You know I searched up hydrogen powered car because DDI introduced it in his last vlog then clicked this dudes vlog then checking through his comments then saw DDI commented then wow whatta coincidence hahaha
also needs to essentially drive 2x my daily commute to fuel the car instead of just plugging a cable in it in the evening. and thinks rapid charging takes several hours.
6:20 When you look at the chemistry of electrolysis, it is impossible to produce hydrogen without using electricity. You can’t make this process “more efficient” as you state
@@cjeam9199 "Nuclear power is already one of the most efficient types of energy available today. An average capacity factor of 91 percent beats other energy forms by a substantial margin. Natural gas produces an average of 50 percent while coal produces energy at almost 59 percent."
@@MT-rc3gn capacity factor is not the same as efficiency. The efficiency of the power generation does nothing to improve the efficiency of the electrolysis process either, it would only improve the efficiency of the overall use case, but it will never beat electric vehicle’s efficiency across the overall use case.
It's probably a better comparison to make with how they perform against gasoline because, unlike EV, the hydrogen engine isn't as big a departure from what most people are already used to, at least not once there's wide adoption. Fill the tank, drive until it's low, fill it up again. No worrying about charge, which is better reserved for smartphones.
I hope so, but right now, BEV's are ahead of hydrogen in the consumer marketplace. The lack of refueling infrastructure is the biggest impediment. Also, both BEV's and ICE vehicle technology is a moving target, since both technologies are constantly improving, making it that much harder for any competitors to gain an advantage. ICE's have a one-hundred year head start, and when this battle was fought at the turn of the 20th Century, GM's Charles "Boss" Kettering's invention of the self starter gave ICE's an insurmountable advantage over the competitors, steam and BEV's. Then, as now, recharge time and range are still the two biggest obstacles to widespread adoption of BEV's. Newer technology promises ever faster recharge times, but the low energy density of even the best batteries still requires the average BEV to carry around about 1500 pounds (680.4 kg) of battery weight to get range comparable to 120 pounds (54.4 kg) of gasoline. Note: Gasoline weighs about 6.0 lbs./gal., so a twenty (20) gallon gas tank holds about 120 pounds of gasoline.
You really do show your ignorance. There is no internal combustion engine in a hydrogen car. You could use an internal combustion engine but you would reduce the range by around 70%. Do some research.
I do like the concept. We do have a hydrogen manufacturer here in Las Vegas, but they don't sell to the public. They generate their H from solar power. It still has a carbon footprint but much less of a polluter. It has great advantages and some disadvantages.....I say it will be pretty normal to see H pumps in 20 years or so.
then your wrong. Most cheapest and profitable method is through Oil, and we all know how fuel execs will fight tooth and nail to keep their cheap method. Unless we get cheaper electricity for electrolysis, theres no point.
@@honkhonk8009 Gee Honk, I'm wrong. I just said we will likely see H stations in the next 20 years. They are already in many European countries and here in the Trucking Industry.....it will likely transform into the regular public platform. H can be made from solar quite cheaply and easily, just need to invest in the infrastructure. It will come, we will see it. Oh, I am pro Oil. My son makes his living in the Bakken in ND.
@@honkhonk8009 You're asking the wrong person. I'm anti all that BS and ANTI climate change is caused by humans. Just the facts from our dim witted liberal friends. We will likely see them, however. I'm in my 70's and so don't have to put up with the BS you all will....hahaha
Only application I see for hydrogen fuel cells are large freight trucks due to the weight of the battery the truck has to carry along with its cargo but that also create other challenges of installing hydrogen stations all over the country and making a system strong enough to carry the cargo.
I think this is awesome because even though I do like to use gas powered vehicles I know that oil is not reproducible and we never know how many years we have left of crude oil. I think this is a great technology.
It goes without saying that the high cost of gasoline is the reason why the there’s so much more hydrogen here in California than just about anywhere else. $40 to fill a tank might seem like a lot if you’re in a place that already has relatively low gas prices (like Texas for example) - but in California, this cost to fuel is lower than what the cost to fuel just about any gasoline powered vehicle is. Going from the Nissan Altima that I had previously to the Mirai I have right now (albeit bought used - it’s a 2017 model, and ironically enough my Mirai had depreciated down to only $13.5K by the time it had reached the used car dealership I got it from) has actually managed to cut my refueling costs in half. Which of course is saying something given that the nearest hydrogen station to my house is only 2 miles away. As stated in a design blueprint that I mailed off to Air Products, the largest hydrogen producer on this side of the border, by far the biggest potential source of renewable hydrogen on this planet is a source as common as rainwater itself: thunderstorms. And no, I’m not talking about just channeling the lightning itself after it has already been discharged - all you’d need to do is build some kind of 40,000-foot tall tower with two sets of feeder rods that extend laterally, one at the top and the other at about 5,000 feet. Any thunderstorm that passes over such a tower would then have an artificial circuit to pass the electricity that would otherwise get discharged as lightning through - and at that point all you’d need to do is reroute that resulting charge separation through a bunch of electrolytic rainwater storage tanks on the ground. Put such a system in a place like Florida that gets a lot of thunderstorms, and, problem solved. That said, construction of such a colossal structure that would dwarf the Burj Khalifa by a factor of 20 would be a massive undertaking to say the least.
That's really cool, I've got a Chevy hybrid, I like the mileage 32mpg on average. The hydrogen concept is very nice, and the fact it's carbon footprint is so clean. They definitely need more fueling areas , or add more fuel tanks. For a greater range.
Did you see the cost of hydrogen? Around $13 per kg, which lasts for real world 50-60 miles depending on driving speed. The carbon footprint is also terrible, because almost all of the current hydrogen is produced out of fossil methane, which releases carbon products into the athmosphere.
@@cjeam9199 I know but toyota has made a corolla sport with a hydrogen combustion engine but it's not well suited for mass production. But still I really hope that in future if gas cars get banned I still will be able to experience the sound and thrill of a combustion engine while not producing any pollution.
@@nickurey people love to anti-hype Tesla and try to put down their ability to charge when in reality it is actually better than people that don't know about tesla's would guess.
@@GBR9794 its all about infrastructure. whatever country your in will have update their infrastructure to follow modern tech. same way we saw in the industrial revolution. Maybe Hydrogen would be a good option in your case. you are like the .001% where that would make more sense over an EV
It has more range and operates in the cold without as many nasty recycling issues. The Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles have been the end goal for a long time and the days of the current BEV’s are probably numbered.
With 40'000 EV's being sold in the UK in just one Month very recently, and just 30 hydrogen powered cars being sold in the UK in the *whole* of last year, I think you may be mistaken..... There are just 12 or so hydrogen filling points in the whole of the UK, and not all of those allow public access. The UK has 30'000 public EV charging connections, with a further 30'000 being installed in 2022 alone. Nobody here is interested in hydrogen cars.
Toyota have since made a Hydrogen Combustion engine car that eliminates the need for any battery thus making it a non EV, and it only takes 90 seconds to fill up. When the board at Toyota found out that the CEO wasn't really interested in making EVs and had chosen the hydrogen Avenue they replaced him with a younger CEO who had been running their luxury brand Lexus but since he was appointed it would appear that he is in Agreement with the former CEO that Hydrogen rather than Electric vehicles are the future. Believe it or not but Hydrogen vehicles are coming to stay
Very well done I wish you well and I wish Toyota would build a hydrogen charging station far as her those electric cars that don't want to have a hydrogen cell we could at least use the hydrogen to maintain the power station we're here in the United States were Texas lost power for days and every one of the electric car was pretty much stuck in the driveway I wish you well thank you for posting the video
Unfortunately, most hydrogen does not come from hydrolysis. It comes from methane recombination, which involves a good deal of greenhouse gas emissions. Ideally, 100% would come from hydrolysis, but we aren't there yet.
there is another technology out there that strips the hydrogen from ammonia by passing it through a fuel cell which the hydrogen can also fuel an internal combustion engine
I think until we can mass produce electricity cleanly, Hydrogen is just recreating the infrastructure problems of gasoline...once that's solved it'll pick up. If it doesn't battery tech is going to be the winner.
actually it doesn't just recreate the infrastructure problem, it amplifies it. an average gas station can hold up enough petrol for 800 to 1200 cars, while a H2 of compared size can support up to 40 to 60 cars. on the other hand is the enormous cost of building such infrastructure.
real advantage over EV vehicles is battery life. most EVs get 200,000 to 300,000 in there life and recycling is difficult but a well designed hydrogen cell should last like the car you have now.
Hydrogen is the future. How do I know? Because Toyota is a very intelligent company that delivers consistent quality, durability and dependability. In other words, they know what they're doing and how to get it done right. I trust Toyota. Customer loyalty is paramount. Toyota for life.
ok.....so.....could they not just figure out how to turn the converted exhaust h20 back into fuel? meaning that you could essentially just keep going for longer? Or put water into it?
Charge your car every time you go to bed you have a full charge. Electricity is much cheaper than hydrogen and you can fast charge from 5 to 85% if 40 minutes which you can do at grocery stores.
