I wanted to chime in as a 2016 Rav4 Hybrid owner. It was the first Rav4 Hybrid, with a 2.5L NA engine (Atkinson Cycle) and similar specs. The car has been absolutely bullet-proof, zero maintenance in 8 years other than oil changes, tire rotations. Its taken us through deep snow storms and ski cabins (unplowed), with all-weather tires (goodyears) on its pretty basic AWD. This Subaru hybrids have very similar specs, but fix two areas. One is range on a single tank of gas - this is a huge deal as it means we dont have to fill up as frequently and makes for more off-road excursions away from gas stations. The other is a mechanical AWD system, which is superior to Toyota's as far as grip and offroad performance is concerned (maybe taking a small efficiency hit). I am seriously eyeing trading the Rav 4 hybrid with Crosstrek hybrid with this specs. 200+ hybrid HP is going to wake that little car up and ground clearance is also more vs Rav4! The only negative is its smaller. I dislike the dorky look of the Forester and Outback so thats a non-starter for me personally - but beauty is in the eye of the..lol
The question is, how much longer will the battery last after the battery warranty expires? Predicted battery lifetime is 12-15 years. Will the cost replacing the hybrid battery nullify 12-15 years of fuel savings? Most likely.
@@TractshunThis IS a Vehicle that I'm Willing to Wait for, 🇺🇲⛽️🇨🇦Assuming IT Keeps the Fuel ⛽️ Tank Size & Ground Clearance [All Weather tires]. Boston MA🇺🇲
@Tractshun fair question. I dont know but doubt it. The NiMh batteries can be refreshed. Also, hybrids save on brakes as well, transmission service and last but not least the power is much smoother and stronger. Its a worthy trade to be honest, for the very reasonable uncharge.
@@sunnyvalentino If brakes are designed properly, they seem to last a long time. I just did the rear brakes on my '20 Forester at 95K miles. I still had plenty of pad left to go over 100K miles. The fronts had more than double the pad of the rear so I'm still using the factory pads. I've never had a vehicle where the pads lasted this long.
I am glad that Subaru went with the direction I was hoping them to go for: electric motor supplementing Symmetrical AWD. this makes much more sense than trying to shove Toyota's Atkinson Cycle hybrid system into a boxer engine. Hope they are successful to the point that frees up the CAFE limitation for Subaru to build the STi that the VB gen deserves so much. I've been waiting to buy a daily car as well. While Cresstrek Wilderness is nice, I am waiting to see how this new hybrid system is going to work out.
Kurt, love your content, I'm a long time subscriber. Can you please adjust your video editing software to minimize your face so we can see more of the great images and spreadsheets you show? Half the time they are impossible to read on a small screen when your photo takes up almost half the screen. Thank you in advance for the adjustments.
Thanks for this Kirk. I've been a Subaru lover since our first Outback in 1996. We currently have a 2011 Outback which was the 2nd year for the CVT which gave significantly better mileage than manual or ancient 4 speed auto. We have been waiting for Subaru to come with a hybrid for a looonng time. I think they really upped their game with the Wilderness variants, except for mileage, So here's hoping they bring a new Wilderness Forester with the hybrid in 2025. Thankfully, our 2011 Outback has been great but we can only wait so long,
I attended the LA Auto Show a few days ago. A Subaru spokeswoman told the audience the Forester hybrid will be in the dealership lots in the summer of 2025. The base model will start in the low $30k range. She doesn't believe it will have a spare tire. Only a tire repair kit.
Looking all over the planet for this... Does the new Next-Gen transaxle have a CVT belt/chain? I'm hoping Subaru goes from the shortest lasting transmissions to the longest. I have 3 Toyotas with the eCVT and they are the greatest transmissions ever made!!!
There’s no reason why the new Forester shouldn’t have 215 hp - 230 ft/lb torque and get 38 mpg. We have a ‘24 Forester Touring and it’s great except it’s underpowered. The added power with electric motors would help with acceleration & NVH improvement of not having to run the engine wide open to get it up to speed.
Exactly! We he said 205 HP total I was very underwhelmed. Heck, the Toyota 2.5L by its self has 205 HP. Like you said…the new forester should have at least 220hp -that would solve the acceleration problems.
Are there concerns about the many times the engine will start and stop? In terms of dry starts or is there a way to keep the engine oiled so the multi starts will not be dry starts?
Great video, good if the Crosstek will have +- 200hp, and a 1.1kwh battery, the Forester could have a larger battery of 1.3 +-, and around 240hp combined, to have a relatively better weight-power ratio.
The Crosstrek is sold in Australia as a conventional boxer car and as a mild hybrid e-boxer. For your comparison the mild e-boxer uses a 2 litre petrol engine with a small electric motor. Numbers are petrol engine 110kw and 196Nm and electric motor 12.3kw and 66Nm. I think the battery is about 0.6kw capacity. These combine for a best fuel efficiency (highway and urban) of 6.5l/100km compared to the conventional engined Crosstrek with combined fuel economy of 7.2l/100km . No one driving it however ever gets this low a number. What has been announced will improve the e-boxer immensely. We are expected to get the Forester with the new e-boxer arrangement in mid 2025 direct from Japan. I assume the e-boxer Crosstrek will follow soon after as the Forester is the big seller amongst Subarus in Australia.
Subaru diesel versions deleted as per most other manufacturers. Kia is still selling diesel Sportage but others have opted to develop hybrids and delete diesels.
@@erictrinklein4408No diesels in Europe either, and in the UK specifically (not sure about the rest of Europe) we currently only get the eBoxer mild-hybrid on the Crosstrek and Forester, so the full-hybrid is definitely a welcome addition. The Forester is due to launch in the spring, but not sure when the Crosstrek will arrive.
Subaru invited tons of car journalists for their showdown of ehev Crosstrek. What made it unique was the setup. The test course was summer gelende with steep updowns and muddy truck. This tells where Subaru's focus is: they never sacrifice their AWD capabilities. Many of the journalists said that the torque and acceleration was great. Hope we can see one soon in us.
