"How Christians Should Respond to Gay People" Is Awful Advice
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- Опубликовано: 28 окт 2024
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Frank Turek was asked how Christians should respond to gay family members, and I took issue with his answer. Apparently, he thinks LGBT people can become straight, and if they can't, they should be celibate. He thinks Christians should "help" family members to do this. Now, not only does the relevant scientific literature show that gay people can't change sexual orientations, but that LGBT people are best off when their families and friends support them. I think this shows how little many Christian apologists actually care about science when it becomes problematic for them.
It turns out that his advice on LGBT issues is even worse than his "gotcha" questions for atheists.
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Turek's video: • How do we respond to f...
Family acceptance is positively associated with well-being and negatively associated with mental distress. LGB contact is also associated with well being
faculty.weber....
The APA acknowledges that being gay is unlikely a choice and that it does not change
Conversion has not been shown effective and homosexuality has not been shown to be a disorder or harmful
www.americanba...
Well sourced wiki article on conversion efforts being ineffective and harmful
en.m.wikipedia...
APA FAQ page on sexual orientation
www.apa.org/to...
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Christian and non-Christian viewers alike, how do YOU think Christians should act towards LGBT people? Hoping to fill the comment section with better advice than Turek's.
Even if they dont like lgbt people they should treat them like human beings and with respect
I'd personally like if they left me alone altogether, but yeah, we're humans. Respect us at the very least.
More advice for LGBT, but the GMSkeptics server welcomes gender and sexual diversity. You're welcome to join :)
Like you would any other person. With dignity and respect.
I like the spirit of Miss Manner’s answer when she was asked what one says when introduced to a gay couple: “How do you do?” Basically, I think you treat people like people. Unless proven otherwise, people are deserving of respect and politeness under almost every circumstance.
I grew up in an ultra-fundamentalist Pentecostal church. I spent 21 years praying, fasting, and getting counseling trying to make myself straight. It didn't work, but it did make me a complete wreck.
I abandoned religion, came out to my family, and started a new life away from them (all in the same 24 hours) at the age of 32. I'm 45 now, and I have never been happier and healthier.
What Frank Turek is pushing simply doesn't work.
@Pk Amponn Well I see you've drunk the kool aid.
@Pk Amponn It makes me so mad when I hear people say that being gay is a choice. You don't have any idea of how wrong you are. If I could choose not to be gay I wouldn't think twice. I think about killing myself almost everyday because I can't live with this feeling of inadequacy and disapproval, the feeling that I am wrong, an abomination, the fear of losing everyone I love if I ever come out. I want to die when I hear my father (a fundamentalist Christian) talk so harshly about gay people when in fact he's talking about me. But according to you, yeah, I just chose to live this miserable life.
@Pk Amponn "[twins] prove that it's a choice.."
No it fucking doesn't. Where is the logic in that? You have no idea how genes and genetic expression work..
@@wallp1191 dude good luck with family. Hope it goes well but if it doesn't, well, know that there are plenty of non bigots in the world that would accept you for who you are. Just go find them, mive if you can, join online communities etc
@Pk Amponn _"When you were a christian, did you know God?"_ Please, are you going to make a _no true Scotsman_ fallacy here? I hope you realize how unfalsifiable your position is. Imagine if I look at an ex-atheist who converted to Christianity, and tell him he was "never a true atheist because an atheist who knows science and logic would never be deceived by religion". How could you possibly prove me wrong? Besides, I hear Christians saying the exact same things, "were you really a Christian", "did you really accept Christ", "did you really know God", even though those Christians constantly disagree with each other on controversial positions, such as creationism, GRSM rights, the nature of heaven/hell, etc. So, how do you *prove* which one of them is a true Christian? By the way, simply saying that they "secretly reject Christ", or something along those lines doesn't justify anything. I could tell you that you secretly reject "Allah, but, deep in your heart, you know the Q'ran is the true word of God". The whole, "no true Christian" argument is unnecessarily patronizing and impossible to prove right/wrong. Please stop using it.
_"If homosexuality was natural"_ It is. Homosexuality appears in numerous non-human animals. Animals who are almost, if not completely, controlled by their own instincts, including basic reproductive instincts. If homosexuality was truly nothing but a choice, then there's no reason for there to be gay penguins, for example. Since there are gay penguins, their homosexuality must be instinctive. Instincts are carried by genes. The conclusion is obvious, but maybe you believe there to be a strong biological separation between humans and other animals.
_"then why does the HGP and twin studies document one twin becoming straight, while the other becomes a sodomite/lesbian? That proves there's no natural cause of same sex attraction and thus it's a choice."_ I could just as easily show you genetically identical twins who have different heights. Does that mean that stature is entirely a choice? Just because something isn't genetic doesn't mean you have full control over it. According to a study by Ray Blanchard and Philip Klassen, the odds of a boy being gay increases by 30% with every younger brother that is born. The paper attributes this to the presence of an antigen in the mother's body. I won't go into detail here, but it clearly shows that there are biological influences on human sexual orientation. If you think it's a choice, then please, do a quick experiment: chose to be gay. Just for a moment. Chose to be sexually attracted to a person of your gender, and see how well that goes for you.
_"Which explains why many have become ex-gays and they now love and serve the Lord."_ I'm sure you understand that there are bisexual people out there as well, right? Also, the original commenter is also expressing a personal anecdote of his. May I ask why you're picking and choosing which personal anecdotes to listen to? Also, by "now they love and serve the lord" are you implying that homosexuals cannot love a god? It's starting to sound like you're antagonizing them.
_"The anus is part of the digestive system, not the reproductive system."_ And you're supposed to sit on a chair, not stand on it, not plank on it, not crawl underneath it, not dismantle it to throw it away, yet none of these actions are immoral. Are people who shave-off their eyebrows immoral, because "eyebrows are supposed to be there"? Besides, even if anal sex ceased to occur, same-sex relationships wouldn't be at all influenced. They would continue to occur. The participants would simply find other ways of pleasing each other.
_"Perversion of this fact has lead to many horrible conditions like prolapsed rectum, the spread of syphilis and 61% of new HIV infections which are due to sodomites."_ Sex, in general, has its risks. What is your point? Different sexual acts, different protection, and different hygienic conditions will always influence the risks of disease spreading. I'm no expert on this, so I hope someone in this reply section might have done more research on this, however, I can tell you this: in first world countries, all of those conditions have treatments, and some of them have good prevention mechanisms. They're not a great concern. Once again, it really sounds like you're trying to antagonize homosexuals.
What does the resurrection of Christ have to do with this? Even if it did happen, it doesn't validate any of the biblical verses attributed to him.
"If a man lies with another man, he is to be stoned." -Leviticus 20:13
When Canada legalised same-sex marriage, they also legalised marijuana, thus allowing you to be stoned while involved in gay sex, making Canada the first country to correctly interpret this verse.
Brilliant!
You made my day, sir. Hats off to you.
God looks upon the Basednadians with favor.
Funny because I thought the Christians don't go by the old testament
@@four-x-trading5606 Why would you think that?
"Do not misunderstand why I have come. I come not to abolish the law of Moses, but instead to enforce it." -Matthew 5:17
"If being gay is a choice, when did you choose to be straight?"
facts not dogma If you are gay or know someone who is, this is important information! Sexual orientation is determined in the womb during fetus development. Various hormones are introduced at specific times to accomplish this .The fetus plays no part in this process. A person is, therefore, born with a predetermined attraction. It is, therefore, not a choice & consequently not a sin & not immoral. It is a natural expression of our species & found commonplace in nature. Intelligent research in this area clearly explains this process. If you are truly interested in truth, based on knowledge, the book Gay, Straight & the Reason Why by Dr. Simon Levay shows this with numerous research articles. If you want to understand the truth & have respect for yourself & others, that you are entitled to, this book will help. It also has, unlike the bible written over 2000 years ago by men that had no understanding of science, an extensive bibliography. I strongly recommend the book. The public must be exposed to facts & knowledge. It is an obligation for those who know the truth & must defend it. Don’t let the religious pull you down to their level of ignorance. Peace
Mine was a rhetorical comment to make people stop and think. It contains implicitly within its wording that sexual orientation is not a choice.
@@dan69052 yes!! thank you omg.
@@LittleRainGames sounds like a plot for hentai. Ahahahaha.
👏
I've been with my boyfriend (Now husband) since 1972, in all that time I've watched my "straight" friends marry, divorce, marry again, and divorce again, they ask us, "How do you two stay so happy together", and we reply, "Because we love each other deeply", they can't seem to get it through their heads that a relationship could last almost 50 years... Thank Zeus we weren't raised Christians.
Bravo! You guys are truly blessed.
I hope I can have a relationship like yours with my boyfriend^^ our one year anniversary is today :)
@@animatedintrovert6256 .. Happy Anniversary.
@@davidpower7874 This whole thread is so wholesome.
So happy for you 2!!! Hope you get all the love you deserve and more! ❤
"How should Christians treat gays?"
Idk man maybe with respect and like normal humens?
Talking about David Riverdale, as well as this guy from this video here, who GMS responds here to:
I wonder if we shouldnt use the Report-System that RUclips offers,
to get those 2 removed.
I mean, it all comes down to if our disagreement with him is about 'taste' and 'opinion' or about 'objective harmful content and such' - as knowing this difference,
as i always preach, makes the
differnece (!) between
Cancel-Culture and its Opposite.
Over time, i got a lot removed, from p0rn to racism - and of course our beloved lil friends, the Spam-Bots.
I often report, trying to be the opposite of c-culture - and you?
What do you think we should do now? Nothing or something?
Not just the humens but the huwomens and the huchildren too
@@loturzelrestaurant The fact that this is even a question should indicate how they want to treat gay people.
@@shroomer8294 Indeed.
@Jedimaster420 That isn’t what the most important to the conversation imo. The problem is between those who believe in subjective and those who believe in objective morality.
Alternate question: how do we gays interact with relatives who have chosen a straight lifestyle
depends entirely on your relationship with them. If you are financially dependant on one of them and you think they may not approve of homosexuality it may be best to keep quiet about it for now. Otherwise, see if you can gauge their opinions about it by talking about things in the news. Sadly some people are more accepting than others.
@@goodday512 I took the question to be a mockery by changing up the wording to help others 'feel' what it'd like to be in the other place, but great advice! Thanks!
