David Brooks on how the elite broke America
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- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2025
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Who broke America? Quite likely, you did. David Brooks, my guest today, describes how the new elite, the "bobos" as he once labelled them (bourgeois bohemians) have created a hereditary meritocracy, failed the leadership test, condescended to the less successful, and actively contributed to inequality and segregation. We talk about what class means today, why David now thinks economics is more important than he did, his advice for both the Democrats and the Republicans, the culture wars, and much more. We end with a discussion of his work on a new book on the importance of social recognition, of being seen.
David Brooks
David Brooks is a prominent social and cultural commentator writing regularly for the New York Times and the Atlantic, and previously for the Wall Street Journal. He also appears on “PBS NewsHour,” NPR’s “All Things Considered” and NBC’s “Meet the Press” to discuss politics and culture. Brooks teaches at Yale University and belongs to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences.
More Brooks
Read his Atlantic piece, How the Bobos Broke America, building off his 2001 book, Bobos In Paradise: The New Upper Class and How They Got There
His previous books include The Social Animal, The Road to Character, and The Second Mountain.
For more, check out his column at the New York Times and his column at the Atlantic
You can follow more of his work on twitter: @nytdavidbrooks
Also Mentioned
We chatted about my book, Dream Hoarders.
We mentioned several scholars who work on social and/or economic inequality, including:Robert Putnam, specifically referring to his work on extracurricular activities.
Raj Chetty and how geography plays a role in mobility.
Sean Reardon, specifically his point that racial diversity is more common than class diversity.
Richard Fording and his work on occupational segregation.
We also mentioned Jonathan Rauch and his work on the cognitive regime - which you can learn more about in this episode of my podcast.
Brooks mentioned the book “Privilege: The Making of an Adolescent Elite at St. Paul's School” written by Shamus Rahman Khan.
We discussed Brooks’ infamous deli meat anecdote in his 2017 piece “How We Are Ruining America”
Brooks referred to the work of Pierre Bourdieu, a French sociologist who studied power dynamics and the importance of cultural capital, linguistic capital, symbolic capital, and more.
I mentioned Michelle Margolis’ research on religion and politics, which you can learn more about in her book “From Politics to the Pews.”
I also referred to the book “The Sum of Small Things: A Theory of the Aspirational Class”, written by Elizabeth Currid-Halkett.
Brooks mentioned Ibram Kendi.
Brooks referred to this scene in Good Will Hunting (specifically starting at minute 3:06)
I mentioned Michael Young’s pivotal book “The Rise of the Meritocracy,” which I’ve spoken about previously here.
My previous work on respect, including this Brookings essay, has focused heavily on the importance of eye contact as an assertion of civic and moral equality.
I cited Thomas Jefferson’s original draft of the Declaration of Independence, in which he wrote “we hold these truths to be sacred.”
The Dialogues Team
Creator: Richard Reeves
Research: Ashleigh Maciolek
Artwork: George Vaughan Thomas
Tech Support: Cameron Hauver-Reeves
Music: "Remember" by Bencoolen (thanks for the permission, guys!)
Glad to hear that you gentlemen are good friends. In connection to area of Living in .
Great dialogue, Richard and David. I have followed (and have deep respect and admiration for) David Brooks for many years now. My parents as well. I took many notes.
Excellent interview/conversation!! I always appreciate David’s humanity… Thank you.
Thank you for a good conversation. I found the first 2/3 really interesting, but it was the latter third where you went more philosophical, about human empathy, connection and love that really hit me. I wrote down some quotes to take with me.
Finally. The last ten minutes neared the necessary connections for revealing healing.
This is a very interesting and insightful interview. I liked how David discussed actors and how they approach a character -- finding an overlap between themselves and the character, or taking on a physical manifestation of the character that allows them to feel how it is to be in another character's body. I've met many counselors who have been actors, and there is obvious overlap between the two professions as to the skill set that is required.
I notice that a lot of the people who fit this category are more familiar with the Syrian refugee crisis or the Haitian earthquake or the status of women under the Taliban than they are with people living in a trailer 2 miles away from where they live or people shot down in the street 2 miles from where they work.
I giggled when you talked about the carrot thing!! Were the carrots organically grown in happy soil? Are the table cloths hypo-allergenic? Is the furniture arranged by feng shui? To hell with the truck driver who brought the box of carrots to the wholesaler or the cook making $10 an hour candying them in the kitchen.
