Ive had the whole grounding issue explained to me very well at University. Wether you should ground shielding on only one or both ends depends on the frequency of the interference you want to shield against. For lower frequencies (500kHz - 1MHz or below) you should ground your shielding at both ends because the interference is due to induction in the conductor. In that case the shielding works by creating a magnetic field (due to the interference) that is opposite to its origin (in that case the interference) and should thereby cancel out the induction in the actual conductor you are trying to shield. For that to work you need actual current to flow, which is why the shielding needs to be grounded on both sides. For higher frequencies the interference is transmitted onto the conductor via capacitive coupling. In that case the shielding acts as the second plate of a capacitor that shorts every charge that is deposited onto it to ground. You are then not relying on the current though the shielding to cancel out the interference. In your specific case here the frequencies of the interference should be mainly due to the vfd's or similar power electronics with working frequencies well below the 500KhZ to 1MHz range which is why I believe grounding both sides would be best.
@@RotarySMP For HDMI Cables very likely yes . (Although standards for consumer electronic cables and the like are often not very reliable because a lot of producers just simply ignore them and or make up their own) My statement was regarding general shielding issues that should apply to HDMI cables as well.
Mark, you really have attracted some of the smartest people to this channel. I learn so much by reading the comments on your videos, more than any group of comments I see on other channels. Thank you to everyone out there that contribute. 🙏🙏🙏🙏
You did a great job on the cable. I had to make some engraved plates recently. I used black colorbond steel and engraved through the black paint to the zincalume underneath. You can drag engrave, rotary engrave or laser it and the factory finish looks great. Regards, Preso
Oh, oh, If Mark has been watching Clickspring videos then we're in for a treat! I'm expecting at least another 50 nameplate cleaning videos, they have to be just perfect 😂 RIP finger.
Great call out for the aero root cause. It’s all about doing a 8D report. Doing that for cloud service providers (CSP) failures now. Love the channel, ex pat Ozzie in USA, so fellow Anzac in Austria is familiar.
I understand all the components in the chain of CNC but it still looks like magic to me. Seeing something on the computer. Pressing some buttons amd after some work you're holding the part you saw on a screen a few moments ago.
Thank you for the video, I enjoyed it as always. It's funny that you could carry on polishing and not notice that you're grinding your finger away at the same time. Good job you only had three to do and not 300, you would have just had a stump where your hand used to be. I've been following those aircraft stories with interest. As you say, hopefully aircraft news will go quiet again soon. - Heather
My brother was a senior engineer at Quantas. He was telling me the Max is an absolute disaster, old design that keeps being updated on the cheap to avoid the costs involved.
I used to operate a Mazak 5 axis and that didn't home the axis' - they were all 'absolute' encoders and set only on installation and service. It would reliably position to 0.0001mm! It was a very impressive machine with temperature controlled ball screws throughout
@@RotarySMP absolute encoder servos are working their way into the hobby space. have you seen the the Marcos Rep video where he has ethercat working with linuxcnc?
@@RotarySMP It doesn't have any real application to what you have done so far, more of a future consideration. the ethercat connection (Beckhoff) allows for the connection of the servo drives and vfd/spindle amplifier and all related feedback through ethernet cables. absolute encoders are a bonus feature.
@@steveggca When I designed my retrofit, ToT did his ethercat videos. I considered it, but it seemed that LinuxCNC ethercat comp was not that mature, and I am not good enough at that side to risk it.
quite a few years ago I remember reading an article about TCAS and thinking I can't even imagine the level of computing power need to handle the air traffic back then, with today's level of air traffic the computing power needed is even higher. The reliability of such a system would have to be insanely high, IBM's latest z16 mainframe boasts nine nines of uptime and reliability, is that good enough for today's TCAS needs? All I know is, that question is way above my paygrade. 😀 Loving the build videos btw.
Since TCAS is aircraft based, it only needs to process the signals of transponders which respond to its interrogation. Since most flight path vectors at straight lines, I don’t think the TCAS computers need that much processing power. The cost is driven by the DAL A software certication due to risk severity of potential failures
You could have used copper shield tape, this is the standard thing we use in case of EMI issue, expecially on fixed installation. With added kapton tape for insulation.
That monitor blinking dark, looks totally dark, ie backlight goes out. So it is possibly a power supply issue since monitor backlight supplies are notorious for blinking faults etc, usually caused by dried out electro caps in the backlight psu module. Of course it MIGHT be auto turningmoff the backlight with a loss of HDMI sync, BUT in my experi3nce when there is a loss of HDMI the backlight usually stays on just the image disappears.
@3:21 the _easiest_ place to attach you braid is those mechanical legs you covered up with tape. It looks like some of the pairs are supposed to be shielded separately as a pair but your flat cable isn't at all, so you might have better luck with a right-angle hdmi male-female adapter (cheap) and a regular hdmi cable.
G’Day Mark, shield grounding/draining was always a foggy area in Avionics. Different vendors seemed to adopt conflicting strategies, and so on. We were often in doubt as to the best course of action.
Good to hear you're getting a handle on the EMC gremlins. As to grounding braid, I wouldn't blindly ground both ends as you don't want to introduce grounding loops especially if the devices are powered from different supplies - that can introduce a lot of even weirder gremlins. I'd also look at placing ferrite beads strategically on problematic power supplies leads and cabling.
I hope it isn't considered to be inappropriate to comment here regarding one of your previous video, but are the spools you used to load that Beaulieu R16 manufactured in such a way that light couldn't leak into its inner/unadvanced layers when not in the darkroom ?
