Awesome video! I finally have a decent understanding of balanced signal and why an XLR to 3.5mm adaptor isn't the solution for my camcorder. I have Tascam DR-40 and DR-60D mkII recorders and mostly use dual sound anyway, but this was very helpful information. And you presented it in a way that is easy to understand. Thanks!
I'm teaching myself everything I can about filming and this was a great basic explanation introduction to audio balance and why somethings may not sound right and how to fix in post. I know audio is one of the hardest and complex parts of filming, so this is was great. I am about to film something I haven't yet this evening and audio is very important for me, this video really helped me understand what else I need to know and for tonight and that I need to spend more time learning audio in the near future, that I already knew but now I have a better understanding of what to learn more about on the technical end of audio and the various equipment.
Yours is simply the best explaination and tutorial on the matter, bravo ! With an expanding market, plus more and more photo cameras (DSLR then mirrorless) recording videos, we now can find actual solutions to this mind-boggling problem. For instance, Sennheiser created their KA 600 cable, but others exist too. There are even TRRS versions, for your smartphone recording sessions ("KA 600 i" in the Sennheiser range).
Excellent. I have mid level knowledge base. Still, I learned some great new things. Love just how clear yet comprehensive you are. Thank you, you are providing a beneficial service to us all.
I’m trying to run my cannon rebel sl2 to my scarlet solo. I’m using a 20ft auvio brand 1/8 3.5 mm to rca phono. My mic is a sure pga 58. I’m getting a terrible buzz and no sound. What am I doing wrong?
To clarify: are you connecting the Shure mic to the Scarlett and then trying to run the output of the Scarlet into the Rebel camera, ie so the camera records sound from the mic via the Scarlet? I don't have the Scarlet but this sounds all wrong. The Solo is a USB mic interface designed to connect microphones into a PC via USB. It's not designed as a mic interface to a camcorder.
Thanks for this! I actually just bought a cable that is already wired as you suggest at the end.. its made specifically for using a mic (sm 58 etc) with a camcorder or what ever (Im in Canada)
EXCELLENT VIDEO ... CLEARED UP A LOT OF ISSUES I WAS HAVING. Plus you have a great sounding voice .... clarity .... pronunciation .... not like the average video on here which makes me wish I could shove knitting needles into my ear :)
I use an 'iRig Pre' to connect balanced mics to unbalanced inputs. It provides 48V Phantom Power and converts from balanced to un-balanced. The Phantom Power can be switched off for use with a dynamic microphone. It is intended for use with smartphones and is fitted with a TRRS plug, but adapters are available to convert it to a TRS connector. The unit contains a clean pre-amp so the gain of the camera can be set to a low level to reduce the noise level. They cost about £25 -£30.
+jaymachik Thanks. I must confess I didn't realise they were that cheap. Are you sure they're doing a proper balanced-unbalanced conversion (rather than mere pin-pin matching without debalancing?). I also didn't realise you could use those on non-Apple devices. Good tip!
+jaymachik Hmmm yes but there's debalancing (properly) and then there's simply taking one of the pins (which looks like debalancing but isn't). Anyway, still useful to know!
Wait, I'm confused. If you just use a XLR to stereo converter box, to record with your external camera, aren't you STILL in the situation where you can get interference from the line out to the camera? That can still pick up interference on the line.
You are correct but that connection is usually just a couple of inches so vastly reducing the chances of stray pickup. Longer cables = worse pickup. A true XLR camera input is better!
Considering the post-processing solution of muting one of the input channels out (which were, of course, originated from a single mono mic), can’t a post-processing solution be taken a step further, as suggested in the comment by Paddywack Arts, by flipping one of the channels then mixing them together, which in theory should cancel out the flipped interference pickup effectively making it a manual-balancing solution?
4 года назад
So I should wire my cable in the bad way to get this benefit then? I wish someone would test this out, if its worth it or just having one channel unbalanced is better.
To clarify: this should work as long as the source is balanced (ie you have a mono signal being sent down two wires (the L and R of XLR), identical other than one being the mirror image of the other) and you record those channels separately in the camcorder (ie as stereo, not a mono mix) Then you can flip one side in post (either L or R, it wouldn't matter) and mix them to mono, which would remove any interference, and thus a balanced input to the computer / camcorder isn't required.
That was a really educational video. You have explained a complex subject in easy to grasp steps. Finally I understand the concept and purpose of balance. Thank you so much!
Would have been like to have heard more about the little boxes. I got this plug that fits into the camera and the other end is a XLR. From what you are saying I wasted my money, right ?
Not necessarily wasted as such, it may well do the conversion in the sense of taking one signal wire from the XLR and putting it onto the L & R wires in the 3.5mm jack but it won't have any of the benefits of the XLR system in terms of rejecting unwanted noise spikes in the signal.
Hi TubeShooterMag - Thank you for the helpful info. Question re: your advice: "There are lots of options, depending on your budget, from simple units designed to interface XLR mics to camcorders (such as the Beachtek or JuicedLink interfaces) or you can buy a proper portable audio mixer which will give you more flexibility (at a cost)" The JuicedLink "Riggy-Micro Dual XLR Pre-amplifier with Phantom Power" will work. I found a Behringer Xenyx 1204USB Premium 12-Input 2/2-Bus Mixer available as well (it's half the price). Is their an advantage to the JuicedLink or the Behringer? Please feel free to suggest any other devices. Thanks again for the great advice!
I don't know the Behringer device other than it isn't a field mixer and if it's 12 input it's going to be quite large which will restrict use to tabletop settings. I know you're doing a podcast but can you guarantee you'll never interview people ad-hoc standing up? And the model number suggests it's a USB device for plugging into a PC, albeit that it might also have a 3.5mm output jack (does it?) to go into your Sony. As regarding other kit, I stand by my earlier suggestion of buying the Zoom H4n. Less cabling, not costly and no fiddling around with multiple devices.
Someone volunteered me to record a preacher man. How do I set up the mic. ? What I had in mind was to take my Audio-Technica AT2020 set it up at the podeum. Run a XLR cable to the Yamaha mixer out of the mixer into my Cannon GL2. Will this work ? The camera an mixer will be 20 - 30 feet away. The mixer has RCA ports, that send the signal out. I know Jack about this stuff. But I was thinking, the mixer would do what ever it does to the signal. An then plug it into the camera. I have a yamaha mg10xu mixer. So what type of 3.5MM plug do I use ? one with a single ring or one that has a double ring for stereo ?
Soldier1287 Crikey - Rode generally *are* the budget choice (compared to Sennheiser etc). I'm not sure what to suggest to you - there comes a point where if you pay too little you simply get rubbish.
How do you get Phantom power to the microphone, or are you only using microphones that have their own power included in their build? If it didn't then do the black boxes with XLR inputs provide phantom power as well? Its a great video and you think you have very eloquently tackled a much misunderstood issue. All the best.
All the camcorders I use (that I would use an XLR mic with) have XLR inputs and provide phantom power. Be careful with the black boxes, *some* provide phantom power (you can usually tell because they'll be battery powered) and some don't. Eg Beachtek make both passive and active versions, only the latter gives phantom power. Double beware - I saw a product recently that appeared to be a proper balancing box but which I strongly suspect was nothing more than a pure wired connection in a box which is a bit deceptive.
Thank you for this.. I have been trying to fix the same issue but without of help...am using a Gh5 and a Rode mic g2 directly from my camera, after post production it sound like cartoons talking to each other.
Hello, great video, I learned a lot. I am looking to record interviews using my Sony PCM-M10 recorder. It has a line in and I believe it is intended to accept balanced stereo. I need to connect two XLR microphones to this recorder. I think I need a portable microphone preamp with headphone monitor and phantom power for the mics. Can you recommend a way to do this? I want to conduct podcast interviews with two people, which is why I'm planning to use two XLR mics. Thanks in advance.
