Helpful Info. F Concert and C Concert are the Sharpest notes on the most Band instruments. That's a great place to start if you are working on your tendencies.
Do you have any videos for advanced players on how to methodically identify the tendencies of your particular horn and how to adjust each slide given the trade offs that we have to make for different partials?
All good information, except that it starts to skew into a common fallacy common to many wind instrument players, brass especially. I used to think, as AKCEuph started to suggest, that the reason a brass instrument played sharp or flat as the temperature changed was due to the instrument changing size as the metal expanded with heat or contracted with cold. But then I started to realize that, WAIT!....the horns tend to play sharp when warm and flat when cold (temperature high = pitch high, temperature low = pitch low....which is contrary to the metal expanding or contracting with ambient temperature. And I did some rough calculations relating the actual amount the metal would expand or contract and it was not nearly enough to account the the observed pitch change. So what was actually going on? Turns out that the math formula for musical pitch of a vibrating air column inside any wind instrument is pretty simple. The factors include length of the tubing, whether the tube is open or closed at the end (some organ pipes are actually closed at the end opposite the end that is blown), the air pressure (usually based on altitude above sea level, which affects the density of the air inside the tubing), and air temperature (which also affects density of the air). When you plug in some real word numbers into this formula, it readily becomes clear that the way that the sound wave energy propagates within the vibrating air column is greatly influenced and dependent on both altitude and air temperature, and yes, when that vibrating air column is warm, the pitch will be high, and vice versa. This is one reason why it is important to warm up an instrument before performing and also before testing with a tuner and/or making tuning adjustments. You need to get the air inside the instrument to a stable temperature, and then tune it that way. This involves ambient temperature of the air outside the instrument, temperature of air being blown into the instrument, and internal temperature trending higher or lower because of heat gain through the body of a brass instrument (the horn has hot sunlight hitting it and the heat passing through into the air column) or heat loss (the brass instrument has been cold soaked and even if brought into a warmer place, the brass will be stealing heat from the air column). You need to play the horn, or at least blow lots of 'playing temperature air' (e.g. your warm breath) into the instrument until ALL of the air inside is at about that same temperature. I see players all the time coming into a rehearsal about 5 minutes before the start time, and by the time they put their horn together and sit down, they have not had time to get the air column temperature inside their horn set up and stable before tuning, and then they wonder why their horn is out of tune and keeps drifting. If they had sat down and blown warn air into the horn for a few minutes, they would have had fewer intonation issues. The other thing that is pointed out in this video is that in order to get our instrument properly adjusted, you should tune it with good air flow, at a good volume, and with your 'oral cavity' (i.e. the air space inside your head behind your teeth) configured as it would be when you are actually playing. That oral cavity space does have an effect on how the instrument plays, and what its intonation is like. Many players who suffer from intonation issues would find after proper analysis that is the way they have their oral cavity sit up (such as tongue position, jaw position, etc), and how they are supporting the air pressure and flow coming out of their lungs into the instrument, that are a big part of their problem.
I am trying to think of a way to play the concert f above the staff in tune without lipping it down. With a trombone, you can just bring out the slide in that partial, but with a student model euphonium, it is a bit more difficult. Is there some way to flatten the pitch without having to rely on lipping it down?
I think it helps to have a friend watch the tuner so it is blind. I find that if I watch it myself and I am slightly off I start to questioning “well is that really my normal embouchure”? If someone else watches it you play a note and they just say sharp or flat etc. Also, I think your comparison about going form a cool air conditioned practice room to a hot outdoor field was backwards. If the horn heats up bit gets bigger and should go flat, not sharp
Michael Prozonic totally get you with having a friend around to help with feeling out intonation. However, there is also more at play then the metal when it comes to why you are sharp as it gets hotter. I just tried to simplify it to keep the video length short. The horn guys did a fantastic article on why brass is sharp in hot and Flat in cold if you want to check it out... www.hornguys.com/blogs/horn-guys-blog/15338265-why-does-pitch-change-with-temperature
Helpful Info. F Concert and C Concert are the Sharpest notes on the most Band instruments. That's a great place to start if you are working on your tendencies.
I find this useful as a Euphonium student
Hi! I just started as the only Euphonium player in my music class and honestly im not too sure what im doing, do you have any tips?
Do you have any videos for advanced players on how to methodically identify the tendencies of your particular horn and how to adjust each slide given the trade offs that we have to make for different partials?
