Hive também precisa pensar bastante. Também precisa planejar bem as jogadas. Logo, compartilha dos mesmos "defeitos" do xadrez. 😉 Sendo assim, não surpreende tanto que tenha ficado de fora.
@@franciscolobo8919 in a more recent video "top 10 games Tom is wrong about" Tom's reaction, he admitted he was wrong about Hive. So future lists of this kind may contain Hive. Hehehe.
I wonder: Imagine if Yinsh was the most popular board game in the world for decades. And Chess just made its appearance this year 2017 Would Tom make a video about: "10 games better than Yinsh"? And would he include Chess on the list?
@@StyxTBuferd but Chess has piece variety. Maybe it will even be designed with a similar negative feedback loop(unless this parallel universe has an obsession with runaway leaders)
I teach chess for a living, and let me say, chess is HARD. As much as I enjoy matching wits with others who have studied the game for years, those people are relatively few. I appreciate all the other abstract options out there that I can play with non-chess friends. Thanks for the list!
There's also some good chess variants for those who just really like chess - Shuuro, which has a customized army, bigger board and randomized plinths. Atomic chess - when taking a piece explode those around it. Racing Kings, each players pieces, without pawns, set at one end of board. You have to get your King to the other side without getting him in check.
Chess fan here, currently rated approx 1850 (I've not updated my rating); I play fairly regularly. That said chess has ossified and is dead as a door knob, the community just doesn't know it yet. It's highly dependent on memorization. So why am I a chess fan. Two word "chess variants". I also love GO but it's different; Chess is about maneuver, GO is about occupation. The mindset is totally different. Tom has some excellent alternatives here. I would add Chess2, Chess 960, Moab Chess, Amazons, Lines-of-Action, Hex/Havannah, Hive, Hnefatafl, and Camelot (Inside Moves). Oh, yeah, spice up chess with Knighmare Chess, Rouge Chess and Castle-Mate. Word of caution though, chess purists are jerks. I play with them often and I wouldn't give them the time of day. Just don't go there.
I forgot to mention Arimaa, it's awesome. And, at another level, if you want the tenseness and drive of chess but more fun play backgammon with a good player, use the doubling cube and put 25¢ on the table. It doesn't seem like a lot but when the double cube goes to 4x you'll have some mind and heart wrenching decisions to make. It's just $1 but it'll seem like $1000. I still occasionally dip my toe in the chess pool but I play other games for excitement, camaraderie and fun. BTW, backgammon can trace it's history back almost 6,000 years. A version of it was being played during the time of Christ, Homer and the dawn of civilizations. There's probably a reason it's still around; in a modern form of course.
Martian Chess is the Pyramid Arcade game Tom is talking about. I think Homeworlds deserves a mention from Pyramid Arcade as well. If Chess and a Space 4X game had a baby, it would be Homeworlds.
I was surprised that Tom didn't mention Arimaa. All pieces in Arimaa have a single simple moveset, but they are differentiated by their ability to push/pull other pieces around the board (e.g. an elephant can push/pull a rabbit, but not vice versa). You have four moves per turn that can be split among your pieces however you like, so the board is quite a bit more dynamic than Chess.
@@thedicetower Then you should have named this video "10 games i like more than chess", because i don't know how you can think that any of this games is "better" than chess
This is the only thing I agree with, go, checkers, backgammon, and chess are the four essential games. All others are for kids and are not made to be pleasant and more mature. The list itself is an opinion that is highly controversial.
@@badtaco14You're a little harsh to all other games in existence. I would argue all games on this list were meant as mature strategy games and do have strategic complexity, some more, some less. Also, checkers? seriously?
You should realize that people who play their favorite games (Chess, Magic, a fighting game, a sport, etc) everyday are different from casual gamers like you who treat games as disposable (play once or a few times and move on to new ones). The games you listed are not good at all for people who look for a deep game to play competitively for decades, but they might be nice additions for poeple who plays chess casually once a week or so.
I own Onitama and the expansion. I have to say it is my second favorite 2 player strategy game next to Stratego. I think Hive is also a very fun abstract strategy.
I'm currently on book 2 of Kingkiller Chronicles and was inspired to make my own fantasy board game. The fact you have his board game listed in this vid is a crazy coincidence! lmfao!
Ahhh man. You missed one I would have sworn you would have suggested. I would have added "Pocket Hive". Great fun and strategy game for all ages. Love the new format Mr Vasel!
My favorite of this style is Duell. It's chess but every piece except the king is a six sided die and the top number is how many spaces it can move and they can only turn once. Great game. Tak is also very fun.
