Excited video👍👍👍 please do more like this with 2 layers of burlap, 2 layer of ulcans and 1 layer of burlap with 1 layer of ulcans on top of the burlap. Thanks again for all your work making this videos.
Sir, you are a pioneer in an age of ever changing technology. Your common and practical methods to defeat advanced equipment are extraordinary and I think you should be proud of these videos.
@9B Off Grid if you could double or even triple the copper mesh over your hand, and over a long sleeve shirt and again double it or triple it, man i would appreciate that 🙏
Looks like a good, cheap solution would be wrinkled(for extra, irregular air gaps) copper mesh with the burlap (with possible irregular ghillie suit type camouflaging). Keep the extra ghillie burlap fringes to a minimum to save weight and allow airflow. The copper mesh layer(s) may only be needed in the hood and shoulders areas for a poncho type over-garment. If the ULCANS is available, it replaces the burlap in the above setup. You mentioned "operator heat build-up", and in my opinion (since I have hot summers and mild winters), this is the close #2 consideration after thermal detection. Close #3 consideration would be moisture build-up for the operator. I would consider mylar options impractical due to heat and moisture trapping, as well as the noise.
I think we really need to look at two options in signature reduction. One for winter (or otherwise cold situations), and one for summer (or otherwise hot situations). The heat trapping approach to thermal signature blocking would work fine in cold weather where you WANT to be warm. But it’s unacceptable in hot weather where it could cause the operator to heat stroke. Plus, total obliteration is unnecessary in warmer weather. There’s enough background thermal scatter in warm conditions that you don’t need 100% suppression. Meanwhile… The mesh venting approach works good in summer, because environmental temperatures and ambient heat exist so you don’t need to completely obliterate your signature, just make it unrecognizable and blend into background. But the heat venting approach is undesirable in cold conditions because any tiny amount of heat stands out strongly when everything around you is zero degrees, plus any heat the operator has is lost to outside environment freezing the operator. I think the hardest to deal with hot spots are the top of the head and shoulders. And like you suggested, focusing copper mesh there might be a good place to start
@@ThatThermalGuy Don't forget moisture. In cold conditions, you can't wear plastic materials without good airflow because you will sweat to some degree and as soon as you stop moving, you freeze. This is a major consideration for all cold-weather gear, so it would also be true of thermal camo. That is why I consider a poncho-like outer layer to be the target. Something like how snow-camo "over-whites" are worn. The moisture has to get out, either by wicking out through clothing, or by airflow through the garment.
@@ninja5672 good points. We’ve worked largely with mesh style fabrics lately for thermal concealment, so moisture hasn’t been a problem. But it is not something to lose sight of. I think looking at poncho style thermal obscurants is worth another look. I’ve traditionally stuck to clothing style obscurants and ghillie suits for ease of use.
It still seems heat soaking is the major issue. If you take even just the burlap and offset it from the body surface it does a lot to mask the heat signature. The perforated Mylar makes you functionally invisible, however shiny surfaces usually do a very good job of masking heat as they reflect the background. Certainly these materials would be handy to use for a hide or LP/OP. They just don't seem to be up to snuff enough for on-body use. Also, need to track down that smoke detector.
Yeah, on body use is the hard part. Creating a mobile thermal blind that is effective without heat trapping is difficult. It may be that we simply have to compromise and use one style in cold weather (heat trapping) and another style in hot weather (mesh venting). The one size fits all thing might not be doable. Dunno. Still looking and playing. I’m going to take some of these combinations out to distance next. Distance is your friend with thermals. What may be obvious up close, could blend at 200 yards and get lost in the background.
The copper mesh can get warmed up and doesnt radiate thermal right? Any light metal mesh insulated from the second layer of whatever fabric could do the trick. Except mylar and space blankets as long as they contain a plastic layer
It seems like the perforated mylar gives a more even background radiation reflection than a space blanket because of it's dimpled texture, not as many flashes of reflected cold (atleast tested inside), How much airflow does it give with its tiny perforations? Also I'd be interested to see something reflective with some holes poked in it (1mm or 2mm) for ventilation, I think from a distance it would just "blob" with the rest of the suit when viewed thermally.
