Project M Retrospective: Most Ambitious Smash Bros Mod of all Time
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- Опубликовано: 19 апр 2020
- Patreon: / honestcontent
Rise, Fall and Rebirth of the one of the largest Super Smash Bros Brawl mod.
Download Project M+ here!
projectplusgame.com/
Hey guys, thanks for watching the video. I know it has been awhile since I have posted anything, but don't worry these type of videos are more of the direction I plan to go down in the future. Hope you guys enjoy!
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Игры
calling this the most ambitious Smash mod is an understatement,i daresay its the most ambitious mod made for a console exclusive game ever.
Agreed
Well said.
yeah the amount of content in this mod is unreal
That lack of communication about the fate of the game wasn't just external, it was internal, too. Project M's development team didn't collectively decide to spontaneously disband, that decision was made from the higher ups that had all gotten job offers from Wavedash. Most of the team was blindsided, and frustrated that they didn't have a say in the decision to shut down. That's why there were angry anonymous developer Q&As, leaked builds, and unfinished character assets popping up on 4chan's /v/ board within 48 hours of the game's cancellation.
I love you
Can't wait to tell my grandkids that Knuckles revived a game.
It's amazing how a fan made mod for a game from 2008 did better justice for knuckles than ultimate did.
@@AutZentus What justice? What happened to Knuckles wasn't unjust in the first place. Do you seriously think he deserves to be a playable fighter in official Smash? Especially when Eggman and Tails aren't even playable yet?
@@k-leb4671 "What happened to Knuckles wasn't unjust in the first place."
Um hello did you not get a closer look at knuckles' assist in smash ultimate? It's just a shameless NPC sonic clone with the same animations as sonic (mainly the running, falling, and air dodge animations) and the homing attack which is an attack that knuckles never has ever naturally done. When in any of the past sonic games has knuckles ever been a straight up copy of sonic all the way down the same techniques and movement. That is quite a disrespect/injustice to his character.
"Do you seriously think he deserves to be a playable fighter in official Smash? Especially when Eggman and Tails aren't even playable yet?"
Consider he has a full moveset that makes him fully realized as a playable fighter, yeah duh. Also what do you mean by eggman and tails aren't playable YET? You do know the DLC for ultimate is done right and we aren't getting a new smash anytime in the near future. You're talking like you're so sure that they will be next when you don't even know for sure. Hell in all honesty we're never getting a second sonic fighter in the official smash games at all.
@@AutZentusKnuckles has used the homing attack in Sonic Heroes when Sonic was leading and Sonic Rivals. It’s a bit of a deep cut but Assist Trophy Knuckles is still quite accurate to the source material.
ZSS was a separate character in Brawl, she just didn't have a slot on the CSS. Selecting her was like starting with Sheik in melee
She was considered a part of Samus, not her own character. Many people played brawl without even knowing you could play as her lol
@@ZachHonest Can only speak from following competitive play, but wasn't Zss the reason why Salem became relevant as a top player in brawl in the first place?
@@ZachHonest She has a full moveset though. It's not like Zelda and Sheik where they share a special move that allows them to switch between each other. ZSS' moveset is completely separate, and just so happens to change you to normal Samus after using her final smash.
I met a guy at a local tourney once who was a dev. He gave me the last (beta) build and told me I could share it. I asked him about what happened and he told me there was no official cease & desist, but a rep from Nintendo told them to stop or they would very soon receive a legal cease and desist and if it was ignored legal action would be taken. If anyone was an actual dev (I'm just a dev's mate) please correct me if I'm wrong. But it's a very reliable source and the guy, I found out later from the community is widely known to have been a key part of the team.
It’s it playable ?
"It really reflected how Sakurai and people at Nintendo saw competitive gaming at the time." If only it was just "at the time"
#SaveSmash
I JUST CAME HERE TO SAY THANK YOU!
This game is absolutely amazing. Even from a casual standpoint I love it. I’m considering getting brawl and a GameCube controller just for this game! I love how knuckles is in how the legacy will continue! Also the history is rly insane and rumors are cool.
Tysm for making content on PM still. After what Nintendo did to it, it's great to see people like you standing up and still making solid videos about this game
Dude your channel is awesome, I really hope you start getting more subs!! Keep it up
Always nice to hear someone acknowledge how much work it was to add Mewtwo. 😏 Nice video. Oh, and I was working on Skull Kid next, but I got a new job that took up a lot more of my time and never would've finished him. Another, newer dev did a handful of proof-of-concept animations for him, though. So there's some truth to the Skull Kid rumors.
check out a newer video on the channel. i talk all about that stuff actually lol
@@ZachHonest Haha the new video was really fun for taking a walk down memory lane! My channel actually has a vid of Dixie in motion, when we were still working on the model and getting her ponytail to move with the physics engine, so that we could really easily just reuse any Diddy animations we wanted.
