Hey, heroes! I'm streaming on Twitch again this weekend! On Saturday I'll be trying to finish Castlevania: Rondo of Blood while on Sunday I'm continuing Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness. www.twitch.tv/merrymarvelite
Wanted to thank you for your content. Been playing Marvel Strike Force for a while and as I've never read any comic, many of it's characters were unknown to me until I found your channel. Keep up the good work!
I think that because Marvel execs know the culture behind comics involves respecting continuity, they feel like all these changes HAVE to be accepted. But for those of us that loved and accepted Magneto being their father all of these literal decades before the MCU, we don’t care lol. Especially since the root of all this is money and movie rights.
@Kevin Davidson Is it wrong if part of me wants more stuff like Marvel to enter the public domain? At least then, everyone's own canon can be equally valid.
well i thing they did that so that it matches their origins in the mcu in the movies wanda and pietro( the onefrom avengers movie) weren't mutants because marvel doesn't has the mutants right yet so they made them a result of hydra experiments
I recognize Marvel executives has made a retcon, but given that it's a stupid-ass retcon, I've elected to ignore it... Therefore I continue to consider the twins mutants and Magneto their father.
I was literally just thinking about this. Magneto, a man who is an expert in genetics, wouldn't believe that Wanda and Pietro were his children without doing a simple blood test. Not to mention the fact that Pietro looks exactly like Magneto! I think that when Wanda's personality was inverted during the Axis event, she subconsciously rewrote reality to make it seem like Magneto wasn't her father.
Considering the Maximoffs connections to both the Inhumans and the Antman family Marvel is content with having them being the most convoluted family in comics.
@@ninjaconsultantsixshot Yes, i know, but that's too simple and obvious: look at my response to the first one that replied me, Hank Pym had a part in Vision's creation... If i didn't know a thing, simply saying Wanda is married to Vision explains nothing.
At least Magneto adopted them even after them not being his kids, Wanda does call Polaris her sister. I still think they're his children despite the retcons.
Another aspect to all of this is how retcons hurt the stories that built upon previous continuity. The House of M event hits rather different when you know titular house is not really blood related, and poses the question - if Quicksilver's not a mutant, how did he lose his powers after M-Day? Did Wanda cast a separate spell just for him? But, let's say that tomorrow this retcon gets undone - Natalya's murderer turns out to be Magneto and High Evolutionary is revealed to having enhanced the pre-existing genetic material, thus making children mutants again. Well now we would have to fix stories from 2015 and beyond, written with new origin in mind! Terrigen is now established to be lethal for mutants, yet in Son of M it didn't really harm Quicksilver - if he isn't a mutant, that makes sense, but if he is, what saved him? And what about Luna, is she mutant/Inhuman hybrid or not?
House of M was before the first Iron Man movie, before the MCU was established, before they jumbled up continuities trying to sweep their own licensed characters from under Fox's control... At the time of House of M they were all still mutants.
@@alessandrobaggi6129 That's the thing. No, they weren't. Retcons are *retroactive* continuity, which means that they are not only true for what is now, but also for everything which came before, regardless of authorial intent at the time. That's why they should make sense in connection with these older stories. This is an example of those stories NOT making sense due to retcon. If Quicksilver is not a mutant, he shouldn't be affected by No More Mutants spell. Interestingly there's also an opposite situation with Onslaught event, where Wanda jumped alongside other heroes to absorb his essence. Mutants were not allowed to do so, because that would empower Onslaught. Originally this was excused by Wanda's probability manipulation powers, which made her mathematically not a mutant. Well now we don't need that mental flex anymore, cause Wanda is not a mutant. Plain and simple!
@@ptcarbonproductions2013 Yeah that was my biggest problem with Hydra Cap. They said all the stories still happened he was just a hydra agent the whole time. Which made 0 sense. if he was a hydra agent why did he fight so hard and really screw up hydra so much? i just don't think continuity matters to modern writers because as i've seen it explained, "it gets in the way of what i want to do".
@@Lazrael32it was Hydra caps fake memories made by Kobic, not what really happened. The same thing happened to the scientist that was part of pleasant hill. It was confirmed by red skull. That's why none of the other Hydra agents remember him as a one of them. He and the real Captain America have a conversation about it after secret empire.
I think that scarlet witch and her brother aren’t mutants but affected by experiments by High evolutionary but are still magnetos kids the reality warping makes sense if she could wipe out 90% of the mutant population im sure she could subconsciously affect her blood relation to her father plus mutants can have human children
Great video. Between this, the prehistoric Avengers and Krakoa- it's woefully apparent that modern Marvel have no grasp of continuity whatsoever. They desperately need a Roy Thomas or Mark Grunewald type in editorial.
When you take into account all of the alternate timeline and What-If stories where the twins are still related to Magneto and still Mutants, makes this one especially ridiculous.
Listen, there are retcons I respect, they don't even need to make all that much sense, as long as they are better than what they replaced. This is not one of those times. Very happy to be scroll through this comment section and see that most agree with me
Part of me wants to see what would happen if the Silver Age Scarlet Witch and Spider-Man's Black Cat were in the same room - would their bad-luck powers cancel each other out? If so, that might be the best time ever to buy a lottery ticket...
And what happens if Domino gets thrown in the mix Honestly surprised we haven't gotten a St. Patricks day special about the luck based characters before
That’s what I like about this channel it’s takes ultra confusing plots like this and lays them out so they’re easier to understand In my opinion though they could still do some kind of Re-retcon that still makes the twins magnetos children.....just not with his wife !
