Breathability is more complex than simply "one is better than the other". Membranes which are more breathable when it is not raining may become less breathable when you're in heavy rain, particularly if the jacket starts to wet out. It's really not about finding the best membrane. It's about finding the best compromise for your use case.
I don't profess to know better or worse concerning the materials but I have been using this link as a guide. I think this was the idea you were speaking of. www.sierra.com/lp2/waterproof-guide/?osid=prodspec-bg
I have used a Futurelight jacket for 8 months. It is now NOT waterproof. A few minutes in even moderate rain you’ve got water coming through. Really disappointing for a £500 ‘waterproof’ jacket.
Longevity is a huge issue with modern outdoor gear. Lightness is the enemy of longevity and we all like light. I had a 3-layer Goretex Mammut jacket for 17 years before it became leaky in downpours. Next I had a lightweight Montane Minimus Pertex Shield2 and that lasted 18 months before it was just a windproof. Marvellous when new but hopeless lifetime. Currently trying a Rab 3-layer goretex (Kangri) which is in-between in weight (and cost). We shall see how long that lasts.
You have to maintain most hardshells with spray-on waterproof treatment, they'll last a very long time if you regularly do that. Yeah it's a annoying, honestly for heavy rain I'd rather just get a non breathable poncho with much more airflow on the inside and for a fraction of the price of a $300-800usd hardshell jacket that won't be able to breathe once it's been saturated with water.
Goretex Shakedry beats everything in waterproofing and breathability. 50,000mm waterproofing 80,000g/m²/24hr breathability It’s also a lot more durable than people think. Lots of people have used them heavily with backpacks, myself included, with no signs of wear. No DWR, no need to retreat, never wets out.
Yes, probably worth including in our next chat on the topic. I think they've actually toughened it up in the last year. Might be wrong though. Will
3 года назад+2
Interesting, never heard of it. Just looked that one up, now all I found so far are just some basic super light men's cycling jackets. Last time I bought one of these ultra light jacket (pack-lite) the inner layer worn out in no time. When it comes to "durability' it definitely is subject to personal interpretation. What a hiker or backpacker calls durable isn't what a rock climber will call durable. People often confuse the DWR coating durability to the actual membrane durability. In your comment at least DWR is out of the picture but I am absolutely not convinced about the durability of these shakedry product. Considering resistance to abrasion and constant friction against other material or structure. Frankly as I fish in the pacific northwest and go after salmon even when we have weather hazard warning. (70kmph wind, 70-100mm of rain) I am still out there in the middle of the storm for hours. I'd spend 6 to 8 hours fishing on regular rainy days. Actually wading around, getting the jackets to dip in the river and all. So I'd be happy to have an option for breathability and resistance to abrasion, I can't really hope for much in terms of DWR but I can tell you that if the zippers or seams aren't done properly, I'll find out very quickly! I rarely see anyone diving super deep in the details of the YKK zipers. They all say "aquaguard" or sometime aquaseal. Yet there are so many aspects of zippers that fall under there categories. Also who's going to cover the "Cordura vs Nylon" the twisting of the treading and all the real fabric engineering that actually make a difference between a membrane that's going to be well protected vs a membrane that is layered with lightweight, yet super weak material, lots of cycling folks are complaining about the shakedry's wear and tear, they all say it's a wonderful product and performs super well except that you need a new one every 6 months (again, brands are supposed to design and engineer around the membrane). Lightweight shell is cool, practical and easy to wear, would I consider taking that sailing or some of the rugged river fishing spot I go to, probably not. Mustang (EP 6.5 OCEAN RACING) is the "overkill" jacket like you wouldn't belive, how much do you hear about it in reviews or anything? NEVER but it's the toughest jacket I've ever experienced. Would I take it skiing or trail running? No but I'll take that out sailing or fishing during rain storm any day! When I search around RUclips or the internet about the membrane and jackets geeks. I always see the same, we all own 5 jackets or more and still looking for that ONE hell of a jacket that would combine all the tech together. Bottom line is, there is none, the membrane is a choice to be made, the whole difference comes with what the jacket brand's design and engineering team is going to do around the membrane. I still don't even take my Acrteryx alpha SV out fishing, wouldn't trust my N_F summit to sustain the volume of water I face while fishing, and yet I don't like how weak the dedicated fishing rain jackets are only with only half ass engineered outer layers of 50 or 70N-Denier and costing the price of high end jackets.
Really interesting to listen about the real experience of a guys who spent a lot of time in mountains. Most of discussions on this topic are just about asking a questions without any answers or just comparing membrains in the laboratory. But here you see the real experience of using them... AND in the same time you see that guys are not completely sure for 100% about comparing that membrains because it's impossible to make true tests of 2-3 different membrains in the same conditions and the same activity (and more than that, with the same outer shell, which is important too). I read between the lines that Futurelight is lighter and more flexible than Gore-Tex Pro, but you're not completely confident if it holds well in a really different conditions (maybe it will, we just can ask guys now again, there were 3 years more to test fabrics and have more impressions)
Dermizax has left the chat... If you are looking for long time performance and durability without DWR reapplication and clogging pores, I thinks its the best option.
