wow...this was huge Warren! you did a *_masterful_* job at editing this down to the major highlights that clearly demonstrate the problems here, then addressing the problems AND being a model of patience, gentleness, charity, wisdom, graciousness, insight with Doug , and even James!.... this is horrifying and you opened it right up and laid it all down! Keep it up brother, great work!
That's what I love about Idol Killer's channel. He is always so gracious to those he disagrees in his pushbacks and this is why I eagerly await ever upload 👏🏽👏🏽❤❤
@@IdolKiller You are welcome. You have been such an edifying brother to me and has shown me so much about living like Christ. Your quest for truth and the care that you show in your videos is so genuine that it has greatly encouraged me to dig deeper. You may now know the impact that your series on PSA has had in the body of Christ but I want to let you know that it cleared up so much for me and made me realise that I was not denying God's word by not seeing this teaching in scripture. I just want to encourage to keep fighting the good fight 🙏🏾❤👏🏽
13:32 It seems so strange to talk about that kind of credit. In accepting the worl of Christ, one is admitting that christ saved them. It is a kind of great fulness that is the opposite of this "I put the mask on" mindset. If christ had not come, and one believed that God would save him. His faith would be in vain. So it isn't the active agent in the saving process.
@@eremiasranwolf3513 I'm sorry you see the God of scripture as wicked. You probably think it's not fair that God would allow people to perish. If God was fair, we would all be condemned to perish. Because God is a just God. It's in His mercy and love that He redeems anyone at all. Romans 9:19-23 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" [20] On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? [21] Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? [22] What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? [23] And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,
I sleep soundly (Psalm 4:8) thank you. Because you can't seem to get your limited, finite understanding/head around this doctrinal truth, does not mean it is not biblical.
I’m putting together a 6 week lesson plan for my church on Calvinism. The number of Christian’s that are completely unaware of this is striking. Thanks for standing on the side of the Gospel!
Calvi-god hates humanity and deceives humans for his glory. Why would you trust such a god to create your brain? He only cares for glory and would be glorified sending all Calvinists to Hell. How do you know he won't do just that? There is no hope for anyone if Calvi-god exists.
@@raywinsor3948Well I was a Calvinist. But let me guess I somehow don't understand it anymore or never understood it because I realized it was a false doctrine. You give me a break lol 😆
@@raywinsor3948 Not only is there no hope in Calvinism, there’s no gospel, either. If you’re elected to salvation, you were saved before Christ ever walked the Earth, and were never in danger of going to Hell. If you’re not of the elect, God never loved you, and you never had a savior.
The meritorious analogy of the scuba divers: if Diver A deliberately damages his oxygen system and then Diver B comes in and says “here, take some of mine, stupid.” I don’t see that Diver A deserves any credit for accepting help. 😂 The oxygen tank didn’t just spring a leak by accident. We sin on purpose.
Glad there’s more channels like this coming up, I’m planning on joining the front myself when prepared. Calvinists and postmillenialists seem to dominate Christian popular discussion. I appreciate that there are others that are wanting to display authentic Christianity which isn’t being directed out of an angle of an old logistical system. I could say more about the infuriating content of the inconsistency of many Calvinists, not just in salvation but other affected areas of theology. We can’t ‘get ahead’ of God. When we share the gospel, we lay out the facts and then leave the choice with them, it’s in God’s hands and we are a vessel or agent of grace, so to speak. We don’t ponder on whether they’re destined to hell or not. I just don’t get why they don’t understand the complexity of both man’s will and determination and yet God’s sovereignty above that.
See this is why I must say you guys turn me off because Christians who believe the biblical doctrines of grace don't "ponder whether a sinner is predestined or not or a vessel of grace. We proclaim and share the biblical Gospel with everyone (every sinner without exception is a potential candidate for salvation) because we don't know who the elect are (Romans 8) and sinners don't come to Christ because they believe they are elect--rather , they come to Christ because God has commanded sinners everywhere to repent and believe the Gospel--they believe they have come to Christ and , by God's grace, freely and willingly believe in (trust) Christ to be their personal Lord and savior from sin. I have more respect for God's Word than to insult the lives of great Bible-believing preachers like John Bunyan , Charles Spurgeon, George Whitefield , David Brainard (missionary to indigenous native Canadians ) , Jonathan Edwards (First Great Awakening in New England States) , Dr. Ashael Nettleton ((Second Great awakening in New England States), Dr. Martin Lloyd Jones, who were greatly used by God to win souls for Christ Calvinists. Yes, I sleep soundly because I don't take out of context what people say , as you just did (what's new). Are you afraid of what God's Word really teaches because you don't think it reasonable. Who are you to tell God that he is unreasonable or unjust, because that is what those who embrace semi-Pelagic doctrine do when they say Christ's redemptive work only made salvation possible (read Matthew 1:21) but it all depends upon the decision of spiritually dead, blind and hostile sinners to make salvation a fact or effectual ; in effect, giving more credit to human decision than to God's sovereign grace and the Holy Spirit's convicting, regenerating and drawing power/work in the new birth spiritually transforming hearts/lives to enable them to believe the Gospel and in giving sinners spiritual life and moral ability to believe in (trust) Christ for salvation. Give me a break.
That should be (I left out) "sinners believe they are elect or chosen AFTER they have come to Christ in repentance and faith for salvation. who are the elect or chosen, if not all who , by God's grace, freely and willingly trust Christ to save them from sin; in short, believers.
Part of the attraction of Calvinism is that it's formulaic. All you need are the magic glasses, like Joseph Smith, and then you have the ability to understand the secret code.
Watching Derek in those clips is beyond painful. They expose Calvinism for what it actually is, so it's not surprising Derek's fellow Calvinists didn't like it and James Infallible White was concerned enough to actually take time off from polishing his beautiful cereal box doctorate to try to "explain" it. The thing is, Derek should be commended for "sticking to his guns" and not "playing the Arminian" as so many Calvinists do when speaking in public to distract from what they actually believe.
You obviously don't have a clue about biblical Calvinism like many today, but repeat what you hear--mostly from skeptics. There most likely will be more Calvinists in heaven than Arminians but they will all come the same way--by grace (alone) through faith (alone) in Christ (alone).
