his own internal suffering and please the goal unfulfilled by his deceased father, even more retaining some of his determination that this purpose can still bring happiness to other people and also in c In consequence, again I know that it seems this just seems like a realization and that it doesn't really change anything, but the reason that Shirou has so many internal monologues is to see how his thoughts and desires often differ from his actions, that what he is internally and How he perceives things, although his actions do not change much if he eventually ends up affecting the kind of person he becomes, and in the same way, although his ideal does not demonstrate changes big enough to be called significant from an external perspective, it does change the core of how Shirou perceives and persues them and in the same way, despite the fact that externally
Although his ideal does not demonstrate changes too great to be called significant, it does change the core of how Shirou perceives them and in the same way, despite the fact that externally they are not represented in a very notorious way, they do demarcate the kind of path that Shirou will continue and at least I feel that he always lets himself be seen as he approaches situations in an increasingly different way according to how he perceives his ideal during the UBW Route, however I think that the true answer that history gives us regarding the issue of Heroism does not reach the third route.
Yes, I firmly believe that Heaven's Feel is the definitive answer to the question posed by history of how to carry out an ideal of heroism and become a hero on the way, and I think the answer is quite clear: the ideal of Heroism is not unshakable or immutable and highly dependent on circumstances. While it is obvious that in HF Shirou "betrays his ideal", I would not say that he completely abandons his desire to fight for the happiness of others, but that his number has simply been reduced to his loved ones, or rather to whom his heart decides for the moment, it is well reflected as the story even though Shirou stops following the path of the "Hero of Justice" he continues to present him as a hero (with special emphasis on the CG presented after the fight with Berseker), and although it could be argued that this is simply "Well, obviously they are going to make the protagonist look badass", and although in part it is true, I would say most of his decisions and actions taken are the ones most loaded with a genuine feeling of concern for the Others, for whom he fights, where the only regret he has is not being able to carry out his dream, but it is here when he shows his side, let's say, more "selfish", it is when he ironically proves to be more disinterested and able to connect with others, even being willing to take secondary roles and back off on certain situations by having a better understanding of those who surround. In the end of "mind of steel" where he basically betrays everyone by refusing to betray his ideal, he manages to win the war and although his ideal has the same basis as on the other routes, it ends up destroying his goodness, and where before found a beautiful ideal is replaced by a cold one, despite being the same in principle.
The deconstruction of this ideal comes not only in the true endings of the story, but also in the course of this, seeing how they mutate little by little, and of course in the bad endings, showing not only how the same ideal has different effects depending on the reason that motivates it, the way they are perceived, the way they are executed and the circumstances in which they are found. Basically history tells us that there is no definitive ideal of heroism, that the same one that can save many and give happiness can destroy us as a person or be abandoned, and that depending on the aforementioned factors it can direct whoever persecutes it in different ways. directions, but mainly this ideal should never remain unchanged, since it always evolves, changes or is destroyed, and that there is no person, not even Shirou, who can carry the weight of that ideal in every possible scenario and eventually something must change, something must give, something must be broken or ideal and person will be destroyed.
it is here when he shows his side, let's say, more "selfish", it is when he ironically proves to be more disinterested and able to connect with others, even being willing to take more minor roles and back off in certain situations by having a better understanding of those who surround. In the end of "mind of steel" where he basically betrays everyone by refusing to betray his ideal, he manages to win the war and although his ideal has the same basis as on the other routes, it ends up destroying his goodness, and where before found a beautiful ideal is replaced by a cold one, despite being the same in principle.
The deconstruction of this ideal comes not only in the true endings of the story, but also in the course of this, seeing how they mutate little by little, and of course in the bad endings, showing not only how the same ideal has different effects depending on the reason that motivates it, the way they are perceived, the way they are executed and the circumstances in which they are found. Basically history tells us that there is no definitive ideal of heroism, that the same one that can save many and give happiness can destroy us as a person or be abandoned, and that depending on the aforementioned factors it can direct whoever persecutes it in different ways. directions, but mainly this ideal should never remain unchanged, since it always evolves, changes or is destroyed, and that there is no person, not even Shirou, who can carry the weight of that ideal in every possible scenario and eventually something must change, something must give, something must be broken or ideal and person will be destroyed.
In conclusion, I think that what is proposed is that the ideal of heroism can be beautiful, it can even inspire others to save lives, but it is not unshakable, and the people who persecute it are not unshakable either, and depending on the circumstances it can bring us completely different endings. The Fate of Shirou Emiya is to pursue the ideal of the Hero of Justice, but that Fate does not promise any sure end, neither happy nor bad, that is why there is beauty in the 3 endings raised where apparently they are the best possible scenarios for Shirou in the search to fulfill his dream.
Ok that was all, if you read all this I can only thank you, I think that is all I have to say about it, or at least the only way to put it (I am not very good at this, I know , and doing it in English was even more difficult). If you still disagree with me it is completely understandable and I will be happy to read what you have to say, but I think that is the best way I could deal with the subject without going further than I already did. I firmly believe in everything I have said and it is in your hands whether to take it into consideration or not, I do not think I will be able to say more to convince you, I can argue and deepen certain ideas that I mentioned but I think that in general is all I had to say about it, I thank you in advance and say goodbye.
So, I just passed by here again after a number of years, and there's something I've noticed no one pointing out. Sakura herself is fine with dying here. If she hears Shirou say he wants her to live, she'll escape and live for him. If she doesn't hear that, she lets herself be killed. Just a reminder that Sakura herself had a choice in all of this as well.
You know what probably makes this even more tragic? When Kotomine implies that Shirou and Rin will be at odds in the end.
Even though she was so stupidly stubborn on being "the cold, calculating Magus", the fact is that Rin loves the hell out of Sakura and doesn't realize how much that love (and the guilt she feels for not protecting her) weights on her until it's pretty much too late.
Which in this scenario, happens sadly after she killed her.
Now picture Tohsaka Rin, once rational and calculating, suddenly going mad with grief and despair, not too different from when Kiritsugu had to kill Natalia. Yeah, you can see where this is going.
Rin will try to use the Holy Grail to revive Sakura. She's not Kiritsugu, she doesn't actually have it in her to "do whatever it takes for your ideals" and live on like he did. She'll break down. Completely. Mind, body and soul.
It's a little ironic. She, who originally only fought "to win", would now actually have a wish for the Grail.
And who can blame her? She failed Sakura so much their entire lives. And she knows that. So, given how actually emotional and fragile Rin is, it's not hard picturing her wanting to ressurect Sakura, free from Zouken's clutches. She would've wanted to fix everything she should've done right and did wrong.
But remember Kotomine's other ominous foreshadowing?. *when you learn the true nature of the Holy Grail.*
Yup! Our dear and beloved friend Angry Matthew still in there, corrupting the Greater Grail. Which pretty much means zero chances of any wish getting actually granted.
And that's when Rin and Mind of Steel Shirou will clash.
Even if she learns this, Rin will probably still try to use the Grail for the slightest of chances that it might grant her her wish.
Remember, she won't be the calculating and rational Rin from before, she'll now be lost in grief and despair, willing to bet everything for the sister she failed.
