It really seems that the korean pros talk a lot more openly and deeply about skill, practice, and talent compared to anything I've heard in the foreign scene. I love how it's a little introspection into their pro lives. Thanks again for all you do, JinJin!
in end of day, they were all talented to even make it there in first place but needed something extra to make the breakthrough. They all had best resources offered possible
@@jinjinBW afaik there was (perhaps is?) way too much focus on grinding it out - not sure if's a cultural thing or something else. Burnout / overtraining / plateauing due to overfocusing on a single aspect - all of those and many more are a thing, in any pursuit - be it mental or physical.
@@SpiritLwerewolf my first thought as well. When Ruby mentions that Oz used to do nothing but grind all day, my first thought was not to be impressed, it was to think "oh wow, their coaches don't know how to get the best performance out of people. They are probably burned out as hell.". Hard work IS important, but so is balance and keeping your mental strong. Plus other sorts of practice like thinking about the game, talking about the game with others, studying your replays are valuable sources of improvement and if you're focusing too much on grinding games you're not improving these skills.
@@LuckyGnom There's a big difference in improving as player mechanically and then making breakthrough to make difference vs pros with similar mechanical skillset tho. It's not like these progamers in practice teams were some online players. They all passed highest of level tests and were scouted individually or passed courage exams.
It's funny how their meaning of playing hard is basically playing for 10 hours straight (20 games * ~30 mins). Back in a day we all thought this is how you improve, but apparently if you fully focused during the practice 10 games is more than enough. Now, you can argue that Sea wasn't Jaedong/Flash level of player, but I think all he really needed to do is just up his working hours closer to 8 hours (~15-16 games). However, who are we to judge - everybody is different.
In other hand BW is really mechanical game so if you don't practice enough, let's say as zerg - the race which requires the most APM your muta micro won't be effective enough and you might fall apart.
everyone grinded that much to keep in shape at top level though. Toppest level progamers like Bisu,flash,fantasy, jaedong, ect everyone all grinded 20-30+ games/day on top of mental/thinking training and coaching. By time people enter into progaming house, they are competing against people as talented or more talented then them all while putting in hardcore grinding at same time. Players like Air just couldn't make that extra push past to set him apart from other top level players that got into progaming. You have to remember all these guys all passed hardcore weeding out tests like courage tournament to even get there in first place to even attempt being progamer.
3:02 Sea: "Stop playnig mindlessly and play with thoughts behind it" I guess there's your answer why the guy grinded but didn't improve, bad grinding won't help you improve
Dude, we are talking about the very top of the curve and the better you are at something the harder is to improve. It is literally an exponential growth relationship meaning that the difficulty of improvement increases exponentially the better you become. And these people were already mechanicly perfect wich is already almost impossible to atain for most. Now imagine trying to go from Ruby's level to Sea's level and then from sea's level to JD's level, it may be sometthing like having one entire life spam to practice soccer and then going and facing 2009's Messi in a series of 1v1 to find out you are losing 10-0. I say all this because when you consider it, leveling as just 'bad grinding' can be considered a serius understatement.
When Nalra was doing 'Old boy' reality show, he wanted to face Flash one more time before going for OSL qualifiers. KT coach strongly denied him and told him that his players would often go into slumps when training against Flash for too many games. This goes to show how no metter how hard you train, eventually, you will face a wall you cannot cross, Flash is that wall.
Jeeze man... Some of the words at the start made me feel a bit emotional. It's true though. I've put a great deal of time into things I've loved only to plateau in a very short amount of time. Hell, I've been trying to play Slay the Spire for months and I can barely beat it on the base difficulty; it makes me feel like a moron.
using outside resources is important too. reading guides and meta strategies and copying other people until you can innovate on your own is a way to improve.
As talented as Sea is/was, he never really won any major tournaments (OSL, MSL, or ASL). Imagine what could've been if he had actually practised as much as Air.
I am not sure if this has something to do with the Korean mentality. Basically, in order to succeed one must suffer. Cannot go out, eat bad food, call yourself a "useless piece of trash" if they cannot deliver. I would argue that these players would have achieved more with better coaching and regimes.
It really seems that the korean pros talk a lot more openly and deeply about skill, practice, and talent compared to anything I've heard in the foreign scene.
I love how it's a little introspection into their pro lives. Thanks again for all you do, JinJin!
I feel bad for Air :(
they're mixing up ineffective practice with lack of talent
in end of day, they were all talented to even make it there in first place but needed something extra to make the breakthrough.
They all had best resources offered possible
@@jinjinBW afaik there was (perhaps is?) way too much focus on grinding it out - not sure if's a cultural thing or something else. Burnout / overtraining / plateauing due to overfocusing on a single aspect - all of those and many more are a thing, in any pursuit - be it mental or physical.