Yeh probably deserved a mention actually. We've got a video on a Dermizax membrane jacket here in case of interest: ruclips.net/video/9Da64GTFne8/видео.html&feature=emb_title
I used neoshell for a few years but switched to Toray's Dermizax NX. In my experience it's like a more waterproof & breathable version of neoshell. It's soft, stretchy and doesn't rustle. It's comfortable to wear and highly waterproof. Breathability feels similar to my older Mountain Hardwear DryQ elite shell (around 40k MTVR) while being more durable. It's less air permeable than neoshell so more comfortable in windy conditions. Bergans make some great 3L dermizax NX shells such as the Slingsby and the Rabot 3L. Its also featured in some mega money ski brands such as Kjus. Toray let other manufacturers use their fabrics as own brand high-end membranes so they haven't really promoted Dermizax as a brand in the way Gore. I haven't tried futurelight but TNF customer care let me down twice in the last 3 years so I'd need to be very convinced of its durability (which I'm not yet) . I've also tried a light running shell from Haglofs that had amazing breathability. 50k+ MTVR. They seem to be improving their own PU membrane hugely. I believe they work with Toray also.
What about "OutDry Extreme" from Columbia Sportswear? Have you tried that? The membrane is on the outside of the product and needs no DWR. The have an Eco one too.
If you do alpine climbing and stuff where your life depends on staying dry.. Gore-Tex is perfect. For the 95% is that walk in rain and hike in it twice a year.. H2NO, Futurelite, Dry.Q, etc.. they work more than well enough. My last Patagonia jacket lasted five years and I only upgraded it cause I’d lost a bunch of weight and it was huge. My current Slate Sky should last me a decade. Gore Tex does have an ePE option that’s not as toxic to the environment. I know the Triolet jacket uses it.. expensive stuff though.
It’s interesting discussing apples to oranges in terms of performance. Gore-Tex seems to stand alone in the extremely durable/waterproof arena but I think the discussion around hyper-breathable membranes is still worthwhile - any thoughts on AscentShell and other electrospun membranes vs Futurelight. I also think the inclusion of Gore-Tex stretch is interesting as I believe this was introduced because it was dropped by the North Face (in their Apex Flex line)
Hey Irvine. It's a Gore-tex prototype to demonstrate their latest Gore-tex Pro developments. The 66 North Hornstrandir is very, very similar. Here's my review of that jacket: ruclips.net/video/T6LMWiqj39U/видео.html
Would you still recommend futurelight as a viable option vs Gore tex? Or Is Gore Tex the way to go in 2024? (feel like I'm in a back to the future movie). Great video! Love the side by side "argument"
I have multiple Futurelight jackets. All bought with >50% discount in the TNF Outlet or at online retailers. I'm super fond of he Flight Series jacket that's very thin and packable, super breathable and fully waterproof, even in big downpours with heavy wind. It lives my bag on days with mostly fair weather and I put it on when it starts to rain, so really as a rainshell with amazing breathability. So much so that you don't notice that you're actually wearing a jacket. I can't use it with a backpack. I also have other Futurelight jackets, the Impendor, Tente, Dryzzle Insulated Futurelight/Ventrux Combo. The Impendor works fine for hikes without a 4kg+ backpack. Made of Polyester it's less durable than the heavier Nylon versions. Great breathability, and less fragile than the thin Flight Series jacket. The Tente didn't last even one downpour as it immediately started wetting through. That's what I read often in Futurelight jackets user reviews, quite a lot of jackets fail within the first few uses in wet conditions, a manufacturing quality issue rather than a fabric quality issue. I sent it to TNF under warranty, was told it wasn't repairable and as the Tente was no longer available I received a replacement Flex Futurelight jacket. I subsequently sold the Flex Futurelight jacket as it was to similar to the Impendor Futurelight but warmer and becease of the very nice inner liner slightly heavier whilst I prefer a shell to be just protecting from wet and windy conditions, without adding weight for insulation. It impressed as a super comfortabele autumn wet weather jacket but as it was completely new I prefered to sell it and keep the Impendor. Ever though I prefer a waterproof jacket not to be insulated st the same time, I must say I really enjoy wearing the Futurelight/Ventrix combo jacket as well which is great for hiking in say -2°C - 8°C and (windy) weather with showers of rain. You feel again like almost not wearing a jacket because it's extremely good at keeping you dry and extremely breathable. In similar weather with less rain I'd wear my Active Insulated jacket (Style Patagonia Nano Air, Arc'teryx Atom LT) but the Futurelight/Ventrix combo is perfect when I expect heavier rain showers (In continuous rain it'd be a Gore Tex hardshell) With the Tente Futurelight jacket missing I still didn't have my desired (hopefully) durable rugged Futurelight hardshell so I just ordered a Champang Futurelight jacket with Nylon fabric at 52% discount, for use as a durable rugged and extremely breathable hardshell jacket for alpine hiking with a backpack. All of the Futurelight jackets I've worn have EXTREMELY good breathability and all but the Tente survived every weather that was thrown at them, including the dry + sunny weather where you'd normally take of the hardshell but no need because of the amazing breathability. You just have to keep in mind to test their waterproofness/manufacturing quality in a downpour BEFORE taking of all the tags and use them for what they should be: Waterproof Hardshell jackets. Two relatives own the Dryzzle Futurelight. They are both really happy with it, but I find the fabric to rigged and noisy. My Impendor is much suppler, thinner and softer. The Flex had also a much more comfortable fabric than the Dryzzle. If you want a jacket that can handle days of continuous rain, alpine conditions and the best durability, Gore Tex (Pro) is probably still the better option, but maybe the Chamlang jacket will prove me wrong. With Futurelight still not as well known as Gore Tex and TNF having so many different models in their Futurelight range, with every season new colours and models, it's very easy to find extremely discounted items if you're patient, especially compared to Gore Tex jackets where especially the €300+ models hardly ever get more than 25% discounted. That's how I ended with so many Futurelight jackets, and till now I'd recommend them all over a similarly priced Gore Tex jacket, as long as you keep in mind to test their manufacturing quality thoroughly before common use. My warranty claim with the Tente was handled swift and fair. I'd probably give a wholy different recommendation if it were otherwise..