Shirou, on the other hand, has probably become even worse than Kiritsugu at this point. Full pragmatism and rationality and no humanity or feelings. If he was willing to let his beloved be killed for "what is right", killing her killer won't be an issue. Especially if she's about to do something as reckless as risking the release of All The World's Evils. Him turning on her is only obvious.
The sad thing? She probably won't see it coming.
We all know how easy a target Rin is when she loses composure and control of the situation. Just imagine her after throwing reason to the wind all to bring back Sakura.
Rin is just not herself when shock and emotions have overtaken her, she won't be as analytical and perceptive as she was before.
And that's when Shirou will kill her. Betraying her when she was at her most vulnerable.
She won't see Shirou's betrayal coming.
And imagine how heartwrentched she'll be as she lays dying.
Damn! I can even picture her surviving long enough to witness Shirou destroying the Grail right in front of her! Now wouldn't that make Kayneth's death look simple by comparison?!
So true tbh
MrDibara Part of me want to see Shirou go kiritsugu on Rin.
I mean, you keep forgetting that Archer is still there to protect Rin. Shirou stands no chance in the war at this point in the story.
@@yancgc5098 It is Kirei said. Shiro will do anything. Makes me wonder what he could do in the first place, but it would be interesting to see.
Gonzalo Ariel Sotelo Doesn’t mean Shirou will come out successful. Kirei is just being hyperbole.
Lots of people here in the comments seem to be totally misunderstanding the meaning of the actual fate story.
It's about what a hero is. In the fate route we're being introduced to the holy grail war and the meaning of being a hero as Emiya Kiritsugu saw it. Kill a few people to save more people. Sacrifice your own life for lots of people you don't even know about. Kill few to save the masses. Kill the weak to save the strong.
In UBW he gets to the conclusion of this with archer and where his wish comes from. But heavens feel is the answer to being a hero. It's not about killing always a few to save lots of people you don't know.
In the authors point of view a hero is someone who protects those he loves dearly with everything he got. Be it his friends like Ilya or Rin or his lover like Sakura.. And he fights for it.
Shirou changed his point of view about that after meeting Sakura. And he tried to protect what he loved even as his future self denied his new found motivation - turning his bodies to swords (which is also somewhat of an allegory that he is only a sword that is being used but not the wielder. "I am the bone of my sword"
The more he fought for Sakura against Kirei the more his body turned to swords because he abandoned what he lived for in the beginning.
But that wish was never his as we learned in ubw. In heavens feel he finally found a motivation to fight for himself. To protect the ones he loves.
So llyas reaction for this ending is really the best
""I pity you, Shirou.
You're going to be deceiving yourself forever with that crying face of yours."
Because this "superhero" doesn't make him happy. And not even the world will thank him for that. Nope instead the world will kill him and he will die like Archer died.
Gisol And this is why i love Ichigo Kurosaki's character from Bleach, he came to that conclusion in ep 3 or so (not saying Bleach is better in any way, shape , or form (the anime and manga could've been done so, so, soooooooo much better, but allas....) just saying i like how that ideal was presented there
Gisol >Kill the weak to protect the Strong.
No, is more like kill the Strong who is a danger to several Weak.
Is literally the oposite of Social darwinism.
Kazuya Prota the ideal is exactly as you say it That's pretty much the idea behind it.
However concepts are often enough far away from reality.
Communism for example used to be a great ideal for the sake and the good of the masses as well. The initial idea wasn't even bad, however the concept just didn't stand against the harsh reality.
So Kiritsugu's idea was pretty much: Kill the few big bad guys suppressing the many weak people out there. Classic Shonen Hero.
However Fate turned it somewhat the other way around.
As you can see with the case of Sakura who was basically neither really strong nor evil, but would have to be killed by Shirou to protect other people. She was basically too weak to endure her life and got mad.
The "hero" would then kill her in her weakness to protect the many other people.
Or Kiritsugu who killed Natalie in the plane or would have killed Illya and Irisviel if he could save more people with it. They weren't strong and evil at all. No classic villains threatening poor townsfolks. However they were the reason why many people might have died.
Fate pretty much perverted the classic superhero idea of killing the few villains to save many people and lets it look like the hero is one cruel heartless bastard for doing so.
It's showing not always the strong ones are causing trouble and just killing the people that are endangering the masses off does not really seem that heroic.
And in the last route Natsu showed us what in his opinion a real hero is. Not the superman hero, Goku or whatever, but the one trying their everything to save and help their beloved ones. Not the famous hero, but our next one can be our hero and we can be the hero for the person next to us.
I think it's a pretty cool and different take on the whole Shonen Genre, don't you think?^^
Gisol Kiritsugu was a utilitarian, he know who he was killing people, he know Who others will dislike him.
>And in the last route Natsu showed us what in his opinion a real hero is. Not the superman hero, Goku or whatever, but the one trying their everything to save and help their beloved ones. Not the famous hero, but our next one can be our hero and we can be the hero for the person next to us.
That is a very short sight, is someone doing things for his own happyness, is just Another human.
And no, Shirou is not the hero of the common people, he literally priorizated his waifu Sakura over the lifes of others.
That is the definition of selfisnesh.
And Nasu Act like this is good becausd Muh Existencialism
Yeah, HF Shirou is very selfish. He let hundreds of people die for Sakura, but I'm pretty sure HF Shirou was supposed to be presented as an equally valid conclusion to Fate and UBW.
Can you say you'd be any different though? Shirou in Heaven's Feel is meant to be the most relatable to the audience because of his selfishness. Most people wouldn't sacrifice their loved ones to save a bunch of strangers. It's not ideal (heh), but we live in a real world.
RIN:"-
-
Aren't you going to stop me, Emiya-kun?"
RIN: "So you won't mind even if I kill Sakura?"
RIN: "Wait, you seriously won't?!"
RIN: "Emiya-kun, if you haven't heard me, I'm going to kill your girlfriend"
RIN: "Gonna kill her any moment now, UNLESS someone's going to stop me, Emiya-kun"
RIN: "Emiya-kun I am already armed and dangerous, I am the embodiment of the act of sororicide"
RIN: "ARGH!!! I'm on my wits' end! Negotiations are going *nowhere*!"
SHIROU: "These were negotiations? I thought we were just having a talk!"
RIN: "Oh, why won't you stop me from killing Sakura?!"
For some eason, I hear their abridged va's talking
Jay Senpaii thats the point..
@@verheilen9007 thats thr joke
This sounds like something from Abridged series
To be fair, the FGO version and other variations tend to lean so much into this aspect of her, when her mage-like self also comes from the fact that she's also a pre mechanical person a lot of times too
Man I want to see this animated so bad. Shirou going kiritsugu on everyone lmao.
I want an animation of Sparks Liner High
Oath under snow is your beet option
I am the bone of my sword.
Steel is my mind
And fire my blood.
I have overcome countless battlefields,
Not even once retreating
Not even once showing mercy.
I was always alone, searching for a answer upon the hill of swords.
In the end, that answer held no meaning.
This body could only be made of swords.
Stolen from somewhere else
Incredible
You know this ending is fucking sad when even Taiga has nothing to say...