I think we have to be honest and realize electric on its own will not be enough. Allow both but encourage those who don't really need it to go electric. So public transport and taxies and long distance travel could be hydrogen. And people who do short journeys to the shops etc go electric.
How much coal or natural gas is going to be burned to make the electricity to feel these eco-friendly cars? Every conversion of energy from one state to another is never 100%
I can imagine hydrogen conversion systems powered by Solar and wind, so they fill up gradually over time. So that filling tanks with hydrogen at stations are frequently being refilled and compressed. Too bad it can't work quite the same large scale to power the grid that way.
Better then electric electric in 0 degree westher and 2 ft of snow good luck is all i can say heating it alone takes mega power. Plus who the hell has a hr to sit to charge daily.
I have been driving battery electric vehicles for 14 years now. My current European BEV uses electricity much more efficiently than any hydrogen car. Your comments regarding charging times are incorrect. I rarely need to spend any more than 30 minutes at a public charger, frequently less as I'm only topping up to complete my journey to get home. When I arrive home all I need to do is plug my car in. Mysteriously the next morning my car is full with nighttime cheapest electricity. My time plugging in - 30 seconds!
You may not do it but they certainly do to the young. for them it is probably quite obvious that a car should offer Spotify 😃 or some other streaming service. and other smart features and they may also want comfortable suspension comfort
@@ragingstormgaming7829 hmm it’s weird honestly. We do have the actual mechanism of clips but they don’t work here. Like they remove the part that locks the clip itself so the clip just moves back and forth
@@Chen-sm1og JCB in the UK, are producing and testing hydrogen powered ice vehicles, and ice add on’s to existing engines already, with zero emissions. So, it isn’t a scam. Check your facts first, before you comment.
Ha....great idea but to be honest a busy UK motorway did a bit of weaving in and out in sport mode. It only kicks out 136HP but the torque is awesome....!!
I truly don't understand your comment. "Hoon"? Save on foods parking lot? I'm in Canada and I don't get it. Keep in mind that km 60 years old! Go easy on me!lol!
Makes sense. Every toyota dealer that sells Mirai will have a community of loyal Mirai costumers for refueling as well. As more people buy these cars, businesses on hydrogen fueling station will start to appear near the area and will be like domino effect.
That's what manufacturers should do to help sales. Any location willing/able to put one in would probably help sales huge. If you can fill up where you bought it, you keep going there.
@@yjfnfgy and you don't refuel at idk... The middle of nowhere Cmon, then why the canister exist? Yes not everyone has it at home but literally everyone at home has electricity. Should be a no brainer. Besides not just meant charging at home. If you're at somewhere where there's no hydrogen charging station you need a back up. Redundancy is important
@@Patrik2166 I'll just stick with gas/diesel. Dont have to worry about finding a place to refill/recharge. 😂 Plus, I'm a mechanic. So working on my car is easy and far less hazardous.
the hydrogen is created on site through water and electrolysis. the cost is likely the electricity that goes into producing the gas. the price likely depends on electricity price of the area and since there are no other competitors they can charge what they want. the cost of producing the hydrogen should be only a couple of dollars
If it makes water, shouldn't there be a drinking water compartment? Imagine a car that quenches your thirst and makes ice cubes. That would be a big selling point in Arizona desert type places.
Great video. Obviously the increased availability of fuelling stations in the coming years will make this technology cheaper and more convenient. The price of hydrogen through renewables will fall significantly as scale and productiin efficiency improves. There is space on the road for both BEV and FCEV. There are commentators who are hostile to one or other technology. The consumer should not be distracted by such vitriolic narratives. There is room in the market. Just as there was for diesel and petrol. Decarbonisation is the priority and green hydrogen forms part of that future.
@@cranfillnathan7411 We know what steam is, but you don't seem to know that Canada produces its hydrogen from the Alberta oil patch, not electrolysis, as was incorrectly suggested in the video. Hydrogen is a dirty fuel here, because it is the byproduct of natural gas + water + fossil fuel heat = more carbon dioxide + carbon monoxide + hydrogen. Until that changes, you would produce fewer green house gasses operating a gas powered car, than a hydrogen one.
Even from electrolysis it would be bad. There is no surplus of green electricity so most of the time it is coal or gas fired power stations that would need to run to provide extra power to the grid. Does not matter for the climate whether on paper you buy green electricity.
@@DanielKivariTeacher Globally, making hydrogen creates about 800 million tons of CO2, plus fossil fuels are used for heat. Yeah, unfortunately, it really is not "green" like the promoters make out. Hydrogen filling stations cost $2-3 million, and service 10-20 cars a day . Could the money building out the infrastructure be better spent on solar and batteries ?
Minor correction: the fuel cell combines the hydrogen with the oxygen to create electricity (basically, electrolysis in reverse). Thus, what comes out of the fuel cell is water, electricity, and heat.
Yes, but that is not a vehicle issue but an infrastucture one. If you had no petrol stations outside Vancouver would you be able to drive an internal combustion vehicle outside the city? No, you would not. So why criticise a vehicle for the currentl lack of infrastructure? The infrastructure is never going to be built if the vehicles do not work after all..... It's not like the current petroleum infrastructure sprang up overnight fully developed you know....
Meanwhile, Mike could have not gone out of his way to waste 5 minutes standing next to a hydrogen pump, and instead, he could have just plugged his Battery Electric Vehicle into an outlet at home before going to sleep for the night, and awoken to a full "tank" (charge).
The advantage petrol had (and has) though was that you could more or less put some in a bucket and take more with you. You can’t do that with hydrogen.
As a Nissan Leaf driver I like the convenience of charging at home. I live in Medford Oregon where there are still no hydrogen fueling stations. Like my cellphone I only need a 110 volt outlet to charge my Nissan Leaf.
here's my take. for normal vehicles i Believe the market will be dominated by pure EV's but for planes and things like that then i see it going towards hydrogen because of the weight of the batteries.
Those new short range electric passenger aircrafts they're building are pretty sweet though. Make no noise, can land pretty much anywhere. I see a great future for them.
Totally and it produces more power to weight so our semis will be hydrogen in Canada testing right now actually can't get enough batteries to haul a load of logs off a mountain or lumber to the world
Nope it won't. Its a vastly more expensive way to do what an EV does in a car that's far simpler to build. Range is already 350 mi or so (400-500 in a few) in upper level EVs with battery prices due to plummet 50% in the next 3 years as superior/cheaper batteries scale up. (I don't count the paper battries like solid state as yet). LFP energy densities are rising, Cost to manufacture with sold electrolytes are much less. Charge rates rapidly increasing with tabless batteries and other technical approaches. The sun is setting fast on the PHEV with the massive cost of building out infrastructure, it would need many years to ramp at great taxpayer cost. It has Zero chance to become anything significant before its completely eclipsed as battery prices fall. The fact that people are still talking about this is a testament to how badly our educational system has fallen. Its like hearing people jabbering away about how 7 is really a smaller number than 3. The basic math isn't there. Its really quite annoying. H2 is a political football. Not a remotely viable solution.
I would say from a technical standpoint, hydrogen is good for heavy duty. Think for example of construction machines, they run all day and dont have time for charging, so they need to fill up fast. A car usually runs only a couple of hours, so there is lots of time for charging, and the greater efficiency comes more into focus
And people who complained about EV long charging time? C’mon you have to stop for breaks and 15-30 mins of changing goes a long way. There’s no need to charge it to 100 percents all the time.
This was a surprise detour into a new topic. I've heard of these cars but knew nothing about how they worked. Now I do, so thanks! I think it will turn on the availability of hydrogen pumps and on whether all-electric batteries will ever get mor range. It's good to see any gas alternatives taking shape.
After purchasing an EV, I can't see people rushing to get in on hydrogen. I can charge at home for dirt cheap, have 500 km of range whenever I wake up, no need for daily stops. I recently moved from Victoria to St.Johns, and drove my car across the entirety of Canada. Total cost at superchargers? 240 dollars. Average charge time is about 20-25 minutes, but after 4 hours on the road, it's nice to take a break and stretch your legs. Tesla chargers are usually close to some kind of food store, or grocery store, so you can stop for a snack.
Gas here in Vancouver is roughly $6 per gallon ($1.50 per litre). We have been living with these kinds of gas prices for a long time, so welcome to the club! hahaha.
@@raynemichelle2996 I'm not sure where you're taking your figures from, but the comment from a Vancouverite just previous to yours puts gas at ( $1.50 X 3.78 = $5.67 Can. per U.S. Gallon ) or ( $1.50 X 4.53 = $6.80 Can, per Imperial Gallon )
Good video. I'm an automotive engineer and enjoy this technology. It's worth noting studies have show since there are several methods of isolating the hydrogen. Some methods actually produce less emissions to isolate the hydrogen to move the vehicle than some of the energy production plants used to move standard electric vehicles
I can't wait for this technology to advance and more stations to be available all over. I live in the mid-west of USA. Let's move forward and away from fossil fuels.
Hydrogen is half as efficient to make as bev’s and that is not including how they hold it. And hydrogen is usually made with byproducts of fossil fuels as it is cheaper, why do you think the fossil fuel industry is supporting hydrogen so much?
