I feel you missed the point, while pointing it out. Practically nobody fulfills Dr. Mike's criteria for taking steroids. He basically says, that nobody should take them.
No, he says that you're only justified taking them if you're planning to compete or your natty gains (or in other words you're extremely close to your natty limit) are very slow (i disagree with the second point tho).
I watched Dr Mike's video a few days ago. He talked more about the negatives of using gear than anything. I don't feel he was advocating using gear at anytime. What i got from it was basically a "these are the reasons you should stay away from drugs, but IF you decide to take them, be smart about it" vibe
No teen is going to listen to anyone telling them to wait until they're 25 to take "alternative" supplements. Especially if those telling them to stay off steroids used steroids themselves.
I don’t see the issue with Mikes video. He gave a decent disclaimer, didn’t glorify it, spoke of the negatives and that most don’t need and shouldnt use them. The reality is that tons of guys are already using. I understand the anti-steroid stance but more knowledge about saftey isn’t a bad thing. If the only message is don’t do it, this leads back to guys doing even more harm because of the lack of info.
So I should do a video on when its logical to do coke, but as long as I make sure there is a disclaimer and talk about the negative its ok? Weird how we choose what gets a pass. The only safe way to do steroids is when you need it and its prescribed by a doctor. Its not an anti steroid stance is a pro make smart decision to live longer stance. plus dude ITS ILLEGAL and MOST of his audience like mine are American. So to go full circle regardless of logic or stating the negatives he's saying there is a logical reason to break the law!
(NO HATE ON MIKE) but hes painting it like its a "complex but easy step-by-step picture to follow", the only way i could make you an example would be with the current social media guru influencers related to trad1ng, they go like "use money you can afford to lose, so yeh you invest, you study the graphs, you put some years, you develop a system and voila! a forever earning method!" but thats far far very far from that, its 10 times worse and more complex, they still are preaching truths but they are def masking the bigger issues. why? cuz they need being contracted by you, same goes here.
Ah you saved me rant with that. Perfectly worded mate! Johnny has good points, but come on. Not everyone has genetics like you. Some of us responsibly did bit of gear after 25 and built a physique of our dreams as safe as possible
@@JonniShreve that’s all true, but some people are going to take things that are illegal anyway be that steroids or cocaine, and some are not. It’s weird though that (as far as I know p) there’s no ‘how to take cocaine as safely as possibly’ videos which would be the equivalent of this. It’s a really grey area that both you and dr Mike are covering and I’m not sure that there is a right or a wrong. Ultimately it’s down to personal choice what drugs, if any, people put into themselves.
@@JonniShrevesincere question. I am a 47-year-old man who has stayed physically fit through most of my life but I started to lack energy, drive and libido as well as being in a constant state of depression. I had my testosterone levels checked and it came back as 300... I decided to start trt on my own and my quality of life has drastically improved and my physique has slightly improved as well... So my question is since trt is technically steroid use, is that also bad?...should I stop? Ps. Sorry I'm still fairly new to this so if I don't describe it right I apologize but I take a 1cc shot of test cyp 250 every 2 weeks is that too much?
Mike is usually full of a nice info but one thing that really bothers me is that he doesn't see the big picture with longevity. Working in healthcare I have seen what the end looks like. Overall health should be considered when working out. For instance, a lot of bodybuilders think cardio is a waste of time because they are only focused on gains and not health and longevity. Cardio is one of the best things you could do for your health.
@@Psilocin-City haha it does blunt hypertrophy. it's not opinion hahaha. (most body builders do cardo in heart health ranges your ignorance of this is suggestive.)
Taking gear has been so normalized in recent years that ppl like you are desperately needed! When I constantly see lifters on steroids I eventually think it might be just half as bad. I really used to have it on my mind for a while but content like yours is keeping me away from that stuff for good. I can look decent enough without it and longevity and quality of life is way more important anyway! Keep it real mate!
Thank you for mentioning the other aspects of being in shape. The fitness community is focused so much on building muscle and being lean that they forget about the fit part of fitness. Improving your stamina, speed, balance, coordination, and flexibility along with strength and muscle will improve your quality of life substantially more. You'll be able to do far more activities, especially later in life.
I heard probably from Jeff Nippard, could even by Mike that about 60minutes of weight lifting a week will get you the maximum benefits from it health wise. exercise wise probably the 150 minutes cardio (x2 for vigorous) that basically means a bit of brisk walking, fell walking, gentle cycling etc. not the guys running marathons, gyming it x5 a week
As a martial arts instructor, I agree it's incredibly important to have healthy mobility. I have met people in their early 30s that can't even pass your test.
I have no idea what "going pro" looks like financially, but I'd imagine to become seriously wealthy doing bodybuilding you'd need a massive initial investment in the endeavor (which is prohibitively expensive), sponsors & endorsements to compound your initial investment, then dump any dividends from that into production of your own product lines, which is insanely expensive as well. It just doesn't seem feasible to become wealthy from bodybuilding unless you have seed capital to begin with. & I'm not talking about $20 & big dreams, I mean several millions of dollars to launch your own product lines of all sorts of bogus fitness products, workout videos, marketing/advertising for protein shakes & pre workout crap, gym apparel, etc. Honestly it's easier, if you have that kind of wealth to begin with, to just buy majority shares in something that already makes money & sit on the board of shareholders. Collect passive income. Why destroy yourself with steroids & years of insanity when you can just do what most people who inherit a golden parachute do & collect passive income from "ownership"? Really makes no sense to me.
@coffeebot7016 no, starting a business doesn't take millions -- you can spin your wheels for a decade or so on a $650,000 or $750,000 startup, watch a bunch of libertarian/ancap podcasts to tell you how free markets work, & beg, borrow, or steal as much free labor from your friends, co-workers, & relatives (possibly children if you have any) as possible, then say aw shucks looks like the free market decided my product was junk 😫 Or you can inherit business connections, network with other people who had connections & inherited wealth/privilege, boost each other by buying out the local chamber of commerce for a few hundred thousand bucks a year, corner a market by simply being born with more hours per day than the average person, sleep 2 minutes a night & spend the remaining 23 hours 57 minutes of every day "on the grind", whatever that means 😆 Sure. It doesn't take millions of dollars to be "'competitive" in a world market of quadrillions of dollars. & I've got a bridge in NYC you can buy from me, too.
