M1 Garand Shooting Commercial Ammo-Safely!
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- My M1 Garand shooting commercial .30-06 hunting ammunition using the Schuster Adjustable Gas Plug. The adjustable gas port allows for modern ammo to be fired safely in the M1 Garand accounting for the extra pressure placed on the internals of your rifle. Due to the age and unknown history of these rifles especially on the secondary market, extreme caution should be taken in this procedure.
Before performing this procedure you should have your rifle inspected by a knowledgeable, certified gunsmith to ensure the rifle functions and operates safely.
I am not a qualified gunsmith or expert I am just sharing the way I do this in accordance with the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) recommendations and guidelines and Schuster’s recommendations in the included instructions.
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The M-1 Garand 30.06 is a work of art
It’s a great old gun to have and I’m fortunate to have one. Thanks for coming by!
GENERAL GEORGE PATTON SAID THAT THE M 1 RIFLE WAS THE BEST BATTLEFIELD IMPLEMENT EVER DEVISED , PING - PING - PING YOU KNOW THAT THING !!!!!
In my opinion it’s finicky with different types of ammunition 😅and worth it as a shooters rifle
You can use the trigger guard to unscrew the gas plug. My grandpa was a Korea Vet and he told me that's how he was taught
Excellent tip. I hadn’t heard that before! Thanks for coming by!
never knew that! nice!
Thank you! That's neat to know!
How far did they unscrewed to gas plug.
The military used the low pressure because it was cheaper. cmp says you can use whatever ammo along as it's under 180 grain
Yea I got that email from the CMP that advised using under 180 grains. The conversation from folks about damaging the gun makes me worried though, and I just figured better safe than sorry. Thanks for coming by!
I just inherited my grandfather's. I grew up shooting that rifle of his, been told my whole life that it was mine when he went. We reloaded and it was my job to pick up the brass. That old man stock piled so much ammo for me to share his legacy with my children and unborn grandchildren. I got one box that says no shoot for how rare the batch was. Got alot of AP too lol but this video is gonna help me conserve the ammo he left me. Thank you.
You’re welcome! That’s a good story thanks for sharing. I have a pistol from my grandfather and it came with a few boxes of ammo. I saved them for several years but I concluded that in the end, he would’ve wanted me to shoot it not let it sit and collect dust. Of course everyone’s grandfather and ammo situation is different. Thanks for watching and thanks for coming by!
The Garand Collectors Association along with the CMP did a huge article on this in one of there magazines a few years back. Basically explaining commercial ammo is perfectly fine to shoot out of a M1 as long as the bullet weight isn’t over 180 grains. The need for a gas plug isn’t necessary and they recommend just replacing the ope rod spring and lubricating it properly and you’ll be fine. Just stay away from anything over 180 grains and and any super hot ammo. If it makes you feel any better the guy that’s wrote the article was a USMC Match Armourer. Think it was volume 34 of 2019.
Thank you for sharing. This seems to be a controversial topic with several opinions and widely varying conclusions. And I can promise I am not an armorer, gunsmith, or firearms expert of any kind so I wasn’t sure at all. My thought was better safe than sorry to protect the investment. Again thanks for sharing the info and thanks for coming by!
@@cornfromajar3222 no worries. I considered the gas plug as well when I bought mine but ended up buying a case of PPU M2 Ball ammo so it’s all I really shoot.
I'm not convinced. I loaded some very mild 150 gr BT loads last week using W760, as I have a lot of it. According to the Hogdon Data Center, it should have been a 40,500 CUP load. That's 9500 CUP under the CMP max recommended pressure. I've been shooting a lot of 1968 FN Ball ammo and know how it feels. My load was violent. Lots more recoil. Lots more vibration. The gun didn't like it. I have been doing some loads with W748 that are accurate and mellow on the gun.
There is a lot of surplus ammo out there that you simply can't know how well it was stored. You might be shooting some ammo that is spicier than you bargained for. I have also ran some PPU through my M1 that caused some slam fires and I could tell that the pressures were not consistent. I'm sorry but I can't fully trust surplus ammo or cheap new manufactured "Garand safe" ammo from eastern Europe. To each his own but I know that the plugs are $40 but a new stock and op rod are a lot more.
Can you imagine caring about whether a FUC@ING BATTLE RIFLE can shoot bullets?
Have we gone full imbecile?
Please link any article where a Garand blew apart shooting ANY 30/06 ammo.
I’ll wait.
Wtf?
It’s a BATTLE RIFLE.
Not a tampon.🤯
I'm 60 and I have been shooting mine since I was 12 with whatever ammo fancied me or was on sale with no problems. Maybe I've been flirting with disaster but so far no problems other than various levels of recoil. Mine was my great uncle's service rifle in WWII that he purchased on the way out of the army, sold to my grandad when he was hurting for money and made it's way to me. Other than cleaning it regularly I haven't needed to do any repairs for maintenance. It's in the same condition that it was in when my uncle killed his last Jap with it. The last 20 years though I have been exclusively shooting my handloads out of it and mostly load to the old military specs for plinking due to ammo prices but I have an assortment of hotter and heavier loads I use for hunting. Even for an old beat up war rifle that thing is the most accurate rifle I own when it comes to iron sight shooting. I won a couple of NRA shooting competitions with it in the 80's and I was up against rich technical shooters with fancy bull barreled bolt action rifles and precision handloads which I wasn't into doing at the time. I was just shooting some cheap mil spec ball rounds that I bought at gun shows.
Thanks for sharing that’s a great story and some real history to follow with your rifle. Mine, other than telling when it was built and when I bought it from the CMP, I don’t really know anything else about it. It’s great to have a backstory with it, in my own opinion.