Somehow I think Kotomine might be lying about "doing his best" and just wanted to see everyone suffered. It's his kind of things.
One of my favorite endings, just because it shows how utterly broken a human Shirou really is.
That, plus JUSTICE.
Exactly this for some unknown reason remind me of the dark batmans from dark Multiverse specifically grimm knight
broken? man please, he's a superhero that saves prople, whereas you are not. Jealous much?
@@genesis_bustamante What's wrong with you?
@@rivorunum please, elaborate.
@@genesis_bustamante if you lose yourself to become a superhero then it’s not really worth it.
Option 3: "I want to protect Illya..."
Option 4: "Sakura and The World... I'm going to save them both!"
GohanLSSJ2 1: If only..
2: That's Prisma Ilya's optimism as an innocent little girl. Shirou is an adult and a magus and knows that is too unrealistic to even attempt.
Not quite...
He only reached this conclussion from Kotomine's manipulations and his lack of fotesight.
He traced Rule Breaker very early on the story, when he still had Saber. He could have very well used it in advance to break Sakura of the bond with Angra Mainyu BEFORE she could fall to the Dark Side.
Hell, I bet Rule Breaker could have saved Saber, too, considering she was also controlled by Sakura AND corrupted by Angra Mainyu.
GohanLSSJ2 Thing is he wasn't actually able to project Noble Phantasms in this route until much later. I think his first time doing that in HF was in his fight with Berserker?
Also he didn't know shit about Angra Mainyu until it was too late. He found out (or rather acknowledged the fact) that Sakura was linked to the Shadow towards the end of the route, but even then he didn't know anything about Angra Mainyu yet.
The same kinda applies to Saber since he didn't even know what was going on the first time he saw her Alter form in the forest.
Plus Rule Breaker nullifies contracts and while that is effective on Servants it probably wouldn't help Sakura since it's not like she has a contract with Angra Mainyu or anything.
For some reason Shirou never ever considered using Rule Breaker in any of the routes despite him tracing it in all three. Even if he did I'm not sure how effective it would be in his hands since normally speaking he wouldn't even be able to scratch Saber. His only chance would be to do it as the final step of Archer's Divine Skill (the one he used during Spark Liner High) instead of slashing Saber with Kanshou and Bakuya. But even then that would mean breaking his mind since using that technique requires him going past his limits and drawing out too much from Archer's arm. Otherwise Saber would simply murder him before he could even get close.
@@JokerShiranui Actually, Sakura's link to "Angry Matthew" is a contract in a way, albeit one done without her knowledge. It's why Shirou's Rule Breaker is able to save Sakura later on, effectively denying Angra of any host.
But yeah, it's a shame he didn't learn about his Projection Magecraft any sooner. If he did, he might even have tried to use Rule Breaker to heal Sakura from the Crest Worms. _(which would've been a big fuck you to Zouken)_ XD
But yeah, in this route, he neither learns that nor acquires it in a more or less natural way.
He literally has that power and knowledge *forced into him.* And that slowly destroys him from the inside.
Huh!
Is it just me or does that sound a little similar to how Sakura was "taught" Magecraft by Zouken? Even the risk of death is present!
MrDibara Which actually all just makes me wonder why Archer just simply didn't do it... He seemed to realize what was going on fairly quickly after meeting the Shadow and projecting Rule Breaker (or at the very least teaching Shirou how to do so) would've been a cinch for him. He didn't die until much later in the story too, so I feel like he simply could've easily solved all the HF problems before things went too far. He also could've gone the Iskandar route from the FZ FGO event and simply completely fuck Zouken over, freeing Sakura from the worms and Angra with Rule Breaker and then proceeding to burn his house (and all his "backup worms") down to the ground along with him in it.
And then shirou wearing some black suit while smoking some Chiggerate
It is a sad end, but i don't know if it is a bad one, personally i think the most beautiful ending is the NormalEnd to Heavens Feel where Shirou is gone, even though it may be the saddest of the true endings, and this ending has a bit of the same feel to it, I really wish they hadn't scrapped mind of steel, that could have made a truly beautiful yet sad ending.
@TheUzumakiSpiral no he doesn't. That's an entirely different shirou who messed up his ideals by killing people out of his own free will
For as much as I loathe this ending, if there's one thing I do appreciate it for:
It's for acknowledging how much of a broken human being Shirou is.
@TheMegaUzumaki No, that´s not true, fate grand order, Sheraph, there it is told that is fault of Kiara, 3º beast of the grail. In that timeline, he is a hero of justice, as he wanted, but due to her, he is forced to kill innocents, i think hundred of them, that destroyed him, and the scars, i am not sure if it is for the battle he had with her or another reason
@@nawedhasan9912 This is mere speculation, nothing more. Mind of Steel Shirou won't end up like EMIYA or EMIYA Alter. EMIYA is practically the same as EMIYA Alter, but his altered version met with Kiara. Nothing more.
...
This is the secret path to Emiya Alter.
No Emiya Alter Happens because he meets Kiara Sissogou. This is EMIYA, giving up everything to become a Hero of Justice.
@@facundogonzalez5453 1. Is Kiara Sessyoin not Kairi Sisigou
2. You're wrong, EMIYA comes from a Fate route like world where he couldn't save Saber's heart, this is different
@@armandomendoza7371 No. Here he goes full Kiritsugu. And yes I know the nature of EMIYA. But in this Route is the same. Instead of not saving Saber, he rejects Sakura.
@@armandomendoza7371 I've read somewhere that the simple description about Emiya being a failed Fate route is actually inaccurate.
@facundogonzalez5453 is nearly right but there's still a little misunderstanding.
This actually had the potential to become some kind of heartless route, with no heroines, just an edgy Shirou, it would be pretty cool.
It would probably had a sad ending, but i would like to read it
I can picture shirou ending up killing rin/illya and zouken , end up destroying the holy grail and after that trying to become the most powerfull being to stop all magus around the world to do any harms to simple civilians
@@Quanbe77 lol nope he gets killed by Archer, Gilgamesh, or Kirei.
@@Quanbe77 Shirou can't win this war, Rin has still Archer and you know Archer was still itching to kill Shirou. Also Medusa will kill anyone who would want to harm Sakura. Gilgamesh is still around but he's different from the Saber and Rin's route Gil where he wants Angra Mainyu to be released. Let's not forget about Sakura's ultimate pawn which is Saber who can spams her NP because of Sakura's infinite mana supply. So Shirou can't win in this war unless if he had a plot armor in this bad end.
"Q: BAD END 30. In the original game, Kotomine declares that Shirou will decide to kill Zouken, Illya and Rin to survive until the end. How does he go about killing all three of them?
N: With how weaklings stand in mind, and with disregard to personal safety, he spares nothing engaging in one kill per person. He basically creates "if i can swing things into this situation there is a 1 (Shirou) to 9 (Opponent) chance of winning, and a loss is instant death." situations and survives till the end."
That was said in a Q&A. The English translation is implying that he'll survive the war, whereas in the Japanese one, it's more implied that he'll almost survive till the end then die, probably after killing everybody.