I think his point was that he didn't want to seem hypocritical. And the criteria for using them basically excluded everybody. I have never nor will ever use them. The cost definitely outweighs any benefit they might have.
I feel you man, its a whole different approach to sports, health, your life. ❤ Be an older brother for them guys and keep sharing what you actually LOST doing drugs.
I just very easily got down and up without using my hands, and I'm 67 years old. I lift, stretch, pray and meditate, play sports with other people, walk, cycle, and swim. It seems to me that training sleeping and eating well keeps the endocrine system in tune. This can be ruined by exogenous hormones. Why would anyone do that? Lifting is key because the learning and adaptation continues as the body ages. We learn how to scale the training to our condition from day to day through the week, and year to year as we age. Younger people, don't throw this into the trash. Hang in there naturally. Cheers everyone!
drug addicts will always have an excuse to use drugs, and they will shamelessly get others to use it too. thank you for the rant, jonni. i have lost some respect for dr mike as of late as an educator. i learned a lot from his older lectures on hypertrophy and nutrition, but as a natural lifter and novice i can't take advice from an enhanced guy who's looking to make money to support his drug habit. he is still funny, but i can't take him seriously as a "scientist" or doctor now that he's actually advising people to take steroids despite knowing the negatives. note that the video is not "why you shouldn't take steroids" but "here's reasons why you should." thanks jonni.
Personally I liked Mike's video and I found it discouraging towards juice. Your take of the video is different but I value you opinion. Love from Italy 🇮🇹💪🏻🧠
I'm 64, never done 'roids and am happy with my workouts. I know how to push myself harder in a workout than I did in my 20's and 30's. I'm happy with my strength and how I look. I'll never go on a bodybuilding stage and creatine and protein are enough for me. Eat healthy, sleep well and live long...
I remember when i was doing orientation for a local gym i used to work for as a trainer , i had a kid about 22 yrs old in my orientation class who was obviously on gear offer to hook me up with his connect. Mind you im 33 at this time and while not super jacked im pretty strong for my age , weight and height because ive been running the wendler 531 program for almost 10 years at this point and i know i have a long way to go before i even hit my natural potential so doing roids would not only be unhealthy it would be stupid. So many young guys are looking for cheat codes nowadays instead of just putting in the work. Like you pretty much stated in this video , unless a person has top tier genetics and plan on competing there is no reason they should be on gear but so many dudes that only hit their local LA fitness take gear just to feel big and strong at a commercial gym. Good video!!!
Not really bro. You could get a lot of gear completely legal prescribed by a doctor and compounded by a legit pharmacy from the US. For example. Deca, test, winstrol, anavar, mk677, bpc157, and other peptides. All legal, all pharm grade.
Steroids are completely legal in Canada. You can literally go online and buy them if you so choose. Here's a little snippet for you on the legalities. In Canada, anabolic steroids and their derivatives are considered "Controlled Substances" and as such it is illegal to manufacture, import, export or sell these substances. Canadian Forces members are not exempt from this legislation and this is further reiterated in the Canadian Forces Drug Control Program as outlined in CFAO 19-21. Despite all of the above, using anabolic steroids is not illegal. Just thought I would point that out.
This video is either a masterclass in failing media literacy and reading/hearing comprehension - or an intentional attempt to create a "beef" with another "influencer" as clickbait, through blatant straw manning. I see you put _a lot of effort_ into your content, what with the misspelling of Dr. Israetel's name in the video description and all... Maybe that _Dr. Mike "Israteal"_ does give bad advice - who knows? Does he have a RUclips channel too, where I could find out who he is and what he has to say?
Although "dr" mike has acknowledged that he has quit doing steroids because he wants to preserve his iq, he still hasn't discussed the major contradiction within bodybuilding: gambling with your body and health in order to get more muscular. If you want to build muscle correctly then you have to be healthy or else you're cheating yourself and are more likely to face hardship via injury or loss of bodily functions. I agree that any doctor who so easily allows the use of diabolics (edit: anabolics 😆 excuse the freudian slip) is questionable in their self. A live a let live mentality should not be applied to any type of substance abuse.
Surprisingly I did the floor thing with ease! 210 lbs able to do 10 plus pistol squats and have been lifting for like 25 years haha. Takes a lot to be even decently fit.
The interpretation that he's encouraging illegal use undermines the good points you were making. Right after mocking his statement about needing a team of doctors no less. I'm still a fan that will continue watching your content, but this ended up an emotional rant with contradicting arguments. It could've been a good philosophical contrast with Dr. Mike's. Props on standing for health, longevity, and being there for the family.
JS , I think you did not understand his message. He put so many absurd conditions , that as you have explained it - literally makes no sense to even start. You practically digested his points.
Oh no, he understood the message. He's just being misleading. Because you can't clout chase as easy if you don't straw man the video you're critiquing.
@@isthatachallenge2196 i have nothing against constructive critique but I don't see anything to chew on in Mike's video. There are plenty that could be tho, his fanatic view on how muscle is built to his view on functional training for athletes. But this one ? nada.
I used to like your content, but criticizing Dr. Mike really hurts your credibility. Watch Dr. Mike's video again ant this time try to understand what he's saying! Seems like you don't grasp Mike's sarcasm. Like, at all.
I just want to say that I sat on my ass without using my hands and I got up without using my hands with ease and I'm 30. Idk what point I was combatting but I did it😤
i can do it with ease but i also train in the stretched postion and my goal is to be able to do split after gaining significant size and muscle. (another 20lbs)
I lost 186lbs and im trying to build muscles without getting fat again. People are always trying to get me to take things. I never will, im not even responsible enough to keep up creatine for a month lol
11:15 preach! So tired of people pretending they have maximised their genes or cannot go further because of their aging body (along with bs excuses like slower metabolism etc)
Thing is being an IFBB pro only really helps if you've got social media and/or if you're a personal trainer (or other fitness related jobs). If the prize is 1000$ for winning that's nothing, you spend wayy more on other things in order to achive that win.
