BAD SCIENCE: You Can't Identify a Civilization by Measuring an Artifact
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- Опубликовано: 18 май 2024
- In this excerpt from the video, "When Fake Archaeology Uses Fake Science," the pseudoscience of precisionism is discussed.
Watch the full video here: • When Fake Archaeology ...
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"Tools don't make artifacts, people do."
Very well said.
Yeah, who needs tools when making an aeroplane
As witnessed by the Ancient Egyptian Aerospace industry… 🤡
@@N.Eismann You'll also need people, or you won't get any aereoplanes done.
Ancient Egyptian here. Ah yes, 2.3 million blocks later - lets just continue to cut blocks using copper saws, wooden wedges, and pounding stones and lets not invest in any new tech. Lets do everything by hand! We ancients hate the idea of making things more efficient.
@@San_Vito Okay, you gonna get a welder and a milling machine from 1940. Now make me a Airbus A380.
I am a machinist and I know damn well how you can use a simple stick as a gauge to ensure symmetry. I get more bewildered when people that have no idea how the hi tech machines they use everyday work so easily dismiss the achievements of our ancestors. I know I can carve a granite block but I sure as hell can’t make me an iPhone .
Joggle stick!
Any clown can carve a granite block but can you produce pottery with the precision that we have found from the old kingdom with the tools they apparently used. If you can you should make one and get your work peer reviewed because a lot more highly qualified machinists than you have tried and have stated its impossible with the tools archeologists proclaim they used
i will bet you 5000 dollars you cannot recreate the face in this picture with the accuracy there with bronze age tools. Are you in ?
@@qpmkro of you don't know the difference between accuracy and precision, there's no bet.
@@qpmkro More than in to take you up on that wager…However, it is not a fair bet at all...So first, I would ask you to take some of that money and take a few classes in traditional stone sculpture, and if interested further...???...then experimental archeology. DON'T be close channel to the reality that:
1. The statue in this video exists and its province is known so it was created (minimum 90% accuracy) in an ancient dynastic period…
2. They had the means, and modalities of application within their known materials to achieve everything found in the archaeological record… regardless of the amature naysayers and pseudo-scientists…
3. In that historical period we have enough documentation and tool artifacts to glean what and how it was done...No lost technology at all…
Those three alone (et.al) make your "wager" obtuse, as those with skill...KNOW...how this is done but you have to learn those skills first to appreciate the challenge and difficulty of it with more basic tools...which just means...MORE TIME...to produce the item...NOT...it is impossible, lost technology, aliens, or other nonsense…
If you really have that kind of money to spend on a bet, then spend it more wisely by learning…not betting…Good luck and questions are welcomed...
My Grandfather was a woodworker and a customer was praising his work. Afterwards he nudged me and looked over at the fireplace, " They never saw all the mistakes that went in there."
Savage ❤
A woodworker? Basically mean that you can drive a nail and cut a piece of wood
@@masterdecats6418don't understand .. Savage has multiple meanings . So could you clarify your comment without considering mine hate speech
@@Paulftate Or you could just not be a disingenuous twerp who thinks he's smarter than he really is.
@@Paulftate Yes.
*Pseudo history makes it worse*
“I don’t have info on how *this* society did it, so it must have been done by a society I have *no information* on.”
Please Pause at 0:21 seconds. This image is straight out of Dunn's book and has obvious lack of symmetry at a glance. The offset beard, the off set philtrum( under the nose) and the ear height for example. It is truely incredible how many people this image has fooled as "perfect symmetry".. including right on Rogans podcast of course
@@mroldnewbie Indeed. The best way to do this is to photograph it using a telecentric objective. This way the scale of the artefacts are correct and position accurate. It is basically a perfect projection to a flat/foto. The picture Dunn shows, was likely just a simple objective, rather short focal length too. Terrible for doing photometry!
Absolutely right, anyone can see that the sculpture is not symmetrical. So much fakery out there.
I think that Dunn himself admitted that he wasn't able to place or aim the camera at the exact centre of the face, and only estimated the position by eye.
I read the book, also that piece of core drilling with his "measuring"and "professional"assumption of feed rate etcetera, I hope I don't have to rely on a product he engineered...
The fact that you recognized it tells me you spend too much time looking at gratuitously inaccurate books and podcasts. There's nothing to be gained by wasting your time on such trash. Just learn to recognize it for what it is, and leave it behind. Fill your mind with genuine facts, and there won't be room for the idiocy that's so ridiculously common today. Fifty years ago, that crap wasn't taken nearly so seriously...but skeptical thinking is not generally taught in school. Things have gotten bad, as far as what the general public believes.
Perfect explanation, but it's difficult to convince the brainwashed.
The only people who need concern themselves with convincing the brainwashed are therapists. These explanations are for people who are still open to logic and learning.
It's difficult to reason with people who are ignorant of what makes a logical argument, what are logical flaws, when they are raised in cultures where, from childhood, from infancy, they are taught that the ultimate arguments are appeal to authority and circular reasoning.
@@baronzemo5301 None, thankfully ! I don't live in Europe or the US, the land of the sheep people, it was totally voluntary and not as many people went for it though it was still significant I admit. Those people are now reporting ongoing health issues from after-effects of the jabs such as getting repeated colds and flu, blood pressure issues, heart issues etc. We were lucky as myself and my wife fly a lot but we managed to avoid having to fly anywhere during the panick-demic.
you are the brainwashed. You silly unit
If the Ancient Egyptians made use of antique power tools of some sort, shouldn’t we then expect this high tech to bleed into other aspects of their society? Like making automated grain mills? Tools for household chores? And not to mention the area where cutting edge tech always seem to make its first appearance: The military?
These disciples do not care about explaining things or even asking questions. They care about protecting their orthodoxy. It's disgusting and betrays what actual science is. And look at all these sycophants' slobbering all over them in the comment section when he basically said absolutely nothing.
They were content with the vase and occasional sculpture market. Much more interesting than trains, ships, tractors, cannons, canals, ports, bridges and whatnot.
Well, I am an actual stone mason and as far as I know, the only point of "power tools" is to speed up the manufacturing process, usually for economical purposes. It's still the eye-hand coordination thing that does the actual work -- and if you want "the best work available" this usually means something that someone spent several thousand hours on making, which is still possible to get but it tends to be a million miles outside of the price range normal people will even consider.
_"as far as I know, the only point of "power tools" is _*_to speed up the manufacturing process, usually for economical purposes._*_ It's still the eye-hand coordination thing that does the actual work"_
🎯👏 Bingo!! Our modern tools developed today reflect things we created to make work once done entirely by hand = faster/easier to accomplish. The usual reason as you noted was to facilitate commercial scale manufacturing.
precision machining that is superior to anything that can be handmade has nothing to do with stone masonry first of all. Power tools are primitive machines for builders (im a builder as well). There are machines that can create things into the nanoscale, so no "power tools" or advanced machines are not there to just *speed things up* , they are there to generate a whole new reality of technology on a scale beyond the human eye.
@@Kitties-of-Doom Except you are speaking in terms of the "now" where electronics etc. demand precise micro-tolerances etc.. As relates to the subject-matter however things do not actually need to be so precise.