I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood, was the first child and second grandchild to graduate from a state college. I now live in a blue collar urban neighborhood for a bunch of reasons but I attend a church populated half by highly educated boomers and half by bobos. It feels weird. yes.
Bingo!
Thanks! It's a big part of one of our existential challenges. Especially because the mass media wants it that way. After all, they are part of Big Biz in our Corporate State.
Brook's understanding develops slowly like a fine wine. Ten years more and he'll be drinkable!
Good observation. If it develops further ... and maybe in five.
here in a rural county in northern california we have been invaded by .. the wendys .. the wealthy trendy .. who now clutter the roads with mercedes and porsch suv's .. drive like maniacs .. and have driven the price of everything up up up so that now it's almost impossible to buy local or attend an event .. forget about buying a home .. what once felt like a small town community is now a dim memory .. and am sure that too many other places are or have faced the same sad fate ..
Also immigrants are here in unprecedented numbers, much more than the Irish, or Estern European countries of previous centuries. This matters because the elites have no connection to them linguistically, culturally or politically.
However the Immigrants work , Pay Taxes , shop for groceries and clothing , pay rent , take jobs that you don't want , etc . ... They are here for the opportunity to take care of their family's ... Just like You and I .
Very smart, very well read, very travel David Brooks talks and talks and never mentions the libertarian billionaires who have been guiding tax and spending policies on the Right since Kirk. I don't get it.
Thank you for this conversation.
Do people experience anxiety whenever they do not feel a sense of ‘ease’ within a particular group? It seems to me that Humans can only exist in relation to each other. However, I understood from this video that Western society has developed abusive, harmful, and dehumanising strategies to achieve group belonging, and at any cost to others when needed. Surely we can learn from ancient Aboriginal cultures that were based on inclusion, connection to each other and maintaining the earth so it is sustainable for all.
Compared to what exactly? Admittedly, I'm not an expert in Western society even, let alone others around the world but seems to me many other cultures and societies are similar or worse when it comes to beating people into shape and expecting individual to stick to the given norms.
Yeah David's really changed I mean considering that all of my life I watched him cheer these elites on defend Wall Street and its Outsourcing defend the wars
Nixon took the U.S. off the gold stand, August 15, 1971. He started price and wage control with china and to top it off, he enacted the war on drugs.
I blame Americans! They continue to vote for a two party corporatized plutocracy that not only shipped all the jobs away, but also civil liberties and circumvented the constitution and the Bill of rights
for over 50 years! ~The government you elect is the government you deserve. ~Thomas Jefferson
Thanks! Maybe it's a Corporatized Oligarchy, or an Oligarchy Democracy, or a Corporate State?
So, you want communism instead??? Go look at North Korea or China to see how horrible life is when leftists run everything off the cliff.
It's amazing how Brookes continues to be wrong about everything yet makes declarations with so much confidence. I have to hand it to him. He finds creative ways to be wrong.
Can you be more specific in your criticism? I can't claim to know that much about David Brooks, but he does appear to acknowledge, at least in this interview, when he's been wrong. Is there anyone who hasn't been wrong before? Do you agree with David's assessments about society, culture, and politics?
I wish you would tell us a couple. Your Brookes is spelled Brooks.
@Marianne Ward nothing arrogant about it. I wasn't making a comment about myself. He is a public figure with years of commentary and predictions which can be compared to actual events. He is clueless about his own party as seen by his repeated surprised attitude regarding Trump's candidacy, nomination, election, and governance.
David Brooks and Richard V Reeves are developing common ground in connection to writing books which is priceless and wonderful.
Common ground is not a common occurrence. However that is not true with these gentlemen.
Ask Brooks about the Bilderberg global power operation or Bohemian Grove black magic. Ahem. HAHAHA. He is one of them all.
Much Good here in Insights and Opinion, but econ still trumps culture, and culture is lavishly used to stall efforts at redressing inequality, which in many years has been rising exponentially ... When New York City had a bunch of free commuter colleges, beginning in the 1850s and ending in the early seventies. Poor, working class and some middle class students in hundreds of thousands received free excellent educations. I was one of the poor among those who became engineers, college professors,etc. I became a professor, co-authored an important book and worked in eight countries. At 84, tomorrow, I've been running a nonprofit I created 17 years ago. All of us have been its volunteers since the get-go...