The PM died for this was in ddlc which was made by dan salvato's team
This is what brawl should have been
Project + is a great game. I love the changes that bowser got, he's super fun now
Why is there sudden surge of PM content?
X X P+ knuckles update and the quarantine has many melee personalities playing new games which includes streaming P+
i think they stoped just to do their own things, like one of the devs created doki doki literature club
Yeah, it was Dan Salvato.
Wasn't he the creator of Project M?
@@32xios69 He created the 20XX tournament edition Melee mod, he did help with the PM development though.
Paying my respects to the planned characters who didn’t make it, Lyn of Fire Emblem, Isaac of Golden Sun and Sami of Advance Wars. Knuckles at least made it into Project+.
If they were still around I could imagine cloud shulk dark pit and Simon/Richter being in the game
at 24:39 tbh Sakurai took notes, releasing Byleth, which differs the most out of any FE character so far (features a bow, an axe and a whip too)
Literally 4 characters of the 8 in the cast are clones of Marth. The rest all use swords when the series is known for using many different weapons, its like if the Pokémon cast were all fire types. It would be really bland. That's my opinion at least tho.
She still just plays like a regular sword character though. It doesn't matter if it looks like an axe sometimes, her weapon functions as a sword
@@ZachHonest We have Lucina, who are the other three? Roy and Chrom don't count by the way, neither does Marth himself.
@@ZachHonest Hey, don't blame Smash when it's Fire Emblem itself that puts the focus on swords. So few main characters don't use swords.
I'd argue that Robin probably differs the most
"Project M is here to stay"
Statements made depressing through time
At least Project + exists
Glad to see more coverage of PM and P+. However, I feel like this video was very disorganized, and left me growing uninterested rather quickly. You often repeated information (you said "project M devs left to work for Wavedash" at least 3 times within 2 minutes' time) and use excessive and repeating transitional phrases (you said "as and aside" within an aside). In addition, you would mix up words and phrases from time to time (Saying "Project M is a mod for Project M" when talking about P+, saying people were giving Wavedash "slack" for some of their actions, rather than "flack") I don't know if this is just due to some of your takes being long (I'd assume you didn't just record a single take for 45 minutes) but it was quite noticeable to me.
You also seemed to try to explain information you yourself don't understand or have all the information for at times. For example, when talking about the leaked builds, you spoke as if there was one build featuring "the forbidden four", when there were two separate builds (you actually show a build in your video that didn't have Sami in it, despite mentioning Sami being in the same build). When talking about the leaked characters, you also talked about the playstyles of Isaac and Sami - how they were similar to Toon Link/Ike and Snake respectively. What you failed to mention was that those two characters were still in very early states, with incomplete movesets. Sami wasn't supposed to essentially be an echo fighter of Snake - it was just as far as her build got. In fact, I'm fairly certain I heard from a dev (sadly cannot confirm) that it was still uncertain if Sami would be on the roster at all.
You also briefly mentioned the speculation of Skull Kid as a fifth fighter. I can confirm to you thanks to a now-deleted Twitter thread started by art director Nanobuds that Skull Kid, Dark Samus, Dixie Kong, and Paper Mario were all characters that were worked on, with varying levels of progress (all in very early development). More recent art "leaks" from one of the devs, jiang, we learned of several new alternate costumes and early animation sketches, as well as a possible character (that was mostly just being pushed by the artist), the Pokemon Psyduck. No clue if it was actually being considered by the team, but it certainly was a possibility.
To interject in my criticism for a moment, I do want to present a light argument to your third point on the disbandment of the PMDT. You claim that most of the devs were losing interest in the game's development and wished to pursue more fulfilling or financially beneficial projects. There certainly were devs who held such a view, but truly, most of the devs were not informed of the end of the project, only learning when that final message dropped. Even now, I occasionally will see former PMDT members mention how they wish they still were working on the game. Some of them still are working on P+, like KJP. Really, many of them still wish it wasn't over.
Back to my major criticisms, I feel it may be a bit disrespectful - maybe even rude - to list many of the groundbreaking works done within Project M to be the accomplishments of "Project M". You praised "Project M" for the unique codes they implemented, the expanded roster, and proper alternate costumes - but most of that wasn't done by "Project M". Most of the dev team were playtesters or focused on character balance. There considerably fewer members of the art team, and even less coders. Within the art team, there were fewer 3D artists than 2D artists, and even less knew how to do 3D animations. Really, we should be giving our praise to the coders, like wiiztec, magus, and Dantarion, for their work on the discovery and creation of revolutionary codes. We should be praising the animators, such as Virum (formerly SilentD00m) that made Mewtwo, Roy, and Knuckles come to life. You mentioned that you didn't want to name people because the mention of their connection could negatively impact them. Not only do I think that's very unlikely, but many of the former devs are proud of their work on Project M, and continue to mention their time with the game themselves. Can't bring Virum down with PM when he's already talking about it!