I believe all of the previous continuity can be maintained with a very mild retcon. The twins’ newest history is that their mother was a Romani witch named Natalya Maximoff, and their father is unnamed. Now imagine that Natalya is also the Romani wife of Magneto, using the name Magda, looking to "retire" from the adventurous life that had been consuming her existence. When the house fire traps their daughter Anya, and Magnus unleashes his fury on the villagers, she flees, because this is exactly what she did not want. "Magda" goes to Wundagore, which Natalya is familiar with, and gives birth, before abandoning the twins, and fleeing again. Chthon made contact with Wanda due to the hereditary potential of the Scarlet Witch. This leaves so much story potential. Did "Magda" really die in the blizzard? Did Anya really die in the house fire? The High Evolutionary's claim of experimenting on them could be factual as well. His failure wasn't in giving them their abilities, but in ruining their development of those abilities, which is why the creation Luminous is more powerful than both twins. This would be in between attempting to give the twins to Robert Frank, and giving them to Django and Marya Maximoff, who were potentially their aunt and uncle, which would add credence to them naming their daughter Ana, and "Magda" naming her daughter Anya, and Django's talent for animating the dolls he made, making it his magic, and not inherent in the wood. After House of M, Magneto, Quicksilver, and the Scarlet Witch appeared to be part of the group who had their X-Gene removed, but in reality, all Wanda did was suppress it. When Magneto and Quicksilver both attempted to regain their abilities, all they really did was unlock what was still there. Pietro's "new" abilities he gained from the exposure to the Terrigen crystals, were actually part of his original abilities before the High Evolutionary's tampering. This also leaves an opening to explore how Wanda's abilities would have progressed without his influence. The blood spell she cast in Axis didn't visibly affect her either. If you read how she worded the spell, it does not distinguish to exclude herself from the curse. My opinion is that Pietro bore the brunt of the changes the High Evolutionary made, and it made him more susceptible to her spell, which is why only he was visibly affected, but due to their tampered genes, actually affected them both, and had the side effect of hiding the X-Gene, like the original House of M spell, but allowing them to still access the abilities. This is a whole lot of fan theory, but it is also the easiest solution to the twins convoluted past, and bring opportunity for a wealth of future stories.
This makes sense, except for Terrigen now being harmful to mutants but I guess Pietro wasn't technically a mutant at the time he was trying to regain his powers. Best thing they could do is just say "Natalia Maximoff" is lying and is actually Cthon or something, and his powers made High Evolutionary believe his lies too. Why he would do that I don't know, perhaps he has plans for not just the twins but Magneto too?
I grew up in the 70s and 80s. My belief is that Wanda and Pietro are Magnetos children. The MCU’s can make this true once the multi-verse phase is complete in the X-Men are now a part of the MCU in their next big 3 to 4 part projects that would take us from 2026 to 2036. I believe the majority of the fan base believes Magneto is there Father. Magneto has had a complicated relationship with the women that he has loved while being on the run from the government. There are parts of him that just wants to live in peace and away from 26:53 . Like in the X-Men movie Apocalypse. He had a child in that movie that subsequentially died along with his wife, that was a homosapien. Along with Quicksilver mother, talking about a guy he dated that was fascinated with metal. Quicksilver‘s mother knew he was a mutant. The MCU just has to find a way to tie all this together. I wouldn’t be mad if they brought in the High Evolutionary to be part of how their powers came to be.
I hate the type of retcons these characters go through that dramatically affect their backstory, and for no reason too. I don’t mind changes to characters that can revert if not as popular, but this retconning was an absolute mess.
Unfortunately the times that comic authors cared about Continuity are long since gone. This was almost definitely an editorial decision. But many stories don't fit their own continuity anymore. I still love the story of magneto being the father. It allows for more conflicted moral stories. But that's just me.
Hahaha! Obviously you're too young to remember Bob Haney! Old Bob made "Wonder Girl" a key member of the Teen Titans because she appeared in stories of Wonder Woman....Apparently unaware those were IMAGINARY stories. When this was pointed out to him, he pretty much shrugged. And of course, there are the Super Sons, stories of Batman and Superman's teenage sons published in the Seventies....l
@Supremmo could have been indeed. When I was still reading comics (I stopped in 1990) it had been "established " that Wonder Girl was Donna Troy, an ordinary woman given powers by the Amazons (to save her life? I forget!). HOWEVER it's my understanding THAT origin was changed. Possibly more than once. Trying to bringing in Debra Winger's portrayal from a 1976 TV series is...interesting.
The most recent retcon with Natalya being their mother actually still leaves the door open for Magneto to be their dad. But if he is, that means he murdered Natalya, and that doesn’t sound like him.
They need to simplify their origin story. Magda running off and having Magneto’s twins a compelling enough origin for them. Nothing additional is needed there
The right way to tie everything together: -Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are Magda and Magneto’s children. Period. -Their x-genes were initially inert much like that of Grayden Creed, but were activated by the High Evolutionary. -Magda went to the High Evolutionary of her own free will. -Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were born on the night of Cthon’s attack.
Those John Byrne Avengers issues with Magda and Wundagore strike an acute nostalgic nerve in me... I had'nt been keeping up with comics for a little while, I was over my friend Jonathan's house, and he had these issues. Everything about it captivated me; Wundagore Mountain (such a cool name), Wanda & Pietro being Magneto's kids, Bova and the High Evolutionary...it was all so enthralling to my young mind! I read them over and over every time I went over his house...
I love/hate this video. I love that you did one on these characters but hate how Marvel reconned the twins from being mutants; it just doesn't make any sense! "Executive meddling" is a good way to put it.
The easiest fixes for this are probably: 1) Make it so the Magneto Wanda cast the family spell on was an imposter/shapeshifter. 2) Make it so that when Magneto was de-aged and re-aged his DNA was changed while simultaneously because of the High Evolutionary's meddling the twin's DNA was changed making them appear unrelated. 3) Magneto had some kind of trinket/artifact/gift on his person which he didn't know was actually guarding him against magic. (A quick flashback where Wanda gives Magneto a small token or something for his birthday and years later he has that in his pocket when the family spell is cast and it deflects the magic.) Any of those would still allow Magneto to be the one who killed Natalya. Also... Natalya could also be an alias of Magda. With Magneto having indirectly killed her.