Subaru has one of the best AWD systems on the market and do pretty well in off-road and snow/icy roadway conditions. I understand vehicles like this (SUV, 4x4s, ...) typically have very poor aerodynamics and really suffer at highway speed. This is a major factor limiting their mpg. Still, I also believe in trying to make things as good as possible. My hope is they are somehow able to optimize their Cd for high speed, yet keep their off-road capabilities. Lose some of the silly plastic cladding, maybe have speed sensitive adjustable front air dam, maybe even a speed sensitive adjustable suspension that lowers the car at high speed. I know, this would cost too much, but I can dream!
IMO, based on the little knowledge I have about hybrid systems, Subaru should have gone with a smaller gas engine, a larger electric motor with a lager battery pack. They also need to add a 4WD lock to make sure power is sent to the rear for going offroad vs just using their existing fluid/clutch system to send power to the rear.
Crosstrek hybrid does _not_ (have a spare)because that's where the battery is at vs. under the back seat and losing storage capacity. I would guess the Forester will be the same.
Love Subaru developing a hybrid. The one issue that has kept be away from them in the gas mileage. If they can get it into the 30’s I will be in the market. I was considering an AWD Camry, but I would rather get a hatchback or station wagon.
@KirkKreifels Just caught this. Great video! Have you seen any Japanese reviews of the Crosstrek Hybrid yet? Other questions for the future: - Spare tire? - Which Lithium-ion battery chemistry are they using? NMC? LFP? LFP is heavier but performs better (i.e. actually functions) in below freezing temps. - Engine conditioning: does the engine always come on immediately when starting the car to warm itself up, circulate engine oil, etc? What steps (if any) has Subaru taken to ready the FB25 for frequent start/stop duty?
Epower is an all-series hybrid, so it isn’t really fit for bigger models. What they will do is use Mitsubishi’s PHEV system instead, like what they are doing for Rogue
Nissan should go bankrupt and be out of business for their shitty cars and trans. So cheap and poor engineering. The only car that’s good is probably the gtr but then again it’s outdated inside and looks the same for over a decade. Then dealer messed up the Z by overpricing it when it isn’t worth that much and sales dropped bc nobody wants one. They just don’t put in good time and effort and money into their cars. Mazda Honda Toyota and Lexus are far better Japanese manufacturer
@@Blank00The European Nissan X-Trail, which is same car that you call the Nissan Rogue, has an ePower option with either FWD or AWD, so there’s no reason why it couldn’t in North America.
@ the E power is not optimized for highways. Honda’s hybrid is basically the same as E power, but it has clutches that make highway driving more efficient
I know that Subaru is using Toyota technology and components but I can't figure out which toyota system this is most like. Kirk, are you able to clarify? thanks
Sorry if I missed it but does this use an e-CVT like Toyota and Honda or is it a typical belt CVT? Also would the next outback get this powertrain eventually?
Subaru are certainly going to increase sales of the Forester in the UK once the hybrid comes out - it launches in spring 2025 apparently - because Toyota UK has just pulled the RAV4 HEV from the UK market, so it will now only be available in PHEV. I found out when I tried to order a RAV4 HEV last week. Toyota might have done me a favour though as the AWD system is better in the Subaru and I don’t mind that fuel consumption could be a bit lower than the RAV4. I’d only discounted the mild-hybrid Forester because of the much high fuel consumption and emissions, and the full-hybrid system should help with both those things.
Yes!!! Love this coverage. I am still holding out for a Plug-In Hybrid version again with ~30-50 miles of range. That would be amazing :) But the "strong Hybrid" Trek looks great.
I have wanted a plug in for Years...I thought........But if You charge to full, The regen won't work.....Computer cannot allow that.......But the onboard natural charge while driving will keep you 60----80% and still allow regen......To Me, The real value to electric is to have regen..............Paul
The reviews (recent) I saw of the new Forester e-Boxer (hybrid) in Europe shows the vehicle with no spare tire which is a concern and unsure how this will work in Wilderness editions. It is my hope the new Outback can accommodate the hybrid drivetrain AND provide a spare tire while the Forester uses a tire repair kit.
We’ll see how it goes. I’ve noticed the last few years build quality seems to be down with Subaru. Our 21 Ascent has not impressed me with its overall build quality and the loaner outback’s (new with less than 5k miles) have had similar suspension noise and build quality impressions.
My observation as well. Quite a few coworkers and friends have purchased new Subarus since 2021 or so. The appeal being price for AWD and storage during ski season here in Colorado. Time will tell if the drivetrain is fine, but the interiors are all hard plastic and very poorly upholstered leathers or fabric liners. All of them have so many rattles and creaks. At 2 years old they sound just like my old 13 year old crumby Ford that was $14K brand new, $18K today adjusted for inflation.
@@derringera it’s really sad to see it. My previous Subaru’s held up far better over their life. Our Ascent has been to the shop more than the last 3 new cars we’ve owned, 2 of those being Fords. I don’t foresee it leaving us stranded, but a lot of annoyances for such a new car. The CVT has felt off for quite some time and whines like a bad power steering pump, even compared to loaners with the 2.4 turbo. But it hasn’t “failed”, so Subaru won’t replace it.I really wished we would have gotten a Highlander Hybrid over the Ascent. Live and learn.
LOL that thing still has a long drive shaft connecting the front to the rear. The Toyota hybrid AWD system does NOT have that shaft because the rear wheel are driven directly by the electric motor powered by the hybrid battery. Toyota calls that rear differential/motor the rear transmission. I've been a Toyota tech since 1998 and that system has been around since the 2006 Highlander hybrid AWD and I have never seen any problem with that system.
Pros AND cons of each approach, and the video touched on those. The Subaru system can put (I believe) up to 90% of the power to the rear axle when called for. Imagine cresting a very steep dirt or snowy hill where the front wheels have no meaningful traction. The electric motor in the rear axle on the Toyota isn't going to have the power to get the vehicle up and over the hill on its own. Subaru's existing AWD system is better than most, and they made the right call sticking with it here despite it definitely being a little less efficient and more expensive than the Toyota eAWD approach.
I wonder how much the Forester will cost,,,, I love my Subaru 2012 forester. So, I have been waiting. Some say don't get one the first year they come out. Hmmm
Probably a good thing that Subaru has been 'late' to the EV party; ie. it seems Hybrid is the more preferred option for many new buyers, and Subaru hasn't wasted valuable resources in going down the EV-only path. There's clearly a ton of interest in how Subaru's AWD will integrate and behave in these new vehicles.