@@SpiritLwerewolf my first thought as well. When Ruby mentions that Oz used to do nothing but grind all day, my first thought was not to be impressed, it was to think "oh wow, their coaches don't know how to get the best performance out of people. They are probably burned out as hell.". Hard work IS important, but so is balance and keeping your mental strong.
Plus other sorts of practice like thinking about the game, talking about the game with others, studying your replays are valuable sources of improvement and if you're focusing too much on grinding games you're not improving these skills.
@@canadianbakn Well, back then nobody in esports knew wtf they are doing.
@@LuckyGnom There's a big difference in improving as player mechanically and then making breakthrough to make difference vs pros with similar mechanical skillset tho.
It's not like these progamers in practice teams were some online players. They all passed highest of level tests and were scouted individually or passed courage exams.
How Sea created his own build
1. simulate in his mind while in bathroom
2. practice a few matches
done
at least ruby didn't embarass himself with the first and most important, yet super simple wall-in
Nah man he finally figured out how to wall on that map. I got CHILLS watching it!
It's funny how their meaning of playing hard is basically playing for 10 hours straight (20 games * ~30 mins). Back in a day we all thought this is how you improve, but apparently if you fully focused during the practice 10 games is more than enough. Now, you can argue that Sea wasn't Jaedong/Flash level of player, but I think all he really needed to do is just up his working hours closer to 8 hours (~15-16 games). However, who are we to judge - everybody is different.
In other hand BW is really mechanical game so if you don't practice enough, let's say as zerg - the race which requires the most APM your muta micro won't be effective enough and you might fall apart.
everyone grinded that much to keep in shape at top level though. Toppest level progamers like Bisu,flash,fantasy, jaedong, ect everyone all grinded 20-30+ games/day on top of mental/thinking training and coaching.
By time people enter into progaming house, they are competing against people as talented or more talented then them all while putting in hardcore grinding at same time. Players like Air just couldn't make that extra push past to set him apart from other top level players that got into progaming. You have to remember all these guys all passed hardcore weeding out tests like courage tournament to even get there in first place to even attempt being progamer.
3:02 Sea: "Stop playnig mindlessly and play with thoughts behind it" I guess there's your answer why the guy grinded but didn't improve, bad grinding won't help you improve
*Wild Artosis* appears!
Sea wouldn't know since he was slacking off evidently, his lack of actual achievement given his natural talent level is telling.
Dude, we are talking about the very top of the curve and the better you are at something the harder is to improve. It is literally an exponential growth relationship meaning that the difficulty of improvement increases exponentially the better you become. And these people were already mechanicly perfect wich is already almost impossible to atain for most.
Now imagine trying to go from Ruby's level to Sea's level and then from sea's level to JD's level, it may be sometthing like having one entire life spam to practice soccer and then going and facing 2009's Messi in a series of 1v1 to find out you are losing 10-0.
I say all this because when you consider it, leveling as just 'bad grinding' can be considered a serius understatement.
When Nalra was doing 'Old boy' reality show, he wanted to face Flash one more time before going for OSL qualifiers. KT coach strongly denied him and told him that his players would often go into slumps when training against Flash for too many games.
This goes to show how no metter how hard you train, eventually, you will face a wall you cannot cross, Flash is that wall.
That guy is like Artosis
great translation on this, the pros really have good insight on the finer details OUTSIDE of the game too.
thanks for doing these translations
Thanks for the translation!
Is that Ruby?
Thanks for the video as always :)
Jeeze man... Some of the words at the start made me feel a bit emotional.
It's true though. I've put a great deal of time into things I've loved only to plateau in a very short amount of time.
Hell, I've been trying to play Slay the Spire for months and I can barely beat it on the base difficulty; it makes me feel like a moron.
Everyone has talents for different things. Keep exploring life, you will run into something that you both enjoy and are good at.
using outside resources is important too. reading guides and meta strategies and copying other people until you can innovate on your own is a way to improve.
CJ definitely had the most effort
I think it might be the way he practice or his mindset that is hindering him than talent
As talented as Sea is/was, he never really won any major tournaments (OSL, MSL, or ASL). Imagine what could've been if he had actually practised as much as Air.
who is this?
ruby
I am not sure if this has something to do with the Korean mentality. Basically, in order to succeed one must suffer. Cannot go out, eat bad food, call yourself a "useless piece of trash" if they cannot deliver. I would argue that these players would have achieved more with better coaching and regimes.
Am I the only one seeing the girl in the left, she's cute.
Stop being horny