“You get hydrogen from electrolysis…” Well, no … not usually. By far the least expensive way to “get hydrogen” isn’t from 💦 by electrolysis, it’s by steam reforming natural gas, followed by use of water-gas-shift chemistry, both of which generate CO2 - making it not green at all (or, even worse, from steam reforming of coal, which makes even more CO2.
Yes but mining 80lbs of lithium for a electric car produces more co2 and kills more child slaves than steam reforming hydrogen. Until lithium is mined off world AND its mined by robots its about as ethical as BLOOD DIAMONDS and polluting as natural gas.
Lithium is 99% recyclable, eventually the majority of new batteries will be sourced from old batteries. Now how many times can you recycle that coal or any other combustible?
@@mostneuter I know where it comes from. And I know that by buying a phone or any technology made today I have blood on my hands. But that’s why I have a 8 year old phone. My 100grams of lithium 8 years ago is a little better than 589,000grams of lithium (a very conservative estimate). A Tesla battery weighs 3500lbs and most of that is lithium. So make that 1300kg of lithium. So yeah my 100grams every 8 years vs some peoples new electric car every 3-4 years. And once those battery’s go bad they get trashed.
@@superspooky4580 Why do you keep talking about lithium? Do you really think it's the only metal on earth? Also, if you really think Tesla throw away their batteries, you really need to start doing some research on the subject instead of talking shit :) The only reason why most companies don't recycle their batteries is only because it's cheaper to get new ones, recycling them is already done by some companies at a smaller scale and as it was said previously, lithium is 100% recyclable edit: Tesla also will have in the future an entire area of their Gigafactory dedicated for recycling batteries if i remember well
agree, for now. but you know the nature of technology improves and the biggest drawback of electric vehicles is charge time mostly. but that can be improved with battery technology. however in 10-20-30 years who knows. Hydrogen falls off in efficiency and indirectness compared to pure ev's. In order to produce hydrogen they still require electricity, why go the long route when you can directly store that through a battery?
@@Tincanturtle Hello, I was reading your comments and I agree in the majority but had you thought about the cost of making the batteries needed for the electric cars, and for the hydrogen cars too. Booth use batteries to sore the energy but in comparison the hydrogen cars use a small battery because they produce and store only one part of it.
@@itsjortra291 thats an issue of production which as time goes on will be mostly resolved in my opinion. Tesla for instance claimed that in the future when most vehicles are out in the road are EV in 10-20-30 years they will be able to reuse batteries as recycleables. I believe the issues we see now are due to the fact that technology is still new and so is the means for production as well as the infrastructure. But time will resolve all things in my opinion
@@Tincanturtle Save we can't recycle Lithium at all, EVs are actually more harmful for the environment and require more energy input than traditional gas powered vehicles. Hydrogen is by far better, even with it's inefficiencies.
Nice video Mike. However, everyone forgets to factor-in the energy and pollution used and created during the mining and refining of ingredients to produce the batteries for BEVs.The process is destructive to the environment and the energy used to make the batteries must be considered against the energy used for producing hydrogen. Also, the recycling of batteries requires more energy to be used. This needs to be considered when comparing these two kinds of electric vehicle
The massive elephant in the room which no one talks about is the vast amount of manufactured goods people consume from clothes to settees also energy production itself they contribute far more to climate change the vehicles, the amount all vehicles contribute currently to climate change being less than 10% while ev's will help it's a tiny percentage of what needs to be done
@@HamguyBacon Mm I wouldn't say it's a lie it's a naturally occurring phenomenon the climate is in constant change albeit not caused by vehicles this ev stuff is pure hype
@@jacobdaniels3246 I agree however if a person has an ice vehicle and only drives when warrented for such as long journeys holidays etc instead of commutes the carbon footprint is way less than the manufacture of a new ev for instance I cover less than 3k a year folk need to stop using their cars for school runs local runs etc then these ev's are not required the hype concerning vehicles is way over represented by government and the media they would be better served on discussion of the 90% caused by none vehicular carbon emissions electricity production, housing, clothes manufacturer, farming etc the list goes on however as always the motorists are an easy hit
What I would envision in the future would be having home fuel cell units creating electricity for the home (not connected to grid), fuel cell units would also power your Electric vehicle (I think electricity storage will change rapidly in next 10 years) and many more EV power stations will come on line as charge times decrease to 5 - 10 minutes. Hydrogen will be delivered to home or delivered to a home tank.
I think fuel cells might be useful for semi-trucks and heavy equipment (especially if it’s generated from renewable energy), but pure electrics are better for most everyday drivers. It’s so much more convenient to recharge at home and never have to go to the gas station!
It shall be the other way around. Battery pack is heavy. No so much probelm for commercial viechle, but big probelm for passenger viechle. Hydrogen fuel cell is a goo range extender.
@@林振华-t4v Actually a battery pack is a big negative for commercial vehicles. They are too heavy for commercial vehicles (especially trucks) that have a maximum weight they can carry on roads/highways. Cars are so light that adding the extra weight won't inconvenience the average Joe because the efficiency of an EV is better for non-commercial drivers (they don't have to care about weight restrictions). Commercial vehicles would benefit from hydrogen being way lighter and saving time on fueling up. Thats why Caddyzig is right.
@@林振华-t4v Hydrogen doesn't make sense for consumer vehicles (possibly not even most commercial ones either) and pretty much everyone that's not Toyota has learned this.
@@dylanlong6269 Yea, Semi's with weight restrictions would go Hydro. Aviation that need to have as little weight as possible to fly would go Hydro as well.
@DownieLive - For efficency conclusion , everyone must keep in mind that the powerplant is already integrated into the Hydrogen car , while normal electric cars (incl. Tesla) have it externalized in the power grid (incl. tons of wires , trtansmission transformers + substations , rectifiers & Power Plants)
Except for the process of creating, (by electrolysis or methane re-forming), compressing, building storage and transportation infrastructure , transportation to refill sites, storage and dispensing of the pressurized hydrogen. Battery electric cars (BEV and PHEV) use existing infrastructure (just like fueled cars have with refineries and gas stations) for home charging and in practice use the energy more efficiently.
Just pointing out a few things: Hydrogen is light, but the fuel tank aren't, and the fuel cell stack isn't light either. This Mirai is actually heavier than a Tesla Model 3, despite being of similar dimensions. As it stands right now, all the hydrogen you can buy is derived from fossil fuels. In Vancouver most electricity on the grid is hydroelectric (very low emission power source), but the pump hydrogen you buy was made by cracking natural gas and releasing CO2. Eventually the "idea" with hydrogen is to make "green" hydrogen with electrolysis, but right now that's cost-prohibitive.
There is a solution to all of that, well most of it. The fuel tank will always be heavy, it's compressed gas and that means solid steel tanks. But instead of deriving from fossil fuels, you build electrolysis factories and run them off of nuclear power plants which is the cleanest form of energy. After that, it's quite simple.
@@ghostrikeit It is a simple process, but it's not very energy efficient, and that's kind of the problem. It's always the case that the nuclear energy used to make the hydrogen to fuel up FCEVs, would be able to charge 2-3 times as many battery electric cars, for the same amount of energy used in both cases. The underlying problem with producing hydrogen is that you need to change the state of the energy many times, each time you do it, you lose some of that energy content as heat at each step in the conversion process - batteries are much more energy efficient at doing this. A simple way to put this is: if we went either all Battery or all Hydrogen Fuell Cell tomorrow, going with hydrogen would require about 3 times as many new power plants to be constructed, vs the situation for battery vehicles. It's certainly possible, it just wouldn't be the best use of resources.
currently writing a dissertation on the potential of FCEVs so a bit of a coincedence that this video got recommended. The ineffeciences he mentioned here are an issue in cars but the power density means they scale better than batteries in larger vehicles. Look out for more hydrogen buses etc in future!
I woudn't bet the farm on that. A number of H2 bus operators aren't thrilled now and are likely to be far less thrilled as other battery cost continue to drop at 8% per year or more as they have for some time now. Also "power density" = charge/discharge rate "energy density" = capacity. You don't want to misuse the terms in your paper. The use case for PHEVs is shrinking every year. Busses are already gone. For long haul trucks and ships, I would use Nat Gas as that's already been done and is Far easier and cheaper to get. If Tesla builds out mega chargers, even long haul trucks will fall to EV.
2-3 hours to charge... He is so missed informed that's why he went with Hydrogen-electric instead of battery-electric. Our Tesla Model 3 charges to 80% in under 25 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger. And if we don't leave town, we would never have to wait for charging because we charge while we sleep and wakes up with a full battery.
@@melvinmcfly4498 the man says he wanted a car with more range and chose hydrogen, but there isn't enough hydrogen refilling stations for him to go out of town, which defeats his reasoning of picking hydrogen over electric. This has nothing to do with gas cars. He shoulda bought a Prius if he wanted more range and faster refilling.
@@melvinmcfly4498 And it cost more than gas, and is still a really dirty fuel and needs more power to be made too. Not to mention you can't have the stations inside city limits here at least, as we have seen in Norway they are prone to exploding.