I would not call it a breathable material for wearable purposes. It’s probably breathable by definition of air exchanges per hour in a residential application. When worn I would think it could moisture trap to a degree. Not as bad as a space blanket. But it’s there. The upside though, it’s about one tenth, or less, the noise of a space blanket. There’s no way you could actually tactically use a space blanket it’s so loud with every tiny movement. This perforated Mylar material is way quieter, and when pulled tight to limit flapping, almost noiseless when moving. Also, something about the surface perforation, material, or what it’s bonded to, really cuts down on the reflectivity. It’s there, it’s just nowhere near as pronounced as it was. I would definitely consider it a worthwhile material for cold weather, especially at mid range (100 yards) or further distances for detection.
Grownup hide and seek techniques. lol. Thanks for doing this stuff so we don’t have to. For purposes of blocking thermal, transparent materials like clear plastic should work just as well as opaque materials and would allow you to see better. With thermal, you can’t see through glass for example. That’s why they have to use germanium for lenses in thermal optics, and thus why it’s so expensive. Idk. Anyway, thanks and enjoy!
I’ve used that concept of clear plastic before, when I tested the gas mask. I was looking for something that blocked thermal signature while still allowing a clear forward looking window. My initial tests involved a balaclava and snow / ski goggles. When I realized it did great at blocking, but I still had my breath to deal with (it heated the fabric of the balaclava), I started thinking about gas masks. Clear window with great visibility, and it diverted your breath through a series of valves limiting heating visible from the outside. Gas masks wound up being excellent for dealing with the heat signature of the face while still allowing ability to see. This could be applied to pretty much any protective eyewear, from sunglasses to scuba masks. But obviously, sunglasses don’t cover as much skin. Now that I’m talking about it, I remember seeing steel mesh eye goggles being worn by some airsoft players. I asked why the mesh instead plastic tactical goggles like everyone else, and they said it was because they didn’t fog up. I suppose that’s another thing for consideration.
@@ThatThermalGuy Interesting. I really need to go back and catch up on some of your old vids. I came into this in the middle. You’re doing some great experiments. The way things are going we may need to know this stuff some day. Thanks!
@@joeprimal2044 obviously I’m never going to tell someone not to watch my old stuff, there’s a bunch of great content back in the archives as I was learning and experimenting in the early days of the channel. I was very simplistic in content and editing and didn’t make great thumbnails, so most of my earlier vids are looked past despite having great actual information in them. Such is life. I’m working on a revamp of the channel, remake some of the older vid concepts with better tech and editing now.
Hey I just found your channel and watched a couple of your other videos since I’ve been thinking of making something similar. I actually thought of chainmail earlier today but the copper mesh really gave that barrier space you needed! Would you be able to try a thin jacket with the copper mesh sewn on the inside, paired off with a poncho with the Mylar clipped onto the inside and see if that works?
Man i have to say that im preaty impressed with copper mesh, i think if you double fold it, or even triple fold it, and with the isgi net on top, it would be the most practical and efecrive way to actually hine heat, because it would be breathable and fost enough to bent it in to shapes and make a suit out of it, or it least a trow blanket, what do you think? Either way this videos give alot of good data thats for sure, thank you for that!
I absolutely like the copper mesh. It’s stiff enough to create a stand off for lightweight materials to keep them out of body contact, and it seems to dissipate heat well. My guess is used in conjunction with very lightweight materials, like umbrella material, would work very well. Even just single layer it blunts the perceived heat signature significantly. It was a good idea. ;)
@9B Off Grid yes thats my opinion about it from what ive seen on your videos! If you decide to do another video with this fabrics, if i may sugest you to insist a bit more on the copper mesh since it seems that we can still get some more data out of that fabric, if folded twice or even 3 times for prolonged period of times, straight on bare skin and on top of a long sleeve shirt....im saying this because as you mentioned in another comment, ibsee this working on a summer suit ( im planing on building one, after i get find the right materials to worth my investment of time in it...)
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Excited video👍👍👍 please do more like this with 2 layers of burlap, 2 layer of ulcans and 1 layer of burlap with 1 layer of ulcans on top of the burlap. Thanks again for all your work making this videos.
Sir, you are a pioneer in an age of ever changing technology. Your common and practical methods to defeat advanced equipment are extraordinary and I think you should be proud of these videos.
Totaly agree, as i said, there's so much gpod data coming out of this videos
I’m going to take sone of these out to distance next and see how they do. It’s always harder to beat a thermal at close range.