The line input is, I believe an UNbalanced stereo 3.5mm minijack. You are correct in that you will need a dual-XLR mic pre-amp, and it will need a stereo unbalanced 3.5mm output at (consumer) line level. There are lots of options, depending on your budget, from simple units designed to interface XLR mics to camcorders (such as the Beachtek or JuicedLink interfaces) or you can buy a proper portable audio mixer which will give you more flexibility (at a cost) But alternatively - probably much easier, cheaper and better - is to buy a different recorder with XLR inputs already on it, like a Zoom H4n as this would mean you weren't holding and cabling up two devices (the more things you chain together, the more likely it is that one of the cables will fall out!) and saves you carrying batteries for multiple devices. Suitable beachtek products include beachtek.com/dxa-slr-ultra/ beachtek.com/dxa-hdv/ (more compact but no metering)
Excellent video! I have a question. If I use an XLR mic and cable and also use an XLR box (BeachTek DXA-2T) to then plug into a 3.5mm jack of a camcorder, say a Canon HF R400, will the camcorders Automatic Gain control become a problem especially if i cant disable the ACG? In other words would the ACG negate the quality and control of using the XRL mic and box?
David Harmon It wouldn't negate it because the benefits of XLR (balanced) audio with respect to rejecting unwanted electronic noise pickup would still exist. However it would not be ideal because AGC is a horrid thing. But balanced audio into AGC is still better than unbalanced audio into AGC as you're getting rid of one of the two factors in poor audio. I'm fairly sure - not 100% - that you can turn off the AGC in an HF-R400 though.
That's helped out massively, just one question, no damage is done to the camera if you plug the XLR adaptor in is there? Quality dims or any hardware issues?
You mean the basic XLR to 3.5mm adapter (with no balancing involved)? No, no damage will be caused but, as explained, you lose all the benefits of the balanced signal so it's a terrible way to do things.... ;-)
this was really informative. I use a rode video mic pro just so i don't have to bother with xlr to stereo adapters but this was great information. always great to learn from a pro!
If I had a condenser microphone (Nt1-a by Rode), then would the previous method of the XLR to mini-jack work if I wanted to connect it up to my camera (Canon sx-60 HS)? I ask this because I don't know if the Nt1-a is balanced or mono... does that make sense? I don't know much about this, sorry. And it was a really good video, btw.
TheXtra Mile Hi. Hmm, well firstly let me just clarify that "balanced" and "mono" are not diametric options. A mic is not one "or" the other of those. Indeed, many professional mics such as camcorder shotguns and lapel mics are mono AND balanced. The NT1A is just such a mic. Mono and balanced. I cannot bring myself ever to recommend connecting a professional mic, especially one so lovely as the NT1A, to anything using an XLR to minijack. Did you not watch the video?!! :-) It's a terrible idea as you lose all the benefits of the balancing process. *Much* better to buy one of the adapters I mention at the end - you've already paid for a lovely camera and mic, why ruin it with crappy audio?
Great video. Can you suggest an external mic for a Sony HDR PH810? I am not looking for professional sound quality. Just something that will let me interview people and do my own voice overs on footage shot in noisy environments. E.g. recording my children's school concerts without picking up all the audience noise and interviews in a busy shop. Hope someone can help. The external mic input is a small green hole. There is also a "multi" slot that I dont know what to do with
I can't give any recommendations if I don't know your budget...? Regardless, bear in mind there is no magic mic, even professional ones, that will magically not pickup audience noise or background noise, without the correct placement. For example, even a great shotgun mic would pick up some of the audience if you were sitting some rows back (because it will pick up what's in front of it). Sure, it will be better than an omnidirectional mic but my point is don't expect miracles. Microphone like to be close to their subject.
Having no idea where in the world you are, I can't sensibly answer. Suggest you Google Beachtek and Juiced Link and see which local / mail-order suppliers come up or email the firms asking for details of their local stockist.
I am a novice for recording. I have AKG presenter set that contains PT 45 (Bodypack transmitter), SR 45 (Stationary Receiver-has 2 pin power connector) & CK 99L (Clip-on microphone). SR-45 contains 1 balanced 1/4" TS female and 1 unbalanced XLR male ports. I want to record my voice in DSLR (3.5 mm jack) & in Windows PC (for backup and to do picture-in-picture post production work). I also have a copper wire filter (still unused). I face humming problem from 1/4 to 3.5 mm in both PC and DSLR though cable size is just 2 feet & camera is on battery so I doubt that this grounding loop problem. Please guide me what cables I should purchase. Shall I purchase XLR one In two Out Splitter & then XLR to USB for PC and XLR to 3.5 for DSLR? Am I supposed to use copper filter? There is no humming when in-built microphone of DSLR is used but I don't want to use that.
I very much doubt the XLR output is unbalanced. The whole point of XLR connections is that they are balanced. I'm not sure what you mean by copper wire filter. Is that one of the little circular wound things with an iron core, that normally goes over one end of the cables? Your issue, as I explained in this video, is that you're trying to connect a balanced output from the receiver to unbalanced inputs on the PC/camera. To do this properly is more than just a cable. Also, splitting signals by wire is never a good idea without proper amplification to counter signal loss. Also, recording audio onto a DSLR will almost inevitably be poor - they typically have terrible audio amplifiers, full of noise and nasty automated gain and basic limiters. The humming may come from the power to the receiver unit. My advice would be to buy something like a Zoom H4n and record the audio from the receiver into that then sync to the video in post production. Alternatively, buy one of the adapters mentioned at the end of the video to get the audio into the DSLR if you really must use it for sound recording. For audio into the PC, something like the Shure XLR to USB audio unit would work,
Question: Is it possible to transform THROUGH SOFTWARE a wrongly-stereo audio track recorded from connecting a XLR mic through a 3,5 TRS plug into a computer audio imput? I suppose yes. One just has to take the "left" signal, (or the "right) one and invert it . and then somehow merge both signals into a mono track. Can one do this using Audacity for example? Thanks.
I have a question I am planning to buy a Sennheiser MKH 416 and use that on top of my Canon 80D will I be able to connect the mic and the camera directly or do I need some kind of amplifier or SLR adaptor for best possible audio quality
You cannot connect the Sennheiser directly to the Canon. The mic has XLR balanced output; the Canon has a 3.5mm unbalanced jack. You need an adapter as described in my video or a separate audio recording solution.
While in editing of a balanced to stereo audio clip that is out on phase, instead of muting an audio channel and pan center, try to pan both channels to the center and switch phase to one of the two audio channels. That is the digital way to make the audio balanced. That requires more explanation, search YT for balanced signal explanation. :D
Thanks for the video, I learned something, but I'm not sure how to apply it. I have a Sony HDR-PJ650 camcorder, and I just want to be able to find a remote mic which will work. right now when I use the external mic jack, there is no sound. Can you recommend a microphone which will work. I record public meetings, and stereo is unnecessary. I'm just looking for a microphone which will work, any suggestions...?
What mic are you using currently? Also, in your public meetings, are you able to take a sound feed from an audio mixer (PA system) or do you just need to point a mic at the participants? If the latter, whereabouts do you stand to operate the camcorder - near the speakers or further away?
I've a question - is this exactly the same when plugging an XLR-to-3.5mm into the Atomos Ninja Assassin or similar external recording device? I'm guessing the answer is 'yes', but I thought I'd check since I often get very different results when plugging, say, a Rode 3.5mm line into the camera body and the external recorder.
Yes, if the source is balanced on an XLR and you're plugging into an unbalanced input with the 3.5mm then it all applies. What do you mean by a Rode 3.5mm "line"? (wondering if there is some confusion about mic level and line level). Also, what sort of different results?
Thank you for a very informative video. Have you considered using a small recorder like Zoom h4n (or similar) for audio recording instead? I'm considering buying a G25 and a H4n in order to record interviews.
Hi, thanks for the comment. Yes, an external recorder is certainly one way to do it - especially for DSLRs whose microphone amplifiers tend to be terrible - though I prefer not to bother with having to sync up audio after filming if I can get away without it. Many camcorders actually capture perfectly decent sound, it's just a question of how to get the mics connected properly. Also, this video was in response to the specific question I've been asked several times.
My plan was to feed the line/headphone signal from the audio recorder to the video camera. I don't know if that would work, but otherwise I would just have to sync.
Thomas Høi So you're suggesting using the recorder more as a better quality pre-amp? This will only work if your camcorder / DSLR will accept a line level signal (for some it will definitely be too strong and overload ie distort the recording) and if you can turn down the input gain on the camcorder / DSLR sufficiently. So I'd tread carefully with that plan. I know, for example, the Canon HF-G25 camcorder can be switched to accept a (consumer) line level signal on the mic jack but most camcorders can't and I suspect most DSLRs can't either (though I am prepared to be proven wrong!)