It sounds like Honda will be sharing a lot of components across all of its 2025 Civics. That has to be a plus on both parts pricing and mechanic familiarity.
@@NomenClature-o8s It basically is a Toyota hybrid with a Subaru engine and AWD system. It will be better performing than any AWD hybrid in Toyota's line-up.
@@kiefershanks4172it’ll have less range because boxer engines aren’t that efficient compared to inline 4 cylinders. Also Toyota current NA 4 cylinder family have 40% thermal efficiency, which Subaru’s flat 4 doesn’t get anywhere near that.
Differences seem to be engine differences (2.0l vs. 2.5l), more cargo space (and lower weight) in the upcoming hybrid, but little/no EV-only range. This feels like more of a 'hybrid default' transition akin to what Toyota is doing with their lineup.
Sounds like it should compare well to the 2.0L hybrid system in the Toyota Corolla Cross Hybrid. A little more power and a little less fuel economy. That would put it probably between Toyota's 2.0L and 2.5L hybrids by my guess.
please be good please be good 🙏 had a WRX Sti a few years ago and the awd was great on snow, now I need an suv to go on remote often deformed mountain roads and my current car is way too low, I also need a hitch for the 1st time in my life I went to see the 2024 forester but the european e-boxer is atrocious bad mpg bad emissions (yearly tax here can go from 200$ to 2000$/year depending on them) slowest in class I sadly left without one, I hike 10-15hrs if I can skip refueling on the way back home middle of the night it would be great
beat Toyota/ Honda in what way? definitely not MPG, but i prefer a full AWD as opposed to eAWD. i am curious to see how the EV mode works plus if there is any regenbraking
The original Chevy Volt before it was release was going to act like a generator to charge the battery and not power the wheel. It could not charge the battery fast enough so Chevy had the ICE power the wheels. I don't think the technology is there yet and I work on the semi side of auto for controllers, etc....
I’m planning to buy a Toyota Camey 2025 hybrid, but I am really worried about the life of the battery and how much does cost to replace it! Can't make a decision
Toyota’s hybrid batteries are warrantied for 10 years or 150k miles. To expand the life of your hybrid battery, do not block the cooling intake vent and keep that hybrid battery filter clean. The Car Care Nut channel has a lot of information on Toyota’s Hybrids
The batteries last longer than you would expect and if you are in a big city, you can probably find a service to install a refurbished battery for cheap ($1K - $2K) if needed when the car gets old. The battery thing for hybrids is completely overblown.
At least 6.3L/100km... Hmmmmm. Not amazing but for an AWD vehicle it is really good. I would expect to easily be able to achieve 5.8L/100km if you drive conservatively. The thing that can't really be expressed with written word is the driving experience which would be esssentially a Prius with Subaru AWD. Instant torque with very linear power delivery. It will be so much better than the current CVT. I think this powertrain will make Subaru much, much better to drive. They were smart to start with the Crosstrek over the Forester given how popular the Crosstrek is. A Toyota eCVT hybrid Crosstrek is definitely on my list of next vehicles. One of my family vehicles is a Prius and it is a tank. That drivetrain coupled to full-time AWD probably feels great. Not fast but efficient, responsive and really great to live with.
In 2012, I needed a new car and it was between the Legacy(32 mpg) and a US VW Passat TDI(40 mpg). In the end I went with the TDI which is a great car. Now 12 years later, no more TDIs in the US, so I was thinking of a Legacy again. Then came the 2025 Camry AWD which will get 2x the mileage of the Legacy. The downside is that the Camry will have an electric motor driving the back wheels, so it really can't go everywhere like a Legacy would. Now, there is no future for legacy and there is no Impreza Sedan, so it is possible that Subaru will lose again. I can not live with a forester, so the crosstrek could be a possibility, but will not be here in time.
Curious why the CRV hybrid is faster despite having lower hp/tq than the rav4? Looks like it might just be lighter by about 100lbs? Or due to a better 2 motor system? 7.5s is just quite slow so not so appealing and no way it's gonna have the reliability of the proven toyota system or even honda.
It’s how Honda’s hybrid system is designed. Honda’s system relies heavily on the electric motor and the engine is connected to a generator. So the CRV Hybrid has an almost EV like feeling. Honda does add a lockup clutch (or 2 for the CRV) that engages at certain speeds because there are times where its more efficient to have the engine drive the wheels.
I'm surprised that with its greater size and weight, the Forester wasn't the first Subaru to benefit from this new more-powerful and fuel-efficient hybrid system, rather than squeezing the components into the smaller and already more-efficient Crosstrek.
Subaru Japan still has the prior gen Forester and they don't sell as many of their larger models, so its not a huge surprise. They went with volume first there in Japan - that's the Impreza/Crosstrek/Levorg line.
I dont fully understand how it beats Toyota seeing it uses the same system. The only major difference is that Subaru has a physical driveshaft going to the rear axle.
13:49 you are comparing which cars with the 0-60??? The Toyota is faster when comparing Camry vs Accord lol. So not sure what’s the point of that statistic
We looked at an Outback, but it was the mileage that pushed us to the competition. If Subaru also puts buttons and knobs back for climate control, seat heaters, etc...(we wont buy a car with the giant touchscreen for everything approach), a Subaru hybrid could be our next vehicle. We're not ready to go BEV, but each car we purchase has to be better in mileage than the one it replaces.
I agree. As much as I like the Subaru cars, the poor mpg is why I won't buy one. I live in Los Angeles where gas prices are the highest in the nation. Next year gas prices in California are expected to increase significantly. I'll wait until the Forester hybrid shows up before I buy. And I don't like that giant touchscreen either.
MotorMix claims that the engine will be a 260 HP turbocharged hybrid engine. This is not evident from your presentation? So I wonder what it is going to be like?
Does Mazda and Subaru pay a premium to Toyota to use their technology? If so I guess the cost well be passed on to the consumer making them more expensive than a toyota/lexux product.
15:40 Subaru will be lucky to achieve their previous target (40% HEV & BEV). The new target is poppycock. My guess is that by 2030, Subaru will be 60% ICE, 30% HEV, and 10% BEV.