Ideally, nobody is using steroids except for very specific medical issues. Unfortunately, that's not the world we live in. Recreational steroid use is through the roof. Reality is that if everybody followed Mike's criteria, it would go down substantially. You might still disagree with the remnant of users, but at least it would be a smaller group. I really think most people dramatically underestimate the scale of the problem, because many users simply don't look like they use.
Honestly if i didn't have 2 jobs, I'd practice shaolin and bodybuilding, that was the most mobility I've ever had. I love that you mentioned the health and fitness industry isn't focused on health. Jonni, this video was absolutely necessary, dr mike shouldn't be advocating steroids in the slightest
He just Tell You WHEN You should consider to take Steroids and When You Shouldnt and the ONLY Reason he mentions is when You Really Really Really Want to become a Fulltime Pro Bodybuilder.
Imma be honest, all these vids that pop up about steroids just come across the same as abortion debates, body modification, etc. I honestly cant care any less, so imma go ahead and skip this one. Love your stuff tho, jonni! Even if i dont always agree with your takes. ❤️
From what I’ve researched and speaking with my doctor, if your test levels are low, then TRT will improve a lot of things and make you healthier. I took it for about a year, and it helped me a lot. You should speak with a medical professional though to make sure it’s right for you.
Depends. Legitimate TRT for a legitimate medical reason? Healthy as long as it is being monitored closely. Internet "TRT" from these clinics prescribing 200mg per week permanently? Yeah, not too healthy.
Im 37 and been training since i was 12 so i guess im more than qualified to get on any gear i want even though i always get results when i start a new fitness routine im going to screw it up because by Mike's standards im overqualified to, and i do construction work so yes i can get on the floor and back up without the help of my hands.
Steriods are illegal in most countries, but in some it's legal to own but not to sell right. So technically if its about the legality then you good to go but it's not, if you want to look big it's not worth it but to compete it might be, but vanity comes into play and men are often insecure about their size.
I like Dr Mike. Dr Mike’s video is like watching a meth user tell you why and why not use meth. In fact there are no good reasons to use, it’s illegal, and the ones Dr Mike lists are really his reasons. I do however think his transparency about the downsides is a net positive.
There are several reasons not to hop on, the bad outweighs the good. They lower IQ significantly. They can stunt your growth and height if you take them before you’re done growing. They can turn you bald and give you serious acne. They weaken your connective tissues and joints, making it easier to tear muscles or tendons because the muscle growth outgrows tendons at a faster rate on gear. They’re harder on the heart and liver, giving you worse cardiovascular health. The good, you pack on more muscle I guess, some people don’t pack on any noticeable amount when they hop on. If you do have great genetics you maybe could become an IFBB Pro. Doesn’t mean you’ll win first place though.
I did get down and turns out i suprised myself a little and its easy to get down and up without my hands now. But its nit been an easy road to get here. An ex 400 lbs guy dropped to 165 back at 225 but working out a lot now and always tempted by steroids but i know im nowehre near my limit. I know its a risk to my life and everything else but as you know its just a hard decision. Specially as a 35 year old with a history of alcohol and food addiction i have overcome. Blah shits complicated out here
I feel like y'all are both kinda hitting this from different angles yet in a circular reasoning sense, coming to an anti steroid position. Mike: "you should really only consider steroids if you're going to go pro" Johnni " but lemme tell you how stupid of a goal going pro is!" Johnni's argument changes the person's mind, thereby making them no longer qualified to take gear by Mike's stance.
I Love Dr Mike's content but this video needed to be made, well don Jonni. The one glaring issue Mike (and others) omits is actual potential. Mike himself doesnt have the genetic potential to be an IFBB pro, let alone a profitable one. So in essence he gambled his health and it didnt pay off. The vast majority of people hopping on gear have unrealistic expectations.
Idk this video was a little too hard for no reason. Morality shouldn't influence the facts. The fact is, people take steroids to "better themselves." Nobody has the power to change that. But you do have the opportunity to educate the public on how to properly go about steroid use, just like Mike was trying to do. I would rather see someone know all the pros and cons than someone who jumps on because they don't know how to deal with body dysmorphia
Europe is legal as well. A lot of countries it's legal. A doc prescribes it and it's legal as well. He's not telling people to break the law. And also he is trying not to be a hipocrite. You yourself have used steroids...
@@JonniShreve im from germany where anabolics are illegal aswell im pretty sure but its just a fact that if you wanna make it in the ifbb you have to use roids. That was one point of his for steroids and thats just true, not saying its something thats smart to pursue but some just want to and i dont think anyone except them should decide that. The other point he mentioned was weird imo ill say that, and i would use steroids myself, i wouldnt use anything thats not from my doctor cause i had substance problems in the past. But i think the point of the video in general was that 99% of the people dont fulfill his points to take them and therefore they shouldnt but thats just how i understood the video. I thought everyone did.
Bruh, I feel like Dr Mike is being sarcastic with his approach as he often is. He is not advising useage. He is full on telling you a bunch of negatives that are seemingly absurd.
I agree with the mobility stuff if you feel like you're close to your genetic limit in strength. Don't understand the appeal of steroids if you prioritize athleticism and life long term. One thing you said here Johnni tho was that you're not close to you're genetic limit in strength and muscle, but i've heard you before saying you're goal is to maintain the muscle mass you have as long as you can.
It's not your place to make that decission for them. I would never take PEDs and I think it's stupid to gamble your health for gains, however I accept that other people will not feel that way and they should have the information available to make an informed choice on their own health. Saying just don't do it isn't really all that helpfull.
The Shreve, Dr. Mike, Doucette trifecta. These three guys have hammered down the youtube algorithm. They are playing WWF/WWE on RUclips. They love and hate each other and are playing you like a tuned violin. Let's watch....
would you consider that bodybuilding played a factor into your youtube career? yeah you could’ve been in youtube without trying to complete the goal of gear free bodybuilding. I won’t lie to you, i’m saying this with love and forgiveness, you are being defensive towards the way that you perceive the way that the right advice should look like. the demeanor between the two of you, I apologize for not remembering the other gentleman’s name, he is simply giving objective advice and laying down the roadwork for the people that fit the criteria that he said. 7:40 you refuted his statement by saying do you know how many people that have been training, that are the age of 25, that have been training for ten years that I KNOW? and it shows that you do know people who fit his criteria you just aren’t being objective. love you dude, think about the message I wrote and be honest with me from an objective perspective.