At this point 277 comments and no one mentioned Abalone? A wonderful abstract game easy to teach and fun to play. Is there a reason to exclude it I don't know about? Also Pentago, no mention, great game! Othello? Is it me?
I do like the 'Better than series' yet I can't agree that many of these games are 'better' than chess. I love chess. I'm no great at it but I love it. These games are indeed great choices for those that want something different other than chess. Especially Onitama and Santorini.
One question! Decades ago we saw the great russian champions of chess "playing" on tv. They were like "hollywood stars"! They play for hours and won even against computers! This gave the idea to the people that chess is the more complex game in the world and it is only for super-brains. Do you think that a good chess player will always win the games in Tom's list? Are these games all easier than Chess? Or maybe they are so different that a professional chess player could be awful playing these games? It's something I always asked myself.
We are getting more challenging. BGG indicates that there are only 1474 games better than chess. Why not do 10 Games Better Than The Castles of Burgundy? It is number 11 on BGG, the list would write itself!
I have played many games of chess over the years and I have enjoyed it but after discovering my local designer board game shop I can honestly say if I never play another game of chess it would be to soon.
Odd choice of title: the "better than" series. This is bound to be misunderstood and agitate a lot of people of which the game put in the bad spotlight is their favorite. Especially Chess should probably have been left alone. It's also odd even more abstract games (like Yinsh, Dvonn, Kamisado, Tak, Glux) are then recommended. The title could've just as well been: abstract games i like more then chess. Big board strategy wargames could have been recommended and might have been more successful in overshadowing Chess. Also this seems to show that someone who does like a game, might be more suited to recommend a better game like it.
Liking a game more does not make the game better. There's probably more people who like Transformers: Dark of the Moon more than like Citizen Kane. That does not make TDotM a better movie. From an objective standpoint, chess is one of the greatest games of all time. This is one of those cases where Tom is trying to squeeze a concept (alternatives to chess) into a brand ("games better than") that it doesn't really fit.
Tom seems to be saying that if you like Chess, you will like abstracts. However many of the abstracts are far from Chess. For example, Dvonn is almost purely a tactical game, while Chess is a mix of tactics and strategy. Of the ones he listed, only Onitama and The Duke are Chess-like, in my opinion. I would have added For The Crown and (if it was still in print) Navia Drapt.
I feel the gipf series is perfect as an alternative for people who like chess. They are strategically rich games that are also quicker to play, which is a nice bonus
The duke!!! Finally found its name! I played it once and totally love it! Been searching in google to no avail, came here on youtube and found it on the first vid!
I love this series, the aim of offering an alternative to games which casual board game players may play but aren't necessary good games is a great one. But every other game in this series isn't generally considered a good board game in its own right. Chess is the one traditional game that doesn't fit the bill. A lot of chess players are avid gamers, and if you can find a game that taps into that level of strategy & battle of will, will be interested. Personally I haven't seen it yet, I haven't played all of these but I'm willing to bet it's not them. Be honest Tom these simply aren't better games, you may enjoy them more but they are not better.
I think Scrabble is a good game too. Though both "good game" and "better game" are rather subjective. Better at what? In this series it seems to mean "better at entertaining Tom".
Wow, just came across this list in 2021. Looking for other games than chess to challenge my chess loving 8 yr old son. Love it. Surprised that Khet aka Laser Chess didn't make the list.
Confusion: Espionage and Deception in the Cold War is my favourite. Given the glowing review the Dice Tower gave it when it came out I'm surprised not to see it here.
Six Making ... for people who _almost_ like chess, but think it is a little long and boring. Six Making feels, at the same time, more simple yet more complex than chess. Think, chess on a smaller board, with nothing but pawns, BUT, you can move pawns into each other to build them up into the more powerful pieces... rook, knight, etc... if you build all the way up to a king, you win. Oh, and you can move and/or split any piece, not just your own. :O And it plays in half an hour. A truly amazing game. I'll never go back to chess.
This is a really cool list. To the folks that say Tom is ragging on Chess, watch the video again. He literally says "Chess is a fine game," among other things in praise of it. I tend to really enjoy abstract strategy games in general and I can agree that Chess is truly a great game that has stood the test of time. But, like Tom, Chess is far from my PERSONAL favorite in what it does. Great list Tom! I am enjoying seeing more abstract strategy games featured on the Dice Tower. Please cover more Clemens Gerhards games! Those games deserve more love in the US, in my opinion.