How in the heck could the Suby with mechanically linked AWD match the fuel economy of the Toyota Rav4 Hybrid with eAWD? Seems unlikely at best. It seems the curb weight of the two vehicles will be nearly identical as a Rav4 Hybrid is only like 400 lbs more than a Crosstrek currently. If mechanical AWD can match eAWD, why would Toyota not adopt this tech that they helped develop into the other million hybrids they sell each year? More parts to wear out and more complication? It seems like the parent company Toyota would at least add as an option for those who want a higher performing AWD system. ALSO, maybe not as relevant with the Subaru AWD, but at least Toyota needs to add a function to lock AWD in all of these vehicles with AWD. Hyundai/Kia has that button! Trail mode is not sufficient and also there is no AWD monitor view in the Toyota hybrids other than the Highlander and presumably the Grand Highlander. That is useful in tough conditions.
Can’t say I’m a fan of Subaru… but I quite like the crosstrek, and I’d like to see these things do well. It wouldn’t hold a candle to my v60, and I wouldn’t pick one over a cx-50 or crown signia… but if my sis’ Corolla ever kicks the bucket (and she went through 2 in the pandemic, from black ice and a red light runner) crosstrek hybrid would probs make my shortlist of recommended replacements, since “compact” sedans have gotten so big, and she likes her wheelbase small…
Nobody in North America will get their hands on a Subaru hybrid until 2026. Even then you will have this stupid 1 year wait list that Toyota is doing to ppl in Canada. Those cars on are U.S. dealer lots but not on Canadian soil.
I started to get excited looking forward to these, but then realized Subaru will likely stick to their garbage outdated potato-powered infotainment system. If they upgrade that though I’d love a forester hybrid.
The 11.6" infotainment was a big disappointment for my family on a recent Crosstrek testdrive. Some of the most important climate controls are in the touchscreen so the driver or passenger has to take of their gloves/mitts to adjust it, which is not nice in Canada's climate. Even though the temp control is physical buttons, you can't feel for them and likely have to look at the setting rather than just feel a physical dial turn while keeping your eyes on the road. It was also laggy to the point of being unsure if it registered a touch, which is frustrating. I was more willing to overlook this, but the rest of the family was not so generous and the car became a pass.
Subaru continues to remain under powered even with this battery. And keep in mind it will be much heavier with a battery. This can't and won't compete with Toyota and Honda in the states.
Now if Subaru could just hire a designer that could design a vehicle that is not the ugliest, most boring looking crap on the road they would be worth buying ! BRZ is the only good looking vehicle they have made in years !
I wanted to chime in as a 2016 Rav4 Hybrid owner. It was the first Rav4 Hybrid, with a 2.5L NA engine (Atkinson Cycle) and similar specs. The car has been absolutely bullet-proof, zero maintenance in 8 years other than oil changes, tire rotations. Its taken us through deep snow storms and ski cabins (unplowed), with all-weather tires (goodyears) on its pretty basic AWD. This Subaru hybrids have very similar specs, but fix two areas. One is range on a single tank of gas - this is a huge deal as it means we dont have to fill up as frequently and makes for more off-road excursions away from gas stations. The other is a mechanical AWD system, which is superior to Toyota's as far as grip and offroad performance is concerned (maybe taking a small efficiency hit). I am seriously eyeing trading the Rav 4 hybrid with Crosstrek hybrid with this specs. 200+ hybrid HP is going to wake that little car up and ground clearance is also more vs Rav4! The only negative is its smaller. I dislike the dorky look of the Forester and Outback so thats a non-starter for me personally - but beauty is in the eye of the..lol
The question is, how much longer will the battery last after the battery warranty expires?
Predicted battery lifetime is 12-15 years.
Will the cost replacing the hybrid battery nullify 12-15 years of fuel savings? Most likely.
@@TractshunThis IS a Vehicle that I'm Willing to Wait for, 🇺🇲⛽️🇨🇦Assuming IT Keeps the Fuel ⛽️ Tank Size & Ground Clearance [All Weather tires]. Boston MA🇺🇲
@Tractshun fair question. I dont know but doubt it. The NiMh batteries can be refreshed. Also, hybrids save on brakes as well, transmission service and last but not least the power is much smoother and stronger. Its a worthy trade to be honest, for the very reasonable uncharge.
@@TractshunYou can create a simple model to answer this question. Can even simulate fuel price variability.
@@sunnyvalentino If brakes are designed properly, they seem to last a long time. I just did the rear brakes on my '20 Forester at 95K miles. I still had plenty of pad left to go over 100K miles. The fronts had more than double the pad of the rear so I'm still using the factory pads. I've never had a vehicle where the pads lasted this long.
I am glad that Subaru went with the direction I was hoping them to go for: electric motor supplementing Symmetrical AWD. this makes much more sense than trying to shove Toyota's Atkinson Cycle hybrid system into a boxer engine. Hope they are successful to the point that frees up the CAFE limitation for Subaru to build the STi that the VB gen deserves so much.
I've been waiting to buy a daily car as well. While Cresstrek Wilderness is nice, I am waiting to see how this new hybrid system is going to work out.
Kurt, love your content, I'm a long time subscriber. Can you please adjust your video editing software to minimize your face so we can see more of the great images and spreadsheets you show? Half the time they are impossible to read on a small screen when your photo takes up almost half the screen. Thank you in advance for the adjustments.
Thanks for this Kirk. I've been a Subaru lover since our first Outback in 1996. We currently have a 2011 Outback which was the 2nd year for the CVT which gave significantly better mileage than manual or ancient 4 speed auto. We have been waiting for Subaru to come with a hybrid for a looonng time.
I think they really upped their game with the Wilderness variants, except for mileage, So here's hoping they bring a new Wilderness Forester with the hybrid in 2025. Thankfully, our 2011 Outback has been great but we can only wait so long,
Just was at the local Subaru dealer today and the sales guy told me they expect hybrid Foresters in 4 months. We'll see.
I attended the LA Auto Show a few days ago. A Subaru spokeswoman told the audience the Forester hybrid will be in the dealership lots in the summer of 2025. The base model will start in the low $30k range. She doesn't believe it will have a spare tire. Only a tire repair kit.
Looking all over the planet for this... Does the new Next-Gen transaxle have a CVT belt/chain? I'm hoping Subaru goes from the shortest lasting transmissions to the longest. I have 3 Toyotas with the eCVT and they are the greatest transmissions ever made!!!
