Devil Jin mains: please balance our character to be strong but not broken and keep him in the archetype Lars mains: GIVE US A +4 ON HIT -12 LOW AND CH LAUNCH NOW!!!
Devil Jin is the ultimate proof a character doesn't need to be strong at all to be an annoying little cockroach to fight. These changes are much better than blackhearts, and I would love this characters gameplay loop to be as sick as his design.
Very reasonable, and I think I'd agree with most of it. Exceptions being: Hellsweep should still launch (it's been his thing), b3 into heat is fun (but I agree it is very dumb)
people fkn hate the entire concept of the an 'unseeable low launcher' regardless of how nerfed it is. You can explain the maths, oki situations, risk/reward, everything basically and still have people somehow religiously shit on dvj because of his hellsweep.
Every point you made was valid and very creative, especially that blood gauge would make him way more interesting. If they fix this character's inconsistencies and make his frames more reasonable in addition to tuning down the scrubby moves that would be really amazing man.
They should give his mourning crow a high power crush option thats like -8/-9 on block. it would counter people jabbing him out it but still have side step counter play and ducking counter play. It would give him a decent mix and reason to use the stance in neutral
he doesn't need a powercrush, he already has mc 2 which counters jab and sidestep. If enemy blocks your mc 1 and keeps blocking you could apply a mix up as it is + on block
@@sliceog710 it only loses when you press the 1 option or if you're too slow for mc 2. most of the time mc2 beats jab in neutral mc. you can also use morning crow on wake up so they can't jab you. That's what i've been doing and if they stay on ground i use the mc 3 option.
That would make him a piece of shit to fight against at all levels. If you want a level of safety while approaching, do wavedash fakeouts into block. Also, that implies the existence of an airborne powercrush, and that would make zero visual sense imo.
If i had my way: df1 -3 on blk, old df12 comes back as df1df2, rise 14 comes back, bigger up lazer slightly bigger hitbox, cd1 does more dmg/give blue spark version cuz its his in game signature move, d3 0 on hit prolly i dont know, slight jab range buff, mainly just wanna buff his fundy tools, id be ok with nerfing some dumb stuff for it
Ngl give mc a powercrush option or make mc2 be safer. And they literally just need to make his hellsweep like Heihachi’s where they’re not backturned. I think it’s stupid they changed that after nerfing everything else
A casual DVJ main’s views (Tekken god rank) Notable mention/idea: What If any move w a laser removes a small percentage of grey health. UF4: Also I think he needs UF4 to be a bit faster if properties the same. In another idea I had maybe instead of a jab floating him he just gets interrupted on the ground. Cause getting floated for this is a bit too common. Poking: With regards to DF1 or DF2 I think he needs a stronger mid poke to check with. His old DF1 TK7 would be nice but realistically I think an adjusted version of Jin’s current TK8 DF1 would be nice, just a poke hit unlike Jin no follow ups. Mourning crow: For mourning crow I think the fly in should have a quicker neutral when you do nothing, so you can call out people using armour to beat you. I feel like this should be just right to not make it option select too much, but more like cancelling into nothing keeps you at like -8 or something just about safe, not plus or neutral, but enough to block armour on block then do whatever follow-up is appropriate. Either this or make the grab out of Mourning Crow not use the entire heat bar, leave just enough heat to do laser cannon into orbital laser follow up. Regarding mids for mix: CD1+2 needs to either be faster or Demon paw needs its pushback to return. Whilst mixing with iWS2 is technical and has a high skill ceiling I feel it’s too unsafe on block at times, ideally WS2 out of wavu should be a mix option & not a mid that keeps you safe. safe mid needs to be demon paw due to pushback. (Come on it’s his signature move make it good) Low pokes, oki: D4 doesn’t need to be as minus as it is. D3 is great leave as is. Oki ground lazer D1+2 needs to come out faster/needs a little tracking, I feel there’s not much benefit to using this instead of a steel pedal, give us a reason to use it other than being just a random option for different oki routes (grey health remover perhaps) And last of all: CD1 hold up needs to do more dmg/remove part of grey health, it’s currently useless. Thank you, keep hellsweeping and screaming like a maniac, DVJ looks sick in this game, pls make him sick too.