I'm not sure about your specific dials, but I know with a lot of automation specific equipment they often key the threaded portion either with a cutout or flat. Makes it much easier to clock your face plates correctly and have them stay in place. Of course, nice to have features like that usually end up costing extra as well...
If it's a sync issue, try adding an EDID minder to the cable. I keep a couple of bi-directionals in my kit for A/V installs where detection isn't ideal for the use case.
If you can, lay the HDMI cable flat against the grounded chassis. This can significantly help reduce immunity issues. Also, make sure that where your chassis panels mate, that there is a good electrical connection (to form a faraday cage).
Thanks Alex, good ideas. I have decent signal with that cable shielded and as far away from everything else as possible. I will get some of those sick on tie wrap mounts to keep the cable like that. I haven't made the back closing sheet yet.
I'm sure you've looked already but if you search for "u shaped hdmi adapter" would one of those fit? Alternatively a custom PCB with a HDMI plug + socket would reduce the exposure area and allow you to use a single display port to HDMI cable.
Ground both ends, and I would use aluminum or copper tape, it's not as messy, and works better for high frequency anyway, because it's solid. There is a situation where you must not connect both ends of a shield, and that's if you already have an inner conductor, usually PE, that carries ground/earth, because you don't want any stray fault currents on the shield. Here it's fine to connect both.
Thanks Alexander. It seems to be working well now. I wonder about all the recommendations for single ended shielding, as I kind of doubt the commercial ones are only connected at one end.
@@RotarySMP Because people are confusing things. Especially where ground loops come from, and how fully isolated class 2 devices interact in that regard (both your PC and the monitor are fully isolated). We had a similar problem with HDMI, even an AOC. That obviously has no shielding because it's optical, however in addition to the HDMI signal on a fiber, it also carries power and I²C for EDID, which was susceptible to noise. All in the direct vicinity of a VFD and big motor. In the end we had to shield the whole optical cable, and the computer was a small-form-factor PC with external PSUs, so we had to drill a hole into it and mount a chunky ground cable as well. Only then would HDMI stop to break up all the time. And yeah, HDMI has shield connected on both ends. AFAIK there is no possibility of ground loop because none of the internal pins are directly connected to the outer housing, i.e. your braided shield is the single ground connection, like with Cat.5.
As an electronics guy I do a lot of small panel engraving jobs for prototypes and test equipment etc. For 3 small discs like that, I would clamp down a lerger piece of stock to ensure flatness, then engrave all 3 in one operation. The engraving would include the centre divot (for manual drilling later), or in most of my cases I would just change the cutting tool after engraving then CNC cut out the centre holes and lastly the edges to separate the 3 parts. And mostly not steel, I have come to prefer the rear engraving plastic laminate that has clear thick top layer and a very thin rear black layer you engrave through (reversed, obviously). Actually I think that plastic it might be a German product, I ordered a heap of it years ago with some small endmills from Germany.
@@RotarySMP I realize that you are running out of I/O, back in the good olde days, those switches were make before break rotary switches. ie the rapid override switch would have 5 positions (sometime 4 with 75% deleted) for 0%,25%,50%,75% ,and finally 100% otherwise known as 000 through 101. the feed rate override/jog speed selector had about 16 positions for 0% to 150% or 00000 to 10000. alternatively 16 ,selected by you, feedrates. spindle speed override was 50% to 120% these are forever settings until the switch is turned to another setting.
@@RotarySMP, well, in low-voltage situations, you want to avoid ground loops at all costs. The only way to guarantee that is to always ground one end of any shield closest to the best ground. It would be preferable to run all grounding points to one common lug and then ground that lug to the power source ground. At least, this is what they taught me when I took classes in satellite receivers. Ya know, stochastic signal processing and all that jazz.
4:54 HDMI ist ein digitales Signal also solltest du den Schirm auf beiden Seiten auflegen, bei Analogsignalen legt man den in der Theorie einseitig auf.
On XFCE you can enable Mouse Emulation under accessibility. Can't remember if I had to do anything to enable it. Useful if you don't tend to use the keypad anyway
Maybe a bit of a Non-Sequitur but just wanted to mention that some HDMI cables have their own IP Address. It might be for the feature of wirelessly accessing what is on a monitor screen. Perhaps covertly if associated spyware is installed - In Windows you can check via Device Manager "Show Hidden Devices"
Production quality and quaility control at Spirit has been a long problem. According to various documents, Spirit has focused more on churning out product by over worked andunder trained workers than it has on safety. Spirit has been requiring workers to work 12 to 18 hour shifts and quality control staff have been punished for finding faults. Blairanco(sp?) has been doing a few videos on with with documentation from cases going on right now. EDIT: I forgot to say, can you get a stylus so you can reach things on the screen instead of relying on your finger?
Yeah, the whistle blowers and other info leaking out of Spirit does not paint a positive picture of the culture there. Good point on the Stylus. I'll get one.
Shielding is not about grounding. Shieds form a channel for the emi to traverse the wire. The shied should be a fully enclosed volume. You should not ground it unless its matches the above criteria.
hast du das Gehäuse, PC, und Bildschirm auch geerdet? am Besten ist alles auf das selbe Potenzial zu hängen. hab bei meiner CNC fräse meine Datenkabel mit Alufolie geschirmt weil ich nichts anderes hatte und erst als ich Maschine, Gehäuse und Kabel am selben Erdpotenzial hatte hats gut funktioniert.
