I love how when the dragons are clearly interested in the product they go at the entrepreneur's throat over the valuation etc in an attempt to gain some leverage before making an offer. Textbook negotiating.
Especially when it's unproven and new. They don't get that u don't put a price on "potential" and "bright future". Dragons don't work on abstract, they work on tangibles
As you know they need to ask for a little more than they expect to be offered. The problem, as you say, is that they overdo it, partially because they are aware of the negotiating tactic and, unfortunately, because they are so impressed with their idea/product that they truly do believe it is worth significantly more than it actually is. As far as I can see they really do not appreciate the fact that the Dragons can create the success they want simply because they know everyone, and they carry a reputation for honesty and integrity it might take these people a lifetime to achieve.....if ever. In three words, 'they are naive.'
As soon as I heard this lad say '...we wana be a 100 million pound company and this is definitely achievable' immediately had me losing respect for him. And his valuation of his company at 2 million quid is delusional. He has no idea how difficult it is and the life commitment that is required to get a company to a value of 2 million quid, never mind 100 million. The guys naivety is pretty clear.
When he said that bit, I got worried. It rarely goes well when the entrepreneur says "there are other shareholders but they aren't here right now" because it means that there is less room for negotiations and the Dragons won't invest if they don't get a decent chunk.
They took investment elsewhere soon after filming at a lower valuation than the rejected offer. More recently issued a similar amount of shares for 'advertising airtime'. Now crowdfunding to pay the bills and the entrepreneur's stake has reduced to single digits %. Take it away Andrew… “They did give a good valuation and a good offer but we’re aiming higher”
A lot of pet care products are sold on sentimentality rather than usefulness and this looks no different. If my dog has been properly exercised, he sleeps for the rest of the time (except for eating). That device for measuring activity is a novelty I might use once and then forget. He didn't say how much it sells for, so it's hard to know how seriously to take it - for £10 it's possible but for £100 no way. Peter Jones was right about the £2 million company price tag.
I like how at the end under their breath that they say the product failed in a store already. Odds are the other share holders are at 40% and full of hot air running this intp the ground.
Interesting. Think if he had suggested 15% , they might just have gone along with that. They could see huge potential, especially if it had GPS tracker as well. Its all down to the battery.. He said it lasts a year, which is very good. Perhaps a motion generator added to it might help?
It's kinda shocking and odd they don't actually know how much it's actually getting used. I'm not aware of what else is on the market but to me it seems like a really good product
They are doing ok, but the problem is they never listened and used the data gathered. They are also using low-tech device, that's simply logging motion, instead of actual "tracking". While they are doing good, in 2020 the company is still nowhere near 2 mil.
According to companies house, in 2019 they had a turnover of ~2 million, with total current assets values at around 1/2 million. In 2020 however they have had some sort of share restructuring and new shareholders appointed.
@@Mogamishu Depends. It could be good because they're getting more capital to help fund expansion, growth, better technology etc. It could also mean they got desperate for money and couldn't get a loan to cover it so they had to dilute shares to cover it.
I don’t understand getting upset about high valuations by the entrepreneurs. Just make him an offer for a lower valuation what’s the big deal? All valuations are projections in the end and aren’t current values
It makes for a bad starting point for negotiation, especially when there are other shareholders not present with whom an upper limit has already been agreed
Also, Dragons Den and others like it have a rule, the person says they need 500k, they cannot accept anything less than 500k. So if their business is only worth 50k, in order to make that 500k worth the investment the dragon would need to take 100% of the company until their money is paid back. Valuations are largely based on what profits the company makes or has the potential to make. This is very very basic so you'll have to dig a little further but a 50k company will only make 50k profit to spread among the shareholders so at 500k investment it would take 10 years to get repaid. Not exactly a wise investment.