I was under the impression this was more "Real World Politics" where as The mutants were with Sony and Marvel Films didn't want the association (at the time) therefore they focused on the Inhumans and recon The Twins backstory. So I feel they should set this back since this is a bunch of executive's doing powerplays.
Nice one. Must needed. I’d like to see you do a retcon deep exploration vids on everyone. I know you’ve mentioned them in a lot of your videos already. And I can’t imagine the amount of work it would take on top of the work you already put into your vids. Would be appreciated nonetheless. Time to be a patreon member. 👍
I don't care what anybody says. The twi s are Magnetos kids, they just want to change it now because of the movies that came out with inaccurate information about the chars
Maybe it could be revealed that Agatha Harkness is somehow involved with the deception of the twins not being Magneto's children. She is coming back this summer as an adversary of Wanda. Also she was a supporting character in The first Scarlet Witch series that revealed her supposed mother. Just a thought.
I really just want a good QuikSilver on screen in Marvel. I know it seems regressive, but I'd love to get lower budget feature length films that are more solo character studies instead of the grand connective projects we are hit with over and over at this point. gotg3 was awesome and I feel like it's because of how isolated the story was and true to phase 1 and 2 it remained, but it seems like every phase is going to be plagued with problems that force marvel to cobble together what they can with what they have a the time (pandemic, writers strike, scandals and cancelations).
Bonjour from France 🇫🇷 ! Really love your works and also the love that you share for the Media. Thx you a lot for this top quality of videos and insight on all this subjects. See you soon...EXCELSIOR !
I have been waiting for you to someday cover the convoluted parentage of Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch. You didn't let me down. Plus a little bonus content on what a retcon is and a notable Captain America retcon too. I really like it when you do videos on comic book terms and concepts. Put me down as a yes for that video on Spider-Man's "Sins Past" story. I'm leading the charge to get a video on BATTLESTAR for the 4th of July. As always MAKE MINE THE MERRY MARVELITE!!!!
I hate it so much. They SOMEHOW had all the nonsense wrapped up with a nice little bow with the Magneto version, and *then they poked it again.* It it so hard for a story to escape retcon soup. This one did it, then went back.
The new retcon should be that it’s been Wanda the whole time messing with reality and memories or hers and her brothers, unknowingly, and just give them an official background story that sticks
Frankly, I thought having them the children of Whizzer and Miss America made the most sense. The constant need to retcon was one of the things that drove me away from reading comics.
The only thing is if the Whizzer and Miss America were still officially the parents of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver they would've had to have been pretty old to be the parents of Wanda and Pietro. In the 70's it worked, but not now. Still, The Whizzer has always been one of my favorite heroes to this day. I do wish Miss America hadn't died during childbirth. She and Robert Frank deserved better.
They weren't ever really very popular characters. Her powers were always kinda random and didn't make sense. Quicksilver rarely showed up and came off as mostly kind of unlikable, his powers were literally just running fast.
I love your channel. I would like to ask tho if you, or anyone else, knows of a channel who is the equivalent of you but for DC Comics? As I am a fan of both.
I think most fans are still going to stick with the Magneto origin not the retcon This is almost as bad as their Ultimate Marvel origin 😭 The 2014/15 retcon is honestly as unnecessary as what they did to Nightcrawler’s origin 😢
And to this day Axis events remain completely rejected. One of those cases where the fans picked and are right kinda how the joker does have has an origin and name. Its the acid vat fall and Jack Naiper
OMG!!! My head hurts! This is one of the things which frustrates me. Marvel needs to establish a solid history and leaves it alone. New writers trying to shock and shake up continuity, blah.
A minor point, in that everyone is talking about the Maximoff twins.... The Captain America saga had another coda. Remember, Timely Comics produced CA stories from 1946 -49, when continuity says he was floating in the Arctic Ocean. Those could be ignored, but Roy Thomas did a story in What If stating the Cap in the All Winners Squad series from 1946 was IMPERSONATING Cap. Even though it's from "What If" I think it's meant to be canon.
There’s been six or seven characters that became ‘Captain America” and a few that were “Bucky” while Steve was chillin’ in the Arctic if I remember correctly, most, but not all are dead now.
@@ajclements4627 "six or seven?" I just remember the two. But I stopped reading comics (for reasons not worth going into) in 1990. A lot has been published since.
@@brianthomas2434 Apparently I didn’t remember the number correctly lol. The revival of the character in the mid-1950s was short-lived, and events during that time period are later retconned to show that multiple people operated using the code name to explain the changes in the character. These post World War II successors are listed as William Naslund and Jeffrey Mace. They are assisted by Fred Davis continuing the role of Bucky. The last of these other official Captains, William Burnside, was a history graduate enamored with the Captain America mythos, having his appearance surgically altered to resemble Rogers and legally changing his name to "Steve Rogers", becoming the new "1950s Captain America". He administered to himself and his pupil James "Jack" Monroe a flawed, incomplete copy of the Super-Serum, which made no mention about the necessary Vita-Ray portion of the treatment. As a result, while Burnside and Monroe became the new Captain America and Bucky, they became violently paranoid, often raving about innocent people being communist sympathizers during the height of the Red Scare of the 1950s. Their insanity forced the U.S. government to place them in indefinite cryogenic storage until they could be cured of their mental illness. Monroe would later be cured and assume the Nomad identity. And then there was the 2017 "Secret Empire" storyline with Hydra Cap. (Not a good look for the character.)
So pre-AXIS, while their origin was indeed somewhat convoluted, it still made sense. Yeah, I more accept that Magneto is Wanda and Pietro’s biological father. I’m fine with their post-AXIS origin as long as it lines up only with their MCU version as it makes sense in the context of that.