Used many membranes over 30 years of outdoor guiding climbing and military service. Gortex is the best hands down. Furthermore Im tired of people who obviously have never tortured themselves and clothing bitching about DWR. DWR wears out it must be replaced that issue is dead. Now, What most fail to champion is breathability during hard aerobic use under horrid conditions is key to being safe and comfortable. I live in massive extreme swing weather conditions in western mountains of Canada. Wind, rain, snow in all shapes and forms is normal as well as heat. Wetting out is a minor issue and fixable. The ability to pass heat and vapor through fabrics while under exertion in high wind low moisture and temps is important. Nothing beats top end pro gortex for durability and breathability under those conditions. If you are not hard on gear and only a weekend warrior not in the Outback and or under extreme conditions a cheaper membrane can do fine.
Hi thanks for the feedback on the gore jacket. George has the L5 summit jacket without a powder skirt. Do the pants attach to the jacket making this not needed? He was skiing in some steep and deep powder in those excellent videos.
How about Helly Hansen professional 3L; I use them for years and seem extremely durable breathable and take reproofing extremely well. Now HH has the new infinity membrane without the use of DWR.
@@SPYROSMANTZAKOS Oh right. I'd say Helly Hansen's new fabric is actually much tougher. I wouldn't say the water resistance was good as it tends to be on a new Gore-Tex Pro jacket. But then, over time, I'd expect the Helly Hansen to win (in the water repellency stakes) in the long run as Gore-Tex Pro's DWR tends to wear out pretty quickly in my experience. I haven't had a chance to use any Nikwax on my HH yet - would be very curious to see the effect it has. Will
@@OutdoorsMagicTVi tend to agree on that. I would really love to see a long term review after some months or year, on the new lifa membrane and how it holds up. You have the best video review on the membrane until know!
There is nothing wrong with plastics derived fabrics when it’s from recycled plastics. We need to recycle the endless supply of plastics in our planet.
Hi Andrew, He's wearing a sample jacket from Gore, one that demonstrates all three versions of the new Gore-Tex Pro. Unfortunately I don't think it's ever been on the market. Best, Will
My north face venture 2 jacket made with dryvent 2.5L is definitely waterproof but the breathability is almost none existent. I now use it on my motorbike when it rains and even then I still get some condensation on the inside. My goretex jacks are far superior in breathability but you do still get some condensation. However I’ve noticed with goretex the condensation seems to come and go. I’ve just bought a futurelight jacket so I’m hoping for the big jump I’m breathability.
Hi David, it's a sample that Gore-Tex sent us to demonstrate their new fabric. It's not something that will end up in stores - at least I don't think so anyway. Will
In my opinion Gore tex just doesn't perform that well. DWR wears off quickly. Breathability is poor even on the very best jackets. I have had Arteryx Theta SVX £600, Norrona Recon £550, Patagonia Puma £550, Fjelraven Eco shell Parka £550. All the jackets DWR wore of very quickly, the best the Theta lasted 3 weeks, after this no amount of reproofing works longer than a week. I got all the money back for the jackets under warranty. I won't be wasting anymore money expensive membrane jackets. I will stick with Paramo its not 100% waterproof but it breaths so much better. It's silent, soft and cheap
You stepped away from membranes because they needed constant reproofing, but went towards Paramo instead?! I have 5 or 6 garments from Paramo and hate how much effort I have to put into those to keep me dry. Without the Nikwax proofing my jackets wet out extremely fast even after all Tech Wash stuff, without constant reproofing, they are better windproofs unfortunately
The issue I have with your analysis is that it concerns fabric, not the membrane, which is what GoreTex (and the others) are focused on here: how waterproof/breathable/flexible are the garments that use these waterproof membranes. Put another way, GorTex Pro can be married to the same nylon shell fabric (where the DWR goes) as FutureLight or NeoShell.