There’s no reason why the new Forester shouldn’t have 215 hp - 230 ft/lb torque and get 38 mpg. We have a ‘24 Forester Touring and it’s great except it’s underpowered. The added power with electric motors would help with acceleration & NVH improvement of not having to run the engine wide open to get it up to speed.
Exactly! We he said 205 HP total I was very underwhelmed. Heck, the Toyota 2.5L by its self has 205 HP. Like you said…the new forester should have at least 220hp -that would solve the acceleration problems.
Even at 205hp, the hybrid added torque would feel noticeably better.@@matthewjohnson1211
System Power Output is just 180PS.
Are there concerns about the many times the engine will start and stop? In terms of dry starts or is there a way to keep the engine oiled so the multi starts will not be dry starts?
Great video, good if the Crosstek will have +- 200hp, and a 1.1kwh battery, the Forester could have a larger battery of 1.3 +-, and around 240hp combined, to have a relatively better weight-power ratio.
The Crosstrek is sold in Australia as a conventional boxer car and as a mild hybrid e-boxer. For your comparison the mild e-boxer uses a 2 litre petrol engine with a small electric motor. Numbers are petrol engine 110kw and 196Nm and electric motor 12.3kw and 66Nm. I think the battery is about 0.6kw capacity. These combine for a best fuel efficiency (highway and urban) of 6.5l/100km compared to the conventional engined Crosstrek with combined fuel economy of 7.2l/100km . No one driving it however ever gets this low a number. What has been announced will improve the e-boxer immensely. We are expected to get the Forester with the new e-boxer arrangement in mid 2025 direct from Japan. I assume the e-boxer Crosstrek will follow soon after as the Forester is the big seller amongst Subarus in Australia.
Isn't there an option for Diesel Subaru in Oz and other countries? A flat-four diesel is an interesting engine indeed!
Subaru diesel versions deleted as per most other manufacturers. Kia is still selling diesel Sportage but others have opted to develop hybrids and delete diesels.
@@erictrinklein4408No diesels in Europe either, and in the UK specifically (not sure about the rest of Europe) we currently only get the eBoxer mild-hybrid on the Crosstrek and Forester, so the full-hybrid is definitely a welcome addition. The Forester is due to launch in the spring, but not sure when the Crosstrek will arrive.
Subaru invited tons of car journalists for their showdown of ehev Crosstrek. What made it unique was the setup. The test course was summer gelende with steep updowns and muddy truck. This tells where Subaru's focus is: they never sacrifice their AWD capabilities. Many of the journalists said that the torque and acceleration was great. Hope we can see one soon in us.
Subaru has one of the best AWD systems on the market and do pretty well in off-road and snow/icy roadway conditions. I understand vehicles like this (SUV, 4x4s, ...) typically have very poor aerodynamics and really suffer at highway speed. This is a major factor limiting their mpg. Still, I also believe in trying to make things as good as possible. My hope is they are somehow able to optimize their Cd for high speed, yet keep their off-road capabilities. Lose some of the silly plastic cladding, maybe have speed sensitive adjustable front air dam, maybe even a speed sensitive adjustable suspension that lowers the car at high speed. I know, this would cost too much, but I can dream!
IMO, based on the little knowledge I have about hybrid systems, Subaru should have gone with a smaller gas engine, a larger electric motor with a lager battery pack. They also need to add a 4WD lock to make sure power is sent to the rear for going offroad vs just using their existing fluid/clutch system to send power to the rear.
I think Subie is smarter than You........Much planning goes into these...............Paul
And kinda reminds Me of non-Pilots trying to explain aircraft accidents......Paul.....retired ATP
Any word on whether it has a spare tire? I'm guessing no.
Crosstrek hybrid does _not_ (have a spare)because that's where the battery is at vs. under the back seat and losing storage capacity. I would guess the Forester will be the same.
Kirk, Good luck to the early adopters in Japan.
Love Subaru developing a hybrid. The one issue that has kept be away from them in the gas mileage. If they can get it into the 30’s I will be in the market. I was considering an AWD Camry, but I would rather get a hatchback or station wagon.
I get 36-42 mpg in my 2018 crosstrek
I average 30 mpg in my 19’ wrx mixed driving, Subarus seem to do better then their rated numbers
@@christopherkeene3647 Only rated 25-28 all around so you must be a hyper-miler
Personally I would rather have the Crosstrek first instead of the Forester. Much prefer the Crosstrek.
@KirkKreifels Just caught this. Great video! Have you seen any Japanese reviews of the Crosstrek Hybrid yet?
Other questions for the future:
- Spare tire?
- Which Lithium-ion battery chemistry are they using? NMC? LFP? LFP is heavier but performs better (i.e. actually functions) in below freezing temps.
- Engine conditioning: does the engine always come on immediately when starting the car to warm itself up, circulate engine oil, etc? What steps (if any) has Subaru taken to ready the FB25 for frequent start/stop duty?
Nissan must bring the e-power hybrid system here and apply it to the kicks, murano and rogue. That would boost their sales
They’re so cheap so it’ll be a while
Epower is an all-series hybrid, so it isn’t really fit for bigger models. What they will do is use Mitsubishi’s PHEV system instead, like what they are doing for Rogue
Nissan should go bankrupt and be out of business for their shitty cars and trans. So cheap and poor engineering. The only car that’s good is probably the gtr but then again it’s outdated inside and looks the same for over a decade. Then dealer messed up the Z by overpricing it when it isn’t worth that much and sales dropped bc nobody wants one. They just don’t put in good time and effort and money into their cars. Mazda Honda Toyota and Lexus are far better Japanese manufacturer
@@Blank00The European Nissan X-Trail, which is same car that you call the Nissan Rogue, has an ePower option with either FWD or AWD, so there’s no reason why it couldn’t in North America.
@ the E power is not optimized for highways. Honda’s hybrid is basically the same as E power, but it has clutches that make highway driving more efficient
I know that Subaru is using Toyota technology and components but I can't figure out which toyota system this is most like. Kirk, are you able to clarify? thanks
The GS450h and the LS600h
Sorry if I missed it but does this use an e-CVT like Toyota and Honda or is it a typical belt CVT?
Also would the next outback get this powertrain eventually?