1. The Avengers The Yesterday Quest 2. The Avengers Nights of Wundergore 3. Vision and The Scarlet Witch vol one and two series 4. Scarlet Witch 2015 and 2017 series My Favorite Best storylines of the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver Origins ever
To me everything after 2014 is bullshit that they made up so they could use the characters in cinema, wanda and pietro are still magneto's kids and still mutants
Can you do history of the Beyonder, Crossfire, Living Laser, Iron Monger, Titanium Man, Crimson Dynamo, Whiplash, Ultimo, Darkhawk, Union Jack, Annihilus, the Badoon and the Broods?
"Why are you upset they retconned them to not be Magneto's kids, that wasn't canon until..." *Because we already know who their parents are. It took 20 years, but we did it. It's DONE.*
Can you do origin of the Grim Reaper, Quicksilver, Devondra, Sentry, Mr Immortal, Captain Universe, Dreadknight, Deathcry, Blizzard, Starhawk, Flerken, Whirlwind, Chemistro, Whiplash, Ronan the Accuser, Ego the Living Planet, the Living Tribunal and Super_Skrull along with Avenger-X and the Protector?
Can you do history of the U-Foes, the Ultimates team, Starjammers, Alpha Flight, the Annihilators, the Invaders, the Squadron Supreme, Doom Maidens, the Midnight_Sons, Young Avengers, Dark Avengers, Masters of Evil, the Thunderbolts and the Champions?
How long till you finish doing White Tiger: legacy of the Tiger by doing the history of Ava Ayala White Tiger? Can you do the history of Intelligencia in honour of the She-Hulk Disney Plus show?
One small point I think you missed... there was an early issue where Pietro mentions "the puppets our father used to make." This led the writers to introduce Django Maximoff to try to explain that comment. During the Magneto era, wouldn't Polaris have also been their sister? Or was she retconned as not being Magneto's daughter? I don't remember much about her in all of this.
Can you do origin of the Brood, the Gladiator, Hyperion, Star-Splendor, Havok, Vulcan, Jackal, Stingray, Quasar, Squirrel_Girl, Ultimus, Kly'bn, Kitty Pryde, Yotat, Dr.Faustus, Annihilus and Tryco Slatterus the Champion of the Universe?
It's when a geneticist starts wearing armor that one really needs to gtfo of there. You see an armored geneticist, you wrap up your mountain hike early.
Well at that time, Fox was still it's own company before being bought out by Marvel and therefore did not have the film rights to the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. Hence why Feige made those changes cause he could not call them mutants cause Fox had the rights to the term. And as for Sony's first Spiderman played by Tobey Maguire, his Peter Parker was given organic webbing (not because of what Marvel Comics did to the character) but because Avi Arad and Amy Pascal thought it would be stupid and illogical for a financially struggling college student making a living (barely) as a a freelance newspaper photographer for the Daily Bugle to be able make these web shooters and web fluid so those two just gave their Peter Parker the power of organic spinnerets in his arms. It was just pure coincidence that both parties gave their Peter Parkers similar abilities.
Yeah....... A lot of problems establishing parentage of some of the characters...... And that's excluding characters like Hope Summers.... Who was technically born to two baseline humans although as I recall the mother died in childbirth and the father was unfortunately killed not terribly long after. But because she was the first mutant birth in quite some time and she wound up being raised by cable.... Her actual parentage and family history is almost completely ignored.
Hey, heroes! I'm streaming on Twitch again this weekend! On Saturday I'll be trying to finish Castlevania: Rondo of Blood while on Sunday I'm continuing Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness.
www.twitch.tv/merrymarvelite
QUASAR!!!!
When are you going to do Quasar?
Wanted to thank you for your content. Been playing Marvel Strike Force for a while and as I've never read any comic, many of it's characters were unknown to me until I found your channel. Keep up the good work!
It is so stupid how marvel keeps changing the twins backstories. Might as well just keep it mysterious like the Joker’s backstory history is.
Listen… We all need to collectively agree that the Twins are Magneto & Magda’s kids and leave it at that.
I think that because Marvel execs know the culture behind comics involves respecting continuity, they feel like all these changes HAVE to be accepted. But for those of us that loved and accepted Magneto being their father all of these literal decades before the MCU, we don’t care lol. Especially since the root of all this is money and movie rights.
We all basically do.
@Kevin Davidson
Is it wrong if part of me wants more stuff like Marvel to enter the public domain? At least then, everyone's own canon can be equally valid.
well i thing they did that so that it matches their origins in the mcu in the movies wanda and pietro( the onefrom avengers movie) weren't mutants because marvel doesn't has the mutants right yet so they made them a result of hydra experiments
@@medrayenbenromdhane6013 Now we have variants so… They’re Magneto’s kids. 😂
I recognize Marvel executives has made a retcon, but given that it's a stupid-ass retcon, I've elected to ignore it... Therefore I continue to consider the twins mutants and Magneto their father.
Well said
I believe they’re still Magneto’s kids. Wanda just subconsciously used her reality warping powers to change that.
Agreed, but in the end Wanda's instability+powers could be used to explain everything... and that's a bit lazy.
@@alessandrobaggi6129 Yep. which is why they've chosen it SO much since bendis wrote her.
@@alessandrobaggi6129 It is but in this case it would be a plausible reason that would make sense.
It's my headcannon that it is because them not being magneto's children can only make sense after the house of m stuff
That's what I said cause she always has beef with her Dad. C'mon Pietro even looks like Mags.
I was literally just thinking about this. Magneto, a man who is an expert in genetics, wouldn't believe that Wanda and Pietro were his children without doing a simple blood test. Not to mention the fact that Pietro looks exactly like Magneto! I think that when Wanda's personality was inverted during the Axis event, she subconsciously rewrote reality to make it seem like Magneto wasn't her father.
I HATE this retcon. Having Magneto as their dad worked.
Considering the Maximoffs connections to both the Inhumans and the Antman family Marvel is content with having them being the most convoluted family in comics.
Connected to the Pyms? 🤔
How, if i may ask?
@@alessandrobaggi6129 vision
@@mcpics4448
You're right, i forgot to consider Hank's role.
About Vision, i usually view P. Horton as a "father" and Wonder Man as a "brother".