Isreatel is just another academic who feels that because he is schooled in certain things that he knows it all. I’m tired of people like this. Just because you’re an educated academic person does NOT mean you know everything.
He has never claimed to "know everything", whatever that's supposed mean. And please explain how the hell you would know how "he feels"? You can't even spell his name correctly, but you think you know what goes on in his head? Maybe don't project your own insecurities about your lack or education, knowledge, and (possibly) intelligence onto other people? See? Now I assume how you "feel". Did you like that? Probably not, right?
10:00 ok but heres the thing: most people dont have genetics like that, and most of the people using gear are just trying to look barely that good. Thats why the steroid epidemic is so huge and spreading more and more to average lifters. Everyone wants the body, because the body is a currency. It opens the door to relationships, being treated better by people, better access to śě'x, et cetera. Most people, even giving it thier all, will not reach that goal even if they dedicate decades to building a physique. Theyll end up with some half baked, fatter version of Tobey Maguires 2001 spiderman physique, which might have been enough 20 years ago, but doesnt even come close today. The people who are using gear to look like CBum are like .01% of the people using gear. Most are using it to look like the physique you take for granted at 21. You are genetically blessed. Youve never had to worry about being genetically inferior, and unable to find a partner. Your perspective is disjointed from what real people have to live with.
Whaaaaaaaaat the whole point of that example of Cbum was showing that even that good, the risk and reward aren't worth it. Because if you aren't that good, doing steroids to become a pro will be USELESS. And again, you are MISSING the point. STEROIDS ARE ILLEGAL. Why do you all keep pushing the goals post just to justify idiotic advice? So to you, if you have bad genetics, you should take illegal drugs???
@@JonniShreve again; my point is that the people doing steroids are not trying to be pro. They are trying to get that big chest, big shoulder "men's fitness" look that automatically comes with perks and benefits. People who look like that are automatically given favor by people of both sexes (re: halo effect) and are seen as more attractive (even butterfaces) meaning it is far easier to court a partner or even have a śļūt-phase with dating apps. Guys that look frumpy, or even skinny guys that are fit but look like most marathoners(no muscle) do not have the automatic śë'x appeal that facilitates those common wants and desires. That's my point. You don't know what it's like to not even be considered as human when it comes to dating and relationships because when you were old enough to have to worry about that, you already had an elite physique. So to put it bluntly: yes, for the vast majority of people the opinion is "if you don't have good genetics, you need to use stêröïds to even the playing field" because you can't even play the game unless you hit the physique barrier to entry.
I think competing is dumb. I understand the desire. I don’t want to seem like a assh*le. But... People ruin there lives to compete and try to becomes a pro. Men, women...do something else.
Idk man, this seems petty. Hes not advocating that you do them, hes just informing you of the inherent risks involved if you choose to go that route. Which if we're being honest, is quite a lot of people. Let's not pretend that people using steroids are on the same level as junkies or crackheads, and thats coming from an ex heroin and cocaine abuser my damn self.
Mike's vid was dumb cause it adressed 5 people ... and Jonni might got it all wrong because of some statements Mike made (not really paying attention too). But Maybe it all was a plan to entertain us and deliver clicks & drama for them :D
Jonni slowly turning into Greg Goddamn Doucette. People who are going to do steroids are going to do steroids. Mike is being very overly sarcastic in his video and basically narrowing it down to the point that he’s saying NO ONE should do steroids. I thought you guys were friends..
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
My goal is to be the oldest guy in the gym, not the youngest guy in the nursing home
I feel you missed the point, while pointing it out. Practically nobody fulfills Dr. Mike's criteria for taking steroids. He basically says, that nobody should take them.
@@NoName-jw3uy i do not think so... specialy second one anybody could go for it
No, he says that you're only justified taking them if you're planning to compete or your natty gains (or in other words you're extremely close to your natty limit) are very slow (i disagree with the second point tho).
@@NoName-jw3uy bruh ITS ILLEGAL to do steroids recreationally in the US….use your head fam!
Where does he say it is safe?
@@JonniShreve Oh noes not the illegals, was it illegal while you were juicing? Did you stop because you became aware of the law?
I watched Dr Mike's video a few days ago. He talked more about the negatives of using gear than anything. I don't feel he was advocating using gear at anytime. What i got from it was basically a "these are the reasons you should stay away from drugs, but IF you decide to take them, be smart about it" vibe
Hi Jonni! I'm 52 years old, was able to get down on the floor and back up without using my hands, and I'm surprised I could do it!
No teen is going to listen to anyone telling them to wait until they're 25 to take "alternative" supplements. Especially if those telling them to stay off steroids used steroids themselves.
I don’t see the issue with Mikes video. He gave a decent disclaimer, didn’t glorify it, spoke of the negatives and that most don’t need and shouldnt use them.
The reality is that tons of guys are already using. I understand the anti-steroid stance but more knowledge about saftey isn’t a bad thing. If the only message is don’t do it, this leads back to guys doing even more harm because of the lack of info.
So I should do a video on when its logical to do coke, but as long as I make sure there is a disclaimer and talk about the negative its ok? Weird how we choose what gets a pass.
The only safe way to do steroids is when you need it and its prescribed by a doctor. Its not an anti steroid stance is a pro make smart decision to live longer stance. plus dude ITS ILLEGAL and MOST of his audience like mine are American.
So to go full circle regardless of logic or stating the negatives he's saying there is a logical reason to break the law!
(NO HATE ON MIKE)
but hes painting it like its a "complex but easy step-by-step picture to follow", the only way i could make you an example would be with the current social media guru influencers related to trad1ng, they go like "use money you can afford to lose, so yeh you invest, you study the graphs, you put some years, you develop a system and voila! a forever earning method!" but thats far far very far from that, its 10 times worse and more complex, they still are preaching truths but they are def masking the bigger issues. why? cuz they need being contracted by you, same goes here.
Ah you saved me rant with that. Perfectly worded mate! Johnny has good points, but come on. Not everyone has genetics like you. Some of us responsibly did bit of gear after 25 and built a physique of our dreams as safe as possible
@@JonniShreve that’s all true, but some people are going to take things that are illegal anyway be that steroids or cocaine, and some are not. It’s weird though that (as far as I know p) there’s no ‘how to take cocaine as safely as possibly’ videos which would be the equivalent of this. It’s a really grey area that both you and dr Mike are covering and I’m not sure that there is a right or a wrong. Ultimately it’s down to personal choice what drugs, if any, people put into themselves.