Well, he should not have said 'BETTER THAN CHESS' He could have said as much fun as, ........just as challenging as............viable alternatives to.............. and why is he singling chess out? why not GO. Which, in my opionion is really the only one ,nteresting game that is on par with chess. It's simple, elegant, and deep , just like chess but different. Both are easy to play, but hard to master.
Personally, you could have also called this amazing bang for your buck games. I have mined more value out of these less pricey games than any in my collection. Particularly Onitama but I also love Yinsh.
When I see the title z I thought he is Pakistani because Chess is an Indian game means originated in India and only Pakistanis hate it but when I see the name of the Channel 😅
Good list of abstracts, but it seems like more of a Top 10 Abstracts, rather than 10 games that have a similar feel to Chess but are more modern. Some omissions: For the Crown - chess mixed with dominion Stratego- or even better, Confusion...Cold War Quoridor- really captures that back and forth feeling of chess
Skipped right over Knightmare Chess! Although in my experience hardcore chess players hate this game because it "isn't pure"....but people who know a little about the basics of chess LOVE this game!
Interesting list, I expected Hive or Tzaar to make an appearance but surprised that it didn't make the list. But good recommendations for other strategy games
I have a chess like game for 15 years now but i did not sell it yet. It has been made in digital format but very obscure to find and use. When I have more resources to make it i will if i ever. need to find proper people to make.
I would advise against trying to convince a chess champion or someone who loves chess to look for different games that "scratch that itch." I've tried many of the games on this list, but the results are the same. Chess enthusiasts just want chess. They like the simple board and complex ruleset. They love their game much like Tom loves Cosmic Encounter, or I love Pandemic. And most of these men and women are NOT the Elo rank touting snobs most people characterize chess players as. They just really like chess. End of story. These games are for people who played chess once, and it didn't work for them.
Tom is not saying that these games are generally better than chess. He think these games are better than chess for him. He is not saying you will like this better than chess, he is saying if you enjoy chess you will likely enjoy these. If you love chess, are crazy about chess, and your job is chess-related, you are NOT looking for something else. This list is suggested for regular normal people that enjoy chess now and then.
I don't think anyone's under any illusion that after watching this video, Magnus Carlsen is about to lob his Chess set in the bin and start playing Loony Pyramids instead. Chess has a big advantage if you want to play seriously as it has a huge following and it's relatively easy to find players at many levels. However played casually, it has a number of flaws - it has the same set up every time, AP is common, games can end in draws, its ubiquity means that players are often at different ability levels and (at a casual level) it can feel a bit dull. All these games avoid those issues and are arguably a better choice for people who want an abstract two player game to play casually with a family member or friend.
The problem this list admittedly concedes from the onset is nothing does what chess does in an entire package. These games each do a different part or embrace a different aspect of chess fully. That, in turn, highlights not only why it cannot be replaced, but why trying to use any of these games to replace it is problematic. Most people who place chess, even at a casual level, want the entire pie, not just a slice.
You could make that point about any solid game..... even if it is a chess variant. There is nothing inherently special about chess... it is just one of many solid games that exist. For example, Onitama is a better game than chess, it is more elegant, imo ...if I play a game of chess it might sort of scratch that Onitama itch, but it could never replace it.
Played Chess for years, it was alright. Neuroshima Hex completely replaced it for me, among a handful of other abstracts. From a personal anecdote among my friend sample size, chess is for people unaware of other options out there.
This needed to happen. As someone who has logged over 600 plays so far this year on chess.com, is ranked at a high intermediate level, and who does the Tactics puzzles every day... Chess needs to be dethroned. It is NOT a measure of your intelligence, it is NOT perfect (witness the, frankly, slimy cowardice that abounds and is *rewarded* in endgame play!), and its main claim to international fame is its age.Again, I adore chess and play it constantly. But, it needs to be dethroned in the popular consciousness and there could easily be better two-player abstracts out there, which people will ignorantly eschew in favor of the Almighty CHESS! Lol. Needs to change.
Chess is a complicated abstract strategy game on this present day requiring only two obvious concepts, prearrangement and memorization. You cannot improve if you used the same thinking if you already know. I'm applying my skills to the game implement and to real situations. I'm a game enthuziast and instructor and recommend the kind and genre of the game to my friends, trainees and students in school. Here are my top 10 favorites better than chess : 1. Abalone 2. Hive 3. Othello 4. Domination 5. Santorini 6. Backgammon 7. Onitama 8. Pylos 9. Quoridor 10. Carcassonne 😂 ✌ ☕ 🍩 😁
I am a huge board games fan (and by the way your channel is great!) but also a huge chess fan. For me, chess is quite simply a reliable way to know if the work I put in equals progress. Some people go into chess the wrong way (memorizing openings way too soon) and do not have a chance to see the beauty in it. Also, you can find someone to play at anytime with the internet, which is great. I am not a master (my ELO is 1300), I just like the game. I agree with others talking about Hive, great game and the carbon edition reminds me of chess. Last point : the picture you picked for the chess set was awful...