The discussion with Doug starting around @10:00 was good. It seems like Doug has been heavily influenced by Calvinistic theology and has trouble grasping that a free gift doesn't become any less free just because it's accepted.
He wasn't influenced by Calvinistic theology. In fact he was a Mennonite and leaned far more to an Armenian influence and opposition to Calvinism. He talks a lot about this in his livestreams.
@@jaclo3112 all athiest are influenced by the wicked god of Calvinism, look for everything in youtube, they REASONED out with the god who "hate" them...
@@jaclo3112 that's typical calvinist response.. My sentence is coherent, your brain is doing cognitive dissonance god of Calvinism is the one doing the 2 Corinthians 4:4, and that god is SATAN, because he doesn't want majority of people saved, look for athiest in youtube..
I always wonder how a Calvinist would feel about the "perfect justice" of God if they were on the reprobation side of the equation. (Which of course they never are) This always smacks of arrogance and a complete lack of awareness. It sickens me when they make this defense to explain why you can't point out the truth about their claims.
@@Madhatter675 That is always the question I have. When I have asked some in the past, they always point to their subjective experience. They "feel" like they do. That seems highly problematic to me
@@Madhatter675 another good question. Matt slick seem to think his emotional experience done it. I think, personally, it's there arrogance. The special boys.
@@Madhatter675 exactly!! I think that this is one of the most heinous things taught in this system. That God could be tricking you that you are a believer!!!
When Doug was talking through the scuba diver analogy where the diver would have to be “stupid” not to take the oxygen, I was thinking that the major difference between the diver’s need for oxygen and human’s need for a Savior is that the diver doesn’t need to be convinced that he is dying. So, yes, the “smart” answer is to take the oxygen. However, an atheist needs to be *convinced* that he needs a Savior in the first place. Because why would he call out to a Savior if he doesn’t even believe he needs one? The whole battle is convincing someone they need a Savior, and then of course Jesus would be the obvious answer. And no, someone is not “smarter” if they are convinced. They merely humble themselves before the Most High God.
Yes, I agree. A sinner must understand what he is being saved from (sin or spiritual separation form God) before he can fully understand the gospel and believe in Christ for salvation.
Calvinism is the easiest apologetic for the atheist. Actually it's the only apology for the atheist. Christianity teaches that God has made himself known to the atheist. Calvinism teaches that God certainly has not made himself known to the atheist. It's just an anti-Gospel. People need to start acknowledging that.
That is why atheists reject it. Right? You like other haters of the biblical (yes, biblical) doctrines of grace reveal your ignorance whenever you open your mouth to attack it. Calvinism teaches no such thing. God had disclosed His natural revelation to every person--the witness of His creation which reveal His moral attributes and render ALL "without excuse" (Romans 1:20); the law of God written on the heart of every person, his/her moral conscience bearing witness (Romans 2: 15), so that Romans 3: 19 tells us all who are under the law are "guilty before God" (Romans 3:19) and, as experience shows, He saves atheists as well as people who are religious (baptized as infants, members of a church) but lost (don't have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and savior).
Atheists don't use any true biblical apologetic to defend atheism. But, they do take plenty of scripture out of context or read their own meaning into scripture in their spiritual blindness and unbelief (read 1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 1:18; Psalm 14:1).
James White is one of the people most guilty of this: In politics, in cults, in Hollywood interviews, in every walk of life, there is a underlying push to not answer the question they asked, but to answer the question they "should" have asked. James does not like Doug asking those questions. He goes on and on about Adam, and Romans this and that, and how natural man does this and that. You hit the nail on the head in this video: Doug absolutely hammers Derek and James knows it. But James decides to come out and answer questions Doug never even asked to defend Calvinism because it makes God look evil, uncaring, and vindictive. If discussing the GOSPEL forces James to walk Doug through 500 years of reformed theology and dozens of supplemental books and sermons and the Diet of Worms, and the synod of Dort, and then dive into philosophy, special illumination, compatibilism, monergism, etc etc, there is a problem with his delivery. Paul explained it to the jailer in one sentence!!!
Do you even know what the Gospel is? read 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Romans 1:16-17. That has nothing to do with what Calvin believed. I'm a a Christian (Sovereign grace) but don't believe everything Calvin believed. My authority is not John Calvin, but God's Word.
This gives us just a tiny glimpse of what Calvinism is REALLY about! There is not a sinner in the entire world who would not be repulsed by any Calvinists HONEST presentation of what they REALLY believe! At least this man is being consistent in his Calvinism, unlike many who try to water down the undeniable and horrible conclusions of their Gnostic philosophy!
I would submit to you that they are repulsed by what the Bible teaches--and teaches clearly--not by Calvinism (which has nothing to do with Gnosticism . Sinners believe freely and willingly in Christ for salvation, through the enabling power of the Holy Spirit, of course (that is not Calvinism, that is what scripture [scripture interprets scripture] explicitly teaches (read AND BELIEVE John 6:44; 63, 65 . I believe everyone is a potential candidate for salvation. Why? Because we don't know who the elect are. The Bible is clear that all true believers are elect. They find out they are elect AFTER they have believed/ trusted in Christ to save them from sin (John 3:16, 18; Romans 8:1; 1 John 5:11-13); that is why I, like Spurgeon, believe in the free, sincere offer of the Gospel to "whosoever will may come" but that does not negate the biblical truth that those who do come to Christ in true repentance and faith are chosen in eternity past (John 6:37; Ephesians 1:4-5; 2 Thess. 2:13; Acts 13:48; John 15:16, please read) by the Father (John 6:37; John 10:26; John 17:2, 6, 9, 11-12, 24; Acts 13:48; etc., and are drawn to Christ by the Spirit who convicts of sin (John 16:8) and regenerates or gives spiritual life (Titus 3:5; John 3:3, 6, 8) . Hypothetically, when you get to heaven , you will see both these truths posted on signs--on the outside of heaven's gates: "Whosoever will may come" but on the inside : "Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. None of us have any claim on God's grace. God would be perfectly justified if he saved none. It is a miracle of His amazing grace and mercy that he saves anyone. Yes, it is disturbing doctrine, even to me. But I have to believe all of God's Word, not just the parts I like. I will understand it better in heaven; meanwhile I am not going to twist and pervert what scripture teaches because I do not like what it plainly says. If you are going to reply, do so with SCRIPTURE (VERSES, CHAPTERS, BOOKS, ETC. ) , not with what you think sounds reasonable to your finite mind. God bless.