Well, you can always encourage them to hate the straightness inside of them until they feel completely shit constantly, pushing them right to the edge and then say that you're doing it to try and help them
XD I laugh bc I've cried too much!
Any way you see fit! But make your choices carefully.
"You can ask anyone that's been tortured into thinking they're straight" is pretty much how that first part should go
Catnerd David Yup
Come on you need to be fair they dont distinguish bi and pan people so some of them are bi people who are fine in opposite sex relationahips
@Kathy Kat agreed. My comment was supposed to be partly sarcastic and partly exasperated. Im demi so my dating pool is already limited and limiting it to one sex was a pain in the ass.
truth shall set you free If you are gay or know someone who is, this is important information! Sexual orientation is determined in the womb during fetus development. Various hormones are introduced at specific times to accomplish this .The fetus plays no part in this process. A person is, therefore, born with a predetermined attraction. It is, therefore, not a choice & consequently not a sin & not immoral. It is a natural expression of our species & found commonplace in nature. Intelligent research in this area clearly explains this process. If you are truly interested in truth, based on knowledge, the book Gay, Straight & the Reason Why by Dr. Simon Levay shows this with numerous research articles. If you want to understand the truth & have respect for yourself & others, that you are entitled to, this book will help. It also has, unlike the bible written over 2000 years ago by men that had no understanding of science, an extensive bibliography. I strongly recommend the book. The public must be exposed to facts & knowledge. It is an obligation for those who know the truth & must defend it. Don’t let the religious pull you down to their level of ignorance. Peace
It’s always nice to see someone straight sticking up for gay people. Grew up religious and my family threw me out when they found out I was gay
Oh no. Im sorry:(
You okay?
@@everthon2457 yes, it was a long time ago now. I was 17 at the time and I’m 29 now. I’ve had to see therapists and psychiatrists because before they tossed me they abused me for about 6 months. My parents were never abusive before that but after I came out they were different people to me.
@@tartarus1478 rough to hear buddy. Well, nice to see you are far from all that awfull stuff at least. There are supportive people on the world, you aint by yourself, even if it seems ya know
No offense but why did they give birth in the first place. (this is sarcasm sorry not being homophobic)
I wonder what he'd say if I used the reverse logic: "People who have left the heterosexual lifestyle are much more fulfilled outside of heterosexuality than we were when we lived that lifestyle."
I mean, that's my experience, so it must be valid lmao
Except god is not objective. Note how in the story of Sodom and Gamorra, he nukes the city for the attempted rape of his angels, but was fine with Lot offering his daughters to be raped and even rewarded Lot. And notice how Lot's daughters were not punished for getting him drunk and raping him. That, in and of itself, shows that god's morality within the canon is subject to whim and not any objective rules.
And even then, unless the morality God created to govern us existed outside of himself before he was even there (which would show that he isn't the governing authority/omnipotent), then it's still His subjective morality.
The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah wasnt homosexuality. It was mistreatment of the traveller/immigrant/foreigner. Levitically, the only *direct* condemnation of homosexuality in the *whole* bible is the verse before it condemns all forms of incest. So the argument that Sodom's destruction was for sexual malfeasance falls flat. Therefore the tipping point that resulted in Sodom's destruction, and in fact explicitly highlighted in the text, was their mistreatment of foreigners, gross violation of the laws of hospitality.
@@saradanhoff6539 So it's ok to rape people but if you are mean to outsiders your city should be nuked? WTF
@Pk Amponn STDs are called STDs for a reason: they're transmitted through SEX. Heterosexuals have sex, too, not just homosexuals.
"the guys sources material was compiled almost 2000 years ago , what do you expect" - religion in a nutshell
" ALMOST 2000 years ago" because the Bible was written after Jesus's time.
@@cassif19 being euphemistic that Jesus really existed.
@@cassif19 What about the Old Testament
The Goat-Herder's Guide to the Galaxy
@Daniel Paulson
Like the one about shellfish.
When he started talking I was like oh boy oh boy it is going to be so rough to watch and they you added the vine and I almost died
Where do you come from? Slovakia or Czech republic? Nice to see someone from that part of the world here.
I scrolled through the comments just to find someone who had the same thought as me and this comment needs to be higher because of that.
Honestly, and no offense, but that intro vine kinda... Grossed me a bit?
@@CreamFreshCream Slovakia 😁
xD
I remember when I came out to my dad as bi, he said something along the lines of "I have a friend whose daughter had that, and after a while she just returned back to normal" I've never felt less supported.
I'm sorry about that. You have support from a random internet stranger. Sending love your way. Stay strong.
@@kaitlyn3168 thanks! It means a lot
@@brunoalejandroandrades354 Hey Bruno, you have my empathy. Throwing the word "normal" around in the heterosexual context is just blatantly incorrect. Nature is incredibly diverse. Diversity is normal. Being gay is just as normal as being bi, pan or straight. You are not broken. You are good as you are, even if your parents don't think so. They will never know you the way you know yourself. Stay strong, friend ~
@@Trashgriffin Thank you so much. It took me a while to realize it but at the end I managed to love myself
I'm assuming that the "normal" they're talking about is just her finding a man she enjoys first before she found a woman she enjoys, which obviously proves she's not at all attracted to women /s
"How are we supposed to interact with family members who have chosen a gay lifestyle?"
Easy question, you don't treat them any different than any other family member. Next question.
'' Chosen'' please Turek '😭
"I don't understand the question and I won't respond to it."
“How are we supposed to interact with family members that have imaginary friends?” is the real question.
@@SailingSeignior that's right
My answer would be: which genitals I like to have in my mouth is not a lifestyle..
I’d rather be cut off than having to listening to “truth”.
My sympathy to all of you who’ve been through this.
I am very glad for the social support trough my government available to kicked out teenagers but even that doesn't reduce the harm to zero.
@a sick nothing, truly a loathsome creature. How old are you? 3? These are the threats used by kids.
You are just confirming the fact that homophobes are brainless
@a sick nothing, truly a loathsome creature. You are an actual piece of shit.
I cut off a few family members when they started showing that they don't accept lgbt+ folks. If you don't or won't tolerate others for their way of life, there's no point talking to them.
A Lost One Exactly, very well said
Thx for this, being a teen and lgbt in an anti-lgbt family is hard and thx for reminding me that there is a loving community out there .
There is, you can be sure of that. You are never alone
I'm anti-LGBT. Because I'm pro freedom of sexuality. LGBT is more of an extremist lobby rather than an ideology.
@@xord1946 Hello!!! I'm LGBT+. It would be interesting to learn how exactly I and people like me are extremists? We exist too loudly? We want to be treated like others are treated?
@@FilosofiadiCazzeggio that isnt lgbt then. That's being homosexual. LGBT is not domething yiu are it's a lobby.
@Pk Amponn Pk Amponn The current understanding of the scientific community is that sexuality arises from a combination of genetic and environmental factors, even though the specific genes responsible for this haven't been identified. Besides you seem to think that something is either genetical or a choice. That's not true: an example of that is your nationality, you don't choose if you are American, or Chinese, German or South African,since it's not something determined by genetics or natural causes, it's full nurture, but once you are a certain nationality, you will remain that nationality for the rest of your life. One last thing, I took a look at twin Pais studies, and found out that almost all reported that twins have a 50 percent chance of being of the same orientation,so clearly some genetic factors are at play here
Saying a gay person can go straight and be happier is like saying a straight person can go gay and be happier. It doesn't work that way
What he really means is that gays can feel self-loathing and try to bury it as much as they can
It didnt make me much happier tho
I became straight when I became Christian
Maybe he means they can be happier if they walked straight? Then again maybe they aren't walking straight because they are happy
Chances are he found some gay folks trying to "take it till they make it" or he found some multi-sexual folks who are capable of having happy relationships with people of the opposite gender.
The fact he thinks that's a hard question, says it all about his religion and the damage it's still doing.
Tala Habern He sure seems focused on them, doesn't he?
@Tala Habern your correct. He mite say you have no proof... but tern that around, there is no proof that he does not.
It virtually says nothing about his religion and a lot about him.
It’s a hard question because while you want the BEST for your family society has brainwashed them into thinking that the lifestyle is the best and anyone that disagrees simply to HELP is against them.
@@tameracoates398 Yep, that would be the damaging effect of religion I mentioned.
I came out yesterday. My father told me the same thing Turek said. Thanks for making this. It means a lot ❤🌈
You have my support! ❤️ There are a lot of people out there ready to accept you fully for who you are and I hope you either know some already or can find some soon. You deserve unconditional love, not half-hearted tolerance.
It's been a year, how has it been?
@@patricksarama4963 Eh, my family’s opinion hasn’t changed, but it’s been ok.
@@LilVukie That’s unfortunate, but at least there are people online that will support you
I really can't properly put into words how happy I am that I live in a family and comunity that couldn't care less about my sexuality. It's something I hope I never take for granted. I hope that you'll get to experience that someday
I love that assurtion that a gay couple have never had a truely loving and honest relationship. Ok yeah, you just keep telling yourself that. Also commonly said is "Gay relationships are only based on lust." Gee, how did you determine that?"
That is no different than most heterosexuals, I do not know of any married couples who has not fornicated. They did it long before getting married and multiple times.
Because when you see family pictures of the "Good old days" when everyone was christian and had like 20 children then you definitely know that lust was never a factor in their straight relationship.
@Ptolemy 1 Same, I'm not ace but like more the romantic side of relationships. Also, I would never cheat on anyone. I feel so bad when my own parents reinforce these gay stereotypes in front of me
Also, pretty sure asexual homoromantic people exist too.
I'm gay and demi. What now?
Side note: I am Bi, and I find my relationships with women overall more fulfilling then the ones I've had with men so........ explain that Mr Pastor man 😂 When I came out to my Mum (christian) she laughed, told me she already knew that and not to scare her with the "I need to talk to you about something" line ever again 😂😂💚🖤
Yeah that makes me wonder how many gay men were actually bi and hence why they can go from dating guys to girls with no issue
If you lived under christian "love" torture, you'd probably have a better life just confirming with a relationship with any man (and little to no torture from your christian family)
@@Nickferal !??
@@Nickferal Uh wtf.