DF1,2 is already a natural on CH so yeah i agree making it a natural on normal hit would be dumb. I agree with all your other points too aside from nerfing DB1+2
I agree more with your suggestions than Blackheart’s ones but have we forgotten Standing 4? It gives nothing on CH considering it’s 17 frames fast. Not a bad idea to guarantee a d/b2 but not a b4
I don't think giving Devil Jin more highs to work with makes a lot of sense anyway, people are already ducking a lot against him so you need to keep your high/low usage in limits
i would just make uf1+2 laser more consistent in combos after ws2 (specially because of xiaoyu) and better hitbox on bf2,1,u2 in combos (sometimes it whiffs after electric electric, 3,1 bf2 1) and -3 on block df1. i dont really care about the extension and maybe make df2 transition into morning crow automatically on counterhit. that would be a quality of life i feel like (or make the transition impossible on normal hit)
I don’t think there is any character in this game that is not annoying to fight. Why not Devil Jin? I honestly think they should give him the Kazuya treatment. Its only fair
What we REALLY want with DEVIL JIN: - OLD UF4, remove heat engager property and give him UF4 into B4. Mainman cant complain now because this character literally has nothing - Launching hellsweep on the first hit. Remove the requirementof 1+2 after cd4, make it a KND move instead - D+3 should be +1 like the older games, it should not be -1 on HIT - GIVE DB2 +5 again like older games - BRING BACK DF1 and DF1, 2 mid mid and you can dash forward to make it less minus - GIVE HIM A D+2 LOW since only having two lows is GARBAGE in a game where almost everyone has good lows - give back samsara hold fly stance
I think for the swords it would be enough to just make the, heat only, but make the horizontal one a high, and the vertical one a move he can only use during fly, he is lacking in heat honesly, all his heat moves are just a laser extension that takes a 3rd of a bar, having the swords be heat only moves that he can only use like twice or thrice a round is enough really, especially since making 1 a high and the other only on stance is more than enough of a balance really, although I would at least give the first lots of pushback and decent(nothing crazy) chip and the stance sword have a grey health removal instead since it would likely only be used in very okeish at best combos, or even just making it exclusively guaranteed after an f4 3 into stance(probably his worst ever move) to make it a high risk high reward move, and having both swords deal just 30ish(not considering scaling on the stance one) would be enough to balance them, especially considering how very defensive Dvj is at the moment, it wouldn't even be a boost on his gameplan, but more like kazuya's explosion in heat, just some advantage he could use during heat.
I am a scrub and garbage at the game, but I think DVJ is much easier to play than Kazuya at lower levels because all the cheese you have with d1, u4, b3, db 1+2, f3 into mixup in oki... He has more range (although demon paw is worse) and better heat engagers I feel
I just want Devil Jin to be overall better character! He's fun to play, but very hard to pilot
ws attacks 😭
Devil Jin mains: please balance our character to be strong but not broken and keep him in the archetype
Lars mains: GIVE US A +4 ON HIT -12 LOW AND CH LAUNCH NOW!!!
Clive mains:The only fantasy here is yours!
I really like the changes that you proposed and the install that you mentioned at the end. Can't wait to see what they'll come up with.
Undoing the heavens gate nerf would be nice
Devil Jin is the ultimate proof a character doesn't need to be strong at all to be an annoying little cockroach to fight. These changes are much better than blackhearts, and I would love this characters gameplay loop to be as sick as his design.
Very reasonable, and I think I'd agree with most of it.
Exceptions being: Hellsweep should still launch (it's been his thing), b3 into heat is fun (but I agree it is very dumb)
people fkn hate the entire concept of the an 'unseeable low launcher' regardless of how nerfed it is. You can explain the maths, oki situations, risk/reward, everything basically and still have people somehow religiously shit on dvj because of his hellsweep.