@@raywinsor3948 I don’t know how you sleep at night believing what you believe. “God would be perfectly justified saving no one” really think about that for a second. God created roughly 107 billion people and predestined them to hell for something they have no control over. I don’t understand how you don’t abhor your (what I and many many others believe to be) false doctrine.
Really? I have heard all this crap before because you, like many, don't understand the biblical doctrines of grace (because they were clearly believed and taught by Christ and the apostles themselves centuries before John Calvin. You believe what you want, even though I would taker the five points of Calvinism any day over the heretical five points of the "free will" Pelagic doctrine of the Remonstrance (check it out) .
@@raywinsor3948 well have fun with that then. I chose not to worship Calvin’s God. But don’t mind me I was causally determined before the foundation of the earth to write this comment to you and to find Calvin’s conception of God abhorrent and illogical I’m just a guy with no free will who exists in no real meaningful way just like you😉 God determined me to think this way why does it bother you?
WOW! James White was basically saying don’t tell them the “truth” hide it from them! Or don’t talk about it because it exposes our doctrine to tough questions that we can’t truthfully answer! Derrick said exactly what Calvinist actually teach but they are taught to just never say it that bluntly!
Watching two *"Master Class"* videos, yours and Leightons, where Reformed Theology is the mop-head mopping down a Walmart bathroom floor, in the same day was a real treat.
Yet again James White proves that he has no business talking about anything important but as usual does anyway . What a silly little either deceived or dishonest man he is .
If Doug was watching the news and saw a drowning person get rescued he would NEVER expect them to congratulate themselves for their rescuing themselves. They would be fully thanking the person (and prob God) who rescued them. It would never cross his mind that they’re being rescued was somehow meritorious. Now just apply that same logic for salvation, Doug.
I started questioning my faith when my church was taken over by Calvinism but I continued to challenge it and now I don’t believe in any of it. It stopped making sense to me.
Same here! When I found out Calvinists believed God was grand and glorious to send billions of people to hell, I started to wonder if I was in a global cult called Christianity. I was also taught that God hates people. I was often motivated by fear and guilt. Thank God I have access to the Bible and could study myself and have come to see that what I was taught is not Biblical...even though presented as such.
Calvinism is blasphemous. Period. They state that you cannot believe unless God elects you to believe. So let's unpack this. John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Note the last verse: "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." At Judgement Day, those condemned to Hell are not condemned because they are sinners, or murderers, or child abusers, or rapists, or thieves, etc. They are condemned simply because they have not believed in Jesus. Why? Jesus paid it all on the Cross. The condemnation for murder, etc, was all paid for. All our sins have been wiped off the books. All that's left is for us to ACCEPT that gift. We can refuse. If we refuse, we are spitting on what Jesus did and telling him "I'll pay it myself, even though you already did!" You are condemned for ignoring "so great a salvation" and insulting the sacrifice of the Son of the Most High. But, in Calvinists eyes, you CANNOT believe unless God ALLOWS you to believe. So when you stand before Jesus and ask him "Why condemn me?" all he can say is what he's said before. "You didn't believe." (How that might play out:) "But you didn't choose for me to believe." "Correct." "So that means I remained unregenerated, and remained a sinner committing terrible sins and harm... because you chose NOT to renew my heart? You chose to NOT forgive me." "Correct." "But you said 'God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish'... that is a lie. You don't want whosoever. Just whom you decide to pick." "Correct." "And you're sending me to hell for not believing, even though that was impossible in my case?" "Correct." "So that means that you wanted me to be a sinner, to keep on sinning, to not believe in you, and to go to hell, whilst blaming only ME for NOT believing. Not for the sin, JUST for not believing!" "Correct." --- I'm not even going to start this next bit with "I'm sorry, Calvinists..." because what I'm going to say I'm not sorry about. I rebuke this teaching. I reject it utterly as being unbiblical and blasphemous to the Most High. The CLEAR teaching of scripture is that God wants ALL men to believe, so he's not going to put roadblocks up himself. Whether or not we believe is ENTIRELY ON US. Anyone can believe. All who hear the Gospel of the Kingdom are touched by the Spirit enough that they are able to make the choice. You are NOT regenerated before choosing Jesus. You are born again (regenerated) AFTER doing so. He already wants all. He calls all. Many are called, few are chosen. It is in the choosing of him that we are chosen ourselves. The Bible is NOT a pick-and-mix. ALL is true, or NONE of it is. The Bible speaks of predestination AND man's free will. They are not in conflict. We deal with the "free will" part. Leave the "predestination" bit to be worked out by the only one who can. Jesus.
James White intended to leave out some of his doctrine to construed his teaching to make him sound doctrinally correct.This is called deception. Not truth.
I realize this is a very powerful message, but I honestly don't think the consistent Calvinist would have a difficult time answering it at all. "Of course we don't give them hope, it's not about hope for man it's about glory for God!!!11!11!!!" The consistent Calvinist also shouldn't care that he offers no hope to the non-elect because saving them was never of concern to begin with. God does everything and everything glorifies God in their paradigm - they have nothing to worry about.
Calvinists miss CONTEXT in Roman's 9 - 11...Read the first verse of each chapter. These chapters ate about the ELECTION OF THE NATION OF ISRAEL. They are not about election to salvation.
Hey Warren! Sorry it is been so long... Recovery from "the bug" has been a longer road than anticipated, but thankfully doing much better the past 2 months! Just catching up. Great video. Thanks for being willing to swim against the reformed flow!
It sounds like Dr. White is finally admitting that his theological beliefs are not based on scriptures as he claims but actually based on an a priori philosophical belief of Determinism, or Augustinian “Sovereignty.”
Wow thank for this video. It is so very sad. Imagine the folks who watched that interview who may have been on the fence about God. It certainly wouldn’t have been good news to them.
Hadn't heard from JW in awhile...and I must say I haven't missed him. But JW is still doing JW things, and showing how little he cares for others. How can it be a waste of time to speak to someone who rejects Christ? They may may not turn when I speak to them, but maybe what I say creates a crack in their walls of unbelief and someone else breaks the rest of the walls down. I don't have so much arrogance in me that I believe I get to decide who hears the gospel, because the gospel is not mine to withhold!