Also a machine built *to achieve* a specific tolerance is not the same as one built simply to fashion a vase or whatever based upon stylistic design.
Unless you can prove ancient people purposely sought to achieve "X" thousands of an inch or whatever when fashioning something then what was made was simply happenstance. Such metrics only matter if one seeks to duplicate a specific dimension using a specific technology.
@@varyolla435 youre lost in your word salad again,
The subject matter is, whether thru measuring an artifact past or present, can level of technological development of creator of that artifact be determined. And the answer is yes by measuring an artifact and determining it was machined, one would determine high level of tech (machining) and exclude primitive tools and human hands. Millions of examples of it around us today. Miano argues no it cannot and everything machined can be also be hand made with time by "skilled artisans" Which is one of the dumbest things I've seen on the internet in years.
@@Kitties-of-Doom 🥱 No = that is a subjective argument...... Once again measuring a thing in and of itself does not demonstrate origin unless you have some metric to assign said origin to base that off of.
Ergo I could by your "logic" measure a vase with a measuring tape to decry the Egyptians supposedly could not produce it = a purely subjective argument.
Moral: what technology + what evidence of that technology + what evidence to show said technology was employed + what evidence to show said technology was employed to achieve a specific dimension..........
Ben's "argument" is specious as it is all _"I measured something and decided the Egyptians could not do this = except I failed to show why........"_
"If I can't see how something could be done, then it must be impossible."
A one-time fellow student said it as "I assume everyone else is as incompetent as I am."
must be aliens*
I fall for this one sometimes, hate to admit. Like when Twitter first hit, I could not understand how anyone could find it useful since I didn't.
I think that is a better framing for the incorrectness of this pseudoscience than "Tools don't make artifacts, people do". Of course, both people and tools are essential and its a dialectical process, we don't have to think of the question as either or. The reality is that that ancient peoples really could make with simple tools the artifacts that pseudoscientists claim are impossible to be created with such simple tools, as can be empirically demonstrated. Just because it is not readily apparent how basic tools could create something that you associate as being created by modern tools, does not mean that no method with the basic tools exists.
@@cyanpunch6140 Brilliant and well stated...Thank you...
High precision artifacts as evidence for a highly advanced civilization is generally not good evidence, at least based on what they've been able to demonstrate. But to entirely dismiss it is incorrect in concept as well. If an artifact were to be found where carvings were sharpened down to the molecule, and writing could only be observed with a scanning electron microscope, most would agree that a highly advanced civilization had made those artifacts. The issue starts where we draw the line as when precision goes from merely looking precise to unnaturally precise is very subjective. That's the real problem with precisionism. The only way to solve it would be something like what geologists did to determine sand grain size range, and in a committee setting.
With that being said there are no artifact tolerances in the microns and so no evidence of such a claimed ancient highly advanced civilization is currently known.
Well said
They also mostly lie, it's an odd cultish behaviour - here, shown the face of statue, that isn't perfect, and elsewhere I've seen: Look they polished a perfect mirror on rock face! And show a monk standing next to his wobbly reflection. OK, so the rock is shiny, but just from this photo I can already see the wall isn't straight.
Yes, there are limits to human precision, and everything called a fake is worth being investigated, even if it only leads to debunking a claim.
The main problem is selective argument from authority - one stonemason (for example) may claim something is impossible without modern tools and they will go with that one, while ignoring the many others claiming (and often proving, by doing it themselves) that ancient tools are more than enough to complete the work. That's irks me to no end.
The term Stonemason gets thrown around online a lot.. also means different things in different countries from cmu concrete blocks & landscaping all the up way to sculpture & cathedral restoration
In many cases a stonemason is someone who works with a chisel and bolster on relatively soft stones. Such as in the repair and maintenance of ancient buildings. I do accept that such a person likely could not make a precisely machined granite vase on a lathe or lathe-like assembly. It simply has no relation to how they make their living from day to day.
@@itsnot_stupid_ifitworks I put "for example" in parenthesis after that for a reason, don't be pedantic
@@Between_Scylla_and_Kharybdis I was making a statement. Maybe don't think everybody's attacking you
That last reason was my favorite. It reminds me of people asserting that it took outer space aliens capable of interstellar travel to stack stones to make a structure that's wider at the bottom than at the top.
Don't forget that no item from ancient time actually are identical like CNC made items are today (or at least identical to a 100th of a millimeter).
When you use advanced machines to make things, it is making the blueprint and coding it into your machine that takes longest time, not making a single object (it of course depends on how advanced the artifact is and how good your CAD/CAM program is if you don't code by hand). Therefor we tend to make a lot identical things.
If each item are unique, that is clear evidence they are hand crafted.
I use CNC machines at work myself but as Dr Miano say, that is not a perfect argument, even though I understand the process better then an amateur. But just go to a store and look at similar items, there is usually a lot of things that looks just the same while ancient artifacts tend to be unique.
Take apart a car engine. You LL produce thousands of unique items. And with each item you'll be able to determine that it was machined because of symmetry and tolerances. This argument of yours makes no sense.
@@VeeSweet-ye3pq The point is - that those items can be compared with the near identical items machined to the same specifications for the other engines of that specific model.
Whereas ancient vases can not be compared to the other identical specification vases, since the vases are all unique. The result of their construction is whatever it turned out to be on that particular vase. They are not made to any precise specification which we know of. They do not match any engineering plans, and they do not match each other.~
Unlike components in an engine.
I hope that is what was meant. That's what I understood the point to be.
Actually many items of "ancient times" are precisely identical...(validation I work in and teach traditional skills)...roof styles, turnings, gears (wood and bronze), etc...Duplication and precision, even five millennia ago in some cultures were not hard to achieve at all...Modern humans have just learned to do it faster and with more impact on the ecology of the planet...
@@JayCWhiteCloud You just sent that message using a machine which relies on components manufactured to a nanometer level of precision.
Modern chips are now being produced with 5 nanometer allowing approx. 600 million transistors per square millimeter.
I think that we may well have done a little more than "just learned to do it faster".
Lol!!
@@JayCWhiteCloud Eh, you are not wrong as such, a thatched roof do look the same as another one with the same material and method.
The Mayas were even able to give buildings very advanced proportions and they doesn't even seem to had used a measurement of length in their buildings.
They used a string they folded together with pretty advanced mathematics.
So my point isn't that ancient people were stupid or anything like that, but they did not mass produced things in an industrial way.
I am not sure I would claim it wasn't hard to do though, handcrafting takes a lot of experience to master.
But we have seen cases of humanity negatively impacting the earths ecology before. El Miradors massive cutting of rain forest to make lime for their massive city changed the weather patterns around them over 2000 years ago and London's idea of throwing all garbage into the river lead to a total disaster long before the industrial revolution.
The main difference is that the scale is higher today but humans have impacted the ecology for a very long time, not always for the worse though.
But the Egyptian stone vases as we were talking about are not identical, no 2 identical have ever been found.