I have had he same M1 Garand for 40 years. I shoot what ever I buy with no issues too. I'm 70 buy the way.
There is a guy who did a lot of testing and most hunting ammo is about like m1 ball and AP m2. It’s fine to use as long as it’s well greased and your springs are not worn out
As long as your not running something crazy hot, your springs are good, and it’s greased, your probably fine.
Bloke any proof evidence to back ur statements bucko
very good explanation and demonstration of the Schuster gas plug... Back in 1989 I picked up a Garand for my Dad (Korean War vet) ... this was his deer rifle until ~ 2015 when he gave up hunting... Dad fed it a diet of Remington 180gr high velocity soft points ~200 rounds of this down the barrel in the time he had the rifle... with the original gas plug.... The Garand is now in my vault with a Schuster Plug .... the op rod is still fine and functional. Dad of course knew very well how to maintain the rifle ... you might say it was drilled into him...
Great story, thanks for sharing and thanks for coming bye!
Any special oil or grease your dad recommended for the garand. I've seen and heard all kinds of options
@@JamesWhite-tg4kw Nothing special... we did not discuss rifle maintenance much. Dad had a Hoppe's cleaning kit... my guess is he followed what he learned as a GI. The only grease Dad had at the house was some general purpose white lithium and Vaseline. I will be following the well documented recommended GI maintenance. I do know he was particular about keeping the chamber clean & dry.
*Enjoyed video immensely*
*Called CMP Custom Shop to place order for 308 Garand*
*Only negative was their installing adjustable gas block*
*Your video clarified any concerns with DIY installation*
*Thank you for the information*
I’ve never seen a 308 Garand in person. I would assume that it’s the same process but I can’t say for certain without seeing it myself. Good luck and thanks for coming by!
Thank you. I was completely unaware of the importance of adjusting the gas plug. I was under the (dumb) impression every 30-06 was the same. You Sir have saved many Garands out there :)
Well thank you. I had to learn from someone too, after I bought mine. He has a channel as well - atlanticproducts. But again, I’ve never seen anything from any ammo manufacturer or the US Army cautioning against using commercial ammo, although If you google “Granad commercial ammo” there are many articles on the subject and many opinions (just look at the various comments on this video).
In my own average joe opinion, anything to protect my old rifle is fine by me, even with the minor inconvenience of tuning the plug. Thanks for coming by!
There is no need for it and yes pretty much all commercial ammo is fine
ruclips.net/video/UOSdswZHJUc/видео.html
I have purchased this gas plug but never used it. I've found that new, M2 ball "replica" .30-06 by Privi Partisan costs about the same as commercial .30-06 hunting ammo and is plentiful.
The M1 Garand is actually rated to safely fire M1 ball ammunition, which is spec'd at 175gr, muzzle velocity of 2647, muzzle energy of 2675 ft/lbs.
If you can find commercial hunting ammo that is within those specifications, you really don't need to bother with the gas plug.
That may, or may not be correct. It's the pressure curve created by the chemistry of the powder, bullet weight and jump that are the concern. 50,000 CUP is what CMP states. They make no reference to ballistics, whatsoever.
As far as I know, and I’m no chemist or Garand expert, I felt like any thing I could do to protect my investment I wanted to do. I want one of my sons to get this rifle one day, and there is just enough question and mystery involved to buy a plug. The opinions are very mixed. Thanks for coming by!
I'd love to find that Privi Partisan ammo, but have never seen it offered anywhere.
I'm loading DM-42 & SL-53 brass that I got at a gunshow 40yrs ago. Best brass ever. I like this adjustable gas plug. Good to see a vid showing how it works.
Thanks for coming by!
I too was not educated properly on the gas plug's exact purpose, but thanks to you I do now......mucho bueno
Well I tried to explain it as easy as I could there are a lot of opinions both ways whether it’s needed or not. I just want to protect my investment. Thanks for coming by!
Glad u made this video i ordered that gas plug from schuster 2 weeks ago still havent gone out to test my 1941 m1 because the weather in utah is snowing rn cant wait to get it out there!
Honestly I made this not even knowing if anyone would watch. Mine is a 1943 and the first time I took the plug out it was alot of work, it hadn't been cleaned much. Thanks for coming by!
You answered a question of mine. How to shoot hunting ammo in a Garand. Thank you for the video.
Thanks for coming by!
preciate the video just got myself an Garand 2 days ago and will invest in this gas valve
Thanks for coming by!
I'm so nervous about mine it's a 1943 winchester m1 garand. I haven't shot it or messed with it. Absolute beauty.
I hand load for all my rifles. The M-1 shoots bullet weights 147gr to 175gr at 2800/2700 fps with no problem. Intermediate burning Powders; Varget, RL-15, IMR 4895, 2520 are the best choice. IMR 4350 and a 180 bullet is asking for trouble. It has to do with pressure curves and timing. Duplicate WWII ball velocities and you will have no problems. Commercial standard velocity ammo 150/165 gr will give you no problems.
Thank you for sharing. And thanks for coming by!
Back before I knew better, I would stock up on those pre-deer season sale at Kmart, etc, when Rem/Win/Fed 30-06 ammo was on sale for $4.99 box/20. I did know to stick with 150-165gr bullets. M2 'BALL" bullet was 150gr , but the more accurate AP bullet weighed around 165 or so. The AP round was popular and widely supplied in en-bloc clips.
Man those were the days, weren’t they?
Did you ever have any issues using that?
Thanks for watching and thanks for coming by!
Very glad to have another video from v tac.
Thanks for coming by!