Doug prefers Calvinism because it gives him a "valid" reason to live as an atheist. It takes away any responsibility from him and lays the blame solely on God.
Precisely. IF Calvinism is wrong and our words do in fact have an impact on who will be saved or not, because that isn't something that's been already determined, then the idea that one must be elected by God and regenerated in order to believe is the perfect excuse for not believing. Now, on the day of judgment this excuse will not excuse the sinner because they could have believed, could have turned to Christ and been saved, but in regards to apologetics and persuading people to believe Calvinism is clearly a stumbling block. It's dangerous and does nothing to further advance the kingdom of God. It's only by being inconsistent with their worldview can a Calvinist be persuasive and affective in leading others to Christ.
I rest my case--what you just said clearly shows your ignorance of the biblical doctrines of grace. Calvinists certainly do believe that no one will be saved who is not regenerated but the new birth is not the work or effort of men. It is a real birth and just as you had nothing to do with your physical birth, you have nothing to do with your physical birth. It is solely the result of the Holy Spirit--the agent in regeneration--working in your heart and life independently of man , which is why we say one is born again from above by the Holy Spirit. John 1:13 (read it) states explicitly that the new birth is not of the will of man: "Who were born (or born again) , not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but OF GOD." That is clear enough. Proof plenty. Unless you want to call the apostle John , writing under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, a liar.
@@raywinsor3948he gave the right to become children of God to the ones who believed. Doesn't say the ones who were picked from before the foundation of the world. Men do the believing and God does the saving.
Does not have to say that. Obviously, all who believe are the elect or chosen of God (see Acts 13:48; John 10: 6:37, 65; John 10: 26, 27-29), unless you can show me from scripture where a true believer is not elect or chosen. @@brucegolston6507
Really? Neither the Bible, especially Ephesians 1:13, nor Calvinist say any such thing. Ephesians 1:13 states a plain, biblical truth; namely , that one who hears the Gospel must trust Christ to be saved but such a believing/trusting response is not possible without regeneration , because unregenerate sinners cannot open their own spiritually dead, blind and unbelieving hearts. And remember that regeneration/new birth , which is the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit independent of man and believing can occur simultaneously; that is , at the same time in much the same way water flows (Effect) immediately when you turn the handle on the faucet (Cause), so when the Holy Spirit gives spiritual life and moral ability to a sinner (Cause), so immediately the water of eternal life Effect) flows in the heart of that person. But because regeneration or new birth and believing can take place simultaneously, regeneration being the Cause and saving faith or believing the Effect in salvation , Ephesians 1:13 is not contracting biblical truth that regeneration is necessary for believing --and because sealing with the Holy Spirit is not possible without regeneration; therefore, sealing by the Holy Spirit from this perspective can follow believing. Why? Because in this context , sealing with the Holy Spirit is a guarantee of the inheritance of the believer in Christ (see Ephesians 1:14; 2 Corinthians 1: 22 , but that does not alter the truth that an unregenerate sinner (without spiritual life and moral ability) cannot believe without regeneration/new birth, as scripture (1 Corinthians 2:14; John 6:44, 63, 65; etc. ) plainly shows (scripture interprets scripture)--that regeneration is the Cause of believing and not the other way around (believing is the Cause of regeneration).
How can James White be so popular? He is so puffed up and full of pride and never wrong about anything! He's got a diploma mill PhD and soaks up the adoration of people calling him Dr. White. It seems I can't watch two Christian videos in a row without either White, MacArthur or Peters making an appearance!
Technical, frivolous arguments such as saying that you helped yourself by accepting what was freely made available to you ought to be beneath us all. What did that scuba diver do to merit the extra oxygen? NOTHING! Of course he can say he helped himself, but why doesn't he? Why doesn't he thank himself for saving himself? Why does he intuitively give thanks to the one who provided the life saving oxygen? Why does he exclaim, "you saved my life!" ? Why don't we go around thanking ourselves for accepting gifts instead of thanking the giver? Why do we intuit that we ought not claim credit and why is that intuition so strong that it seems never to cross the mind of the overwhelming majority of mankind until they get into a discussion about free will?
A better analogy is: i'm drowning and someone throws me a lifeline, I have to choose to grab the line and to hold on as i'm pulled to safety. I can choose to let go at any point or I can hold on until i'm rescued. I didn't save myself if I hold on, and it's not the rescuer's fault if I choose to let go and drown.
At 12 minutes in... To Doug's raising the stake with O2 tank analogy perhaps one might see his raise and up the ante a bit: Jesus came to Doug in his desperate situation and offered him his own O2 tank knowing it will ensuring Jesus' death. Doug demands to pay $100 for the tank. Jesus advises that it is a gift and no payment can be made. Doug still refuses demanding he must earn it and does not trust this Jesus. Doug uses his brilliance to deduce that if he takes the tank he will be saving himself so he refuses the tank... Ref John 6:29.
Calvinists believe everything is depraved and therefore, they assume the gospel must be something beyond normal practicalities and that presumed depravity. Calvinists want you to believe in God through a humanist context. That why they can't give the gospel in a practical context. That's why I continually say that Calvinism and atheism are two sides to the same coin. They don't believe God is believable...unless He's extraordinary.
Sincerely, your analysis was absolutely fantastic. I myself am a Molinist, but I haven’t had strong feelings against Calvinism for a while. This analysis was brutal. You’re an exceptionally clear and reasonable thinker. And I’ve seen many many of these types of channels, but I mean it. Terrific job.
You did a great job. Bizarre for Doug to say that receiving oxygen is meritorious. I am sure you were tempted to say "Yeah, that would be stupid." 10:40
I remember a Calvinist I knew making the comment in an upbeat tone, “I wonder if babies go to hell.” At that moment the thought came to me, “Wow, we really do become like the God we believe in.”
Good stuff. I was expecting you to use the clip of the Catholic lady who says James creates questions and problems that no one is arguing for. I think I saw that on the Catholic guys channel How to be a Christin about James white. It was funny if you haven't seen.