I appreciate these lists, there were already a couple on this list that I'd heard Tom talk about that looked interesting. Although I think for some people that like chess but don't necessarily need the game to be abstract, there may be appeal in some of the Euro games that start symmetrically.
Chess is a wonderful game, that I was, by familial tradition, taught by the age of five. That said, and although I think it's the current Queen of Board Games, there are many other stimulating and fun games out there. C.f. Bridge. Players have gotten to the point that any socializing whilst playing is considered to be signaling. It's no long a past-time, but rather a rigid sport, that you might as well play over, or against, a computer. Hence, most of the card games I play are centuries old; before that, dice games, race games, and sorting/feeding games. Most ancient, are human variations on bob-stones. And this is why I like ABGs, like Quarto, Tak, etc... It's like playing 17th and 18th c. card games, but in a 21st century parlor. *falls of soapbox*
I like Hive, though personally I'm a fan of the Duke, it does have a randomness aspect, but the flipping after you move has lead to more interesting games. Haven't tried Onitama yet.
I'm shocked Hive didn't make the list. Seemed an obvious one.
I love Hive. Especially the pocket version. It's so versatile.
Hive também precisa pensar bastante. Também precisa planejar bem as jogadas. Logo, compartilha dos mesmos "defeitos" do xadrez. 😉 Sendo assim, não surpreende tanto que tenha ficado de fora.
@@5ammy13 is it on mobile
@@monisprabu1174 yep, it also has an app which is great. The base game is free and you would need to pay for the expansions.
Me toco, I watched the video expecting to hear Hive as an obvious choice!
I feel like Hive would fit this list perfectly.
Hive's not on the list? That's a crime against nature
I Agree, I was waiting for being in the list.
@@franciscolobo8919 in a more recent video "top 10 games Tom is wrong about" Tom's reaction, he admitted he was wrong about Hive. So future lists of this kind may contain Hive. Hehehe.
I wonder:
Imagine if Yinsh was the most popular board game in the world for decades.
And Chess just made its appearance this year 2017
Would Tom make a video about: "10 games better than Yinsh"?
And would he include Chess on the list?
This and more up next, on The Twilight Zone
Probably not since Chess is a game where the player who is doing well will get stronger and stronger over time, while YINSH is the exact opposite.
Chess was made before history
@@StyxTBuferd really? LOL
@@StyxTBuferd but Chess has piece variety. Maybe it will even be designed with a similar negative feedback loop(unless this parallel universe has an obsession with runaway leaders)
HAHAHAHA... the ad was for Garry Kasparov Teaches Chess Master Class
I teach chess for a living, and let me say, chess is HARD. As much as I enjoy matching wits with others who have studied the game for years, those people are relatively few. I appreciate all the other abstract options out there that I can play with non-chess friends. Thanks for the list!
There's also some good chess variants for those who just really like chess - Shuuro, which has a customized army, bigger board and randomized plinths. Atomic chess - when taking a piece explode those around it. Racing Kings, each players pieces, without pawns, set at one end of board. You have to get your King to the other side without getting him in check.
Which of these is your favorite? And are there apps for any of these variants?
Chess fan here, currently rated approx 1850 (I've not updated my rating); I play fairly regularly. That said chess has ossified and is dead as a door knob, the community just doesn't know it yet. It's highly dependent on memorization. So why am I a chess fan. Two word "chess variants". I also love GO but it's different; Chess is about maneuver, GO is about occupation. The mindset is totally different. Tom has some excellent alternatives here. I would add Chess2, Chess 960, Moab Chess, Amazons, Lines-of-Action, Hex/Havannah, Hive, Hnefatafl, and Camelot (Inside Moves). Oh, yeah, spice up chess with Knighmare Chess, Rouge Chess and Castle-Mate. Word of caution though, chess purists are jerks. I play with them often and I wouldn't give them the time of day. Just don't go there.