Hi! Great video but I don't speak eng; I need to connect my shure57 to my action cam (sony hdr as15) can I use a simple XLR adaptor? Which jack it needs? 1, 2 or 3 rings? Thank you
It shouldn't matter as long as it's weird correctly (signal to tip, ground to the base, same signal or ground to a middle section if there is one). One XLR signal wired to ground.
awesome. Thank you. But how does it work the other way round. I want to plug in one of the 3.5 mm mics into a XLR audio recorder. I have got the VXLR from Rode which converts a Mono 3.5 mm mini-jack to a 3 pin XLR. Will there be no problem with the sound than? Is this a professional way to use a 3.5 mm mic with the audio recorder?
It's about as good as it gets. Bear in mind you don't get any balancing on this setup, you're purely adapting (in mechanical form) the unbalanced 3.5mm mic feed into a physical format suitable to plug into the XLR socket.
easy explanation for those that know electronics is comparing stereo jack to a RS-232 and a XLR to a RS-422 where it uses the same signal in 2 lines and it moves with noise at same level so it helps defeat noise.
it is better to make it right from the beginning, but if you already recorded it, you can check which channel has been recorded inverted, flip it and mix it with the non-inverted channel. the result is the same (noise cancelled wave).
True but note that that is only the case if it has been recorded as stereo; a lot of the XLR to 3.5mm cables simply either route one side of the signal to both L&R on a stereo minijack or use a mono minijack, in both cases thereby wiping out the inverted signal.
I use a NTG2 Rode mic with a tascam DR-60D on my recordings, but i want to do a little "vlogging" using my NTG2 since i do not want to buy another mic so if i conect it directly to my DSLR i will have to edit the sound in my video editing software to get good results am i right?
Gregorio Lopez Your DSLR is unlikely to accept the balanced mic signal from the NTG2 directly. You'd either have to add an XLR adapter such as those from JuicedLink or Beachtek, or lose the benefits of the balancing (as explained in this video) by just wiring up the pins of the mic to the DSLR 3.5mm unbalanced input. Not sure what you mean by having to edit the sound to get good results if you wire the mic directly to the camera; DSLR audio pre-amps usually sound pretty bad and you're unlikely to be able to clean the sound up much in editing - it's always very hard to edit sound to make it sound good once it's been recorded badly. You need to start by making a good recording. I would continue to record the audio into the Tascam while filming on the DSLR, then use the edit to synchronise the good recording off the Tascam with the picture off the DSLR.
Yes o may do that, but i read that there are some cables that converts mono audio input to stereo output and b&h recomends that cable for my shotgun mic i may Just buy one to try it
thnks for the video , one question i have a zoom h1 and a shtgun rode NTG2 which is MONO unbalanced my H1 does not have XLR inputs, can i attach my ntg2 rode using a xlr to 3.5mm adapter to my zoom h1? will i lose audio quality? thnk you!
The Rode is mono BALANCED. You can connect it that way but it's not optimal as I explained at the end of my video. You will lose the benefit of balancing ie you will be more likely to pick up stray electrical interference.
Good information. I have an Audio-Technica Pro 88 wireless mic system feeding into a Panasonic consumer camcorder with a 1/8" jack. I'm getting all kinds of interference. Making me nuts. For whatever reason, if I record at 2 or 3 AM, the audio is reasonably clear. The mic cable going into the transmitter is unbalanced but the cable going from the receiver into the camcorder is balanced. Is that the problem? Mixing unbalanced and balanced? You're saying that a Beachtek DXA-Pocket would solve the problem?
If the receiver is outputting a balanced signal yet you're feeding it to a 1/8th inch jack then whilst technically feasible to use that jack for a balanced signal, it almost certainly won't be wired as such (and if it is, you'll get not so much interference as a very thin, phasing sort of sound throughout the recording). Also, a consumer camcorder won't have a balanced input. So yes, you need either a cable which is wired such as to only use one hot pin from the XLR (plus ground) and it's feasible that the cable you're using is exactly this, or you need to use a full XLR cable into a Beachtek / Juiced LInk box (and the short unbalanced cable from there to the camcorder) That said - the interference - depending on what it is and what it sounds like - could be coming into the wireless transmission, as the unit you have is an analogue system so may pickup other people transmitting on the same channel. I presume you've tried switching channels? This would explain why the interference is less in the early morning - fewer other people also transmitting.
Thanks ever so... Switching channels didn't help. The mic cable seems to be acting as an antennae and picking up something nasty. But only in a specific spot. I've decided to ditch the wireless system altogether and go with a boom mic with an XLR cable. Plugged into a Behringer mixer then to a Beachtek with a 1/8" TRS going into the camcorder. I tried clipping a choke onto the end of the wireless mic cable close to the plug and it helped a little. But I think it's a directional 60hz hum (if there is such a thing). If I turn a certain way in the chair while filming a video, it picks it up. Bzzz-zat! Some kind of a beam with a narrow focus. It comes and goes and only after 4 or 5 AM. Maybe there's a HAM radio operator in the nabe although at that time of the morning it's dawn and they're shutting down... Thanks again for your informative reply. I
Could well be that hum, it's one of the most common types of interference picked up by unbalanced systems. The shorter you can keep the unbalanced part of the rig, the better (ie Beachtek to camcorder; if it's just a couple of inches, you should be OK as long as the rest is all balanced). And a wired connection will definitely help too.
Originally I was shooting videos standing in front of a white board. I was moving around a lot so wireless was the way to go. Zero interference. Great audio. Now I'm sitting in a chair inside a "U-shaped" desk arrangement. Surrounded by computers, monitors, speakers, printers, power strips, transformers, desk lamps, and so forth. I can't turn everything off. What's funny is when I get my wristwatch too near the lav mic I get a "oooozit!" So the mic itself is probably pulling in something; not just the cord. So I'm thinking an XLR hyper-cardioid mic on a boom might be the solution. Thanks again for your valuable input and I'll let you know...
Hello this was a very informative video. I had a quick question, I have made two attempts to hook up my C-01 Samson studio condenser microphone to a Canon 60D (dslr.) My first attempt was unsuccessful when I tried using phantom power to connecting it. The mic wouldn’t power on when we would connect the other wire to the cam. Second time, we used my Channel 8 mixer to connect an XLR to the camera and the other to the mic, it ended up working! However, we got so much static it was unbearable. Do you have any ideas as to how we messed it up? Both times we basically hooked up an XLR from the camera to the phantom power/mixer and had another XLR go from the mic to the power source. Also connecting the mic to the camera did nothing cause my Samson is a pretty big mic . Thank you for giving me the read
Firstly I'm baffled as to how you managed to connect up the mic with "one XLR" to the cam and "another XLR" to the power source, since the mic only has one XLR socket on it.... Secondly, even if you manage to feed it phantom power, if the mic is balanced (I don't know that model) and you're feeding it to the unbalanced input on a 60D, you'll get the issues described in this video unless you either use only one side of the XLR audio, or run it through a balanced-unbalanced converter.
TubeShooterMag first of all thank you for the reply! Okay let me clarify, I had a 3.5 mm Xlr connected from the camera to the mixer, a separate Xlr running from the mic to the other input of the mixer, and or phantom power in both cases I used two cables. So all you’re saying is I need one of those adapters to balance? Very helpful video brother
I'm even more confused now. Although it's technicall feasible to wire a 3.5mm jack in an XLR configuration, it wouldn't be normal. They're typically just unbalanced stereo and, since you're going to a mixer with it, that's how I would expect it to work. Then you mention "the other input of the mixer" implying that you've connected the camera to a mixer INPUT; that is the wrong way round, you need the OUTPUT of the mixer to feed into the camera. However, the output of the mixer is almost certainly at line level but your camera has a mic level input so you'll be massively overloading the camera. Either the camera needs to have a setting to handle line level inputs (I don't know if that model has) or you need to be able to feed a mic level output from the mixer (which is extremely unlikely) Phantom power from the mixer would only go up the mic inputs (in this case to the mic, assuming you have switched phantom power on on the mixer, and used the appropriate cable to the mic) In your case, you'd probably be better off doing as my video suggested at the end, namely either doing the "poor man's version" which is to get a cable that is XLR at the mic end, 3.5mm jack at the camera end and which leaves one pin of the XLR unconncted (strictly, connected to ground) so you are running an unbalanced lead, OR (better) buy something like a Beachtek or Juiced Link box to do the connection more correctly.