@9B Off Grid if you could double or even triple the copper mesh over your hand, and over a long sleeve shirt and again double it or triple it, man i would appreciate that 🙏
Looks like a good, cheap solution would be wrinkled(for extra, irregular air gaps) copper mesh with the burlap (with possible irregular ghillie suit type camouflaging).
Keep the extra ghillie burlap fringes to a minimum to save weight and allow airflow. The copper mesh layer(s) may only be needed in the hood and shoulders areas for a poncho type over-garment.
If the ULCANS is available, it replaces the burlap in the above setup.
You mentioned "operator heat build-up", and in my opinion (since I have hot summers and mild winters), this is the close #2 consideration after thermal detection.
Close #3 consideration would be moisture build-up for the operator.
I would consider mylar options impractical due to heat and moisture trapping, as well as the noise.
I think we really need to look at two options in signature reduction. One for winter (or otherwise cold situations), and one for summer (or otherwise hot situations).
The heat trapping approach to thermal signature blocking would work fine in cold weather where you WANT to be warm. But it’s unacceptable in hot weather where it could cause the operator to heat stroke. Plus, total obliteration is unnecessary in warmer weather. There’s enough background thermal scatter in warm conditions that you don’t need 100% suppression.
Meanwhile… The mesh venting approach works good in summer, because environmental temperatures and ambient heat exist so you don’t need to completely obliterate your signature, just make it unrecognizable and blend into background. But the heat venting approach is undesirable in cold conditions because any tiny amount of heat stands out strongly when everything around you is zero degrees, plus any heat the operator has is lost to outside environment freezing the operator.
I think the hardest to deal with hot spots are the top of the head and shoulders. And like you suggested, focusing copper mesh there might be a good place to start
@@ThatThermalGuy Don't forget moisture. In cold conditions, you can't wear plastic materials without good airflow because you will sweat to some degree and as soon as you stop moving, you freeze. This is a major consideration for all cold-weather gear, so it would also be true of thermal camo. That is why I consider a poncho-like outer layer to be the target. Something like how snow-camo "over-whites" are worn. The moisture has to get out, either by wicking out through clothing, or by airflow through the garment.
@@ninja5672 good points. We’ve worked largely with mesh style fabrics lately for thermal concealment, so moisture hasn’t been a problem. But it is not something to lose sight of.
I think looking at poncho style thermal obscurants is worth another look. I’ve traditionally stuck to clothing style obscurants and ghillie suits for ease of use.
It still seems heat soaking is the major issue. If you take even just the burlap and offset it from the body surface it does a lot to mask the heat signature. The perforated Mylar makes you functionally invisible, however shiny surfaces usually do a very good job of masking heat as they reflect the background. Certainly these materials would be handy to use for a hide or LP/OP. They just don't seem to be up to snuff enough for on-body use.
Also, need to track down that smoke detector.
At this point, so many people have commented on the smoke detector, it is functionally another member of the channel. Lol.
Yeah, on body use is the hard part. Creating a mobile thermal blind that is effective without heat trapping is difficult. It may be that we simply have to compromise and use one style in cold weather (heat trapping) and another style in hot weather (mesh venting). The one size fits all thing might not be doable. Dunno. Still looking and playing.
I’m going to take some of these combinations out to distance next. Distance is your friend with thermals. What may be obvious up close, could blend at 200 yards and get lost in the background.
@9B Off Grid cant wait fot the video!! Just make sure you are in frame 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@ThatThermalGuy unfortunately smoke detectors scare my dog, I had to wait until the morning to finish watching
The copper mesh can get warmed up and doesnt radiate thermal right? Any light metal mesh insulated from the second layer of whatever fabric could do the trick. Except mylar and space blankets as long as they contain a plastic layer
From the predator camouflage to the burlap Gilly and the hecs suit I'm here for multiple studies at once.
Can you do a video on what you have found what works the best so far . Like a revisit video
This is a great idea. I have, like, 90 videos of tests. A couple good summary videos or recap videos are overdue. Thanks for the idea. :)
😀
It seems like the perforated mylar gives a more even background radiation reflection than a space blanket because of it's dimpled texture, not as many flashes of reflected cold (atleast tested inside), How much airflow does it give with its tiny perforations?