Aviation accidents and incidents are always complicated like you said. It usually takes a long time to do the investigation too. Hopefully they find the root causes of both of theses and fix them.....
Hi Jasper, Yeah, I think there is going to be a lot of lessons learned from both. Could you please drop me a line on the email address on my channels "about" page. Cheers, Mark
@@jster1963 Oh right, RUclips have removed the about tab, Now the email address is in the main channel description, once you expand it with the little right bracket.
Soon you will be forced to buy a new machine to restore. Your almost done with this one. On a more serious note, what got me started watching your channel was that camera stand you made, I loked seeing and actual project coming out of these machines, not just machines fixing machines
Could you please help me? I saw a tool claimed to be used in the aviation industry in a video on YT but I cannot find anymore. This tool is somewhat similar like a car battery post cleaner wire brush. It can be fastened in an electric drill chuck, it has a pilot pin and is used to clean the surrounding metal surface around a hole for the best electrical connection for a ring terminal that to be fastened to the surface as grounding for example. Could you please tell me how is this tool called and if this can be purchased easily?
@@RotarySMP Thanks for the answer! I appreciate very much. In the meantime I was so fed up that google absolutely did not gave any useful result that I re-watched a bunch of videos and finally found it. The tool is called "Piloted bonding brush" or "rivet hole brush". So far the closest company I found who sells this in the UK. It would be great if I would be able to find this available to buy in the EU.
Shield one end, or you get ground loops. I'm surprised such a short cable has issues, HDMI uses differential pairs. That "cheap" aluminium roofing tape also works wonders.
Better you did that on the stone than on the belt sander. That is not fun... We have been having allot of conversations about the plug door as well (while on an A320 usually). It's looking like the left side plug is taken out by another vendor that installs the sat internet. Not 100% verified yet though and not sure if the right side comes out either. That said that doesn't explain the loose bracket bolts in aircraft. Most of our conversation revolves around the fact that most US made products are made by the I don't GARA method. Just throw it together cash your check and go spend it. There is no pride in workmanship in most of the country now. And talking about this in the van to the hotel that was over an hour late at 1:30am cause they couldn't find their driver... The airline didn't answer anyone until personal texts were sent then they kept trying uber and they kept cancelling... Oh I didn't mention the return flight where we almost weight restricted as the flight went from block time of 2:20 to almost 5hrs to go around weather. And they had us de ice before finally approving the new route and needing to go get more fuel... In short no one cares. If I were in a position at an airline purchasing $$$ aircraft I would have MY people on the line with a check list camera and body cam checking all the deemed to be vital type things that you can't see after assembly. But I have an issue where if I didn't do it or at least see it done I don't trust that it was done properly and this is one of the many reasons why I feel that way. One of Reagans great quotes. "Trust but verify"
I know Lufthansa has a team of inspectors they send in to monitor production of their A/C. I met two of them on site in Dos Campos monitoring the Cityline Embraer production. I would no be surprised if Boeing and Spirit have a reasonably robust process for the TC production hand off of the fuselage. It would not surprise me if that STC installed at the end of production has little to none of that process interface and hand off.
With displayport to hdmi adapters, try to buy new old stock ones from HP, Lenovo, or Dell, not generic garbage from china. I've definitely had issues with DP->HDMI adapters having that flickering issue in the past. It's not a physical connection problem, but a problem with the chipset in the adapter / the video chipset / the linux drivers.
Would you be open to sharing the FreeCAD file for those engravings, or at least how you got the (presumably single line?) text to work? I've been struggling to make some scrabble tiles because I can't get FreeCAD to do a non-TTF font which would be slow to machine.
In the UK there is a campaign to prevent the pilot responsible for the Shoreham air crash from renewing his pilots licence. Whilst not wanting to comment on the particulars, what fascinates me is the different standards applied to drivers vs pilots. Five people a day are killed by drivers, yet no campaigns to prevent all of them from driving again and crash investigators have no power to affect change. If we applied the same rigour to motoring as we did to flying, the positive impact on society would be enormous.
... with the down side that about 2% would have and keep drivers licenses :) I think a lot of it is based on inherent suspition of flying. The move from horse to horseless carriage was not such a jump.
And also the horseless carriages were initially the preserve of the very rich (and influential) - the Mr Toads. The everyday absolution of drivers is astonishing when compared to any other aspect of societal responsibility but especially when compared to pilots.
Before I parted ways with my employer this past September they totally eliminated the entire QA/Acceptance testing teams. All of them. Someone sold theses clowns a bill of goods that all they need is software unit tests and automated testing. The developers that write the software are also now responsible for QA AND writing all the unit and automation in addition to developing the features. While doing this they made sure the organisation was so hostile people quit in droves, you know, the people that actually built those systems that don't have the magical 100% coverage unit and automation tests. This is a place that handles and profits of trillions of your money daily, across the globe, and has its hands in almost everything. I think we're heading into a new age of idiocracy, AI is going to be fuel for that dumpster fire.
@@RotarySMP I saw one of the whistle blowers talk about it. But the issues are like an onion: Every insane action Boeing did can be followed by “Yes, but did you know what they did before that?”
You're in danger of finishing this project. I wonder what that would feel like? Did you see the Vulcan rocket launch? Shame the little lander won't be able to complete it's mission but at least the rocket works !
@@graealex That is the way I understand it as well. I was told when I studied IT if a shielded cable is not grounded at both ends that the shielding starts to act as a antenna...
