Pocket NC 5-Axis Tombstone! WW224
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- Опубликовано: 12 ноя 2018
- All of the Ed. One video. Ed Kramer designed this awesome tiny tombstone for his Pocket NC 5-Axis Desktop CNC mill and we machined it. Although sometimes I feel like I'm referring to myself in the third person in this video, eh, you get used to it! Let's talk about workholding, tooling, and don't forget: there's a FREE F3D file download with all of the speeds and feeds!
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Links for this video
Ed Kramer on Instagram | bit.ly/2RCOIB6
The Digital Fabrication Experiment Podcast | bit.ly/2D3GGgk
Lathe Chuck Subplate | bit.ly/2Rha2f4
FREE Pocket NC Tombstone F3D File | bit.ly/2OrO0o9
New SuperGlue Workholding Recipe | bit.ly/2o8ZUrW
:::TOOLS:::
Maritool
Reduced Shank 1/4 3 Flute Finisher 4.0 long X .236 Shank ZrN
bit.ly/2z37ESG
Lakeshore Carbide
3 FLUTE .240 TIP, 1.000 REACH, .250 SHANK BACK CHAMFER TOOL
bit.ly/2z071t0
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Reach us / CNC Info:
Speeds & Feeds: provencut.com
Download Fusion 360: www.dpbolvw.net/click-9255839...
Online Fusion 360 Training: bit.ly/LearnFusion360
Hands-On CNC Classes: www.nyccnc.com/events
SMW Products: saundersmachineworks.com/
CNC Resources: www.nyccnc.com 5 Reasons to Use a Fixture Plate on Your CNC Machine: bit.ly/3sNA4uH 
Наука
Not only a accomplished CNCist but a clever videographer! Thanks for the video.
Nice job Ed and good save on the 'error' half way through. Things will always go wrong from time to time, it is how you recover out of it that sets apart a good machinist.
Though not sure why you'd center drill a hole, then counterbore it removing the center drill, then drill it from the other side... hehehe. We've all been there, just a bolt clearance hole, no biggie.
That trick of indicating off the gauge block is so simple that it should be obvious, but I would never think of it on my own 🤣. Thanks for the tip.
And if you don't have a gauge block, I use 123 block.
Sweet stuff with the secondary decking operation to remove scratches. I've found scratching is especially common when drilling. Awesome video Ed. Thank you
Nicely done Ed!
ATB, Robin
I honestly thought you got a pocket NC :) loved the close fly by's of the tool holder with the work piece
No law says tombstones are only for big machines.
I'm thinking a 4" square by 8" high one might be a cool thing to try for my mill.
Thanks for the idea.
John
Hi Ed, I would like to have more detail on the orange plastic parts at the end of the blue adjustable lines for the cooler liquid.
Saw this on instagram, was really excited to see how you guys made it. Expected to see a 1" boss sticking out of the bottom to grab it with the ER40 collet in the Pocket NC table, would let you take it on and off the table with just one alignment pin for initial clocking. Would need to think thru clearance for collet tightening tool but could be slick. Really nice work on this guys!
Access to the collet closer nut is exactly the issue. But there are other alignment features (precision dowels) on the face of the rotary table that solve the clocking/alignment issue. But if I design a version two of the tombstone I’ll leave a bottom boss that slides into the center bore of the rotary table (with the ER40 collet components removed) for additional stability of the tombstone. The stock Pocket NC vise adapter is designed with that feature from the factory, not sure why it did not occur to me on initial design of the tombstone.
I loved the bell for the tool changes! Are the 3D printed mist coolant joints shared anywhere? Very cool and nice work on the project!
How do you keep from having issues with a chunk of material breaking out int eh pockets when you get towards the center?
Now he can make a multiple impeller pocket NC youtube video instead of the many that just make a single impeller!
Hey ED what happened between opt 1 and 2 at 8:50 there's a good inch of material miss during the scene change?
With long stick out tools like that, try conventional milling instead. The tool will deflect along the wall rather than away from the wall. Same with with C-bores.
also using more engagement of the flutes you have (larger DOC per pass) can help sometimes too since you have more surface area engaged at one time it can help stabilize the cutter.
Ed Rees
Downside is it tends to cut bores small on the diameter and outside dimensions oversized. But it keeps everything stock safe so it’s not a huge deal
@@occamssawzall3486 You can always just do a climb cut for a finish pass to take to final size.
Plata Bear
Sometimes. Usually it’s such a small amount of removal from the wall conventional is still better. Trying to take off a thou or two with a long stick out tool while climb milling tends to cause some serious chatter.
@Ed Rees I would back relief the end mill of 0.005 on diameter. For small endmill it is ez to use a cordless drill on a grinder and make sure you remove uniformly to prevent endmill from snaping. It s amazing what you did with a small machine.
I'm pretty much brand new to everything machining, though I now have a Shapeoko 3 XXL CNC. I'm wondering, how do you drill a hole in the side of your part if it's too tall to be rotated on the CNC bed and clear the spindle? I have a drill press but it seems pretty crappy at making accurate holes exactly where I need them. Is there a best tool for this kind of job?