This video is incredible, I loved every second of it, and pray for Doug, who DOES have hope and DOES have access into the grace which every man may find salvation if he trusts in the work of Christ on the cross. I think Satan wants to create churches that don't prioritize evangelism (which is the slow, natural outcome of Calvinism and why it dies off every 20 years or so) and blames God as the root cause of all sin. Satan (and mankind) are just vessels through which God causes horrific sin according to Calvinists, so this drives unbelievers away from the churches and away from a loving Father. Calvinism is the perfect excuse for people like Doug to continue in their unbelief!
No disrespect to Doug but at around the 12 minute mark when he's arguing that we earn salvation because we made the smart choice or acted, it's the same argument that Calvinists make and it's demonstrably foolish. The FACT that without Christ going to the cross and being resurrected and God graciously offering that work to us as a gift we would not be saved proves that nothing we do in response to get that gift earns it. Whatever action we take, whatever smart decision we make, it's all irrelevant in the scope of earning, meriting, or working for our salvation when salvation is a work of God through Christ that without that our action, decision, etc. could not save us apart from it. Not even save us a little. It's not an intellectual argument and I'm often quite embarrassed that it's an argument made by Calvinists and also here by Doug as an atheist. A gift is a gift, period. Nothing we do with that gift either by receiving it or rejecting it changes the gift from being a gift.
@37:00 on calvinism, not only did God decree all of our desires, He also decreed all of our actions. He decrees the ends as well as the means, so it's also erroneous to point to the desires of men as if that means their actions weren't decreed.
One day I stopped interpreting divine revelation through the prism / prison of Augustinianism.... And what a day that was! To know that there was a viable alternative... and not just a viable one, but a more classical, historical and Scripturally and logically coherent one. It all started fitting together... No more "problem passages" and Scriptural gymnastics to try and squeeze conclusions necessitated by my philosophical / traditional presuppositions! I'm not Orthodox, but thank God for the Eastern Church's and those in the West which didn't / don't accept or idolise certain teachings of Augustine, and, to some degree, Anselm, Aquinas, and then the Reformers who put it all on steroids X Lol Love that you are making this info accessible to Christians of all types (personally I will be received into Orthodoxy one day though)
Correct not every western Church is teaching this. Catholics and Lutherans are not calvinistic even though Calvinists always try to claim Luther as a calvinist. No....Luther certainly was very much not one. Even though Luther was an Ausgustinian monk
I lose brain cells every time I listen to Calvin’s logic. 😵💫😵💫 but Doug is like a little kid. He just draws its logical conclusion leaving the Calvis like a deer caught in the headlight. That is fun to watch.
This is where prenevient grace comes in. Prenevient grace (delivered through the Gospel) breaks Satan’s chains on the heart of the potential believer and allows them to choose or reject God freely, without regenerating them against their will.
Their hope of eternity is like crossing your fingers on Friday night while watching The Lottery numbers come out and pray. "please God, let me win?" Calvinists should have adopted the Daisy instead of the tulip, as their acronym, "he loves me, he loves me not"
This popped up on my feed this AM. Probably because I am a Pine Creek sub. I am an atheist and really enjoyed the clip. I appreciate your sense of humor and willingness to engage respectfully with those who disagree. Kudos! Speaking of disagreement, the idea that atheists are "rejecting" God is absurd. Usually Christians claim "we just want to sin". The thing is, there are so many version of Christianity why not just pick a version that approves of your morality? There is no social advantage to declare oneself an atheist. Certainly not in the bible belt where I live. If it turns out I am wrong and have to stand before Yaweh or Allah or some other omniscient God, both of us will know I have been honest about my position. If he chooses to throw me into a lake of fire there is nothing I can do to stop him. Bottom line is that if God is real then the Calvinists are correct. He knew I was destined for hell when he created me. Unless of course he decides to reveal himself to me before I die. Either way it's his call...
Thanks for the kind words. I don't take the typical view you likely encounter... that you're either spiritually dead and blind and unable to believe, or you're living in some unrepentant sin. Could the latter be true? Sometimes, but I think many just default to this instead of actually engaging those who have questions or simply disagree. Rather, I think people more often than not simply lack information. You'll note I'm an inclusivist who believes God judges all men rightly, based on their conscience. For instance a man could operate out of the sincerity of his heart and yet be wrong. There was no malicious intent, so why punish him? Or a man could operate rightly, despite not affirming a specific set of propositions. Jesus Himself seemed to elude to this standard of consideration at judgment when He said a man had 2 sons... one said he would obey the Father but refused... the other said he refused to obey, but went out and did as asked. Who then was the obedient son? There are many non-Christians who deny Christ in principle yet obey His instruction. So I'm fine letting God sort it out. I don't preach the Gospel believing simple affirmation of it is what saves. I preach it because I believe it's the power of God unto salvation... but also transformative in this life, freeing us from futility, fear and showing us purpose and love. I don't hold to the neo-Platonist view of God as seen in Calvinism. Gid is who He said He is... not our conception of the "Greatest conceivable being". Thus you're not a necessary being and we're not eternally in the mind of God. Yet when He did determine to create you, He did so as a free agent capable of great things including loving Him and others. Fatalism is false and even now you're free.
@@IdolKiller I am not very familiar with Inclusivism. Are you saying that as long as I am doing my best to be a good father, husband, friend co-worker etc... I can still gain heaven despite not believing in Jesus? Also, I don't believe in free will. Yes, we make decisions but the questions is, could we have decided differently? Whether we were created by God or natural causes we are what we were made to be imo...
@@baskeptic1161 I believe everyone will be judged based on the standard of their own conscience either condemning or excusing them and that Jesus desires none should perish and thus makes good judgments. Ultimately every knee will bow and confess but some who've never heard or believed before will do so gladly, while others will do so angrily and fearfully. Check out Romans 2:14-16 Yeah, most Calvinists and atheists agree in denying freewill. I affirm it, provided one understand it isn't free of influence or some sort of super power.
