The risk of nuclear confrontation in 2023 pales in comparison with the importance of the topic discussed in the video... Love the gravity of narration and the depth of research that went into production. This controversy is the only one that has kept me awake at night over the past decade or so... Just kidding, of course... Thanks for the video..
I like palming my poles instead of gripping them so I hope someone comes up with a hooked handle top on one of these. My favorite currently is the G3 carbon something. They are adjustable but I haven't changed the length on them ever. They are permanently set at somewhere around 135/140 (I'm 6'2") and I use them as fixed length poles. I like the G3s because you can unclip the strap and it doesn't get in the way. But having grown up cross country skiing I do find straps useful if you're doing lots of flat land striding. Anything to keep the forearm muscles from working overtime.
Glad to see someone addressing the use of long poles for covering ground. I feel that everyone that considers themself a “backcountry skier” would do themselves a favor if they spent some time on XC skis, learning how to cover ground efficiently. I see so many skinning skiers clomping along like they are on snowshoes rather than sliding their feet forward! And that’s only the most obvious traveling “mistake” they’re making…there are lots of other subtle ways to make your trips quicker and easier!
Absolutely, it doesn't help that the most popular influencers if you will in our sport, like Cody Townsend also don't even know how to move efficiently like this and still walk like they are wearing snowshoes
That’s exactly who I was thinking of! I have tons of respect for his downhill skills, but sometimes watching him cover ground (especially on the big traverses) is painful to watch! He’s definitely not the only one to move inefficiently on the flats (he’s just one of the most notable)…I see lots of local folks clomping along too, forgetting that those things on their feet are meant to SLIDE! It must be exhausting picking those things up with every step🥵
Obviously long poles are more efficient, but show me a Nordic racer that doesn't use pole straps. Covering long flats with batons without straps is inefficient and a recipe for elbow tendonitis. I think these poles have a place in steep skiing but not long tours.
@@doughutchinson1736 miss u Doug. Scott rc pro poles ( another available option) have quick removable and adjustable straps for long poles that skimo.co sells separately. I don't mind poling without straps but I agree that it definitely puts a lot of strain on your forearms.
I think not liking extended poles is becoming more of a hot take... I have black diamond traverses that I like much more than long poles. They are 2 segment poles and are definitely more durable than many adjustable poles. I like the added utility of being able to use a whippet and find that I am much more likely to stop and put it on than voile strapping a gully to my pole. They are also much more intentionaly designed to arrest in soft snow than a gully. Also the hammer gully + alpine whippit is an awesome combo. The whippit holes also work with a tent I have which is very convenient. I do really like the long grip for sidehilling so I just added tennis racket grip tape to extend the grip. I really like having a bit of shape at the end of my pole for messing with bindings and haven't felt that it compromises my ability to plunge the pole and look for slabs or as a anchor. Personally when I ski with long poles I feel like it hinders my skiing and I have trouble staying forward. If I am doing long laps and want the added efficiency I can make them as long as 145 and then shrink then down to 120 or if I'm doing hot laps I just leave them at 125. I will admit the mechanism freezes sometimes which is annoying but I find that I want the ability to adjust them more in spring anyway. This is also a bit niche but I love the baskets on the BD traverse poles too as they don't have anything on the front half and make dragging your pole forward while touring easier. As far as being able to use them as an anchor people rap off of sticks and Snickers bars so I think any ski pole would be fine. If you were worried about it you could also just take the segments apart and stack them. The ability to take the pole apart is also nice as a improvised splint. Just my preferences and why!
This is what I needed a while ago, I needed a super strong pole to hoist my FA up in deep pow….All the poles, even the fixed ones seem like they will bend and break as soon as you apply load.
At 6’5” and 220#, I totally agree that regular adjustable poles are WAY too weak to be dependable. But, since I like having a real grip to hold onto, I don’t like “long grip” poles…I make my own adjustable poles by using a regular alpine pole with a homemade extension coming out of the TOP of the pole. That way, the extension is fully retracted in “downhill mode” (giving me a full-strength one piece pole) while still allowing me to pull out the extension and have a longer pole for climbing and covering the flats.
Couldn’t agree with you more! Have tried them all and find most lacking. I think we need to band together to launch a proper fixed length, long grip pole!
@anthonyorkiolla, you successfully converted me to long fixed grip poles. I bought a pair of the A2-16 and love them... Any opinions about whippets with respect to these poles? I've occasionally just ski strapped an ice axe to my poles (which has worked) but it doesn't seem quite as safe/nice as a more compact whippet.