@@gregors.5734 You’re the first person ever who has multiple branded fabrics fail in three weeks, that’s a world record! DWR wears off from sweaty oily fabrics. Maybe you have hyperhidrosis? For everyone else proper reapplication of DWR coat once in a while will give a many years of service. GoreTex is known for delimitation problem but others that have their own Neoshell spinoffs are durable.
@@OutdoorsMagicTV Hi, many thanks for the reply. That would be great if you could. Just such a spectacular shot both ascetically and technically. Loved it!
He's wearing a sample jacket from Gore, one that demonstrates all three versions of the new Gore-Tex Pro. Unfortunately I don't think it's ever been on the market. Will
@@Bushwacked487 . They use a windshirt ,was Epic by Nextec, silicone encapsulated thread, and Polartec Alpha Direct. They also have a non breathable jacket for heavy rain when not moving. The system works like the UK Buffalo and other pile pertex systems but is better suited to warmer weather. Part of the test was to be fully submerged while crossing a river in winter and not stopping to change clothing but to keep patrolling. Natick Labs and others carried out the research. You can try it out yourself by using a windshirt and Polartec Alpha Direct against the skin. Adjust the thickness etc depending on your metabolism.
Bla bla,goretex is better,no isn't true future light is better. Prove it ppl, prove it. After this we haven't get any conclusions,we need to buy both and try it 😂😂... tried future light... it's cheaper not better...
Yes some brand riain jacket are labeled Water resistance and that only works for light rain and wind proof and some are waterproof and windproof and Breathable and some are packable in a tube sack of both water resistant jacket and pants and breathable and those are considered a summer hot rain suit .
If it a $200. Dollars or $300. Dollars Fishing Tournament Gore-Tex waterproof jacket and bibs I would used "ATSKO Sport-wash made by Sno-Seal Laundry detergent," just added 2 cap filled lid and used cold water laundry in washer and dryer to low setting to dry both jacket and pants and do another low heat setting to drying fully . Or if you can find " Nikwax laundry detergent retreatment rainproof and body odor eliminator wash ," might work I know I have been using it for years in 1990 I have had Gore-Tex waterproof jacket and worn it out and grew up too big to fit me as a kid .
Sympatex destroys gore tex pro, better breathability and 45,000mm waterproof, also flexible I believe, been around since early 80s, you guys say best, it's just not
I have a sympatex purple ultimate coat from 80s90s still the best coat I've ever used and it's like 20 30+ years still great a little tlc needed... I did a lot of mountain biking with it for couple of years I was amazed how well it keeps Wind off waterout you warm but feels like your skin can breathe and not sweat get to hot as well happier planet seas🌿 can't go wrong with sympatex no pores as well vains soo no clogging like gortex do...
Breathability is more complex than simply "one is better than the other". Membranes which are more breathable when it is not raining may become less breathable when you're in heavy rain, particularly if the jacket starts to wet out. It's really not about finding the best membrane. It's about finding the best compromise for your use case.
for heavy rain there is simply solution rain poncho or umbrella ,everything else is overpriced compromis
Skin is the best waterproof / breathable outer layer & we all have it. Ski free in your skin.
Would love to see some kind of physical test comparing the waterproofing and breathability. No such content is available in youtube right now.
I don't profess to know better or worse concerning the materials but I have been using this link as a guide. I think this was the idea you were speaking of. www.sierra.com/lp2/waterproof-guide/?osid=prodspec-bg
ruclips.net/video/dtCdQfbLw7o/видео.html
This is what you're looking for.
Yes this is why I clicked the video, I was expecting some actual real world testing. Instead it was just 3 guys going off anecdotes.
I have pertex neoshell for the spring/summer, goretex pro for the autumn/winter, works for me.
I have used a Futurelight jacket for 8 months. It is now NOT waterproof. A few minutes in even moderate rain you’ve got water coming through. Really disappointing for a £500 ‘waterproof’ jacket.
Longevity is a huge issue with modern outdoor gear. Lightness is the enemy of longevity and we all like light. I had a 3-layer Goretex Mammut jacket for 17 years before it became leaky in downpours. Next I had a lightweight Montane Minimus Pertex Shield2 and that lasted 18 months before it was just a windproof. Marvellous when new but hopeless lifetime. Currently trying a Rab 3-layer goretex (Kangri) which is in-between in weight (and cost). We shall see how long that lasts.
You have to maintain most hardshells with spray-on waterproof treatment, they'll last a very long time if you regularly do that. Yeah it's a annoying, honestly for heavy rain I'd rather just get a non breathable poncho with much more airflow on the inside and for a fraction of the price of a $300-800usd hardshell jacket that won't be able to breathe once it's been saturated with water.
Goretex Shakedry beats everything in waterproofing and breathability.
50,000mm waterproofing
80,000g/m²/24hr breathability
It’s also a lot more durable than people think. Lots of people have used them heavily with backpacks, myself included, with no signs of wear. No DWR, no need to retreat, never wets out.