The claim that these things were produced by precision machines is ludicrous on its face. Precision machinery does not work in a vacuum, it requires an entire infrastructure of power supplies, manufacturing technology, material suppliers etc. etc. This kind of machinery is made of components that do not degrade over time, so why is there not a single artifact of these machines left behind? No one has ever found a single remnant of a diamond saw or a carbide end mill or drill, or a strand of copper wire etc. Besides that, if a civilization had all these high precision tools, why did they never build any structure beyond just piling one stone on top of another. The Egyptians had a thousand years of stone cutting experience behind them and probably had techniques that we do not know. As times change and technology advances, often old skills and knowledge are lost. Consider that 150 years ago, nearly every person on earth knew how to make a horseshoe, because every town had a blacksmith and every family had a horse. Today you would be lucky to find one person in 10,000 that could make a horseshoe. Likewise, women used to sit before a spinning wheel and make their own thread and then knit that into all sorts of clothing and blankets, yet now hardly anyone would even know what a spinning wheel is. So just because we do not understand how things were done 4-5000 years ago is no proof that it was done by some mysterious lost civilization or aliens.
@@AwesomeWrench Atlantis was most likely the romanticized memory of a place like the Minoan civilization on Crete that was destroyed by the eruption of Santorini and the resulting tidal wave. Peoples from around the Mediterranean would have then heard tales of this great island civilization that was swept away and as the stories were told and re-told they became embellished more and more.
If I cant make the leap in logic that dubious water erosion = magic mushroom Atlantis using airbending with their minds, then what good is geology?
So, you're saying there's a chance?
@@ccoodd26 - .^_^.
As a of years, I can tell you that because of .
Fact. But it makes $$$$$!
Sooooooooooo much anecdotal personal experience nonsense.
😂😂😂😂@@AwesomeWrench
I am 76. As a baby I sat on a little rug by mh mum while she treadled away at her sewing machine. Eventually joined by sister no 1. When I was about 5 she showed me how to overcast the seem edges. Then my sister. This saved her a lot of time. Then we were shown how to tack a dart. Using pin and thread to make a straight line she could sew along. Eventually when I was 11 I made my first complete garment. A blue gingham pinafore complete with cross over straps and ties and even a patch pocket for a handkerchief.
Of course we all learned to knit, even my brother, and cook and bake. Iron a shirt collar, ( they were still separate when I started). Etc etc. Later Dad showed us how to dig and clean and rake a veg plot. We made jam with mum, furniture with Dad. All skills handed down from parents to children.
Now I have a friend my age who panicks every time he hits the wrong button on his smart phone. No one, except trades people, currently needs any if the old skills. And many older folk need to rely on their grandchildren to deal with modern tech. Roles are reversed.
As an amateur astronomer of 30+ years, Ive built my own telescopes and ground precision optics to a surface accuracy of ⅛ wave of light and hand corrected them to a perfect parabolic curve... by rubbing two pieces of glass together with progressively smaller grit. I can tell you its virtually impossible for anyone living in a desert to figure out how to do that.
I noticed old Ben & Jimmy have been kinda quiet lately… oh wait, Ben just did an interview… with Chris Dunn. Again.
Yeah, it's almost like he went straight to his LAHT pastor for emergency support after Hancock got exposed on Rogan. I'd say Unchartedx is starting to feel the heat as many folks have now been exposed to the debunking channels that he actively blocks his audience from seeing.
He only recently uploaded the BAM documentary to his other channel and has already deleted threads that mention this channel.
"argument from authority" needs to be renamed to "argument from false authority". Cause if it was the opinion of a craftsman that was an expert in ancient techniques, then there is weight to it. From a guy that uses power tools, its irrelevant.
Validation...I've been responding to, and now… "barking at"...these obtuse individuals like C. Dunn for years...NEVER ONCE...have I gotten a response as none of them actually want to have their "bubbles popped,"...and...I'm one of those (I guess) experts in ancient techniques who know even others better than myself...There is nothing "lost" or "alien" about our collective history...just something to admire about what humans can achieve when we put our minds to it and are not trying to kill each other...Thanks for your comment...!!!
When the guy using the power tools can recreate the tooling marks in granite and the guys claiming copper tools can cut granite with precision yet can’t produce a copper tool that can do it with modern equipment then you have to doubt the narrative and accept there was some form of higher tech being used than a whole bunch of guys tapping away with primitive tools. And this is not a claim for Aliens just that humans could have reached higher levels of skill and then we lost it for some reason.
Have you ever seen the granite graveyard where all the defective granite boxes are stored. The Egyptians could obviously punch these boxes out so fast that when they made a small error they just tossed them and started again.
And when you look at the precision in symmetry between the two halves of some of those Hugh statues, within 0.002” that is the kind of thing we can only do today with CNC machines and you need lasers to measure not a stick.
There have been plenty of grooves analyzed where the tooling marks are evident and engineers are able to estimate the diameter of the saw blade , the number of teeth and the speed of the saw.
Have you read Plato?
Plato wrote of Troy, these archeologists said it was a myth then they found it.
Plato wrote of a sarcophagus in a lake under the great pyramid, archeologists said it was a myth then they found it.
Plato wrote of a tunnel network under the Geezer plateau, archeologists said it was a myth , now they are excavating the tunnels. So these archaeologist have a pretty bad track record.
@@nigelliam153 Written, it seems (?)...once more…by a commentator who has…“read a lot”...yet has zero tangible skills in historic restoration arts, vernacular ancient arts, or life skills, and certainly not in one of the applicable sciences like experimental archaeology…Having a supporting science and/or field like Ancient History, such as David, make observations is more than applicable and a “peer review” query from such sources is always welcome and needed…Thus the purpose of this channel…
If these…” nonexperts”...and…” pseudoscientists”...wish to actually be taken seriously by the mainstream of a profession then they have to subject themselves to the same rigorous examination of findings and theories. Most don’t and won’t do so…
To an amateur, a kerfing mark, by a…” guy using the power tools,”...may look authentic, however to an expert they seldom to never do…UNLESS…that power tool is employed by someone who can also make it authentically. Those folks come from two common fields now… experimental archeology…and…historic vernacular restoration artisans…The third is not to be supported or condoned, but their work is often exquisite and that is the professional forger…
“...the guys claiming copper tools can cut granite with precision…” I have done so and many forgers do use these modalities. That is why provenance and authentication of “privately held” artifacts are critical and seldom done well. If you are unaware of this, then do better research…
“...Have you ever seen the granite graveyard where all the defective granite boxes are stored…”
I’m not sure of the goal with this statement is. Yes, I carve granite and have done so with both traditional and modern hand tools. As for “defective” work, of course, inclusions, dyes, and related failures in the stone do take place if the selected stone is not screened properly.
“...The Egyptians could obviously punch these boxes out so fast that when they made a small error they just tossed them and started again…”
So fast, is a relative thing to those that do the work. Have you seen the piles of stone debris around carving studios or the mistakes made by young apprentices just learning…LMAO…That is measured in “tons”...Most of that comment is a projected assumption on your part at best, not an actual understanding of the craft or its outcomes..