@@JonniShrevesincere question. I am a 47-year-old man who has stayed physically fit through most of my life but I started to lack energy, drive and libido as well as being in a constant state of depression. I had my testosterone levels checked and it came back as 300... I decided to start trt on my own and my quality of life has drastically improved and my physique has slightly improved as well... So my question is since trt is technically steroid use, is that also bad?...should I stop?
Ps. Sorry I'm still fairly new to this so if I don't describe it right I apologize but I take a 1cc shot of test cyp 250 every 2 weeks is that too much?
Mike is usually full of a nice info but one thing that really bothers me is that he doesn't see the big picture with longevity. Working in healthcare I have seen what the end looks like. Overall health should be considered when working out. For instance, a lot of bodybuilders think cardio is a waste of time because they are only focused on gains and not health and longevity. Cardio is one of the best things you could do for your health.
@@michaelwozniak183 it’s worse than thinking it’s a waste of time, some think it kills their gains lol
@@Psilocin-City haha it does blunt hypertrophy. it's not opinion hahaha. (most body builders do cardo in heart health ranges your ignorance of this is suggestive.)
@@rhumandlove393 only very intense cardio for long periods of time blunts gains, a 20 minute jog or bike ride is not going to affect anything.
@@rhumandlove393 Haha you have zero clue what you're talking about. Stick to video games and Yoga, kid.
@@michaelwozniak183 cardio is fine, but if your weight training is intense, your heart rate will be elevated through your entire session.
Coach! Im glad that you pointed this out. There are NO criteria that justify doing something dangerous and illegal.
Taking gear has been so normalized in recent years that ppl like you are desperately needed! When I constantly see lifters on steroids I eventually think it might be just half as bad. I really used to have it on my mind for a while but content like yours is keeping me away from that stuff for good. I can look decent enough without it and longevity and quality of life is way more important anyway! Keep it real mate!
Thank you for mentioning the other aspects of being in shape. The fitness community is focused so much on building muscle and being lean that they forget about the fit part of fitness. Improving your stamina, speed, balance, coordination, and flexibility along with strength and muscle will improve your quality of life substantially more. You'll be able to do far more activities, especially later in life.
I heard probably from Jeff Nippard, could even by Mike that about 60minutes of weight lifting a week will get you the maximum benefits from it health wise. exercise wise probably the 150 minutes cardio (x2 for vigorous) that basically means a bit of brisk walking, fell walking, gentle cycling etc. not the guys running marathons, gyming it x5 a week
As a martial arts instructor, I agree it's incredibly important to have healthy mobility. I have met people in their early 30s that can't even pass your test.
that would be me. But I've started working on it.
I have no idea what "going pro" looks like financially, but I'd imagine to become seriously wealthy doing bodybuilding you'd need a massive initial investment in the endeavor (which is prohibitively expensive), sponsors & endorsements to compound your initial investment, then dump any dividends from that into production of your own product lines, which is insanely expensive as well. It just doesn't seem feasible to become wealthy from bodybuilding unless you have seed capital to begin with.
& I'm not talking about $20 & big dreams, I mean several millions of dollars to launch your own product lines of all sorts of bogus fitness products, workout videos, marketing/advertising for protein shakes & pre workout crap, gym apparel, etc.
Honestly it's easier, if you have that kind of wealth to begin with, to just buy majority shares in something that already makes money & sit on the board of shareholders. Collect passive income. Why destroy yourself with steroids & years of insanity when you can just do what most people who inherit a golden parachute do & collect passive income from "ownership"?
Really makes no sense to me.
@@Matthew.E.Kelly. if you think it takes millions of dollars to start a business you're sorely out of touch with reality.
@coffeebot7016 no, starting a business doesn't take millions -- you can spin your wheels for a decade or so on a $650,000 or $750,000 startup, watch a bunch of libertarian/ancap podcasts to tell you how free markets work, & beg, borrow, or steal as much free labor from your friends, co-workers, & relatives (possibly children if you have any) as possible, then say aw shucks looks like the free market decided my product was junk 😫
Or you can inherit business connections, network with other people who had connections & inherited wealth/privilege, boost each other by buying out the local chamber of commerce for a few hundred thousand bucks a year, corner a market by simply being born with more hours per day than the average person, sleep 2 minutes a night & spend the remaining 23 hours 57 minutes of every day "on the grind", whatever that means 😆
Sure. It doesn't take millions of dollars to be "'competitive" in a world market of quadrillions of dollars. & I've got a bridge in NYC you can buy from me, too.
I think his point was that he didn't want to seem hypocritical.
And the criteria for using them basically excluded everybody.
I have never nor will ever use them. The cost definitely outweighs any benefit they might have.
I feel you man, its a whole different approach to sports, health, your life. ❤ Be an older brother for them guys and keep sharing what you actually LOST doing drugs.
Bro, I legit heard at 0:20 'I've been doing it [coaching] for two days. Loving it ...' Yes, decades, it's decades :D
I heard the same, I think he ment 2 decades
Yo! What’s up Jonni! Hope your Friday is going well! Keep up the good work!
I just very easily got down and up without using my hands, and I'm 67 years old. I lift, stretch, pray and meditate, play sports with other people, walk, cycle, and swim. It seems to me that training sleeping and eating well keeps the endocrine system in tune. This can be ruined by exogenous hormones. Why would anyone do that? Lifting is key because the learning and adaptation continues as the body ages. We learn how to scale the training to our condition from day to day through the week, and year to year as we age. Younger people, don't throw this into the trash. Hang in there naturally. Cheers everyone!
3:48 sounds like he says “rectal dysfunction” 😂🤣😂🤣 That doesn’t sound like a fun time at all 😂😂🤣🤣
drug addicts will always have an excuse to use drugs, and they will shamelessly get others to use it too. thank you for the rant, jonni. i have lost some respect for dr mike as of late as an educator. i learned a lot from his older lectures on hypertrophy and nutrition, but as a natural lifter and novice i can't take advice from an enhanced guy who's looking to make money to support his drug habit. he is still funny, but i can't take him seriously as a "scientist" or doctor now that he's actually advising people to take steroids despite knowing the negatives. note that the video is not "why you shouldn't take steroids" but "here's reasons why you should." thanks jonni.