You're not suggesting using the audio from the DSLR when editing, are you? It will be terrible. Why do that when you can record clean audio on the Zoom? Much better. If you do connect them, just use the DSLR audio as a sync track to cut the Zoom audio onto.
Heber Ramos Hi. I've not tried the Indipro products (indeed, until you mentioned them I didn't know of them!). However, given the low price and the total lack of detailed information about the item on the Indipro website and their RUclips video, I suspect - and it is only a suspicion which I am happy to correct if I'm wrong - that these do NOT provide any de-balancing for the audio but are merely hard-wired connections between XLR and 3.5mm jack (effectively no more than a cable of the type I mention at the end of my video). As such, you're losing all the benefits of balanced audio, unlike the products from JuicedLink and Beachtek.
If the Zoom only has 3.5mm inputs, then you're losing the benefits of balancing, in which case the fewer connectors the better (in case of accidental disconnection) so go with the 3.5mm mic - but only if that mic is suitable for what you're recording, of course.
Hi can anyone recommend a good model to buy used - camcorder with full hdmi input I only need hd - it's for stage work so a 24 to 70 with some kind of AF being advantageous
Do you mean HDMI *output*? You'd have to be more precise about what kind of "stage work" you mean and whether you need full manual fuctions or auto capabilities etc in order for anyone to give you a sensible recommendation.
TubeShooterMag thanks for checking it out. Passive connection to cameras is not the best option as you know. Using a balanced transformer is not much better. My next Zoom H5 tutorial will be a jump up in quality. Having preamps helps a lot.
That's an interesting point; I've never done a direct comparison between a passive and powered balancing unit. From a pure "de-balancing" perspective they ought to have the same effect and therefore quality in terms of interference reduction. But the active unit with nice pre-amps would, as you say, give a better signal into a noisy receptor like a DSLR.
@@TubeShooterMag : I mean to say that it's disappointing to realize I'll need a box instead of a simple cord. Also, it appears Juicedlinked is out of business. Luckily the very model you picture here is for sale locally, used. Have you found that very one to be among the best and cleanest sounding? Thanks again for the explanation of this phenomenon.
Thank you. I didn't know Juiced Link had folded, that's a shame. I confess I've not actually tried the Beachtek boxes, I just know of their existence. A lot of people use them though so you should have no trouble finding plenty of reviews. Cheers
I appreciated the physics lesson but I was really trying to figure out how to use an XLR with a regular DSLR. sounds like the answer is a TASCAM or other
Much cheaper ($40) and lighter soln: iRig PRE. Also provides phantom 48V and gain control. I have one strapped (unobtrusively) to shockmount on my Canon G20. Gives me superior audio (with Audio Technica 875) than XA20 for half the price. Caveat: you have to Jerry rig the dumb-ass iPhone jack with a Y-splitter ($5) to separate the mic from the headphones. Another bonus: iRig PRE has a headphone female socket. More convenient than plugging headphones into camcorder/DSLR.
Pretty much the same but the input to a smartphone is likely a TRRS jack if it's an older phone (rather than TRS) or these days it'll be via a USB/Lightning interface so it depends what the input to that is.
It's deliberately on upside down and this is quite normal with those omni mics; it's to eliminate "pop" sounds from plosive syllables like "p" and "t". It won't muffle the sound by turning it like that.
Peter G Fair point and, at least in the case of DSLRs, that would generally give better sound quality than recording to the camera - but dealing with separate sound tracks not what this video is about. Having to deal with synchronising sound in the edit is not something everyone wants or has time to do. For those, who want to plug balanced audio straight into their camcorder, there is a need to understand how it works and how to do it properly!
TubeShooterMag Ok - i'm not trying to be an ass, but i'm a bit confused. If you have a camera with an unbalanced input, how would you go about connecting a mic to the camera, without converting the signal to unbalanced along the line? As i see it, the BeachTec has balanced inputs that recieves the signal from the often long leads that comes from the microphone. From there you connect it via an unbalanced output to the unbalanced input of the camera, via a shorter lead, that's less prone to interference? If i'm mistaken, could you explain how the BeachTek i different from the ZOOM H4. It also has balanced inputs, and both a balanced and an unbalanced output you can relay to whatever you like (it even has phantom power).
Peter G Orry - i'm mistaken. You need an inline signal attenuation cable to plug the output from the zoom into the camera (i think it's -25db). So i get your point.
Peter G Yes, that's correct. You're not misunderstanding at all. An unbalanced input doesn't "understand" a balanced signal so you have to either feed it one leg of the balanced signal from the originating mic (bad ie potential long cable run) or de-balance the signal as close to the camcorder as possible (ie with a Beachtek) and run a very short unbalanced cable to the camcorder which therefore has less likelihood of picking up interference.
Peter G That's a completely different issue to do with signal levels, nothing to do with balancing. I'm guessing (not having tried it) that the Zoom outputs a line level signal so you'd need to attenuate it down substantially to plug it into a mic input otherwise you'd overload that input and distort the sound.
A mixer may have balanced outputs in which case you run into the same connectivity issue. If it has unbalanced outputs then you can connect easily but be aware you run the risk of the cable from the mixer to the camcorder picking up any electrical glitches. The closer you get your "de balancer" (and hence the shorter the unbalanced cable run) to the camera the better.
+TubeShooterMag cool itd be kinda hard to carry a mixer around then if i wanted audio for dslr id have to save up for a stereo videomic pro iwanted an xlr microphone for vocals and maybe dslr audio too but iguess you cant really do that easily
Awesome video! I finally have a decent understanding of balanced signal and why an XLR to 3.5mm adaptor isn't the solution for my camcorder. I have Tascam DR-40 and DR-60D mkII recorders and mostly use dual sound anyway, but this was very helpful information. And you presented it in a way that is easy to understand. Thanks!
Just tell me how u connect it 😭
Blessed By The Best right
I'm teaching myself everything I can about filming and this was a great basic explanation introduction to audio balance and why somethings may not sound right and how to fix in post. I know audio is one of the hardest and complex parts of filming, so this is was great. I am about to film something I haven't yet this evening and audio is very important for me, this video really helped me understand what else I need to know and for tonight and that I need to spend more time learning audio in the near future, that I already knew but now I have a better understanding of what to learn more about on the technical end of audio and the various equipment.
Yours is simply the best explaination and tutorial on the matter, bravo !
With an expanding market, plus more and more photo cameras (DSLR then mirrorless) recording videos, we now can find actual solutions to this mind-boggling problem. For instance, Sennheiser created their KA 600 cable, but others exist too. There are even TRRS versions, for your smartphone recording sessions ("KA 600 i" in the Sennheiser range).
Great easy-to-understand explanation, well done! Excellent tutorial.
this is exactly what I was looking for thank you! And thank you for not having a long elaborate intro.
This was by far the best explanation/ advice I have come across while researching this topic. Thank you for sharing
Almost 4 years later and this video is still extremely helpful!
Thanks!
Thank you! Yes, this video should have an almost indefinite shelf life :-)
Excellent, elegant explanation of the balanced signal cancelling the noise.
Thank you
Excellent. I have mid level knowledge base. Still, I learned some great new things. Love just how clear yet comprehensive you are. Thank you, you are providing a beneficial service to us all.
sunny hill That's very kind of you to say; glad you found it useful. Cheers
Excellent explanation.
A further option is to flip (invert) one of the audio channels in post production.
I’m trying to run my cannon rebel sl2 to my scarlet solo. I’m using a 20ft auvio brand 1/8 3.5 mm to rca phono. My mic is a sure pga 58. I’m getting a terrible buzz and no sound. What am I doing wrong?
To clarify: are you connecting the Shure mic to the Scarlett and then trying to run the output of the Scarlet into the Rebel camera, ie so the camera records sound from the mic via the Scarlet?
I don't have the Scarlet but this sounds all wrong. The Solo is a USB mic interface designed to connect microphones into a PC via USB. It's not designed as a mic interface to a camcorder.
Thanks for this! I actually just bought a cable that is already wired as you suggest at the end.. its made specifically for using a mic (sm 58 etc) with a camcorder or what ever (Im in Canada)
EXCELLENT VIDEO ... CLEARED UP A LOT OF ISSUES I WAS HAVING.
Plus you have a great sounding voice .... clarity .... pronunciation .... not like the average video on here which makes me wish I could shove knitting needles into my ear :)
Haha, thank you very much! Glad it was useful.