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Hey, well done and can you do a follow up on it? What has improved with the charging station, there is a new Mirai version out and as well in Europe, several Countries are preparing its economy to use more hydrogen. Especially The Netherlands, Germany, Spain, ....
Love the “baum-chika-waw-waw” soundtrack! 🤣They installed a pump for these at the 76 in our old neighborhood (Sherman Oaks, CA) and we started to see several of them around town. good looking cars!
Hho conversion is way more inefficient than a battery, no brainer is to ignore the fact that this was developed for military aplication not economical.
@@santiagoperez2094 it's more inefficient because it hasn't been developed more. It is the most abundant element in the universe, the car doesn't rely on a heavy, slowly decaying battery which has a far lower range. Its far quicker to fuel up and you can even have an internal combustion engine using hydrogen as demonstrated by toyota. So it's inefficiency is a minor problem with an excellent fuel
@@ballisticmissl7919 its inefficient because the chemical reaction is inneficient, hho its the n1 reaction in mechanical speed, upt to mach 9, and its also one of the hottest. Yes hidrogen is the most common element on the universe, you know the second? Oxygen. Most of the hydrogen on earth its already stable in an oxyde or hydro carbon, wich means electrolisis or pirolisis, both not green neither smart. Iron niquel batteries are virtually inmortal, its not used because batteries life span its the least of our concearns. Unless you have a fusion reactor under your hood, or you need a heavy duty long range vehicle, hydrogen its simply not the awnser.
I remember a few years back I heard about using Hydrogen in a car when there was one pump for it in all of the UK. Glad to see the tech has really developed since then. Keep up the great work man!
I think for now battery powered cars like the Tesla will win out over hydrogen fuel cell. But in the long run, I am quite certain that the fuel cell will win out.
Hey! I actually work for the company that builds, owns and operates the hydrogen refuelling stations in BC, including the one you went to in North Vancouver. It's awesome that you're giving positive exposure to this technology. It's really important for people see hydrogen fuel cell and battery electric as equally positive alternatives to conventional combustion engines rather than competing technologies. Great video.
Lol, takes $5-7 to charge my LR model 3, overnight at home, for about the same range, no need to go around looking for fueling stations. When doing a trip, takes about 20minutes to go 0-80%, about 400km, at Tesla superchargers. Barely enough time to go use the washroom and grab a snack. Oh and they got superchargers all over US, and coast to coast Canada. But thanks for the review, never seen a real world drive of the Mirai so far.
@@KDlGG at the moment Tesla got the higher speed superchargers along the main highways enough to drive from coast to coast, new ones are being built every week and in car navigation shows the status of the charger and availability. The in city superchargers are more for the convenience of those who can't charge at home and aren't always the fastest ones. To charge you only plug in, no app or any other authentication necessary, payment goes from the credit card that's already on file when you buy the car. Overall it's a pretty well thought off and stress free experience. It only took me 2 charges to get from Langley, BC to Canmore, AB. One in Kamloops, 2nd in Revelstoke. $8-10 each. And barely enough time each charge to go use the washroom and grab a snack for the road.
@@ConstantinSirbu in Washington, where I’m at, you’re fucked unless you live in a sliver of central Washington and by the coast, anywhere else you’re way out of range where it’s not even worth it, like I said in bigger cities you have no issues, but as of yet for the majority of people it’s just not worth jt
It is cool though, if hydrogen is used for clean energy storage and aviation, and also shipping / long haul trucking. For personal transportation or transportation on predictable routes and schedules, batteries work better.
Good video
Thanks. I love yours too!
I love your videos DDoI! ❤️
Stan myers was right
Daily dose of Internet will you be using a clip from this video?
You know I searched up hydrogen powered car because DDI introduced it in his last vlog then clicked this dudes vlog then checking through his comments then saw DDI commented then wow whatta coincidence hahaha
“I bought it for the range” - (can’t leave Vancouver)
Probably wanted a car that doesn't run on fossil fuels whilst getting the most range option as possible
also needs to essentially drive 2x my daily commute to fuel the car instead of just plugging a cable in it in the evening. and thinks rapid charging takes several hours.
@@yvs6663 Agreed
yea thats kinda sad.
@@c.o.1887 the car was made with fossil fuels lol and it's not his only car
6:20 When you look at the chemistry of electrolysis, it is impossible to produce hydrogen without using electricity. You can’t make this process “more efficient” as you state
Unless you use Nuclear Energy to create electricity.
@@touki7899 that does not make the process more efficient.
@@cjeam9199 "Nuclear power is already one of the most efficient types of energy available today. An average capacity factor of 91 percent beats other energy forms by a substantial margin. Natural gas produces an average of 50 percent while coal produces energy at almost 59 percent."
@@MT-rc3gn capacity factor is not the same as efficiency. The efficiency of the power generation does nothing to improve the efficiency of the electrolysis process either, it would only improve the efficiency of the overall use case, but it will never beat electric vehicle’s efficiency across the overall use case.
and it required natural gas (methane) to produce, so that sounds less environmentally friendly ..
It's probably a better comparison to make with how they perform against gasoline because, unlike EV, the hydrogen engine isn't as big a departure from what most people are already used to, at least not once there's wide adoption. Fill the tank, drive until it's low, fill it up again. No worrying about charge, which is better reserved for smartphones.
I hope so, but right now, BEV's are ahead of hydrogen in the consumer marketplace. The lack of refueling infrastructure is the biggest impediment. Also, both BEV's and ICE vehicle technology is a moving target, since both technologies are constantly improving, making it that much harder for any competitors to gain an advantage. ICE's have a one-hundred year head start, and when this battle was fought at the turn of the 20th Century, GM's Charles "Boss" Kettering's invention of the self starter gave ICE's an insurmountable advantage over the competitors, steam and BEV's. Then, as now, recharge time and range are still the two biggest obstacles to widespread adoption of BEV's. Newer technology promises ever faster recharge times, but the low energy density of even the best batteries still requires the average BEV to carry around about 1500 pounds (680.4 kg) of battery weight to get range comparable to 120 pounds (54.4 kg) of gasoline. Note: Gasoline weighs about 6.0 lbs./gal., so a twenty (20) gallon gas tank holds about 120 pounds of gasoline.
You really do show your ignorance. There is no internal combustion engine in a hydrogen car. You could use an internal combustion engine but you would reduce the range by around 70%. Do some research.
"I don't care about the leather seats"
"Ooooooo fancy"
I do like the concept. We do have a hydrogen manufacturer here in Las Vegas, but they don't sell to the public. They generate their H from solar power. It still has a carbon footprint but much less of a polluter. It has great advantages and some disadvantages.....I say it will be pretty normal to see H pumps in 20 years or so.
then your wrong. Most cheapest and profitable method is through Oil, and we all know how fuel execs will fight tooth and nail to keep their cheap method.
Unless we get cheaper electricity for electrolysis, theres no point.
@@honkhonk8009 Gee Honk, I'm wrong. I just said we will likely see H stations in the next 20 years. They are already in many European countries and here in the Trucking Industry.....it will likely transform into the regular public platform. H can be made from solar quite cheaply and easily, just need to invest in the infrastructure. It will come, we will see it. Oh, I am pro Oil. My son makes his living in the Bakken in ND.
@@boblindstrom3479 Why tf would you switch to hydrogen for trucking lmfao.
Also Peterbilt > Volvo
@@honkhonk8009 You're asking the wrong person. I'm anti all that BS and ANTI climate change is caused by humans. Just the facts from our dim witted liberal friends. We will likely see them, however. I'm in my 70's and so don't have to put up with the BS you all will....hahaha
Your content is quite logical and answered all the questions in the same sequence they popped up in my mind. Perfect. Subscribed!
Welcome aboard!
Only application I see for hydrogen fuel cells are large freight trucks due to the weight of the battery the truck has to carry along with its cargo but that also create other challenges of installing hydrogen stations all over the country and making a system strong enough to carry the cargo.
I think this is awesome because even though I do like to use gas powered vehicles I know that oil is not reproducible and we never know how many years we have left of crude oil. I think this is a great technology.
It goes without saying that the high cost of gasoline is the reason why the there’s so much more hydrogen here in California than just about anywhere else. $40 to fill a tank might seem like a lot if you’re in a place that already has relatively low gas prices (like Texas for example) - but in California, this cost to fuel is lower than what the cost to fuel just about any gasoline powered vehicle is. Going from the Nissan Altima that I had previously to the Mirai I have right now (albeit bought used - it’s a 2017 model, and ironically enough my Mirai had depreciated down to only $13.5K by the time it had reached the used car dealership I got it from) has actually managed to cut my refueling costs in half. Which of course is saying something given that the nearest hydrogen station to my house is only 2 miles away.