@@Nickferal "You'd be happier if you were tortured" or "You should date a man instead because of family coercion"
You know that one has to change their priorities when you prioritize a book over your family member's wellbeing...😒
You know one has to change one's priorities when one thinks that God's eternal word isn't qualified in determining what constitutes true wellbeing and what doesn't. Lots of things feel good, but aren't good for you.
@@Henrik46 You know one has to change one's priorities when you believe something simply because one book tells you to and that book was written by people who themselves never witnessed any of the things they wrote about.
People before dogma, every time!
Exactly... That's what I'm always wondering as well - how hard is it for people to realize that ideas DON'T have rights, but people do... God doesn't have rights because until someone can provide tangible evidence for its existence, it will remain just an idea, a thought in someone's mind that doesn't exist anywhere outside of it. BUT people are real, they exist, they can be hurt, they can suffer and die... Choosing your imaginary friend over real people or worse - over your own children - only shows your repugnant beliefs. Reality always > imagination
@@Henrik46 Good thing I don't believe in God so I can prioritise whatever I please.
If I hear "Gay Lifestyle" said seriously one more damn time, I will throw the nearest chair out of the nearest window.
And when you do, perhaps it will land directly on Turek's head!
I'm pretty sure what they really mean by "lifestyle" is "sex". I'm gay and have no interest in fashion, home decor, dancing, celebrities, musical theatre or any of the other stereotypical things that would qualify as a gay "lifestyle". I even prefer dogs to cats.
As far as I can tell the only thing that I do that makes me gay is the fact I have sex with other guys. Well... I did... I can't be bothered with it any more :-D
I do like Kylie Minogue though so they can't kick me out of the club.
How about the nearest child instead?
@@FyWy_ Throw a chair out of the nearest child? You monster!!!!
@@AnthonyHandcock Whenever I hear "gay lifestyle" I think about all the very masculine conservative guys whose only difference from similar straight men is the fact that they are gay and ugh
I came out as Transgender and my father gave me the best Reaction ever:
"Oh we got three daughters now"
And i love it. This is in my opinion the best way just accept it you cant change it anyway
That's amazing, it was hard for me at the begining, they tried to gaslight me in that I was just a confused gay guy instead of a woman.
@@hquq77q85 I’m proud of you for coming out.
Good for you. Sadly I never had the same reaction. I'm an abomination.
i'm ftm trans and when i came out my dad looked me dead in the eyes and said "I'm sorry you don't have a dick." it's my favorite story to this day.
@Brittany Orick Aww thank you. You're too sweet.
Now most of my family know and there's more members who support me. So I'm really happy about that ♥️
My mother always tells me I'm going to hell etc. It gets old fast when someone tries that.
My sexuality is 60% the reason I stopped believing God's existence. I knew if I was going to hell for being attracted to men, no matter how much I prayed or went to church, I might as well think for myself and research science. In doing that, I started believing less. And I'm glad I did. Religion engraved in my head as a kid was a source of my declining mental health. When I started puberty and my sexuality started developing, I knew I had to leave when I started feeling "dirty" and a "sinner" for thinking in a way that I had no control over. I'm glad I am no longer a part of the religion. It was shit for my mental health
Your pfp is hilarious and I love it. That aside, I understand the feeling of supreme guilt when the church forces anti-lgbt viewpoints on closeted people like us and many in these comments.
I’m a bisexual male but I’ve been raised in the Independent Fundamental Baptist church and they literally believe that god directly punishes countries that have any gay tolerance at all with natural disasters. They openly express the opinion that state should have gay marriage totally illegal. My father and uncle are deacons there and my grandpa is the pastor. I’m stuck in the church because of these deep familial ties.
I don’t want to be an insane cultist anymore so I’m going to keep working on moving out and saving money so I can attain independence from my home.
Religion is for losers. Glad you chose reality instead of ancient sorcery.
It’s that god that hates gays can’t be good,if he does exist we alls hound reconsider following him
I am so lucky to be born in hindu civillization . It has always accepted Kinnars/Transgenders a part of society. And as respected community..
I am bisexual. And i am proud of that. To mee all humans are equal
Sexuality was a major reason for me too, but it wasn't even mine, since I considered myself straight. Since I had developed homophobic stances mostly through religion and spent a lot of time reading debates about it and participating in some of them, I had enough time to think about the issue. After a few more polite interactions I had about it, I took the points I learned and thought: "What does a gay person have to do to remain Christian and loved by God? Abandon such an integral part of our existence because some ancient books and traditions are telling us so?" And boy was it a freeing experience. Just months after I stopped practicing Catholicism, I had my first thoughts about being transgender, and now I'm happily rediscovering myself as a lesbian transfemme and treating others with much more respect.
If my daughter told me she was gay, I could live with that.
What I can't live with is she's a fan of Nickelback...
Thankyou, both for being you and for my first laugh today.
An entirely correct position. No one should ever claim to be a fan of Nickelback, it's like claiming to love beige.
I do like some songs of Nickelback, Dark Horse was a good album imo
@@katzenlady3245 that's how Nickelback gets you...
I’m lesbian and I love nickelback fight me
"Be more like Jesus?" Jesus was not married ...so mariage is bad too ? :p
Jesus made that sacrifice to be celebate, preach and minister the gospel.
@@patsaxon5284
1.Prove that Jesus really lived and was like it was stated in the bible
2.Prove that he died the way they claim he did
3.Prove that he was resurrected
4.prove there is proof he was the sun of god ..
Untill then, you made an empty claim
Btw If you evidence is "but we have witnesses" then you must believe people, telling they were abducted by alliens, too as they were 'witnesses ' too and in contrast to the supposed 'witnesses' for the ressurection of Jesus, can be interviewed directly as most of them are still alive!
@@robertx8020 America makes over 77 % who I dentifies to be christians, prove to the majority that Jesus never existed, Jesus never died on the cross, never raised up from the dead. There are many who believe everything from the bible, and yet, atheists has failed to prove their points.
@@patsaxon5284 "America makes over 77 % who I dentifies to be christians"
In the middle East, 89% is Muslim so according to you Muslims are correct in Asia? If not , why not?
There was a time that alle Japanese people believed their Emperor was a God so since they (Almost) all believed they were right?
" prove to the majority that Jesus never existed, Jesus never died on the cross, never raised up from the dead. There are many who believe everything from the bible, and yet, atheists has failed to prove their points."
Again, eventhough you will reject it! People who make a positive claim have the burden of proof!
NOT the person(s) who don't believe it! Should I also proof that elves are not real? That I can't make gold out of lead? So no, There is nothing an atheist HAS to proof as this is a senseless claim! It would be nice if believers for once came up with something new in stead of repeating the same lines again and again even if these have been answered millions of times! We ARE still waiting for any proof though!
@@robertx8020 First of all, there's no proof that He was "the sun of God". Do you mean *Son* of God? Pieces of the Bible have been found within history, and that's how we have the Bible that we do now. Also, if Jesus hadn't died on the cross for our sins, there'd be no such thing as forgiveness or repentance because there'd be no way to be born again. He was the perfect sacrifice so that we could have the choice (freewill) to go to God through Him.
“I’m not gonna disagree with Jesus on this”
Yet they disagree and disregard most of the “laws” included in the Bible because they no longer apply. According to them...
Jesús said love one another... So they changed what love means, to torture their kids
The whole "If your feelings are sinful then you can just stay celebate" argument really rubs me the wrong way, for two reasons. 1st, is that the only comparable thing there is becoming an actual monk, which is a huge life decision that a lot of people through history have not been able to stick with. The other thing is that you never hear of anyone volunteering to be celibate In solidarity with their gay Christian brethren. I never heard any of these wads ever offering to suffer the deprivations they demand of others, which to me is the obvious loving thing to do.
To me this celibate thing is problematic into itself, because you're basically shaming gay people into submission.
They act like it’s not difficult. They judge you really hard for not being able to do something they’ll never be able to do, either.
"how do we interact with gay people"
You could take out the 'gay' part, and you'd have the same answer. EQUALLY. That's how you treat them
I have an argument that we should lift them up and avoid make them feel guilt or shame about their sexuality
@@suezuccati304 so, you're suggesting that they should be lifted higher and treated better just because of their sexuality? Yeah, no thanks. I don't want that. I'm a normal person, and would like to be treated like it. No special treatment
@@eryvac0074 people make me feel guilty and shameful because of my sexuality all the time.
@@eryvac0074 it isn't about "treating better", it's about compassion and emotional healing.
@@eryvac0074 see... I agree with that the treatment shouldn't be unequal to begin with, but that's not going to change any time soon.
And just looking at this video, it's safe to say that gay people will still be given the conversion therapy treatment for years to come. Mainly these people who comes from very abusive households will naturally need more emotional support from other people, because their families won't give them that.
It's something actually Engels talks about, equality for the sake of equality is utterly meaningless, people should be serviced in therms of their needs.
If they genuinely believe homosexuality is a choice, why don’t they choose that sexuality for a week and see how it goes?
They think of people in gay relationships as if they were drug addicts. Gay people think they're happy but they're just indulging in a "vice".
The funny part is I have had this debate often and it always boils down to "I don't want to", or "that would be a sin" (the answer to this is "you said repent was possible, just repent after, you did that in pursuit of truth"), or my personal favorite, "that's fucking disgusting no" which is them admitting God has nothing to do with their outlook.
'cause they might like it.
As a Christian, I don't believe it is a choice. However as a Christian I believe that God is able to do anything.
As a Christian, I don't believe it is a choice. However as a Christian I believe that God is able to do anything.
They should’ve asked “Why do giraffes and penguins often choose to be gay?” Also “why are some fish able to change their gender?”
People,
please make each a comment to
show that these ideas are embarassingly wrong.
Aye. There's lots of funky stuff in nature, from species that can change sex depending on necessity, to female-only species because lizards and snakes can oftentimes be able to produce embryos with a full set of chromosomes and essentially clone themselves.
And, of course, there is observed bisexuality and homosexuality in other intelligent and social creatures such as cetaceans and avians.
however, if we use animals as a way to prove morality, one could also argue that eating your own children is moral, non-human animals don't really follow morals
@@jogold867 Are you saying that Nayeli brought up sequential hermaphroditism as a matter of morality? What do you think the moral conclusion made based on sequential hermaphroditism should be?