Well said my man 😁👍
There's nothing wrong with the advice he is giving. You are pulling a Greg and using this to stir up drama and clout.
@@Sean-md4dn there is when he doesn’t qualify that the advice is for the rare few. The way he talks makes people think they may be the one. Nope.
Based
Personally I liked Mike's video and I found it discouraging towards juice.
Your take of the video is different but I value you opinion.
Love from Italy 🇮🇹💪🏻🧠
I'm 64, never done 'roids and am happy with my workouts. I know how to push myself harder in a workout than I did in my 20's and 30's. I'm happy with my strength and how I look. I'll never go on a bodybuilding stage and creatine and protein are enough for me. Eat healthy, sleep well and live long...
I remember when i was doing orientation for a local gym i used to work for as a trainer , i had a kid about 22 yrs old in my orientation class who was obviously on gear offer to hook me up with his connect. Mind you im 33 at this time and while not super jacked im pretty strong for my age , weight and height because ive been running the wendler 531 program for almost 10 years at this point and i know i have a long way to go before i even hit my natural potential so doing roids would not only be unhealthy it would be stupid. So many young guys are looking for cheat codes nowadays instead of just putting in the work.
Like you pretty much stated in this video , unless a person has top tier genetics and plan on competing there is no reason they should be on gear but so many dudes that only hit their local LA fitness take gear just to feel big and strong at a commercial gym. Good video!!!
Dr. Mike, the IFFB No! "My tan was perfect even being black" 😅 We all know it was the tan Mike 😂😂
Have a friend who competed he was on gear and came dam near dead last.
Loved what you said about health and fitness! getting up from the floor...lol...perfect! at 61 that's the focus now
Jonni Doucette?
People literally forget these 'enhancements' are illegal.
SM has normalized steroids to the point that most people don't even factor that into their decision.
Not really bro. You could get a lot of gear completely legal prescribed by a doctor and compounded by a legit pharmacy from the US. For example. Deca, test, winstrol, anavar, mk677, bpc157, and other peptides. All legal, all pharm grade.
Steroids are completely legal in Canada. You can literally go online and buy them if you so choose. Here's a little snippet for you on the legalities.
In Canada, anabolic steroids and their derivatives are considered "Controlled
Substances" and as such it is illegal to manufacture, import, export or sell these substances. Canadian Forces members are not exempt from this legislation and this is
further reiterated in the Canadian Forces Drug Control Program as outlined in CFAO 19-21. Despite all of the above, using anabolic steroids is not illegal.
Just thought I would point that out.
Your natty limit is when u just get old otherwise nothing is stoping u from improving
Agreed
This video is either a masterclass in failing media literacy and reading/hearing comprehension - or an intentional attempt to create a "beef" with another "influencer" as clickbait, through blatant straw manning.
I see you put _a lot of effort_ into your content, what with the misspelling of Dr. Israetel's name in the video description and all... Maybe that _Dr. Mike "Israteal"_ does give bad advice - who knows? Does he have a RUclips channel too, where I could find out who he is and what he has to say?
Johnny I’m 56 I tried getting up and down off the floor. No lie you got me scared I’m going to start changing what I’m doing Thank u
Although "dr" mike has acknowledged that he has quit doing steroids because he wants to preserve his iq, he still hasn't discussed the major contradiction within bodybuilding: gambling with your body and health in order to get more muscular. If you want to build muscle correctly then you have to be healthy or else you're cheating yourself and are more likely to face hardship via injury or loss of bodily functions. I agree that any doctor who so easily allows the use of diabolics (edit: anabolics 😆 excuse the freudian slip) is questionable in their self. A live a let live mentality should not be applied to any type of substance abuse.
100%
Surprisingly I did the floor thing with ease! 210 lbs able to do 10 plus pistol squats and have been lifting for like 25 years haha. Takes a lot to be even decently fit.
The interpretation that he's encouraging illegal use undermines the good points you were making. Right after mocking his statement about needing a team of doctors no less.
I'm still a fan that will continue watching your content, but this ended up an emotional rant with contradicting arguments. It could've been a good philosophical contrast with Dr. Mike's.
Props on standing for health, longevity, and being there for the family.
I love your passion. I feel the same way about issues that I'm an activist for.
@@BruceWayne-jg3hv we don't really care lol
Unbelievable how you can miss the point of such a clear video.
JS , I think you did not understand his message. He put so many absurd conditions , that as you have explained it - literally makes no sense to even start.
You practically digested his points.
Oh no, he understood the message. He's just being misleading. Because you can't clout chase as easy if you don't straw man the video you're critiquing.
@@isthatachallenge2196 i have nothing against constructive critique but I don't see anything to chew on in Mike's video. There are plenty that could be tho, his fanatic view on how muscle is built to his view on functional training for athletes.
But this one ? nada.
I used to like your content, but criticizing Dr. Mike really hurts your credibility.
Watch Dr. Mike's video again ant this time try to understand what he's saying!
Seems like you don't grasp Mike's sarcasm. Like, at all.
Stupid RUclips doesn't let me edit my typo...
unfollowed for terrible misrepresentation
Bye Felicia
Nobody knows who you are or will miss you Karen.
the only coach that keeps it 100 while others dont
🥜 riding much?
It is what it is(Max Holloway)
Damn bro was very passionate in this video. I respect it. 💪🏽
I just want to say that I sat on my ass without using my hands and I got up without using my hands with ease and I'm 30. Idk what point I was combatting but I did it😤
i can do it with ease but i also train in the stretched postion and my goal is to be able to do split after gaining significant size and muscle. (another 20lbs)
I lost 186lbs and im trying to build muscles without getting fat again. People are always trying to get me to take things. I never will, im not even responsible enough to keep up creatine for a month lol
11:15 preach!
So tired of people pretending they have maximised their genes or cannot go further because of their aging body (along with bs excuses like slower metabolism etc)
Tried the test - got down on the floor, and back up again with ease! 45 years old. Great video Jonni - that one from Mike raised an eyebrow for sure.