To wrap things up, I want to talk about your presentation. Its really uninteresting. I can understand if you are not familiar with video editing as much as others. However, you're choice of footage is pretty poor. It can be confusing to some to watch footage of Project+ or Melee when specifically talking about Project M. You also reused some footage repeatedly (the PM Demo 2 trailer was shown at least twice, at most 5 times) when you had 10 trailers and countless matches you could've shown. As I touched on earlier, your delivery also felt pretty weak, and it sometimes felt you were just rambling. Do you use a script? If not, writing down a script can definitely help make your information more concise. The more concise a script is, the shorter a video will be. The shorter a video is, (generally) the more people will watch it.
Hope my criticism and information helps. Cheers!
Once I realised the video was kinda one take, I put it on in the background whilst I cooked instead of sitting down and giving it my full attention
I actually didn't know a lot of this stuff. Finding "underground" PM info is quiet hard because there can be some random person or a past developer saying one thing and then another developer says another thing that completely contradicts it. But it makes sense that they had no idea PM was coming to a close, and yeah I'm aware of people like Virum very talented modder indeed. I had no idea though that characters like dixie kong and dark samus were planned at points, I wish I was able to see that tweet, sounds interesting. Its just hard to find information, especially with the leaked builds on 4chan considering for a while none of the dev's were willing to really talk about its development until time went on. Mentioning the build on reddit would get you banned I remember, even mentioning characters like Knuckles or Lyn would get taken down, it was a weird time for while. Thanks for the comment, I wish there was a place where there is a definitive fact checked list of PM's development. I tried my best for what I knew, but obviously I don't know everything haha. Thanks for the comment though, I respect it.
"Greetings, viewers! I am ThePsyShyster: an average college student with the time to make RUclips videos. Here, expect biweekly Let's Play videos, generally of Nintendo games, and a scripted video released once a month (if all goes well)" Guess it didn't go well huh? btw thanks for the shoutout
@@wiiztec Well, I certainly never expected a response from you, of all people, "mocking"(?) me for not starting my channel. I actually have a bunch of stuff in the works, but I just haven't been motivated to do editing. Hope you're doing well.
I was just checking your channel to see if you're someone I knew from one of the smash discords or something
I remember the day pm got canceled. I was actually getting my learners permit that day and I was sitting in the dmv when I saw the announcement lmao
2008: Year I Was Born Before Brawl
OMG U ARE BACK!!!
Hmm yes, “in legal terms illegal.” In all serious very good video though loved watching it hope you hit 10k subs.
Actually the earliest project m development began in 2009
Lol update that Wikipedia article.
in the psychological horror game made by team salvato "doki doki literature club" one of the startup screens says "PM died for this"
What does the “PM died for this” startup screen mean? I’ve never played DDLC before so I don’t know what that means.
@@marioluigi3122 it means project m died for this
it was made by the people that made project m
@@deadcatrevieweroh
Common parallel that’s missed is one of the Devs was Warchamp7, member of Team AVO known for their hacked Minecraft client which they used to troll and grief servers extensively back in the day. Bonus: Team AVO played notch in Quake to settle their legal disputes about the hacked client and (iirc) breaking the end user agreement 😂 they lost but Notch being the nice guy he is let them off the hook and even gave them capes if memory serves me right. The 2010s was a Wild West for modding
portal 2 has been on my mind, imagine chell in smash 🤔
At least the idea of project m didn’t die with the discontinuation
Are you going to do a video on Brawl Minus?
Oof, skipped over Samus's super-hype post-tournament trailer with morph ball crawling... I got into PM thru P+ and P-. Plus was definitely around for awhile first, I mean they removed tripping and raised the gravity.
Another great project was Mushroom Kingdom Fusion which had so many games involved in this Mario universe but stopped development. I feel they stopped because they added way more than they could handle but I could be wrong but man, I miss that game.
Still play project + to this day. I main ivysaur.
This is the only smash game I play now. I prefer it over ultimate tbh.
Check out HDR, it makes the gameplay of ultimate much closer to PM/P+, and many of the characters were changed to be like their P+ version.