I hope ufotable makes an special regarding this ending.
I can't even begin to imagine how dark, depressing will be the victory of this Shirou
Archer would see not only that he failed in his retgone, but has to see the birth of something far worse than himself.
And after he wins... What kind of atrocities would he do?
I hope there is a fanfic out there worthy of becoming an animation
You'd think that, until you actually see the real implication here and forget Kotomine is smiling all throughout the ending. It's a bad end for a reason.
Sometimes doing the "right" thing is not so right.
man you know you fucked up when even the tiger dojo doesn't want to help you
I always appreciated this ending... Seems a bit more likely to happen given who Shirou is. Though, it makes one wonder how things would have played out had he been the one to kill Sakura instead of Rin.
Entropy 44 nothing. he is just like his dad and archer so he will kill anyone who stands in his way.
Sorry, but I'm gonna have to stick with the original ending in that regard. "There's no need to talk about the obvious outcome. Emiya Shirou will turn his mind to steel, and become a superhero."
Man we could've had a route with no heroine. This would've been interesting especially for visual novel. Wish Nasu made this a route.
Actually, you're a little off on that. Shirou's Ideal was "To save everyone and never let anyone die". Therefore, either option, whether it was to kill Sakura, or let her run wild and wreak havoc, would have violated his ideal. Therefore, in the end it was a matter of whether Shirou was willing to sacrifice the one he loved over the masses or keep is waifu alive at the sacrifice of everyone else.
Doesn't progress that ideal into thinking who he should save and who he should punish to be a hero of justice?
Shirou does not count Magus among the people he should save.Hell it is reinforced to us that Shirou is ready to kill the masters in this holy grail war. The thing he did not account for that masters are people he knows of that is why he gets into a conflict with his ideals if the maguses in the holy grail war were nobody's to him he would have killed them in cold blood. That is because of how Shirou was taught "To be a magus is to walk with the death" as such he does not see magus among the people he wants to make happy by saving them to him they agreed they can die in any point once they became a magus.
Hate to say it. But this is my favourite ending. It is TRAGIC. Not exactly horrible, Femme Fatale is Horrible. But Mind of Steel is the most tragic one. Because there is nothing "Horrifying" in it. It is simply Shirou giving into his ideals. What makes this specially horrible for Ilya and Taiga. Is that this can TOTALLY happen outside of the Routes, and as Archer proves, it is Shirou's ending. It fact Archer exists because Shirou does not fall in love and gives up all of his connections.
In some way, this is Archer's Ending. And not something Illya or Taiga can advise against. That is the gut punch. There is really nothing "wrong" with this ending. You stop the end of the world. Something that fits a "Hero" and that is Shirou's dream.
Archer Emiya or Emiya alter?
@@thirdplanet4471 Archer Emiya. It is HEAVILY implied that he DID kill Sakura in his timeline. Not in this situation, but he did kill her. That probably helped to break his relationship with Rin, which seemed to be rather distant by that point.
@@facundogonzalez5453 From what l heard Archer Emiya's timeline was an alternate fate route where he failed to save Saber
@@thirdplanet4471 Yes, but EMIYA Alter involves something worse. Loosing Sakura is similar to loosing Saber, so it is more likely he becomes Archer.
@@facundogonzalez5453 According to the wiki Emiya alter got screwed over by Kiara and killing innocents. But ultimately, things get really confusing trying to pin point events when it comes to all the alternate CG emiyas and their journeys. I'm gonna throw in the tunnel when it comes to him but thanks for added info.
totally agree. Nasu MUST make route for this.
This Ending Is So Famous And So Bad That Ilya And Taiga Are Speechless About It Damn!
I still like how that the archive LP describes this being a bad ending.
"Maybe for unusually awesome definitions of 'bad'."
Like yeah this isn't a happy ending for anyone, but it's cool as fuck.
Ever present feeling hits so different after you go down this route
[x] I want to protect Illya
this shouldve got the same treatment as Sparks Liner High where it's still a bad ending and it has a tiger dojo, but it just says 'END' instead of 'BAD END' like the normal ending
The Emyia alter route
Nasu confirm in latest interview that this shirou will win the holy grail war but most likely dies after it.
How? Did he commit suicide because of the guilt? I find it plausible.
Igor The Red Don’t have the interview on hand, but from what I remember shirou win in a “The best he ever will be” kind of way but then die due to how hard he had to work.
Interview
Q (Hero of Justice): BAD END 30 in the original game (which fans (JP) call the “Ironhearted
END”), Kotomine declares that Shirou will decide to kill Zouken, Illya and Rin to survive until the
end. How does he go about killing the three of them?
N: With how weaklings stand in mind, and with disregard to their personal safety, he spares
nothing and engages in one kill per person. He basically creates “if I can swing things into this
situation, there is a 1 (Shirou) to 9 (opponent) chance of winning, and a loss is instant death”
situations and survives until the end.
0:51 This is the problem with Archer. He threw away everything in pursuit of his ideals, everything he was and could have been. Everything he could have had, lost. He gave up everything for people he doesn't even know or has heard of. Giving up everything for a bunch of nameless faces while you've already lost the named ones.
What constitutes as 'everyone?' Everyone in your town? Everyone in your school? Neighborhood? You're peer group? Club? _Who is 'everyone?'_
You want to help people even though you clearly don't care about them? You might as well be trying to put air in a bottle.
The problem with archer wasn't his ideal. The problem was he didn't know why he wanted to save people. He simply tried to blindly do it not realizing it was just a cover for his own empty heart. And when he realized that it was too late. And he could not accomplish it to begin with.
Archer never regretted the ideal he wanted to accomplish. He regretted that it was an impossible wish by a person who was fundamentally broken and could not make up their own happiness with something like that alone.
This is why all 3 shirous of fsn surpass archer. They found their reason to continue and live for themselves.
@@MrInuhanyou123One thing I'm having issues with in regard to shiro and archer is reconciling their recklessness with the ideal.
Nasu will have shirou break himself for his ideals and others will call him out on it but they let him do what he wants anyway and even when he finds his own reasons to pursue the ideal he is still reckless. He has to be saved by avalon or learn from archer otherwise he would be a goner and he is pretty much punished for pursuing his ideals.
It also doesnt help that nasu tends to highlight tragedy to an overexaggerated degree by having archer get betrayed by those he saved and making him a cg and he hated offing innocents for all eternity across multiple timelines so much he went back in time to dissuade or off his younger self but he quits at the end and doubles down on his ideals and shirou ignores archers warning but he won't regret his idelas of he walks down that path. Some say ubw toned it down but to me it seems he doubled down even more and if he becones archer he won't regret it.
Hf shirou literally dies at routes end and tho some say he gave up his idelas I interpret it as him reprioritising to be a hero for sakura than others. Also, nasu doesn't always highlight the good that shirou and archer do so its even harder to support him. Maybe its because his ideals are about helping people but if it was about destroying people then the conversation may be different.
I just wish he would tone down the recklessness and we saw him do more good than harm. Also, I wish he and majority of nasuverse got good therapy
@@auraenhancergaming8860 that's kind of the point I feel. Shirou is clumsily living life in a way which brings pain to himself, but that's the bittersweet nature of it, because in best case scenario he finds pride in that even if it's not something he finds fun or enjoyable.