I forgot to mention Arimaa, it's awesome. And, at another level, if you want the tenseness and drive of chess but more fun play backgammon with a good player, use the doubling cube and put 25¢ on the table. It doesn't seem like a lot but when the double cube goes to 4x you'll have some mind and heart wrenching decisions to make. It's just $1 but it'll seem like $1000. I still occasionally dip my toe in the chess pool but I play other games for excitement, camaraderie and fun. BTW, backgammon can trace it's history back almost 6,000 years. A version of it was being played during the time of Christ, Homer and the dawn of civilizations. There's probably a reason it's still around; in a modern form of course.
I second Chess 2 and Backgammon.
BLASPHEMY!! if you find chess stagnant, put away your chess engine. lol
Think any game you obsess with becomes stale.
Martian Chess is the Pyramid Arcade game Tom is talking about. I think Homeworlds deserves a mention from Pyramid Arcade as well. If Chess and a Space 4X game had a baby, it would be Homeworlds.
Fischer random, the ultimate chess variant
I would've added Hive, Quarto, and Longhorn to the list, but its still a great selection, good job.
Shogi is the only chess-like game better than chess that I can think of.
Thats what i had on mind.
I was surprised that Tom didn't mention Arimaa. All pieces in Arimaa have a single simple moveset, but they are differentiated by their ability to push/pull other pieces around the board (e.g. an elephant can push/pull a rabbit, but not vice versa). You have four moves per turn that can be split among your pieces however you like, so the board is quite a bit more dynamic than Chess.
Mostly because I don't like it that much.
@@thedicetower Then you should have named this video "10 games i like more than chess", because i don't know how you can think that any of this games is "better" than chess
@@ian6796 That doesn't seem to be a nice way to disagree. :)
@@thedicetower Guess you are right. Sorry dude, didn't mean to be rude.
Go!
Nick Sibicky Yes!
This is the only thing I agree with, go, checkers, backgammon, and chess are the four essential games. All others are for kids and are not made to be pleasant and more mature. The list itself is an opinion that is highly controversial.
@@badtaco14You're a little harsh to all other games in existence. I would argue all games on this list were meant as mature strategy games and do have strategic complexity, some more, some less. Also, checkers? seriously?
You should realize that people who play their favorite games (Chess, Magic, a fighting game, a sport, etc) everyday are different from casual gamers like you who treat games as disposable (play once or a few times and move on to new ones).
The games you listed are not good at all for people who look for a deep game to play competitively for decades, but they
might be nice additions for poeple who plays chess casually once a week or so.
Exactly: The lists are not for addicts, but for those who might enjoy a game and thus be open to others.
There are games has owned for decades. There are many he does not consider disposable.
I own Onitama and the expansion. I have to say it is my second favorite 2 player strategy game next to Stratego. I think Hive is also a very fun abstract strategy.
Top 10 list of games Tom would rather be destroyed at instead of Chess. 😀
these all look cool but imo none of them look better than chess, chess is still the deepest, greatest 2 player game ever
How in the world did Hive not make this list. I definitely think Hive should be number 1 on this list. It is am amazing abstract game.
Even if you dont like it yourself, its criminal to not mention hive.
I'm currently on book 2 of Kingkiller Chronicles and was inspired to make my own fantasy board game. The fact you have his board game listed in this vid is a crazy coincidence! lmfao!
"Go" is a very popular game in China and other countries currently, if you like chess, it might be interesting.
Right
Ahhh man. You missed one I would have sworn you would have suggested. I would have added "Pocket Hive". Great fun and strategy game for all ages. Love the new format Mr Vasel!
I have heard Tom mention in other videos he doesn't like Hive. But I think Zee does, not certain though.
Big chess fan and honestly my favourite game to play when I want a deep, purely skill-based game with tough decisions I reach for BattleCon
As a casual chess player, I find that Heroclix scratches the itch for strategy and tactics slightly better than chess. Personal opinion.
My favorite of this style is Duell. It's chess but every piece except the king is a six sided die and the top number is how many spaces it can move and they can only turn once. Great game. Tak is also very fun.
At this point 277 comments and no one mentioned Abalone? A wonderful abstract game easy to teach and fun to play. Is there a reason to exclude it I don't know about? Also Pentago, no mention, great game! Othello? Is it me?
I do like the 'Better than series' yet I can't agree that many of these games are 'better' than chess. I love chess. I'm no great at it but I love it. These games are indeed great choices for those that want something different other than chess. Especially Onitama and Santorini.
One question! Decades ago we saw the great russian champions of chess "playing" on tv. They were like "hollywood stars"! They play for hours and won even against computers! This gave the idea to the people that chess is the more complex game in the world and it is only for super-brains.
Do you think that a good chess player will always win the games in Tom's list? Are these games all easier than Chess?
Or maybe they are so different that a professional chess player could be awful playing these games?