(Hint: if you think that sounds silly, it's because Nayeli was not attempting an appeal to ethos or pathos, but logos: homosexual pairings are not a human social construct since they happen outside of humans; sex is not as simple as a binary, as it's even possible for creatures to switch between two.)
Because they would say god made humans and animals seperately, that's why your questions wouldn't have them stunted.
“Hate the sin, love the sinner” okay then… I “Hate the belief, love the believer”
"Hate the belief, love the believer, hate the extreme believer"
Right
My now sister came out as trans. Mom disowned her. Dad cared just enough to not let her go unloved.
Mom is a die-hard, God-first Christian. Dad was a depressed ex-Christian alcoholic. F*cked up ain't it?
It isn't a clean example against Turek's argument, but it is another example of Christianity's failure to perform its central tenant: love. It broke my heart.
The central topic of the bible is murder, not love
Oh sorry, no
Then why make babies ask your mom?
In time you will realize that just because they are your parents, that does not grant them empathy and intelligence. Find your own, joyful path in life, celebrate your awakening and emancipation.
Sounds like shitty parents but okay blame their religion.
The guy: "I will never stop loving my children no matter what they do"
My mom the moment she found out I was bi: "this feature is not available in your parent"
L mom
That's almost exactly how my family reacted to me coming out as gay. They tried to take me to a conversion therapist, who I went to and said I wasn't changing because I couldn't change, and he then refused to see me (good). My parents then tried doing subtle hints, like saying "when you have a wife ___". I just ignored those comments and kept being myself away from them. Now, they don’t argue with me and I don’t argue with them, but it's not much better. My dad sends me random religious videos on Instagram, some of which are about the LGBTQ+ community and how it's a sin and shit. Anyway, that's where we are with the whole thing, just sending me videos occasionally
If you were a kids today your parents might want to transition you to a "transgirl" and would be encouraged to do so. T+ should never be lumped with LGB since T is just as homophobic as christians are.
I hope they learn. My parents were similar but it took them a couple of years to come to terms with everything. My mom suggested conversion therapy but I never went, I was an adult in college when I came out so there wasn't much they could do. Even then there's still things they don't understand and it hurts sometimes. The only reason my parents changed at all was my mom, unprompted, did research into conversion therapy and read a lot of books surrounding the topic/history of homosexuality and Christianity
Sending love over the internet. It's really hard and I hope you have a support system irl ❤
Just my thoughts, but to your dad, I would do anything to make sure I text him factual, informed video links on the subject every single time he sends one of his propaganda pieces. He won't likely watch them through, but you'll be making the point that you have carefully considered ievidence even more than he has. He might tire ofthe exchanges.
Do you or anyone in this thread have any advice? I’m 17 and I haven’t made any of those decisions. (I’m homeschooled and my parents are extremely…. Christian)
I told my parents I was agnostic after doing weeks of research into it and making sure I knew for a fact what I was talking about, but they didn’t take it well at all and even now think it’s some ‘phase’ I’m going through because I have ‘so much more to gain from Christianity and because Agnosticism is extremely depressing’.
Haven’t dropped the “I’ve been struggling with being gay for the last 3 years without telling anyone” bombshell but it’s getting more and more weird to hear my parents to talk about me getting married in the future and them having grandchildren 😐
But at the same time they think that gay people are only gay as a way of ‘fulfilling lustful thinking’ and that it’s an abomination of Christian marriage etc etc etc.
Ironically, I haven’t even had my first kiss and atheistic agnosticism still seems much more appealing and realistic than going to hell.
I think considering I’m homeschooled it’s probably safer if I waited at least till college to tell them or until I’m in a relationship, but I have a whole year until I start college (I finished high school a year early) and it feels like being imprisoned in a cult of thought.
(I have 6 younger siblings who parrot my parents)
Any advice or experience would be very helpful 😅😊
@@th3logician I'm quite young so take everything I say with a grain of salt, but personally I think the best thing to do is either try to suffer trough that one year, tell them that you aren't agnostic anymore and try to make them pay for your college because "it's what Jesus would want" and move out as soon as you can. Or you could move out since in most places you can move out at 16, (you should look up your local laws tho) you could try either saving up for it or staying at a friend/someone you trust's house if you can
My Grandmother is Christian (catholic). She is a believer with all her heart, so much that I don't dare to tell her I've become an atheist.
But still, when I introduced her to my first girlfriend, she told me what a nice girl she is afterwards and that she's really happy for me.
Later she knew I was a man before I came out to her as transgender. She even talked to my Mom, trying to explain to her that being transgender is a real thing and that she thinks I might be a boy inside (Mom already knew and was accepting).
I've also heard many Christians say that they support Lgbt+ because Christianity is all about love.
I really don't get why he thinks that is a hard question.
That's fear-based indoctrination. Many Christian preachers use fear to control people, to them, controlling another person's life is indistinguishable from love. It's horrifying actually
It's mostly preachers. Normal Christian ppl are cool.
I read catholic as alcoholic. Sorry, but that was absolutely hilarious.
My grandma is similar in having her weird hangups and acceptance. My step sister brought her girlfriend come fiance to thanksgiving and she was a-okay with the lesbian thing. Now the vegetarian thing. She had *THOUGHTS* about that..
@@idigamstudios7463 our grandma is a hoot.
Some random guy: We should respect all people and not descriminate on the basis of something as arbitrary as sexual orientati-
Frank Turek: *Hipety hopety, your sexuality is now my property*
That's a good one
Nice straw man you have there. It would be a shame if anything happened to it.
@@Henrik46 Do you not know what a joke is?
😂😂🤣🤣
@@Cecilia-ky3uw As long as your refrain from buttsex, you're good to go. Or refrain from "lying with a man as with a woman." So you can be a male gay as long as you don't have sex. Oh wait, that kinda spoils the "sexual" in homosexual.
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2018%3A22%2CLeviticus%2020%3A13&version=ESV
Strangely though, I couldn't find anything on lesbians. I guess the Bible is fine with them.
I really hate it when Christians say: “God did this, so you can break through it and walk with him” (or whatever), because that implies that god just thought: “Yeah, I’m gonna make it harder for this one, because screw you!”
Yeah, this whole "Life is a test!" thing is kinda stupid. God supposedly knows everything. So he knows every decision you will make in every situation. Testing you is unnecesarry, he already knows the result of any test. If you conduct hurtfull experiments just for the lols then you're cruel and not an entity worthy of worship.
@@EskChan19 Also an unfair test tells you nothing useful. A test is only valuable if the conditions of the test are fair. And as we're all often told, "Life isn't fair." The impoverished gay woman in Saudi Arabia is Not getting the same test as Mark Zuckerberg, or the starving child in Somalia, or the Inuit Tribesperson up north. A disabled person is not getting the same test as a full-bodied Marine. Some people get 20 days to complete the test while others are given the test five minutes before it's due, some get simple questions like 2+2=x while others are expected to give a full ten-page dissertation on the Whiskey Rebellion as seen from the perspective of Great Britain. Some are given a full course on all the test material while others are given it as a pop quiz they had no chance of studying for and expected to "sink or swim."
If Life is a test, then it's the most disjointed, unfair, and broken test imaginable. And to the Christian, the means by which you pass the test is completely asinine. You pass the test by abandoning it entirely and submitting yourself wholly to the authority of the Teacher, and waiting until you're dead to figure out the results.
“God gives his hardest battles to his strongest soldiers.”Idk seems like a scam
I've been gay since I was a little boy. I got married to a woman, and it didn't change me. I studied the Bible for 14 years and it didn't change me. I became a pastor and evangelist and it didn't change me. I came out to my son when I was 48. I am that I am.
I don’t understand how he says that they are there to be more like Jesus, and yet, Turek does not advocate for celibacy for heterosexual people. Sounds like he isn’t speaking honestly.
no he's speaking honestly he's just saying that jesus was gay lol
Being like Jesus?
You mean being a jew?
Of course he's not speaking honestly. He's got too much money at stake for that. And all of it swindled from people who can afford it the least.
Jesus was never meant to have a wife, except the Church. He spoke multiple times on marriage, never dismissing it. This is classic obfuscation.
@@Henrik46 "church" was founded by his Lovers....
Come on you cant tell me mr"i Love everyone and probably Never existed" wasnt Gay or at least bi
Turn the question around and ask, "How are we supposed to interact with family members who have chosen the Christian lifestyle?" If the same advice doesn't work with that, it is bad advice.
This is great! I'm going to start telling my family that I love them in spite of their Christian beliefs.
@@seth_5394 I'm trying to get there. My daughter is gay and I'm hurt by the evangelical Christians in my family treating her as if she is not worthy of love. She's getting married soon. I want to love family despite their Christian beliefs, but I'm so hurt by how they are treating my daughter that I just have no desire to stay connected to them. I've lost all respect for them and it's hard to love someone who treats my daughter and her fiancee like they are not worthy of love. I feel like the best approach is to just be polite when I see them and not purposefully put myself in their presence. I'm so disgusted by their "We love you" hypocrisy that it's actually contributing to the deconstruction of my own Christian (albeit much more progressive) faith. I don't think I can abide by a religion that causes my daughter to not be able to rely on true love and support from family. I just can't. I'm sad and in mourning for family relationships that I thought were valuable.
@@atg7437 I'm sorry to hear about the situation. My experience is that this usually happens from people who believe that ones sexual orientation is a choice, which is a belief which can only be held by a person who WANTS that to be true. Logic and reason do not get a person to that belief. It is a belief which allows the accuser to place blame upon the accused for the perceived sin. It is a scapegoat, intellectually lazy, and selfish. To paraphrase Morgan Freeman, homophobia is not really a phobia because they're not afraid, they're just assholes. Good on you for staying true to your daughter. The suffering inflicted upon people in her position by abandonment from people who should love them is very heavy. So here is my question for you: If anyone, including family, treated your daughter shitty because of her height, skin tone, medical circumstances, learning aptitude, etc., how would you deal with them?
@@seth_5394 They don't believe homosexuality is a choice. Apparently they just think "Sorry God made you that way, but you need to be celibate." They "love" my daughter and her fiance, but just can't celebrate their union because God says acting on your sexual orientation is not okay.
