Well I've heard about pronation hundreds of times before but this is the first video where I now understand it. You explained it so clearly, demonstrated holding a ball and then with the racket. Thank you very much this is going to help my serve and save my wrist.
Preach!! Its one of the key things I tell my students, its amazing how prevalent this is among recreational players looking to get more power on their serve.
This is absolutely excellent. A way I've phrased it in the past is "you don't want to flex your wrist like shooting a basketball, you want to rotate the forearm like you're throwing a javelin." But this is so much clearer about describing the difference.
There is definitely a flex of the wrist however as minimal as it may be. Getting good direction on your serve requires a wrist snap. What do you think, Pete Sampras?
As I say in the video, prior to contact there will be some degree of wrist extension, after contact there may be some slight wrist flexion, but it’s not the driving force during contact. Pronation is.
You just saved my arm, Its been hurting for about a week now and after working on my serves i now see why. Thought it was all in the wrist but now i know!!! Thanks so so much for this video!
thanks Simon for clearing this up... as I also watched videos from the "famous" coach YT channel, he's telling us to snap the wrist... i think your explanation is much more reasonable and injury free than his opinion.
Many thanks 🙏 Poor advice caused me serious wrist problems, I don’t want others to suffer the way I did. Slow motion footage of the pros back up the pronation and not wrist snap so it’s always a good idea to include some of our pro footage
I think snapping the wrist has classically been taught as a way to prevent the player having an extended wrist through contact (like it’s lagging behind) but it’s true that supination and pronation should be emphasised above all
Here's a video that's NEVER been done: The "3.5 over 50 Good Enough Serve." Almost every serve video uses pros as exemplars. But I don't want nor need a pro serve. I just need a pretty solid "good enough" serve to get through a match without throwing away points. I'm kinda' curious what that might look like, what mechanics would be retained, and what mechanics might be de-emphasized? Love your stuff!
I’ve recently started practicing the tennis service. As I was progressing, I started snapping my wrist, and I ended up with a sore wrist and forearm after an hour. Since I’m fed up with coaches in my country, and I’m self-coaching myself with videos, I was wondering if snapping the ball is the proper way or not. So glad I came up with this video before it’s too late.
Firstly, loving the little baby. :) Aghh only if so many players would see this. Such a good video. Thanks Simon as always. Hope you're doing well. Cheers! M
Thank you for your great videos, Simon! Would you be so kind to make a specific video regarding “leading with the elbow”? That’s the hardest part to me…thank you!
I'm starting my tennis lessons from tomorrow and this feels like a life saver for me as I had carpal tunnel syndrome not too long ago. Still have discomfort in the wrists. Let's see how it goes!
I am practicing so hard to serve like you. The best video is when you talk about swinging up rather than forwards into the court. You make it look so eady in the demo but i still serve like your demo of how not to do it despite practicing every morning for 20 minutes for almost 10 years now. I see the difference on video between what i do and what you do but cant teach my body to understand what it needs to do. I think you could help but dont live in your country. Do you do virtual coaching?
I focus on pronation but have never thought about making sure I fully supinate prior, as I thought that would happen naturally. Maybe that’s why I’m not getting the pop. Makes sense. Sort of like loading the coil on a ground stroke before releasing the stored energy.
Hey Simon 🙋♂️. Do you also use pronation on a slice- and kickserve? If you do so, what progressions do you use on these serves? Greetings from Germany
Yes, pronation on all serves. The swing path changes, the degree of pronation prior to contact changes, but it should occur on all 3 serves. We use a step by step method for developing pronation on the kick and slice serves, which we cover inside our serve course in depth on our website
Shoulder internal and external rotation plays a huge role for sure. No doubt about that. But to say it’s the driving factor would be incorrect in my opinion
It changes depending on the type of serve (flat vs kick vs slice) and it also changes depending on your intended target. But, in general, you pronate into a neutral position around the point of contact, then pronate fully after contact
Thanks. I develop knee pain (on the lower half around the knee cap) if I play tennis continuously. Do you have stretches / exercises for that? Thanks again
I would look at the strength of your quad muscles, or the flexibility in your leg muscles in general. So many factors can cause pain, it’s impossible for me to say why you’re having knee pain when playing, but you have to dig away at the issue and find a solution. I’ve just spent 7 months dealing with two serious back injuries, and I kept searching until I found something that helped, it’s a daily grind but worth it when you can play pain free
It gives you the ability to accelerate fully through the contact zone, in the most technically sound way possible for your body, reducing the risk of injury and increasing the Racket Head Speed available
Ive more or less mastered that for the ad side of the service but for the deuce side I feel awkward with that so I use more of a slice serve/flat serve on the deuce side
very helpful video, thank you. no shade to Venus Williams, but her serving video is telling people to snap their wrist and i feel really bad for people who are now injured from following this instruction. this includes myself. lmao.