Arturia and shirou are soul mates because quite honestly they would be much happier being normal and relatively selfish people. That's the point of Castoria in lb6 and fate route. In fate route, both shirou and arturia are initially slaves to their own guilt punishing themselves through self imposed elimination. But through wanting more for the other, they are able to moderate each others behavior and in the end become each others ultimate salvation. By the end of the route they both secretly had temptations to live a normal life. But felt how they both did things beyond their own selfish wants was something to be admired and protected
I “like” to think that in this ending Rin isn’t capable of killing Sakura as in the True or normal ending, so she ends up protecting her, however Shirou has already made his decision, and you know the rest…
"Dead sisters is the best sisters" - this version's Shirou
@@CPS42069 lmao
And thus GARcher was born
Tony Young Actually, Archer is not based on any of the three routes, and in fact, Shirou literally stands no chance of becoming Archer in HF because his mindset is way too different. Fate Shirou has the highest chance of becoming Archer, but ultimately, Archer and his past is based off the unused Illya Route.
Nasu only said none of the 3 good endings lead to Archer. He didn't include the bad endings like this one.
BoneBeastKimimaro well archer always do what shirou did in this bad ending. kill the one person to save the many. if a hero and a villian did something that kills alot of people then archer would kill both hero and villian. that is why shirou decided to kill everyone in the grill war including rin to save the world.
BoneBeastKimimaro I truly hope someday we get that Illya route in a game.
TheFearAtSalem Considering they've already remade the game, TWICE, and it still hasn't happened? Sorry, dude, probably not happening.
Finally, a person who doesn't treat poor Sakura like shit. You, sir/ma'am are great and I hope you keep being great.
I don't see this as a bad ending , he decided to kill his loved one for the greater good
Technically Rin killed Sakura
That's the path Kiritsugu once chose. You can see how it ended with him having to kill someone who was like a mother to him and sacrifice his wife and daughter and him losing everyone he loved. If it were not for Shirou he would have been a broken man probably killing himself in the end. Shirou doesn't have anyone he can cling on to...he will prolly kill himself
You just have to think rationally to realize this is not a good ending at all
@@_im_stupid_ Okay, but him rationalizing away saving the few by ignoring the many is as likely to make him commit suicide. Like what will he do if people find out and the relatives of the killed seek out Sakura? This entire exercise is fruitless if you're talking about creating immense guilt.
@@_im_stupid_ he will probably realize the errors of his ways too late and end up as archer
And thus, he goes on to take the name...
*Bob.*
REJOICE SHIROU EMIYA!
this is not a bad ending.
It's an amazing ending.
careful with that edge
It's the begginning of the path of EMIYA Alter.
@@GohanLSSJ2 doesn't matter. He became a real hero.
I don't see how this is a bad end.
+Visitormassacre At this point, Shirou doesn't know about how Sakura will turn out. She could end up destroying the entire world. He sacrifices one person to save the world. If Kiritsugu didn't do what he did, what do you think will happen to the world? The Grail would have fulfilled his wish and destroy the world until only he and his family are left. It's selfishness. He could save Sakura, but he's risking the entire world on the line.
Visitormassacre Paid off, depending on the situation, like if Kiritsugu has chosen the ones he loves over everyone else on Earth, Shirou wouldn't even exist to make this decision. As Shirou, you don't know how the result will turn out at this point, we as a player chooses to save Sakura because it's a game and we know that the story can only unfolded in a good way at the end. Nasu is not Urobutcher, so he's not too keen on tragedy. As Shirou, he has no idea how it would turn out if Sakura is kept alive. It's better to kill Sakura to prevent her from growing and destroying the world. This is why I hate Shirou and like Kiritsugu. They are not hypocrites, and their resolve allows them to make tough choices.
Visitormassacre It's basically sacrifice the few to save the many. What would happen to Shirou if Sakura turned into Shirley? If Shirou failed to stop Sakura, she could have end up destroying everyone. Basically because you value the few, you put the many at risks. Do you think Shirou could have kept his sanity if he failed? In the bad end where Saber is alive, Shirou's mind was basically break when he sees Sakura tortures RIn. Shirou didn't turn into Kiritsugu simply because he wasn't faced with the reality where everyone was killed due to his mistakes. Yes, you killed many, but you also saved many. At the end of the other scales, more bad guys were killed, so you're a superhero to the ones you choose to save. If it wasn't for Kiritsugu, there wouldn't be Shirou to make this choice. You think Kiritsugu should have chosen the Grail instead or something? You think if it was Shirou in Kiritsugu's position, he would be right to sacrifice everyone on Earth for Sakura? Kiritsugu is a hero because he can make tough choices, even at the cost of his own happiness. He makes choices that an average man wouldn't be able to make.
Visitormassacre No, that choice happens because Shirou decides to spare Saber, allowing Saber to come back and help Sakura fight off Rin. Once again, it shows that because Shirou chooses to side with the people he loves, he ends up losing everything. As good and bad are relative, it's up to the people who you side with, and if you think of yourself as hero of justice, you would side against the people you think as "bad: and save who you deem as good, in the end, people would be saved, better than prolonging the conflicts and more people from both sides would be killed. Kiritisugu killed the ones he love, his "mother", so I doubt he thinks the world as black and white. Going back to Kiritsugu's decisions, it was all based on the logic of killing the few to save the many, and whenever he chooses to spare someone, it ends up biting him in the ass. He chooses to spare Shirley, she ends up destroying the island, he chooses to evacuate the hotel, the master got away. By allowing emotions got in the way, he allows more people to be killed as a result.
Visitormassacre That was the last bad end where Saber is already down. The choice to interfere leads to a different End. It's easiest for Kiritsugu to kill his "mom"?
Sigma grindset EMIYA.
We just got flat-out rejected by Tiger Dojo... :(
Nasu should make this into a route or an anime or whatever and show how he wins the grail war by himself
Basically he becomes Kaleid Shirou and wins the war himself 😂
So for Shirou to have won either Gilgamesh decided to help him win for the lulz or more darkly he used his existing friendships to get close to the masters like Rin and kill them when their guards were down. Then again he'd still need help with killing Zoukens servant.
I honestly believe this is a better ending than the Normal End. Better for Sakura to die than to live as an empty shell wasting away and deceiving herself all her life. At least it's honest and the suffering ends here. I am truly sad this isn't the way to get the Normal End. Well, this or Sparks Liner High. The Normal Ending is so cruel to Sakura I can't stand it.
that’s the normal end and there’s a true end.
Yes, and I'm saying I'd rather have this as the Normal End.
@@ZambonieDude Yes, and I believe this is a better ending than the normal ending and I wish the normal end would've been bittersweet this way instead of just stirahgt-up suffering for all parties.
Don't you think this end is like Shirou's version of HF normal end? Shirou did become a hero of justice just like he wanted, but at the same time he's deceiving himself too. Like Illya said at the start of this ending. Also its said that Shirou kills Rin,Illyaa,and Zouken in this end. He probably have no trace of humanity left in him after the war, having let Sakura died, and killed both Rin and Ilya.