I asked my sister-in-law to think about how my daughter will feel when her she shows up at my son's wedding. Like he is worthy, but she is not. I told her that this is not about her -- "We know you don't condone same sex marriage. We're not asking you to do so. We are asking you to show up and support your niece. There is nothing about her marriage that impacts your faith -- it simply celebrates your niece on a special day." Ugh. It drives me nuts.
I told her that I didn't see a path back for our relationship. I will continue to be cordial, but I think that's all I can do. I have managed over the last 40 years to create a faith journey that is independent of this crazy thinking, but I'm weary of fighting the association with this hateful approach to the gospel reflected by evangelicals. There is an inability to process 2,000 years of interpretation, of cultural context, of the obvious cherry-picking of scripture (I know I'm guilty of this last one as well). It's just "Hi. lI live in America in the 21st Century and I know what the Bible meant when men wrote it down."
You are right when you say it's selfish. So selfish. And, in my view, unChrist-like. I have not shared any of this with my daughter as I don't want to interfere with her relationship with her aunt. I've known this woman since we were kids (long before we married brothers) and I'm also mourning a life long friendship. While she prays for my conversion (I'm sure she doesn't think my Christian path is any more worthy than my daughter's sexual orientation) I will pray for her enlightenment. Something tells me neither of our prayers will be answered. I think I'm the winner here though because a wonderful young lady is about to join my family and I will have two daughters!
To answer your question, I think I would handle the same way I'm handling this. I would be cordial when I ran into them at family functions.
@@atg7437 Then their view point is at least as bad. Like "hey god made you this way but you shouldn't act upon the nature he made you in so you're just fucked." I don't have anything to say to a person who thinks that way. Again, I'm sorry you have to deal with that because when it's family it's not so easy to avoid them. They wouldn't be invited to any of my children's weddings if they think one is more sacred than another.
I don't want to try to sway you from your faith, but here's some food for thought... Nothing in the bible is original to the bible - the golden rule, the story of immaculate conception, the plagues, nothing. There are however many wise parts in the bible. I still enjoy reading Proverbs sometimes. My point is that there is wisdom in the bible and sometimes from the mouths of preachers which are not true because of the source, but because of the content of the message. I don't need the ten commandments to convince me that I shouldn't murder or steal and I don't need the idea of the forgiveness of sins through Christ in order to treat my fellow humans well. There is no any one source of infallible guidance. You are smart enough to recognize un-Christlike behavior and the inherent hypocrisy therein. Christ is not necessary for a person to be good to others. Maintaining your faith in the future or not, turning the other cheek when it comes to someone treating your daughter like shit would be immoral. You defending your daughter and accepting her fiancé (who I assume is a good person) into your family is moral. Religion is not only superfluous, but the cause of the dilemma you find yourself in.
Keep up the good work as a loving, supportive parent!
I'm so happy growing up in Germany. My mother always said that she always accepts me and that I can live my life as I wish, as long as I am not hurting someone.
Why is that so hard, especially for a religion who fashions themslef to "love" anyone to do? Where is the integrity when you only show sympathy and empathy is shown to those who are exactlly like you, and only like you? Shouldnt they love and respect anyone? And espacially their own children?
Tim Ketzer, Germans are--for the most part--different. In my 50 years, I've only known two people who were "extreme" in terms of religious views, but many don't strictly follow the teachings. Of course, this is anecdotal, but I had the impression that people who do believed in a deity did it more for traditional reasons than having a fanatical adherence to it.
I'd be interested in your impressions.
@@religiohominilupus5259 i know one ex-atheist who is a theist because of spiritualism.
@@religiohominilupus5259 My family comes from the east, where religion is mostly eridicated do to the socalistic dictatorship. But now that I live in the west there are still not many overly religous people to be seen. Churches having problems getting new members.
Nobody really follows the teachings here, a lot pay lipservice here. We think americans are prude and hypocritical.
Tradition, age and location play a big roll. A old person living in a villiage in the south is more likley to be religous or claim it to be.
@@TAK-yj4hj Yes, people in Southern Germany (mostly Bavaria, I'd wager) are a bit "different." But then, we know that Bavaria isn't Germany. Lol
@@religiohominilupus5259 Yes exactly. But you everone is a tiny bit different here and claims that they are the true germans. Thats happens when you have thousand german states and a major relious war. No real german culture emerges and everyone is a little snowflake in that regard :P
Thank you for the support. I’m a trans man and my parents are abusive as heck due to their belief that I’ll go to hell for it. I live every day at work in fear since I go by my preferred name and pronouns and my parents don’t know that I do. Like… if they ever caught me there I wouldn’t ever want to go home in fear of what might happen to me. It’s… terrifying, what this ideology does to people. My parents are christians and very in depth with their faith, they won’t even accept the fact I don’t believe and don’t want to participate in religion so they force me to go to church with them and pray before food. Like. I don’t want this. They KNOW I don’t.
Why can’t people just
Understand not everyone is like them.
I know I’m late to this video but if anyone comments or likes, it’s very well appreciated, thank you. May everyone else’s lives be better than my own. 💜
I'm sorry you're in such a tough spot. You did nothing to deserve that abuse. If your parents can't accept you for who you are, that is solely their problem, not yours.
The world can be a dark place, and you deserve a safe haven from it. Your parents clearly aren't providing that, so I hope that you are able to find one for yourself soon, whether that's by yourself or with a partner.
I know I'm just a random commenter here, but I wish you all the best, and you are not alone in your journey!
Hey, I am even later than you in replying. So sorry your parents are insuffrable. You have got to get out of there somehow. I assume there are financial constraints, but beat thos proverbial "interweb" bushes for some lgbtq support networking for some kind of options.
Best wishes for your future!
I’m sorry you’re suffering. I’m not trans but I do know how it feels to grow up in an abusive & religious household. It’s tortuous. I ended up getting kicked out at 16. Some people treat their children not as individuals but as property. I hope that you are able to find good support groups locally or online and that you can get a scholarship or work, save money and move in with roommates, friends or extended family. It won’t be easy but it is definitely worth it! In the meantime it helps to distract yourself by developing artistic and/or athletic talents or trying new hobbies like hiking. Driving aimlessly and listening to music helped me a lot as well. You got this 💪🏼
If I may ask, are you still in the same place in life?
Hey there, I'm not religious but let's say this religion is actually real, would you really want to go to a heaven where people are unsupportive of people and want to see them burn in hell for being who they are and not hurting anyone?
Frank: "I'm basing my ideas on bullshit from a few thousand years ago that should honestly be thrown in the trash at this point"
Fixed this for ya Frank
That's so nice of you!
Hope Frank gets to read this, he will be so grateful!
@Pk Amponn - I'll give my thoughts:
Your naked attempt to gain clicks for a video is _pathetic!_
Plus, if you actually had a good argument for the truth of the resurrection claim, you wouldn't need a link to a video - you would just present your argument right here and now!!!
By choosing to advertise a video link instead of stating your argument here and now, it is crystal clear that the evidence in the video is pathetic, and you just want more clicks for that video.
What else do you expect from a guy whose name is an anagram of "Kunt Fart"?
Give or take a few letters, but that's no sloppier than any of his arguments.
@@pauligrossinoz Wait, you know what he reminded me of? You know those click whores who leave their links in response to top comments on Pornhub? Exactly!
@Pk Amponn - of it only makes sense because of all that supposed martyrdom, boiling in oil etc. of the eyewitnesses to the resurrection, then you need to show me evidence of this supposed martyrdom, boiling in oil etc.
I will wait paitently for you to show reasonable evidence that these supposed martyrdom, boiling in oil claims are actually true.
Because if you can't show reasonable evidence for your claims to be true ... then you have no good reason to believe that your Jesus really was resurrected by some god.
So ... where is your actual evidence for your claims ... ????
*how should Christian's act towards gay people?*
Love everyone and accept them as they are unconditionally and without expecting people to change. Let people live their lives the way they want without judging them and respect free will and consent. Every human has value and deserves love (this especially shouldn't be contingent upon their attraction/who they love).
- a bisexual christian
That wasn't the question, the question was "How should they act toward someone that has CHOSEN the gay lifestyle."
@dj33036 .dj63010 Then the question is worthless since it's predicated on the notion that you can even truly choose to be gay, which isn't a choice. Done.
@Pk Amponn . Pedofelea is usely without a child saying it's ok and even if they do younger people can be whit a person who is older, only at 18 can they. Terrorist is entirely different thing, that is like saying if you lie about something small it's like murder. To people whit the whit the same sex is not wrong because it is not hurting anyone. Also if pedifeily is bad your pope is awful.
@Spencer Tracy dude ok if you say some feelings ( as long as it not pedofelea, rape and murder ) it's ok. Also if you are strait you wouldn't say that is a choice?
@Pk Amponn ok. You know some of them probably kill them selves cuz the people around like you say it is unatral also any one could get HIV it mite just be from umluckyness. Also can you show me the ardicul your first thing I just want to see it to make sure you got it from real ardiculs.
"I would never break off any relationship with a child"
"FBI open up!!"
To be fairer than this asshole probably deserves, he does say he wouldn't break off "relations" with a child- in the context it's pretty clear he meant that he wouldn't disown or disassociate or kick out his kid if they turned out to be gay. Which in and of itself is good, gains him a few points although by no means does it make up the massive deficit of points from everything else he said.
@@Penningtontj It was a joke...
Have a seat over there...
@@acidic-deadaccount-2836 well, i mean, he said was a lesson? Of course, its a joke, but thst doesnt mean that theres people agreeing it was a joke or something. (Yeah idk too help)
@@nathanjohnpalaogaming4872 Talking about David Riverdale, as well as this guy from this video here, who GMS responds here to:
I wonder if we shouldnt use the Report-system that RUclips offers,
to get those 2 removed.
I mean, it all comes down to if our disagreement with him is about 'taste' and 'opinion' or about 'objective harmful content and such' - as knowing this difference,
as i always preach, makes the
differnece (!) between
Cancel-Culture and its Opposite.
I often report, trying to be the opposite of c-culture - and you?
What do you think we should do now? Nothing or something?
All my LGBT+ peeps out there, stay strong and keep on keeping on, y’all are amazing.
I am in my 70's and can state that no one has ever come up to me and said "You can become attracted to another man if you try hard enough. Wonder why???