You don't need that aftermarket plug as long as you properly grease the rifle and make sure the recoil spring has adequate spring and a length no less than 19.5"
There seems to be a lots of discussion either way whether it is actually needed. As far as I’m concerned, better safe than sorry.
Thanks for coming by!
Thanks for the video. I’m definitely going to save it and get one of those plugs.
Thanks for coming by!
Thanks for coming by!
Shooting civilian 30-06 ammo which you said is loaded to higher pressure will damage Military Issue rifles that are not modified like yours. The damage is to the Operating Rod, which gets bent. Way back when the M1 Garand was used for Service Rifle Competition, ammo had to be loaded to specific pressure levels. The cartridge Caliber 30 M1 which was intended for the M1903 Springfield was too hot for the Garand. Thus the Ordinance Dept. developed the M2 Ball cartridge for the M1 Garand. A Match cartridge was also developed for the Garand.
That seems to be the widely accepted theory and believe me a quick scroll through comments on a video like this shows different opinions about it!
I ordered a grand gear gas plug and installed it just to air on the side of safety, and have piece of mind. If commercial ammo will bend the opp rod or not i guess would depend on who you ask ! But they say a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure !
It definitely depends on who you ask. A quick scroll through the comment section on this video will tell you the opinions vary widely. Or a quick Google search. Thank you for coming by!
Same here. Have some HV 30-06 back ups if Shtf.
Just picked up my first. Traded a Galil Ace Gen2 5.56 13" for a Springfield Armory M1 and an FN Browning model 1910 in 32 acp. I've shot Garands since I was a boy, my Dad being USMC, a gunsmith and gunshop owner, plus a .30 cal fanatic, those FALs, M14s, M1s, and AKs were life. I've fallen into the same kind of thinking. I like 5.56x45mm and even more so 5.45x39mm, and the AR, but it's just not my go to. I like my .30cals. They just seem to be more versatile whether 7.62x39 or 7.62x51. 7mm has me hooked to. It just seems to be a sweet spot, ballastically speaking.
To each their own. In his first book, the art of the deal, Donald Trump said go with your instinct, you’re generally better off sticking with what you know. Thanks for sharing and thanks for coming by!
Thank you for a well made informative video, I've been wanting to get a gas plug so that I could experiment with factory loads. Well, after watching your video, I'm going to be ordering that plug , and you make it seem easy. I'll do a follow-up video on this product... Have a great night, and thanks again. Stay safe and healthy....
Yes sir. I’m not trying to do a PSA here there seems to be a lot of opinions one way or the other on whether they are necessary or relevant. For me, anything I can do to protect my investment is fine with me. Thanks for coming by!
I read here about the gas plug from Garand Gear that you don't adjust. Any luck with them
Keep your oprod spring 'up to date', replace it if its not the correct length, no hot rod ammo, properly grease the rifle according to army specs, and go to work.
Mine actually arrived with a bad oprod spring (it had a kink) which from what I’m told is pretty common. Got that replaced and I was on my way! Thanks for coming by!
I don't care what all these shade tree experts say about the 150 grain cartridge. Read this: IMR 4895 propellant
A new cartridge was developed in 1938 that was essentially a duplicate of the old M1906 round, but loaded with IMR 4895 propellant and a new flat-based bullet that had a gilding metal jacket and a different lead alloy, and weighed 152 grains (9.85 g) instead of 150 grains (9.72 g). The 150 grain 30.06 bullet is the same bullet of World War 2 as it is today. I have fired both Military surplus and commercial ammo. There real is no difference. Anyone ammo gun powder over time will be affected by improper storage. If it is not in a dry and cool climate. The ammo will be effected and this is why you must be careful about when it was made, and where it was stored over many years.
Thanks for sharing and thanks for coming by!
Good Advice! Being afraid of damaging mine, I just load my own.
Thanks for coming by!
I enjoyed your video. I've had an M1 for several months now. I've been reloading with 150 and 168gr projectiles at 46 and 46.5 gr of IMR 4895, respectively. I also have a Lake City and HXP (greek) M2 ball. I can tell the difference between the HXP and LC. The HXP kicks a little harder and throws the brass to a different place. My loads are like the LC.
I’ve never shot HXP. I might have to look into that if I can find some, it was popular for a long time. It’s odd how different ammo kicks or ejects differently. Even with the gas plug adjusted I can tell a difference. And between how M1A handles different ammo versus the Garand. Thanks for coming by!
Hornady and Sierra both publish excellent reload data for this rifle, we use 44 grain of Hogden powder to keep muzzle velocity at 2700 FPS and within safe PSI and have excellent success with 150 grain ammo
Both of mine shot perfectly with commercial ammo - even the relatively hot Yugoslav Privi Partizan M2 ball. This stuff had large flash holes. What they really don’t like is anything with slow burning powder, which is what most heavy bullet loads have. Too much residual pressure at the gas port induces violent cycling of the operating rod. Not always though - I even shot vintage Kynoch 220gr ammo but this was probably conservatively loaded for tropical use, typical of their stuff. 4895, 4064 OK, - 4831 nope! Never did try 4350.
That gas plug looks like a great idea from a precautionary perspective. 👍🏻
This is the best explanation and breakdown on the topic yet. I wish I could have explained it that way in my video. Well said and thanks for coming by!
A few years ago I got a replacement non-adjustable plug from Garand Gear (Schuster used to also make one) to increase the gas cylinder volume. I didn’t want to mess with an adjustable plug, but only make it a little softer shooting for 168 grain handloads. I recently picked up another Garand so perhaps will give the adjustable plug a try.
Thanks for sharing and thanks for coming by!