How is this bittersweet? Everyone dies, and Emiya Shirou becomes a soulless killing machine before finally dying, alone and unloved.
There should be a continuation of this choice
かわいそうなシロウ。そんな泣きそうな顔のまま、これからずっと、自分を騙して生きていくのね。
Tiger Dojo is so quiet, because both Taiga and Illya.... have really nothing to say. There is no "one mistake" this IS Shirou's future if he does not find something to keep him grounded.
His body might be made of swords-
But his mind is made of steel
"saving" her was another word for stalling the inevitable
Why do I get the feeling that this choice was originally meant to trigger the Illya Route...
Because they've said as much?
Pretty sure this ending also creates an emiya alter
This ending is depressing. When I first encountered it several years ago I actually cringed. To see many fans liking this one weirded me out.
[UNLIMITED LOST WORKS]
This is the best ending. Every moment of Sakura's existence means people will die. People who matter, people who don't. People who have loved ones, people who are alone. In a sample of 100 people eaten by Sakura at least one of them will have others who cry so hard their tears turn to blood over the fact that they're dead. This is the correct route.
+Johnaoatan
Lazy-thinking by Shirou, echoing the lazy-thinking of his father. Cyclical cycles of karma are cyclical.
Judging by the fact that he's saying this is a good ending, I don't think he would choose his significant other in that scenario. This entire ending is one giant slippery slope fallacy, as is the grail's vision to Kiritsugu.
@@phantombroker6856 easier said than done
Well, so far I don't think she's actually killed anyone. Correct me if I'm wrong though. And there are a whole lot of options that Shirou could have gone through that would have very likely allowed pretty much everyone to stay alive. For instance, although he didn't know that Archer could do it, Archer could have severed Sakura's connection with the Shadow, and very like with Zouken as well, via Rule Breaker. And even though Shirou didn't know this at the time, he could have still asked Archer if he has any method of potentially saving her. And although Archer doesn't know much about the Shadow at this point, he still knows about Zouken, or could learn about Zouken's connection with Sakura and think "Rule Breaker could probably do something about that" and that would have fixed the entire thing without either Sakura, or innocent civilians dying.
I'll admit though that out of the endings in Heaven's Feel, this is a better one for the world as a whole, Shirou himself might not be in the best situation, but for everyone else it is. At least for the Heaven's Feel routes. The Fate and UBW Routes might be a bit better for pretty much everyone though.
Here after watching heaven's feel spring song. Wow
So uh... why did people think this is the origin for emiya alter?
Because, unlike Garcher, Alter EMIYA doesn’t have the slightest sense of humanity or kindness, he would kill even someone who was good to him if it was necessary to reach the "greater good", just like Shiro from this ending, which I personally I don't consider it that bad.
If what many people believe is true than this Shirou future is to become Emiya Alter.
I mean, I actually like this end.
Ok I recently finished fate zero now I truly know what ilya meant about kiritsugu... this is soo sad
Yeah and if Shirou really took this path, then history will repeat itself
Lol, no. Shirou would be as cold as Kiritsugu, but the methods would differ. After all, Shirou is the type to go head-on.
So... Is this technically how EMIYA Alter comes into existence? Like, the natural birth of an Alter? Not any sort of corruption or anything, just... Literally one "wrong" choice, and he's now on the path to becoming an Alter.
Emiya alter isn't mos
this ending is the most famous ending in fate/stay night
Kevin Jimenez sparks liner high. end 39
^
I think this is the route of emiya alter.
This is the one true end.
this ending has some connection to fate/zero.
No fate/zero has Some Connection to this ending.
^
Shirou still wins the Holy Grail War? Hasn't he lost Saber at this point, though? With what tool will he win the War? Rin still has Archer, and Illya still has Berserker. Does Shirou make a contract with Rider or something? As much as he wants to be, Shirou is not Kiritsugu. Additionally, at this point in the story, Shirou can't use his Projection magic (nor realized that it's his true strength) like he does a bit in Fate and heavily in Unlimited Blade Works. Between True Assassin, Archer, and Berserker, I'm not sure who would actually win. Archer and Berserker are immensely powerful, and True Assassin is only held off by Rider, and killed by Kirei (who no longer has a reason to interfere).
with lies and deception he can lure his allies and assasinate them when they least suspect. He will use any means necesary to win the war and end it, just like kiritsugu did
jedimasterpickle3 True assassin is only held off by rider?No the only reason he beat saber and lancer is because Sakura's shadow helped him.When saber was trapped she still was able stop his NP.true assassin is generally the weakest servant in the 5th grail war.
Well, Shirou might not have a Servant, but he can still assassinate the least powerful Masters or at least the ones who are less expecting a backstab.
He could be waiting in the shadows to see what happens, then make his move to finish everything. Or... it could go like this: (please, indulge in my imagination)
I can see Shirou still remaining an ally to Rin, even though he's not a Master, because he simply can't stand still knowing the Holy Grail War may cause countless casualties before it ends.
Rin, of course, doesn't agree with Shirou's actions, but she'll eventually concede and accept his help because, since he won't stop at all, at least she can keep an eye on him and protect him.
Plus, having just killed Sakura, whom she loved very much despite not revealing it, her mind must be too focused on getting the Holy Grail and wishing her back to life to notice anything odd with Shirou.
Archer might notice something, but Shirou can always goad Rin to submit him with a Command Spell. And with no Caster around with Rule Breaker, Archer can't betray Rin this time.
During this time of alliance, Rin will have the time needed to teach Shirou about his true magic and how to use it, which will end up proving not only useful for their fight, but vital for the eventual outcome.
Rin and Archer could fight Berserker head on, while Shirou sneaks around and kills Illya when Berserker is too pressed to come and rescue her in time. Granted, Berserker would not fade away instantly, but Archer can hold him off until he does. Rin knows nothing about Shirou having being close to Illya once, so she doesn't suspect his willingness to do this. (though Archer might actually try to kill him for it) >;P
Zouken only has True Assassin now that he lost Sakura, so he just basically lost this Grail War ugly. (so much for all that scheming...)
Needless to say, Archer can easily kill True Assassin now that he has no Shadow to back him up, plus Archer doesn't fight like a regular hero so Assassin has a tougher time trying to counter him.
They might not be able to kill Zouken, but just by eliminating True Assassin, he is out of the War for good.
The only real problem I see is Gilgamesh. He too is still around during this time and I don't know how exactly they could've countered him. Archer, unlike Shirou in UBW, is still a Servant and Gil knows that, so he's not gonna drop his guard as much as he did during UBW. If anyone can come up with a way this trio could overcome him, be my guess. :P
Aaaaaand, to wrap it all up... after dealing with all these opponents, not necessarily in this order, Rin finally thinks she can bring Sakura back to life using the Holy Grail, *until she's stabbed in the back by Shirou.*
You see, as long as the Holy Grail exists, there will be another Holy Grail War. And as such, another possibility of disasters happening. Such as the fire 10 years ago. Shirou can't let that happen.