I'm very anti whippet. I subscribe to the euro mentality of if you think you need a whippet, you either need an axe and pons or you are in over your head.
for steep terrain they are really good to choke up, have had some amazing times with them, but i do like my 120 leki poles too. i recommend any discerning skier get them and practice with them. My longer poles have definitely helped a lot on boot packs as well, but the leki's do just fine too. my longer ones are 125.... el batons
With the exception of the fact that they are not designed from a durability standpoint for use in the resort, tech bindings are proven and really going to the resort in them is totally fine. Obviously knowing that you will have less damping you will cause more wear at a faster rate and you will not release as easily. Should a beginner learn in tech bindings at the resort? Absolutely not. But I don't think that there is a problem with occasional resort days in tech bindings if that's just what you have. I think it's fair to say that people like hoji and Nikolai have both proven that tech bindings can be skied harder and faster in any type of terrain than what any human is capable of skiing.
@@thicccboyztv I think there's also the issue of the jarring suspension of tech bindings being less ideal for heavy resort use. Not a big deal for occasional resort use, but if you're predominantly lift-served it's another consideration.
Hooha, while spitting a boar with your poles may seem essential the sauce takes up too much room in my pack. I use the adjustability of my poles from 110 to 145, 145 is long. I noticed while skinning the other day that I often prefer to have my hands on the pole top with the straps on for extra leverage . Having your hands on top is more efficient than a pole grip when there is a bump in the road that you need to climb over, less energy used. I often use my poles for a rappel but then my poles are at the top of the hill and I am at the bottom and have to skin home with no poles.
I ski more days than patrol and never happened to me or homies. Obviously seeing someone skiing inbounds with these is a red flag on their experience level.
@@thicccboyztv Obviously almost nothing serious happens very often so do what makes you happy. I’m old now and adjusting my pole length is the least of my issues in the BC. Thanks for the perspective.
I can see the advantage for steep booting in soft, layered snow. I might get a pair for early season. For steep booting in firm or icy snow, I just 'choke up' on my poles (which are adjustable, but not in this case). For downhill in steeps, the long poles look awful. I like straps. Just sayin'.
ive moved away from carbon this season becasue of breaking numerous carbon poles in extreme cold and using heavily(hitting boot to get snow off) - aluminum hasn't broken yet, but i do like the light weight and more suspension of the carbon, but don't trust them for bc, inbounds they are doable, if they break i can get a new pair but too risky for out of bounds
These poles 90 percent of the time make you a less powerful skier. The poles are simply jut too long to be practical for skiing slopes less than say 50 degrees where you need to really reach down on a jump turn. For any kind of gs style turn the length is in the way and it makes for really pooor style. You would be better off with an adjustable pole that you can lengthen when need be.
I think for many people "power" isn't what is needed. On a corn run its not hard to be hitting 40 and even 50 mph in good conditions without poles. Risk/reward nobody has much business doing that in the backcountry and most people are skiing like 20mph or less. If you need poles to ski aggressively then I don't know what to tell yah. But the premise of long poles is really about efficiency of movement, supposing that you can ski as aggressively as you want without "needing" poles.
@@thicccboyztv Well contrary to what all these stupid fkt fucks are doing flailing down the mountains many of us appreciate fluid powerful riding. Takes 10 seconds to adjust your poles for the descent. Not sure people need to save 10 seconds of their day and compromise downhill performance like that.
Funny how you keep referring to anyone that doesn't use this type of pole as a beginner in the backcountry. I've been skiing in the backcountry for 35 years, and don't use them! :) Each to their own.
most people that are watching my stuff haven't been around the block like you have and haven't made efficiencies around less efficient tools. You have probably adapted your technique to move as efficient as you please with less efficient tools. What is efficient for you, however, may not be the most efficient tool available. That's all this is about. 35 years of habit building (if they are good habits) will outweigh the efficiencies of a particular design. But for people who are willing to adopt different styles, there certainly is a difference in efficacy.
@THICCC BOYZ TV not sure I would agree about the efficiency part of your argument. You have some good points about the positives of this type of pole but personally I see as many negative points to them. As i said, each to their own. At the end of the day, it's about what you're used to. The important thing is that we're all out there having fun. Most important thing is that we're staying safe. 😀
Adjustable poles don't suck. It is YOUR opinion that they suck. Mine is they don't. Well see what sort of retort you come up with to dispute MY OPINION.
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The risk of nuclear confrontation in 2023 pales in comparison with the importance of the topic discussed in the video... Love the gravity of narration and the depth of research that went into production. This controversy is the only one that has kept me awake at night over the past decade or so... Just kidding, of course... Thanks for the video..
I like palming my poles instead of gripping them so I hope someone comes up with a hooked handle top on one of these. My favorite currently is the G3 carbon something. They are adjustable but I haven't changed the length on them ever. They are permanently set at somewhere around 135/140 (I'm 6'2") and I use them as fixed length poles. I like the G3s because you can unclip the strap and it doesn't get in the way. But having grown up cross country skiing I do find straps useful if you're doing lots of flat land striding. Anything to keep the forearm muscles from working overtime.