Have you been playing the beta of vortex rising? Its pretty unique
I know i'm very late, but at least there's Project M EX Remix, which i would want to get a Dolphin Emulator and Wiimmifi just for that alone
RIP Project m,RIP Legacy xp
Maybe I’m weird but I never enjoyed playing sub space emissary at all. Felt like I was just trying to get through it as fast as possible to unlock characters
It was pretty grindy so I don’t blame you. Especially since Wolf, Toon Link, and Jigglypuff were added late in development and weren’t even a part of SSE
Yeah, time has really blinded a lot of people. The Subspace Emissary wasn't particularly good. A lot of people around Brawl's release complained about it. We only miss it and rag on the more recent games now because we no longer have it.
Sure the cutscenes were super cool for the crossover aspect, and it gave lone people a lot of stuff to do, but another Adventure Mode would need to be way more fine-tuned and concise...and also not have a story that verges dangerously towards the weird dark nonsense of Kingdom Hearts.
What version of mugen was lyn based off of?
ruclips.net/video/7lhtDh4eFu4/видео.html
You can see from the video they pulled the same sound assets and animations from the mugen version to its PM iteration.
11:00 Bruh Lucario was based of Mewtwo's moveset
Every clone character is based off an existing character in the code. So yes Mewtwo was based off Lucario. Roy was based off Marth, Knuckles was based off Sonic. So yeah that statement is actually factual.
@@ZachHonest Ohh... In the code. Sry for me being stupid
@@ZachHonest You truly did not understand what he said. He said the moveset of lucario.
I never got Ultimate, or a Switch. But that’s okay. THIS is my Ultimate. It did the only things I ever really wanted from Smash Bros. Bringing back Mewtwo, and adding another Sonic character. I’m satisfied for life 😍.
el traductor de google esta echo una caca apenas entendia pero almenos supe algunas cosas bueno espero que alguien de habla ispana hable de esto tambien
Not so sure that "even casuals didn't like tripping", but it could have easily been a toggle like countless Smash elements before it to at least make Brawl have another minor selling point.
You also mentioned L Cancelling as one of the elements that Brawl and later games didn't do. That's true but it is one of the last elements I'd name as something I miss and that seems to be echoed by people chiming in that Auto L Cancel should be an option for tournaments and the mechanic often being called bad.
On Icons, you may be pretty right about the games poor identity but I think it is worth reading this article on its relationship with Project M and more: www.dualshockers.com/icons-combat-arena-post-mortem-definitive-edition/
It makes a conclusive statement that it was an "unconfirmed legal threat" from Ninty.
On Vortex Rising,I look forward to hearing your public opinion on the project when it is shown upfront fairly soon but the word I've heard in the stream and given that Icons is now not F2P. Things are looking pretty alright for them honestly.
As far as criticism for your work, I liked this and definitely like the idea of more retrospectives. You have some room for improvement but your knowledge and love for the topic shines through, just keep that flame burning.
Thanks man, love the comment. More content coming for sure.
I agree about L cancelling but considering PM was a project that was basically creating Melee in Project M it makes sense why it's there and yes not all Casuals weren't begging for tripping to be gone but that was because they were unaware.
It's a shame. Vanilla brawl could've been better with slow paced gameplay forcing a more strategic playstyle thang what it is now.
does it work on android?
I love project + but i think knuckles feels horrible and is clunky
You said in terms of lawyers illegal. You mean downloading and playing PM is illegal? Or only the development of the mod was illegal? Im worrying if i play Project M im breaking the law...
If you own a copy of Super Smash Bros Brawl, there is nothing illegal about you playing PM!! :)
@@MattHaley94 thanks!
Publishing a piece of media with Nintendo's characters is technically a violation of their intellectual property (that's debatable but I'm not gonna delve into the fair use rabbit hole). Having the mod installed and playing it is perfectly legal, but making and publishing it is not. Most of the time, Nintendo really doesn't care about individual modders because their work isn't well known and so they can fly under the radar, but PM got BIG, and started being ran at major events, so there's no way this mod wasn't noticed by Nintendo. Eventually, the dev team decided the legal risk wasn't worth continuing development because of how large the mod had become.
@@MrGameAndToy basically, not illegal to play, but the distribution is?
@@StarForceBelmont321 You don't need to worry about legality at all, what you're doing won't cause you to go to jail or get a fine or anything
I am so glad I am not a smash fan cause I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I wined over a game while not showering for 8 months.
I think you are wrong. Surely Nintendo screwed this too. Like with everything. Nintendo suck.
and behold, they were right. Nintendo and Twitch screwed PM over.
Yeaaaaaaah not gonna lie, the fact it took you nearly 8 minutes to start talking about Project M put me off of the video to be honest.
You say "with games like" an awful lot.