Yes, probably worth including in our next chat on the topic. I think they've actually toughened it up in the last year. Might be wrong though. Will
Interesting, never heard of it. Just looked that one up, now all I found so far are just some basic super light men's cycling jackets. Last time I bought one of these ultra light jacket (pack-lite) the inner layer worn out in no time. When it comes to "durability' it definitely is subject to personal interpretation. What a hiker or backpacker calls durable isn't what a rock climber will call durable. People often confuse the DWR coating durability to the actual membrane durability. In your comment at least DWR is out of the picture but I am absolutely not convinced about the durability of these shakedry product. Considering resistance to abrasion and constant friction against other material or structure. Frankly as I fish in the pacific northwest and go after salmon even when we have weather hazard warning. (70kmph wind, 70-100mm of rain) I am still out there in the middle of the storm for hours. I'd spend 6 to 8 hours fishing on regular rainy days. Actually wading around, getting the jackets to dip in the river and all. So I'd be happy to have an option for breathability and resistance to abrasion, I can't really hope for much in terms of DWR but I can tell you that if the zippers or seams aren't done properly, I'll find out very quickly! I rarely see anyone diving super deep in the details of the YKK zipers. They all say "aquaguard" or sometime aquaseal. Yet there are so many aspects of zippers that fall under there categories. Also who's going to cover the "Cordura vs Nylon" the twisting of the treading and all the real fabric engineering that actually make a difference between a membrane that's going to be well protected vs a membrane that is layered with lightweight, yet super weak material, lots of cycling folks are complaining about the shakedry's wear and tear, they all say it's a wonderful product and performs super well except that you need a new one every 6 months (again, brands are supposed to design and engineer around the membrane). Lightweight shell is cool, practical and easy to wear, would I consider taking that sailing or some of the rugged river fishing spot I go to, probably not. Mustang (EP 6.5 OCEAN RACING) is the "overkill" jacket like you wouldn't belive, how much do you hear about it in reviews or anything? NEVER but it's the toughest jacket I've ever experienced. Would I take it skiing or trail running? No but I'll take that out sailing or fishing during rain storm any day! When I search around RUclips or the internet about the membrane and jackets geeks. I always see the same, we all own 5 jackets or more and still looking for that ONE hell of a jacket that would combine all the tech together. Bottom line is, there is none, the membrane is a choice to be made, the whole difference comes with what the jacket brand's design and engineering team is going to do around the membrane. I still don't even take my Acrteryx alpha SV out fishing, wouldn't trust my N_F summit to sustain the volume of water I face while fishing, and yet I don't like how weak the dedicated fishing rain jackets are only with only half ass engineered outer layers of 50 or 70N-Denier and costing the price of high end jackets.
Sympatex>gortex
I'm just fixated on the matching knot pattern on your tongue and groove. must have installed as they came off the log in series unless its a print.
Really interesting to listen about the real experience of a guys who spent a lot of time in mountains. Most of discussions on this topic are just about asking a questions without any answers or just comparing membrains in the laboratory. But here you see the real experience of using them... AND in the same time you see that guys are not completely sure for 100% about comparing that membrains because it's impossible to make true tests of 2-3 different membrains in the same conditions and the same activity (and more than that, with the same outer shell, which is important too).
I read between the lines that Futurelight is lighter and more flexible than Gore-Tex Pro, but you're not completely confident if it holds well in a really different conditions (maybe it will, we just can ask guys now again, there were 3 years more to test fabrics and have more impressions)
It should be what is the 2nd best waterproof fabric. The indestructible Outdry Extreme still claims the 1st !! 😁😁
Outdry Extreme is a tech from Columbia correct? So are you saying it way more advance than goretex/futurelight?
Dermizax has left the chat...
If you are looking for long time performance and durability without DWR reapplication and clogging pores, I thinks its the best option.
I’ve been eying the Fjallraven eco shell but not I’m worried that it didn’t even make it into the conversation 😂
Dermizax standing outside the tree house plotting it's revenge since it didn't get to play with the cool kids.
Yeh probably deserved a mention actually. We've got a video on a Dermizax membrane jacket here in case of interest: ruclips.net/video/9Da64GTFne8/видео.html&feature=emb_title
I used neoshell for a few years but switched to Toray's Dermizax NX. In my experience it's like a more waterproof & breathable version of neoshell. It's soft, stretchy and doesn't rustle. It's comfortable to wear and highly waterproof. Breathability feels similar to my older Mountain Hardwear DryQ elite shell (around 40k MTVR) while being more durable. It's less air permeable than neoshell so more comfortable in windy conditions. Bergans make some great 3L dermizax NX shells such as the Slingsby and the Rabot 3L. Its also featured in some mega money ski brands such as Kjus. Toray let other manufacturers use their fabrics as own brand high-end membranes so they haven't really promoted Dermizax as a brand in the way Gore. I haven't tried futurelight but TNF customer care let me down twice in the last 3 years so I'd need to be very convinced of its durability (which I'm not yet) . I've also tried a light running shell from Haglofs that had amazing breathability. 50k+ MTVR. They seem to be improving their own PU membrane hugely. I believe they work with Toray also.
What about "OutDry Extreme" from Columbia Sportswear? Have you tried that? The membrane is on the outside of the product and needs no DWR. The have an Eco one too.
If you do alpine climbing and stuff where your life depends on staying dry.. Gore-Tex is perfect.