To me it sounds like the dragons are making up a nonexistent counter argument to attack and degrade an entrepreneur so they can manipulate them into thinking they are somehow wrong and accept an unfair offer. Which is fine if you recognize business is a dirty game, but to embarrass and portray entrepreneurs in such an unnecessarily negative light for the public to see is just cruel
Why didn't Peter Jones just make an offer as he sees fit based on his valuation? 9:10 He suggests 50-100k for 30% which means he thinks the business is worth about £250,000. Why didn't he just make that offer and leave it to Andrew to opt-in rather than walking out entirely? Interestingly, two other dragon value the company at around £750,000 (75000 for 10%), which demonstrates that Peter Jones is rather hawkish when it comes to these investments.
His valuation is based on his work he says at the start but he knows it's bullshit so doesn't dare say it to their faces as Peter used the key word - proprietary
Interesting, he stuck to his numbers, but does walk away with global exposure. Anyway, this was a long while ago. Wonder if he did well and what happened to the database?
Ridiculous valuation. People dont seem to understand that just because they have worked really hard on their company, it doesnt make it worth 1 or 2 mil
@@vader745 just watch dragons den Ireland and you will see what I mean. Those dragons are always trying to take 40-50% of the entrepreneur’s business. The uk dragons are fairly reasonable in my opinion.
Hi guys, im no good at Math at all or financial terms.. can someone explain when peter commented "you're evaluation is 2M pounds" where did the 2M ppounds came from? how do you get those numbers from 7.5% share on a 150K investment. thank you..
let's be honest the pet industry makes money out of using and abusing animals. anyone who engages in this industry or contributes as a consumer should have that on their conscience.
Why do the dragons always get annoyed when someone offers a low %, it clearly means theres room for a counter offer. Sure an offer of 1% which a few people come into the den with is just an insult, but 7.5% clearly has room to go higher
very generous offer 20% having sold just 1500 units? Still values the biz at 750k and that seems high!
4 года назад
I paused as she asked him if he want's to talk to the wall... the guy seriously over-valued his company since he hasn't ant patent or IP for that matter. The Dragon's can focus in on what he needs to get into the big markets. I'm looking at this like "He can work his butt off trying to continue doing what he's doing and break even or take the Dragons and get a jump-start on his launch into the hundred million dollar venture he believes his gadget would bring in. He's a fool to walk away, but why the other three owners did not come in with him makes no sense.
if a significant amount of people use this device/app and send pet data back to their servers, the potential money they could make by selling that data to pet food companies etc is huge. zuckerberg got rich by selling your data and advertisements
But as Peter pointed out there is nothing unique about the device/app/tech. If the big pet companies wanted they could just easily come out with their own device. And they'd be in a better market position with the funds and expertise to back it up. This guy is just a start up and didn't even understand the potential of the data he was just focused on the device until the Dragons pointed it out.
I love how when the dragons are clearly interested in the product they go at the entrepreneur's throat over the valuation etc in an attempt to gain some leverage before making an offer. Textbook negotiating.
Also they will find some flaws before making that offer.
How can someone look 16 and 56 at the same time
Called being a woman but looking like a guy.
@@samcook7046
Yep this seems to be the new norm now a days 🙄 god help our kids coming up 🙏
Fliqyy wtf???
@@fliqyy3257 absolutely true
@@fliqyy3257 tf??
Why do people always think overvaluing their business is somehow going to impress the dragons?
Especially when it's unproven and new. They don't get that u don't put a price on "potential" and "bright future". Dragons don't work on abstract, they work on tangibles
Because they value a company based on the potential THEY see...not a realistic CURRENT value.
As you know they need to ask for a little more than they expect to be offered. The problem, as you say, is that they overdo it, partially because they are aware of the negotiating tactic and, unfortunately, because they are so impressed with their idea/product that they truly do believe it is worth significantly more than it actually is. As far as I can see they really do not appreciate the fact that the Dragons can create the success they want simply because they know everyone, and they carry a reputation for honesty and integrity it might take these people a lifetime to achieve.....if ever. In three words, 'they are naive.'
In fairness he got an offer of a lifetime! The fairer combined offer could have been for somewhere in the region of 30-40%.
simply over ambition forgetting the reality check of their business and stages of growth
Deborah Meaden is the only Dragon who consistently actually WANTS to invest.