@@HeimoVN Exactly. Also ground loops get formed when you have a) two devices at different ground potential, and b) an unbalanced signal where ground is part of the signal. Then current flows between the two devices, and the device interprets the ground current as part of the signal, for example you might get a 50 Hz hum on an unbalanced audio connection. HDMI itself is differential, however there is also an I²C signal for EDID/DDC, however that references a separate pin 17 as Ground. If there was a ground loop, it would already be happening over pin 17. Where you absolutely must not connect the shield on both ends is if there is a PE conductor in the cable. Then you must only connect shield to PE on one end, because you don't want fault currents running over the exposed shield.
@@RotarySMP one thing about the HDMI cable, I found with my high end monitor for gaming, that if I put it in a warm part of the house, it would get pretty warm and the backlight would tend to overheat. Pretty sure that's not your problem, but might want to monitor the temperature of your enclosure and provide some airflow if you find the temperature to be a bit high... just another thing to worry about with electronics... they give off heat and don't like to operate in a hot environment. =D
Ive had the whole grounding issue explained to me very well at University. Wether you should ground shielding on only one or both ends depends on the frequency of the interference you want to shield against. For lower frequencies (500kHz - 1MHz or below) you should ground your shielding at both ends because the interference is due to induction in the conductor. In that case the shielding works by creating a magnetic field (due to the interference) that is opposite to its origin (in that case the interference) and should thereby cancel out the induction in the actual conductor you are trying to shield. For that to work you need actual current to flow, which is why the shielding needs to be grounded on both sides. For higher frequencies the interference is transmitted onto the conductor via capacitive coupling. In that case the shielding acts as the second plate of a capacitor that shorts every charge that is deposited onto it to ground. You are then not relying on the current though the shielding to cancel out the interference. In your specific case here the frequencies of the interference should be mainly due to the vfd's or similar power electronics with working frequencies well below the 500KhZ to 1MHz range which is why I believe grounding both sides would be best.
Since there are a zillion HDMI cables out there, would the shielding not be defined in the stardard, and used on all cables?
@@RotarySMP For HDMI Cables very likely yes . (Although standards for consumer electronic cables and the like are often not very reliable because a lot of producers just simply ignore them and or make up their own) My statement was regarding general shielding issues that should apply to HDMI cables as well.
@@aaronsilas7024 Thanks for explaining that Aaron.
Mark, you really have attracted some of the smartest people to this channel. I learn so much by reading the comments on your videos, more than any group of comments I see on other channels. Thank you to everyone out there that contribute. 🙏🙏🙏🙏
Thanks a lot Joel. The community is the best aspect of doing this lark :)
You did a great job on the cable. I had to make some engraved plates recently. I used black colorbond steel and engraved through the black paint to the zincalume underneath. You can drag engrave, rotary engrave or laser it and the factory finish looks great.
Regards, Preso
Hi Preso. I got an offer from a kind view to redo those plates more nicely on his laser. :)
I am glad it helped.
Solder the shield to one end, a bit better this way.
Thanks for the tip. I only got solder to stick on one end anyway :)
Soldering at both ends makes a ground loop and can cause problems.
At 14:57 “Jog Slow Man” well, yes, because jogging fast is called running
Nice one Jeff :)
Oh, oh, If Mark has been watching Clickspring videos then we're in for a treat! I'm expecting at least another 50 nameplate cleaning videos, they have to be just perfect 😂
RIP finger.
Thanks Vince. I was watching his series on gear cutting. Those jigs and tools he designed are really clever.
@ 12:38 ... Now that is what I call a WET Stone...
You have to sacrifice for the art. :)
Love the math rock at ~12 minutes!
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for the feedback.
Great call out for the aero root cause. It’s all about doing a 8D report. Doing that for cloud service providers (CSP) failures now.
Love the channel, ex pat Ozzie in USA, so fellow Anzac in Austria is familiar.
Yeah, that sort of systematic approach is useful in all aspects of life.
I understand all the components in the chain of CNC but it still looks like magic to me.
Seeing something on the computer. Pressing some buttons amd after some work you're holding the part you saw on a screen a few moments ago.
Yeah, that is the dream. The reality is a fair bit different than that :)
@@RotarySMP I know! I know. I CAD/CAM/CUT a lot at work.
I worked on TCAS in the early 90's, but now out of the avionics industry. I enjoy the insight you provide, and the projects.
Hi Joel. I am guessing that the runway collision alerting system (I forget the acronym.) is probably a lot more difficult to implement effectively.
5:12 at least you know the oil pum is working 😅
Yeah, flood of oil is a good indicator. :)
Thank you for the video, I enjoyed it as always. It's funny that you could carry on polishing and not notice that you're grinding your finger away at the same time. Good job you only had three to do and not 300, you would have just had a stump where your hand used to be.
I've been following those aircraft stories with interest. As you say, hopefully aircraft news will go quiet again soon. - Heather
Hi Heather. Yeah, I felt nothing, then took a look and it started bleeding. I guess I should not have stopped and looked at it :)
My brother was a senior engineer at Quantas. He was telling me the Max is an absolute disaster, old design that keeps being updated on the cheap to avoid the costs involved.
Yeah, the huge Leap engines has driven some compromises, which in hindsight are not ideal.
I used to operate a Mazak 5 axis and that didn't home the axis' - they were all 'absolute' encoders and set only on installation and service. It would reliably position to 0.0001mm! It was a very impressive machine with temperature controlled ball screws throughout
Yeah, when I wrote that, I knew this would come. Those top end machines are amazing.
@@RotarySMP absolute encoder servos are working their way into the hobby space.
have you seen the the Marcos Rep video where he has ethercat working with linuxcnc?