So how to you like your new gas plug. I've been thinking about getting one so I can shoot heavier bullets. Thanks for any help 👍
@@JamesWhite-tg4kw The fact is a lot of people think that the standard setup is fine for even heavier bullets. The original M1 Garand round was 174 grains as I recall, and the rifle will handle that no problem with no damage. But I just wanted a little bit of margin of safety when shooting 168 grain or heavier bullets over the M2 ball, so that’s why I got the nonadjustable Schuster plug.
I also did end up buying the adjustable plug, but haven’t tweaked it yet with different handloads. I think either way, it’s a good upgrade to the rifle just to give you a little bit more margin of safety and more confidence when shooting anything but the standard M2 ammo.
Unfortunately, I had a Schuster gas plug installed and tuned in mine. And after about 80 rounds of S&B 180 Grain loads, the back end of the receiver blew out on me, and hit me in the eye. Thank God I was wearing eye protection.
I've since then rebuilt my rifle, and I will only stick with M2 Ball equivalent loads.
Wow that’s incredible. Glad that you are ok and it sounds like the rifle is back on its feet too. Eye pro definitely isn’t just a silly rule for no reason at the range. Thanks for sharing and thanks for coming by!
Your comment shows the importance of having a good oprod spring.
And the fact you actually adjusted it and the rifle was still destroyed shows it's not the ammo but the springs....
Sorry about your rifle
I don't hunt with my M1, so i stick with M2 Ball or the Greek HXP. There are a few commercial rounds loaded specifically for the M1. Federal i the American Eagle line, Sellier &Bellot, and Prvi Partizan (PPU). The boxes are marked "For M1 Garand"
You are correct, there are commercially available loads for the Garand. After COVID, locally and online I couldn’t find it. And at the time, even now the very basic Remington 30-06 150 was and is very cheap. Thanks for coming by!
If you can get an original cleaning rod for the M1 the T handle part has the gas plug wrench as an integral part.
I didn’t know that. Excellent tip! Thanks for sharing and thanks for coming by!
Paul Harrell used green and yellow box in a Garand when he was comparing it to the M1A, and he never specified if he was using a specialized gas plug of any kind.
Well this topic is greatly debated one way or the other. I’ve never met anyone who said their gun blew up, but I also don’t know many (count on one hand) who own a Garand. The forums out there caution against commercial ammo like it’s a sin. The CMP manual itself actually says if you shoot commercial, make sure it’s under 180 grains but never actually says don’t at all.
It’s almost like using synthetic oil in your car. Some people says it’s the best, some say it doesn’t matter.
My two cents, my Garand isn’t a throw away gun by any means and I may never be in a position to buy another so any little step I can take to protect it, I’ll do it. Thanks for coming by!
@@cornfromajar3222
Paul was using 150gr Core-Lokt and it was one of the better-performing rounds in that video.
I haven't tested it myself but he is regarded as an expert so I'd recommend his word.
Glad to be here!!
I was always told it was the heavier bullet weight of hunting ammo (over 165 gr) that would put to much pressure on the gas system of the M1 causing your op rod to bend more than it should be. Maybe it's both.
the m1 garand was designed to shoot m1 ball which was a 174gr bullet. Many people say that the garand was designed to shoot 150gr m2 ball, but this is false. M2 ball didn’t exist until after the garand was adopted into service
I’m just one person, and everyone has their own opinion especially since the military didn’t release a guide for folks to use their own ammo in the weapon.
That being said, it’s my belief after researching this, the common theory is the powder makes the difference in the WW2-era stuff versus modern ammo. As to the previous reply to your comment- yes the gun was built around a certain bullet weight. But again, ammo 70-80 years ago was loaded different. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for watching and thanks for coming by!
@@cornfromajar3222 Hi, I was told by the CMP that pretty much any commercial 30-06 150 grain up to 172 grain ammo was safe. I have been shooting Remington Core Lokt 150 grain with no problem for some time now. And Federal 30-06. Just keep your rifle cleaned and oiled and you should be fine.
The M-1 was originally designed to fire a bullet of 173-grains, since M1 Ball was in service from 1925-1937. When the army decided to switch to M2 Ball 150-grains, John C. Garand was initially against the change since his rifle had not been designed around the M2 cartridge. However, in due time, Garand solved whatever technical issues presented themselves and M2 worked fine. Most reloading manuals list loads up to 175-180 grains as being the maximum weight for use in the M-1. You could probably get away with something slightly heavier, but why risk it? These rifles work very well indeed as designed.
I got this rifle and then took it out to enjoy it, but I got Garand thumb 😢
Gotta be careful and take your time that’s for sure. I got Garand “finger” last year shooting a video on my index finger. It got caught in the bolt and my fingernail ended up falling off. It’s the real deal! Thanks for coming by!
I’m glad I found this video, I plan on doing this to Mine! Thanks for uploading this!
This is a controversial subject. A quick scroll through my comments or any Garand forum will show opinions both ways. I’m no expert, I just see it as a protection measure for such an old gun. Thanks for watching and thanks for coming by!
You can use the trigger guard to undo the gas plug
I hadn’t heard that before. Great tip! Thanks for coming by!
I didn't know about this! I was told after years of shooting without modification can bend operating rod not good.
Opinions vary. To me, I want to give my gun the best chance to outlast me so my son will inherit it. So if I have to buy a little accessory to help that, it’s what I’ll do. But people believe one way or the other it seems. Thanks for coming by!
Load a round stripped off the clip, by letting the bolt slam forward into battery. Then eject the round and look at the primer. See where the floating firing pin hit the primer? Almost, but not quite deep enough to set it off. You shoot enough commercial ammo, and someday you will get a surprise. Much sooner if you fire reloads.