Peter makes offers a lot too, he just kind of rips people off when he does offer
I disagree. Its peter
This comment makes no sense.
@@masonmason3590 why not?
Your completely right if the business is in her wheel house she is always in. If the model isn't trash or they aren't in debt.
Peter: You'll live to regret that
Nick: Online
Deborah: Patent
Touker: Don't get out of bed for 10%
Sarah: Food and Alcohol
Jenny: I'm out.
Taj: VITAMINS
Hilary: Foot itch
Duncan: It's ridiculous and it's ludicrous and i'm oot!
@@Albimar17 🤣🤣🤣
I love Debra because she is respectful and balanced with her judgement of investments💕
Sarah always has a lovely smile when the entrepreneurs enter the Den.
She does... and also when she's turning them down. I like that. But she's more out than Jenny.
Yes ur right there, also i think if i was up to the task id give her it something fierce let me tell you.... oooosssshhhh
Should change your name to Eddie the Copy Cat
And she's got great legs 😘
She is so sweet
"premium feel or premium price?" love Deborah 😂
Andrew clearly didn't understand Peter's question about IP (intellectual property).
He did understand but he didn't have any
Bro you a troll🤣🤣🤣🤣
He thought he meant USP.
I didn’t understand the question but there again I’m only watching it on TV
@@johnmc3862 having a market ready product isn't USP though
Greyhound; eating 10 minutes, walking 20 minutes, sleeping 23.5 hours today.
So accurate!!
Maybe walking 17 mins, sprinting 3 mins, eating 20 mins, sleeping 23 hours and 20 minutes.
You sure you weren't sold a long legged cat?
Same although mine just stole my doughnuts from the table 😭😂
Newsflash : just because you put in a lot of work doesn’t make your company valuable. He looked like he was about to cry
I've watched so much Dragons Den on RUclips.... I've seen Jenny make a deal.
Hahaha
We have all seen her make a deal. That’s why she is there. Your post makes no sense
@@mateoclemons3579 woosh
Wow i.m jalours
Lies. Link or it didn't happen.
First we found out Touker won't even get out of bed for 2%. And now we know Touker won't roll up his sleeves for 7.5%!
Company is now worth about close to half a million quid so I’d say the dragons valuation was spot on
its net worth is half a million quid!
As soon as I heard this lad say '...we wana be a 100 million pound company and this is definitely achievable' immediately had me losing respect for him. And his valuation of his company at 2 million quid is delusional. He has no idea how difficult it is and the life commitment that is required to get a company to a value of 2 million quid, never mind 100 million. The guys naivety is pretty clear.
The company is worth 100bn now you wallaby
@@zeynepsaleh6487 why you lying?
and for that reason I was out I didn't even invest to watch till the end
@@zeynepsaleh6487 please share the name of the company.
Someone needs to remix these, cut out all of the vocals, and just have a 1 v 5 staring contest back and forth for like 5 minutes
Or 1 vs 1 with the audio from the Big Train staring contest sketches.
Lol that’d be great. Especially Deborah!!!
I’m on it
😅
Beautiful adorable Border Terrier’s! Fabulous family dog. We had one, Bonny, for 16 years. Always a pup! 🐕
"There's 4 founders in our company" I hope you're not including the 2 dogs in that lol
the two dogs are probably the ceos and they've added him on board to work with...
The dogs want 20% each
When he said that bit, I got worried. It rarely goes well when the entrepreneur says "there are other shareholders but they aren't here right now" because it means that there is less room for negotiations and the Dragons won't invest if they don't get a decent chunk.
They took investment elsewhere soon after filming at a lower valuation than the rejected offer. More recently issued a similar amount of shares for 'advertising airtime'. Now crowdfunding to pay the bills and the entrepreneur's stake has reduced to single digits %. Take it away Andrew… “They did give a good valuation and a good offer but we’re aiming higher”
A lot of pet care products are sold on sentimentality rather than usefulness and this looks no different. If my dog has been properly exercised, he sleeps for the rest of the time (except for eating). That device for measuring activity is a novelty I might use once and then forget. He didn't say how much it sells for, so it's hard to know how seriously to take it - for £10 it's possible but for £100 no way. Peter Jones was right about the £2 million company price tag.