For the 95% is that walk in rain and hike in it twice a year.. H2NO, Futurelite, Dry.Q, etc.. they work more than well enough. My last Patagonia jacket lasted five years and I only upgraded it cause I’d lost a bunch of weight and it was huge.
My current Slate Sky should last me a decade. Gore Tex does have an ePE option that’s not as toxic to the environment. I know the Triolet jacket uses it.. expensive stuff though.
9:51 - wearing a 670g heavy Summit Series L5 Futurelight complaining about the MEN'S VELEZ JACKET coming in at 605g (...)
It’s interesting discussing apples to oranges in terms of performance. Gore-Tex seems to stand alone in the extremely durable/waterproof arena but I think the discussion around hyper-breathable membranes is still worthwhile - any thoughts on AscentShell and other electrospun membranes vs Futurelight. I also think the inclusion of Gore-Tex stretch is interesting as I believe this was introduced because it was dropped by the North Face (in their Apex Flex line)
Does anyone know what jacket the guy in the far left (the Orange Gore-Tex jacket) is wearing?
Hey Irvine. It's a Gore-tex prototype to demonstrate their latest Gore-tex Pro developments. The 66 North Hornstrandir is very, very similar. Here's my review of that jacket: ruclips.net/video/T6LMWiqj39U/видео.html
How mgr/ 24 h is the breathability of the oldеr version Goretex - Pro Shell ?
Would you still recommend futurelight as a viable option vs Gore tex? Or Is Gore Tex the way to go in 2024? (feel like I'm in a back to the future movie). Great video! Love the side by side "argument"
I have multiple Futurelight jackets. All bought with >50% discount in the TNF Outlet or at online retailers. I'm super fond of he Flight Series jacket that's very thin and packable, super breathable and fully waterproof, even in big downpours with heavy wind. It lives my bag on days with mostly fair weather and I put it on when it starts to rain, so really as a rainshell with amazing breathability. So much so that you don't notice that you're actually wearing a jacket. I can't use it with a backpack. I also have other Futurelight jackets, the Impendor, Tente, Dryzzle Insulated Futurelight/Ventrux Combo. The Impendor works fine for hikes without a 4kg+ backpack. Made of Polyester it's less durable than the heavier Nylon versions. Great breathability, and less fragile than the thin Flight Series jacket. The Tente didn't last even one downpour as it immediately started wetting through. That's what I read often in Futurelight jackets user reviews, quite a lot of jackets fail within the first few uses in wet conditions, a manufacturing quality issue rather than a fabric quality issue. I sent it to TNF under warranty, was told it wasn't repairable and as the Tente was no longer available I received a replacement Flex Futurelight jacket. I subsequently sold the Flex Futurelight jacket as it was to similar to the Impendor Futurelight but warmer and becease of the very nice inner liner slightly heavier whilst I prefer a shell to be just protecting from wet and windy conditions, without adding weight for insulation. It impressed as a super comfortabele autumn wet weather jacket but as it was completely new I prefered to sell it and keep the Impendor. Ever though I prefer a waterproof jacket not to be insulated st the same time, I must say I really enjoy wearing the Futurelight/Ventrix combo jacket as well which is great for hiking in say -2°C - 8°C and (windy) weather with showers of rain. You feel again like almost not wearing a jacket because it's extremely good at keeping you dry and extremely breathable. In similar weather with less rain I'd wear my Active Insulated jacket (Style Patagonia Nano Air, Arc'teryx Atom LT) but the Futurelight/Ventrix combo is perfect when I expect heavier rain showers (In continuous rain it'd be a Gore Tex hardshell) With the Tente Futurelight jacket missing I still didn't have my desired (hopefully) durable rugged Futurelight hardshell so I just ordered a Champang Futurelight jacket with Nylon fabric at 52% discount, for use as a durable rugged and extremely breathable hardshell jacket for alpine hiking with a backpack. All of the Futurelight jackets I've worn have EXTREMELY good breathability and all but the Tente survived every weather that was thrown at them, including the dry + sunny weather where you'd normally take of the hardshell but no need because of the amazing breathability. You just have to keep in mind to test their waterproofness/manufacturing quality in a downpour BEFORE taking of all the tags and use them for what they should be: Waterproof Hardshell jackets. Two relatives own the Dryzzle Futurelight. They are both really happy with it, but I find the fabric to rigged and noisy. My Impendor is much suppler, thinner and softer. The Flex had also a much more comfortable fabric than the Dryzzle. If you want a jacket that can handle days of continuous rain, alpine conditions and the best durability, Gore Tex (Pro) is probably still the better option, but maybe the Chamlang jacket will prove me wrong. With Futurelight still not as well known as Gore Tex and TNF having so many different models in their Futurelight range, with every season new colours and models, it's very easy to find extremely discounted items if you're patient, especially compared to Gore Tex jackets where especially the €300+ models hardly ever get more than 25% discounted. That's how I ended with so many Futurelight jackets, and till now I'd recommend them all over a similarly priced Gore Tex jacket, as long as you keep in mind to test their manufacturing quality thoroughly before common use. My warranty claim with the Tente was handled swift and fair. I'd probably give a wholy different recommendation if it were otherwise..