Hi Steve, I saw the title, but at a time I didn't have time to watch it. It is on my view list.
@@RotarySMP It doesn't have any real application to what you have done so far, more of a future consideration.
the ethercat connection (Beckhoff) allows for the connection of the servo drives and vfd/spindle amplifier and
all related feedback through ethernet cables. absolute encoders are a bonus feature.
@@steveggca When I designed my retrofit, ToT did his ethercat videos. I considered it, but it seemed that LinuxCNC ethercat comp was not that mature, and I am not good enough at that side to risk it.
quite a few years ago I remember reading an article about TCAS and thinking I can't even imagine the level of computing power need to handle the air traffic back then, with today's level of air traffic the computing power needed is even higher. The reliability of such a system would have to be insanely high, IBM's latest z16 mainframe boasts nine nines of uptime and reliability, is that good enough for today's TCAS needs? All I know is, that question is way above my paygrade. 😀
Loving the build videos btw.
Since TCAS is aircraft based, it only needs to process the signals of transponders which respond to its interrogation. Since most flight path vectors at straight lines, I don’t think the TCAS computers need that much processing power. The cost is driven by the DAL A software certication due to risk severity of potential failures
You could have used copper shield tape, this is the standard thing we use in case of EMI issue, expecially on fixed installation. With added kapton tape for insulation.
I didn't have any, but had that braid laying a the bottom of the wire pile :)
That monitor blinking dark, looks totally dark, ie backlight goes out.
So it is possibly a power supply issue since monitor backlight supplies are notorious for blinking faults etc, usually caused by dried out electro caps in the backlight psu module.
Of course it MIGHT be auto turningmoff the backlight with a loss of HDMI sync, BUT in my experi3nce when there is a loss of HDMI the backlight usually stays on just the image disappears.
I also considered a power issue, but it seems that the HDMI shielding has fixed the issue.
@3:21 the _easiest_ place to attach you braid is those mechanical legs you covered up with tape. It looks like some of the pairs are supposed to be shielded separately as a pair but your flat cable isn't at all, so you might have better luck with a right-angle hdmi male-female adapter (cheap) and a regular hdmi cable.
Thanks Tim. It seems to be working stably now, but if it is not stable, I will see if I can get an angle adapter to fit.
G’Day Mark, shield grounding/draining was always a foggy area in Avionics. Different vendors seemed to adopt conflicting strategies, and so on. We were often in doubt as to the best course of action.
Hi Doric, If you check the feedback the opinion is I need to connect one end to the shield, and also to connect both ends to the shielding :)
@@RotarySMP Ah, there you go. Consensus. 👍
Good to hear you're getting a handle on the EMC gremlins. As to grounding braid, I wouldn't blindly ground both ends as you don't want to introduce grounding loops especially if the devices are powered from different supplies - that can introduce a lot of even weirder gremlins. I'd also look at placing ferrite beads strategically on problematic power supplies leads and cabling.
Thanks Vince. For now it is working, so I won't touch it again :)
For having learned to do fiber optic connectors by hand, when you polish a piece, you must go with figure 8 movements :)
Thanks for the feedback on that Olivier.
I hope it isn't considered to be inappropriate to comment here regarding one of your previous video, but are the spools you used to load that Beaulieu R16 manufactured in such a way that
light couldn't leak into its inner/unadvanced layers when not in the darkroom ?
Yes, that is typical for 16mm film. They come on so cald "daylight" reels, so you only fog the first few meters of film if you load it in the light.
I'm not sure about your specific dials, but I know with a lot of automation specific equipment they often key the threaded portion either with a cutout or flat. Makes it much easier to clock your face plates correctly and have them stay in place. Of course, nice to have features like that usually end up costing extra as well...
These are free rotation encoders, so there is no clocking required.
If it's a sync issue, try adding an EDID minder to the cable. I keep a couple of bi-directionals in my kit for A/V installs where detection isn't ideal for the use case.
Thank for the tip. It seems to work stabily now.
@@RotarySMP I have a bad habit of commenting before things get fixed 🤣
@@tahwnikcufos Thanks for commenting.
Thanks for posting interesting content! I’ve really been enjoying your videos, especially loving the post rock style backtracks! Keep it up!
Glad you like them!
12:36 good call on switching to water!:P
Water cool the ground finger :)
If you can, lay the HDMI cable flat against the grounded chassis. This can significantly help reduce immunity issues.
Also, make sure that where your chassis panels mate, that there is a good electrical connection (to form a faraday cage).
Thanks Alex, good ideas. I have decent signal with that cable shielded and as far away from everything else as possible. I will get some of those sick on tie wrap mounts to keep the cable like that.
I haven't made the back closing sheet yet.
I'm sure you've looked already but if you search for "u shaped hdmi adapter" would one of those fit? Alternatively a custom PCB with a HDMI plug + socket would reduce the exposure area and allow you to use a single display port to HDMI cable.
Thanks for the tips. The shielded cable seems to be working fine for now.
one end only the source end. connecting both provides a possible ground path for the electronics
Thanks Kirk, there seems to be a fair bit of disagreement here n these comments on that.
Looks really smart I think shields are normally only connected one end but might depend on the interface type 😀
Thanks.
very good job RotarySMP
Thanks a lot.
Ground both ends, and I would use aluminum or copper tape, it's not as messy, and works better for high frequency anyway, because it's solid.
There is a situation where you must not connect both ends of a shield, and that's if you already have an inner conductor, usually PE, that carries ground/earth, because you don't want any stray fault currents on the shield. Here it's fine to connect both.