“...when you look at the precision in symmetry between the two halves of some of those Hugh statues, within 0.002” that is the kind of thing we can only do today with CNC machines…”
Not even close to being a true observation or statement of fact, but perhaps you would be interested in taking a basic stone sculpting class where tools like “macchinetta di punta” (aka pointing tool) will be explained to you and their use in accuracy, reduction/expansion, duplication, and accuracy. So no, you don’t need a “laser” to do this work at all…
“...There have been plenty of grooves analyzed where the tooling marks are evident and engineers are able to estimate the diameter of the saw blade, the number of teeth, and the speed of the saw…”
Yes, and some of this is “good research” and some of it is really bad…!!...That is how a forger can get away with fake replications. Also, much of this is estimations of approach as the natural chronological weather by time and handling alone degrades the data achieved…
As for Plato’s writing, that only indicates (as we all know) there is much to learn still and to understand. That will take critical thinking and proper examination…not assumption, circular fallacy thinking, or agenda-driven theories…
The last line is the thing that comes to my mind every time I hear these ancient advanced technology theories; they allegedly mastered incredibly advanced technology, to then only use it for making a nice looking jar, or at most stacking stones very neatly.
As an experienced engineer, I can say as a matter of fact, that precision in engineering is very much dependent on the experience of the engineer or artisan doing the work. It is also highly dependent on the time taken in creation. The more time taken and the more experienced the artisan, the better the results. Much of modern work is sloppy because we depend too much on the tools to make up the difference and do it quickly. The tools make the work fast, but not precise. The belief that time-is-money is the death of art and engineering. I'd rather have some good stone masons from the Middle Kingdom than a plasma stone cutter any day.
Method-process-technique. I'm highly skilled in stone handwork but I'll gladly defer to a cnc mill, waterjet, or laser for day to day consistency. Consistency that we do not find in manufactured ancient artifacts.
@@GroberWeisenstein There's a difference between consistency and precision. Two blocks of stone can be precisely fitted together without their shape being consistent. The ancient work required fine fitting not consistency.
@@kimwelch4652modular units like block work doesn't utilize the processes I mentioned so your example is misplaced. Consistency in large volume manufacturing of *artifacts such as vases, bowls, etc. In manufacturing 'Precision' is a measure used in replication from a master original. To date, exact copies have not been recovered which does little to support precision claims of " Lost Advanced high technology"
@@GroberWeisenstein You have a very specific definition of consistency and precision. I'm not sure anybody else is being that precise with their definition. Most ancient astronaut theorists think precision has to do with how smooth and even a carving is, without regard to any master copy. However, in ancient mass production, they get pretty darn precise with their reproductions sometimes better than our machine manufacturing. That is also true with some traditional hand made objects created today. Some of the hand made Japanese earthenware pots are very precise by your definition.
@kimwelch4652 no, nowhere near in accuracy to our machines today, including machines over 100 years ago. Even basic funery products like stone vases and urns produced today far exceed anything produced as prized items in Antiquity. Precision in manufacturing also applies to terminology with a reasonable knowledge base of the fundamentals in the industry. Freehand made Japanese pots are not in line with high precision standards, which requires a measurable low tolerance copy from an original.
You can make pretty precise objects with just a file or abrasive tool by just by eye, and even better with patterns, a ruler and a square.
First year in trade school we had to make some things with just a file, a hammer head amongst other things.
It had to be perfectly square, flat, had various angles and rounded features. Teacher wouldn't let us continue before we got it right. I don't remember how long we carried on with that, maybe a couple of weeks. It could probably be better, but I still have those things, and still think they look decent. Imagine what hundreds of years of handed down knowledge and decades of experience would enable you to do, even with very basic tools.
Resuming Christopher Dunn theory: Ancient built pyramids to get power to build machinery to build the pyramids.
As a kitty-cat of five lives and counting, and I can easily judge this sofa was destroyed purely by dog teeth.
As a Cabinet Maker myself I concur with your assessment. You DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A MACHINE in order to achieve 'perfection'. It just takes time, and attention to detail, from a highly skilled craftsperson. The stone carved head you showed could absolutely been produced without computers or machinery. Just with simple tools like calipers and paper templates etc. With the required amount of time and skilled labour. In fact that's part of having perfectly crafted hand-made goods - to show off your wealth! As only you can show to everyone the amount of skill, time, knowledge and dedication you have paid for (through skilled labour) as you have commissioned this fabulous object (whatever it is).
It's generally people who don't have any hand tool skills who jump to the conclusion that 'you can only get perfection from a machine'. Poppycock.
As a figurative sculptor i am directly involved in precision when doing a potrait i need the symmetry of a face and use my wooden modelling tools to mark this off . What chris dunn and and others of his ilk deny is craftmanship.a good craftsman will make any tool work for him and with supreme precision in any age of mankind but as an earlier responder has said iphone forget it ill sculpt you one an axact replica but a working one no way
Christopher Dunn is an expert in lathes which is what archeologists claim they used to produce the precious pottery. If anyone is qualified to discuss this is Christopher Dunn the lathe expert
These guys seem to ignore the fact that humans, with practice can become insanely good at things. Humans are just amazing with limited tools. We just are.
Yes they can but they can’t replicate the precision with the tools archeologists say they used
No is am just a silly tradesman as are most of my family members. Funnily enough i take my vacations all over the South of Europe and 1 or 2 archeological museums are alway's on the list... Many of these so called perfect vases we can see small flaws even with the naked eye. And it is very clear quality differs between them. As you would expect.
My biggest problem with real history is that i don't understand how the aliens go in and out of the dome when they come down to the earth to make ancient stuff. I mean, is there a door someplace or do they just go over the ice wall or what?
Yes there are doors in the dome. The waters of heaven are above so anytime aliens go in or out it rains.
@@AveragePicker It's amazing what BIG SCIENCE hides from us
I assumed it was teleportation. Or magic. But I guess a door would work.
@@NinjaMonkeyPrime Hey, we are talking about a heavenly door, so it might as well be teleportation.
...I know we are having laugh but I actually didn't make up the door thing. It is a biblical flat earther argument.
In the same vein of assuming that the artisan had the intention to make the exact object that we've found, precisionism and modern tradesmen seem to ignore that the same level of precision can in fact be reached by hand as with modern technology if you are willing to spend enough time on it. Many of the modern tools save time more than they do something that is impossible by hand given enough time. There's also a survivorship bias; it doesn't take into account any objects that were of lower quality or failed attempts to make something else that were discarded or repurposed and thus were not preserved.
It's even worse than survivorship bias. If an artifact or structure is unimpressive or not a masterpiece (say, a settlement of mud-brick buildings, or some of the models of breweries or military troops found in tombs), they'll agree that those were made by dynastic Egyptians. But if it is impressive or a masterpiece (the Pyramids, colossal statues, fine craftsmanship in stone of any sort), they'll attribute it to the Atlanteans/aliens and say the Egyptians found and repurposed it.
They also ignore the other 99.9 percent that are not even remotely "precise"
@kevincrady2831 Yeah, I'm not usually the type of person to call this out, but the idea that these ancient civilizations were incapable of creating these things and therefore "must've had help from a more advanced people" is almost inherently racist. Since there were generally fewer people in Europe at the time the pyramids were being built and that wood was much more plentiful in Europe than in northern Africa and was therefore a better building material for them, there were simply less artifacts and structures that could be preserved. But instead of understanding that, some people just fabricated a justification for why things like the pyramids were made in North Africa and not Europe.
I seem to recall reading about prehistoric stone tools that are far more perfect than required for their intended purpose, an obsession that delights in mastery over nature.