11 months on as anything changed😎
Used many membranes over 30 years of outdoor guiding climbing and military service. Gortex is the best hands down. Furthermore Im tired of people who obviously have never tortured themselves and clothing bitching about DWR. DWR wears out it must be replaced that issue is dead. Now, What most fail to champion is breathability during hard aerobic use under horrid conditions is key to being safe and comfortable. I live in massive extreme swing weather conditions in western mountains of Canada. Wind, rain, snow in all shapes and forms is normal as well as heat. Wetting out is a minor issue and fixable. The ability to pass heat and vapor through fabrics while under exertion in high wind low moisture and temps is important. Nothing beats top end pro gortex for durability and breathability under those conditions. If you are not hard on gear and only a weekend warrior not in the Outback and or under extreme conditions a cheaper membrane can do fine.
Hi thanks for the feedback on the gore jacket. George has the L5 summit jacket without a powder skirt. Do the pants attach to the jacket making this not needed? He was skiing in some steep and deep powder in those excellent videos.
whats abou Dermizax ?
How about Helly Hansen professional 3L; I use them for years and seem extremely durable breathable and take reproofing extremely well. Now HH has the new infinity membrane without the use of DWR.
Hey - here's my take on that new fabric from HH: ruclips.net/video/B_lkW8n0bcU/видео.html
Will
@@OutdoorsMagicTV I ve seen that but wanted your opinion when compared to gore tex pro in terms of durability.
@@SPYROSMANTZAKOS Oh right. I'd say Helly Hansen's new fabric is actually much tougher. I wouldn't say the water resistance was good as it tends to be on a new Gore-Tex Pro jacket. But then, over time, I'd expect the Helly Hansen to win (in the water repellency stakes) in the long run as Gore-Tex Pro's DWR tends to wear out pretty quickly in my experience. I haven't had a chance to use any Nikwax on my HH yet - would be very curious to see the effect it has. Will
@@OutdoorsMagicTVi tend to agree on that. I would really love to see a long term review after some months or year, on the new lifa membrane and how it holds up. You have the best video review on the membrane until know!
@Spyros Mantzakos I'll see If I can do a long-term follow up review at some point. Would definitely be worth it I reckon. 👍
thanks for this guys
What about Cutan from Klattermusen?
FYI: nylon and polyester is derived from plastics.
There is nothing wrong with plastics derived fabrics when it’s from recycled plastics. We need to recycle the endless supply of plastics in our planet.
Are Gore Tex ski pants actually water proof when sitting on a rainy-wet chair lift?
Yes it should not enter the bibs as the membrane works well. But under extreme conditions it can if the seams aren't sealed well or you're heavy etc.
HI Guys thanks for the great review. I am just curious what jacket is Giles wearing? Is it a jacket from Gore Wear?
Hi Andrew,
He's wearing a sample jacket from Gore, one that demonstrates all three versions of the new Gore-Tex Pro. Unfortunately I don't think it's ever been on the market. Best, Will
What about Pertex and H2NO?
I just ordered my 3rd Gore Tex jacket in 3 weeks. I plan on picking 2 Future Light jacket in the next 4 months.
Great video! Super in depth
Thanks Joe. Hope you found it useful. Will
In debth ..not columbia out dry is best waterproof msterial technology ,let down with poor designed jackets
what size TNF jacket are you wearing
Hi guys, just wondering how does future light compare to dryvent 2.5l? And to gore tex for that matter also?
Dryvent is not even on the same planet as gortex and futurelight
My north face venture 2 jacket made with dryvent 2.5L is definitely waterproof but the breathability is almost none existent. I now use it on my motorbike when it rains and even then I still get some condensation on the inside. My goretex jacks are far superior in breathability but you do still get some condensation. However I’ve noticed with goretex the condensation seems to come and go. I’ve just bought a futurelight jacket so I’m hoping for the big jump I’m breathability.
@@supersnebz392 so how is it so far?
@@equinoxcae6799 so far it hasn’t leaked and the breathability is excellent
@@supersnebz392 happy to hear that ! Thanks for the update !
If I want to make tarp...is goretex fabric 100% water proof from the rain yes or no?
YES.
No not if it the pores get cloged why sympatex better
What is that gore tex jacket that the guy on the left is wearing?
Hi David, it's a sample that Gore-Tex sent us to demonstrate their new fabric. It's not something that will end up in stores - at least I don't think so anyway. Will
@@OutdoorsMagicTV What a tease! I just wasted 10 minutes searching for a Gore Wear jacket just iike it.
In my opinion Gore tex just doesn't perform that well. DWR wears off quickly. Breathability is poor even on the very best jackets. I have had Arteryx Theta SVX £600, Norrona Recon £550, Patagonia Puma £550, Fjelraven Eco shell Parka £550.