After filming with a few pro players, I realised many don’t have a scooby what they’re actually doing technically. Nalbandian and Robredo were exceptional. They both knew exactly what they did, and how to maximise technique
In general yes, sometimes you may use more of a wrist snap in certain situations, for example on deep overheads that are behind your body, or on low overheads when you need to hit down aggressively
Can you make a new how to kill short ball tutorial?If not that’s fine it’s just what I’m currently working on so would be nice. I have good defense but struggle attacking.
Open wrist as in it’s bent? Sure, I didn’t say you cannot flex or extend the wrist in some form during the main action, pronation. None of those players snap their wrists, it’s still pronation but with a loose wrist which allows the flexion and extension to occur, but that isn’t their driving force
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial I dont know maybe its actually a mix of pronation and some small snap - Imagine a stick with a rope and ball at the end (rope would be a wrist) it makes somes sense, Patrick talks about whip effect. If the hand is relaxed then some snap might occur even unintentionally. There are so many misconceptions about the serve but one thing is common - 'stay relax'
Relaxed but using correct technique. I can be relaxed and use crap technique, it won’t help me. The slow motion clips of the best pros all show the same thing, supination prior to contact, pronation into and after contact. None of them snap their wrists as the main motion. You’d see their strings facing the sky prior to contact. All are on edge
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial true all are on edge just before the contact but this doesnt mean there is no additional move/power from the wrist. This is the most apparent when you look on guys that doesnt do the racket drop with edge but with kinda open racket head - lopez, federer, sampras, karue sell ---> probably thats the wrist snap. If there is 0 wrist snap this would mean wrist is totally locked --> probably not true it is loose so = somekind of snap, but yeah I agree with you that pronation is more imporant but... there is a coach on youtube (one of the most popular channels) thats says do not think about pronation it will happen naturally so generally there are many misconceptions and seems like there is no 100% consensus how the serve works in the coaching world
Have you ever heard or been told to snap the wrist on serve?
Download our FREE serve guide here - www.top-tennis-training.com/serve-guide/
Can we get a video of you hitting serves. Different camera angles and both slowmo and normal speed?
If this comment gets 50 likes, I’ll do it 😂
50 Likes Please!!
Lolll
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial hey, look…50 likes.
There are like 500 videos on YT & IG with Simon serving
Well I've heard about pronation hundreds of times before but this is the first video where I now understand it. You explained it so clearly, demonstrated holding a ball and then with the racket. Thank you very much this is going to help my serve and save my wrist.
Preach!! Its one of the key things I tell my students, its amazing how prevalent this is among recreational players looking to get more power on their serve.
Absolutely 👍
Thanks for clarifying one of the great myths of tennis! Surprising how many coaches are still preaching wrist snap on the serve… Such a shame.
Big Shane, especially for the wrists of players 😂
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Yes, for sure! Crazy how I get arguments from coaches all the time on this. Keep up the great work!
the dog at 2:47 really got me 🤣
Paws 🐾 😂
This is absolutely excellent. A way I've phrased it in the past is "you don't want to flex your wrist like shooting a basketball, you want to rotate the forearm like you're throwing a javelin."
But this is so much clearer about describing the difference.
Thanks for watching 🙏
There is definitely a flex of the wrist however as minimal as it may be. Getting good direction on your serve requires a wrist snap. What do you think, Pete Sampras?
As I say in the video, prior to contact there will be some degree of wrist extension, after contact there may be some slight wrist flexion, but it’s not the driving force during contact. Pronation is.
You just saved my arm, Its been hurting for about a week now and after working on my serves i now see why. Thought it was all in the wrist but now i know!!! Thanks so so much for this video!
thanks Simon for clearing this up... as I also watched videos from the "famous" coach YT channel, he's telling us to snap the wrist... i think your explanation is much more reasonable and injury free than his opinion.
Many thanks 🙏
Poor advice caused me serious wrist problems, I don’t want others to suffer the way I did.
Slow motion footage of the pros back up the pronation and not wrist snap so it’s always a good idea to include some of our pro footage
I was snapping my wrist past 2 days and my wrist started hurting and getting tighter. Thank god I watched this video 😭🙏
🙏
Great video. This explains the core of the serve motion which must exist. Great drills too!
Many thanks 🙏
Thank you for the top drawer content. One of the very best channels in the space!