I like this take
Because there's a stigma to this, even in most non-religious communities. Forget seeing it as "gay vs straight" it's seen as being less of a man. When I first experiemented, I told all my friends. It was a litmus test. Thankfully, nobody condemned me. When I started dating a young woman (an atheist) and told her, we ended up breaking up over this because in her mind, it wasn't something a "real" man would do (her hatred of the idea had nothing to do with gayness, she's got gay brothers and friends and that wasn't her judgement). Anyway, we're back together now and have a few years of history, but it's still hard for her because of culture and jealousy and so forth. It's an odd dynamic I don't quite understand. Anyway, it is possible for a straight man to develop sexual attraction to other males, might be rare, but it happens and it doesn't make him gay or even bi-sexual (other than to say we're all bi-sexual imho, just on a scale). My guess is that culturally over the last couple thousand years the idea of same-sex relationships being "abnormal" has permeated the culture, if we go back in time, many cultures practiced homosexuality as "par for the course" among men who would also get married and love women and straight sex.
I think they need to understand: Your opinion about my sexuality is exactly as important to me as my opinion of yours is to you. Memorize this, Christians.
@Pk Amponn That is not the consensus view. As a gay man, I can tell you it was never a choice.
But I will also say that from a moral viewpoint, it does not matter. Genes, womb experience, nature, nurture, or agency, there is no moral difference.
H~i~g~h~l~y steal-able. Thanks for that! ^_^
You have picked an odd place to proffer such nonsense.
First prove god. Then prove the bible is its product. then prove it instructs morality. then prove it matters.
After you do that, then point to research showing the mental health of "ex-gays" surpasses that of out lgbtq adults.
@@jrwsaranac Oh wow 0_0 for a second there I thought you thought I was being sarcastic and responding to me.
Awesome take-down, dude. here here!
@Pk Amponn lesbians get periods because they're still biological girls, tf? It doesn't Chnage the fact that it's not a choice and that it's natural and it's found in the animal kingdom too. Which by the way, the concept of adoption exist in aninals in which they would raise abandoned offspring, this is called Kin Selection. And same sex parenting in animals has been documented. Homosexuality is even more common in our closest primates.
Ted Haggard preached "love the sinner, hate the sin" to 10s of thousands of his flock.
During that time, he was loving homosexual sinners, one by one, in motel rooms all over town.
If only all Christians who used that lame insult were so dedicated to their work.
"How are we supposed to treat homosexual family members?"
Gee, i dont know, like normal human beings that dont feel the need to live life according to what you find acceptable
Any one else watching this during church lmao
Good on you
I got to skip church today, so I watched this instead
A much more profitable use of your time
Tyler Griffin indeed 👌🏽
@@placeholdernameisplacehold7671 Probably is forced to or compelled to go.
Bisexual, atheist, furry, I became the very thing I swore to destroy
Plus 7 and a half months in the closet, the best thing that has helped me is having people to talk to who support me, stay strong guys.
Damn!, you got the whole combo! XD
Love your comment. Love your name. Love your avatar. Love everything.
I see I'm not the only one who got a combo starter pack. I'm an atheist, furry, bisexual, and black. I'm that one option on restaurant menus that's always existed, but people never knew the existence of.
@@bonthebunnycat667 Same. I came out to some friends, but I don't think I'll ever come out to my parents. I've been told that a demon is inside of me enough as it is.
@@buddha5446 Here in South America religion is still pretty strong, and were I live is a pretty old town and the majority of people is old too, so it is not a good place to come out xD
It's a life not a life style. Followers of Iron Age writer's. UGH.
@Pk Amponn because of gene expression. Twins are not the same person. There is far more to genetics than just genes themselves. In addition, gene mutations occur on a person by person basis, including twins.
This is why some genetically identical twins don't look very similar. It's why all twins have different finger prints. Finger prints are based on genes, but when expressed (basically realized through development) they come out differently.
You have a very poor understanding of genetics. The paper you cite would not surprise anyone who does like you seem to think.
Like...duh I would expect twins to not be the same.
Don't you also know that personality is directly affected by genetics? And that twins often have very different personalities?
You've never heard of some twins where one needs braces and the other doesn't? Does that mean the one chose to have bad teeth?
I seriously hope you realize the average person reading your posts knows this stuff already and you haven't got the "gotcha" you think you do.
It seems you are just listening to some science if you think it confirms what you believe but disregarding anything that doesn't. That's a very transparently silly position and you're not going to convince anyone with it.
@Pk Amponn You get HIV from having unprotected sex with someone who has it. Two pwople who don't have it can't get it from each other. There's a lack of sex education. Many people think that because you can't get pregnant then you don't need a condom, and that's false.
@Pk Amponn who the f* do you think you are, or your clerics, to offer anyone eternal life? you're next level bullshit but you're biased to not see it.
Orientation is life. Acting on that orientation is a lifestyle.
@Pk Amponn Sources please? No I'm serious, I genuinely want to know how you got some of the studies and statistics you keep mentioning, most of which are undoubtedly false. And, another quick question: why then, is the male G-spot located in the anus?
When people act like they're a good person when they're homophobic but say "oh well I didn't kick you out of the house" it makes me mad, cause like dude, that's showing basic human decency you don't get a medal for not disowned the person who you're supposed to love unconditionally
I was also a christian, and I fought again homosexual feelings based on christian beliefs. It didn't work at all. There was once that I almost commited suicide because I couldn't stop being gay. Later, I went to almost 15 different churches and I noticed that every christian church preached something different to the other ones; so I noticed there was something not right in christianism. I started reading, watching videos about science and ateism, reading more the bible and I found many inconsistencies in the Bible. Finally, I discovered christianism was a lie, and I stopped believing in God. I accepted myself as gay, and now I feel happy, released and free from guilties and worries.
Good for you! I’m glad you’re happy now, and I was raised Christian but I never really believed it. I think you should come first, and I’m glad you came out of such a bad place.
Nice good job, I can't imagine how difficult it was in those time of doubt, but you made it through 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I just don't have the desire to engage with Christians on moral and ethical issues because it is a waste of my time and the Christian's time. If the Bible is the basis for someone's moral beliefs, if the argument is always going to stem from scripture, then the conversation is pointless. Christianity and secular humanism are irreconcilable worldviews because one puts God first and one put people first.
The rock that every conversation I've ever had ran aground on was some version of, "well, everything you say makes sense. But I just BELIEVE what God said. That's why it's called Faith, sometimes you have to ignore worldly evidence."
I agree with you. I grew up in a very Christian place and people tried to argue with me about my "gayness" all the time. I've learned to ask, "Is there anything that could convince you that the Bible is false/not the word of God/not a reliable source of morality?" And if the answer is no, the conversation ends then and there.
I choose secular humanism because people are verifiably real.
You’re right, to argue from the Bible to someone who doesn’t believe it is pointless. However Humanism is not a good way to explain objective morality. Without God all you have are people’s opinions on what is right and wrong.
@Eddy Garcia And? I don't know of any humanist who is arguing for an objective morality - a morality that somehow exists outside of what we perceive as moral. That's the type of argument PragerU made, and it failed miserably. You're presupposing here that a morality COULD exist outside of what humans view as right and wrong, something that isn't even slightly proven
"How are we supposed to interact with family members that have chosen a gay lifestyle?" Clearly she was spoon fed that question. Really? In the 21st century, you think sexuality is a choice? In the information age, how is this even a thing?
It's a stupid question. Interact with them like they were heterosexual. What they do in the bedroom is none of your business. 😒😒
@@bellycurious That is exactly right!
Religion and information don't exactly get along
She just didn't want to know. In this day and age, ignorance is a choice, and many Christians pride themselves on choosing ignorance.
Oh, they still word it and think of it that way. My daughter was having a conversation with a woman who said to her stepdaughter that "well, we still love her even though she chose this difficult life style"
My daughter later told me that I audibly gasped(I wasn't aware of that) and she had to bite her tongue to keep from laughing.
A bit later I slipped into the conversation that "well, it's not like she had a choice....she WAS born that way"
When a gay person tries to be straight and gets into a heterosexual relationship, they are being unfair to their partner. Being gay isn't ONLY about the gay person. When these religious types try to shoehorn gays into straight shoes, they are setting up a situation where a straight person is also going to suffer.
This is the reasoning that pushed me to come out. How is it fair that I live a lie and bring a woman and children into it? If I don’t cheat, it’ll affect her? And if we get divorced, what about the kids? Not only do I ruin my life, but hers, our kids, and others potentially.
@@a.sarnelli exactly right.
Oh I totally chose to be hated by my family, mocked by society, and told I can’t be really married but a partner is okay. 🙄
That was sarcasm of course, but seriously, I am bisexual and was raised by far right, conservative, Baptist parents. Why would I choose this? But ever since I was young, I have found males and females to be equally attractive.
Yeah exactly. I'm yet to hear a homophobe who things gay is a choice explain why tf anyone would choose to be gay in a world of homophobes
Not gay myself, but I totally had this conversation with a religious person once. I mean... Seriously. With how LGBT people are treated by society, why would they CHOOSE to be that way? I hope she thought about it afterward because it seems blatantly obvious that if there was a choice about it, there's be a lot fewer gay people and a lot more asexuals in the world. Just saying. :P
@@wordforger I'm ace, and I once got into an online argument with some homophobe who said it's impossible to be asexual, unless you choose to be that way. Yeah right, bub. If that were true, couldn't those who believe or were raised to believe sex before marriage is a sin simply turn their heterosexuality off like a light switch until their wedding day?
@@isobelmiller7464 Ngl they might actually believe that last thing you said
God must be made of lead, because he f*cks up people's brains.
"How do we deal with family members who have chosen the gay lifestyle".
Me: love them and don't treat em like shit.
There’s a lot of disagreement in the Christian community on how to approach LGBT people. Being bi myself, one of the questions that led to major doubts that I’m working through is “How can love be wrong if it’s between two consenting adults who love each other?” I’m starting to doubt my faith and am looking to science and philosophy for answers.
Science is surely on your side.
Two adults can consent, so the pedophilia comparison doesn't work
I'm Christian and more than half my friends are gay, bi, etc so I take problems with this kind of thinking. I think you should treat everyone the same discrimination is one of the things destroying the world
@MarsLand he did say treat your neighbour as you treat yourself
@MarsLand I believe that, if such a God were to exist, he would find less fault with people being themselves than people trying to stop others from being themselves.