M16 does the same thing, floating firing pin as well.
Thanks for coming by!
Thanks for the advice!
Just one guys opinion. And there’s several out there. Thanks for coming by!
The human body is very perceptive. I rebuild antique Harley-Davidson engines. There are technical terms, such as " plug fit" , "slip fit" and running fit that refer to the interface of two, usually cylindrical parts. These terms have physical measurements associated with them. I can feel these measurements without ever picking up a micrometer. The same goes for shooting a Garand. I can feel the difference between loads and I compare what I feel to my muscle and sensual memory of how an M2 Ball round feels. I have lots of 1968 FN ball ammo. Just shoot them, then shoot your intended load. For instance, I have a lot of W760 powder and found a load for 150 gr Hornady BT that was supposed to produce 40,500 CUP. That's 9500 under CMP recommended pressure, but that load had a lot more recoil, and a lot more vibration and resonating. So, I knew my rifle didn't like it, regardless of the numbers.And that's as far as I need to ponder it.Hope my rambling makes some sense.
I get it. And the more experience you have with a device or machine, the more you know it’s limits and what it can handle. And the same can be said about shooting when you do it often enough. Thank you for sharing and thanks for the insight!
No need for aftermarket gas plugs. Just replace your op rod spring
I didn’t think about that. Thanks for coming by!
I've been shooting the cmp ammo with no problems. I also reload and I keep the pressure close to the ball ammo.
They just released a new stock of surplus ammo, and I sure would like to snag a case but the $400 price tag is just a little too much right now. Thanks for coming by!
Everyone worried about shooting hot ammo in an m1 garand ought to go back and look at m1 ball ammo. The ammo this weapon was designed around.
The performance of the m1 ammo superseded ranges limitations of the time, keeping in mind that 1100 yd shots were expected with this firearm.
Well i for one think the old gal can handle more than what some give it credit for. But there is enough caution felt in the firearms community that raises suspicion. The one thing that would solve the debate would be for the Army or a manufacturer to release some guidance about what can be shot in an aged battle rifle. I made this video keeping in mind those who err on the side of caution. Thanks for coming by!
@@cornfromajar3222 a video had already been made that proves it's a myth...
ruclips.net/video/UOSdswZHJUc/видео.html
Make sure you watch the part 2 video
The issue is the burn rate of the powder used. Since it was a military rifle, all M2 ammo was loaded with IMR-4895. A powder in the same burn range will work. I load with Varget, which is fine. Is this trick gas plug warranted against damage to one’s rifle?
To my knowledge, it is not thanks for coming by!
All eight rounds loaded are the best way to prevent a jam.
Thanks for coming by!
As long as you're recoil spring isn't from ww2 and you grease it. It should be fine. Don't shoot the most powerful super hot ammo snd you'll be fine
Thanks for coming by!
Very cool and interesting! Thank you.
Thanks and thanks for coming by!
Commercial ammo won’t wreck a Garand with the first few shots or few boxes, but continued use will wreck your OP Rod eventually!
That seems to be the main concern I’ve read / heard. A quick scroll through the comments on this video tells me it’s a hot topic with very polarized opinions. My logic is, it’s a 70+ year old gun and I’m going to do anything to prolong its life, even if it means spending $40 on a little gas plug replacement. Thanks for coming by!
Hey man Horton from Nashville,
Hows the gun holding up with the comercial ammo I have 80 rounds of 180 gr s&b fmj I bought by mistake im sitting on and debating on buy Schuster gas plug. You had any issues with comercial ammo?
I haven’t had any issues. But I would definitely get a plug to protect from ammo that high. Thanks for coming by!
Shooting commercial ammo in the M1 is not going to blow up the gun lol. It will however, over time, result in a bent operating rod and those are expensive to replace. If you can get those rounds run through a chronograph it would be really helpful to know what velocity the rounds were reduced to.
Comments on these videos have really made me stop and think and yours really gave me a wake up. I didn’t even think to bring a chronograph while I was doing this video and that is a great idea. I don’t reload so I’ve never thought to buy one, but I know some people. I may do a part two because you hit the nail on the head. Thanks for coming by!
@@cornfromajar3222 no problem. I have owned several M1's through the years (I'm 76) and with my first one I also did not realize commercial ammo was different than ball ammo so of course after a couple hundred rounds I noticed the op rod had a bow in it. This was way back in the 70's so it wasn't like I could look at all the world's knowledge in the palm of my hand lol.
S&B makes 30-06 specific for the m1 garand if you can’t find m2 old military ammo .
Thanks for the video I was thinking what the rifle would do with the after market gas plug .
Interesting 🤔
I forgot about the Sellier. I think Federal/American Eagle makes some as well, but I haven't seen any on the shelves in a long time and it might be a while before I see any again. Thanks for bringing that up I should have mentioned it in the video! Thanks for coming by!
@@cornfromajar3222 no problem, yes federal I heard is good also .Hornady also makes some for the garand and also heard is good .
I haven’t try them yet and yes indeed they are hard to get .
I’m lucky I have a store that specific fixes and sales garands and I keep an eye when he gets ammo in . Usually after hunting season is easier but now with spring coming up and everyone starting to go to the range will be Tough hot find , I also shot PPU and shot very well and accurate
Sellier & Bellot doesn't make M2 batches very often so its quite a bit more difficult to come across. American Eagle, Hornady and PPU are the easiest to find... at least in my area.
@@Kpoole35 agreed they are hard to get I’m lucky I live near by a Garand store that specializes on them and they get it now and than when they do I literally run 🏃♂️ to get some 😁
Yes Snb also federal and ppu make 30-06 specific to the garand. Hard to come by at the shops, but gunbroker has it. May be a bit pricier on gunbroker but it is available. Sent to gun show earlier this month, got some snb for 25 $ a pack !