22:19 Dr. White says 'grace and mercy cannot be demanded" I think he should reconsider his presupposition... The writer of Hebrews encourages believers that they have 'right' standing to legitimately do something along these lines which is counterintuitive... "16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need." Heb.4:16 kjv. Usually, one would not go "boldly" in an effort to obtain that which is not deserved(grace/mercy)... but rather with 'hat in hand', simply hoping for the best.🤔 BUT, we are told to go BOLDLY to the throne of grace to obtain 'MERCY' in a time of need! As believers, it is by faith that we have a right to expect God to be gracious and merciful with an abundance of help towards us according to his riches in Glory. BECAUSE of our believe and position IN CHRIST. And, unlike Marxist theory, it is not a zero sum game... when God helps one, it is never at the expense of another. Hebrews 4:16 was one of my mothers most loved verses. She always told anyone who would listen... and some who wouldn't still heard it anyway. 😊Having lived 99yrs on this earth, she went to be with Jesus in Glory. I put that verse on her tombstone. She still preaches that message of hope to anyone passing by to this day. I have no doubt it pleases her.
I'm a Christian, not a Calvinist. I appreciate your work. At the 8min mark, what was the Good News you offered the atheist? Why did you include confession & following as conditions to believing in Christ? Didn't the OT people confess their sins & followed God, to a fair extent possible, but still were called unfaithful & failed the covenant (Heb8:9)? For an unsaved person, with so many sins many of which he may not be aware of or he may not want to leave & the daunting task of following God (of which even great saints in the OT didn't succeed), how could this be GOOD NEWS? Isn't the Gospel as simple as Acts16:31? The atheist just needs to know that Christ has finished all the required righteousness of God, on our behalf, & it's imputed to us if we believe. If not we'll have to face God with our own righteousness.
He seems to have incorporated the idea of annihilation from some where. The early church believed that people in hell would be perpetually dying. In a state of death
I’m very glad to have watched this. I’m a presup atheist that Abrahamic religion is the transition from statues and trinket Idol worship to invisible idol worship. Jesus is merely a Paul invention invisible idol worship. IdolKiller indeed, excellent art btw.
Hi, Jennifer. You don't need analogy of other people; just read first 5 books of old testament,by useing your logical God give you. You would know what maybe other don't want you to know. Let's all seek information about the God. Not from people but from books. As God wants us to do so!
@@IdolKiller I used to go to Church Apologia and I sat through many of James White's sermons and teachings. I had just come out of the watchtower and thought Calvinism was Christianity... let's just say I've learned a lot since then. Thanks to channels like yours and Leighton Flowers and so many others, it's showed me God's actual love for people and me. Thanks again brother 👊🙂
@@jude3andlaura2 I went to KH in Glendale and Prescott. Faded out in Denver. My sister Laura lives in Scottsdale. She got out of Watchtower in high school. Later converted to Reform Judaism.
@@cluny I'm glad you're out of the watchtower!! My channel has my testimony and some videos I've done talking to Jehovah's Witnesses, you might enjoy it. Thanks for reaching out 😃
Brother Warren. In the interview with Doug, you mentioned that you are a Christian Inclusivist. I lean towards Inclusivism myself. I was wondering if you have covered this topic in depth in any other video already. I'd like to have some more biblical support, scriptures, to base my position more confidently. Thanks, brother. God bless.
Nurse Comes to you in the hospital: "I'm here to tell you you are incapable of taking this medicine. It could heal you, but you are incapable of taking it." Why? "Because you would never want to take it no matter how sick you are" "Then Why did you even bother to come into my room?" "Just to remind you you can't take the medicine, just in case you get that evil little thought in your head that you MIGHT be able to, you know, heal"
Receiving the tank underwater is not meritoious works. Works = "Wages due" , according to Romans 4. Also, having belief in God does not save you without Chriet. As it is written, "If Christ has not been raised from the dead, your faith is worthless".
I just had an epiphany that there was another group that claimed they were glorifying God by adding to Scripture. I believe their name began with P, and (quite appropriately) rhymes with HERESIES.
26:05 “James is upset Doug is so obedient to the will of God” 😂😂 made me chuckle. You really do just have to throw up your hands and laugh sometimes at the insanity and endless contradictions within Calvinism.
I don’t know much about your doctrinal beliefs, but rejecting the heresy of Calvinism is a good thing, for sure. I was raised UPC and I’m still a Jesus name Christian but have some doubts about the doctrine that is taught by that organization and several others. They seem so determined to destine people to hell and Jesus pointed out that “If you, being sinful know how to give your children good gifts, how much more will your Heavenly Father do for you?” I’m not better than God, I know that without a doubt, but even I being a forgiven sinner wouldn’t sentence any sinner to eternal torture, no matter what their sins were. It’s called in Revelation “The second death”. Not “The second eternal torture”. I lean toward “eternal” destruction, meaning once people are judged and cast into the lake of fire, they will be destroyed and never seen or heard from again. There will indeed be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth when these realize they will be utterly destroyed and have no eternal life, then get thrown into that horrible death. God have mercy on us to receive your gift of eternal life and not suffer the second death.
When you believe you have an immortal soul, “death” doesn’t really mean death, “life” doesn’t really mean life. Your brain has to redefine these words to accommodate your Platonic lens. The amazing thing is how coherent the scriptures become when you remove the filters of post NT tradition.
It is always so amazing and instructive how many words Calvinists like James White need to use in order to try. and explain their version of theology. It really is a form of gaslighting in which you end up somewhere inside of a concentric circle wondering what in the world he is trying to talk about. The gospel is indeed good news and it is not complicated. Even a child can understand it. But the likes of James White cannot.
Sad and tragic exchange: Atheist: “Every person who is in hell right now is there because of something God did not do”. Calvinist: “Correct”. Atheist: “I don’t know how you sleep at night believing that.”
Pride is the number one sin keeping us from Salvation. God's Spirit is always searching for anyone with a heart willing to accept the truth, and when the truth of the gospel is presented to that person , who the Lord has brought to that place of accepting and believing and confessing , they are saved. So The Father draws the person to the Son, and the person repents in belief and is saved.
Personally, I would have a hard time to do presupp-apologetics when atheists are informed about calvinistic theology. I mean, how? ... Great points made.