Rin is too lost in her sorrow to be dealt with reason. Or that's what he thinks. She is so obssessed with reviving Sakura and making ammends with her sister for abandoning and killing her that she will not listen to Shirou's reason. She will not stop. She has to die.
Archer, being held back by the Command Spell, cannot stop him. And even if he could, would he? The "Holy Grail" is a threat against humanity and, being a Counter-Guardian, Archer couldn't just let it exist, even if it means letting Rin die and Shirou walk a path similar or identical to his.
As soon as the Holy Grail appears, Shirou kills Rin and destroys the Holy Grail. With his Projection magic. Magic that Rin helped him perfect.
*And thus, Emiya Shirou saved the world. He destroyed the Holy Grail, ended the Holy Grail Wars and became a Hero of Justice.*
EDITTED BECAUSE I FOUND SOME ANNOYING TYPOS _(goddammit!)_
MrDibara except shirou doesn't know any projection that is strong enough to destroy the grail. I would think that he would make a contract with Archer since they both now have a mutual goal to destroy the grail. Shirou would use all his command seals to give enough mana for Archer to project Excalibur and destroy it to bits thus killing Archer himself. By the way, doesn't shirou have Kiritsugu's contender back at the house locked up somewhere? I doubt kiritsugu buried it somewhere.
@@JayWalkZ Man, it's been over a year, I had even forgotten I wrote this comment. _(damn! forgot I used to be that eloquent)_
Well, Thompson Contender is a thing of beauty, but unlike Miyuverse Shirou, Stay Night Shirou wasn't really knowledgeful of his stepfather's hystory and way of life. So even if Kiritsugu hid the Contender somewhere, I doubt Shirou knows it even exists, mych less how to use it.
Btw, I like your idea of Shirou and Archer making a begrundged alliance at the last minute due to "Angry Matthew" almost materializing. I can picture some really bitter interactions between them, like how Archer saw Shirou's betrayal from a milestone, but did not warn Rin because, like Shirou, he knows the Grail needs to be destroyed and Rin probably wouldn't allow that at that point.
It sure wouldn't be a sweet farewell for the two Heroes of Justice, specially Archer. Having to die while watching your younger self follow a path possibly worst than your own, while being unable to do anything to stop it... Man, I better stop right here. This is getting deep!
Is there any LOGICAL way for him to win the war at this point?
Killing the masters?
How? Invite them for tea and poison them?
Haziq Humaidi If necessary. Any sort of ambush, any trick, or sneaky move, it doesn't matter To become 'Kiritsugu Emiya' means that there wouldn't be any line he wouldn't cross.
Hell, he might even wait for them to kill one another, and then kill whomever won the battle.
I wonder if there's a fic based on this ending...
meh
Archer'll probably waste him, now that he's an even bigger mess than what he originally used to be.
And That is How Emiya Alter was Born
Why is this Endingconsidered to be a bad end? Yeah killing Sakura sucks, but why is everyone so hung up on not liking or pitying Shirou for it? Why is it bad that one girl has to be killed to save the entire world? Wouldn't that make everyone else evil if they want her to live but everyone else dies instead? This actually fits with how F/SN is all about deconstructing the concept of being a hero and that you can't always save everyone. So by that logic, this ending would fit perfect with that idea. So why is it still wrong in the end?
***** well sakura is a joke of a heroine. i think nasu wants one ending where shirou becomes his dad idk
It's basically considered a bad end because this is where he becomes Archer. Emiya turns into his father. Though for such a broken character it really is a perfect ending.
+jamal munir
Fate Shirou had the best chance to become Archer. HF Shirou has the best chance of becoming his father. Archer and Kiritsugu are two very different people, although I could understand how they seem similar. But remember, EMIYA wanted to terminate his existence from the multiverse because he *hated* how twisted his desires to help others became, how he had annihilated millions for the sake of unborn trillions, all across an infinite number of timelines and probability chains.
Kiritsugu simply wanted to his lifetime of fucked-up choices validated as meaningful and heroic. Archer simply wanted to paradox himself to oblivion and prevent the countless iterations of his younger self across the Kaleidescope (who he's been defeating/killing in nearly every timeline in which Shirou Emiya becomes an active participant of the Grail War) from ever taking up the ideals of Kiritsugu.
I do agree with you that given the choices made to achieve this ending, and given his background as an adopted son of Kiritsugu, this is a good ending for Shirou Emiya.
Farscryer0 For me I also always thought out of the three routes that Fate Shirou is the one who has the most chance of becoming Archer as well. It makes a lot of sense for him to become Archer since he stuck to the naïve ideal all the way without opposition. Though they added in that ending for him in Realta Nua where he goes to Avalon so that's pretty much impossible now.
+Sanic Speed And yet Sakura could possible kill nearly everyone on the planet. Billions of people would die. How is that something that's worth risking?
So with this ending Shirou will follow his ideals and become the Archer we know in the future?
+Mei Misaki
No. Fate-route Shirou has the best chance of becoming Archer. With this route and this choice, Shirou would become a second Magus Killer like his adopted father.
No. This Shirou will become crushed by his ideal. Now... He will become nothing but a shallow empty shell...
This Shirou will become EMIYA Alter.
GohanLSSJ2 Close to but not actually EMIYA Alter. That guy's trauma came from dealing with Kiara and her cultists.
MoreEvilThanYahweh Who's to say he didn't fell to despair then, but the initial move that made him follow that path is the Mind of Steel end?
GohanLSSJ2 Kiara's from the Extraverse and their Shirou didn't go through the events of F/SN.
Emiya Alter, here we come.
Imma Xehanort So, as I pray.... [Unlimited Lost Works]
6:00 is a typo. Its more like EPIC END.
It's cool that he hardened his resolve to beat Zouken, Ilya, and Tohsaka and win it all..
Just, how is he going to do all that? He doesn't even have Saber!
Via the classic method that's not used all too often. Kill the Master and the Servant dies too. Shirou has shown repeatedly that when he actually puts his mind to something, he can achieve wonders. And all of the Masters are people that Shirou is at least capable of killing, especially when you realize that Shirou's actually pretty smart. He could just blow up the entirety of Zouken's compound with explosives. Shoot Rin through the head when she's not paying attention, whether with a gun or a bow, since both should be capable of killing her with her guard down. And that's not even considering the fact that he could very likely poison Rin. Illya is a bit more difficult and it'd also probably have to either be a situation where he gets the drop on her. Or if she get's cocky and gets too close to him, and he figures out how to project something with velocity.
"bad" end
@Ainz So where is the bad ending? I only see the best result of all and the perfect ending
@Ainz sounds like a win to everyone else brother
@@blunt005it's not a win, even Nasu says it's not a win. Shirou kills himself off emotionally and is nothing but a empty shell again
He becomes emyia alter
@@void-rj8hb that's headcanon
this is a cool ending that should be continued
I didn't played it yet. But lets be honest I will choose this path. Atleast for once.
This is probably where Emiya Alter originated from
According to Nasu he just drops dead after this
Divergent opinions aren't trolling. Kiritsugu's path had merit, as did Archer's.
This would’ve been a fire route that’s all I’m saying
Fate/Emiya when?