Can we use to smartphone
You'd need a different 3.5mm connector with a "TRRS" tip instead of TRS but yes it's doable.
That was a really good explanation, and by the way, you have an excellent speaking voice.
Thank you very much!
I use an 'iRig Pre' to connect balanced mics to unbalanced inputs. It provides 48V Phantom Power and converts from balanced to un-balanced. The Phantom Power can be switched off for use with a dynamic microphone.
It is intended for use with smartphones and is fitted with a TRRS plug, but adapters are available to convert it to a TRS connector.
The unit contains a clean pre-amp so the gain of the camera can be set to a low level to reduce the noise level.
They cost about £25 -£30.
+jaymachik Thanks. I must confess I didn't realise they were that cheap. Are you sure they're doing a proper balanced-unbalanced conversion (rather than mere pin-pin matching without debalancing?). I also didn't realise you could use those on non-Apple devices. Good tip!
+jaymachik Hmmm yes but there's debalancing (properly) and then there's simply taking one of the pins (which looks like debalancing but isn't). Anyway, still useful to know!
Wait, I'm confused. If you just use a XLR to stereo converter box, to record with your external camera, aren't you STILL in the situation where you can get interference from the line out to the camera? That can still pick up interference on the line.
You are correct but that connection is usually just a couple of inches so vastly reducing the chances of stray pickup. Longer cables = worse pickup. A true XLR camera input is better!
Yeah. That was my assumption too. That it's short so less chance of interference
Far the best explanation about this subject. In general, you are a great instructor on anything/everything.
That's very kind if you to say, thank you!
fully agreed!
Considering the post-processing solution of muting one of the input channels out (which were, of course, originated from a single mono mic), can’t a post-processing solution be taken a step further, as suggested in the comment by Paddywack Arts, by flipping one of the channels then mixing them together, which in theory should cancel out the flipped interference pickup effectively making it a manual-balancing solution?
So I should wire my cable in the bad way to get this benefit then? I wish someone would test this out, if its worth it or just having one channel unbalanced is better.
To clarify: this should work as long as the source is balanced (ie you have a mono signal being sent down two wires (the L and R of XLR), identical other than one being the mirror image of the other) and you record those channels separately in the camcorder (ie as stereo, not a mono mix)
Then you can flip one side in post (either L or R, it wouldn't matter) and mix them to mono, which would remove any interference, and thus a balanced input to the computer / camcorder isn't required.
That was a really educational video. You have explained a complex subject in easy to grasp steps. Finally I understand the concept and purpose of balance. Thank you so much!
Glad you liked it. Cheers.
Would have been like to have heard more about the little boxes. I got this plug that fits into the camera and the other end is a XLR. From what you are saying I wasted my money, right ?
Not necessarily wasted as such, it may well do the conversion in the sense of taking one signal wire from the XLR and putting it onto the L & R wires in the 3.5mm jack but it won't have any of the benefits of the XLR system in terms of rejecting unwanted noise spikes in the signal.
Great way to explain concepts, the best on YT!
lasberla Thank you!
Hi TubeShooterMag - Thank you for the helpful info. Question re: your advice: "There are lots of options, depending on your budget, from simple units designed to interface XLR mics to camcorders (such as the Beachtek or JuicedLink interfaces) or you can buy a proper portable audio mixer which will give you more flexibility (at a cost)" The JuicedLink "Riggy-Micro Dual XLR Pre-amplifier with Phantom Power" will work. I found a Behringer Xenyx 1204USB Premium 12-Input 2/2-Bus Mixer available as well (it's half the price). Is their an advantage to the JuicedLink or the Behringer? Please feel free to suggest any other devices. Thanks again for the great advice!
I don't know the Behringer device other than it isn't a field mixer and if it's 12 input it's going to be quite large which will restrict use to tabletop settings. I know you're doing a podcast but can you guarantee you'll never interview people ad-hoc standing up? And the model number suggests it's a USB device for plugging into a PC, albeit that it might also have a 3.5mm output jack (does it?) to go into your Sony.
As regarding other kit, I stand by my earlier suggestion of buying the Zoom H4n. Less cabling, not costly and no fiddling around with multiple devices.
Excellently and professionally explained. I have a question if anyone here can answer it... Does the Beachtek box also provide phantom power to a mic?
Depends which one you buy. See their website.
Someone volunteered me to record a preacher man. How do I set up the mic. ? What I had in mind was to take my Audio-Technica AT2020 set it up at the podeum. Run a XLR cable to the Yamaha mixer out of the mixer into my Cannon GL2. Will this work ? The camera an mixer will be 20 - 30 feet away. The mixer has RCA ports, that send the signal out. I know Jack about this stuff. But I was thinking, the mixer would do what ever it does to the signal. An then plug it into the camera. I have a yamaha mg10xu mixer. So what type of 3.5MM plug do I use ? one with a single ring or one that has a double ring for stereo ?
What program were you using for editing. Thanks !
nazeebomar98 Sony Vegas Pro 12 (now upgraded to SVP 13)
I'm on a budget. I really want the Rode NTG 2 but I also wonder if there's a cheap XLR shotgun mic that is close to or almost as good as the RODE.
Soldier1287 Crikey - Rode generally *are* the budget choice (compared to Sennheiser etc). I'm not sure what to suggest to you - there comes a point where if you pay too little you simply get rubbish.
How do you get Phantom power to the microphone, or are you only using microphones that have their own power included in their build? If it didn't then do the black boxes with XLR inputs provide phantom power as well? Its a great video and you think you have very eloquently tackled a much misunderstood issue. All the best.
All the camcorders I use (that I would use an XLR mic with) have XLR inputs and provide phantom power. Be careful with the black boxes, *some* provide phantom power (you can usually tell because they'll be battery powered) and some don't. Eg Beachtek make both passive and active versions, only the latter gives phantom power.
Double beware - I saw a product recently that appeared to be a proper balancing box but which I strongly suspect was nothing more than a pure wired connection in a box which is a bit deceptive.
Thank you.
Thank you for this.. I have been trying to fix the same issue but without of help...am using a Gh5 and a Rode mic g2 directly from my camera, after post production it sound like cartoons talking to each other.
Hello, great video, I learned a lot. I am looking to record interviews using my Sony PCM-M10 recorder. It has a line in and I believe it is intended to accept balanced stereo. I need to connect two XLR microphones to this recorder. I think I need a portable microphone preamp with headphone monitor and phantom power for the mics. Can you recommend a way to do this? I want to conduct podcast interviews with two people, which is why I'm planning to use two XLR mics. Thanks in advance.
The line input is, I believe an UNbalanced stereo 3.5mm minijack. You are correct in that you will need a dual-XLR mic pre-amp, and it will need a stereo unbalanced 3.5mm output at (consumer) line level.
There are lots of options, depending on your budget, from simple units designed to interface XLR mics to camcorders (such as the Beachtek or JuicedLink interfaces) or you can buy a proper portable audio mixer which will give you more flexibility (at a cost)
But alternatively - probably much easier, cheaper and better - is to buy a different recorder with XLR inputs already on it, like a Zoom H4n as this would mean you weren't holding and cabling up two devices (the more things you chain together, the more likely it is that one of the cables will fall out!) and saves you carrying batteries for multiple devices.
Suitable beachtek products include
beachtek.com/dxa-slr-ultra/
beachtek.com/dxa-hdv/ (more compact but no metering)
Excellent video! I have a question. If I use an XLR mic and cable and also use an XLR box (BeachTek DXA-2T) to then plug into a 3.5mm jack of a camcorder, say a Canon HF R400, will the camcorders Automatic Gain control become a problem especially if i cant disable the ACG? In other words would the ACG negate the quality and control of using the XRL mic and box?
David Harmon It wouldn't negate it because the benefits of XLR (balanced) audio with respect to rejecting unwanted electronic noise pickup would still exist. However it would not be ideal because AGC is a horrid thing.
But balanced audio into AGC is still better than unbalanced audio into AGC as you're getting rid of one of the two factors in poor audio.
I'm fairly sure - not 100% - that you can turn off the AGC in an HF-R400 though.
That's helped out massively, just one question, no damage is done to the camera if you plug the XLR adaptor in is there? Quality dims or any hardware issues?
You mean the basic XLR to 3.5mm adapter (with no balancing involved)? No, no damage will be caused but, as explained, you lose all the benefits of the balanced signal so it's a terrible way to do things.... ;-)
this was really informative. I use a rode video mic pro just so i don't have to bother with xlr to stereo adapters but this was great information. always great to learn from a pro!