Keep up the amazing job, Dr Miano 👏
By the logic of precisianism,most of the great statues of the renaissance could have only been made by laser.and CNC.
The 'precisionists' might have a point (maybe) if they found two artifacts that were absolutely as identical to each other as modern science can measure. However, that is a standard which is quite a bit more rigorous than measuring with ordinary tools the amazingly skilled stone artifacts that we have. They are making the mistake of assuming that a hypothetical point (extreme precision found in modern artifacts) is a relevant point (their claim that 'really good craftwork must always be industrial in origin'. Low-tech don't mean low-skill (and it often doesn't mean ;primitive' either). Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the 'precisionists' don't have the evidence.
I've actually seen plenty of videos where a metalsmith/jeweler & sculptor or stone mason was given an artifact to recreate using period appropriate tools/technology & they made an exact replica. ( Carved stone bowls & drinking vessels, carved marble statues, ornate brooches & belt buckles etc) It took more time & elbow grease, but they could do it. We have such a warped perception of time nowadays & assume ancient people had the same expectations of productivity that we know with mass production & machining. They didn't. That's why much of these artifacts & monuments were associated with the wealthy & elite or ruling classes. They were very expensive, unique & labor intensive to produce. People can be very resourceful given the right motivation. What really impresses & befuddles me is the organizational abilities & the power structures of these civilizations that facilitated the cooperative effort needed to create some of these wondrous things that still cause awe in us thousands of years later. I mean wow. Ever belong to a committe or local group trying to organize anything? It's a nightmare.
This argument is similar to the one claiming that the universe is precisely tuned to allow life to exist. It merely means that "if I were to make this artifact, I would need a very complicated machine". This statement is more about the lack of competence of the observer than the tools required for the task.
Give me a stick, some string and a pencil and i will draw you a perfect circle. Those fools will tell you i must have had precision technology. Add a rock to my list and watch me make a level to check flatness and a straight edge to check straightness and a square to check 90 deg angles.
With enough practice you would be able to draw (near)perfect circle even without a string (like people on this video: ruclips.net/video/YWxyd2odLLY/видео.html )
And anciend artisans who started to learn their craft from the very young age and were practicing it almost their entire life definitely had enough practise ;)
In so much as all humans are endowed with "pattern recognition" - it being the basis of our learning - then all humans have a capacity to create a level of "precision". How developed the talent is depends upon the individual and their experience level as via repetition a person can come to achieve a high level of precision simply by "eyeballing it" - in the military once upon a time we called it _"having a calibrated eyeball."_
Add to above aids like measuring devices and grid systems to establish "scale" and said precision can be further enhanced. As an example. In the Valley of the Kings are partially completed tombs where the walls were left half-completed. On those walls were laid out using red ochre paint = a grid system. Using this grid the artisans could then draw the intended designs to be created on the wall to proper scale.
As an example of "eyeballing it". I watched a doco about salt and our need for it. High in the Andes are some of the world's largest salt flats. The locals being poor have developed an industry around mining it and selling that. I watched an old man who had been doing his task for decades chopping out frozen salt blocks from the salt formation. Now the blocks must all be a specific size/weight lest they not be sellable and hence he wasted his time. He stood there chopping away row after row of identical blocks using nothing more than his eyeballing it and = years of experience.
Moral: now this video deals about attempting to establish origin based upon measurement which as we see is a false argument. I simply expand to the issue of "precision" in general to show whereby these people had the means to determine needed scale/precision when required = and not always using some type of tool/technology. Enjoy your day.
Ohhh, there you are, Varyolla is your name right? I'm a big fan of yours, your comments are the best ones on this channel.
You also can't precisely measure a sculpture's symmetry from an optically distorted photograph. Go easy on us stone masons, please. we have a pretty good idea what's possible from experience and precedence.
However, it is very interesting that what the ancients achieved with their artistic aesthetic sense feels machine-processed from our modern perspective. Look at that famous column and box( not the Serapeum of Saqqara ).
I was listening to miserere mei deus and the rendition was so good i had to do some research into gregorian chant. It turns out they would build the cathedrals for vocal acoustics. Any mistake reverberates and clashes so hard. It got me thinking about ancient architecture and all the silliness of these conspiracy theories. Humans built these cathedrals and all without modern tools to do so. Any mistake would cause distortions in the sounds of the chanting. I really just feel like the conspiracy theorists aren’t taking into account the amount of technical know how it takes to create something that creates a sound or a look that we may not be able to experience today. Imagine those catholic cathedrals fell into ruin and we forgot what they were for. The people discovering it would not be able to experience the acoustics in it’s prime so they would see it this weird blend of artistry and technical work that would confuse them as to the true purpose of the structure. I also think most conspiracy theorists are very dualistic in their thinking. Something must be one thing or another, it can never be a combination of both things….. dangerous way of thinking that will force you into illogical positions.
Thank you so much for your hard work. I have watched your videos 2or3times The way you show what a con artist brien forester an all that lot you have opened my eyes I bought into them for years. You’re a legend thank you. From New Zealand
There’s this huge gulf of knowledge between what modern craftspeople use to make things vs how people did so in the past and for whatever reason this alone is enough for people to just lose their minds in conspiracy.
Not really, the basic principles are the same. It's just that most people nowadays have no idea how things are made, never making anything themselves. There are quite a lot of people that still make things by hand, as a hobby, or as a business, but you will never see them in an unhinged-x video...
@@PRH123 there’s one in a million who learns the basics, everyone else just uses modern technology to cut to the finished product, barely understanding how it could have been done without their fancy modern technology. Most people can’t put themselves in the past and just try to work the problem, or won’t because it’s too much work and they’d rather be doing 100x the work in half the time/effort.
These alternate craftsman theories additionally ignore occams razor and Mr Sagan. They are the extraordinary claims, bring forth the extraordinary proof. We often have extraordinary proof for the mundane hypothesis
Great presentation Professor Miano. Thank you for sharing.
I would love to see evidence of these ancient high tech machines themselves, including the infrastructure to support them. Things like electric cables, power poles, electric generation plant of some sort, etc. Just any solid evidence would be helpful. Well since there isn't any evidence, we have to assume the obvious. These high tech machines didn't exist.
You explained it so well!!! I am going to use it next time I hear that it must of been ancient technology...
You can take a wood shaving measuring a thousands of an inch and leaving a glass smooth surface by using a handplane of Roman design. Machine planers made nowadays cannot match this finish. That, in my opinion, proves that ancient 'primitive' methods and craftmanship go together quite nicely....
I think some people want to diminish the work of ancients so they feel better about their own inability.
This! This!
I've been into all sorts of alternative history for well over two decades. And I will admit that for most of that time, I was fooled on several issues. But the one thing that I never understood how people would believe, is the ancient high technology stuff.
Ah, that's why we can't say if the barrel of a modern M1 Abrams was from 1914 or 2005 by mere measurement. At both times gunbarrels were made, so case closed.
Actually- any steel made after the A-bomb was dropped has radioactive isotopes in it. When they want super pure steel for radioactive sensitive uses- they have to remelt stuff from before WW2, interesting fact. It is getting better now though.
Demonstrably irrational is the coolest way to say BS haha
Diamonds are still cut by hand, to astonishing precission.