Thanks Alexander. It seems to be working well now.
I wonder about all the recommendations for single ended shielding, as I kind of doubt the commercial ones are only connected at one end.
@@RotarySMP Because people are confusing things. Especially where ground loops come from, and how fully isolated class 2 devices interact in that regard (both your PC and the monitor are fully isolated).
We had a similar problem with HDMI, even an AOC. That obviously has no shielding because it's optical, however in addition to the HDMI signal on a fiber, it also carries power and I²C for EDID, which was susceptible to noise. All in the direct vicinity of a VFD and big motor.
In the end we had to shield the whole optical cable, and the computer was a small-form-factor PC with external PSUs, so we had to drill a hole into it and mount a chunky ground cable as well. Only then would HDMI stop to break up all the time.
And yeah, HDMI has shield connected on both ends. AFAIK there is no possibility of ground loop because none of the internal pins are directly connected to the outer housing, i.e. your braided shield is the single ground connection, like with Cat.5.
@@graealex Thanks for that Alexander.
As an electronics guy I do a lot of small panel engraving jobs for prototypes and test equipment etc.
For 3 small discs like that, I would clamp down a lerger piece of stock to ensure flatness, then engrave all 3 in one operation. The engraving would include the centre divot (for manual drilling later), or in most of my cases I would just change the cutting tool after engraving then CNC cut out the centre holes and lastly the edges to separate the 3 parts.
And mostly not steel, I have come to prefer the rear engraving plastic laminate that has clear thick top layer and a very thin rear black layer you engrave through (reversed, obviously). Actually I think that plastic it might be a German product, I ordered a heap of it years ago with some small endmills from Germany.
Good ideas thanks. I didn't think of back engraving. That makes sense.
@@RotarySMPit’s called traffolyte in the UK. 😊
@@chrisfairbrother9197 Thanks Chris.
@@chrisfairbrother9197 thank you Chris! It was years ago I would have never found the receipt lol. 👍
Interference could be going straight through the giant aperture in your housing (for the screen). Shame you can’t have ITO glass over it.
Could be, but it now seems under control.
Did you watch Chris at Clickspring hand engrave the Antikythera mechanism? Maybe you could have outsourced the engraving!
His workmanship is exceptional. We had a retired jeweler in the structures workshop I did my fire OJT in, and he could also hand engrave like that.
Are your encoders push type? Used the push to reset the value to 100%.
Yes they are. Gmoccapy doesn't have reset pins for the jog or the spindle overrides, so I need to have a think about working around that.
@@RotarySMP I realize that you are running out of I/O, back in the good olde days, those switches were make before break rotary switches.
ie the rapid override switch would have 5 positions (sometime 4 with 75% deleted) for 0%,25%,50%,75% ,and finally 100% otherwise known as 000 through 101.
the feed rate override/jog speed selector had about 16 positions for 0% to 150% or 00000 to 10000. alternatively 16 ,selected by you, feedrates.
spindle speed override was 50% to 120%
these are forever settings until the switch is turned to another setting.
The marking turned out great!
Thanks Rob. Not sure if a better paint might not have done better fill in ?
Maybe consider a stylus for your touch screen?
Good point, I think Nico has one. I will borrow it and give it a try.
One end. The one closer to the PSU and true ground.
Thanks, there seems to be a fair bit of disagreement on that in these comments.
@@RotarySMP, well, in low-voltage situations, you want to avoid ground loops at all costs. The only way to guarantee that is to always ground one end of any shield closest to the best ground. It would be preferable to run all grounding points to one common lug and then ground that lug to the power source ground. At least, this is what they taught me when I took classes in satellite receivers. Ya know, stochastic signal processing and all that jazz.
@@unclespicey42 Thanks.
I wonder what the label disks would have looked like if you blued them before engraving.
I tried that as well. But then I cant scratch of sand the excess pain away, as that damaged the blueing. Maybe should have tried different paint.
4:54 HDMI ist ein digitales Signal also solltest du den Schirm auf beiden Seiten auflegen, bei Analogsignalen legt man den in der Theorie einseitig auf.
Thanks for the feedback. That sound logical.
On XFCE you can enable Mouse Emulation under accessibility. Can't remember if I had to do anything to enable it. Useful if you don't tend to use the keypad anyway
Thanks for the tip Peter.
Maybe a bit of a Non-Sequitur but just wanted to mention that some HDMI cables have their own IP Address. It might be for the feature of wirelessly accessing what is on a monitor screen. Perhaps covertly if associated spyware is installed - In Windows you can check via Device Manager "Show Hidden Devices"
This is a pretty basic Debian system, and is not connected to the internet, so I am not too worried about that.
I was always told to ground at the source end of signal.
Thanks Jon. That makes sense.
Production quality and quaility control at Spirit has been a long problem. According to various documents, Spirit has focused more on churning out product by over worked andunder trained workers than it has on safety. Spirit has been requiring workers to work 12 to 18 hour shifts and quality control staff have been punished for finding faults.
Blairanco(sp?) has been doing a few videos on with with documentation from cases going on right now.
EDIT: I forgot to say, can you get a stylus so you can reach things on the screen instead of relying on your finger?
Yeah, the whistle blowers and other info leaking out of Spirit does not paint a positive picture of the culture there.
Good point on the Stylus. I'll get one.
Shielding is not about grounding. Shieds form a channel for the emi to traverse the wire. The shied should be a fully enclosed volume. You should not ground it unless its matches the above criteria.