It's something I always asked myself.
Hive is certainly worthy to be incl - only game though I rate intellectually better than Chess is the game Go.
I don't play chess often, but I do enjoy it. Here are a few games that I think should have been included on this list:
Quantum, Stratego, and Feudal.
Stratego is garbage
We are getting more challenging. BGG indicates that there are only 1474 games better than chess.
Why not do 10 Games Better Than The Castles of Burgundy? It is number 11 on BGG, the list would write itself!
aka Tom Vasel's top ten abstract strategy games
It's his youtube channel .... he can like whatever he wants and title it whatever he wants ...
I have played many games of chess over the years and I have enjoyed it but after discovering my local designer board game shop I can honestly say if I never play another game of chess it would be to soon.
Odd choice of title: the "better than" series. This is bound to be misunderstood and agitate a lot of people of which the game put in the bad spotlight is their favorite. Especially Chess should probably have been left alone. It's also odd even more abstract games (like Yinsh, Dvonn, Kamisado, Tak, Glux) are then recommended.
The title could've just as well been: abstract games i like more then chess.
Big board strategy wargames could have been recommended and might have been more successful in overshadowing Chess. Also this seems to show that someone who does like a game, might be more suited to recommend a better game like it.
Liking a game more does not make the game better. There's probably more people who like Transformers: Dark of the Moon more than like Citizen Kane. That does not make TDotM a better movie. From an objective standpoint, chess is one of the greatest games of all time.
This is one of those cases where Tom is trying to squeeze a concept (alternatives to chess) into a brand ("games better than") that it doesn't really fit.
I would recommend Go (weiqi/baduk/igo).
Onitama is a quick (30-40 mins) and fun chess-like game. Highly recommend
Our Onitama games take like 10 or 15 minutes. We should think more....
I haven't watched this yet, but I'm so excited!
Tom seems to be saying that if you like Chess, you will like abstracts. However many of the abstracts are far from Chess. For example, Dvonn is almost purely a tactical game, while Chess is a mix of tactics and strategy. Of the ones he listed, only Onitama and The Duke are Chess-like, in my opinion. I would have added For The Crown and (if it was still in print) Navia Drapt.
I think Barca is a good chess-lite for kids. Approachable theme. No luck. And no pieces get removed from the board, so you can't really get "crushed."
I feel the gipf series is perfect as an alternative for people who like chess. They are strategically rich games that are also quicker to play, which is a nice bonus
The duke!!! Finally found its name! I played it once and totally love it! Been searching in google to no avail, came here on youtube and found it on the first vid!
I love this series, the aim of offering an alternative to games which casual board game players may play but aren't necessary good games is a great one. But every other game in this series isn't generally considered a good board game in its own right. Chess is the one traditional game that doesn't fit the bill. A lot of chess players are avid gamers, and if you can find a game that taps into that level of strategy & battle of will, will be interested. Personally I haven't seen it yet, I haven't played all of these but I'm willing to bet it's not them. Be honest Tom these simply aren't better games, you may enjoy them more but they are not better.
Btw I don't mean this as a slight, I'm sure I will probably enjoy these games & will check them out.
I think Scrabble is a good game too.
Though both "good game" and "better game" are rather subjective.
Better at what?
In this series it seems to mean "better at entertaining Tom".
Wow, just came across this list in 2021. Looking for other games than chess to challenge my chess loving 8 yr old son. Love it. Surprised that Khet aka Laser Chess didn't make the list.
10 games better than 40k. 🙏🏼
Confusion: Espionage and Deception in the Cold War is my favourite. Given the glowing review the Dice Tower gave it when it came out I'm surprised not to see it here.
That's why I take a baseball bat to a chess game ... the opponents don't dare to win (sic!)
So you go the Wookiee route of gameplay? 😁
Six Making ... for people who _almost_ like chess, but think it is a little long and boring. Six Making feels, at the same time, more simple yet more complex than chess. Think, chess on a smaller board, with nothing but pawns, BUT, you can move pawns into each other to build them up into the more powerful pieces... rook, knight, etc... if you build all the way up to a king, you win. Oh, and you can move and/or split any piece, not just your own. :O And it plays in half an hour. A truly amazing game. I'll never go back to chess.
Top 10 games that can scratch a chess itch in 20 minutes. There, maybe that will appease some of the chess enthusiasts in this comments section. :P
Nope. You can play chess in 20 minutes without problems. A common playstile is blitz games with 5 minutes per player.
I was obviously referring to playing chess and taking it seriously. Hell you could play go in 20 minutes if you don't think about your moves.