@@alessandrobaggi6129 Wanda was married to Vision.
@@ninjaconsultantsixshot Yes, i know, but that's too simple and obvious: look at my response to the first one that replied me, Hank Pym had a part in Vision's creation... If i didn't know a thing, simply saying Wanda is married to Vision explains nothing.
I just remember them being Magneto's kids. This was more convoluted than expected. lol
At least Magneto adopted them even after them not being his kids, Wanda does call Polaris her sister. I still think they're his children despite the retcons.
Another aspect to all of this is how retcons hurt the stories that built upon previous continuity. The House of M event hits rather different when you know titular house is not really blood related, and poses the question - if Quicksilver's not a mutant, how did he lose his powers after M-Day? Did Wanda cast a separate spell just for him?
But, let's say that tomorrow this retcon gets undone - Natalya's murderer turns out to be Magneto and High Evolutionary is revealed to having enhanced the pre-existing genetic material, thus making children mutants again. Well now we would have to fix stories from 2015 and beyond, written with new origin in mind! Terrigen is now established to be lethal for mutants, yet in Son of M it didn't really harm Quicksilver - if he isn't a mutant, that makes sense, but if he is, what saved him? And what about Luna, is she mutant/Inhuman hybrid or not?
House of M was before the first Iron Man movie, before the MCU was established, before they jumbled up continuities trying to sweep their own licensed characters from under Fox's control...
At the time of House of M they were all still mutants.
@@alessandrobaggi6129 That's the thing. No, they weren't.
Retcons are *retroactive* continuity, which means that they are not only true for what is now, but also for everything which came before, regardless of authorial intent at the time. That's why they should make sense in connection with these older stories.
This is an example of those stories NOT making sense due to retcon. If Quicksilver is not a mutant, he shouldn't be affected by No More Mutants spell.
Interestingly there's also an opposite situation with Onslaught event, where Wanda jumped alongside other heroes to absorb his essence. Mutants were not allowed to do so, because that would empower Onslaught. Originally this was excused by Wanda's probability manipulation powers, which made her mathematically not a mutant.
Well now we don't need that mental flex anymore, cause Wanda is not a mutant. Plain and simple!
@@ptcarbonproductions2013 Yeah that was my biggest problem with Hydra Cap. They said all the stories still happened he was just a hydra agent the whole time. Which made 0 sense. if he was a hydra agent why did he fight so hard and really screw up hydra so much? i just don't think continuity matters to modern writers because as i've seen it explained, "it gets in the way of what i want to do".
@@Lazrael32it was Hydra caps fake memories made by Kobic, not what really happened. The same thing happened to the scientist that was part of pleasant hill. It was confirmed by red skull. That's why none of the other Hydra agents remember him as a one of them. He and the real Captain America have a conversation about it after secret empire.
I think that scarlet witch and her brother aren’t mutants but affected by experiments by High evolutionary but are still magnetos kids the reality warping makes sense if she could wipe out 90% of the mutant population im sure she could subconsciously affect her blood relation to her father plus mutants can have human children
Great video. Between this, the prehistoric Avengers and Krakoa- it's woefully apparent that modern Marvel have no grasp of continuity whatsoever. They desperately need a Roy Thomas or Mark Grunewald type in editorial.
DC also has this problem.
Fuck that. It's time to bring out the big guns. Give them *Jim Shooter.*
I would love to read an autobiography written by Scarlet Witch. I imagine it would be very grand and very confusing.
Question is if hers would be the most confusion or Donna Troy's...
@@CMWaters
Most likely Donna Troys.
When you take into account all of the alternate timeline and What-If stories where the twins are still related to Magneto and still Mutants, makes this one especially ridiculous.
My theory is Wanda was so angry at magneto that she warped reality to not be her father anymore.
Same for me.
Listen, there are retcons I respect, they don't even need to make all that much sense, as long as they are better than what they replaced.
This is not one of those times.
Very happy to be scroll through this comment section and see that most agree with me
Part of me wants to see what would happen if the Silver Age Scarlet Witch and Spider-Man's Black Cat were in the same room - would their bad-luck powers cancel each other out? If so, that might be the best time ever to buy a lottery ticket...
And what happens if Domino gets thrown in the mix
Honestly surprised we haven't gotten a St. Patricks day special about the luck based characters before
Don't forget Longshot and 80's Fallen Angel's Chance.
Was it ever actually proven the Th e Black Cat had any powers?
@@MrMatt3046 yeah she got surgery for them
That’s what I like about this channel it’s takes ultra confusing plots like this and lays them out so they’re easier to understand
In my opinion though they could still do some kind of Re-retcon that still makes the twins magnetos children.....just not with his wife !
I believe all of the previous continuity can be maintained with a very mild retcon. The twins’ newest history is that their mother was a Romani witch named Natalya Maximoff, and their father is unnamed. Now imagine that Natalya is also the Romani wife of Magneto, using the name Magda, looking to "retire" from the adventurous life that had been consuming her existence. When the house fire traps their daughter Anya, and Magnus unleashes his fury on the villagers, she flees, because this is exactly what she did not want. "Magda" goes to Wundagore, which Natalya is familiar with, and gives birth, before abandoning the twins, and fleeing again. Chthon made contact with Wanda due to the hereditary potential of the Scarlet Witch. This leaves so much story potential. Did "Magda" really die in the blizzard? Did Anya really die in the house fire? The High Evolutionary's claim of experimenting on them could be factual as well. His failure wasn't in giving them their abilities, but in ruining their development of those abilities, which is why the creation Luminous is more powerful than both twins. This would be in between attempting to give the twins to Robert Frank, and giving them to Django and Marya Maximoff, who were potentially their aunt and uncle, which would add credence to them naming their daughter Ana, and "Magda" naming her daughter Anya, and Django's talent for animating the dolls he made, making it his magic, and not inherent in the wood. After House of M, Magneto, Quicksilver, and the Scarlet Witch appeared to be part of the group who had their X-Gene removed, but in reality, all Wanda did was suppress it. When Magneto and Quicksilver both attempted to regain their abilities, all they really did was unlock what was still there. Pietro's "new" abilities he gained from the exposure to the Terrigen crystals, were actually part of his original abilities before the High Evolutionary's tampering. This also leaves an opening to explore how Wanda's abilities would have progressed without his influence. The blood spell she cast in Axis didn't visibly affect her either. If you read how she worded the spell, it does not distinguish to exclude herself from the curse. My opinion is that Pietro bore the brunt of the changes the High Evolutionary made, and it made him more susceptible to her spell, which is why only he was visibly affected, but due to their tampered genes, actually affected them both, and had the side effect of hiding the X-Gene, like the original House of M spell, but allowing them to still access the abilities. This is a whole lot of fan theory, but it is also the easiest solution to the twins convoluted past, and bring opportunity for a wealth of future stories.