Thnak you band director 😃
All good information, except that it starts to skew into a common fallacy common to many wind instrument players, brass especially. I used to think, as AKCEuph started to suggest, that the reason a brass instrument played sharp or flat as the temperature changed was due to the instrument changing size as the metal expanded with heat or contracted with cold. But then I started to realize that, WAIT!....the horns tend to play sharp when warm and flat when cold (temperature high = pitch high, temperature low = pitch low....which is contrary to the metal expanding or contracting with ambient temperature. And I did some rough calculations relating the actual amount the metal would expand or contract and it was not nearly enough to account the the observed pitch change. So what was actually going on?
Turns out that the math formula for musical pitch of a vibrating air column inside any wind instrument is pretty simple. The factors include length of the tubing, whether the tube is open or closed at the end (some organ pipes are actually closed at the end opposite the end that is blown), the air pressure (usually based on altitude above sea level, which affects the density of the air inside the tubing), and air temperature (which also affects density of the air). When you plug in some real word numbers into this formula, it readily becomes clear that the way that the sound wave energy propagates within the vibrating air column is greatly influenced and dependent on both altitude and air temperature, and yes, when that vibrating air column is warm, the pitch will be high, and vice versa.
This is one reason why it is important to warm up an instrument before performing and also before testing with a tuner and/or making tuning adjustments. You need to get the air inside the instrument to a stable temperature, and then tune it that way. This involves ambient temperature of the air outside the instrument, temperature of air being blown into the instrument, and internal temperature trending higher or lower because of heat gain through the body of a brass instrument (the horn has hot sunlight hitting it and the heat passing through into the air column) or heat loss (the brass instrument has been cold soaked and even if brought into a warmer place, the brass will be stealing heat from the air column). You need to play the horn, or at least blow lots of 'playing temperature air' (e.g. your warm breath) into the instrument until ALL of the air inside is at about that same temperature. I see players all the time coming into a rehearsal about 5 minutes before the start time, and by the time they put their horn together and sit down, they have not had time to get the air column temperature inside their horn set up and stable before tuning, and then they wonder why their horn is out of tune and keeps drifting. If they had sat down and blown warn air into the horn for a few minutes, they would have had fewer intonation issues.
The other thing that is pointed out in this video is that in order to get our instrument properly adjusted, you should tune it with good air flow, at a good volume, and with your 'oral cavity' (i.e. the air space inside your head behind your teeth) configured as it would be when you are actually playing. That oral cavity space does have an effect on how the instrument plays, and what its intonation is like. Many players who suffer from intonation issues would find after proper analysis that is the way they have their oral cavity sit up (such as tongue position, jaw position, etc), and how they are supporting the air pressure and flow coming out of their lungs into the instrument, that are a big part of their problem.
How often do you practice with a tuner?
AKCEuph not often enough
Everyday
Sam Brown awesome 💪
Q _ Q hahaha
Mostly slow pieces where the notes are more exposed........ Fast pieces the notes go buy quicker so there's no need 🎺🎺
What if I’m flat playing an E flat, but my first valve slide is pushed in all the way?
Carter Kenney than it may have something to do with your main tuning slide or your air and how well you are supporting the note.
I am trying to think of a way to play the concert f above the staff in tune without lipping it down. With a trombone, you can just bring out the slide in that partial, but with a student model euphonium, it is a bit more difficult. Is there some way to flatten the pitch without having to rely on lipping it down?
You can pull the main slide out for just that note. You can also try alternate fingerings like 1-3 or 4 and see if that helps
Hi ive just got a prestige euphonium yesterday and i dont know how to pull the main tuning slide
Euphonium Time you turn the little rod that’s attached to the trigger. You should see a small notch to turn it.
So many things affect instrument tuning not excluding heating due to performance making pitch shaaaaarp
i didt know you must tune them
I think it helps to have a friend watch the tuner so it is blind. I find that if I watch it myself and I am slightly off I start to questioning “well is that really my normal embouchure”? If someone else watches it you play a note and they just say sharp or flat etc.
Also, I think your comparison about going form a cool air conditioned practice room to a hot outdoor field was backwards. If the horn heats up bit gets bigger and should go flat, not sharp
Michael Prozonic totally get you with having a friend around to help with feeling out intonation.
However, there is also more at play then the metal when it comes to why you are sharp as it gets hotter. I just tried to simplify it to keep the video length short. The horn guys did a fantastic article on why brass is sharp in hot and Flat in cold if you want to check it out...
www.hornguys.com/blogs/horn-guys-blog/15338265-why-does-pitch-change-with-temperature
SOFI Sharp Out Flat In