Nice video. Where did you get the coolant blow nozzles at? What are they called? Keep up the good work!
Lovin the content and the "Wera" hex keys big fan myself .UK fan.
Many thanks, simply amazing !
So beautiful!
you're not worried that the relief slot does cause some stress concentration? 🤔
Hey I've always wondered, why don't you guys use ATCs in any of the tormachs?
Hi! whats the maximum depth of cut a milling tool can do?
For long overhag try the osawa releafed shank with variabile pitch
Cool little project, I am wondering though, why is the part hollowed out? I understand why it is done on those massive thombstones used in large industrial setups to keep it somewhat mobile but on this scale that is obviously not an issue. Thanks!
I just realised that the pocket NC is a small 5axis mill, so eventhough it may be easy to handle for Ed, I assume that the little motors and limited rigidity of the pocket NC doesn't like the added mass if it where solid.
@@StefsEngineering we need more problem solving like this on the internet
I don't know if it make's a dif or not but some hollow shapes have less resonance to them than solid piece.
@@stormbringermornblade8811 That's because of the stiffness-to-weight-ratio being higher for a part like this. Since the natural frequency is the square root of stiffness/weight, the resonance will shift upwards into a range that's less easy to trigger.
Also, just like a hollow tube vs. a solid tube, the section is not only lighter but has some structural shape and is stiffer
What coolant system do you use?
Perhaps conventional would have helped with the chatter with the deep edge finish and the long tool.
What kind of coolant sprayer is that?
Are the times you post in the corner of the screen for each operation fusion estimates or time in "real life"?
Ed Rees
Never will. Mastercam has been around for decades and still doesn’t give accurate real world times. It’s also damn near impossible to get a perfect CAM to real life time match up. Just too many variables to account for just a general reference feature.
To be honest though it doesn’t entirely matter. Reducing time in the CAM translates to the same % of time saved on the machine. The total times are just different.
In short. It’s not really worth the software developers time to achieve perfect CAM to real world time synching. Way more important things to take care of.
How about showing this on the Pocket CNC in use? How does he use it and what about the workflow set up?
You can see it in action on my Pocket NC in some of my recent @ekramer3 Instagram posts
Wondering if you can make bait molds?
Do you have a video on how the indicator works/set up
Its a Haimer 3d taster, it measures in XYZ and its pretty simple to get running.
Hi! How to program that kind (manual tool change ) without finding the origin again?
The co-ordinates for each tool are most likely set before the job, once that's done, the setting of the workpiece and the program take care of the rest.
The beauty of a machine like this in terms of tools, is that you are only limited by what kind of tools you have, how many tool offsets your machine can store and how many tool holders you have.
was it just me or was the drag engraver quite loose? the tip looks to move inside the holder?
@Ed Rees yeah I know that it could move up and down, but it looks like radial movment?
I may attempt to make something like this. But I think I will figure out how to make my PocketNC machine the thing itself.
The Pocket NC could to it. But it would take a really long time to remove that much material. And the long reach tooling needed to machine the center pocket would be a challenge. Pocket NC is not as rigid as a Tormach.
@@vector2929 Rather than worry about lightening the tombstone could you instead counter balance it with some weight on other side of the rotary axis?
When will we see the DIY turret lathe in action?
@Ed Rees Looking forward to the video!
I have a PNC... is this something i can get from SMW or EC?
Right now, I just have the two prototypes SMW made for me but I’m working on some productization ideas to make these available to other PNC owners. Stay tuned.
9:40 Ugh. That machine looks so stiff! 😍 I'm jealous
How did it check for flatness and square? :-)
That was less critical than you might think on the NYCCNC ops. Ed left me some meat on each face to deck it square on the Pocket NC itself.
@@vector2929 Makes since. I figured maybe it was finished in place.
The chatter during the helical interpolation might be increased by the feed rate being too high.
The actual feed rate at the cutting edge is larger than the programmed feed rate at the tool center because their distances from the tool path center are different.
Scroll down to "Two axes ramping - circular. Part 3" at this link to find a better explanation and the formula to calculate the correct feed rate input: www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-gb/knowledge/milling/milling-holes-cavities-pockets/pages/ramping.aspx
I don't see the point in drilling material out of a pocket, wasted time unless these holes are made to go through the part. Sure in this case its one part however you're doing two things here, changing tools and running those tools on a cycle which isn't needed and two, making the cutter break out of and into material when it could be a constant feed/speed cut parameter which is bad for tool life having the tool come out of and go in to a cut which cause un-do vibrations/chatter and chips/is detrimental for stiff tooling like carbide, particularly with SUPER long stick out (the vibrations are logarithmic, not linear!. Better to keep the tool engaged fully all the time (in aluminum). Nice to have a hole to plunge in to but other than that (at lease in aluminum) I wouldn't be doing the extra 8 drills to remove material close to the corners (in aluminum). A pocket with depth cuts and an entry hole is plenty in aluminum. In tool steels, D2/M2 ick/S7/A2/etc. then its fine to give the tool a bit of multiple angle repreave in the the acute corners however it still needs something to cut so drill undersized by 20% tooldiameter (10 % per side) to leave some meat for the tool to keep constant engagement. Alternatively you can use an opening radial pattern in all shapes which wastes some tool movement but keep the engagement the same. In aluminum you can generally just hog with the right tool and flood. You weren't running flood here though.