I like how at the end under their breath that they say the product failed in a store already. Odds are the other share holders are at 40% and full of hot air running this intp the ground.
Sarah Meadon doesn't have dogs: *scary music intensifies*
Debra: "Personally I think it's great" *uplifting music*
Sarah Meadon??
Jennifer Harper-Christas aye.....Duncan Jones half sister she is
Deborah Willingham
*PitPatPet* Est. Annual Revenue
$5M Est. Employees 60. Since the show they’ve increased sales 5x and added a calorie tracker.
Yep.. Wow it's rare to see businesses succeed
Interesting. Think if he had suggested 15% , they might just have gone along with that. They could see huge potential, especially if it had GPS tracker as well. Its all down to the battery..
He said it lasts a year, which is very good.
Perhaps a motion generator added to it might help?
Source?
It's kinda shocking and odd they don't actually know how much it's actually getting used. I'm not aware of what else is on the market but to me it seems like a really good product
They are doing ok, but the problem is they never listened and used the data gathered. They are also using low-tech device, that's simply logging motion, instead of actual "tracking".
While they are doing good, in 2020 the company is still nowhere near 2 mil.
It's basically impossible to build an app and not have usage data. The data is there, he just doesn't know how to tap it maybe...
@@xhyhbdka Nah, you don't have to log stuff to make an app.
"do you want to go and talk to the wall??"hmmm hmmm haaaaa
I think he took it as a joke, lol
Jenny: I don't like dogs and these freebies are not edible so am out.
Actually Jenny loves dogs.... she's out cause she has taken them for a walk
After hearing his voice first I was stunned to see he was older than 14
He?? I thought it was a she... or are we not allowed to say that anymore?
@@swift2765 Definitely was a she originally
@@SiLoMixMaster Just what I thought too!
balls haven't dropped yet
Magne M LOOOOOOL
"Its not exploited yet" "Imagine an app that gives you recommendations based on pet food"
"Your dog likes beef bites so how about some beef jerky?!"
According to companies house, in 2019 they had a turnover of ~2 million, with total current assets values at around 1/2 million. In 2020 however they have had some sort of share restructuring and new shareholders appointed.
Is that good or bad?
@@Mogamishu Depends. It could be good because they're getting more capital to help fund expansion, growth, better technology etc. It could also mean they got desperate for money and couldn't get a loan to cover it so they had to dilute shares to cover it.
The dragons made a very good offer considering how underdeveloped the product is
So the mystery is solved! The lift really doesnt move up or down
How do you know?
150k for 7.5 percent, I swear these people have never watched this show 😂
Free publicity. Only reason I can think of haha
2 million pounds is a dogs nightmare
I mean, if the business goes to make 100s of millions, I don’t think 150k for 7.5% would be a problem...
@@xMagnumTVx Absolutely not and i'd buy into that all day long! However, you dont have a cast iron crystal ball!
Touker doesnt get out of bed for 7.5 percent.
"Do you want to go and talk to the wall?"
Subtext: "Go and talk to the wall (and then give a different answer)."
This clip felt much more obviously edited than the usual videos for some reason
Did some publicity for the product and saved his business, for me that's a good deal.
I don’t understand getting upset about high valuations by the entrepreneurs. Just make him an offer for a lower valuation what’s the big deal? All valuations are projections in the end and aren’t current values
It makes for a bad starting point for negotiation, especially when there are other shareholders not present with whom an upper limit has already been agreed
People get upset the same way at ball parks when they see one plastic cup of watered down beer costs nearly $10.
Also, Dragons Den and others like it have a rule, the person says they need 500k, they cannot accept anything less than 500k. So if their business is only worth 50k, in order to make that 500k worth the investment the dragon would need to take 100% of the company until their money is paid back.
Valuations are largely based on what profits the company makes or has the potential to make. This is very very basic so you'll have to dig a little further but a 50k company will only make 50k profit to spread among the shareholders so at 500k investment it would take 10 years to get repaid. Not exactly a wise investment.