The plugs are currently out of stock everywhere online, big bummer.
They’ll come back around. There’s a lot of question whether they are necessary, I say better safe than sorry. Thanks for coming by!
As long as the weapon is lubed good ...be fine..
Thanks for coming by!
The M1 does my talking.
That’s what I’m talking about. Thanks for coming by!
I got that shuster thing for my reloads. I load them tame, but why take the chance? Valuable H&R rifle. Getting scarce and expensive.
You might take a look at regrinding your crown if your accuracy is lacking. I thought I saw a bad spot on yours in the video.
The opinions seem to be split either they’re a waste of time or they are a good investment to protect the rifle. As far as I’m concerned, if the only downside is to have to adjust it every time I shoot a different round or different load, then I can live with that. That’s for the advice and thanks for coming by!
Military rifles are not painted. They are Parkerized. Expand your mind. Look it up.
You are correct. I add libbed that audio and didn’t write it down first so I should have edited it. Thanks for coming by!
Own an M 1 rifle have no issue using 150 gr commercial ammo
I haven’t personally experienced issues. I think the idea behind the worry out there in the community is the long term effect. I use a special gas plug just as an extra step to protect the investment- I may never get to own another one. Thanks for coming by!
Thanks for the vid..
Thanks for coming by!
Good video!
Thanks and thanks for coming by!
Yup 500 rounds of M2 ball cost $600
Thanks for coming by!
I have an M-1 that is bone-stock, no mods at all. Generally speaking, would the Remington Core-Lokt .30-06 in 150gr be a safe choice of commercial ammo to use? I would not anticipate any heavy use at all; just for sighting in and the occasional box or two at the local range. (A CMP tech inspection is a given before I take it out, regardless.) Thanks!
Honestly, it may be ok, because the muzzle velocity on the Remington isn’t that different from M2 Ball. But personally I wouldn’t. It’s a very gray area to “risk” blowing up your OPROD, the age of the rifle, the strength of new ammo… the list goes on. And it depends on how worn out your own rifle is as well. With mine, it’s had a long life and shows it’s age and I wouldn’t risk it. If yours looks in great shape inside and out, I wouldn’t think shooting more than a box would be damaging but that’s definitely at your own risk. Thanks for coming by!
Don't do it!!!
it will be fine. that Garand was desinged for nearly 180gr ammo.
No factory ammo is going to hurt an M1 Garand, if you claim otherwise you're lying.
Thanks for coming by!
Well, it’s not necessarily a lie. It’s just people concerned about the bearing loads that the Operating Rod would take if firing hotter ammunition.
The XM16E1 rifles in Vietnam had this problem because the US Army discreetly hidden the port pressure specs that were necessary to make the weapon work properly and to prevent over pressures. In other words, the driving forces of the M1 Garand cycle can be manipulated in a bad way and it even cause parts to fail when they shouldn’t have.
I do think however that commercial 150 grain 30-06 isn’t gonna hurt the weapon, I think it’s safe but I don’t think the bullet weight should be higher than that unless you’re using a adjustable gas plug.
Completely unnecessary. Seeing as the Rifle was Developed around M1 Ball, not M2 Making the baseline the lighest service load is a false start. M72 Match was used well into the 1970's FM-25-3. TMG on youtube has a way better breakdown why these adjustable gas cylinder lock screws are not needed.
I’ll check it out. Thanks for coming by!
I have 2 M1 Garands chambered in .308. One is a Korean war re-build(not sure of manufacturer) and the other is a brand new from Springfield circa 2002. I'm assuming the same bullet weight (under 165 grain basically) situation applies for these?
As a precaution I would. But it’s hard to say without seeing it in person. If there is any doubt I would take it to a couple gunsmiths for a sure opinion. Thanks for coming by!
Is it possible to just take the plug out all and cycle the rifle manually like a bolt action?
I’ve never tried it myself, but I am told by other grand owners that will work. Thanks for coming by!
Recently got my M1 Garand from CMP and now trying to learn more about it. Once you have the Schuster installed and can use the commercial ammo, can you then use the CMP ammo without adjusting the gas plug?
Would seem to me that you would have to adjust it so that it would cycle for the lower pressure gas of the CMP ammo?
Thank you for the video.
You are correct. Every time I shoot a different kind of ammo I readjust the plug. Thanks for coming by!
I use PPU M2 Ball Thanks
I have some PPU 30-06 from the 80s that my uncle gave me. I haven’t tested out the accuracy from it though or the reliability. Now their ammo is marketed under other brands but manufactured by them. Thanks for coming by!
Awesome good info. I’ll probably get one.
Opinions on this are as polarized as Ford vs. Chevy. Some think it’s not necessary others think it is. I say whatever protects an antique rifle so my son will inherit it one day. Thanks for coming by!
@@cornfromajar3222 yes sir
Wow I didn't know about this!
Don't waste your time these gimmicks aren't needed
This is a touchy topic with opinions varying widely. I’ve heard and read both ways that you do need one and that you don’t. In my average Joe opinion, any investment to make it safe and last longer is worth it to me. Thanks for coming by!
@@cornfromajar3222 it's not really an opinion. Science backs it up that they aren't needed.
@@cornfromajar3222 Yes I have always herd of the pressure difference and would not shoot any ammo other than U.S. Gov. but with the diminishing supply this is a good alternative.
Doesn't Hornady make an M1 specific .30.06 cartridge?
I am not sure. I know that federal does but I haven’t seen any Garand safe ammo in my area since way before COVID. Thanks for coming by!