Thanks for the comment!
If I had a condenser microphone (Nt1-a by Rode), then would the previous method of the XLR to mini-jack work if I wanted to connect it up to my camera (Canon sx-60 HS)? I ask this because I don't know if the Nt1-a is balanced or mono... does that make sense? I don't know much about this, sorry. And it was a really good video, btw.
TheXtra Mile Hi. Hmm, well firstly let me just clarify that "balanced" and "mono" are not diametric options. A mic is not one "or" the other of those. Indeed, many professional mics such as camcorder shotguns and lapel mics are mono AND balanced.
The NT1A is just such a mic. Mono and balanced.
I cannot bring myself ever to recommend connecting a professional mic, especially one so lovely as the NT1A, to anything using an XLR to minijack. Did you not watch the video?!! :-) It's a terrible idea as you lose all the benefits of the balancing process.
*Much* better to buy one of the adapters I mention at the end - you've already paid for a lovely camera and mic, why ruin it with crappy audio?
Great video. Can you suggest an external mic for a Sony HDR PH810? I am not looking for professional sound quality. Just something that will let me interview people and do my own voice overs on footage shot in noisy environments. E.g. recording my children's school concerts without picking up all the audience noise and interviews in a busy shop. Hope someone can help.
The external mic input is a small green hole. There is also a "multi" slot that I dont know what to do with
I can't give any recommendations if I don't know your budget...?
Regardless, bear in mind there is no magic mic, even professional ones, that will magically not pickup audience noise or background noise, without the correct placement. For example, even a great shotgun mic would pick up some of the audience if you were sitting some rows back (because it will pick up what's in front of it). Sure, it will be better than an omnidirectional mic but my point is don't expect miracles. Microphone like to be close to their subject.
where can I buy the two boxes you've mentioned at he end of the video?
Having no idea where in the world you are, I can't sensibly answer. Suggest you Google Beachtek and Juiced Link and see which local / mail-order suppliers come up or email the firms asking for details of their local stockist.
I am a novice for recording. I have AKG presenter set that contains PT 45 (Bodypack transmitter), SR 45 (Stationary Receiver-has 2 pin power connector) & CK 99L (Clip-on microphone). SR-45 contains 1 balanced 1/4" TS female and 1 unbalanced XLR male ports. I want to record my voice in DSLR (3.5 mm jack) & in Windows PC (for backup and to do picture-in-picture post production work).
I also have a copper wire filter (still unused).
I face humming problem from 1/4 to 3.5 mm in both PC and DSLR though cable size is just 2 feet & camera is on battery so I doubt that this grounding loop problem.
Please guide me what cables I should purchase. Shall I purchase XLR one In two Out Splitter & then XLR to USB for PC and XLR to 3.5 for DSLR? Am I supposed to use copper filter? There is no humming when in-built microphone of DSLR is used but I don't want to use that.
I very much doubt the XLR output is unbalanced. The whole point of XLR connections is that they are balanced.
I'm not sure what you mean by copper wire filter. Is that one of the little circular wound things with an iron core, that normally goes over one end of the cables?
Your issue, as I explained in this video, is that you're trying to connect a balanced output from the receiver to unbalanced inputs on the PC/camera. To do this properly is more than just a cable. Also, splitting signals by wire is never a good idea without proper amplification to counter signal loss.
Also, recording audio onto a DSLR will almost inevitably be poor - they typically have terrible audio amplifiers, full of noise and nasty automated gain and basic limiters.
The humming may come from the power to the receiver unit.
My advice would be to buy something like a Zoom H4n and record the audio from the receiver into that then sync to the video in post production.
Alternatively, buy one of the adapters mentioned at the end of the video to get the audio into the DSLR if you really must use it for sound recording. For audio into the PC, something like the Shure XLR to USB audio unit would work,
ok thnx
Question: Is it possible to transform THROUGH SOFTWARE a wrongly-stereo audio track recorded from connecting a XLR mic through a 3,5 TRS plug into a computer audio imput?
I suppose yes. One just has to take the "left" signal, (or the "right) one and invert it . and then somehow merge both signals into a mono track. Can one do this using Audacity for example? Thanks.
I suppose it must be although I've never tried it. Seems entirely logical. Easier to just use the right kit from the start mind you :-)
Thanks for the reply :) But this equipment is kind of too expensive for me :(. is there anybody here who did it by software?
I have a question I am planning to buy a Sennheiser MKH 416 and use that on top of my Canon 80D will I be able to connect the mic and the camera directly or do I need some kind of amplifier or SLR adaptor for best possible audio quality
You cannot connect the Sennheiser directly to the Canon. The mic has XLR balanced output; the Canon has a 3.5mm unbalanced jack. You need an adapter as described in my video or a separate audio recording solution.
While in editing of a balanced to stereo audio clip that is out on phase, instead of muting an audio channel and pan center, try to pan both channels to the center and switch phase to one of the two audio channels. That is the digital way to make the audio balanced. That requires more explanation, search YT for balanced signal explanation. :D
Thanks for the video, I learned something, but I'm not sure how to apply it. I have a Sony HDR-PJ650 camcorder, and I just want to be able to find a remote mic which will work. right now when I use the external mic jack, there is no sound. Can you recommend a microphone which will work. I record public meetings, and stereo is unnecessary. I'm just looking for a microphone which will work, any suggestions...?
What mic are you using currently? Also, in your public meetings, are you able to take a sound feed from an audio mixer (PA system) or do you just need to point a mic at the participants? If the latter, whereabouts do you stand to operate the camcorder - near the speakers or further away?
very useful
I've a question - is this exactly the same when plugging an XLR-to-3.5mm into the Atomos Ninja Assassin or similar external recording device? I'm guessing the answer is 'yes', but I thought I'd check since I often get very different results when plugging, say, a Rode 3.5mm line into the camera body and the external recorder.
Yes, if the source is balanced on an XLR and you're plugging into an unbalanced input with the 3.5mm then it all applies.
What do you mean by a Rode 3.5mm "line"? (wondering if there is some confusion about mic level and line level). Also, what sort of different results?
Saramonic SR-AX115 Universal Audio Adapter with Dual XLR Inputs or ZOOM H4N? What to choose?
What camera or camcorder will you be connecting to and how important is ease of use versus time spent in post production?
Mark II or recording Zoom H1 . Ease of use and mobility are important
Thank you for a very informative video. Have you considered using a small recorder like Zoom h4n (or similar) for audio recording instead? I'm considering buying a G25 and a H4n in order to record interviews.
Hi, thanks for the comment. Yes, an external recorder is certainly one way to do it - especially for DSLRs whose microphone amplifiers tend to be terrible - though I prefer not to bother with having to sync up audio after filming if I can get away without it. Many camcorders actually capture perfectly decent sound, it's just a question of how to get the mics connected properly. Also, this video was in response to the specific question I've been asked several times.
My plan was to feed the line/headphone signal from the audio recorder to the video camera. I don't know if that would work, but otherwise I would just have to sync.
Thomas Høi So you're suggesting using the recorder more as a better quality pre-amp? This will only work if your camcorder / DSLR will accept a line level signal (for some it will definitely be too strong and overload ie distort the recording) and if you can turn down the input gain on the camcorder / DSLR sufficiently. So I'd tread carefully with that plan.
I know, for example, the Canon HF-G25 camcorder can be switched to accept a (consumer) line level signal on the mic jack but most camcorders can't and I suspect most DSLRs can't either (though I am prepared to be proven wrong!)
Hi! Great video but I don't speak eng; I need to connect my shure57 to my action cam (sony hdr as15) can I use a simple XLR adaptor? Which jack it needs? 1, 2 or 3 rings? Thank you
You can use a simple adapter but it's not the best because you lose the benefit of balancing. You need an XLR to 3.5mm cable.
TubeShooterMag thank you, and the 3.5 jack must has 2 or 3 Black Rings?
It shouldn't matter as long as it's weird correctly (signal to tip, ground to the base, same signal or ground to a middle section if there is one). One XLR signal wired to ground.
awesome. Thank you. But how does it work the other way round. I want to plug in one of the 3.5 mm mics into a XLR audio recorder. I have got the VXLR from Rode which converts a Mono 3.5 mm mini-jack to a 3 pin XLR. Will there be no problem with the sound than? Is this a professional way to use a 3.5 mm mic with the audio recorder?