Thing is being an IFBB pro only really helps if you've got social media and/or if you're a personal trainer (or other fitness related jobs). If the prize is 1000$ for winning that's nothing, you spend wayy more on other things in order to achive that win.
Can I still work out pretty hard going into 40s I'm actually in really good shape
Ideally, nobody is using steroids except for very specific medical issues. Unfortunately, that's not the world we live in. Recreational steroid use is through the roof. Reality is that if everybody followed Mike's criteria, it would go down substantially. You might still disagree with the remnant of users, but at least it would be a smaller group. I really think most people dramatically underestimate the scale of the problem, because many users simply don't look like they use.
Honestly if i didn't have 2 jobs, I'd practice shaolin and bodybuilding, that was the most mobility I've ever had. I love that you mentioned the health and fitness industry isn't focused on health. Jonni, this video was absolutely necessary, dr mike shouldn't be advocating steroids in the slightest
big fqcts thats why i fuck with big bro and prefer to stay natural
Bro the only thing I want to do is be in the gym.... Occasionally break random stuff.... Get more hours at my job I do demolition....
He just Tell You WHEN You should consider to take Steroids and When You Shouldnt and the ONLY Reason he mentions is when You Really Really Really Want to become a Fulltime Pro Bodybuilder.
Imma be honest, all these vids that pop up about steroids just come across the same as abortion debates, body modification, etc. I honestly cant care any less, so imma go ahead and skip this one. Love your stuff tho, jonni! Even if i dont always agree with your takes. ❤️
What happened to turk builder results
missed the point
rewatch and listen to what he actually says
Got down on the floor, tried to get up with no hands, been lying here two weeks trying. My cardio sucks.
My question is what about trt? Technically that's taking steroids isn't it? Is that also bad for you?
From what I’ve researched and speaking with my doctor, if your test levels are low, then TRT will improve a lot of things and make you healthier. I took it for about a year, and it helped me a lot. You should speak with a medical professional though to make sure it’s right for you.
Depends. Legitimate TRT for a legitimate medical reason? Healthy as long as it is being monitored closely.
Internet "TRT" from these clinics prescribing 200mg per week permanently? Yeah, not too healthy.
Im 37 and been training since i was 12 so i guess im more than qualified to get on any gear i want even though i always get results when i start a new fitness routine im going to screw it up because by Mike's standards im overqualified to, and i do construction work so yes i can get on the floor and back up without the help of my hands.
Steriods are illegal in most countries, but in some it's legal to own but not to sell right. So technically if its about the legality then you good to go but it's not, if you want to look big it's not worth it but to compete it might be, but vanity comes into play and men are often insecure about their size.
Like a lot of people in these comments have said, you've taken what hes said the wrong way
I like Dr Mike. Dr Mike’s video is like watching a meth user tell you why and why not use meth. In fact there are no good reasons to use, it’s illegal, and the ones Dr Mike lists are really his reasons. I do however think his transparency about the downsides is a net positive.
Dr Mike is rich he should get off all these TRT’s and try to live and enjoy his money
i can do it with ease (i also did competitive cheer/tumbling lol)
So agree with you my friend
Thx 🙏
That fitness
Could barely stand up without the chair...
There are several reasons not to hop on, the bad outweighs the good. They lower IQ significantly. They can stunt your growth and height if you take them before you’re done growing. They can turn you bald and give you serious acne. They weaken your connective tissues and joints, making it easier to tear muscles or tendons because the muscle growth outgrows tendons at a faster rate on gear. They’re harder on the heart and liver, giving you worse cardiovascular health. The good, you pack on more muscle I guess, some people don’t pack on any noticeable amount when they hop on. If you do have great genetics you maybe could become an IFBB Pro. Doesn’t mean you’ll win first place though.
But why is it good to pack on more muscles than your natural limit?
@ that’s the only
benefit you gain from roids. You pack on muscle and strength at a much faster rate. It’s a shortcut.
I did get down and turns out i suprised myself a little and its easy to get down and up without my hands now.
But its nit been an easy road to get here. An ex 400 lbs guy dropped to 165 back at 225 but working out a lot now and always tempted by steroids but i know im nowehre near my limit.
I know its a risk to my life and everything else but as you know its just a hard decision. Specially as a 35 year old with a history of alcohol and food addiction i have overcome.
Blah shits complicated out here
Bro that's easy - the first two pieces are super easy
I feel like y'all are both kinda hitting this from different angles yet in a circular reasoning sense, coming to an anti steroid position.
Mike: "you should really only consider steroids if you're going to go pro"
Johnni " but lemme tell you how stupid of a goal going pro is!"
Johnni's argument changes the person's mind, thereby making them no longer qualified to take gear by Mike's stance.
From now on Jonnie is in the rivalry list of mike too😅😅😅
I feel like he is yelling at his younger self for his choices
When did he say this will make you live longer?
@@nicksmith3431 ?
I Love Dr Mike's content but this video needed to be made, well don Jonni. The one glaring issue Mike (and others) omits is actual potential. Mike himself doesnt have the genetic potential to be an IFBB pro, let alone a profitable one. So in essence he gambled his health and it didnt pay off. The vast majority of people hopping on gear have unrealistic expectations.
Idk this video was a little too hard for no reason. Morality shouldn't influence the facts. The fact is, people take steroids to "better themselves." Nobody has the power to change that. But you do have the opportunity to educate the public on how to properly go about steroid use, just like Mike was trying to do. I would rather see someone know all the pros and cons than someone who jumps on because they don't know how to deal with body dysmorphia
We really need you to talk about Aston hall and his exercises
I can get up and down with no arms 😮
Cops: "are you okay to drive?"
Lady: ☠️
Europe is legal as well. A lot of countries it's legal. A doc prescribes it and it's legal as well. He's not telling people to break the law. And also he is trying not to be a hipocrite. You yourself have used steroids...
That video is just trying to get cloud im sorry, you are willingly misunderstanding shit he says to rant about it
@@j0n4h.p1z answer the question
1. You watch the whole video.
2. Do you reside in the United States
@@JonniShreve im from germany where anabolics are illegal aswell im pretty sure but its just a fact that if you wanna make it in the ifbb you have to use roids. That was one point of his for steroids and thats just true, not saying its something thats smart to pursue but some just want to and i dont think anyone except them should decide that. The other point he mentioned was weird imo ill say that, and i would use steroids myself, i wouldnt use anything thats not from my doctor cause i had substance problems in the past. But i think the point of the video in general was that 99% of the people dont fulfill his points to take them and therefore they shouldnt but thats just how i understood the video. I thought everyone did.