The 2 motor-generator series parallel configuration indicates an e cvt.
Is Subaru’s hybrid engine an Atkinson cycle?
Yes it will be.
Does it use Subaru's Lineartronic cvt or Toyota's ecvt?
ECVT, as stated in the video.
Subaru are certainly going to increase sales of the Forester in the UK once the hybrid comes out - it launches in spring 2025 apparently - because Toyota UK has just pulled the RAV4 HEV from the UK market, so it will now only be available in PHEV.
I found out when I tried to order a RAV4 HEV last week. Toyota might have done me a favour though as the AWD system is better in the Subaru and I don’t mind that fuel consumption could be a bit lower than the RAV4. I’d only discounted the mild-hybrid Forester because of the much high fuel consumption and emissions, and the full-hybrid system should help with both those things.
Yes!!! Love this coverage. I am still holding out for a Plug-In Hybrid version again with ~30-50 miles of range. That would be amazing :) But the "strong Hybrid" Trek looks great.
Yes I'm waiting for a PHEV with 50+ electric miles. Our 4 year old current Honda Clarity still provides 40+ EV miles, I just want a bit more.
I have wanted a plug in for Years...I thought........But if You charge to full, The regen won't work.....Computer cannot allow that.......But the onboard natural charge while driving will keep you 60----80% and still allow regen......To Me, The real value to electric is to have regen..............Paul
The reviews (recent) I saw of the new Forester e-Boxer (hybrid) in Europe shows the vehicle with no spare tire which is a concern and unsure how this will work in Wilderness editions. It is my hope the new Outback can accommodate the hybrid drivetrain AND provide a spare tire while the Forester uses a tire repair kit.
People doing serious off-roading could always stick a spare on the roof, that’s what I’d do.
We’ll see how it goes. I’ve noticed the last few years build quality seems to be down with Subaru. Our 21 Ascent has not impressed me with its overall build quality and the loaner outback’s (new with less than 5k miles) have had similar suspension noise and build quality impressions.
My observation as well. Quite a few coworkers and friends have purchased new Subarus since 2021 or so. The appeal being price for AWD and storage during ski season here in Colorado. Time will tell if the drivetrain is fine, but the interiors are all hard plastic and very poorly upholstered leathers or fabric liners. All of them have so many rattles and creaks. At 2 years old they sound just like my old 13 year old crumby Ford that was $14K brand new, $18K today adjusted for inflation.
@@derringera it’s really sad to see it. My previous Subaru’s held up far better over their life. Our Ascent has been to the shop more than the last 3 new cars we’ve owned, 2 of those being Fords. I don’t foresee it leaving us stranded, but a lot of annoyances for such a new car. The CVT has felt off for quite some time and whines like a bad power steering pump, even compared to loaners with the 2.4 turbo. But it hasn’t “failed”, so Subaru won’t replace it.I really wished we would have gotten a Highlander Hybrid over the Ascent. Live and learn.
Now this us automotive news i can get behind! Thanks for the breakdown Kirk
LOL that thing still has a long drive shaft connecting the front to the rear. The Toyota hybrid AWD system does NOT have that shaft because the rear wheel are driven directly by the electric motor powered by the hybrid battery. Toyota calls that rear differential/motor the rear transmission. I've been a Toyota tech since 1998 and that system has been around since the 2006 Highlander hybrid AWD and I have never seen any problem with that system.
Pros AND cons of each approach, and the video touched on those. The Subaru system can put (I believe) up to 90% of the power to the rear axle when called for. Imagine cresting a very steep dirt or snowy hill where the front wheels have no meaningful traction. The electric motor in the rear axle on the Toyota isn't going to have the power to get the vehicle up and over the hill on its own. Subaru's existing AWD system is better than most, and they made the right call sticking with it here despite it definitely being a little less efficient and more expensive than the Toyota eAWD approach.
I wonder how much the Forester will cost,,,, I love my Subaru 2012 forester. So, I have been waiting. Some say don't get one the first year they come out. Hmmm
Probably a good thing that Subaru has been 'late' to the EV party; ie. it seems Hybrid is the more preferred option for many new buyers, and Subaru hasn't wasted valuable resources in going down the EV-only path. There's clearly a ton of interest in how Subaru's AWD will integrate and behave in these new vehicles.
Begging for an Outback hybrid.
I want a Outback hybrid in the current model. I don’t like how boxy they say the next Outback is going to be.
The 2.5 Subaru hybrid seems to be more comparable with the 2.0 Toyota hybrid than the 2.5
It sounds like Honda will be sharing a lot of components across all of its 2025 Civics. That has to be a plus on both parts pricing and mechanic familiarity.
No, it doesn’t. Great channel though.
We will see
@@NomenClature-o8s It basically is a Toyota hybrid with a Subaru engine and AWD system. It will be better performing than any AWD hybrid in Toyota's line-up.
Yep, Toyota designed the hybrid functionality so it'll be about the same.
@@kiefershanks4172it’ll have less range because boxer engines aren’t that efficient compared to inline 4 cylinders. Also Toyota current NA 4 cylinder family have 40% thermal efficiency, which Subaru’s flat 4 doesn’t get anywhere near that.
@@tails300 They litteraly said they will have a range of 621 miles
Have a 2020 Crosstrek Plug In Hybrid. Ask us questions since it sounds like the new hybrid will have a similar system as you said in this video.
Differences seem to be engine differences (2.0l vs. 2.5l), more cargo space (and lower weight) in the upcoming hybrid, but little/no EV-only range.
This feels like more of a 'hybrid default' transition akin to what Toyota is doing with their lineup.
Sounds like it should compare well to the 2.0L hybrid system in the Toyota Corolla Cross Hybrid. A little more power and a little less fuel economy. That would put it probably between Toyota's 2.0L and 2.5L hybrids by my guess.
please be good please be good 🙏 had a WRX Sti a few years ago and the awd was great on snow, now I need an suv to go on remote often deformed mountain roads and my current car is way too low, I also need a hitch for the 1st time in my life I went to see the 2024 forester but the european e-boxer is atrocious bad mpg bad emissions (yearly tax here can go from 200$ to 2000$/year depending on them) slowest in class I sadly left without one, I hike 10-15hrs if I can skip refueling on the way back home middle of the night it would be great
So the 2025 Forestet Hybrid will not have this system, and we probably hold on to buying for at least another year?