Thanks for the explanation Bogdan.
12:35 If you stare into Clickspring's videos long enough, they will begin to stare back.
His trade skills are phenomenal.
angle grinder, Niko is happy
I hope so.
I live in Fairbanks Alaska
That 737-900 is talk of town
I bet it is. Pretty scary for those on board. Did you see the latest from Blancolirio?
ruclips.net/video/RSGujNq4bVM/видео.html
like the engraving :) looks like the lathe will be finished soon
Hi Luke, Thanks, but dont hold you breath :)
Well one day it will be nearly finished
Good call :)
hast du das Gehäuse, PC, und Bildschirm auch geerdet? am Besten ist alles auf das selbe Potenzial zu hängen. hab bei meiner CNC fräse meine Datenkabel mit Alufolie geschirmt weil ich nichts anderes hatte und erst als ich Maschine, Gehäuse und Kabel am selben Erdpotenzial hatte hats gut funktioniert.
Habe ich nicht. Derzerit funktioniert es mit dem Kabelshirmung, aber, falls problem auftretten gebe ich eine Erdung dazu.
Aviation accidents and incidents are always complicated like you said. It usually takes a long time to do the investigation too. Hopefully they find the root causes of both of theses and fix them.....
Hi Jasper,
Yeah, I think there is going to be a lot of lessons learned from both.
Could you please drop me a line on the email address on my channels "about" page.
Cheers,
Mark
@@RotarySMP Sure. But I don't see an "about" anywhere....
@@jster1963 Oh right, RUclips have removed the about tab, Now the email address is in the main channel description, once you expand it with the little right bracket.
Soon you will be forced to buy a new machine to restore. Your almost done with this one. On a more serious note, what got me started watching your channel was that camera stand you made, I loked seeing and actual project coming out of these machines, not just machines fixing machines
I look forward to that as well, but really want to finish the Schaublin before getting too distracted
@@RotarySMP i have no idea how you managed to read that with all those typos. That's what I get for denying I need reading glasses
Could you please help me?
I saw a tool claimed to be used in the aviation industry in a video on YT but I cannot find anymore.
This tool is somewhat similar like a car battery post cleaner wire brush. It can be fastened in an electric drill chuck, it has a pilot pin and is used to clean the surrounding metal surface around a hole for the best electrical connection for a ring terminal that to be fastened to the surface as grounding for example.
Could you please tell me how is this tool called and if this can be purchased easily?
I discussed this with a friend who was Avionics. His suggestion was to search for:
Battery post terminal cleaner or
Battery terminal cleaner for drill
@@RotarySMP Thanks for the answer! I appreciate very much.
In the meantime I was so fed up that google absolutely did not gave any useful result that I re-watched a bunch of videos and finally found it.
The tool is called "Piloted bonding brush" or "rivet hole brush".
So far the closest company I found who sells this in the UK. It would be great if I would be able to find this available to buy in the EU.
Being mechanical, I never knew this tool existed. Wonder what it is called in German?
Shield one end, or you get ground loops. I'm surprised such a short cable has issues, HDMI uses differential pairs. That "cheap" aluminium roofing tape also works wonders.
Thanks for the feedback, Do you think commercial HDMI cables are only grounded at one end?
It's most likely the (unbalanced) EDID/DDC signal that accepts the noise and makes the monitor lose connection.
Only shield one end for signal wires. You only shield both with vfd power wires
Thanks Paul. I think one connector had a coating on it. I only got solder sticking on the bent end.
Your pinecil soldering iron will work better from a 12V barrel jack than from USB :)
Are you sure about that? USB-C PB can supply up to 20V and 60W.
Sorry should have written 24V. I noticed a diference when I switched from usb to a 24v brick, but it might allso be my USB delivery that was weak.
@@SorteBill1514 I have been using my apple USB-C PSU, and it works well.
Better you did that on the stone than on the belt sander. That is not fun... We have been having allot of conversations about the plug door as well (while on an A320 usually). It's looking like the left side plug is taken out by another vendor that installs the sat internet. Not 100% verified yet though and not sure if the right side comes out either. That said that doesn't explain the loose bracket bolts in aircraft. Most of our conversation revolves around the fact that most US made products are made by the I don't GARA method. Just throw it together cash your check and go spend it. There is no pride in workmanship in most of the country now. And talking about this in the van to the hotel that was over an hour late at 1:30am cause they couldn't find their driver... The airline didn't answer anyone until personal texts were sent then they kept trying uber and they kept cancelling... Oh I didn't mention the return flight where we almost weight restricted as the flight went from block time of 2:20 to almost 5hrs to go around weather. And they had us de ice before finally approving the new route and needing to go get more fuel...
In short no one cares. If I were in a position at an airline purchasing $$$ aircraft I would have MY people on the line with a check list camera and body cam checking all the deemed to be vital type things that you can't see after assembly. But I have an issue where if I didn't do it or at least see it done I don't trust that it was done properly and this is one of the many reasons why I feel that way. One of Reagans great quotes. "Trust but verify"
I know Lufthansa has a team of inspectors they send in to monitor production of their A/C. I met two of them on site in Dos Campos monitoring the Cityline Embraer production.
I would no be surprised if Boeing and Spirit have a reasonably robust process for the TC production hand off of the fuselage. It would not surprise me if that STC installed at the end of production has little to none of that process interface and hand off.
6:13 did you try with a touchscreen pen?
Good idea. I dont have one yet, but will try that.
I was just about to suggest that. Touchscreen pen on a string attached to the console. Simple and always handy.