Many thanks 🙏
I think snapping the wrist has classically been taught as a way to prevent the player having an extended wrist through contact (like it’s lagging behind) but it’s true that supination and pronation should be emphasised above all
Possibly
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial would be interested to hear how you think the wrist should in fact snap on scissor kick smashes
Thanks!I always tried different ways to serve because snapping my wrist eventually hurt,this is extremely helpful
Good luck with the improvements 💪
Here's a video that's NEVER been done: The "3.5 over 50 Good Enough Serve." Almost every serve video uses pros as exemplars. But I don't want nor need a pro serve. I just need a pretty solid "good enough" serve to get through a match without throwing away points.
I'm kinda' curious what that might look like, what mechanics would be retained, and what mechanics might be de-emphasized?
Love your stuff!
I’ve recently started practicing the tennis service. As I was progressing, I started snapping my wrist, and I ended up with a sore wrist and forearm after an hour. Since I’m fed up with coaches in my country, and I’m self-coaching myself with videos, I was wondering if snapping the ball is the proper way or not. So glad I came up with this video before it’s too late.
Love all your videos. Great teaching
Many thanks 🙏
Thank you for the video. It's very helpful.
My pleasure 🙏
Thank you Simon!
My pleasure 🙏
Firstly, loving the little baby. :)
Aghh only if so many players would see this. Such a good video.
Thanks Simon as always. Hope you're doing well.
Cheers!
M
Many thanks 🙏
Hello Coach.Great instruction as usual.This Tip is right on the Money.Thank you for sharing and keep up the good work.
Many thanks for the support 🙏
All the best
Simon
Excellent video, thank you coach!
My pleasure 🙏
Thank you for your great videos, Simon! Would you be so kind to make a specific video regarding “leading with the elbow”? That’s the hardest part to me…thank you!
I’ll keep that in mind for the near future 👍
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficialmuch appreciated!
great explanation, thanks !!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I'm starting my tennis lessons from tomorrow and this feels like a life saver for me as I had carpal tunnel syndrome not too long ago. Still have discomfort in the wrists. Let's see how it goes!
Thanks - that's very helpful!
My pleasure 🙏
I am practicing so hard to serve like you. The best video is when you talk about swinging up rather than forwards into the court. You make it look so eady in the demo but i still serve like your demo of how not to do it despite practicing every morning for 20 minutes for almost 10 years now. I see the difference on video between what i do and what you do but cant teach my body to understand what it needs to do. I think you could help but dont live in your country. Do you do virtual coaching?
If you have instagram, you can join my group on @coach_simon_ttt and every month I do a free analysis for some of the players from the group
Excellent! I’ll do those drills every time I prepare to work on my serve. Hugs to Paws 🐾 🐶
Paws says keep up the good work sir, I hope the pronation starts creating holes in the fence
Thanks for the great video. Do you pronate fully only on slice and flat serves or on kick serves, too?
On kick serves it’s even more important to pronate fully, I cover it here - m.ruclips.net/video/mQ82gQwkUtY/видео.html
I focus on pronation but have never thought about making sure I fully supinate prior, as I thought that would happen naturally. Maybe that’s why I’m not getting the pop. Makes sense. Sort of like loading the coil on a ground stroke before releasing the stored energy.
To have the full range of motion, you need to supinate properly 💪
Hey Simon 🙋♂️. Do you also use pronation on a slice- and kickserve? If you do so, what progressions do you use on these serves?
Greetings from Germany
Yes, pronation on all serves. The swing path changes, the degree of pronation prior to contact changes, but it should occur on all 3 serves. We use a step by step method for developing pronation on the kick and slice serves, which we cover inside our serve course in depth on our website
Simon, some coaches say it’s actually internal shoulder rotation rather than pronation. I believe they go hand in hand though.
Shoulder internal and external rotation plays a huge role for sure. No doubt about that. But to say it’s the driving factor would be incorrect in my opinion
En qué momento entre supinación y pronación se impacta la bola
Gcs excelente video
It changes depending on the type of serve (flat vs kick vs slice) and it also changes depending on your intended target. But, in general, you pronate into a neutral position around the point of contact, then pronate fully after contact
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Thanks!!!
Thanks. I develop knee pain (on the lower half around the knee cap) if I play tennis continuously. Do you have stretches / exercises for that? Thanks again
I would look at the strength of your quad muscles, or the flexibility in your leg muscles in general. So many factors can cause pain, it’s impossible for me to say why you’re having knee pain when playing, but you have to dig away at the issue and find a solution. I’ve just spent 7 months dealing with two serious back injuries, and I kept searching until I found something that helped, it’s a daily grind but worth it when you can play pain free
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial thanks. I'll do that. It's not severe, but it's a nagging one that slowly creeps up
Very helpful
Happy to hear 🙏
Could you help explain how this actually generates speed? Thanks!