Latest whisper is it'll come mid-2025 as a 2025 model.
beat Toyota/ Honda in what way? definitely not MPG, but i prefer a full AWD as opposed to eAWD. i am curious to see how the EV mode works plus if there is any regenbraking
I like the Toyota pricing. Hybrid does not cost much more than the all gas model
Let's hope the forester hybrid isn't priced to the moon
The original Chevy Volt before it was release was going to act like a generator to charge the battery and not power the wheel. It could not charge the battery fast enough so Chevy had the ICE power the wheels. I don't think the technology is there yet and I work on the semi side of auto for controllers, etc....
The ice doesn’t power the wheels in the Chevy
@@smath5841 Under certain conditions the ICE will power the wheel through the clutches etc.... It is connected but not directly like a normal ICE car.
I’m planning to buy a Toyota Camey 2025 hybrid, but I am really worried about the life of the battery and how much does cost to replace it! Can't make a decision
Toyota’s hybrid batteries are warrantied for 10 years or 150k miles. To expand the life of your hybrid battery, do not block the cooling intake vent and keep that hybrid battery filter clean. The Car Care Nut channel has a lot of information on Toyota’s Hybrids
Toyota hybrid is bullet proof! Just don’t leave it sitting for more than a couple weeks to keep the battery charged!
The batteries last longer than you would expect and if you are in a big city, you can probably find a service to install a refurbished battery for cheap ($1K - $2K) if needed when the car gets old. The battery thing for hybrids is completely overblown.
How about a Nissan ePower Versa or Sentra?
Hard to say. USA won't get ePower until its next gen comes out in 2026-2027
How does Subaru care about HP. The current outback has 180 hp. They need to get that over 200 without turbo.
Does it still use a belt-driven CVT?
No, Toyota eCVT. Gears and motors
Subarus CVTs are chain driven.
Subaru is chain and are solid minus the selenoids in them
@@JonProce the hybrid has planetary gear system
It sounds like Subaru took the eCVT from the GS450h and LS600h and adapted it to their specific needs.
At least 6.3L/100km... Hmmmmm. Not amazing but for an AWD vehicle it is really good. I would expect to easily be able to achieve 5.8L/100km if you drive conservatively. The thing that can't really be expressed with written word is the driving experience which would be esssentially a Prius with Subaru AWD. Instant torque with very linear power delivery. It will be so much better than the current CVT. I think this powertrain will make Subaru much, much better to drive. They were smart to start with the Crosstrek over the Forester given how popular the Crosstrek is. A Toyota eCVT hybrid Crosstrek is definitely on my list of next vehicles. One of my family vehicles is a Prius and it is a tank. That drivetrain coupled to full-time AWD probably feels great. Not fast but efficient, responsive and really great to live with.
Tempted to wait for a hybrid Crosstrek , or if it takes too long I'll buy a Crown Signia
@@mirceamunteanu4791 If you want a better AWD system I would wait for the Subaru. eAWD is not the same and not nearly as capable.
@@kiefershanks4172 true , but I do like how well equipped the Signia comes, but way more $$$$.
In 2012, I needed a new car and it was between the Legacy(32 mpg) and a US VW Passat TDI(40 mpg). In the end I went with the TDI which is a great car. Now 12 years later, no more TDIs in the US, so I was thinking of a Legacy again. Then came the 2025 Camry AWD which will get 2x the mileage of the Legacy. The downside is that the Camry will have an electric motor driving the back wheels, so it really can't go everywhere like a Legacy would. Now, there is no future for legacy and there is no Impreza Sedan, so it is possible that Subaru will lose again. I can not live with a forester, so the crosstrek could be a possibility, but will not be here in time.
Curious why the CRV hybrid is faster despite having lower hp/tq than the rav4? Looks like it might just be lighter by about 100lbs? Or due to a better 2 motor system? 7.5s is just quite slow so not so appealing and no way it's gonna have the reliability of the proven toyota system or even honda.
It’s how Honda’s hybrid system is designed. Honda’s system relies heavily on the electric motor and the engine is connected to a generator. So the CRV Hybrid has an almost EV like feeling. Honda does add a lockup clutch (or 2 for the CRV) that engages at certain speeds because there are times where its more efficient to have the engine drive the wheels.
I'm surprised that with its greater size and weight, the Forester wasn't the first Subaru to benefit from this new more-powerful and fuel-efficient hybrid system, rather than squeezing the components into the smaller and already more-efficient Crosstrek.
I'm with you on this.. but maybe outside the US, smaller vehicles sell better? Just a guess.
Yeah I would assume it's because the Crosstrek sells more than the Forester.
Subaru Japan still has the prior gen Forester and they don't sell as many of their larger models, so its not a huge surprise. They went with volume first there in Japan - that's the Impreza/Crosstrek/Levorg line.
I dont fully understand how it beats Toyota seeing it uses the same system. The only major difference is that Subaru has a physical driveshaft going to the rear axle.
Any news on the 2026 redesign?
whats the battery size?
1.1kw
13:49 you are comparing which cars with the 0-60???
The Toyota is faster when comparing Camry vs Accord lol.
So not sure what’s the point of that statistic
If the Hybred Crosstrek can be had for $40g...I'll have one......More than that, I'll keep the present $33k Gas limited.....Paul
We looked at an Outback, but it was the mileage that pushed us to the competition. If Subaru also puts buttons and knobs back for climate control, seat heaters, etc...(we wont buy a car with the giant touchscreen for everything approach), a Subaru hybrid could be our next vehicle. We're not ready to go BEV, but each car we purchase has to be better in mileage than the one it replaces.
I agree. As much as I like the Subaru cars, the poor mpg is why I won't buy one. I live in Los Angeles where gas prices are the highest in the nation. Next year gas prices in California are expected to increase significantly. I'll wait until the Forester hybrid shows up before I buy. And I don't like that giant touchscreen either.
That’s a lot of power for a Forester
Laughs in Forester XT. 😂
hybrid WRX in the near future maybe?
2026? I'd have to buy one in Japan and have it shipped to me stateside? 😥
If you buy one in Japan it would be a right-hand drive. 😉
MotorMix claims that the engine will be a 260 HP turbocharged hybrid engine. This is not evident from your presentation? So I wonder what it is going to be like?