And where is the masterpiece Tash-Kalar?
I like stratego more than chess as your opponent's set up is not revealed. You have to probe for it, and even then, traps and misdirection.
You need 8 years to become a GM or IM in chess
Um dos poucos comentários respeitáveis que encontrei neste vídeo.
A vontade de comentar é enorme. Pois também fiquei indignado.
Mas primeiro vou jogar todos os 10 jogos da lista.
""10 Games That One Guy Likes Better Than Chess"
Indeed! I don't make any secret of that. But I have PLAYED all ten of these games. Have you?
@@thedicetower Yes.
Hive should be on this list also
Amen!
I find the music at the beginning to be annoying. The middle part without is much more watchable
Who got shot at 3:52?
This is a great list for people who are terrible at chess.
This is a really cool list. To the folks that say Tom is ragging on Chess, watch the video again. He literally says "Chess is a fine game," among other things in praise of it. I tend to really enjoy abstract strategy games in general and I can agree that Chess is truly a great game that has stood the test of time. But, like Tom, Chess is far from my PERSONAL favorite in what it does. Great list Tom! I am enjoying seeing more abstract strategy games featured on the Dice Tower. Please cover more Clemens Gerhards games! Those games deserve more love in the US, in my opinion.
Well, he should not have said 'BETTER THAN CHESS' He could have said as much fun as, ........just as challenging as............viable alternatives to.............. and why is he singling chess out? why not GO. Which, in my opionion is really the only one ,nteresting game that is on par with chess. It's simple, elegant, and deep , just like chess but different. Both are easy to play, but hard to master.
thank you for the information.
I was wondering if he would include Knightmare Chess. :-) That one is really fun.
Personally, you could have also called this amazing bang for your buck games. I have mined more value out of these less pricey games than any in my collection. Particularly Onitama but I also love Yinsh.
When I see the title z I thought he is Pakistani because Chess is an Indian game means originated in India and only Pakistanis hate it but when I see the name of the Channel 😅
3 games I would place into consideration would be: Thud!, 32 Dice and of course, Stratego.
Good list of abstracts, but it seems like more of a Top 10 Abstracts, rather than 10 games that have a similar feel to Chess but are more modern. Some omissions:
For the Crown - chess mixed with dominion
Stratego- or even better, Confusion...Cold War
Quoridor- really captures that back and forth feeling of chess
Skipped right over Knightmare Chess! Although in my experience hardcore chess players hate this game because it "isn't pure"....but people who know a little about the basics of chess LOVE this game!
I invented a board game is there someone who can help me
I love chess more than my life
I wouldn't go so far as to say these are _better_ than chess...
Interesting list, I expected Hive or Tzaar to make an appearance but surprised that it didn't make the list. But good recommendations for other strategy games
He did name two other games in the Gipf series - Dvonn and Yinsh - that he probably likes better than Tzaar, though.
I have a chess like game for 15 years now but i did not sell it yet. It has been made in digital format but very obscure to find and use. When I have more resources to make it i will if i ever. need to find proper people to make.
I would advise against trying to convince a chess champion or someone who loves chess to look for different games that "scratch that itch." I've tried many of the games on this list, but the results are the same. Chess enthusiasts just want chess. They like the simple board and complex ruleset. They love their game much like Tom loves Cosmic Encounter, or I love Pandemic. And most of these men and women are NOT the Elo rank touting snobs most people characterize chess players as. They just really like chess. End of story.
These games are for people who played chess once, and it didn't work for them.
Tom is not saying that these games are generally better than chess. He think these games are better than chess for him. He is not saying you will like this better than chess, he is saying if you enjoy chess you will likely enjoy these. If you love chess, are crazy about chess, and your job is chess-related, you are NOT looking for something else. This list is suggested for regular normal people that enjoy chess now and then.
I don't think anyone's under any illusion that after watching this video, Magnus Carlsen is about to lob his Chess set in the bin and start playing Loony Pyramids instead. Chess has a big advantage if you want to play seriously as it has a huge following and it's relatively easy to find players at many levels. However played casually, it has a number of flaws - it has the same set up every time, AP is common, games can end in draws, its ubiquity means that players are often at different ability levels and (at a casual level) it can feel a bit dull. All these games avoid those issues and are arguably a better choice for people who want an abstract two player game to play casually with a family member or friend.
The problem this list admittedly concedes from the onset is nothing does what chess does in an entire package. These games each do a different part or embrace a different aspect of chess fully. That, in turn, highlights not only why it cannot be replaced, but why trying to use any of these games to replace it is problematic. Most people who place chess, even at a casual level, want the entire pie, not just a slice.