@MarsLand Precisely. It is about homosexuality, which can be a part of one’s self. One’s orientation is part of their identity and who they are. You, and some others, are going around, telling people that who they are is wrong. My question essentially is: If some god were to exist, do you think people who are themselves(LGBTQ+)or the people trying to stop them(people telling them they are wrong, sinning, should die, etc) who would find themselves in hell?
I was raised a Catholic until I was 21 years old, when I became an evangelical, along with my sisters; up until 2018, when I was 37 years old, I wholeheartedly tried to "change" my sexual orientation, but to no avail. It was at that time when I decided to embrace my homosexuality, and I started attending a local Methodist church, where I found love, acceptance and happiness, since they have a different approach to the Bible, when it comes to its interpretation (they favor a "hermeneutic" perspective, if you will, over a literal one).
While I find such approach adequate in terms of understanding that the Bible doesn't explicitly condemn homosexuality, I've also come to realize that such understanding is meaningless to people like my catholic parents and my evangelical sisters, since they base their asumptions on the matter on "arguments from authority" as presented by their priests and/or pastors. The bottom line is that these kind of people don't actually care what the Bible says about the whole thing - they only want to reinforce their own prejudices towards LGBTI people on the basis of regarding our lives as "unnatural", and that's just it to them.
Because of this, I think that LGBTI people should stop trying to change their relatives' points of view (which, most likely, will never happen) and strive to live their own lives in ways that make them feel loved, accepted and fulfilled, regardless of whatever their religious families believe about them, even if that means to keep a healthy distance from them. Nevertheless, always love and cherish them in spite of their behavior... who knows? maybe someday they will realize they're missing out on streghtening their bonds to all of you LGBTI people who happen to be reading this.
The funny thing is that, in my experience, this hermeneutic approach also made me realize that the Bible is not what most christians believe - THE infallible, perfect word of God, but rather, a human creation with so many flaws and contradictions that simply make faith something illogical and untenable.
And now, here I am, a 40 year old, out - and - proud gay man, on my way out of religion, enjoying your videos. Thank you so much for your kindness and your insight!
You treat others as you would like to be treated. The rest is bs.
You treat others as you would like to be treated, the rest is bi-sexual!
I want to he treated like shit
@@kendomyers even so, the golden rule still applies. Treat others that way first, it will come back to you. ;-)
I want honesty from others, dont you?
Don't do to others what you don't want others do to you, pretty sure something like this is in the bible, but this is a thing some christians aren't ready to learn.
This is the most generous, sweet, and wholesome channel I've seen. If everyone had half your empathy, the world would be a much better place 💕
I went to a class about how to love your gay family and it was taught by a gay man who was married to a woman. He was like “I’m still attracted to men, but I choose to deny the flesh and follow Jesus.”
Which at the time sounded great. But honestly, I came out of that class with more questions than less. I had seen a video testimonial by a trans man who “stayed a woman” even though he can’t stand it EXCEPT when he gets pregnant. So he got pregnant eight times. THAT made me feel gross. But it also told me something that I had never been told before… these people do not have a choice.
It was my first step towards true acceptance of lgbtq
Ok, this actually points to that person NOT being a transsexual. If you feel as a man, then pregnancy, which is literally THE most female function your body can perform, would be horrific. It should make you feel worse, not better. If you claim to not be a woman yet suddenly don't mind it when you're pregnant of all things, that points to a hormonal imbalance causing those feelings, not actual transsexualism. There is a subgroup patients who present with cross-sex feelings that turn out to have an endocrine imbalance, when that is corrected for, those feelings disappear. Hence why a thorough diagnostic investigation to rule out other factors is necessary, because there are several conditions that can give the impression of transsexualism without it being the case for that individual.
I did not chose to be attracted to sexual acts on women. If I can not be sexually aroused by seeing men preform sexual acts on men how can I believe homosexuality is a choice?
I am aroused by licking female ass. I did not have a choice in the matter.
@@hankbellows Who isn t?
Any person that isn't a scato.
Is it me or does Cross Examined sound like a terrible Dad joke.
profile pic checks out
You've now changed my view on that phrase forever, you demon
Not every pun is a joke. How old are you, 8?
Sounds to me like the name of a documentary exposing abuse covered up by the church.
@@Henrik46 What an utterly idiotic thing to say.
6:49 "My Lord is celibate" That's not true, he knocked up some chick and had a kid named Jesus.
Did he ask for consent 1st?
@@cthulhucollector I dunno, I wasn't there
@dana stef he CAN do whatever he wants but the question is SHOULD he?
cthulhucollector
He sent an angel to tell Mary she was going to have a son and she was like
*sure*
dana stef it’s almost like he was a rich white man in America. 🥁
Not funny? No, it’s not. But where’s the lie?
My grandfather was so concerned about my spiritual well-being in the afterlife that he pestered me non-stop about how he wanted me to be in heaven with him every time I saw him. It got to a point where it just wasn't worthwhile to visit him anymore because I wasn't getting my grandpa time- just the same old, tired, blindly offensive lecture. So I stopped visiting my grandfather. Then he got cancer. Then he died.
My last memory of my grandfather is those lectures, and frustration, and missing him, but seeing no point in visiting him again. Thanks, religion.
I find it interesting how many Christian RUclipsrs post "Why are our kids leaving the Church?"...and they point to the "secular society" or "atheist professors" or "the Media"...but never consider it's because of guys like Frank Turek and the fact that kids today are NOT rabid anti-gay bigots and don't want to be part of a religious viewpoint that is.
Coming out as gay was easy when compared to coming out as atheist. Nobody seems to mind much (at least to my face) about my sexuality. But as soon as I told my coworkers I'm atheist I began to be blocked and unfriended on social apps. Not too mention the incessant witnessing they did for me.
That sucks, I wish we could just be honest about our beliefs. I have been an atheist for about 6 months and I haven't told my family because they will probably kick me out of the house. I'm so scared, I have been praying with them every day and going to mass every week just because I don't want them to find out. I want to believe they would love me regardless, but after seeing their reaction today when I did not instantly agree with their comments of homosexuality "being a trend"... I'm quite scared.
“We are here to be more like Jesus”
...so non-existent?
Jon Spencer you mean...dead in three days??
that might just make the world a better place
*slowly disappears*
@@Kernwadi but he didn't have kids, so Christians are supposed to discontinue their lineage.
@@Kernwadi is it too hard for you to understand? Be fruitful and multiply was for thw old testament. The new testament gave the ok to celibacy and not reproducing- hence why Jesus didn't have a wife or kids. It's not necessary and if someone truly wants to be like Christ that's the way to go.
Nonsense. I was born gay. I am out and proud. How does my sexual orientation hurt any heterosexual person? 🌈
it hurts them because they themselves are homosexual or on the lgbtq spectrum, but they’ve been brainwashed to hate it, and themselves.
@@mx_nana_banana My wish for every homophobe: I hope when you are in the ER the LGBTQ+ medical personnel refuse to treat you and let you die. Or maybe an LGBTQ+ dispatcher hangs up your 911 call and let's you get murdered. That would be karma 🌈
@@arlosmith2784 perfect way to die for those hateful little people.
It hurts them because someone not being straight or cis affects there insecurities, normally created by things like toxic masculinity and religious roles for men and women, both making them think that they should be and act in a certain way and that is challenged by the existence of those who don't fit into those very small and rigid definitions. They may also be gay or trans but have repressed it. It's normally one or both of those things.
My father used to work in the "helping professions." One of his favourite sayings was "We're only as sick as our secrets." I think that applies here.
Hindu khatre mein hain
If Jesus was abstinent, and TURDek’s goal is to be like him, why doesn’t he practice what he preaches? 🤨
There's no proof Jesus was abstinent.
Dan E There’s no proof Jesus was. I’m referring to Turdek’s claim about his gay friend
thanks to you I now look at everything in a critical way. using reason and science. for that I owe you everything. never stop. your work is good
@Pk Amponn - here you are _yet again_ promulgating your lies!
I've already asked you, and you have yet refused to answer:
*Provide references* for your claims about those twin studies.
The whole world knows that you cannot provide actual references to these twin studies you claim will prove your point, and thus we know that you are a knowing and unconscionable _liar._
Thanks for working so hard to discredit the Christian religion! 😆
Pk Amponn do you really expect me to accept that one form of Love is really better than another. I'm a bisexual. are you really going to tell me that my love isn't worth as much as yours? provide evidence. and maybe actually look at some
@Pk Amponn dude why are you spamming all comments? You can try all you want but you're not convincing anyone.
@Pk Amponn Not one of your sources are the original study, or even credible. At best, the sources you linked are newsletters talking and interpreting what was found in the study without giving the actual information directly from the actual research. AND EVEN THEN, HOW DOES THAT SHOW THAT BEING GAY IS A CHOICE? Christ, you keep ignoring that question and it's getting irritating.
@@heckingbamboozled8097 they clearly haven't gone past primary school level of intelligence, utterly useless at compiling an effective argument they're seriously stupid and pathetic. Constantly copying and pasting the same information there is no point in engaging them I've so far seen them in over 10 comment threads with the same posts in all of them...
As a gay person, from personal experience, Turek's advice is very dangerous. It left me feeling unwanted and unworthy being a family member. It left me with all sort of mental gymnastic that I am now starting to work out. I am very grateful for you making this video.
is this useful?
ruclips.net/video/ezQjNJUSraY/видео.html
"I can't admit that I am wrong about homosexuality being a choice because then I would have to admit to being a bigot and religion is all about making me feel good" - Every Christian
I would posit that for many Christians this is not actually the case. At least many of the ones I know and interact with derive a GREAT deal of stress and unhappiness from the feelings of guilt and worry they derive from their beliefs about their own sinful nature. Which is one of the reasons I'm a fully-fledged anti-theist. This shit hurts folks
DoubleIrish DutchSandwich you’ve met every Christian have you?
God is made of lead
"My Lord was celibate." ... aaaaaand, how did that guy know that? how would anybody know that?
i can just imagine Mark scribbling down notes: "and THEN what'd you see him do, Peter? ... A counter-clockwise-swirl, you say? Oh, Jesus!"