What a stupid assumption!
Just because you don’t know how someone crafted something doesn’t make it supernatural.
Spanish Conquistadors thought Inca stonewalls could only be the work of the devil.
If you want to make a straight line, just look down at it lengthways, and then keep on sanding etc. until it is as perfect as you like.
You know it wasn't a human civilisation, it was the Annunaki reptiles, they are not human, but they are so civilised they created perfect stone bowls & plates for us to use. Aren't they so sweet, advanced, civilized & caring?
Thanks again, Doc.
"That spittoon? Got it from an Atlantean at a swapmeet u_u"
Used amazing high tech which we cannot replicate today to make endless things out of stone.
The real mystery is how they developed the tech while skipping over a couple million years of stone-working technology development without the high tech part like everyone else.
great debunking and information to improve investigative skills.
What's the latest theory on The Great Pyramid of Giza? I was just watching a vid on floating the blocks up sealed shafts filled with water. That seemed out there a bit but didn't know if this was an accepted theory or something on the fringe.
🤣 The pyramids of Giza were built atop of the highest points on the plateau. The base of the Great Pyramid alone is well above the lowest point of the plateau where the harbor area once was - ~500 meters away = and water does not typically go uphill absent some assistance such as pumps.
Moral: yes your vid = pure fantastical twaddle......... The nature of the topography + the lack of evidence to support what you say - the area has been excavated to the bedrock and there are no channels for water or anything else connecting the pyramid sites to where the water once was + and finally things like the limestone quarries which sat *In between* the harbor area and the pyramid sites make such claims nonsensical on their face.
p.s. - as noted they did have a harbor and they did transport some of the stone to this point = after which it was unloaded from the barges and hauled overland to the pyramids.
The harbor area was southwest of the Great Pyramid and the main quarry was due south a few hundred meters away. The topography of the plateau meant the only area suitable for the ramps would be the western side where there is now the western cemetery + the south side which would be the closest to the harbor and quarry.
So creating some vast water channel setup would obstruct the main effort as 90% of the stone came from the quarry on the south side.
@@varyolla435 Thanks. As I mentioned I wasn't quite buying into the floating rocks thing anyway. Just curious as to the most accepted theory's on how it was built. I assume ramps of ever increasing heigth but there are several other ideas I'm sure.
@@Mikheno That's fine. I did not say you believed the video. I simply expounded upon reasons why such a claim would be implausible. As to ramps here is some additional information.
1 - at Giza in the Western Cemetery adjacent the Great Pyramid are tombs dating to the 4th Dynasty period. Among those are partially completed tombs which have small earthen ramps still attached to them.
2 - those ramps are made using a filler mixture of: sand/stone chips - quarry debris/and tafla - a clay the Egyptians mined in conjunction with a simple retaining wall.
3 - near the worker village at Giza beyond the Wall of the Crows is a large area of = talfa mining.
4 - when Egyptologists years ago excavated the limestone quarries at Giza they found dumped within them massive amounts of......... = ramp filler material.
Moral: so we know they used external ramps to build the pyramids because we have historical accounts which tell us this + we see smaller versions of earthen-fill ramps at Giza in the adjacent cemeteries + we see massive amounts of ramp filler material having been dumped into the limestone quarry pits + we see evidence of their mining tafla near the worker village area of Giza.
As an aside. The Egyptians also later frequently employed mud brick ramps for construction. At Karnak is the remains of such a mud brick ramp which was used to construct a hypostyle temple there. In the Tomb of Rekhmire is a depiction of a hypostyle temple being built using...... = a mud brick ramp.
Hypostyle temples contain sandstone lintels at their tops. The largest ones can run ~50+ tons in weight. So clearly a mud brick ramp was capable of sustaining such weights to raise them upwards of 70 feet in the air. Remember that knowledge is power and in this subject = there is usually more information out there than many assume. Enjoy your day.
When I recently learned of your academic background and credentials I thought for sure some of these individuals would start to engage with you by now in these videos. Your presentation is very welcoming, yet protective of "good science" and accepting reality where it presents itself. I've been dealing with this for some time and C. Dunn has never responded, nor the others. Why...!!!???...is it that none of these people will take a professional in the field of experimental archeology, or someone like myself with over 4 decades of applied skills with them on a trip to explain things to them, or take classes for themselves to LEARN how this was all done. Even in this fine video’s beginning, I could not help but see a..." pointing machine" (La Machinetta di punta)...in front of the Egyptian bust. Precision has never been an issue and "Sculpting 101" would teach Mr. Dunn this if he just took a class...LMAO!!!
Is any face symmetrical? Are these sculptures exact likeness?
Symmetry was the style of egyptian art for centuries. Ironically the much much more difficult to create anatomically correct statues from later times into Greek and Roman works are never questioned by the "precisionist" crowd
The artist is always the one that should be created with how good the work is. Just because they do not know how they did it proves only and argument from ignorance. I know a good sculpture that uses stone and coper tools to make fine sculptures. His work sells at high cost. Art is a skill and a force all on its own. Tools are only as good has the hands that use them. Egypt had a long tradition in the arts. That was what made them great.
He is talking about me @1:04 "I am a fill in the blank" I am a PhD in blank, blanking out on fridays or saturdays and waking up on sunday 😂
I direct you to people that actually work with their hands and minds. Mike Haduck Masonry and his videos on ancient masonry and Wally Wallington and his ability to move massive concrete slabs by himself using balance points. They both amaze me and are worth watching.
Can you make a video about the origin of Brahmi script?
I remember seeing my father at work.... A true master of his craft.
Literally every piece of paperwork as is possible to achieve for his craft in the Dutch system and the experience and results too back all that up. You would be hard pressed finding a bit of furniture upholstery he can't do as close to perfection as humanly possible.
My brother before his body gave up was a master bricklayer mainly restauration work on monuments Probably because he knows not wtf is up ?
My sister is a master at her particular craft as are several uncle's and a nephew of mine i am a fairly reasonable welder myself.
To put it bluntly. The claims these
shitstains make are simply insulting to actual master craftspeople or even half way decent trades people allover the world and troughout time.
Don't ffing tell us what we can or can not achieve while the results are right there to see !!!
See what people like my dad and brother can do with simple tools and shut the heck up.
Please excuse my language i don't take such BS lightly.
Well said. These claims are insulting to craftsman. It's also insulting to the culture and history of entire civilizations.
You dad and brother can not reproduced the status or pottery with the tools archeologists say they used. No one has and they never will
@@NinjaMonkeyPrimewhy is it insulting to the culture?
@@Bingobanana4789 Why is it insulting to the culture to suggest that the achievements and art of the people were actually just stolen from aliens or white people with power tools from Atlantis? Most people are insulted when you suggest something obviously from their culture wasn't really theirs without anything to support the accusation beyond incredulity, ignorance, and arrogance.
@@Bingobanana4789 So you're claiming that a craftsman cannot recreate the artifacts, even though amateurs have done exactly that? And you base this on zero evidence of anyone ever trying and failing? Why not say the same thing about the Sistine Chapel or the statue of David or the Cologne Cathedral? No one has ever tried to recreate them so using your logic it must be invisible aliens and power tools. Maybe Michaelangelo never existed.