@@michaelsilva7085 I will try this out.
With displayport to hdmi adapters, try to buy new old stock ones from HP, Lenovo, or Dell, not generic garbage from china. I've definitely had issues with DP->HDMI adapters having that flickering issue in the past. It's not a physical connection problem, but a problem with the chipset in the adapter / the video chipset / the linux drivers.
In this case that DP-HDMI worked with regular cables, and seems to work stably now I have the shielding and routing improved.
Solder only one end, you don't want to create a ground loop
Thanks Steven.
You should add a personnel touch to your panel. A drop of blood.
I just did :) Feed the CNC Demons.
Would you be open to sharing the FreeCAD file for those engravings, or at least how you got the (presumably single line?) text to work? I've been struggling to make some scrabble tiles because I can't get FreeCAD to do a non-TTF font which would be slow to machine.
I gave up one working out how to do it in FreeCad, and did these on my 20 year old copy of Feature cam sorry.
@@RotarySMP No bother! I think I'll try a workflow involving Inkscape and see how far I get.
In the UK there is a campaign to prevent the pilot responsible for the Shoreham air crash from renewing his pilots licence. Whilst not wanting to comment on the particulars, what fascinates me is the different standards applied to drivers vs pilots. Five people a day are killed by drivers, yet no campaigns to prevent all of them from driving again and crash investigators have no power to affect change.
If we applied the same rigour to motoring as we did to flying, the positive impact on society would be enormous.
... with the down side that about 2% would have and keep drivers licenses :)
I think a lot of it is based on inherent suspition of flying. The move from horse to horseless carriage was not such a jump.
And also the horseless carriages were initially the preserve of the very rich (and influential) - the Mr Toads.
The everyday absolution of drivers is astonishing when compared to any other aspect of societal responsibility but especially when compared to pilots.
@@philip_fletcher I got my drivers license in NZ at 15. Would have been safer to give me and my mates loaded handguns :O
The Boeing bolts are allegedly because QA simply has been removed! Boeing simply stopped doing QA on assemblage.
Did you see: ruclips.net/video/RSGujNq4bVM/видео.html. Interesting update.
Before I parted ways with my employer this past September they totally eliminated the entire QA/Acceptance testing teams. All of them. Someone sold theses clowns a bill of goods that all they need is software unit tests and automated testing. The developers that write the software are also now responsible for QA AND writing all the unit and automation in addition to developing the features. While doing this they made sure the organisation was so hostile people quit in droves, you know, the people that actually built those systems that don't have the magical 100% coverage unit and automation tests. This is a place that handles and profits of trillions of your money daily, across the globe, and has its hands in almost everything. I think we're heading into a new age of idiocracy, AI is going to be fuel for that dumpster fire.
@@RotarySMP I saw one of the whistle blowers talk about it. But the issues are like an onion: Every insane action Boeing did can be followed by “Yes, but did you know what they did before that?”
As they say in my adopted nation: “Tidy, like”
Thanks.
Can't beat a bit of Gavin & Stacey...
Shield only grounded at one end
Thanks Jim.
wot no black sharpie.. that scuff to the left of the first label disk tsk tsk, joking aside great job..
You noticed. I did that with the finger nail getting the washer off. Needs a touch up. :)
Aviation is a particular case of a million unnoticed successes and a few spectacular failures. Boeing in particular seems to have cultural issues.
That is well put Jim.
I have seen 90* HDMI adapters.
I did, but thought I was being clever to avoid another connector by using that 90° cable. Not very smart :/
You're in danger of finishing this project. I wonder what that would feel like?
Did you see the Vulcan rocket launch? Shame the little lander won't be able to complete it's mission but at least the rocket works !
Yeah, it was a spot of good news for Boeing. Scott Manley did a good review.
I think if you ground at both ends of the shielding you could end up with ground loop problems.
Thanks Martin, Do you think commercial HDMI cables are only grounded at one end?
Commercial HDMI as well as RJ45 cables have their shield connected on both ends.
@@graealex That is the way I understand it as well. I was told when I studied IT if a shielded cable is not grounded at both ends that the shielding starts to act as a antenna...
@@HeimoVN Exactly. Also ground loops get formed when you have a) two devices at different ground potential, and b) an unbalanced signal where ground is part of the signal. Then current flows between the two devices, and the device interprets the ground current as part of the signal, for example you might get a 50 Hz hum on an unbalanced audio connection.
HDMI itself is differential, however there is also an I²C signal for EDID/DDC, however that references a separate pin 17 as Ground. If there was a ground loop, it would already be happening over pin 17.
Where you absolutely must not connect the shield on both ends is if there is a PE conductor in the cable. Then you must only connect shield to PE on one end, because you don't want fault currents running over the exposed shield.
@@graealex great info thanks...
=D
Thanks Mike.
@@RotarySMP one thing about the HDMI cable, I found with my high end monitor for gaming, that if I put it in a warm part of the house, it would get pretty warm and the backlight would tend to overheat. Pretty sure that's not your problem, but might want to monitor the temperature of your enclosure and provide some airflow if you find the temperature to be a bit high... just another thing to worry about with electronics... they give off heat and don't like to operate in a hot environment. =D
A plaster? Real fitters wrap their fingers in blue roll then hold it in place with black electrician tape
I weany I know :)
Worst part was it was finger for unlocking the laptop.
And sealing knife cuts with cyano acrylic glue.
My guess is cultural issue. Boeing has shifted to wokeism.
I think the cultural shift came with the shift to greed, from excellence.