I like the idea that God is just Zeus rebranding himself to get away from all hte children and angry women chasing him after he thunder-bolted out on the heavenly child support. like "What? no, couldn't be me, I have never had sex EVER, and jsut have that one kid. Don't ask how though. hehe...please dont tug on the beard..."
@@Luinta this is the most hilarious thing.
He knew it because any scripture saying differently was burned around 400AD
@AndyBeans Orthodooooxyyyyyyy!~
LifeonAtlantis? But grammar?
(Former believer of 30 years here) Why is it that Christians say “Well Jesus said to love everyone,” but his Sky Daddy said in earlier books that being gay is an abomination? So, are we sure that Jesus and God are part of the same entity? Because Christians love to make Jesus sound much more loving and forgiving than God is. Why is Jesus so much nicer than the God he is supposed to be the son of/part of?
And either way, where does it actually say that we are supposed to take Jesus’ word over God’s?
I get sooo many answers to this question. What a mess.
Why Jesus is nicer? This question is easy to answer: God and Jesus have different authors.
Christians have a very, very popular answer to that.
"The old testament does not count and can not be usedd in any way to discredit the religion or the Bible itself". Like, okay, over half your book is trash but that doesn't count somehow?
Dispensationalism is probably the only way to remedy the situation but the catch to that is the teachings of Paul which Paul... Paul isn’t my fave that’s all I have to say
@Pk Amponn Jesus advocated slavery man. God not only accepts it he also litterally made rules how to treat slaves. That is disgusting.
Also proofs regarding the ark actuzllyake it impossible to have existed.
@Pk Amponn - you are knowingly and consciously _lying._
The Old Testament clearly and unambiguously endorses the purchase of slaves:
*Leviticus 25 : 44*
_Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves._
You have just demonstrated the depths of depravity some Christians will sink to in order to try to justify the horrors of the Old Testament.
It's because of people like _you_ that Christianity is declining in the West.
Keep up the hard work! 😆
I am a closeted gay person and my family members are very devoted Christians. They are so very against homosexuality and believe that gay people needs to change to be saved.
I never came out and tbh, I don't feel the need to because I am well aware of what will happen if I do. They'd treat me differently and always lecture me to change like what they've been doing to other homosexuals. Seeing a straight former evangelist say these really means much to me, thank you for this
I remember one time my niece was a pre-teen at the time asked me if I really chose to be gay because she kept hearing all of this rhetoric from the church. I guess I'm glad that she actually came to me and asked me instead of believing. I told her if I really thought about it I guess I did make a choice. But not in the way that the church says I did. I'm gay, and that has never been something that I can change no matter how much I want to, no matter how much I try. But my choice was in coming out and living life in truth. I could have hit it, I could have pretended to be straight and be miserable for my entire life to make everyone around me happy. And I was on the road to doing that. However I've discovered that even though everyone around me seem completely happy, the trade-off was I was completely miserable.
I'm sorry, I have to stop this and comment at the 28 second mark.. Normally I try and watch a whole video before commenting but this guy you're responding to.. Wow.
If someone goes from a gay relationship to a straight relationship and says they could never find the satisfaction they have in their straight relationship in their gay relationship then they probably weren't gay.
In the same way loads of gay people who had striaght relationships and then realised they were gay and had gay relationships feel satisfaction that they've never felt before.
Right, now onto GMS's response.
Any woman that marries a "formerly gay "person is setting herself up for a pretty unsatisfactory sex life.
@@dj33036 I agree. Before I came to terms with being gay, I was a fundamentalist Christian and was trying so very hard to become straight (btw, if it were a choice, well, I was choosing straight at that point, and it didn't work, did it?). One thing I didn't do, though, was to get married, or even date a woman. I saw that as something that could happen after I was "out of the woods" where homosexuality was concerned and had successfully turned straight, otherwise I would be misrepresenting myself to an unaware woman and potentially hurting her. I have always been glad that I didn't take a woman on that emotional roller coaster ride by using her as an unwitting tool for experimentation. I wonder whether proponents of "ex-gay ministries" would like to see their daughters marry men who had been "converted."
@@dj33036 that's probably true.. Unless this person genuinely thought they were gay but then came to the realisation that they were bi or something.
@@tkat6442 I'm so glad you seem to be out of that now. And I completely agree with that last point, they almost certainly wouldn't want their children marrying people they've converted because on some level I think they realise that it doesn't actually work. All you can really do is make someone feel they have to fake it forever, but there will always be that feeling that any day their willpower could break and they'll give up trying to force themselves into a life that doesn't fit them.
@@tkat6442 forcing yourself to be straight leads to hurting women while trying, but accepting the feelings means condemnation. There seems to be no way to win or do right.
No, she did mean it. They think it's a lifestyle, they think it's a choice - but when you ask them why would anyone choose the so-called lifestyle when there is so much hatred directed against it you never get a sensible answer.
They will respond with "You are just doing it to punish us"
*“those who have chosen THE GAE LIFE ESTYLE”* I also chose the depressed, and ocd, lifestyle for fun and to defy the almighty. Lol
I chose the 5cm birth mark on my right leg lifestyle. I'm kinda depressed lol.
@@kevinquiroz5384 ay yo! I got a burn mark on my right leg!
@@kevinquiroz5384 And I chose the Asperger lifestyle.
I missed the period at the end there and thought of an almighty Lol, I'm scared to imagine that
And i definitely chose to become a sociopath due to childhood trauma and stress
Thank you for making this about the well being of our LGBTQ brothers and sisters. For many of us, our gut feelings about what we were taught the bible/god says about [fill in the blank] eventually made us reject that doctrine in the name of simple human decency.
There's no such thing as 'legitimate' apologetics. Every single one of them, from the bridge-dwellers to PhD's like WLC, are all entirely fallacious in their reasoning.
yeah, the very term (apologetic) shows that clearly. people apologize when they think they did something wrong.
I appreciate this video so much. I grew up in one of those denominations that believed thinking the sin was as bad as the sin itself. Since I couldn't make myself be unattracted to other girls, I was pretty sure god made me with the express purpose of sending me to hell. Really, at 8 years old I was sure there was no way to get out going to hell, and there was no way I could talk to my family about it because they regularly and openly talked about how just it was that god sent gays to hell. Talk about permanent emotional damage. It really kind of fucked me up, and I'm not sure I can ever fully forgive what was done.
Ditto sister. I hope you can find peace and happiness. IDK how old you are, but don't set your life aside for others. When you get old you will really regret it. There is no reward for the sacrifice you make for your family. Even if you remain celibate and closeted, you will still be flawed in their eyes, no matter what you do.
can you do one on trans hate because im genuinely scared to simply exist in America anymore
I'm in a similar situation here. I'm not american, I'm mexican, and as far as I know, there aren't any laws that are against trans people (tho I gotta say, my knowledge is very limited on that so who knows :p) but the thing is, people here have a very old-fashioned perception of trans people (and even LGBTQ+ people in general, tho we're making good progress in that regard). Being trans here is kinda hard, especially if you don't pass like me, so you essentially have to deal with people misgendering you all the time (at least in my experience. I haven't started hrt so people just perceive me as a man in a skirt).
Language doesn't help either bc spanish is a gendered language, and that brings so many more problems (we do have what we call "inclusive language", which is basically a neutral gender for spanish, but it's not very popular and generally very ridiculized)
I just hope things get better for us trans people both here and in the US. I wish we can just live our lives like any other person would. Despite that tho, having a group of friends who will accept you no matter how you look or how your voice sounds, is really amazing, so not everything is doom and gloom :3
It's interesting how the ads at the start of this channel's videos are increasingly just Christian apologetics ads. The one I just watched was for a video called 'What Would You Say', which trains Christians to repeat certain arguments in response to comments made by atheists. It doesn't teach critical thinking - it literally hammers a set of arguments to be rote learned, as if they were... well... commandments.
Instruction, not education!
When you see an ad for stuff like that, just remember that they are literally paying channels like this to show people just how ridiculous they are
Well, on the one hand, it's really bad for the people who follow these suggestions. On the other hand it makes it super easy to debunk them so that's nice.
@@EskChan19 even if those arguments were made with critical thinking they would be easy to debunk, they just make no sense. And if someone actually began useing critigal thinking and wondered about this topics, they would very quickly abandon religion.
I want to see scientific studies with evidence that shows that the emperor's new wardrobe is not the finest in the land. None of this anecdotal stuff.
Praying for gays to go straight is about as useful as praying for them to grow an extra arm.
Or praying in general
Oh God I'm not two minutes in and I got the "You could never do anything to make me stop loving you" parent answer. Religious parents must all read the same book. My mother let me know how disappointed she was in me, that this is a colossal failure in my values, but she "loved me anyway." Aw. Thanks, mom.
Thanks for the analysis GMS! You're awesome and I have been enjoying the critiques of Turek
does Turek get money for talking like this? how can you even support this?
Count on it. It's a matter of money not souls
He gets money. I used to attend a college/career group that had Turek speak monthly.
"I love you but you need to be like me" isn't love.
first of all, it's "i love you but you need to be like jesus" or more accurately "i love you but you need to obey god's commands". original quote can be true if the person is obeying god on the particular subject but you're just making it sound arrogant unnecessarily. second, love is not about your feelings. read 1 corinthians 13:4-8 to understand how bible defines love. it does tell you to be kind, but in no way does it tell you to embrace or encourage other's sinful acts if it hurts their feelings. it is probably best to just ignore them unless they come to your church (1 corinthians 5:12).
@@joegame4576 Actually, it depends who you're quoting. I was referring to a Christian's expectation of other people to think and behave like them, which is not necessarily like Jesus.
@@noi5emaker yeah so i was saying IF they lived like jesus, it would be a true statement but you also need to read between the lines. some claiming to be christians can be arrogant like that. also, you shouldn't generalize that quote to every christians. every christian i know realize they are not living as they should. it is a constant endeavor to perfection. i have never heard a christian say "be like me" except the apostle paul.
@@joegame4576 What I said was not generalizing, but talking of some who would love others if they were like them , which in this context is straight.
@@joegame4576 Jesus loves you so much that he created hell just in case if you don't like him back 😊
I've never heard of a single person "come out" of homosexuality and feel better for it. It's always something that makes them feel worse. I know someone who was forced to go to conversion therapy as a teen and now, as a mid 30s man he has to go to therapy to help him get over that time of depression. Every single person never regrets coming out for themselves