If it is done by an advanced civ wherws the makers" marks in unknown script?
It never ceases to amaze me how modern people think the ancients were inept fools that could barely function. If you do any reading from original sources such as plays or histories or even the Bible it is very clear that people were capable and didn’t need aliens or flying saucers or “help” from time travelers. Of all you have to do from sun up to sun down is work on your craft, you’ll get good very fast, unlike modern folks who spend all their time with distractions.
I think you badly mischaracterize the people you critique, here. If anything, the people making these claims think the ancients were equally if not more advanced than the present day, and none of them ever mention help from aliens or time travelers. If you're going to make a critique, at least make sure it is an accurate depiction of what the other side thinks.
@@spiritof6663 “The other side” being you, and since you don’t believe those things my assertions are false.
@@michaelsilveradventure5712 I never said or implied that I'm part of "the other side". That's just you making blind assumptions.
@@spiritof6663There are absolutely people who think that aliens are responsible for it, and they often run in the same circles as the people who think it was some sort of lost technology. And typically the proponents of lost technology aren't saying the ancient egyptians were advanced, they mostly attribute these works to a seperate, even older civilization that we have no evidence of.
Good explanation ❤❤
Well done Prof Miano, these snake oil salesmen need calling out.
Anyone who is arguing for precisionism has no appreciation or understanding of artistry. That alone destroys the premise, but your other points are good too!
Thank you.
What interessts me more about this topic is how many copper chisels they would have used up, and how much wood would have been necessary to melt(soften) and reforge the metal. Do we have numbers on that? Do we know which percentage of stones used for ancient monuments could have been hammered into shape with a pounding stone, and which was in need of more exact tools? Since other fuels which could be used for cooking etc. are not suitable, and import was expensive (nor did they have the knowledge to utilize other fuels), could it be that ancient egypt had forests which were used for their monuments, just like parts of the dalmatian coast were stripped bare?
Experimental archeologists have demonstrated that flint chisels could have performed a lot of the work in both granite and limestone...
Egyptians didn't have much local wood that was suitable for construction - barring some nearby species of acacia, most of what they had were shrubs. However, those shrubs (tamarixes and smaller acacia woods) were still perfectly suitable for making charcoal, and they were more abundant in Egypt then than now. Since copper is pretty soft and has a comparatively low melting point compared to most smithed metals (AFAIK only lead and tin have lower melting points), copper tools apparently weren't _forged_ so much as melted, cast, and cold-hammered.
So Egypt _did_ have forests, after a fashion...but most of the wood for their big projects came from the Fertile Crescent.
You just resharpen a copper chisel. No need to go back to the forge. In places that still work with soft metal chisels they just have several and hand the dull one off to an assistant who sharpens it while another is being used.
@@AveragePicker Yes but at one point they get too small, they break or thin out, like normal tools, just quicker. They also used copper drills which would get worn out even faster, also saws etc.
@@ABW941 Copper doesn't get worn out all that quickly. It's soft enough to deform instead of chip, it's extremely corrosion-resistant and very ductile (meaning it's hard to outright _break_ ), and it's far easier to resharpen copper tools with a hammer than a file.
Also, while it's not as abundant as iron, copper's basically everywhere.
The problem is our mindset, we always underestimated the ancient civilisations. The historians depict the ancient people as saveges. The working class in the past and in present was and is stratified group encompasses highly skilled engineers and masons and down to low skilled workers. We Don, t want to believe the ancient accomplishments are done by human some say they are done by aliens just to stick to idea of superiority of modern human.
Precisely!
I kept skipping this video because the thumbnail doesn't have your normal border on it.
Re-upload from a bigger video
I would not dismiss precisionism outright. It is possible that different periods of history have a typical level of precision in their highest quality objects. But this would need to be demonstrated scientifically before the technique could be used to evaluate any artifact. At the very least, we would need to determine what is the best precision attained using traditional tools.
Three minutes of rather SILENCE
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. That's true, but do you ignore the distinctive bullet penetration damage marks on the skull? ( Sorry for the bad analogy. Many thanks. )
Yes - very bad........ Also = we see the guns - irrespective of who pulled the trigger. Hence no matter what follows = we have physical evidence - as opposed to the "assumed evidence" like LAHT = from which to posit something from.
Moral: *EVIDENCE* makes supposition plausible or not = not assumptions of validity. LAHT narratives are invariably ones premised upon the assumption of something supposedly being there rather than something which is actually there.
As such it as noted countless times by myself and others represents stereotypical arguing from ignorance. LAHT takes evidence which was evaluated by the experts who concluded it represents "X" = and they try to claim it instead represents "Y" - except they do so simply because "they believe......" rather than having compelling evidence to show otherwise. That is neither science nor a compelling argument = merely "conjecture".
Thank you man you are helping to try an keep things honest
Totally agree, someone needs to put order on all of this mess, or else the bases of the pyramid will collapse.
Maybe something that is lost to those that seek an Atlantean origin to ancient artefacts and craft is Pride. Whether constructing a pyramid or Stonehenge, those involved were highly motivated by, not by fear of a slave driver's whip, rather the accomplishment of the task. Feasts put on by Melanesian Islanders provide a great example, photos from the 1920/30s show walls of roasted pigs, stacked like bricks, 40-50ft in length, higher than a grown adult. The community was motivated to display such excess, to demonstrate that tribe's solidarity and prowess, and earn respect from rivals.
I think this aspect is lost to some Western minds.
If you get 2 reasonably flat stones and rub them together, their surfaces become more precisely flat. That has been known for thousands of years. Those Greek marble statues are beautifully carved, hundreds of years BC. Why are they not speculated upon?
"Why are they not speculated upon?"
That because they weren't brown people. Only white people could make such things. Except in the 19th and much of the 20th century "white" meant of Anglo-Saxon decent, even though when the Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans were building grand strictures and developing the philosophies that western culture became based on the Germanic people the Angles and Saxons descend from weren't (or they didn't make anything that survived). Don't think about it too much, the stupidity will give you an aneurysm.
@@clwho4652 > "Except in the 19th and much of the 20th"
False. Since it was first introduced (18th cent) the term "Caucasian" has always meant exactly what it means today. See the 18th cent ethnic maps (Blumenbach). From its beginning, until late 19the cent, US citizenship would be given to any "free white person" and that included all Europeans (which is why they came).
>"Don't think about it too much"
Nothing to "think about". What you say is false.
@@contrarian8870 Italian, Greeks, Eastern European, Irish, and other non-north-eastern Europeans immigrants to the US were persecuted and not considered "real white people." The idea of "whiteness" has changed greatly over more than two hundred years. This has been well documented.
Forbes - The Evolution Of Whiteness In The United States,
Andscape - White immigrants weren’t always considered white - and acceptable
Imprecision is a result of lack of skill. Precision is a result of experience.
It may also be a result of haste (that's why precise items made before invention of mashinery cost _way_ more than imprecise) 😉
well at least its a pseudoscience that is falsifiable, for a change -- all you'd need is a pre-specified design with sufficiently tight tolerances, and someone skilled enough to achieve it with tools consistent with what science thinks artisans had in a particular period, and the premise is falsified. Doesn't quite account for imperfections that they attribute to intent anyhow admittedly, but that'd only make the falsification stronger if its nevertheless doable.