Yes, Hornady makes a vintage match load of 168-grains designed for M-1 use at NRA/CMP matches....
Can you still put on the bayonet with this new plug?
I haven’t tried it. But the new plug is the same size as the old one. Thanks for coming by!
I was at Walmart 2 days ago and found 10 boxes of this ammo dirt cheep. The core lokt 150 grain. It was 10$ a box so I got 10. I’ve been told it’s safe to shoot without the gas plus not I’m not positive on it. If anything I’ll run it trough my 1903a3 Springfield. But I wonder how well this could run with out the plug
I first would say congrats on a great score. I live in rural SEC country and our Walmart hasn’t had that ammo for that price in a long long time.
As for the gas plug/screw, I have heard from/ read over the years that it is an option to remove the screw and shoot. That releases all the gas and makes it basically a bolt action where you cycle every round manually because it won’t chamber the next one. I’ve never tried it myself since I have the aftermarket plug, but I may try that in a future video.
Thanks for coming by!
Thanks man! Kind of shocking I got that ammo in nyc. I may look into getting a new plug. I may just shoot all of that ammo trough my bolt action. I have a few m2 ball rounds left for my M1. But great video and very informative!
When adjusted for commercial ammo, will it still function with LC ball, or do you need to adjust again?
I do have to adjust it if I shoot different types/manufactures of ammo. One of my videos I was zeroing with Ball ammo and I started with adjustment to the gas plug. Thanks for coming by!
I'm a bit confused. I'll picking up my 1943 M1 Garand in 30 06 Friday. I ordered the Gas block you promoted in your post "M1 Garand Shooting Commercial Ammo-Safely!" Then all I get is don't risk using comercial ammo. I don't get it. It's like here's 4 rims but can only use certain old lug bolts unless you use these. Then say, don't trust them.
I probably should have been a little more clear in my transition. At the end of the video, I was referring to shooting commercial ammo without the special plug. I’m just a guy with a channel I didn’t mean to do a public service announcement or mislead anyone. Thanks for for coming by!
@@cornfromajar3222 I apologize. Just getting over surgery and I'm testy. Great vid and I will sub. This was a very well done vid. Again please accept my apology for being rude.
It’s just fine. You did make a good point and when I write out scripts for other material it definitely will help in the future. Thanks again!
Eventhough I went with the Garand Gear plug I'm still hesitant to shoot anything but surplus and ammo that's loaded to 1940's spec. I finally found some for less than $1/rd
I don't know if the Schuster would've made me any more comfortable
The commercial Garand safe ammo hasn’t been available in my area for a while and the CMP is hit and miss. I try to do what I can if I just use regular commercial .30-06. Thanks for coming by!
What is 1940s "spec"?
@@airground1 .30-06 loaded to the specifications of the M2 Ball ammo
@@georgewhitworth9742 false... that's ONE of 1940s spec ammo
Would you reccomend blue locktite when putting the Schuster on?
You probably could, although I don’t in mine. As tight as I can get it with my tool seems to work good for me. But each person might feel differently! Thanks for coming by!
Hows that plug treating the M1? Just got an M1 Saturday and i want to know if that gas plug will take good care of the M1 in the long run while using commercial ammo.
Although I just did the video, I’ve had it well over a year, with maybe 6 range trips in that time and so far but I understand the concern. I haven’t had any issues so far and I imagine it will do ok. I’ve put a variety of commercial loads through it. Thanks for coming by!
Has CMP come out and took a position on this product?
To my knowledge they have not. Thanks for coming by!
tks
Thanks for coming by!
Why not just buy the proper Ammo ?
1. Ammo is in short supply anyhow, and the CMPs supply is come and go. 2. The surplus ball will be extinguished at some point, probably in my lifetime. I did receive an email the other day saying the CMP is releasing a batch of M2 ball in the near future, but I can’t rely on that forever, neither can my sons one of which will get this rifle from me one day.
I just get like for some, it may be a worthwhile item to look into to protect your investment. There are many opinions either way. Thanks for coming by!
I have a Garand Gear gas plug installed. Would you recommend shooting 180 grain Remington Core Lokt?
I haven’t shot 180 grain core lokt myself, but I have shot heavy loads 175-180 grains from Winchester and it seemed normal. I would check the Garand gears recommendation and whatever the load, shoot it with the gas plug wide open and adjust until the rifle cycles. Thanks for coming by!
@@cornfromajar3222 unfortunately the garand gear is is not a adjustable gas plug like the schuster. It just increases the volume enough to shoot lighter modern loads. I just found the inrangetv video on it and it looks like it's not recommended to shoot something like that with the garand gear gas plug.
Cant you reload to ww2 spec
You certainly can and that would be the ideal situation. I’m not I’m a position where I can do that though. Thanks for coming by!
You can shoot commercial ammo but I wouldn't....its a 70 plus year old gun....I bent a op rod years ago shoot commercial rounds...I'm sticking to M2 ball ammo or I reload to Mil Spec M2 ball...those adjustable gas plugs are a joke..I've had several Garands and still do worked as a gunsmith for 40 plus years.Shoe
I am very careful about it, and a couple folks have come by claiming that no special gas port is needed for commercial ammo. Well I’m with you- it’s old and needs some special care for the longevity. I do have a stock of M2 ball but it’s limited so I do what I can if I have to shoot something else. Thanks for sharing and thanks for coming by!