NoMoarNoMoar yes
Bad ending what you mean it’s a Shirou with eight hair as a lad it’s lite
Seigi no mikata
I don't know but i didn't even hesitate to protect sakura!
Simon Lucena Because obviously, your personal live is more important than others lives.
To be more specific, my loved one's personal live is more important than others personal lives.
So is this the path for EMIYA alter?
i hope ufotable will took these route on the movie and shows what lies beyond this decision in honor of fate zero #what
He will be used by other to kill and kill. Innocent or guilty alike, become a mass murder for some one. At the end, even more pitiful than Archer. Remember, one that blindly follow a flawed and flickering concept like "justice" are easy to exploide. After he has no use, he'll be kill conveniently, thus end the live a pitiful murderer.
There are more than two choices. Life is not binary for example you can:
1)Kill everyone
2)Save Everyone
3)Runaway and let the situation sort itself out.
One thing really bothers me about this entire scenario is how black and white it's portrayed. If Shirou chooses to save Sakura then all of a sudden he'll turn a blind eye to her actions until it's too late then he'll separate her from the shadow curse when things go really bad and can't be ignored anymore. Honestly, why can't he look for a way to save Sakura and make sure she doesn't kill anyone?
Then on the other hand if he chooses to kill Sakura he'll become like Kiritsugu and all of a sudden and may be ruthless enough to also kill innocent people if the situation calls for it. This begs me to ask what makes mos Shirou and Kiritsugu killing innocents when the situation calls for it okay? I thought they wanted to prevent casualties yet they have no problem causing casualties when it suits their ends. I want to know why when Sakura kills she's viewed as a threat but when Kiritsugu kills its viewed as a necessity. If anything both should be viewed as bad.
That aside, l don't really get killing Sakura on day 9 since she didn't do anything wrong and she even saved Shirou twice so he should at least try to save her in return but mind of steel Shirou didn't even try to help. Also, killing someone because something bad might happen in the future is flimsy because the future can always change and is too uncertain. Again, saving Sakura doesn't suddenly mean letting everyone in Fuyuki die. Who's to say she couldn't be cured before going berserk? Who's to say Fuyuki couldn't be evacuated? Not everything needs to be black and white. But if we're gonna kill people for what they might do in the future then everybody is on the chopping block starting with mos Shirou especially if he becomes a counter guardian. The worst part about mos Shirou is that he doesn’t care about people at all. He just treats them like objects in need of saving one moment and will kill them if the situation calls for it at another moment. Just like Kiritsugu, Mos Shirou is loyal only to his ideology alone but that's to be expected from a nutcase who never got therapy for his trauma. In fate extra, Shirou becomes an unaccountable law breaking vigilante/mercenary/terrorist who kills innocence along with the guilty for his own self-gratification of “becoming a hero” then justifies their deaths as meaningful sacrifices as if those people ever asked to be sacrificed and he doesn’t do anything to help those caught in the crossfire and left injured due to his escapades just like Kiritsugu. Seriously, the emiya alter backstory where he offs an entire church in the one manga made me hate shirou so much but I guess killing is okay when counter guardians/heroes of justice do it and wrong when others do it.
Sometimes, I think the reason Archer emiya wanted to stop being a counter guardian was that he realized that he would just keep killing and killing even the people he once saved would die at his hands eventually and no true change was actually occurring. Merely increasing body count doesn’t solve problems all the time since we also need people like doctors who can heal and construction workers to build things instead of living a trail of destruction.
On the other hand, heavens feel Shirou was too damn passive and didn’t look for a way to save Sakura until she went full berserk mode. However, I do think the real test begins when we have to choose to kill Sakura after she goes berserk but being passive like Hf Shirou instead of actively looking for a cure is not a good thing. Though I do think that for all his talk about becoming a hero Shirou is too passive and rarely does heroic things until the situation really calls for it. Anyway, I may agree with killing Sakura after the first real berserk stage, but l don't support it one bit since l view Sakura as innocent either way since she has been abused and is pretty much possessed thus not acting of her own accord so separating her from Angry Matthew would be the real solution. Then l would punish the people who made her suffer so they wouldn't do to others what they did to Sakura especially Zouken because if not dealt with he'll just find someone else and restart the cycle.
Lastly, l think Sakura is a symptom of the real issue, which is the holy grail war, Tokiomi not giving her to a good family and madmen like Zouken and Shinji abusing her for who knows how long. If it weren't for these things Sakura would not be in this situation. Also, the same thing about being symptoms of deeper issues can apply to counter guardians and people like Kiritsugu otherwise situations like this will keep on repeating themselves endlessly. So even if Shirou kills Sakura he still needs to punish the people who wronged her in the first place then make sure a situation like this and the holy grail wars don't happen again.
Again, sacrificing the few for the many just prolongs the inevitable if the real problems aren't dealt with. Plus, if not careful it creates more problems like the death of innocents, destruction of property and livelihoods, revenge-seeking from those who lost their loved ones, or the cops trying to arrest the one who sacrificed others lives. Also, it's ironic that those who preach about the needs of the many want to go about enforcing what they believe to be the needs of the many when it's actually their own personal individual beliefs of what they think the majority wants.
Side note: How is mos shirou going to win the war? He has no servant, has poor magecraft, Archer still wants to kill him, Illya and berserker will show him no mercy, he barely survived against zouken the first time, Kirei and Gil have their own plans, and he doesn't have the equipemnt or skill kiritsugu had. Even if he still allies with Rin and Kirei gives him Gil it's still a very risky situation because the latter can betray them at any time and I don't think they'll be as lucky as fate or ubw
This is honestly one of the comments that I agree with the most. There's a whole lot of room between doing nothing and killing her. They could also try and move Sakura elsewhere, since the Shadow likely has a certain range that it has to stay in. Overall, one of Shirou's biggest character flaws that I think a lot of people don't talk about is how passive/stagnant he is. He doesn't change things by himself, he doesn't make the first move a lot of the time, and he doesn't think up new ideas all too often. For instance, once he has the ideal of becoming a superhero, he sets that ideal in himself, and he practices his magecraft that his father taught him. And he does that for six years with pretty much no progress. Now I'll admit his ability to persevere even when it looks like he's not making progress is somewhat admirable. But there were so many other options that he could have done if he stopped being so passive. Once he decides to start doing something he's really quite good at it. For instance, in the route that Archer took, it's at least implied that Shirou went from high school to war with not much time in between.
There is a slight bit that I disagree with at the end of your comment. While Sakura is a victim, that doesn't make her innocent. She killed a lot of people that she wasn't forced to. And while Sakura is a victim of Zouken and Shinji. Shinji is a victim of Zouken as well, but that doesn't make what he did to Sakura any better. Just like how technically Hitler, and most of Nazi Germany, were victims of the Treaty of Versailles. But that doesn't make what they did any better either. Although I do want to clarify that I'm talking about Sakura after her rampage. I'm not of the group that's willing to kill people for things that they might do in the future. Unless we're talking someone holding a gun to someone's head, in which case I could make a fair argument for that being something that's happening in the present.
What would you have had HF Shirou do exactly?
Mind of steel route never.
6:25 too cute