So can you show any examples of carving perfectly parallel cuts in granite 3mm wide 60mm deep with perfect 90 degree angles at the bottom using copper tools showing it being done?
There are plenty of people who have identified tooling marks in granite in places like Egypt, most notably Petrie who analyzed cut marks in a core and theorized a machine that could cut it describing a hydraulic drill years before they were invented.
*So can you show any examples of carving perfectly parallel cuts in granite 3mm wide 60mm deep with perfect 90 degree angles at the bottom using copper tools showing it being done?*
No, and neither can anyone show any example of one of these from ancient Egypt.
You can see something close, though, in this video: ruclips.net/video/2SujxAA_7iA/видео.html around the 48 minute mark.
*There are plenty of people who have identified tooling marks in granite in places like Egypt, most notably Petrie who analyzed cut marks in a core and theorized a machine that could cut it describing a hydraulic drill years before they were invented.*
Petrie firmly believed the dynastic Egyptians made them. Do you accept that too?
Finally they ignore the fictional evidence of Aliens! Wait, I didn't say 'fictional'... (comment for al gore's rhythm)
Pause at 20 seconds, dunns pic, the ears are off the nose is not centered, the beard is off, this is not precision...don't get me wrong its a great statue the Egyptians were amazing, its sad these channels steal the accomplishments, lost civilization people are blind good work david, best history channel out there keep it up
Absolutely Pareidolia and confirmation bias can result in what you alluded to. The human brain is hardwired to recognize "patterns" + to "fill in the blanks" when visually perceiving a thing.
Look at the Giza pyramids from a distance and their sides appear as "sharp" = that is your brain filling in the blanks. Look at them close up however and all their faults quickly become apparent. Hence when we look at something is can be perceived as "precise" unless as you noted we apply closer examination to reveal what are really faults. People sometimes sadly see "what they want to see" as opposed to what might actually be there.
Yesser, some people are real tools.
Are you saying that a master artisan made that statue, or multiple masters made it, seems to me, the face was made by a single master, maybe chosen for the job, which would indicate prior work. Were there any master artisans written down, they have scribes and architects, but I can't find any names for stone artisans, seems the statues were just as amazing and importin as the pyramids the architects built and words the scribes wrote.
On a side note, I've been looking through your videos, did some key searches, unable to find anything on the Earth tilt and micro-nova coming in 20 to 25 years from now, I heard a NASA lady talking about it the other day, only the tilt, she was trying to calm people down, it was during the big aurora show we had a few weeks back, after saying what she said, she ended with saying she wasn't sure, but what has going on today has happen before without a tilt. She never touched on the micro nova, even though the pass 20-30 years, nova events seems to be getting closer and closer to us. You have any theories on this subject thats been going RUclips the last few years? They are calling it the New Reset, one guy is saying that the AI sky is going to fail, allowing us to see our masters, ha ha ha, you got to help me out, I'm already blocked on all these channels, they don't like my humor, ha ha ha
As an older experienced person I think that is up to you to save anthropology on RUclips.
I 2nd this.
Dude's a historian, and he's not even debunking the fact that some measurements CAN help you determine who made an object, and how. He's merely showing that Dunn isn't doing it right.
Since archeology is saved all the time, in journals and in climate controlled storage, people can compare new finds against known artifacts, and that can help identify who made the artifacts you found, and help to figure out who was associated with the site where you found the artifacts. But Dunn seems to be looking for measurements that support his preconceived ideas. I've seen that pattern with con artists, so, when I see people relate to the world that way, I wonder about them. It's the reason con artists also tend to be really gullible. With most con artists - they were their own first victim.
TBC, I'm not calling every alternative history advocate a con artist - many don't seem to be, and are open minded, at least publicly. But some of the most famous ones, and their bootstrappers, oh boy. IDK about Dunn, but I doubt the ancient Egyptians had laser cutters. Was he the guy who made the miniature scale model of the Puma Punku blocks? If so, I found his modeling work impressive, but his conclusions about the construction tools were entirely speculative. I think it would be cool if, instead of lincoln logs or a barrel full of monkeys, kids got a box full of h-blocks, and other modeled Puma Punku pieces, to play with.
@GizzyDillespee Antropology is the study of human society, culture and its origins.
The idea spread on RUclips, is that a unknown culture is the origin of civilisation as we know it.
There are videos on here that are edited in such a way, as if Hancock is the expert, telling you about the failure of archaeology, the philosophy of science, the meaning of life.
People listen because he is an intelligent, travelled, experienced person. These people are not reading journals.
You cannot fight that with kids.
you cannot do nothing without a tool that works
Yes, a piece of wood cannot chip or grind stone very well.
Fallacy- a mistaken belief, especially one based on unsound argument.
The influence of the precisionism cult is depressing.
Gary Potter 😅
So true, I can know, 'cause I'm an engineer.
No your not
@@Bingobanana4789 you're
@@harrykouwen1426 it still doesn’t make you an engineer
@@Bingobanana4789 we all know and worship you fror being the number one engineer, praise be
Lighter colored jackets and shirts are better for you. Thanks.
Isn't appealing to a peer-reviewed study also an appeal to authority?
No.
Why would you think that?
@@WorldofAntiquityplease explain why
Appeal to authority rests upon = *ASSUMPTION* of validity based solely upon a perceived "authority".
Consider the former US President who has been demonstrated time and again to perpetuate bald-faced lies and his gullible minions accept that as purported truth solely because he was once a President = appeal to authority. (this is also an example of demagoguery by the way)
Consider say a "televangelist" who makes claims about the nature of Earth citing the Bible as their source. Because they are perceived as "a minister" then their believers as above = *ASSUME* them to supposedly be correct based upon their "title" - assuming based upon a perceived authority.
Moral: academia which adheres to evidence subject to peer-review is not appeal to authority because what follows = is a result of the evidence and consensus validation.
Ergo you can remove "the academic" if you wish = and the evidence and the consensus behind it still exists leading you to the same results. You can remove their entire country if you wish because of course these academic fields are actually global and you would still see the majority of other experts coming to the same conclusions based upon the evidence. Your "authority" here therefore is not the individual = it is the evidence........ The individuals' position simply lends to understanding that evidence.
Conversely as LAHT proponents lack similar backgrounds they can certainly quibble over the evidence = but they lack any plausibility in doing so as their background is not conducive to the outcomes they posit as purportedly plausible. Ergo adhering to LAHT narratives = *IS* your appealing to authority......... - not the other way around.
@@Bingobanana4789 Because it doesn't matter who wrote the study. It matters what is in the study.
So this argument for perfect diorite and granite vases is, “the makers were really good”
Seems legit! Musta been done with sand and copper then🤷🏼
Science!
So there is a belief in perfect vases. Must have been computer guided. Ignorance.
So you're saying invisible power tools makes more sense?
@@Eyes_Open agree that’s dumb too. Perhaps the answer is; we have no clue how they did this 🤷🏼
@@NinjaMonkeyPrime nope. The “we have no idea” answer makes the most sense.
@@Nobnoxious So all the artists that created the artifacts we see today before power tools should be ignored because you think something looks really hard to accomplish? Incredulity is a logical fallacy.