Glad to see someone addressing the use of long poles for covering ground. I feel that everyone that considers themself a “backcountry skier” would do themselves a favor if they spent some time on XC skis, learning how to cover ground efficiently. I see so many skinning skiers clomping along like they are on snowshoes rather than sliding their feet forward! And that’s only the most obvious traveling “mistake” they’re making…there are lots of other subtle ways to make your trips quicker and easier!
Absolutely, it doesn't help that the most popular influencers if you will in our sport, like Cody Townsend also don't even know how to move efficiently like this and still walk like they are wearing snowshoes
That’s exactly who I was thinking of! I have tons of respect for his downhill skills, but sometimes watching him cover ground (especially on the big traverses) is painful to watch! He’s definitely not the only one to move inefficiently on the flats (he’s just one of the most notable)…I see lots of local folks clomping along too, forgetting that those things on their feet are meant to SLIDE! It must be exhausting picking those things up with every step🥵
@@johns3106 the difference being that the locals aren't getting paid to do what they do 😂
Obviously long poles are more efficient, but show me a Nordic racer that doesn't use pole straps. Covering long flats with batons without straps is inefficient and a recipe for elbow tendonitis. I think these poles have a place in steep skiing but not long tours.
@@doughutchinson1736 miss u Doug. Scott rc pro poles ( another available option) have quick removable and adjustable straps for long poles that skimo.co sells separately. I don't mind poling without straps but I agree that it definitely puts a lot of strain on your forearms.
I think not liking extended poles is becoming more of a hot take... I have black diamond traverses that I like much more than long poles. They are 2 segment poles and are definitely more durable than many adjustable poles. I like the added utility of being able to use a whippet and find that I am much more likely to stop and put it on than voile strapping a gully to my pole. They are also much more intentionaly designed to arrest in soft snow than a gully. Also the hammer gully + alpine whippit is an awesome combo. The whippit holes also work with a tent I have which is very convenient. I do really like the long grip for sidehilling so I just added tennis racket grip tape to extend the grip. I really like having a bit of shape at the end of my pole for messing with bindings and haven't felt that it compromises my ability to plunge the pole and look for slabs or as a anchor. Personally when I ski with long poles I feel like it hinders my skiing and I have trouble staying forward. If I am doing long laps and want the added efficiency I can make them as long as 145 and then shrink then down to 120 or if I'm doing hot laps I just leave them at 125. I will admit the mechanism freezes sometimes which is annoying but I find that I want the ability to adjust them more in spring anyway. This is also a bit niche but I love the baskets on the BD traverse poles too as they don't have anything on the front half and make dragging your pole forward while touring easier. As far as being able to use them as an anchor people rap off of sticks and Snickers bars so I think any ski pole would be fine. If you were worried about it you could also just take the segments apart and stack them. The ability to take the pole apart is also nice as a improvised splint. Just my preferences and why!
This is what I needed a while ago, I needed a super strong pole to hoist my FA up in deep pow….All the poles, even the fixed ones seem like they will bend and break as soon as you apply load.
At 6’5” and 220#, I totally agree that regular adjustable poles are WAY too weak to be dependable. But, since I like having a real grip to hold onto, I don’t like “long grip” poles…I make my own adjustable poles by using a regular alpine pole with a homemade extension coming out of the TOP of the pole. That way, the extension is fully retracted in “downhill mode” (giving me a full-strength one piece pole) while still allowing me to pull out the extension and have a longer pole for climbing and covering the flats.
Glad you found a solution that works for you!
Couldn’t agree with you more! Have tried them all and find most lacking. I think we need to band together to launch a proper fixed length, long grip pole!
I copped some Folkrm poles early this season, and really enjoyed them. I got tons of vids of me using um.
@anthonyorkiolla, you successfully converted me to long fixed grip poles. I bought a pair of the A2-16 and love them... Any opinions about whippets with respect to these poles? I've occasionally just ski strapped an ice axe to my poles (which has worked) but it doesn't seem quite as safe/nice as a more compact whippet.
I'm very anti whippet. I subscribe to the euro mentality of if you think you need a whippet, you either need an axe and pons or you are in over your head.
for steep terrain they are really good to choke up, have had some amazing times with them, but i do like my 120 leki poles too. i recommend any discerning skier get them and practice with them. My longer poles have definitely helped a lot on boot packs as well, but the leki's do just fine too. my longer ones are 125.... el batons
Good points, maybe I should reconsider. But I see these way too often in the resort (as well as tech bindings)!