Making round things square.
as a cnc programmer, I totally laughed out at 3:30 every time a machinist freak out at my job because the holder is real close to the part/fixture, im like "vericut said there is no crash" haha
_Just_ returned from the basement after boring some holes to be later tapped for M5 into a shelf to mount my old WMF Kitchen Tools Rail to.
Looking through my stock of suitable screws I ended up with 27.5mm calculated holes which, in F360, I rounded up to 28mm... Then I went like: "Wait a sec... How long did I program those ⅛" Bits to begin with!? Open Tool Library - Check ⅛" Bit - Observe 28mm.
Hmm... Well here goes nothing?: imgur.com/IQS7yr3.png
after all I still had like 0.5mm to spare before rounding it up? =)
Lol it all depends on what your definition of close is 😉
@@diditwork370 sometimes I do a shrink fit extention in a pocket, less than 4thou off the wall xD, the machinists hate me lol
@@Duraltia- Always round DOWN with tool stick out! hehehe
@@diditwork370 .1 mm is CLEARANCE! for days! haha... but clearance none-tha-less
can someone explain to me why sometimes they don't use fluid collant and sometimes they do???
Main reason they sometimes don't use coolant is for filming.
@@bowercreates2999 Unless it's a 'Machine Porn' video - got have some live bukkake in there for the punters!
what is the song of your intro
The cheapest pocket NC is about 6K ...but why not just by a Tormach for just a little bit more and get something with way more power.
I would like to hear any counter arguments.
That was bad ass
Hi Ed
Your link to the F3D file (for all the speed and get and tooling info) goes to a Page Not Found on your web site. Can you provide a link to the information please? Thanks.
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the purpose of said "tombstone"? I can't really see what it does. Nor can I see why he asked you to mill it when it appears he has a newer system than you. I mean no disrespect, just don't really understand. My son is contemplating applying for an apprenticeship with Hermle in Germany is what has sparked my interest. Well, that and I've always wanted my own CNC!
Alro steel? I never heard this , alro make only aluminium profile. I can't see more after this.
Videos like this make me wish I had been a machinist instead of an engineer...
One can be both. I am a hobby machinist.
Kenny Phillips very true. I’m discovering one can even be a software developer and machinist at the same time. :)
satisfying
What is a tombstone?
You start on a lathe, but the only toleranced part(the round recess) you mill in? Wtf?
what is the point of a tombstone
That's odd to me too
Multiple parts with just one press of cycle start
Put another way. More work for the machine to do while you are away from it.
Basically a pallet system for machines that are horizontally challenged.
For a small cnc machine the tool change is done manually there for a tombstone make less tool change per operation per part= faster cycle time per part. if they are using the same group of tooling for roughing/finishing.
Yeah I don't think I have ever gotten a good finish from necking a reduced shank tool. least not on any small spindle like say a bt30 or smaller unit. There is a limit as to how far out you can stick the tool before the spindle no longer has enough rigidity.
Can I order a part made from your shop?
3:45 lets say so easy part and CAM happened
Wait, you're using a shear hog with steel?
That's aluminum.
Ed Rees Ok Ed, now that the aluminum prototypes are done, I’m ready for you to get started on the titanium tombstones. :)
11:28 Did that drill hurt anyone else's ears?
This dude makes me nervous with his drill bits.😬
*DING* lmao
lmao when i heard that I was like "what...???" - nice little anime on the coolant nozzle....easter egg for the focused viewers?
Great hobby machine. I'd personally go with a Haas if your customers need better than plus or minus .01"
My results with the Pocket NC are more like plus/minus 0.001"
2:49 dont blame cam. you did not write Gcode or read it. OH TOO LONG. well that parts not take long hand write code. not even hard. lol
not steel
Steel would be a bit too heavy for the little Pocket NC’s NEMA17 steppers. The aluminum tombstone weighs in at just under 1 Lb.
Instead of "run time", you should use cycle time. Stating 0:10 and 0:06 is very misleading. Time is money and for each tool it is the total time from start to finish which includes traversing to home and manually removing and inserting the tools.
A tombstone is used for running multiple parts at a time
i would write gcode faster and run faster,but im pro. pro not use cam. i see rectacle and circle g1 and g2 g3 lol,why need 800k lines of g1
I always wondered why not say milli instead of thou, milli means 1/1000. Thou sound so butcherd.
The imperial abbreviation for .001” is called a mil in order to not be confused with a mm... commonly used by pcb designers and not many others.
I haven’t watched in awhile, I like the new guy. I personally didn’t like the other guys.
I’m not a machinist. Know nothing about it. So I’m not going to feel embarrassed at all asking . . . What the hell is a tombstone? And what’s it for? LOL