Every point you made was valid and very creative, especially that blood gauge would make him way more interesting. If they fix this character's inconsistencies and make his frames more reasonable in addition to tuning down the scrubby moves that would be really amazing man.
They should give his mourning crow a high power crush option thats like -8/-9 on block. it would counter people jabbing him out it but still have side step counter play and ducking counter play. It would give him a decent mix and reason to use the stance in neutral
he doesn't need a powercrush, he already has mc 2 which counters jab and sidestep. If enemy blocks your mc 1 and keeps blocking you could apply a mix up as it is + on block
@ people can still jab him out of the stance if he does it raw and full screen powercrush would help with that
@@sliceog710 it only loses when you press the 1 option or if you're too slow for mc 2. most of the time mc2 beats jab in neutral mc. you can also use morning crow on wake up so they can't jab you. That's what i've been doing and if they stay on ground i use the mc 3 option.
That would make him a piece of shit to fight against at all levels. If you want a level of safety while approaching, do wavedash fakeouts into block.
Also, that implies the existence of an airborne powercrush, and that would make zero visual sense imo.
Just because a streamer said that he doesn’t need buffs doesn’t necessarily means that it’s right. He needs a lot of buffs and no nerfs.
Is mcr heatsmash grab removed grey health, it would allow for more expression as it combos from/after a mc3 bound
Also cuz it just looks really cool :)
If i had my way: df1 -3 on blk, old df12 comes back as df1df2, rise 14 comes back, bigger up lazer slightly bigger hitbox, cd1 does more dmg/give blue spark version cuz its his in game signature move, d3 0 on hit prolly i dont know, slight jab range buff, mainly just wanna buff his fundy tools, id be ok with nerfing some dumb stuff for it
Ngl give mc a powercrush option or make mc2 be safer. And they literally just need to make his hellsweep like Heihachi’s where they’re not backturned. I think it’s stupid they changed that after nerfing everything else
A casual DVJ main’s views (Tekken god rank)
Notable mention/idea:
What If any move w a laser removes a small percentage of grey health.
UF4:
Also I think he needs UF4 to be a bit faster if properties the same. In another idea I had maybe instead of a jab floating him he just gets interrupted on the ground. Cause getting floated for this is a bit too common.
Poking:
With regards to DF1 or DF2 I think he needs a stronger mid poke to check with. His old DF1 TK7 would be nice but realistically I think an adjusted version of Jin’s current TK8 DF1 would be nice, just a poke hit unlike Jin no follow ups.
Mourning crow:
For mourning crow I think the fly in should have a quicker neutral when you do nothing, so you can call out people using armour to beat you. I feel like this should be just right to not make it option select too much, but more like cancelling into nothing keeps you at like -8 or something just about safe, not plus or neutral, but enough to block armour on block then do whatever follow-up is appropriate. Either this or make the grab out of Mourning Crow not use the entire heat bar, leave just enough heat to do laser cannon into orbital laser follow up.
Regarding mids for mix:
CD1+2 needs to either be faster or Demon paw needs its pushback to return. Whilst mixing with iWS2 is technical and has a high skill ceiling I feel it’s too unsafe on block at times, ideally WS2 out of wavu should be a mix option & not a mid that keeps you safe. safe mid needs to be demon paw due to pushback. (Come on it’s his signature move make it good)
Low pokes, oki:
D4 doesn’t need to be as minus as it is.
D3 is great leave as is.
Oki ground lazer D1+2 needs to come out faster/needs a little tracking, I feel there’s not much benefit to using this instead of a steel pedal, give us a reason to use it other than being just a random option for different oki routes (grey health remover perhaps)
And last of all:
CD1 hold up needs to do more dmg/remove part of grey health, it’s currently useless.
Thank you, keep hellsweeping and screaming like a maniac, DVJ looks sick in this game, pls make him sick too.
b1+2 make it +4 like kaz and hei f4
What about fly stance? I feel like almost every move in stance is worthless besides 1.