My Alma Mater, City College, was dubbed the Proletarian Harvard. Another, the Cooper Union, was a college for Engineering and Art, beginning in the 1850s! Who knew such a jump in thinking so boldly was a huge leap in what wold be considered cool "innovation" today. Lincoln was President. The Cooper Union is now trying to recapture it's free tuition status. It was the last to lose it about a decade ago. The only one of the free colleges that stayed free in the City after the early seventies.
Were America's values different until the early seventies when it was perhaps greater than today?
No. Much of the issues you mention here were a direct or indirect result of Reagan’s policies.
@@TPaine76 The Vietnam war and LIBERAL policies which destroyed marriages and handed out 'welfare money' for votes plus 'school bus integration' which destroyed neighborhood schools lead to our cities being abandoned by the working middle class who fled to the outer suburbs. We now have many 'dead cities' that are dangerous places to even visit, much less, live in.
Schools in these cities teach nothing but how to be a criminal. These cities vote 100% DEMOCRAT. And Reagan had nothing to do with all this, it was set in cement by LBJ and then run into the ground by the entire DNC.
David Brooks has an almost child-like faith in educational institutions. But, has he read the course requirements at any colleges these days? To "promote retention" the schools have watered down the classes to make them all but impossible to fail. The students thus learn almost nothing. Worthless classes don't require real academics to teach them, so colleges are full of slave adjuncts, but the Deputy Assistant Vice-Provost of Academic Success is very well-paid. The worthless university where I did my law degree has become a full-blown Degree Mill. Instead of Foreign Language requirements, they now have a "Global Cultures" requirement, which could be satisfied by courses like "Men, Masculinity, and Movies." That's really promoting those critical thinking skills....
Not so bad, some are good, Mr. Seneca. Others, next to worthless, you think?
@@ronkrate609 Quemadmodum omnium rerum, sic litterarum quoque intemperantia laboramus; non vitae, sed scholae, discimus.
The US certainly needs some class consciousness i would say. I think ill pass on it being to the level of the UK though.
Richard V. Reeves
He speaks of himself.
While I think its noble to strive for an egalitarian society, I often wonder if there has ever been a society free of class distinctions or, more generally, free of hierarchal distinction between its members. It seems to me we're striving (virtuously) for a societal structure that has never existed in the history of human societies. Before some one gets the impression that I'm painting a completely bleak picture, consider that there was once a time before society arranged itself in a democratic republic. Currently there are many democratic republics around the world. So its not impossible to bring about radical change. I just think people who believe we need a few tweaks on our current society before we transform to an egalitarian wonderland are delusional.
You only say that because you think you are somehow inherently better than someone else.
@@shazamshazamshazam696 Elaborate. I don't see how you're able to conclusively determine my self valuation with respect to others based on anything I have said.
@@shazamshazamshazam696 My guess is, you have the hubris to think you know how to bring about a completely egalitarian society.
@@darylallen2485 lol, no but I do know enough to know history is more complex than the winners of any moment want the mob to believe.
@@shazamshazamshazam696 I see. Lets say I did think I was better than someone else. What's it to you?
Is it not possible that this is already a look in the rear view mirror? Once your family and its money distinguished your class. Then educational credentials better distinguished your class. Going forward, education and outcomes will become further decoupled and something more like technical and entrepreneurial achievement will distinguish your class.
Bo-bos... Is this a reference to our more free-loving, egalitarian primate cousins Bonobos?
Professionals espousing bohemian, or "cool" or some working class values while leading bourgeois lives.
They would all be fine with the India caste system for the whole globe then like India for thousands of years there will be no progress, only stagnation and chaos.. But the elite will have lots of servants and everyone else will be in a state of constant insecurity and insufficiency of necessities.
True, so maybe they will be serfs, some kind of serf-like servants?
Just saw you David Brooks msnbs. Yup you are no conservative .
Thank God for that!
He identifies himself as a conservative. Many others appear to characterize him as a conservative. What is David's and others' who characterize him as a 'conservative' definition of 'conservative' and what is your definition of 'conservative' and how do they differ?
Maybe he's trying to become half and half.