Turbo hybrid? It's possible but that's not what Japan has at the moment
Expect to see the Ascent hybrid to be built in Toyotas plant
Finally, now im jusy waiting for the Outback!
oh so it's not going to be built in japan? That's too bad
lol what? If anything I thought Subaru was utilizing Toyota’s hybrid technology on their Boxers, didn’t know they were doing their own thing
They are. My understanding is that its an adaptation of the system the LS600h and GS450h was using.
Bro, 35-40mpg on an outback or crosstrek. Sign me up to replace my 2011 legacy 3.6
I get 36-42 mpg in my 2018 crosstrek, but I drive SLOW and coast to a stop
The Crosstrek Hybrid will probably also have a 20% bump in price.
still a boxer.. so does that mean the same old carbon buildup?
Does Mazda and Subaru pay a premium to Toyota to use their technology? If so I guess the cost well be passed on to the consumer making them more expensive than a toyota/lexux product.
I haven’t heard of Mazda & Subaru paying Toyota, probably because Toyota is part owner of both companies.
oh so they're doing the lithium battery, not nickel hydride? That's too bad, less safe
Subaru is the Windows Explorer of the car world 😅 Wov, finally some news. Hopefully they also hire an actual designer as well one day 👍🏼
Subaru, if you want to create mega sales and produce the Baja with your symmetrical, all-wheel-drive and a hybrid.
Kirk is the Electric Viking of hybrids!!! Or is Sam the Kirk of EVs? Discuss!!
I'm exited to see a full hybrid Crosstrek.
Is it Atkinson cycle?
Not mentioned but surely it is.
15:40 Subaru will be lucky to achieve their previous target (40% HEV & BEV). The new target is poppycock. My guess is that by 2030, Subaru will be 60% ICE, 30% HEV, and 10% BEV.
9:43 What’s kind of funny is that Kirk uses a calculator off screen to calculate the MPG when he’s on an Excel spreadsheet.
💾
Hey Subaru, make a hybrid WRX and take my money.
I bet you'd like that with a CVT too?
@ytj22 there is really no point too gears anymore with hybrids and ev's modern tech is evolving past manual transmissions
@bluesunrise2323 I didn't say anything about a manual transmission, but Subaru CVTs feel horrible to drive. To each their own I guess.
If I can get Forester with 35mpg real world I have found my next car.
Very good !
How in the heck could the Suby with mechanically linked AWD match the fuel economy of the Toyota Rav4 Hybrid with eAWD? Seems unlikely at best. It seems the curb weight of the two vehicles will be nearly identical as a Rav4 Hybrid is only like 400 lbs more than a Crosstrek currently. If mechanical AWD can match eAWD, why would Toyota not adopt this tech that they helped develop into the other million hybrids they sell each year? More parts to wear out and more complication? It seems like the parent company Toyota would at least add as an option for those who want a higher performing AWD system. ALSO, maybe not as relevant with the Subaru AWD, but at least Toyota needs to add a function to lock AWD in all of these vehicles with AWD. Hyundai/Kia has that button! Trail mode is not sufficient and also there is no AWD monitor view in the Toyota hybrids other than the Highlander and presumably the Grand Highlander. That is useful in tough conditions.
my bad, it doesnt decouple, it transfers torque really proficiently
sounds like higher maintenance requirements and costs than toyota..
Gas mileage may be equal to Toyota SUV hybrids because Subaru have a smaller cross section.
15 km/l.....wow now subaru's have normal car consumption...
Just yesterday, I saw a video on the new Kia Sportage hybrid. Based on what I saw, Subaru is just copying what Kia is doing..
Can’t say I’m a fan of Subaru… but I quite like the crosstrek, and I’d like to see these things do well. It wouldn’t hold a candle to my v60, and I wouldn’t pick one over a cx-50 or crown signia… but if my sis’ Corolla ever kicks the bucket (and she went through 2 in the pandemic, from black ice and a red light runner) crosstrek hybrid would probs make my shortlist of recommended replacements, since “compact” sedans have gotten so big, and she likes her wheelbase small…
Subaru isn't going to be BEV by any date they can't even give away the solterra
Unsure durable reliable a car just transitioning to hybrid USA. I stick w gas & go hybrid after its 3rd yr.
A CRV is way bigger than the Crosstrek
battery under cargo area.. oh no, does that mean no spare tire? Ok, i'm out. No spare tire on a wilderness car 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Nobody in North America will get their hands on a Subaru hybrid until 2026. Even then you will have this stupid 1 year wait list that Toyota is doing to ppl in Canada. Those cars on are U.S. dealer lots but not on Canadian soil.
Finally Subaru gets a hybrid!🥳The one problem with Subarus was their poor MPG.
I get 30 mpg average on my crosstrek,driving 90% in the city !
Everyone copies Toyota except Honda which does its own way.
Hyundai and Kia have their own hybrid tech. Ford's is similar to Toyotas though
Subaru uses Toyotas Hybrid System.
I started to get excited looking forward to these, but then realized Subaru will likely stick to their garbage outdated potato-powered infotainment system. If they upgrade that though I’d love a forester hybrid.
The 11.6" infotainment was a big disappointment for my family on a recent Crosstrek testdrive. Some of the most important climate controls are in the touchscreen so the driver or passenger has to take of their gloves/mitts to adjust it, which is not nice in Canada's climate. Even though the temp control is physical buttons, you can't feel for them and likely have to look at the setting rather than just feel a physical dial turn while keeping your eyes on the road. It was also laggy to the point of being unsure if it registered a touch, which is frustrating. I was more willing to overlook this, but the rest of the family was not so generous and the car became a pass.
the big thing that will let it down is the Terrible CVT they love to use
It's a great new, but I'm not going to buy the first year of production. I love my 2024 Outback touring so far.
Nah!overheat cvt🤮
Subaru needs to improve their ugly outdated interior & exterior design 😅
Subaru continues to remain under powered even with this battery. And keep in mind it will be much heavier with a battery. This can't and won't compete with Toyota and Honda in the states.
Now if Subaru could just hire a designer that could design a vehicle that is not the ugliest, most boring looking crap on the road they would be worth buying ! BRZ is the only good looking vehicle they have made in years !