As stated in a design blueprint that I mailed off to Air Products, the largest hydrogen producer on this side of the border, by far the biggest potential source of renewable hydrogen on this planet is a source as common as rainwater itself: thunderstorms. And no, I’m not talking about just channeling the lightning itself after it has already been discharged - all you’d need to do is build some kind of 40,000-foot tall tower with two sets of feeder rods that extend laterally, one at the top and the other at about 5,000 feet. Any thunderstorm that passes over such a tower would then have an artificial circuit to pass the electricity that would otherwise get discharged as lightning through - and at that point all you’d need to do is reroute that resulting charge separation through a bunch of electrolytic rainwater storage tanks on the ground. Put such a system in a place like Florida that gets a lot of thunderstorms, and, problem solved. That said, construction of such a colossal structure that would dwarf the Burj Khalifa by a factor of 20 would be a massive undertaking to say the least.
Way better than just batteries, fast filling and more distance!!!
H makes sense. Mainly because so more efficient on fill up.
That's really cool, I've got a Chevy hybrid, I like the mileage 32mpg on average. The hydrogen concept is very nice, and the fact it's carbon footprint is so clean. They definitely need more fueling areas , or add more fuel tanks. For a greater range.
Did you see the cost of hydrogen? Around $13 per kg, which lasts for real world 50-60 miles depending on driving speed. The carbon footprint is also terrible, because almost all of the current hydrogen is produced out of fossil methane, which releases carbon products into the athmosphere.
I really hope that toyota will stay motivated to improve their technology of hydrogen combustion engines
This isn’t a hydrogen combustion engine vehicle, it’s a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle.
@@cjeam9199 I know but toyota has made a corolla sport with a hydrogen combustion engine but it's not well suited for mass production. But still I really hope that in future if gas cars get banned I still will be able to experience the sound and thrill of a combustion engine while not producing any pollution.
They did, please check the newest Toyota Corolla Hydrogen join 24 hour in Japan drove By the Toyota President himself.
"sit and wait 2-3 hours to charge" supercharging a tesla takes about 15 mins to get to 70%
Exactly!! And that’s about the same amount of time to grab a burger and a quick trip to the washroom.
@@nickurey people love to anti-hype Tesla and try to put down their ability to charge when in reality it is actually better than people that don't know about tesla's would guess.
@@GBR9794 "overload our awful grid systems" do you know that it takes a lot of energy to refine, store, and pump gasoline, right?
@@GBR9794 is the gasoline you use refined in another country?
@@GBR9794 its all about infrastructure. whatever country your in will have update their infrastructure to follow modern tech. same way we saw in the industrial revolution. Maybe Hydrogen would be a good option in your case. you are like the .001% where that would make more sense over an EV
It’s still expensive as regular gas. I feel better charge is much cheaper , of course it’s more time to charge that’s ok.
Lets put that water onto the Winter roads in Winnipeg. Instant ice rink thanks to Hydrogen Zamboni.
It has more range and operates in the cold without as many nasty recycling issues. The Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles have been the end goal for a long time and the days of the current BEV’s are probably numbered.
With 40'000 EV's being sold in the UK in just one Month very recently, and just 30 hydrogen powered cars being sold in the UK in the *whole* of last year, I think you may be mistaken..... There are just 12 or so hydrogen filling points in the whole of the UK, and not all of those allow public access. The UK has 30'000 public EV charging connections, with a further 30'000 being installed in 2022 alone. Nobody here is interested in hydrogen cars.
“I don’t care about the features or the leather seats” a couple seconds later “oo this is nice”
Nice a very very important technology to add more energy to power up the word
Toyota have since made a Hydrogen Combustion engine car that eliminates the need for any battery thus making it a non EV, and it only takes 90 seconds to fill up.
When the board at Toyota found out that the CEO wasn't really interested in making EVs and had chosen the hydrogen Avenue they replaced him with a younger CEO who had been running their luxury brand Lexus but since he was appointed it would appear that he is in Agreement with the former CEO that Hydrogen rather than Electric vehicles are the future.
Believe it or not but Hydrogen vehicles are coming to stay
Very well done I wish you well and I wish Toyota would build a hydrogen charging station far as her those electric cars that don't want to have a hydrogen cell we could at least use the hydrogen to maintain the power station we're here in the United States were Texas lost power for days and every one of the electric car was pretty much stuck in the driveway I wish you well thank you for posting the video
Unfortunately, most hydrogen does not come from hydrolysis. It comes from methane recombination, which involves a good deal of greenhouse gas emissions. Ideally, 100% would come from hydrolysis, but we aren't there yet.
Hmm what if there are thousands on the road during rush hour in winter. Ice slick?
there is another technology out there that strips the hydrogen from ammonia by passing it through a fuel cell which the hydrogen can also fuel an internal combustion engine
I think until we can mass produce electricity cleanly, Hydrogen is just recreating the infrastructure problems of gasoline...once that's solved it'll pick up. If it doesn't battery tech is going to be the winner.
actually it doesn't just recreate the infrastructure problem, it amplifies it. an average gas station can hold up enough petrol for 800 to 1200 cars, while a H2 of compared size can support up to 40 to 60 cars. on the other hand is the enormous cost of building such infrastructure.
Interesting. I have driven Toyota cars for years and love them; they work! I currently drive a CT200H. Hydrogen seems to be the way to go.
real advantage over EV vehicles is battery life. most EVs get 200,000 to 300,000 in there life and recycling is difficult but a well designed hydrogen cell should last like the car you have now.
Would be great if they can get the H manufacturing a lot more green
It's the future. What kind of battery is inside?
California, I believe, is the only state in the US with public hydrogen stations.
Better than electric charge . They need to put stations everywhere
It's pretty cool tbh but I myself would wait for a few generations of tech with hydrogen cars
Hydrogen is the future. How do I know? Because Toyota is a very intelligent company that delivers consistent quality, durability and dependability. In other words, they know what they're doing and how to get it done right. I trust Toyota. Customer loyalty is paramount. Toyota for life.
You should see the redesign of the Mirai looks gangster as fu*k!
ok.....so.....could they not just figure out how to turn the converted exhaust h20 back into fuel? meaning that you could essentially just keep going for longer? Or put water into it?
At this point, there aren’t enough filling stations.. Not sure if it will overtake EVs
If I could refuel it here in Florida, I'd be at the dealership in the morning.
*Insert Peter Griffin‘s „Why are we not funding this“ here*
Charge your car every time you go to bed you have a full charge. Electricity is much cheaper than hydrogen and you can fast charge from 5 to 85% if 40 minutes which you can do at grocery stores.
48$ ? No thanks
Real future!!
*takes a destination car over the lions gate bridge*
Final Destination fans: 😮
I think we have to be honest and realize electric on its own will not be enough. Allow both but encourage those who don't really need it to go electric. So public transport and taxies and long distance travel could be hydrogen. And people who do short journeys to the shops etc go electric.
For repair, goes back to the dealer, just like Tesla.
I heard, no repair manuals issued to the public so far for Tesla!
LOL!
Kind of nice it doesn’t stand out like a Prius so you don’t get the hate
This was a useful video. Thank you.
How much coal or natural gas is going to be burned to make the electricity to feel these eco-friendly cars? Every conversion of energy from one state to another is never 100%
And how much of that electricity comes from wind, wave or solar?
I can imagine hydrogen conversion systems powered by Solar and wind, so they fill up gradually over time. So that filling tanks with hydrogen at stations are frequently being refilled and compressed. Too bad it can't work quite the same large scale to power the grid that way.
Better then electric electric in 0 degree westher and 2 ft of snow good luck is all i can say heating it alone takes mega power. Plus who the hell has a hr to sit to charge daily.
I have been driving battery electric vehicles for 14 years now. My current European BEV uses electricity much more efficiently than any hydrogen car. Your comments regarding charging times are incorrect. I rarely need to spend any more than 30 minutes at a public charger, frequently less as I'm only topping up to complete my journey to get home.
When I arrive home all I need to do is plug my car in. Mysteriously the next morning my car is full with nighttime cheapest electricity. My time plugging in - 30 seconds!
The cost is a downside. MSRP $50k. Airplane grade metal = aluminum + $$$.
Brilliant idea
"I don't care about the features.."
2 seconds later...
"Ooooo, fancy!"
Just found that kind of funny..
😂😂 Totally true!
Saw that part... done with this review.
Gago haha
Immediately scrolled down to the comment section too search for this comment🤣.
You may not do it but they certainly do to the young. for them it is probably quite obvious that a car should offer Spotify 😃 or some other streaming service. and other smart features and they may also want comfortable suspension comfort
"Unlike a gas car you don't need to hold it." Does this guy not have the locking clips in his area?
A lot of areas took them out like in nyc I have never seen one
What the hell is a locking clip?
We don’t have them in the UK either.
Coming from a family (and me) who works on gas stations, pumps that don't lock are super cheap. They also break alot
@@ragingstormgaming7829 hmm it’s weird honestly. We do have the actual mechanism of clips but they don’t work here. Like they remove the part that locks the clip itself so the clip just moves back and forth
The Toyota dealership really just scammed him out of a free fill up
Fr 😭
I mean he probably made way more then what it cost him to refill
The whole hydrogen Car thing is a scam already
@@Chen-sm1og elaborate
@@Chen-sm1og
JCB in the UK, are producing and testing hydrogen powered ice vehicles, and ice add on’s to existing engines already, with zero emissions.