You could make that point about any solid game..... even if it is a chess variant. There is nothing inherently special about chess... it is just one of many solid games that exist. For example, Onitama is a better game than chess, it is more elegant, imo ...if I play a game of chess it might sort of scratch that Onitama itch, but it could never replace it.
Played Chess for years, it was alright. Neuroshima Hex completely replaced it for me, among a handful of other abstracts. From a personal anecdote among my friend sample size, chess is for people unaware of other options out there.
got this as an add before the video, i laughed
Garry Kasparov Teaches Chess | Official Trailer
Anyone remember a game from the 70's called 'Isolation ' ?
No, but have you heard of the 2020 remake?
This needed to happen. As someone who has logged over 600 plays so far this year on chess.com, is ranked at a high intermediate level, and who does the Tactics puzzles every day... Chess needs to be dethroned. It is NOT a measure of your intelligence, it is NOT perfect (witness the, frankly, slimy cowardice that abounds and is *rewarded* in endgame play!), and its main claim to international fame is its age.Again, I adore chess and play it constantly. But, it needs to be dethroned in the popular consciousness and there could easily be better two-player abstracts out there, which people will ignorantly eschew in favor of the Almighty CHESS! Lol. Needs to change.
Chess is a complicated abstract strategy game on this present day requiring only two obvious concepts, prearrangement and memorization. You cannot improve if you used the same thinking if you already know. I'm applying my skills to the game implement and to real situations. I'm a game enthuziast and instructor and recommend the kind and genre of the game to my friends, trainees and students in school.
Here are my top 10 favorites better than chess :
1. Abalone
2. Hive
3. Othello
4. Domination
5. Santorini
6. Backgammon
7. Onitama
8. Pylos
9. Quoridor
10. Carcassonne
😂 ✌ ☕ 🍩 😁
Newer game to add to this list: Shobu
I am a huge board games fan (and by the way your channel is great!) but also a huge chess fan. For me, chess is quite simply a reliable way to know if the work I put in equals progress. Some people go into chess the wrong way (memorizing openings way too soon) and do not have a chance to see the beauty in it. Also, you can find someone to play at anytime with the internet, which is great. I am not a master (my ELO is 1300), I just like the game. I agree with others talking about Hive, great game and the carbon edition reminds me of chess. Last point : the picture you picked for the chess set was awful...
Nowadays I would add War Chest.
did you ever cover a game called Connect6? I love it. Sure would like a second opinion, though.
Cathedral is a quick fast one
Suggestion for your nexts video:
Review for chess unbound
How about Element? Love it
Is it just me or does yinch sound like othelo but with less pieces?
Oh well I though that Go would be on since it is my favourite board game.
Great list! Did Zee help you pick any of these?
I would like to see Zee's list on this topic
Khet and Hive would be two of my choices.
No mention of Go?
Where was go ?
great video
I appreciate these lists, there were already a couple on this list that I'd heard Tom talk about that looked interesting. Although I think for some people that like chess but don't necessarily need the game to be abstract, there may be appeal in some of the Euro games that start symmetrically.
Surprised to not see Hive! on the list
Lol.i just watched the entire video in 20 secs.
No mention of "Go"? Cult of the new!
Chess is a wonderful game, that I was, by familial tradition, taught by the age of five. That said, and although I think it's the current Queen of Board Games, there are many other stimulating and fun games out there. C.f. Bridge. Players have gotten to the point that any socializing whilst playing is considered to be signaling. It's no long a past-time, but rather a rigid sport, that you might as well play over, or against, a computer. Hence, most of the card games I play are centuries old; before that, dice games, race games, and sorting/feeding games. Most ancient, are human variations on bob-stones.
And this is why I like ABGs, like Quarto, Tak, etc... It's like playing 17th and 18th c. card games, but in a 21st century parlor.
*falls of soapbox*
Hive is better than all of those games...
Maybe not Onitama...
Arguable by Hive is definitely a conspicuous absence
I like Hive, though personally I'm a fan of the Duke, it does have a randomness aspect, but the flipping after you move has lead to more interesting games. Haven't tried Onitama yet.
Does Samurai use the tactics of Sun Tzu ?
He didn't even mention go or shogi owo
Also Arimaa
Tom... have you done a review on TAK? I am impressed with Onitama, and its expansion... the Duke sounds fascinating. Just bought Samurai a month ago.
Jim Smith Yes Tom did a review of Tak. It was a Miami Dice episode actually.