It gives you the ability to accelerate fully through the contact zone, in the most technically sound way possible for your body, reducing the risk of injury and increasing the Racket Head Speed available
Huh, I guess I’ve been incorrectly calling the pronation-supination motion a wrist snap all this time 😅 Thanks for the vid 👌
Snap the forearm is much better than snap the wrist 😂
❤❤❤great video as always ❤❤❤
how do you do a slice serve while doing also the pronation from deuce side?
This lesson may help - m.ruclips.net/video/fJ_a2RLdFCM/видео.html
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial perfect thanks a lot
🙏
Ive more or less mastered that for the ad side of the service but for the deuce side I feel awkward with that so I use more of a slice serve/flat serve on the deuce side
It takes time to get it on both sides
very helpful video, thank you. no shade to Venus Williams, but her serving video is telling people to snap their wrist and i feel really bad for people who are now injured from following this instruction. this includes myself. lmao.
After filming with a few pro players, I realised many don’t have a scooby what they’re actually doing technically. Nalbandian and Robredo were exceptional. They both knew exactly what they did, and how to maximise technique
Is it the same wrist pronation for overhead smashes?
In general yes, sometimes you may use more of a wrist snap in certain situations, for example on deep overheads that are behind your body, or on low overheads when you need to hit down aggressively
Great thanks :)
Can you make a new how to kill short ball tutorial?If not that’s fine it’s just what I’m currently working on so would be nice. I have good defense but struggle attacking.
That was one of my lessons to film next week if I get the chance 💪
Let’s gooooo!
In France we called this serve " service poele à frire / Frying Pan serve "😀
Yep, same in the UK 😂
Your dog's name is "pause"? Lovely😊😊😊
Paws 🐾 AI voice to text app didn’t pick it up properly. My fault for not proofreading all the words 😂
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Paws👍😅
there are some players with great serve and open wrist at some point of motion - Sampras, Feliciano Lopez, Federer
Open wrist as in it’s bent? Sure, I didn’t say you cannot flex or extend the wrist in some form during the main action, pronation. None of those players snap their wrists, it’s still pronation but with a loose wrist which allows the flexion and extension to occur, but that isn’t their driving force
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial I dont know maybe its actually a mix of pronation and some small snap - Imagine a stick with a rope and ball at the end (rope would be a wrist) it makes somes sense, Patrick talks about whip effect. If the hand is relaxed then some snap might occur even unintentionally. There are so many misconceptions about the serve but one thing is common - 'stay relax'
Relaxed but using correct technique. I can be relaxed and use crap technique, it won’t help me. The slow motion clips of the best pros all show the same thing, supination prior to contact, pronation into and after contact. None of them snap their wrists as the main motion. You’d see their strings facing the sky prior to contact. All are on edge
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial true all are on edge just before the contact but this doesnt mean there is no additional move/power from the wrist. This is the most apparent when you look on guys that doesnt do the racket drop with edge but with kinda open racket head - lopez, federer, sampras, karue sell ---> probably thats the wrist snap. If there is 0 wrist snap this would mean wrist is totally locked --> probably not true it is loose so = somekind of snap, but yeah I agree with you that pronation is more imporant but... there is a coach on youtube (one of the most popular channels) thats says do not think about pronation it will happen naturally so generally there are many misconceptions and seems like there is no 100% consensus how the serve works in the coaching world
You can test it yourself, snap your wrist on the serve at high speeds and let me know how it goes 😂
Puppy 🐶 in every video please!🙏
😂 I’ll try.
Sometimes they’re camera shy
haha i didnt even notice your dog whilst watching until you pointed it out
Thanks coach Simon.. copy paste at shadow swing and play on court ❤😂
😂
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial coach ❤ I would love to see a lesson of spinning 🏸🎾, of yours 😁 which will make some style in our tennis life.
what about the sampras snap?
That was an elbow snap, not a wrist one
I just clicked like for not upsetting Pause
Paws 🐾 says thank you 🙏 she’s sleeping now after having some ice cream 😂
I wish I had watched this before injuring my wrist 😭
How do you control the direction the ball goes in when protonating?
When I protonate the ball has a mind of its own 🤣
You control the direction by slight changes in the racket angle prior to or at contact. The racket path also plays a role in the direction
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial thanks a lot! Went out and hit a few shots yesterday and this really helped. Serve is defo getting better!
Great explanation. Just last week I was snapping my wrist looking for more power. 🤯 And invariably ended up with wrist and elbow discomfort 🫤