The issue is really what guys like JW mean by "think presuppositionally"... they mean default to Calvinism, not Christianity. As Christians entering such a debate, we all presuppose Christianity to be true... but the problem arises when wisdom, reason & logic are seen as adversarial to the faith. That's a sign of a real problem
Warren - I really appreciate the spirit in which you answered Doug - with gentleness and love... A third approach does exist - and it is grounded in scripture and a theological perspective of such Church Fathers as Gregory of Nyssa: Combine the best of Calvinism with the best of Arminianism - i.e. Sovereignty and Love: God is not willing that any should perish (instead He "desires that all men be saved") - (therefore?) Every knee WILL bow and every tongue WILL confess that 'Jesus is Lord' (the Gospel!) to the Glory of God the Father. Or, as Isaiah has it, "Every tongue will swear allegiance". God will not force us "against our will" - but will speak to that which is the deepest Truth of our being (deeper than the truth of our being sinners): we are made (good!) in His Image - and the false Idol (which you expose so well!) of "Total Depravity" cannot overtake this Truth (which is closer to true Pelagianism than most realize - but that you, once again, have helped wonderfully to clarify). Apart from this sovereign intervention we would indeed perish - for we have been (apart from any choice we initially made) taken captive by Satan - our minds blinded - so that we do "his will". We get a sense of this sovereign act and ability in Romans 11:26 "in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob."" God sent His son NOT to condemn the world He "so loved" - but so that it might be saved... The Son (THE Word) was sent to accomplish a purpose: "so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it." THIS is the unconditional GOOD News to which we must (and will) respond: "BEHOLD the Lamb of God - who takes away the sin of the world!"
wow...this was huge Warren! you did a *_masterful_* job at editing this down to the major highlights that clearly demonstrate the problems here, then addressing the problems AND being a model of patience, gentleness, charity, wisdom, graciousness, insight with Doug , and even James!.... this is horrifying and you opened it right up and laid it all down! Keep it up brother, great work!
Thanks so much!
That's what I love about Idol Killer's channel. He is always so gracious to those he disagrees in his pushbacks and this is why I eagerly await ever upload 👏🏽👏🏽❤❤
@@DonieleEdwards thank you!
@@IdolKiller You are welcome. You have been such an edifying brother to me and has shown me so much about living like Christ. Your quest for truth and the care that you show in your videos is so genuine that it has greatly encouraged me to dig deeper. You may now know the impact that your series on PSA has had in the body of Christ but I want to let you know that it cleared up so much for me and made me realise that I was not denying God's word by not seeing this teaching in scripture. I just want to encourage to keep fighting the good fight 🙏🏾❤👏🏽
13:32 It seems so strange to talk about that kind of credit.
In accepting the worl of Christ, one is admitting that christ saved them. It is a kind of great fulness that is the opposite of this "I put the mask on" mindset.
If christ had not come, and one believed that God would save him. His faith would be in vain. So it isn't the active agent in the saving process.
"I don't know how you sleep at night believing this."
I have had this thought so many times regarding Calvinism.
Calvinism literally makes me sick to my stomach.
@@danielletracyann that's because you don't understand it.
@@eremiasranwolf3513 I'm sorry you see the God of scripture as wicked.
You probably think it's not fair that God would allow people to perish.
If God was fair, we would all be condemned to perish.
Because God is a just God.
It's in His mercy and love that He redeems anyone at all.
Romans 9:19-23
You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" [20] On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? [21] Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? [22] What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? [23] And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,
I sleep soundly (Psalm 4:8) thank you. Because you can't seem to get your limited, finite understanding/head around this doctrinal truth, does not mean it is not biblical.
@@raywinsor3948 Calvinist specific beliefs, such as the idea of "Regeneration precedes faith", are not biblical. It's a man made doctrine.
“There is no head/heart disconnect here, because there is no heart for the lost at all”.
-Warren has hit the target 🎯
I’m putting together a 6 week lesson plan for my church on Calvinism. The number of Christian’s that are completely unaware of this is striking. Thanks for standing on the side of the Gospel!
Yup I remember watching this. They were not able to give hope because Calvinism has no hope
Calvi-god hates humanity and deceives humans for his glory. Why would you trust such a god to create your brain?
He only cares for glory and would be glorified sending all Calvinists to Hell. How do you know he won't do just that?
There is no hope for anyone if Calvi-god exists.
Nor Love, Justice, Kindness, Mercy!!
Really? so you think you understand Calvinism? Give me a break.
@@raywinsor3948Well I was a Calvinist. But let me guess I somehow don't understand it anymore or never understood it because I realized it was a false doctrine. You give me a break lol 😆
@@raywinsor3948 Not only is there no hope in Calvinism, there’s no gospel, either. If you’re elected to salvation, you were saved before Christ ever walked the Earth, and were never in danger of going to Hell. If you’re not of the elect, God never loved you, and you never had a savior.
The meritorious analogy of the scuba divers: if Diver A deliberately damages his oxygen system and then Diver B comes in and says “here, take some of mine, stupid.” I don’t see that Diver A deserves any credit for accepting help. 😂
The oxygen tank didn’t just spring a leak by accident. We sin on purpose.
“I don’t know how you sleep at night believing this.” Lol. Extremely hilarious, but sadly on point.
Glad there’s more channels like this coming up, I’m planning on joining the front myself when prepared. Calvinists and postmillenialists seem to dominate Christian popular discussion. I appreciate that there are others that are wanting to display authentic Christianity which isn’t being directed out of an angle of an old logistical system. I could say more about the infuriating content of the inconsistency of many Calvinists, not just in salvation but other affected areas of theology. We can’t ‘get ahead’ of God. When we share the gospel, we lay out the facts and then leave the choice with them, it’s in God’s hands and we are a vessel or agent of grace, so to speak. We don’t ponder on whether they’re destined to hell or not. I just don’t get why they don’t understand the complexity of both man’s will and determination and yet God’s sovereignty above that.
Thanks for tuning in. Join the good fight!
I'm a provisionist but also a postmillenialist. I don't think you need to be a Calvinist to be postmil.