To me it sounds like the dragons are making up a nonexistent counter argument to attack and degrade an entrepreneur so they can manipulate them into thinking they are somehow wrong and accept an unfair offer. Which is fine if you recognize business is a dirty game, but to embarrass and portray entrepreneurs in such an unnecessarily negative light for the public to see is just cruel
Mind games - when they start attacking the evaluation its the starting point for negotiation
Some dragon den pitches are just insane. 2million pound for that.
This guy was an ass. With only 1500 units sold this was a ridiculous valuation. Im surprised the dragons didn't chew him up even more.
Tobey Maguire looks a bit different since he quit acting and got into the pet business.
Yes I'm glad someone else thought that
looks nothing like him
Look like an older Tom Holland
“Can I not have mine delivered by a dog” so posh lol 😭
Sarah "It's just not for me" Willingham
I liked what peter said at the end. You guys saved £150k
He clearly hasn't watched the show. He didn't even talk to the wall.
more to the point - he should have had the other shareholders on speed dial..
Bahaha
This is ridiculous. Why would a dog need a mobile phone?
agreed. and it doesn't even have 4G
@@Terry_Frost dogs only like phoned with 5G.
To call bech
Er...sorry but was you watching a different episode here? 🤔 The product wasn't a mobile phone for a dog. It was a neck band tracker.
@@ashleelmb but you need a mobile phone to use it
Why didn't Peter Jones just make an offer as he sees fit based on his valuation? 9:10 He suggests 50-100k for 30% which means he thinks the business is worth about £250,000. Why didn't he just make that offer and leave it to Andrew to opt-in rather than walking out entirely?
Interestingly, two other dragon value the company at around £750,000 (75000 for 10%), which demonstrates that Peter Jones is rather hawkish when it comes to these investments.
No one gives more straightforward advice and criticism than Peter Jones.
So how much is this company worth now?
2 billion
It went to the dogs in 2019
@@Terry_Frost 2 billiiion dogs
Sixteen million Ugandan Dollars
£50 Billion rupees
"Touker time" sounds dodgy
So does everyone on these videos' comments making the exact same comment year in and year out.
Does it come with a happy ending though?
Only if u offer 69% of ur company
First line - my valuation might be high..
Me - here we go.
This title evoked my curiosity. Well done.
Touker forgot to mention his office space!
Anybody else think that that lift does not move? Doesn't seem like there's a big enough gap between the platform and the floor of the lift... 🤷🏻♀️
WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU'RE NOT SPYING ON YOUR CUSTOMERS???
Who watches this while having lunch?
Jenny could have gone on Deal or no deal but she was out.
When ur dogs looking for those hard gains
His valuation is based on his work he says at the start but he knows it's bullshit so doesn't dare say it to their faces as Peter used the key word - proprietary
Interesting, he stuck to his numbers, but does walk away with global exposure. Anyway, this was a long while ago. Wonder if he did well and what happened to the database?
Ridiculous valuation. People dont seem to understand that just because they have worked really hard on their company, it doesnt make it worth 1 or 2 mil
The title 😂😂😂 the one who wrote seems to either be really bored and tryna have fun or he has a grudge against the dragons 😂😂😂
Click bait-y ! 🤔 ..
Nick Jenkins is first to take the lead. Love the more subtle puns!
Hes a nightmare with his puns 😂😂😂
The UK drangons are always very fair.
Totally agree.
how so ?
@@vader745 just watch dragons den Ireland and you will see what I mean. Those dragons are always trying to take 40-50% of the entrepreneur’s business. The uk dragons are fairly reasonable in my opinion.
@@ollyrhys1989 fair call, actually agree the English Dragons are fair, just wanted your perspective
Yea, the valuation was barking mad.
He has never been the same since his hit single 'Walking in the Air'' . . . .