With the exception of the fact that they are not designed from a durability standpoint for use in the resort, tech bindings are proven and really going to the resort in them is totally fine. Obviously knowing that you will have less damping you will cause more wear at a faster rate and you will not release as easily. Should a beginner learn in tech bindings at the resort? Absolutely not. But I don't think that there is a problem with occasional resort days in tech bindings if that's just what you have. I think it's fair to say that people like hoji and Nikolai have both proven that tech bindings can be skied harder and faster in any type of terrain than what any human is capable of skiing.
@@thicccboyztv I think there's also the issue of the jarring suspension of tech bindings being less ideal for heavy resort use. Not a big deal for occasional resort use, but if you're predominantly lift-served it's another consideration.
Hooha, while spitting a boar with your poles may seem essential the sauce takes up too much room in my pack. I use the adjustability of my poles from 110 to 145, 145 is long. I noticed while skinning the other day that I often prefer to have my hands on the pole top with the straps on for extra leverage . Having your hands on top is more efficient than a pole grip when there is a bump in the road that you need to climb over, less energy used. I often use my poles for a rappel but then my poles are at the top of the hill and I am at the bottom and have to skin home with no poles.
I can't remember ever putting my poles in my pack? When do you do this?
When you catch one of those long handles in the face during a fall it may change your mind some. Being a patrolman I’ve seen it a few times.
I ski more days than patrol and never happened to me or homies. Obviously seeing someone skiing inbounds with these is a red flag on their experience level.
@@thicccboyztv
Obviously almost nothing serious happens very often so do what makes you happy. I’m old now and adjusting my pole length is the least of my issues in the BC. Thanks for the perspective.
I can see the advantage for steep booting in soft, layered snow. I might get a pair for early season. For steep booting in firm or icy snow, I just 'choke up' on my poles (which are adjustable, but not in this case). For downhill in steeps, the long poles look awful. I like straps. Just sayin'.
ive moved away from carbon this season becasue of breaking numerous carbon poles in extreme cold and using heavily(hitting boot to get snow off) - aluminum hasn't broken yet, but i do like the light weight and more suspension of the carbon, but don't trust them for bc, inbounds they are doable, if they break i can get a new pair but too risky for out of bounds
i would 100% loose one on my first time trying them
Heritage Labs? Which model?
I have the c132 in this video. I also just got the c113, c105 and bc90. I'll be doing a review of them in the coming months.
I just ordered the fr110.
Ok what’s the drawback
They look silly and in absolute terms if you have weaker wrists or need poles to ski confidently you can't pole plant as hard.
I'm afraid to drop it
These poles 90 percent of the time make you a less powerful skier. The poles are simply jut too long to be practical for skiing slopes less than say 50 degrees where you need to really reach down on a jump turn. For any kind of gs style turn the length is in the way and it makes for really pooor style. You would be better off with an adjustable pole that you can lengthen when need be.
I think for many people "power" isn't what is needed. On a corn run its not hard to be hitting 40 and even 50 mph in good conditions without poles. Risk/reward nobody has much business doing that in the backcountry and most people are skiing like 20mph or less. If you need poles to ski aggressively then I don't know what to tell yah. But the premise of long poles is really about efficiency of movement, supposing that you can ski as aggressively as you want without "needing" poles.
@@thicccboyztv Well contrary to what all these stupid fkt fucks are doing flailing down the mountains many of us appreciate fluid powerful riding. Takes 10 seconds to adjust your poles for the descent. Not sure people need to save 10 seconds of their day and compromise downhill performance like that.
Funny how you keep referring to anyone that doesn't use this type of pole as a beginner in the backcountry. I've been skiing in the backcountry for 35 years, and don't use them! :) Each to their own.
most people that are watching my stuff haven't been around the block like you have and haven't made efficiencies around less efficient tools. You have probably adapted your technique to move as efficient as you please with less efficient tools. What is efficient for you, however, may not be the most efficient tool available. That's all this is about. 35 years of habit building (if they are good habits) will outweigh the efficiencies of a particular design. But for people who are willing to adopt different styles, there certainly is a difference in efficacy.
@THICCC BOYZ TV not sure I would agree about the efficiency part of your argument. You have some good points about the positives of this type of pole but personally I see as many negative points to them. As i said, each to their own. At the end of the day, it's about what you're used to. The important thing is that we're all out there having fun. Most important thing is that we're staying safe. 😀
Adjustable poles don't suck. It is YOUR opinion that they suck. Mine is they don't. Well see what sort of retort you come up with to dispute MY OPINION.
They suck cuz I said so and I'm always right on the internet
@@thicccboyztv Now I know ur a dipstick and a nerd!
@@cyclingbutterbean now I know you have no sense of humor and thus are even more of a nerd than me!
@@thicccboyztv Better a nerd then a snowboarder!