All the jackets DWR wore of very quickly, the best the Theta lasted 3 weeks, after this no amount of reproofing works longer than a week. I got all the money back for the jackets under warranty. I won't be wasting anymore money expensive membrane jackets. I will stick with Paramo its not 100% waterproof but it breaths so much better. It's silent, soft and cheap
You stepped away from membranes because they needed constant reproofing, but went towards Paramo instead?! I have 5 or 6 garments from Paramo and hate how much effort I have to put into those to keep me dry. Without the Nikwax proofing my jackets wet out extremely fast even after all Tech Wash stuff, without constant reproofing, they are better windproofs unfortunately
The issue I have with your analysis is that it concerns fabric, not the membrane, which is what GoreTex (and the others) are focused on here: how waterproof/breathable/flexible are the garments that use these waterproof membranes.
Put another way, GorTex Pro can be married to the same nylon shell fabric (where the DWR goes) as FutureLight or NeoShell.
you're doing something very wrong if any of those jackets only lasted 3 weeks..
@@bjornegan6421 I just wear them !!!
@@gregors.5734 You’re the first person ever who has multiple branded fabrics fail in three weeks, that’s a world record! DWR wears off from sweaty oily fabrics. Maybe you have hyperhidrosis? For everyone else proper reapplication of DWR coat once in a while will give a many years of service. GoreTex is known for delimitation problem but others that have their own Neoshell spinoffs are durable.
Does anyone know what video the clip at 5:31 is from? Thanks.
Hi. It's from our team's ski mountaineering trip in the Alps. Can get the name of specific peak from my colleague if you'd like. Will
@@OutdoorsMagicTV Hi, many thanks for the reply. That would be great if you could. Just such a spectacular shot both ascetically and technically. Loved it!
@@MrRwccwr It's here: www.altituderando.com/Tete-de-la-Toura-2914m
@@OutdoorsMagicTV Wonderful, thank you so much. You should put together a short piece with more of that footage 🏔🎥
Dermizax NX?
What happened to the waterfall story ?
Hi. Here's a vid that shows my experiment. outdoorsmagic.com/article/are-paramos-nikwax-jackets-actually-waterproof-wills-world/
What about mammut sota?
any comment on EVent?
I want to know, too!😊
Brand brand is that Gore Tex pro jacket the guy is wearing?
He's wearing a sample jacket from Gore, one that demonstrates all three versions of the new Gore-Tex Pro. Unfortunately I don't think it's ever been on the market.
Will
@@OutdoorsMagicTV ok wow. Exclusive. 😔I really liked it. Thanks, very quick response. 👍🏽
Pertex shield air for me. How did they not even get a mention 🤡🤣
.................. FIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!
Look at what mountain troops use.
sdnalyam what do they use?
@@Bushwacked487 . They use a windshirt ,was Epic by Nextec, silicone encapsulated thread, and Polartec Alpha Direct. They also have a non breathable jacket for heavy rain when not moving. The system works like the UK Buffalo and other pile pertex systems but is better suited to warmer weather. Part of the test was to be fully submerged while crossing a river in winter and not stopping to change clothing but to keep patrolling. Natick Labs and others carried out the research. You can try it out yourself by using a windshirt and Polartec Alpha Direct against the skin. Adjust the thickness etc depending on your metabolism.
Bla bla,goretex is better,no isn't true future light is better. Prove it ppl, prove it. After this we haven't get any conclusions,we need to buy both and try it 😂😂... tried future light... it's cheaper not better...
There are ISO standards to test these fabrics. People just talking about it, it’s worth shit. Please get serious and send them to an independent lab .
cool
Spent a lot money on a Goretex jacket . After cleaning some dirt and grease off it with soapy water, No matter what i do it’s not waterproof anymore .
Waterproof OR water-repellant?
Yes some brand riain jacket are labeled Water resistance and that only works for light rain and wind proof and some are waterproof and windproof and Breathable and some are packable in a tube sack of both water resistant jacket and pants and breathable and those are considered a summer hot rain suit .
If it a $200. Dollars or $300. Dollars Fishing Tournament Gore-Tex waterproof jacket and bibs I would used "ATSKO Sport-wash made by Sno-Seal Laundry detergent," just added 2 cap filled lid and used cold water laundry in washer and dryer to low setting to dry both jacket and pants and do another low heat setting to drying fully . Or if you can find " Nikwax laundry detergent retreatment rainproof and body odor eliminator wash ," might work I know I have been using it for years in 1990 I have had Gore-Tex waterproof jacket and worn it out and grew up too big to fit me as a kid .
Dwr wears off. You've actually helped clog up the membrane using soap as it leaves residues.
Eco shell wins
I find the fabric needs regular Nikwax maintenance but yeh, I'm a big fan of that. Will
The best waterproof fabric out there in terms of repelling water is garbage bag!
Paramo 😀😃🤣
Sympatex destroys gore tex pro, better breathability and 45,000mm waterproof, also flexible I believe, been around since early 80s, you guys say best, it's just not
I have a sympatex purple ultimate coat from 80s90s still the best coat I've ever used and it's like 20 30+ years still great a little tlc needed... I did a lot of mountain biking with it for couple of years I was amazed how well it keeps Wind off waterout you warm but feels like your skin can breathe and not sweat get to hot as well happier planet seas🌿 can't go wrong with sympatex no pores as well vains soo no clogging like gortex do...
Sustainability has ZERO importance for me.