It's about as good as it gets. Bear in mind you don't get any balancing on this setup, you're purely adapting (in mechanical form) the unbalanced 3.5mm mic feed into a physical format suitable to plug into the XLR socket.
easy explanation for those that know electronics is comparing stereo jack to a RS-232 and a XLR to a RS-422 where it uses the same signal in 2 lines and it moves with noise at same level so it helps defeat noise.
I wondered what RS422 was! Thanks for explaining. Cheers :-)
You're welcome
it is better to make it right from the beginning, but if you already recorded it, you can check which channel has been recorded inverted, flip it and mix it with the non-inverted channel. the result is the same (noise cancelled wave).
True but note that that is only the case if it has been recorded as stereo; a lot of the XLR to 3.5mm cables simply either route one side of the signal to both L&R on a stereo minijack or use a mono minijack, in both cases thereby wiping out the inverted signal.
I use a NTG2 Rode mic with a tascam DR-60D on my recordings, but i want to do a little "vlogging" using my NTG2 since i do not want to buy another mic
so if i conect it directly to my DSLR i will have to edit the sound in my video editing software to get good results am i right?
Gregorio Lopez Your DSLR is unlikely to accept the balanced mic signal from the NTG2 directly. You'd either have to add an XLR adapter such as those from JuicedLink or Beachtek, or lose the benefits of the balancing (as explained in this video) by just wiring up the pins of the mic to the DSLR 3.5mm unbalanced input.
Not sure what you mean by having to edit the sound to get good results if you wire the mic directly to the camera; DSLR audio pre-amps usually sound pretty bad and you're unlikely to be able to clean the sound up much in editing - it's always very hard to edit sound to make it sound good once it's been recorded badly. You need to start by making a good recording.
I would continue to record the audio into the Tascam while filming on the DSLR, then use the edit to synchronise the good recording off the Tascam with the picture off the DSLR.
Yes o may do that, but i read that there are some cables that converts mono audio input to stereo output and b&h recomends that cable for my shotgun mic i may Just buy one to try it
thnks for the video , one question i have a zoom h1 and a shtgun rode NTG2 which is MONO unbalanced
my H1 does not have XLR inputs, can i attach my ntg2 rode using a xlr to 3.5mm adapter to my zoom h1? will i lose audio quality? thnk you!
The Rode is mono BALANCED. You can connect it that way but it's not optimal as I explained at the end of my video. You will lose the benefit of balancing ie you will be more likely to pick up stray electrical interference.
Good information.
I have an Audio-Technica Pro 88 wireless mic system feeding into a Panasonic consumer camcorder with a 1/8" jack. I'm getting all kinds of interference. Making me nuts. For whatever reason, if I record at 2 or 3 AM, the audio is reasonably clear.
The mic cable going into the transmitter is unbalanced but the cable going from the receiver into the camcorder is balanced.
Is that the problem? Mixing unbalanced and balanced?
You're saying that a Beachtek DXA-Pocket would solve the problem?
If the receiver is outputting a balanced signal yet you're feeding it to a 1/8th inch jack then whilst technically feasible to use that jack for a balanced signal, it almost certainly won't be wired as such (and if it is, you'll get not so much interference as a very thin, phasing sort of sound throughout the recording). Also, a consumer camcorder won't have a balanced input.
So yes, you need either a cable which is wired such as to only use one hot pin from the XLR (plus ground) and it's feasible that the cable you're using is exactly this, or you need to use a full XLR cable into a Beachtek / Juiced LInk box (and the short unbalanced cable from there to the camcorder)
That said - the interference - depending on what it is and what it sounds like - could be coming into the wireless transmission, as the unit you have is an analogue system so may pickup other people transmitting on the same channel. I presume you've tried switching channels? This would explain why the interference is less in the early morning - fewer other people also transmitting.
Thanks ever so...
Switching channels didn't help.
The mic cable seems to be acting as an antennae and picking up something nasty. But only in a specific spot.
I've decided to ditch the wireless system altogether and go with a boom mic with an XLR cable. Plugged into a Behringer mixer then to a Beachtek with a 1/8" TRS going into the camcorder.
I tried clipping a choke onto the end of the wireless mic cable close to the plug and it helped a little. But I think it's a directional 60hz hum (if there is such a thing). If I turn a certain way in the chair while filming a video, it picks it up. Bzzz-zat! Some kind of a beam with a narrow focus. It comes and goes and only after 4 or 5 AM.
Maybe there's a HAM radio operator in the nabe although at that time of the morning it's dawn and they're shutting down...
Thanks again for your informative reply.
I
Could well be that hum, it's one of the most common types of interference picked up by unbalanced systems. The shorter you can keep the unbalanced part of the rig, the better (ie Beachtek to camcorder; if it's just a couple of inches, you should be OK as long as the rest is all balanced). And a wired connection will definitely help too.
Originally I was shooting videos standing in front of a white board. I was moving around a lot so wireless was the way to go. Zero interference. Great audio.
Now I'm sitting in a chair inside a "U-shaped" desk arrangement. Surrounded by computers, monitors, speakers, printers, power strips, transformers, desk lamps, and so forth. I can't turn everything off.
What's funny is when I get my wristwatch too near the lav mic I get a "oooozit!" So the mic itself is probably pulling in something; not just the cord.
So I'm thinking an XLR hyper-cardioid mic on a boom might be the solution.
Thanks again for your valuable input and I'll let you know...
Hello this was a very informative video. I had a quick question, I have made two attempts to hook up my C-01 Samson studio condenser microphone to a Canon 60D (dslr.)
My first attempt was unsuccessful when I tried using phantom power to connecting it. The mic wouldn’t power on when we would connect the other wire to the cam.
Second time, we used my Channel 8 mixer to connect an XLR to the camera and the other to the mic, it ended up working! However, we got so much static it was unbearable.
Do you have any ideas as to how we messed it up?
Both times we basically hooked up an XLR from the camera to the phantom power/mixer and had another XLR go from the mic to the power source.
Also connecting the mic to the camera did nothing cause my Samson is a pretty big mic . Thank you for giving me the read
Firstly I'm baffled as to how you managed to connect up the mic with "one XLR" to the cam and "another XLR" to the power source, since the mic only has one XLR socket on it....
Secondly, even if you manage to feed it phantom power, if the mic is balanced (I don't know that model) and you're feeding it to the unbalanced input on a 60D, you'll get the issues described in this video unless you either use only one side of the XLR audio, or run it through a balanced-unbalanced converter.
TubeShooterMag first of all thank you for the reply!
Okay let me clarify, I had a 3.5 mm Xlr connected from the camera to the mixer, a separate Xlr running from the mic to the other input of the mixer, and or phantom power in both cases I used two cables.
So all you’re saying is I need one of those adapters to balance?
Very helpful video brother
I'm even more confused now. Although it's technicall feasible to wire a 3.5mm jack in an XLR configuration, it wouldn't be normal. They're typically just unbalanced stereo and, since you're going to a mixer with it, that's how I would expect it to work.
Then you mention "the other input of the mixer" implying that you've connected the camera to a mixer INPUT; that is the wrong way round, you need the OUTPUT of the mixer to feed into the camera.
However, the output of the mixer is almost certainly at line level but your camera has a mic level input so you'll be massively overloading the camera. Either the camera needs to have a setting to handle line level inputs (I don't know if that model has) or you need to be able to feed a mic level output from the mixer (which is extremely unlikely)
Phantom power from the mixer would only go up the mic inputs (in this case to the mic, assuming you have switched phantom power on on the mixer, and used the appropriate cable to the mic)
In your case, you'd probably be better off doing as my video suggested at the end, namely either doing the "poor man's version" which is to get a cable that is XLR at the mic end, 3.5mm jack at the camera end and which leaves one pin of the XLR unconncted (strictly, connected to ground) so you are running an unbalanced lead, OR (better) buy something like a Beachtek or Juiced Link box to do the connection more correctly.
if i plug my zoom h1 into my dslr will the audio be fine with a 3.5mm male to male
You're not suggesting using the audio from the DSLR when editing, are you? It will be terrible. Why do that when you can record clean audio on the Zoom? Much better. If you do connect them, just use the DSLR audio as a sync track to cut the Zoom audio onto.