That deserves more than 7 likes Xx
The captions say PIZZA JONES
Ffs this comment again
lol you're right
lmfao
Shuddupya face Paul
🍕
Lad come up with an app but appears not to understand what I.P. is 😬
6:54 I didn’t know Trish Stratus was a dragon 😜
JENNY: "I'll tell you where I am. I'm in Banbury Waterstones making a hat out of Costa Prize stickers."
“Our valuation may be high”
Me: “have you never watched the show before?”
This guy answered a question nobody is asking.
But does it give a bark count?
He will seriously regret that decision
Products like this are so cruel
They should be banned
How is it cruel
@@benthompson8256 Didn't you hear him say it delivers high voltage electric shocks if the dog fails to meet its daily step count targets? (Jk)
Hi guys, im no good at Math at all or financial terms.. can someone explain when peter commented "you're evaluation is 2M pounds" where did the 2M ppounds came from? how do you get those numbers from 7.5% share on a 150K investment. thank you..
100% / 7.5% = 13.333 | 13.333 * $150,000 = $2,000,000
Surprised Nick didn’t just go it alone for 12.5%
I think they know I watch Dragon's Den at launch time, so they upload at the right time
What are you launching?
Well, you do sound like a space-cadet, so I'm not surprised you're launching.
@@ultimanecat3091 It's not rocket science
I love these replies
Well golly, awesome stuff cadet. Happy landings, and let us know if u achieved lift off
the fact he turned down that offer tells me that buisiness will crash or already has crap
Jenny: I'm sitting in this chair so I'm out.
I JUST SAW A MAN WITH NO LIPS!!
Woman*
let's be honest the pet industry makes money out of using and abusing animals. anyone who engages in this industry or contributes as a consumer should have that on their conscience.
dogs lives matter
Decent offer, should have taken it.
Didn't actually care how this went cause once I knew it existed I wanted one. If I have to wear one, so does my dog.
How the hell do you go on dragons den without the ability to answer what your IP is?
‘In face of a dogged Peter Jones’ Dear god.
They value their business at £2 million
Classic example of an advertising only pitch, obviously wasn't interested in making a deal with a 2 million valuation for a dog app
Dragons they’ll always be wondering.... Why Do these people come With such low requests if they prefer Money without help from an Investor .
I havent seen dragons den in awhile and I forgot how deep pete Jones can just ask a question
Why do the dragons always get annoyed when someone offers a low %, it clearly means theres room for a counter offer. Sure an offer of 1% which a few people come into the den with is just an insult, but 7.5% clearly has room to go higher
Because they are always looking to screw the investor.
I hadnt noticed the collars on the dog till he mentioned
very generous offer 20% having sold just 1500 units? Still values the biz at 750k and that seems high!
I paused as she asked him if he want's to talk to the wall... the guy seriously over-valued his company since he hasn't ant patent or IP for that matter. The Dragon's can focus in on what he needs to get into the big markets. I'm looking at this like "He can work his butt off trying to continue doing what he's doing and break even or take the Dragons and get a jump-start on his launch into the hundred million dollar venture he believes his gadget would bring in. He's a fool to walk away, but why the other three owners did not come in with him makes no sense.
6:00...palms are sweaty, knees are shakin, vomit on my sweater already fr moms spaghetti lol
Looks like David Cameron in the screen cap!
@Joe Ayres it does bad lol
Touker, want 7.5% of Google? "7.5% doesn't give me enough incentive to roll up my sleeves."
Deborah 'Do you want to go talk to the wall' Meadon
if a significant amount of people use this device/app and send pet data back to their servers, the potential money they could make by selling that data to pet food companies etc is huge. zuckerberg got rich by selling your data and advertisements
But as Peter pointed out there is nothing unique about the device/app/tech.
If the big pet companies wanted they could just easily come out with their own device. And they'd be in a better market position with the funds and expertise to back it up.
This guy is just a start up and didn't even understand the potential of the data he was just focused on the device until the Dragons pointed it out.
You're repeating what was already said
Its not GPS tracking is it? Just activity tracking?
Tom Holland's older brother here has got some cooky ideas about what his company's worth.
I’ve never seen an actual man look, and even sound more like K.D. Lang, just with an English accent in my entire life haha 😂