Also I'd be interested to see something reflective with some holes poked in it (1mm or 2mm) for ventilation, I think from a distance it would just "blob" with the rest of the suit when viewed thermally.
I would not call it a breathable material for wearable purposes. It’s probably breathable by definition of air exchanges per hour in a residential application. When worn I would think it could moisture trap to a degree. Not as bad as a space blanket. But it’s there. The upside though, it’s about one tenth, or less, the noise of a space blanket. There’s no way you could actually tactically use a space blanket it’s so loud with every tiny movement. This perforated Mylar material is way quieter, and when pulled tight to limit flapping, almost noiseless when moving. Also, something about the surface perforation, material, or what it’s bonded to, really cuts down on the reflectivity. It’s there, it’s just nowhere near as pronounced as it was.
I would definitely consider it a worthwhile material for cold weather, especially at mid range (100 yards) or further distances for detection.
Grownup hide and seek techniques. lol. Thanks for doing this stuff so we don’t have to.
For purposes of blocking thermal, transparent materials like clear plastic should work just as well as opaque materials and would allow you to see better. With thermal, you can’t see through glass for example. That’s why they have to use germanium for lenses in thermal optics, and thus why it’s so expensive. Idk. Anyway, thanks and enjoy!
I’ve used that concept of clear plastic before, when I tested the gas mask. I was looking for something that blocked thermal signature while still allowing a clear forward looking window. My initial tests involved a balaclava and snow / ski goggles. When I realized it did great at blocking, but I still had my breath to deal with (it heated the fabric of the balaclava), I started thinking about gas masks. Clear window with great visibility, and it diverted your breath through a series of valves limiting heating visible from the outside. Gas masks wound up being excellent for dealing with the heat signature of the face while still allowing ability to see. This could be applied to pretty much any protective eyewear, from sunglasses to scuba masks. But obviously, sunglasses don’t cover as much skin.
Now that I’m talking about it, I remember seeing steel mesh eye goggles being worn by some airsoft players. I asked why the mesh instead plastic tactical goggles like everyone else, and they said it was because they didn’t fog up. I suppose that’s another thing for consideration.
@@ThatThermalGuy Interesting. I really need to go back and catch up on some of your old vids. I came into this in the middle. You’re doing some great experiments. The way things are going we may need to know this stuff some day. Thanks!
@@joeprimal2044 obviously I’m never going to tell someone not to watch my old stuff, there’s a bunch of great content back in the archives as I was learning and experimenting in the early days of the channel. I was very simplistic in content and editing and didn’t make great thumbnails, so most of my earlier vids are looked past despite having great actual information in them. Such is life. I’m working on a revamp of the channel, remake some of the older vid concepts with better tech and editing now.
Hey I just found your channel and watched a couple of your other videos since I’ve been thinking of making something similar. I actually thought of chainmail earlier today but the copper mesh really gave that barrier space you needed! Would you be able to try a thin jacket with the copper mesh sewn on the inside, paired off with a poncho with the Mylar clipped onto the inside and see if that works?
What happened when you leave it on and allow it to conduct the heat from your body?
Man i have to say that im preaty impressed with copper mesh, i think if you double fold it, or even triple fold it, and with the isgi net on top, it would be the most practical and efecrive way to actually hine heat, because it would be breathable and fost enough to bent it in to shapes and make a suit out of it, or it least a trow blanket, what do you think?
Either way this videos give alot of good data thats for sure, thank you for that!
I absolutely like the copper mesh. It’s stiff enough to create a stand off for lightweight materials to keep them out of body contact, and it seems to dissipate heat well. My guess is used in conjunction with very lightweight materials, like umbrella material, would work very well. Even just single layer it blunts the perceived heat signature significantly. It was a good idea. ;)
@9B Off Grid yes thats my opinion about it from what ive seen on your videos! If you decide to do another video with this fabrics, if i may sugest you to insist a bit more on the copper mesh since it seems that we can still get some more data out of that fabric, if folded twice or even 3 times for prolonged period of times, straight on bare skin and on top of a long sleeve shirt....im saying this because as you mentioned in another comment, ibsee this working on a summer suit ( im planing on building one, after i get find the right materials to worth my investment of time in it...)
Consider making thermal accurate human decoys my friend.
Haha!