@@cornfromajar3222 Thank you for the response...a suggestion if you don't reload the CMP is selling the Seller and Berlot ( I think I butchered their name... the Chez ammo) and its specifically made to shoot in the M1 yes cost alittle but highly recommend...yes love shooting a Garand...happy shooting Shoe
Great video, I am a new owner and I'm thinking of purchasing this adjustable gas plug. This weekend while shooting the Federal M1 ammo, the rifle was cycling fine, but as time went on the brass was being damaged as it was ejecting and messing up the neck of the brass. The brass was also noticeably hot to touch. Has this happen to you?
It has, and sometimes the brass will leave tiny flakes around the chamber, which comes from the spent shell casing itself. And it is hot. I am told this is normal but it never hurts to consult an experienced garland shooter in person for some advice (and I am definitely not an expert). Thanks for coming by!
A fellow south paw
Yes sir! Thanks for coming by!
Did it cycle with the M2 ball ammo with the gas plug set for the other ammo?
No it won’t with consistency. Even the 150 grain commercial ammo comes out with a little higher pressure.
If I shoot ball ammo when the plug is installed, I have to tighten it a little to get it to eject consistently. Thanks for coming by!
Is this PHA Range?
It is not, but I guess the terrain is similar. Thanks for coming by!
Hello
Thanks for coming by!
@@cornfromajar3222 hy
@@cornfromajar3222 hy
🇺🇸🇺🇸
Thanks for coming by!
Uh, HOPELESS NONSENSE. You repeat virtually every Garand ammo myth on the internet. First, M2 Ball had NOTHING whatsoever to do with the M1 Rifle. In fact, John Garand himself strongly recommended M2 Ball not be used in combat. Second, there is nothing "different" about "modern" ammo. The pressure specs for .30-06 have remained unchanged since 1906. Third, it is obvious you are clueless as to how the M1 Gas System actually works. Little hint. All other factors remaining equal, higher velocity bullets produce LOWER gas port pressure. Fourth, the M1 Garand was developed (primarily) around FULL POWER and FULL PRESSURE (est. 56,000 PSI/48,000 CUP) 174 grain M1 Ball ammo. John Garand himself recommended M1 Ball as late as 1942 (or 165-168 AP). Likewise, REM 150 Core-Lokt is a MILD shooting factory ammo. In fact, it has EXACTLY the same gas port pressure as M2 Ball. Your advocacy of using a MODIFIED GAS CYLINDER LOCK SCREW (there is no "plug" on your M1 rifle!) only reflects the fact you don't really know much of anything about this topic. Absolutely not needed with most (as in 99%) of commercial ammo 180 grains or less. If you REALLY want to learn some facts, you can watch THIS VIDEO. You should consider deleting your video as spreading misinformation isn't helpful.
VIDEO PART 1: ruclips.net/video/UOSdswZHJUc/видео.html
PART 2: ruclips.net/video/5kKTrT9_Fus/видео.html
Well better safe than sorry I guess. Thanks for watching and thanks for coming by!
John Winn here is wrong. Modern ammunition does put greater strain on the m1 garand. Theres plenty of testimonies of bent op rods plus this video:
ruclips.net/video/ZQ_F1riBth8/видео.html
has in depth + mathematical/ scientific tests proving that modern ammunition puts higher strain on the op rod, as well as proving that the ported gas plug reduces the velocity at which the op rod travels.
@@Brock_CO Uh, the "DESERT CLOWNS" VIDEO you linked to has been totally debunked. It is in fact FILLED with complete NONSENSE!!
OK Brockster, EXACTLY how many FACTUAL ERRORS in a video are "allowed" before the video loses credibility in your pointy little head?
HERE is a list of BAD FACTS in this video you linked to Ace:
1: WRONG: THE M1 GARAND WAS NOT “DESIGNED AROUND M2 BALL.”
THE M1 WAS DEVELOPED AND FIELDED W/174 GRAIN M1 BALL. (SEE HATCHER P. 125)
2: WRONG: “THE WRONG AMMO WILL BEND THE OP-ROD.”
THERE ARE NO “BENDING FORCES” IN THE GAS CYCLE OF THE M1. DISMOUNT TABS CAN
BE “PEENED” OVER TIME BY SOME TYPES OF COMMERCIAL AMMO (180+ GR).
3: WRONG: PRE-MODIFIED (WW2) OP-RODS WERE “SHATTERED” BY GI BALL.
ABSURD. CRACKS IN UNMODIFIED OP-RODS WERE RARE IN WW2. NONE SEPERATED. NONE HURT ANYONE. PS, THE HIGHEST STRESS ON THE
ROD OCCURS DURING FEEDING, NOT RECOIL!~!
4: WRONG: M2 BALL MOVES OP-RODS AT 200 INCHES PER SECOND (11.3 MPH)
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY VELOCITY IN 1938 (W/GI BALL) WAS
17.7273 MPH (312 INCHES PER SECOND). CALCULATIONS ARE WAY
OFF!
5: WRONG: THE WRONG AMMO WILL CAUSE DOUBLING (MULTIPLE SHOTS).
ALSO ABSURD. FAILURE TO MANAGE RECOIL (OR WORN HAMMER HOOKS)
CAUSES DOUBLING. THE SHOOTER IN THE VIDEO MILKED THE TRIGGER.
6: WRONG: THE PART IN QUESTION IS NOT A “PLUG.”
IT’S A “GAS CYLINDER LOCK SCREW.”
LOL
@@Brock_CO I try not to get into too many knowledge contests in comments. I know folks will disagree with some content I make and I am no expert or genius. But in this case, my goal is to keep my 70 year old rifle in best shape I can so my sons can inherit it once I’m gone. And each guy can treat their gun however they want, but I wanted to show what I’ve done and maybe help somebody else who was concerned like I was, because I didn’t know you could buy a special plug for commercial ammo. Thanks for coming by!