DF1,2 is already a natural on CH so yeah i agree making it a natural on normal hit would be dumb. I agree with all your other points too aside from nerfing DB1+2
I agree more with your suggestions than Blackheart’s ones but have we forgotten Standing 4?
It gives nothing on CH considering it’s 17 frames fast. Not a bad idea to guarantee a d/b2 but not a b4
I don't think giving Devil Jin more highs to work with makes a lot of sense anyway, people are already ducking a lot against him so you need to keep your high/low usage in limits
Clive is a more complete Devil Jin than Devil Jin himself. Clive = Devil Jin with a bigger budget.
GOTHBOICLIQUE TIL MY SOUL TAKE
i would just make uf1+2 laser more consistent in combos after ws2 (specially because of xiaoyu) and better hitbox on bf2,1,u2 in combos (sometimes it whiffs after electric electric, 3,1 bf2 1)
and -3 on block df1. i dont really care about the extension
and maybe make df2 transition into morning crow automatically on counterhit. that would be a quality of life i feel like (or make the transition impossible on normal hit)
Nice video momo. All I want is his old charge punch cancel into nothing so you can block again 😂
Momo, please make a guide for installing mods on dvj, or can you provide a link to the mods (wings and impact effect)
I think it’s in his discord
Momo, where can i get that Devil Jin mod?
The devs will do what the devs will do
They don't care about what community thinks
I don’t think there is any character in this game that is not annoying to fight. Why not Devil Jin? I honestly think they should give him the Kazuya treatment. Its only fair
When is season 2? I would add that his 4 needs a CH knockdown. Would also love a laser sword move that is slow and punishable.
And I miss the old b3
Can d4 be not launch punishable please? :(
meter would be cool for DJ
😭
Nah pimp
ws 1+2 too slow make it faster
cd 1+2 you mean?
What we REALLY want with DEVIL JIN:
- OLD UF4, remove heat engager property and give him UF4 into B4. Mainman cant complain now because this character literally has nothing
- Launching hellsweep on the first hit. Remove the requirementof 1+2 after cd4, make it a KND move instead
- D+3 should be +1 like the older games, it should not be -1 on HIT
- GIVE DB2 +5 again like older games
- BRING BACK DF1 and DF1, 2 mid mid and you can dash forward to make it less minus
- GIVE HIM A D+2 LOW since only having two lows is GARBAGE in a game where almost everyone has good lows
- give back samsara hold fly stance
I think for the swords it would be enough to just make the, heat only, but make the horizontal one a high, and the vertical one a move he can only use during fly, he is lacking in heat honesly, all his heat moves are just a laser extension that takes a 3rd of a bar, having the swords be heat only moves that he can only use like twice or thrice a round is enough really, especially since making 1 a high and the other only on stance is more than enough of a balance really, although I would at least give the first lots of pushback and decent(nothing crazy) chip and the stance sword have a grey health removal instead since it would likely only be used in very okeish at best combos, or even just making it exclusively guaranteed after an f4 3 into stance(probably his worst ever move) to make it a high risk high reward move, and having both swords deal just 30ish(not considering scaling on the stance one) would be enough to balance them, especially considering how very defensive Dvj is at the moment, it wouldn't even be a boost on his gameplan, but more like kazuya's explosion in heat, just some advantage he could use during heat.
Namco give Momo a position into the balance team, this would make the game way better
Hello momo :) 👋
Hello!
i was there
🐟
🙏
Honestly he doesn’t need buffs, just revert every single nerf they gave him since launch T8
I am a scrub and garbage at the game, but I think DVJ is much easier to play than Kazuya at lower levels because all the cheese you have with d1, u4, b3, db 1+2, f3 into mixup in oki... He has more range (although demon paw is worse) and better heat engagers I feel
df2 is so bad. buff his df2
Yeah it's very short for a mid
Increase his jab range and his mids and we all good.