So, it isn’t a scam.
Check your facts first, before you comment.
I'm a little disappointed you didn't hoon it in a save on foods parking lot... Pretty well a standard test for any Canadian vehicle.
Bahahaha... So true!
Ha....great idea but to be honest a busy UK motorway did a bit of weaving in and out in sport mode. It only kicks out 136HP but the torque is awesome....!!
I truly don't understand your comment. "Hoon"? Save on foods parking lot? I'm in Canada and I don't get it. Keep in mind that km 60 years old! Go easy on me!lol!
Ha!! Joining is something American rally driver Ken Block does. Check him out.....he calls himself a Hoonigan!
Hooning I mean not joining
It would totally make sense for the dealership to install a hydrogen station.
I would imagine it is bonkers expensive. They’ve not had fuel filling stations for years, hydrogen stations will be much more expensive than those.
Makes sense. Every toyota dealer that sells Mirai will have a community of loyal Mirai costumers for refueling as well. As more people buy these cars, businesses on hydrogen fueling station will start to appear near the area and will be like domino effect.
Good bye Toyota Prius battery generator Hydrogen in use needs no batteries and i like the battery climate control
@@beedee9534 HFC cars still need a battery.
That's what manufacturers should do to help sales. Any location willing/able to put one in would probably help sales huge. If you can fill up where you bought it, you keep going there.
All the benefits of an EV...? EXCEPT HOME CHARGING!!!
It still has a battery and imo they should have a port as well as the gas fueling port so you can charge the battery up in emergencies :)
You don't fill up your gas vehicle at home either.
@@yjfnfgy and you don't refuel at idk... The middle of nowhere
Cmon, then why the canister exist? Yes not everyone has it at home but literally everyone at home has electricity. Should be a no brainer.
Besides not just meant charging at home. If you're at somewhere where there's no hydrogen charging station you need a back up. Redundancy is important
@@Patrik2166 I'll just stick with gas/diesel.
Dont have to worry about finding a place to refill/recharge. 😂
Plus, I'm a mechanic. So working on my car is easy and far less hazardous.
It could theoretically be done. You have water and electricity, all that is needed for electrolysis.
“Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the planet”
*Pays $42 for hydrogen*
the hydrogen is created on site through water and electrolysis. the cost is likely the electricity that goes into producing the gas. the price likely depends on electricity price of the area and since there are no other competitors they can charge what they want.
the cost of producing the hydrogen should be only a couple of dollars
Correction,
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, not on Earth.
Hello 30% well-to-wheel effiency...
Welcome to Vancouver where we pay 27% fuel taxes LOL
Wrong, that is oxygen.
cool tech and I would much prefer this over a strictly electric car.
If it makes water, shouldn't there be a drinking water compartment? Imagine a car that quenches your thirst and makes ice cubes. That would be a big selling point in Arizona desert type places.
yeah but while it will give water, it won't give minerals, and demineralized water can make you extremely sick
@@tafftafflecomuniste1857 That's not really the reason. The process is not food safe, so it's not advised to drink it.
The amount of water produced is very minimal or there would be Extremely High Inefficiency and Waste.
I wouldn't want to drink Natural Gas water.
@@jacksonbangs6603did u fail chemistry?
Great video.
Obviously the increased availability of fuelling stations in the coming years will make this technology cheaper and more convenient. The price of hydrogen through renewables will fall significantly as scale and productiin efficiency improves.
There is space on the road for both BEV and FCEV.
There are commentators who are hostile to one or other technology. The consumer should not be distracted by such vitriolic narratives. There is room in the market. Just as there was for diesel and petrol.
Decarbonisation is the priority and green hydrogen forms part of that future.
Hydrogen fuelling stations are actually closing down.
Hyde from That 70's show: "a car that runs on water, man!!"
Well most hydrogen is got as a byproduct of fossil fuels because it’s cheaper.
The adjustable steering wheel is a feature that has been around in Toyota since the Lexus LS400 in the 90s
Hydrogen comes mostly from steam reforming natural gas, not electrolysis.
Especially Shell hydrogen.
Steam is Literally Water in a vapor state, not the same as Separated H & O gases, can't breath Oxygen Directly from water molecules.
@@cranfillnathan7411 We know what steam is, but you don't seem to know that Canada produces its hydrogen from the Alberta oil patch, not electrolysis, as was incorrectly suggested in the video. Hydrogen is a dirty fuel here, because it is the byproduct of natural gas + water + fossil fuel heat = more carbon dioxide + carbon monoxide + hydrogen. Until that changes, you would produce fewer green house gasses operating a gas powered car, than a hydrogen one.
Even from electrolysis it would be bad. There is no surplus of green electricity so most of the time it is coal or gas fired power stations that would need to run to provide extra power to the grid. Does not matter for the climate whether on paper you buy green electricity.
@@DanielKivariTeacher Globally, making hydrogen creates about 800 million tons of CO2, plus fossil fuels are used for heat. Yeah, unfortunately, it really is not "green" like the promoters make out. Hydrogen filling stations cost $2-3 million, and service 10-20 cars a day . Could the money building out the infrastructure be better spent on solar and batteries ?
Minor correction: the fuel cell combines the hydrogen with the oxygen to create electricity (basically, electrolysis in reverse). Thus, what comes out of the fuel cell is water, electricity, and heat.
Mike: Well, I bought it for the range and the fuel up time.
Also Mike: I can’t leave Vancouver because there are no fuel up stations
Yes, but that is not a vehicle issue but an infrastucture one. If you had no petrol stations outside Vancouver would you be able to drive an internal combustion vehicle outside the city? No, you would not. So why criticise a vehicle for the currentl lack of infrastructure? The infrastructure is never going to be built if the vehicles do not work after all..... It's not like the current petroleum infrastructure sprang up overnight fully developed you know....
When petro cars introduced, there was a dearth of gas stations as well so drivers couldn't travel very far either.
@@alganhar1 We are talking about now, not the past.
Meanwhile, Mike could have not gone out of his way to waste 5 minutes standing next to a hydrogen pump, and instead, he could have just plugged his Battery Electric Vehicle into an outlet at home before going to sleep for the night, and awoken to a full "tank" (charge).
The advantage petrol had (and has) though was that you could more or less put some in a bucket and take more with you. You can’t do that with hydrogen.
As a Nissan Leaf driver I like the convenience of charging at home. I live in Medford Oregon where there are still no hydrogen fueling stations. Like my cellphone I only need a 110 volt outlet to charge my Nissan Leaf.
A Nissan Leaf is not a car. It's a beer can with a battery drill motor.
here's my take. for normal vehicles i Believe the market will be dominated by pure EV's but for planes and things like that then i see it going towards hydrogen because of the weight of the batteries.
Planes will never use hydrogen or electricity to any great extent due to low energy density compared to jet fuel.
Those new short range electric passenger aircrafts they're building are pretty sweet though. Make no noise, can land pretty much anywhere. I see a great future for them.
@@arcosiancosine1065 well okay
@@arcosiancosine1065 maybe for small planes?
thanks grim, china appreciates this info, but will attack on the commercial side, as well, not just buses and trucks
I've been really impressed by hydrogen fuel cell technology, and the storage tank improvements they've made. I think this is viable.
Totally and it produces more power to weight so our semis will be hydrogen in Canada testing right now actually can't get enough batteries to haul a load of logs off a mountain or lumber to the world
@@joeblow1186 Yet the first battery powered freight locomotive has just been sold. It's going to haul mining trains in Australia.
@@joeblow1186 hard agree, HFC tech makes more sense the more you scale up in vehicle size etc
Good bye Toyota Prius battery generator Hydrogen in use needs no batteries and i like the battery climate control
Bam!! I hope Toyota and Lexus fans make hydrogen fuel cell the thing to own
This is impressive. I wonder if this will take over gas powered vehicles or at least an alternative to regular electric vehicles.
Well it isn't as convenient as a normal EV, because you can't "refuel" this at home, on cheap rate energy or by using solar panels.
@@Brian-om2hh true
Nope it won't. Its a vastly more expensive way to do what an EV does in a car that's far simpler to build. Range is already 350 mi or so (400-500 in a few) in upper level EVs with battery prices due to plummet 50% in the next 3 years as superior/cheaper batteries scale up. (I don't count the paper battries like solid state as yet). LFP energy densities are rising, Cost to manufacture with sold electrolytes are much less. Charge rates rapidly increasing with tabless batteries and other technical approaches.
The sun is setting fast on the PHEV with the massive cost of building out infrastructure, it would need many years to ramp at great taxpayer cost. It has Zero chance to become anything significant before its completely eclipsed as battery prices fall.
The fact that people are still talking about this is a testament to how badly our educational system has fallen. Its like hearing people jabbering away about how 7 is really a smaller number than 3.
The basic math isn't there. Its really quite annoying.
H2 is a political football. Not a remotely viable solution.
I would say from a technical standpoint, hydrogen is good for heavy duty. Think for example of construction machines, they run all day and dont have time for charging, so they need to fill up fast. A car usually runs only a couple of hours, so there is lots of time for charging, and the greater efficiency comes more into focus
Your right. Never thought about it that way.