No big deal in the UK and legal in Thailand..
Nicely done!
Bruh, I feel like Dr Mike is being sarcastic with his approach as he often is. He is not advising useage. He is full on telling you a bunch of negatives that are seemingly absurd.
think of how careless both angles would be.
@@JonniShreve true. Not everyone gets sarcasm. I appreciate your point of view.
I agree with the mobility stuff if you feel like you're close to your genetic limit in strength. Don't understand the appeal of steroids if you prioritize athleticism and life long term. One thing you said here Johnni tho was that you're not close to you're genetic limit in strength and muscle, but i've heard you before saying you're goal is to maintain the muscle mass you have as long as you can.
I have a PhD in experience hmm I do believe there's a reason you cannot get a PhD based only on experience but that was a wild sign atement to make
It's not your place to make that decission for them. I would never take PEDs and I think it's stupid to gamble your health for gains, however I accept that other people will not feel that way and they should have the information available to make an informed choice on their own health. Saying just don't do it isn't really all that helpfull.
Informed choice? People that start on gear abuse it. The information should be: do not take it.
The only coach that talks shit about everyone. The biggest hater.
Sebastien, did you even watch the video before making such an obvious emotional comment
The Shreve, Dr. Mike, Doucette trifecta. These three guys have hammered down the youtube algorithm. They are playing WWF/WWE on RUclips. They love and hate each other and are playing you like a tuned violin. Let's watch....
I’m pretty sure he’s just being sarcastic. But thanks for pointing this out.
Imagine making a video being sarcastic and assuming everyone everyone can read sarcasm?
would you consider that bodybuilding played a factor into your youtube career? yeah you could’ve been in youtube without trying to complete the goal of gear free bodybuilding. I won’t lie to you, i’m saying this with love and forgiveness, you are being defensive towards the way that you perceive the way that the right advice should look like. the demeanor between the two of you, I apologize for not remembering the other gentleman’s name, he is simply giving objective advice and laying down the roadwork for the people that fit the criteria that he said. 7:40 you refuted his statement by saying do you know how many people that have been training, that are the age of 25, that have been training for ten years that I KNOW? and it shows that you do know people who fit his criteria you just aren’t being objective. love you dude, think about the message I wrote and be honest with me from an objective perspective.
Isreatel is just another academic who feels that because he is schooled in certain things that he knows it all. I’m tired of people like this. Just because you’re an educated academic person does NOT mean you know everything.
He has never claimed to "know everything", whatever that's supposed mean. And please explain how the hell you would know how "he feels"? You can't even spell his name correctly, but you think you know what goes on in his head?
Maybe don't project your own insecurities about your lack or education, knowledge, and (possibly) intelligence onto other people? See? Now I assume how you "feel". Did you like that? Probably not, right?
10:00 ok but heres the thing: most people dont have genetics like that, and most of the people using gear are just trying to look barely that good.
Thats why the steroid epidemic is so huge and spreading more and more to average lifters. Everyone wants the body, because the body is a currency. It opens the door to relationships, being treated better by people, better access to śě'x, et cetera.
Most people, even giving it thier all, will not reach that goal even if they dedicate decades to building a physique. Theyll end up with some half baked, fatter version of Tobey Maguires 2001 spiderman physique, which might have been enough 20 years ago, but doesnt even come close today.
The people who are using gear to look like CBum are like .01% of the people using gear. Most are using it to look like the physique you take for granted at 21. You are genetically blessed. Youve never had to worry about being genetically inferior, and unable to find a partner. Your perspective is disjointed from what real people have to live with.
Whaaaaaaaaat the whole point of that example of Cbum was showing that even that good, the risk and reward aren't worth it. Because if you aren't that good, doing steroids to become a pro will be USELESS. And again, you are MISSING the point. STEROIDS ARE ILLEGAL. Why do you all keep pushing the goals post just to justify idiotic advice? So to you, if you have bad genetics, you should take illegal drugs???
@@JonniShreve again; my point is that the people doing steroids are not trying to be pro. They are trying to get that big chest, big shoulder "men's fitness" look that automatically comes with perks and benefits. People who look like that are automatically given favor by people of both sexes (re: halo effect) and are seen as more attractive (even butterfaces) meaning it is far easier to court a partner or even have a śļūt-phase with dating apps. Guys that look frumpy, or even skinny guys that are fit but look like most marathoners(no muscle) do not have the automatic śë'x appeal that facilitates those common wants and desires.
That's my point. You don't know what it's like to not even be considered as human when it comes to dating and relationships because when you were old enough to have to worry about that, you already had an elite physique.
So to put it bluntly: yes, for the vast majority of people the opinion is "if you don't have good genetics, you need to use stêröïds to even the playing field" because you can't even play the game unless you hit the physique barrier to entry.
I think competing is dumb. I understand the desire. I don’t want to seem like a assh*le. But...
People ruin there lives to compete and try to becomes a pro. Men, women...do something else.
I got up very easily off the ground 🙏😂
You should bring Chris Jones from PumpChasers on. You are he would get along super well and Chris is freaking hilarious.
Idk man, this seems petty. Hes not advocating that you do them, hes just informing you of the inherent risks involved if you choose to go that route. Which if we're being honest, is quite a lot of people. Let's not pretend that people using steroids are on the same level as junkies or crackheads, and thats coming from an ex heroin and cocaine abuser my damn self.
Mike's vid was dumb cause it adressed 5 people ... and Jonni might got it all wrong because of some statements Mike made (not really paying attention too). But Maybe it all was a plan to entertain us and deliver clicks & drama for them :D
Respect Romania Jony Gym Vlogurilor Faceți
It's a class 4 in some states
Jonni slowly turning into Greg Goddamn Doucette. People who are going to do steroids are going to do steroids. Mike is being very overly sarcastic in his video and basically narrowing it down to the point that he’s saying NO ONE should do steroids. I thought you guys were friends..