Makes the best sense.
Or just undo the silliness.
This makes sense, except for Terrigen now being harmful to mutants but I guess Pietro wasn't technically a mutant at the time he was trying to regain his powers.
Best thing they could do is just say "Natalia Maximoff" is lying and is actually Cthon or something, and his powers made High Evolutionary believe his lies too. Why he would do that I don't know, perhaps he has plans for not just the twins but Magneto too?
I grew up in the 70s and 80s. My belief is that Wanda and Pietro are Magnetos children. The MCU’s can make this true once the multi-verse phase is complete in the X-Men are now a part of the MCU in their next big 3 to 4 part projects that would take us from 2026 to 2036. I believe the majority of the fan base believes Magneto is there Father. Magneto has had a complicated relationship with the women that he has loved while being on the run from the government. There are parts of him that just wants to live in peace and away from 26:53 .
Like in the X-Men movie Apocalypse. He had a child in that movie that subsequentially died along with his wife, that was a homosapien. Along with Quicksilver mother, talking about a guy he dated that was fascinated with metal. Quicksilver‘s mother knew he was a mutant. The MCU just has to find a way to tie all this together. I wouldn’t be mad if they brought in the High Evolutionary to be part of how their powers came to be.
We need a solo Quicksilver run. I want to see what he can do on his won and actually so some more feats
I hate the type of retcons these characters go through that dramatically affect their backstory, and for no reason too. I don’t mind changes to characters that can revert if not as popular, but this retconning was an absolute mess.
Unfortunately the times that comic authors cared about Continuity are long since gone. This was almost definitely an editorial decision. But many stories don't fit their own continuity anymore. I still love the story of magneto being the father. It allows for more conflicted moral stories. But that's just me.
Hahaha! Obviously you're too young to remember Bob Haney!
Old Bob made "Wonder Girl" a key member of the Teen Titans because she appeared in stories of Wonder Woman....Apparently unaware those were IMAGINARY stories. When this was pointed out to him, he pretty much shrugged.
And of course, there are the Super Sons, stories of Batman and Superman's teenage sons published in the Seventies....l
@@brianthomas2434 That could've been retcon to explain that was actually Drusilla from the Wonder Woman TV series of 1970's.
@Supremmo could have been indeed.
When I was still reading comics (I stopped in 1990) it had been "established " that Wonder Girl was Donna Troy, an ordinary woman given powers by the Amazons (to save her life? I forget!).
HOWEVER
it's my understanding THAT origin was changed.
Possibly more than once.
Trying to bringing in Debra Winger's portrayal from a 1976 TV series is...interesting.
The most recent retcon with Natalya being their mother actually still leaves the door open for Magneto to be their dad. But if he is, that means he murdered Natalya, and that doesn’t sound like him.
They need to simplify their origin story. Magda running off and having Magneto’s twins a compelling enough origin for them. Nothing additional is needed there
The right way to tie everything together:
-Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are Magda and Magneto’s children. Period.
-Their x-genes were initially inert much like that of Grayden Creed, but were activated by the High Evolutionary.
-Magda went to the High Evolutionary of her own free will.
-Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were born on the night of Cthon’s attack.
Those John Byrne Avengers issues with Magda and Wundagore strike an acute nostalgic nerve in me... I had'nt been keeping up with comics for a little while, I was over my friend Jonathan's house, and he had these issues. Everything about it captivated me; Wundagore Mountain (such a cool name), Wanda & Pietro being Magneto's kids, Bova and the High Evolutionary...it was all so enthralling to my young mind! I read them over and over every time I went over his house...
I love/hate this video. I love that you did one on these characters but hate how Marvel reconned the twins from being mutants; it just doesn't make any sense! "Executive meddling" is a good way to put it.
The easiest fixes for this are probably:
1) Make it so the Magneto Wanda cast the family spell on was an imposter/shapeshifter.
2) Make it so that when Magneto was de-aged and re-aged his DNA was changed while simultaneously because of the High Evolutionary's meddling the twin's DNA was changed making them appear unrelated.
3) Magneto had some kind of trinket/artifact/gift on his person which he didn't know was actually guarding him against magic. (A quick flashback where Wanda gives Magneto a small token or something for his birthday and years later he has that in his pocket when the family spell is cast and it deflects the magic.)
Any of those would still allow Magneto to be the one who killed Natalya. Also... Natalya could also be an alias of Magda. With Magneto having indirectly killed her.
I was under the impression this was more "Real World Politics" where as The mutants were with Sony and Marvel Films didn't want the association (at the time) therefore they focused on the Inhumans and recon The Twins backstory. So I feel they should set this back since this is a bunch of executive's doing powerplays.