And people who complained about EV long charging time? C’mon you have to stop for breaks and 15-30 mins of changing goes a long way. There’s no need to charge it to 100 percents all the time.
Yes and semi trucks as well,
Semis and construction equipment, do you have any idea how many batteries would be needed
This was a surprise detour into a new topic. I've heard of these cars but knew nothing about how they worked. Now I do, so thanks! I think it will turn on the availability of hydrogen pumps and on whether all-electric batteries will ever get mor range. It's good to see any gas alternatives taking shape.
Thanks John. We'll see what happens!
After purchasing an EV, I can't see people rushing to get in on hydrogen. I can charge at home for dirt cheap, have 500 km of range whenever I wake up, no need for daily stops. I recently moved from Victoria to St.Johns, and drove my car across the entirety of Canada. Total cost at superchargers? 240 dollars. Average charge time is about 20-25 minutes, but after 4 hours on the road, it's nice to take a break and stretch your legs. Tesla chargers are usually close to some kind of food store, or grocery store, so you can stop for a snack.
@@tysonkauth7232 What I noticed with Tesla is whatever savings you get from no gas you end up spending on food :) Similar thing with cycling :)
I'm in California and I just filled up at 4.56 a gallon. *sigh* Yup I watched this twice. Editing is spot on by the way! love it.
Right on! Thanks!
Gas here in Vancouver is roughly $6 per gallon ($1.50 per litre). We have been living with these kinds of gas prices for a long time, so welcome to the club! hahaha.
And that is $5.50 Canadian
@@raynemichelle2996 a US gallon is 3.78 litres so if it's $4.56/US gallon - that works out to C$1.46/litre. In Victoria - our gas price is $1.54/litre
@@raynemichelle2996 I'm not sure where you're taking your figures from, but the comment from a Vancouverite just previous to yours puts gas at ( $1.50 X 3.78 = $5.67 Can. per U.S. Gallon ) or ( $1.50 X 4.53 = $6.80 Can, per Imperial Gallon )
Good video. I'm an automotive engineer and enjoy this technology. It's worth noting studies have show since there are several methods of isolating the hydrogen. Some methods actually produce less emissions to isolate the hydrogen to move the vehicle than some of the energy production plants used to move standard electric vehicles
I can't wait for this technology to advance and more stations to be available all over. I live in the mid-west of USA. Let's move forward and away from fossil fuels.
regular EV chargers are already available all over the mid-west and other parts of the USA! Hydrogen does lag behind, but EVs are available now!
you do know that the most commonly used substance to create the hydrogen needed in the massive quantities needed is petroleum
get an EV
Hydrogen is half as efficient to make as bev’s and that is not including how they hold it. And hydrogen is usually made with byproducts of fossil fuels as it is cheaper, why do you think the fossil fuel industry is supporting hydrogen so much?
@@HarrisonAdAstra its worse than half. Electric cars use 100% of the available energy. Hydrogen is lucky to get 35% efficiency.
“You get hydrogen from electrolysis…” Well, no … not usually. By far the least expensive way to “get hydrogen” isn’t from 💦 by electrolysis, it’s by steam reforming natural gas, followed by use of water-gas-shift chemistry, both of which generate CO2 - making it not green at all (or, even worse, from steam reforming of coal, which makes even more CO2.
Yes but mining 80lbs of lithium for a electric car produces more co2 and kills more child slaves than steam reforming hydrogen. Until lithium is mined off world AND its mined by robots its about as ethical as BLOOD DIAMONDS and polluting as natural gas.
Lithium is 99% recyclable, eventually the majority of new batteries will be sourced from old batteries. Now how many times can you recycle that coal or any other combustible?
@@superspooky4580 you really are brainwashed... guess where all those rare metals from your devices come from...
@@mostneuter I know where it comes from. And I know that by buying a phone or any technology made today I have blood on my hands. But that’s why I have a 8 year old phone. My 100grams of lithium 8 years ago is a little better than 589,000grams of lithium (a very conservative estimate). A Tesla battery weighs 3500lbs and most of that is lithium. So make that 1300kg of lithium. So yeah my 100grams every 8 years vs some peoples new electric car every 3-4 years. And once those battery’s go bad they get trashed.
@@superspooky4580 Why do you keep talking about lithium? Do you really think it's the only metal on earth?
Also, if you really think Tesla throw away their batteries, you really need to start doing some research on the subject instead of talking shit :)
The only reason why most companies don't recycle their batteries is only because it's cheaper to get new ones, recycling them is already done by some companies at a smaller scale and as it was said previously, lithium is 100% recyclable
edit: Tesla also will have in the future an entire area of their Gigafactory dedicated for recycling batteries if i remember well
You can be a good teacher brother because the way you explain the things is awesome.👍
I mean, if there were more stations and the production of hydrogen were more efficient, it definitely has an advantage over solely electric vehicles.
agree, for now. but you know the nature of technology improves and the biggest drawback of electric vehicles is charge time mostly. but that can be improved with battery technology. however in 10-20-30 years who knows. Hydrogen falls off in efficiency and indirectness compared to pure ev's. In order to produce hydrogen they still require electricity, why go the long route when you can directly store that through a battery?
@@Tincanturtle Hello, I was reading your comments and I agree in the majority but had you thought about the cost of making the batteries needed for the electric cars, and for the hydrogen cars too. Booth use batteries to sore the energy but in comparison the hydrogen cars use a small battery because they produce and store only one part of it.
@@itsjortra291 thats an issue of production which as time goes on will be mostly resolved in my opinion. Tesla for instance claimed that in the future when most vehicles are out in the road are EV in 10-20-30 years they will be able to reuse batteries as recycleables. I believe the issues we see now are due to the fact that technology is still new and so is the means for production as well as the infrastructure. But time will resolve all things in my opinion
@@Tincanturtle Save we can't recycle Lithium at all, EVs are actually more harmful for the environment and require more energy input than traditional gas powered vehicles. Hydrogen is by far better, even with it's inefficiencies.
But you don't need battery to store Hydrogen gas. That's better than straght up electricity
Nice video Mike. However, everyone forgets to factor-in the energy and pollution used and created during the mining and refining of ingredients to produce the batteries for BEVs.The process is destructive to the environment and the energy used to make the batteries must be considered against the energy used for producing hydrogen. Also, the recycling of batteries requires more energy to be used. This needs to be considered when comparing these two kinds of electric vehicle
Good job 👏 😊 Andrew
The massive elephant in the room which no one talks about is the vast amount of manufactured goods people consume from clothes to settees also energy production itself they contribute far more to climate change the vehicles, the amount all vehicles contribute currently to climate change being less than 10% while ev's will help it's a tiny percentage of what needs to be done
@@HamguyBacon Mm I wouldn't say it's a lie it's a naturally occurring phenomenon the climate is in constant change albeit not caused by vehicles this ev stuff is pure hype
@@stevewalsh-balshaw1727 it is cAused by vehicles in part of course
@@jacobdaniels3246 I agree however if a person has an ice vehicle and only drives when warrented for such as long journeys holidays etc instead of commutes the carbon footprint is way less than the manufacture of a new ev for instance I cover less than 3k a year folk need to stop using their cars for school runs local runs etc then these ev's are not required the hype concerning vehicles is way over represented by government and the media they would be better served on discussion of the 90% caused by none vehicular carbon emissions electricity production, housing, clothes manufacturer, farming etc the list goes on however as always the motorists are an easy hit
What I would envision in the future would be having home fuel cell units creating electricity for the home (not connected to grid), fuel cell units would also power your Electric vehicle (I think electricity storage will change rapidly in next 10 years) and many more EV power stations will come on line as charge times decrease to 5 - 10 minutes. Hydrogen will be delivered to home or delivered to a home tank.
The only problem with hydrogen powered vehicles is the horrible hydrogen infrastructure.
in europe theres a new law each 150km we should have a station starting next year i think
@@stephenr80 Oh cool
I think fuel cells might be useful for semi-trucks and heavy equipment (especially if it’s generated from renewable energy), but pure electrics are better for most everyday drivers. It’s so much more convenient to recharge at home and never have to go to the gas station!
It shall be the other way around. Battery pack is heavy. No so much probelm for commercial viechle, but big probelm for passenger viechle. Hydrogen fuel cell is a goo range extender.
@@林振华-t4v Actually a battery pack is a big negative for commercial vehicles. They are too heavy for commercial vehicles (especially trucks) that have a maximum weight they can carry on roads/highways. Cars are so light that adding the extra weight won't inconvenience the average Joe because the efficiency of an EV is better for non-commercial drivers (they don't have to care about weight restrictions). Commercial vehicles would benefit from hydrogen being way lighter and saving time on fueling up. Thats why Caddyzig is right.
thats what Hyundai is trying to do in Europe. A fleet of hydrogen powered semis trucks
@@林振华-t4v Hydrogen doesn't make sense for consumer vehicles (possibly not even most commercial ones either) and pretty much everyone that's not Toyota has learned this.