+TubeShooterMag im not good with video audio editing im nust trying to get better audio that what the dslr comes with
+TubeShooterMag i watched a good video with this guy clapping 3 times as a reference poont with synchronizing
Yes, that's an easy way to do it. You'll get the hang of it once you've tried a couple of times.
+TubeShooterMag can you suggest good editing programs other than final cut pro i have windows
Would the "IndiPro Audio Box - XLR input to 3.5 Stereo Output" work as well as the juicedlink products? Does it have the same function?
Thanks! =D
Heber Ramos Hi. I've not tried the Indipro products (indeed, until you mentioned them I didn't know of them!). However, given the low price and the total lack of detailed information about the item on the Indipro website and their RUclips video, I suspect - and it is only a suspicion which I am happy to correct if I'm wrong - that these do NOT provide any de-balancing for the audio but are merely hard-wired connections between XLR and 3.5mm jack (effectively no more than a cable of the type I mention at the end of my video). As such, you're losing all the benefits of balanced audio, unlike the products from JuicedLink and Beachtek.
Is it a good idea to connect a xlr mic on the zoom h1, through an adapter or should i just take a mic with a 3.5mm output?
If the Zoom only has 3.5mm inputs, then you're losing the benefits of balancing, in which case the fewer connectors the better (in case of accidental disconnection) so go with the 3.5mm mic - but only if that mic is suitable for what you're recording, of course.
Thanks man really helpful peace and love from Bristol, England
Hi can anyone recommend a good model to buy used - camcorder with full hdmi input I only need hd - it's for stage work so a 24 to 70 with some kind of AF being advantageous
Do you mean HDMI *output*? You'd have to be more precise about what kind of "stage work" you mean and whether you need full manual fuctions or auto capabilities etc in order for anyone to give you a sensible recommendation.
"not that costly"
I understand that this equipment is expensive. But let us know that when you say "not that costly", you still mean over $100.
In the grand scheme of video-making gear, that is "not that costly"
Thanks, bro! It’s really nice works!
Just excellent, thank you. Clearest explanation by far.
Glad it was helpful!
Superb tutorial, you are clearly spoken and this video very helpful... I give it the thumbs up and have subscribed Thanks for sharing
Thank you very much!
Super helpful and informative, thank you!
Excellent; thank you.
Useful info and good explanation -- thank you!
Thanks
what camcorder was that/
Thank you for this very useful explanation!
Glad you liked it
Excellent! Very well explained.
Very useful. Great to see the balancing science illustrated.
Thanks. I was just watching your video about the split audio cable :-)
TubeShooterMag thanks for checking it out. Passive connection to cameras is not the best option as you know. Using a balanced transformer is not much better. My next Zoom H5 tutorial will be a jump up in quality. Having preamps helps a lot.
That's an interesting point; I've never done a direct comparison between a passive and powered balancing unit. From a pure "de-balancing" perspective they ought to have the same effect and therefore quality in terms of interference reduction. But the active unit with nice pre-amps would, as you say, give a better signal into a noisy receptor like a DSLR.
TubeShooterMag Nicely summed up. Yes I'm sure that's the case. Appreciate the input. Sorry- no pun.
:-)
Very informative. The voice over is hilarious.
Thanks. Not entirely sure I meant it to be hilarious...
Excellent video , Thank you
this is so great explanation
Thank you!
TubeShooterMag i watched it twice so i can understand everything and i decided to buy a portable recorder its the all in one solution ...
Yahya Nael Which recorder are you getting?
TubeShooterMag zoom h1 i can buy it for 93$ where i live
Excellent Explanation !!
Thank you!
Disappointing information, but very helpful. And well explained.
I'm curious - disappointing how so?
@@TubeShooterMag : I mean to say that it's disappointing to realize I'll need a box instead of a simple cord. Also, it appears Juicedlinked is out of business. Luckily the very model you picture here is for sale locally, used. Have you found that very one to be among the best and cleanest sounding? Thanks again for the explanation of this phenomenon.
Thank you. I didn't know Juiced Link had folded, that's a shame. I confess I've not actually tried the Beachtek boxes, I just know of their existence. A lot of people use them though so you should have no trouble finding plenty of reviews. Cheers
I appreciated the physics lesson but I was really trying to figure out how to use an XLR with a regular DSLR. sounds like the answer is a TASCAM or other
The solutions are described at the end of the video.
Much cheaper ($40) and lighter soln: iRig PRE. Also provides phantom 48V and gain control. I have one strapped (unobtrusively) to shockmount on my Canon G20. Gives me superior audio (with Audio Technica 875) than XA20 for half the price. Caveat: you have to Jerry rig the dumb-ass iPhone jack with a Y-splitter ($5) to separate the mic from the headphones. Another bonus: iRig PRE has a headphone female socket. More convenient than plugging headphones into camcorder/DSLR.
Good idea, though the fewer connectors I have in a setup, the better. Lots of gaffer tape to make sure it holds together maybe? :-)
Ahhh !" that is very clever.. I like it.. Thank you very much for this education... Subbed !
What about smart phones?
Pretty much the same but the input to a smartphone is likely a TRRS jack if it's an older phone (rather than TRS) or these days it'll be via a USB/Lightning interface so it depends what the input to that is.
Good video! Thanks 🙂
Brilliant - very clear.
+Ben Green Thanks
Did you know your lav mic is upside down? thats why it sounds muffled when you cut back to you in the studio talking!!!
It's deliberately on upside down and this is quite normal with those omni mics; it's to eliminate "pop" sounds from plosive syllables like "p" and "t". It won't muffle the sound by turning it like that.
Finally i found this..thanks!
:-)
Very goood thanks
thank you!!!
:-)
This guy sounds like "Paul Joseph Watson" !
"This guy" being me; who on earth is Paul Joseph Watson?
Wrong accent. PJW has an East London accent.
thanks man!
Wot the hell is with the 1 dislike?!
For amateur filmmakers, it would be much cheaper to buy the ZOOM H4N. $200 and a 2 balanced inputs and a decent preamp.
Peter G Fair point and, at least in the case of DSLRs, that would generally give better sound quality than recording to the camera - but dealing with separate sound tracks not what this video is about.
Having to deal with synchronising sound in the edit is not something everyone wants or has time to do. For those, who want to plug balanced audio straight into their camcorder, there is a need to understand how it works and how to do it properly!
TubeShooterMag Ok - i'm not trying to be an ass, but i'm a bit confused. If you have a camera with an unbalanced input, how would you go about connecting a mic to the camera, without converting the signal to unbalanced along the line? As i see it, the BeachTec has balanced inputs that recieves the signal from the often long leads that comes from the microphone. From there you connect it via an unbalanced output to the unbalanced input of the camera, via a shorter lead, that's less prone to interference?
If i'm mistaken, could you explain how the BeachTek i different from the ZOOM H4. It also has balanced inputs, and both a balanced and an unbalanced output you can relay to whatever you like (it even has phantom power).
Peter G
Orry - i'm mistaken. You need an inline signal attenuation cable to plug the output from the zoom into the camera (i think it's -25db). So i get your point.
Peter G Yes, that's correct. You're not misunderstanding at all. An unbalanced input doesn't "understand" a balanced signal so you have to either feed it one leg of the balanced signal from the originating mic (bad ie potential long cable run) or de-balance the signal as close to the camcorder as possible (ie with a Beachtek) and run a very short unbalanced cable to the camcorder which therefore has less likelihood of picking up interference.
Peter G That's a completely different issue to do with signal levels, nothing to do with balancing. I'm guessing (not having tried it) that the Zoom outputs a line level signal so you'd need to attenuate it down substantially to plug it into a mic input otherwise you'd overload that input and distort the sound.
Really good video but could have done with a bit more on the correct setup and a little less on the science stuff haha. Thanks for the video though!
But the whole point was to explain it
you seem smart but your reading lol just wanted to know what kind of jack will work in my dslr
use a mixer
A mixer may have balanced outputs in which case you run into the same connectivity issue. If it has unbalanced outputs then you can connect easily but be aware you run the risk of the cable from the mixer to the camcorder picking up any electrical glitches. The closer you get your "de balancer" (and hence the shorter the unbalanced cable run) to the camera the better.
+TubeShooterMag cool itd be kinda hard to carry a mixer around then if i wanted audio for dslr id have to save up for a stereo videomic pro iwanted an xlr microphone for vocals and maybe dslr audio too but iguess you cant really do that easily
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