I am really hoping that Marvel will re-retcon Magneto being their father. That relationship is interesting and id love to see it explored in the MCU
Despite all the retcons something that has always been consistent is that the twins are of Roma ethnicity and heritage
Nice one. Must needed. I’d like to see you do a retcon deep exploration vids on everyone. I know you’ve mentioned them in a lot of your videos already. And I can’t imagine the amount of work it would take on top of the work you already put into your vids. Would be appreciated nonetheless. Time to be a patreon member. 👍
I don't care what anybody says. The twi s are Magnetos kids, they just want to change it now because of the movies that came out with inaccurate information about the chars
Having them be magneto’s children is a good way of bringing magneto into the mcu
Maybe it could be revealed that Agatha Harkness is somehow involved with the deception of the twins not being Magneto's children. She is coming back this summer as an adversary of Wanda. Also she was a supporting character in The first Scarlet Witch series that revealed her supposed mother. Just a thought.
For Wanda, it works that her past is so mysterious and confusing. Chaos and what not.
I really just want a good QuikSilver on screen in Marvel. I know it seems regressive, but I'd love to get lower budget feature length films that are more solo character studies instead of the grand connective projects we are hit with over and over at this point. gotg3 was awesome and I feel like it's because of how isolated the story was and true to phase 1 and 2 it remained, but it seems like every phase is going to be plagued with problems that force marvel to cobble together what they can with what they have a the time (pandemic, writers strike, scandals and cancelations).
Bonjour from France 🇫🇷 ! Really love your works and also the love that you share for the Media. Thx you a lot for this top quality of videos and insight on all this subjects. See you soon...EXCELSIOR !
The mystery of Natya's killer is definitely leaving room for magneto
Wow! That really was convoluted as hell.
I have been waiting for you to someday cover the convoluted parentage of Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch. You didn't let me down. Plus a little bonus content on what a retcon is and a notable Captain America retcon too. I really like it when you do videos on comic book terms and concepts.
Put me down as a yes for that video on Spider-Man's "Sins Past" story.
I'm leading the charge to get a video on BATTLESTAR for the 4th of July.
As always MAKE MINE THE MERRY MARVELITE!!!!
I've wanted to see a video about this. I've been binging your stuff, thank you for your work.
I hate it so much.
They SOMEHOW had all the nonsense wrapped up with a nice little bow with the Magneto version, and *then they poked it again.*
It it so hard for a story to escape retcon soup. This one did it, then went back.
Oh here we go. I hate that they retconned this just bc of Fox. They're still his kids in my canon
The new retcon should be that it’s been Wanda the whole time messing with reality and memories or hers and her brothers, unknowingly, and just give them an official background story that sticks
The latest retcon to twins was DISTASTEFUL!
SHAME ON YOU MARVEL!
I grew up with them as magnetos kids mostly because of xmen evolution and 'wolverine and the xmen', so I guess I'll just go with that lol
Frankly, I thought having them the children of Whizzer and Miss America made the most sense. The constant need to retcon was one of the things that drove me away from reading comics.
The only thing is if the Whizzer and Miss America were still officially the parents of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver they would've had to have been pretty old to be the parents of Wanda and Pietro. In the 70's it worked, but not now. Still, The Whizzer has always been one of my favorite heroes to this day. I do wish Miss America hadn't died during childbirth. She and Robert Frank deserved better.
Does anyone else have a headache from these retcons? 😣
I am glad they are not Magneto's kids. They are better off. I always see Polaris as Magneto's true daughter.
I remember when whizzer and Mrs marvel were the parents it made sense.
Great breakdown but at this point the story is ridiculously stupid, complicated and broken.
magneto being the twins father is a retcon
Look man, I love your stuff way too much. I hope to one day join your Patreon, but until then, I will keep suggesting Rick Jones.
Starting with that gorgeous George Perez/ Terry Austin cover got me to watch❤
They weren't ever really very popular characters. Her powers were always kinda random and didn't make sense. Quicksilver rarely showed up and came off as mostly kind of unlikable, his powers were literally just running fast.
Requesting retcon stories on X-Men characters, including neutral recurring acquaintances & villains.
I love your channel. I would like to ask tho if you, or anyone else, knows of a channel who is the equivalent of you but for DC Comics? As I am a fan of both.
I think most fans are still going to stick with the Magneto origin not the retcon
This is almost as bad as their Ultimate Marvel origin 😭
The 2014/15 retcon is honestly as unnecessary as what they did to Nightcrawler’s origin 😢
They'll always be magnetos kids.
I liked "Prof. X" Series. It was cool to see different artists making unified strips of old stories.
Man, I feel bad for Wanda and Pietro. This would lead to some royal identity crisis.
And to this day Axis events remain completely rejected. One of those cases where the fans picked and are right kinda how the joker does have has an origin and name. Its the acid vat fall and Jack Naiper
OMG!!! My head hurts! This is one of the things which frustrates me. Marvel needs to establish a solid history and leaves it alone. New writers trying to shock and shake up continuity, blah.
Can you do history of the characters mentioned in this video? Speaking of which, How long till you do history of Quicksilver?
Ngl I like the idea of Whizzer being their father
Unless a creator has a Roy Thomas or Mark Grunewald level of comics knowledge- they shouldn't even contemplate doing a retcon.
They need to keep it magneto being their dad its causes less confusion
Damn we could’ve got to see there parents as heroes in the MCU maybe an alternate version we could see them this is so dope!!!
A minor point, in that everyone is talking about the Maximoff twins....
The Captain America saga had another coda. Remember, Timely Comics produced CA stories from 1946 -49, when continuity says he was floating in the Arctic Ocean.
Those could be ignored, but Roy Thomas did a story in What If stating the Cap in the All Winners Squad series from 1946 was IMPERSONATING Cap. Even though it's from "What If" I think it's meant to be canon.
There’s been six or seven characters that became ‘Captain America” and a few that were “Bucky” while Steve was chillin’ in the Arctic if I remember correctly, most, but not all are dead now.
@@ajclements4627 "six or seven?" I just remember the two. But I stopped reading comics (for reasons not worth going into) in 1990.
A lot has been published since.