@@dylanlong6269 Yea, Semi's with weight restrictions would go Hydro. Aviation that need to have as little weight as possible to fly would go Hydro as well.
@DownieLive -
For efficency conclusion , everyone must keep in mind that the powerplant is already integrated into the Hydrogen car , while normal electric cars (incl. Tesla) have it externalized in the power grid (incl. tons of wires , trtansmission transformers + substations , rectifiers & Power Plants)
Except for the process of creating, (by electrolysis or methane re-forming), compressing, building storage and transportation infrastructure , transportation to refill sites, storage and dispensing of the pressurized hydrogen. Battery electric cars (BEV and PHEV) use existing infrastructure (just like fueled cars have with refineries and gas stations) for home charging and in practice use the energy more efficiently.
Just pointing out a few things: Hydrogen is light, but the fuel tank aren't, and the fuel cell stack isn't light either. This Mirai is actually heavier than a Tesla Model 3, despite being of similar dimensions. As it stands right now, all the hydrogen you can buy is derived from fossil fuels. In Vancouver most electricity on the grid is hydroelectric (very low emission power source), but the pump hydrogen you buy was made by cracking natural gas and releasing CO2. Eventually the "idea" with hydrogen is to make "green" hydrogen with electrolysis, but right now that's cost-prohibitive.
There is a solution to all of that, well most of it. The fuel tank will always be heavy, it's compressed gas and that means solid steel tanks. But instead of deriving from fossil fuels, you build electrolysis factories and run them off of nuclear power plants which is the cleanest form of energy. After that, it's quite simple.
I don’t understand anything you said lol, I’m not a nerd sorry
@@precession6027 ok
@@ghostrikeit It is a simple process, but it's not very energy efficient, and that's kind of the problem. It's always the case that the nuclear energy used to make the hydrogen to fuel up FCEVs, would be able to charge 2-3 times as many battery electric cars, for the same amount of energy used in both cases. The underlying problem with producing hydrogen is that you need to change the state of the energy many times, each time you do it, you lose some of that energy content as heat at each step in the conversion process - batteries are much more energy efficient at doing this. A simple way to put this is: if we went either all Battery or all Hydrogen Fuell Cell tomorrow, going with hydrogen would require about 3 times as many new power plants to be constructed, vs the situation for battery vehicles. It's certainly possible, it just wouldn't be the best use of resources.
@@ghostrikeit fuel tank hydrogen is carbon fiber
currently writing a dissertation on the potential of FCEVs so a bit of a coincedence that this video got recommended. The ineffeciences he mentioned here are an issue in cars but the power density means they scale better than batteries in larger vehicles. Look out for more hydrogen buses etc in future!
They've been testing fuel cell buses in Vancouver for probably 20 years. See Ballard Power Systems.
I woudn't bet the farm on that. A number of H2 bus operators aren't thrilled now and are likely to be far less thrilled as other battery cost continue to drop at 8% per year or more as they have for some time now.
Also "power density" = charge/discharge rate
"energy density" = capacity. You don't want to misuse the terms in your paper.
The use case for PHEVs is shrinking every year. Busses are already gone.
For long haul trucks and ships, I would use Nat Gas as that's already been done and is Far easier and cheaper to get. If Tesla builds out mega chargers, even long haul trucks will fall to EV.
2-3 hours to charge... He is so missed informed that's why he went with Hydrogen-electric instead of battery-electric. Our Tesla Model 3 charges to 80% in under 25 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger. And if we don't leave town, we would never have to wait for charging because we charge while we sleep and wakes up with a full battery.
But gas can charge in less than 5, and that’s what they’re all competing with.
@@melvinmcfly4498 the man says he wanted a car with more range and chose hydrogen, but there isn't enough hydrogen refilling stations for him to go out of town, which defeats his reasoning of picking hydrogen over electric. This has nothing to do with gas cars. He shoulda bought a Prius if he wanted more range and faster refilling.
@@archemity that is true, hydrogen still has almost no places to refuel so there isn’t much reason to use it.
@@melvinmcfly4498 And it cost more than gas, and is still a really dirty fuel and needs more power to be made too. Not to mention you can't have the stations inside city limits here at least, as we have seen in Norway they are prone to exploding.
@@melvinmcfly4498 But not for much longer, once ICE car makers begin the switch to electric...
DownieLive needs so much more attention he deserves it.
"Never stop adventuring"
"Embrace your inner child"
"Stay fearless & stay curious"
"Stay positive. Stay wild"
“I don’t ask u anything, just if u want, give my GoProvids a chance and you’ll see...”
Video is so neat 🤓 the very first video I saw of yours was when you were showing your mom the cool features of Tesla
Oh yeah!!! That was a great video! My first video to hit 100K views. I guess my channel hasn't changed much 😂
Hey, well done and can you do a follow up on it? What has improved with the charging station, there is a new Mirai version out and as well in Europe, several Countries are preparing its economy to use more hydrogen. Especially The Netherlands, Germany, Spain, ....
No.
Love the “baum-chika-waw-waw” soundtrack! 🤣They installed a pump for these at the 76 in our old neighborhood (Sherman Oaks, CA) and we started to see several of them around town. good looking cars!
I much prefer hydrogen fuel cells to electricity. To me its a no-brainer
I mean, yeah...
Hho conversion is way more inefficient than a battery, no brainer is to ignore the fact that this was developed for military aplication not economical.
@@santiagoperez2094 it's more inefficient because it hasn't been developed more. It is the most abundant element in the universe, the car doesn't rely on a heavy, slowly decaying battery which has a far lower range. Its far quicker to fuel up and you can even have an internal combustion engine using hydrogen as demonstrated by toyota. So it's inefficiency is a minor problem with an excellent fuel
@@ballisticmissl7919 its inefficient because the chemical reaction is inneficient, hho its the n1 reaction in mechanical speed, upt to mach 9, and its also one of the hottest.
Yes hidrogen is the most common element on the universe, you know the second? Oxygen.
Most of the hydrogen on earth its already stable in an oxyde or hydro carbon, wich means electrolisis or pirolisis, both not green neither smart.
Iron niquel batteries are virtually inmortal, its not used because batteries life span its the least of our concearns.
Unless you have a fusion reactor under your hood, or you need a heavy duty long range vehicle, hydrogen its simply not the awnser.
@@ballisticmissl7919 and i dont kniw who lied to you but load a high pressure gass can't be done fast, unless you want to become next hindemburg.
I remember a few years back I heard about using Hydrogen in a car when there was one pump for it in all of the UK. Glad to see the tech has really developed since then. Keep up the great work man!
Thanks Quinton!
@@DownieLive you should do the same for a Tesla. Then you could make a comparison video, so it’s basically one idea for two videos.
@@DownieLive there is still only a dozen more or less.
Developed since then? The Car's internals haven't really changed since 10 years...
I think for now battery powered cars like the Tesla will win out over hydrogen fuel cell. But in the long run, I am quite certain that the fuel cell will win out.
Hey! I actually work for the company that builds, owns and operates the hydrogen refuelling stations in BC, including the one you went to in North Vancouver. It's awesome that you're giving positive exposure to this technology. It's really important for people see hydrogen fuel cell and battery electric as equally positive alternatives to conventional combustion engines rather than competing technologies. Great video.
Great technology that could well see off battery power. These cars look so good in dark colours.
I think this will be awesome once solid state batteries are full stream. Combining those 2 technologies will be nothing short of awesome.
Solid state batteries, les. Hydrogen, you are joking, aren't you?
Lol, takes $5-7 to charge my LR model 3, overnight at home, for about the same range, no need to go around looking for fueling stations. When doing a trip, takes about 20minutes to go 0-80%, about 400km, at Tesla superchargers. Barely enough time to go use the washroom and grab a snack. Oh and they got superchargers all over US, and coast to coast Canada.
But thanks for the review, never seen a real world drive of the Mirai so far.
In certain areas there’s superchargers, in most areas it’s just regular chargers as of now unless you’re in a bigger city.
@@KDlGG at the moment Tesla got the higher speed superchargers along the main highways enough to drive from coast to coast, new ones are being built every week and in car navigation shows the status of the charger and availability. The in city superchargers are more for the convenience of those who can't charge at home and aren't always the fastest ones.
To charge you only plug in, no app or any other authentication necessary, payment goes from the credit card that's already on file when you buy the car.
Overall it's a pretty well thought off and stress free experience. It only took me 2 charges to get from Langley, BC to Canmore, AB. One in Kamloops, 2nd in Revelstoke. $8-10 each. And barely enough time each charge to go use the washroom and grab a snack for the road.
@@ConstantinSirbu in Washington, where I’m at, you’re fucked unless you live in a sliver of central Washington and by the coast, anywhere else you’re way out of range where it’s not even worth it, like I said in bigger cities you have no issues, but as of yet for the majority of people it’s just not worth jt
It is cool though, if hydrogen is used for clean energy storage and aviation, and also shipping / long haul trucking. For personal transportation or transportation on predictable routes and schedules, batteries work better.
There is a REASON airplanes do to use it...because it is NOT viable.