@@brianthomas2434 Apparently I didn’t remember the number correctly lol. The revival of the character in the mid-1950s was short-lived, and events during that time period are later retconned to show that multiple people operated using the code name to explain the changes in the character. These post World War II successors are listed as William Naslund and Jeffrey Mace. They are assisted by Fred Davis continuing the role of Bucky.
The last of these other official Captains, William Burnside, was a history graduate enamored with the Captain America mythos, having his appearance surgically altered to resemble Rogers and legally changing his name to "Steve Rogers", becoming the new "1950s Captain America". He administered to himself and his pupil James "Jack" Monroe a flawed, incomplete copy of the Super-Serum, which made no mention about the necessary Vita-Ray portion of the treatment. As a result, while Burnside and Monroe became the new Captain America and Bucky, they became violently paranoid, often raving about innocent people being communist sympathizers during the height of the Red Scare of the 1950s. Their insanity forced the U.S. government to place them in indefinite cryogenic storage until they could be cured of their mental illness. Monroe would later be cured and assume the Nomad identity.
And then there was the 2017 "Secret Empire" storyline with Hydra Cap. (Not a good look for the character.)
I mostly remember the high evolutionarie from the Spider-man Unlimited cartoon series from 1999, man that show is underrated.
thank you !!!
So pre-AXIS, while their origin was indeed somewhat convoluted, it still made sense. Yeah, I more accept that Magneto is Wanda and Pietro’s biological father. I’m fine with their post-AXIS origin as long as it lines up only with their MCU version as it makes sense in the context of that.
People hate the this change of Pietro and Wanda.
Man u r encyclopedia. Love ur vids ❤
1. The Avengers The Yesterday Quest
2. The Avengers Nights of Wundergore
3. Vision and The Scarlet Witch vol one and two series
4. Scarlet Witch 2015 and 2017 series
My Favorite Best storylines of the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver Origins ever
'THIS CHANNEL IS EXCELSIOR' ..
To me everything after 2014 is bullshit that they made up so they could use the characters in cinema, wanda and pietro are still magneto's kids and still mutants
So, did Wanda's powers come from her interaction with the demon or did they come from the High evolutionary messing with her?
Magda during her disappearance becomes Nathalia as she return or Magda is really Nathalia
Since you did the History of the Mandarin and Fin_Fang_Foom, can you do history of Ultimo as well as the Shang-Chi villain known as the Death_Dealer?
Can you do history of the Beyonder, Crossfire, Living Laser, Iron Monger, Titanium Man, Crimson Dynamo, Whiplash, Ultimo, Darkhawk, Union Jack, Annihilus, the Badoon and the Broods?
Ugh. The 2014 retcon pisses me off so much.
At least we ended this somewhat confusing video with a somewhat heartwarming message.
"Why are you upset they retconned them to not be Magneto's kids, that wasn't canon until..."
*Because we already know who their parents are. It took 20 years, but we did it. It's DONE.*
Can you do origin of the Grim Reaper, Quicksilver, Devondra, Sentry, Mr Immortal, Captain Universe, Dreadknight, Deathcry, Blizzard, Starhawk, Flerken, Whirlwind, Chemistro, Whiplash, Ronan the Accuser, Ego the Living Planet, the Living Tribunal and Super_Skrull along with Avenger-X and the Protector?
Wow, this is so much more convulted than I thought.
Do one all about ahhniulus and if it's not 20mins + I'll cry love you
Can you do history of the U-Foes, the Ultimates team, Starjammers, Alpha Flight, the Annihilators, the Invaders, the Squadron Supreme, Doom Maidens, the Midnight_Sons, Young Avengers, Dark Avengers, Masters of Evil, the Thunderbolts and the Champions?
How long till you finish doing White Tiger: legacy of the Tiger by doing the history of Ava Ayala White Tiger? Can you do the history of Intelligencia in honour of the She-Hulk Disney Plus show?
Hi, what happened to the deformed child that was born from that couple that arrived at Windagore ?!
One small point I think you missed... there was an early issue where Pietro mentions "the puppets our father used to make." This led the writers to introduce Django Maximoff to try to explain that comment. During the Magneto era, wouldn't Polaris have also been their sister? Or was she retconned as not being Magneto's daughter? I don't remember much about her in all of this.
Can you do origin of the Brood, the Gladiator, Hyperion, Star-Splendor, Havok, Vulcan, Jackal, Stingray, Quasar, Squirrel_Girl, Ultimus, Kly'bn, Kitty Pryde, Yotat, Dr.Faustus, Annihilus and Tryco Slatterus the Champion of the Universe?
Can you make a video on Longshot?
This is crazy I’m getting whiplash trying to keep up with the story.
Good grief, that family is cursed 'hint, hint'.
It's when a geneticist starts wearing armor that one really needs to gtfo of there. You see an armored geneticist, you wrap up your mountain hike early.
Well at that time, Fox was still it's own company before being bought out by Marvel and therefore did not have the film rights to the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. Hence why Feige made those changes cause he could not call them mutants cause Fox had the rights to the term.
And as for Sony's first Spiderman played by Tobey Maguire, his Peter Parker was given organic webbing (not because of what Marvel Comics did to the character) but because Avi Arad and Amy Pascal thought it would be stupid and illogical for a financially struggling college student making a living (barely) as a a freelance newspaper photographer for the Daily Bugle to be able make these web shooters and web fluid so those two just gave their Peter Parker the power of organic spinnerets in his arms.
It was just pure coincidence that both parties gave their Peter Parkers similar abilities.
Yeah....... A lot of problems establishing parentage of some of the characters...... And that's excluding characters like Hope Summers.... Who was technically born to two baseline humans although as I recall the mother died in childbirth and the father was unfortunately killed not terribly long after. But because she was the first mutant birth in quite some time and she wound up being raised by cable.... Her actual parentage and family history is almost completely ignored.
As long as future storytellers remember that the twins are supposed to be romani I can sweat the smaller details
What do you think is the best ting from each one of these Maximoff Retcons? Which one of these is the best?