See this is why I must say you guys turn me off because Christians who believe the biblical doctrines of grace don't "ponder whether a sinner is predestined or not or a vessel of grace. We proclaim and share the biblical Gospel with everyone (every sinner without exception is a potential candidate for salvation) because we don't know who the elect are (Romans 8) and sinners don't come to Christ because they believe they are elect--rather , they come to Christ because God has commanded sinners everywhere to repent and believe the Gospel--they believe they have come to Christ and , by God's grace, freely and willingly believe in (trust) Christ to be their personal Lord and savior from sin. I have more respect for God's Word than to insult the lives of great Bible-believing preachers like John Bunyan , Charles Spurgeon, George Whitefield , David Brainard (missionary to indigenous native Canadians ) , Jonathan Edwards (First Great Awakening in New England States) , Dr. Ashael Nettleton ((Second Great awakening in New England States), Dr. Martin Lloyd Jones, who were greatly used by God to win souls for Christ Calvinists. Yes, I sleep soundly because I don't take out of context what people say , as you just did (what's new). Are you afraid of what God's Word really teaches because you don't think it reasonable. Who are you to tell God that he is unreasonable or unjust, because that is what those who embrace semi-Pelagic doctrine do when they say Christ's redemptive work only made salvation possible (read Matthew 1:21) but it all depends upon the decision of spiritually dead, blind and hostile sinners to make salvation a fact or effectual ; in effect, giving more credit to human decision than to God's sovereign grace and the Holy Spirit's convicting, regenerating and drawing power/work in the new birth spiritually transforming hearts/lives to enable them to believe the Gospel and in giving sinners spiritual life and moral ability to believe in (trust) Christ for salvation. Give me a break.
That should be (I left out) "sinners believe they are elect or chosen AFTER they have come to Christ in repentance and faith for salvation. who are the elect or chosen, if not all who , by God's grace, freely and willingly trust Christ to save them from sin; in short, believers.
They are demonic - and that makes
It easy to understand them
Part of the attraction of Calvinism is that it's formulaic. All you need are the magic glasses, like Joseph Smith, and then you have the ability to understand the secret code.
Watching Derek in those clips is beyond painful. They expose Calvinism for what it actually is, so it's not surprising Derek's fellow Calvinists didn't like it and James Infallible White was concerned enough to actually take time off from polishing his beautiful cereal box doctorate to try to "explain" it. The thing is, Derek should be commended for "sticking to his guns" and not "playing the Arminian" as so many Calvinists do when speaking in public to distract from what they actually believe.
You've got to give it to Derek for being so blatantly honest in his Calvinism. That's the first time I've heard an honest reformer.
Derek has not exposed anything in these clips except his limited, finite understanding/unbelief of sound biblical doctrine.
@@raywinsor3948 Same thing.
How about evidence to support your fallacy claims about biblical Calvinism OR are you afraid you are wrong, like many.?
You obviously don't have a clue about biblical Calvinism like many today, but repeat what you hear--mostly from skeptics. There most likely will be more Calvinists in heaven than Arminians but they will all come the same way--by grace (alone) through faith (alone) in Christ (alone).
The discussion with Doug starting around @10:00 was good. It seems like Doug has been heavily influenced by Calvinistic theology and has trouble grasping that a free gift doesn't become any less free just because it's accepted.
He wasn't influenced by Calvinistic theology. In fact he was a Mennonite and leaned far more to an Armenian influence and opposition to Calvinism. He talks a lot about this in his livestreams.
@@jaclo3112 all athiest are influenced by the wicked god of Calvinism, look for everything in youtube, they REASONED out with the god who "hate" them...
@@TheEngineer19 your sentence is incoherent. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
@@jaclo3112 that's typical calvinist response..
My sentence is coherent, your brain is doing cognitive dissonance
god of Calvinism is the one doing the 2 Corinthians 4:4, and that god is SATAN, because he doesn't want majority of people saved, look for athiest in youtube..
@Jac Lo
He says the last church he was in was Presbytarian. I find no small coincidence in that fact.
I always wonder how a Calvinist would feel about the "perfect justice" of God if they were on the reprobation side of the equation. (Which of course they never are) This always smacks of arrogance and a complete lack of awareness. It sickens me when they make this defense to explain why you can't point out the truth about their claims.
Very good.
How do they know that they have true grace and not a fake one? Just curious.
@@Madhatter675 That is always the question I have. When I have asked some in the past, they always point to their subjective experience. They "feel" like they do. That seems highly problematic to me
@@Madhatter675 another good question. Matt slick seem to think his emotional experience done it. I think, personally, it's there arrogance. The special boys.
@@Madhatter675 exactly!! I think that this is one of the most heinous things taught in this system. That God could be tricking you that you are a believer!!!
When Doug was talking through the scuba diver analogy where the diver would have to be “stupid” not to take the oxygen, I was thinking that the major difference between the diver’s need for oxygen and human’s need for a Savior is that the diver doesn’t need to be convinced that he is dying. So, yes, the “smart” answer is to take the oxygen. However, an atheist needs to be *convinced* that he needs a Savior in the first place. Because why would he call out to a Savior if he doesn’t even believe he needs one? The whole battle is convincing someone they need a Savior, and then of course Jesus would be the obvious answer. And no, someone is not “smarter” if they are convinced. They merely humble themselves before the Most High God.
Yes, I agree. A sinner must understand what he is being saved from (sin or spiritual separation form God) before he can fully understand the gospel and believe in Christ for salvation.
And I think this is why you see so many hardened criminals believing the Gospel, many of them realize they need a savior.
Calvinism is the easiest apologetic for the atheist. Actually it's the only apology for the atheist.
Christianity teaches that God has made himself known to the atheist. Calvinism teaches that God certainly has not made himself known to the atheist. It's just an anti-Gospel. People need to start acknowledging that.
That is why atheists reject it. Right? You like other haters of the biblical (yes, biblical) doctrines of grace reveal your ignorance whenever you open your mouth to attack it. Calvinism teaches no such thing. God had disclosed His natural revelation to every person--the witness of His creation which reveal His moral attributes and render ALL "without excuse" (Romans 1:20); the law of God written on the heart of every person, his/her moral conscience bearing witness (Romans 2: 15), so that Romans 3: 19 tells us all who are under the law are "guilty before God" (Romans 3:19) and, as experience shows, He saves atheists as well as people who are religious (baptized as infants, members of a church) but lost (don't have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and savior).
Atheists don't use any true biblical apologetic to defend atheism. But, they do take plenty of scripture out of context or read their own meaning into scripture in their spiritual blindness and unbelief (read 1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 1:18; Psalm 14:1).
Its time we just recognize Calvinism as nothing more than Manichaeism in Christian guise. It is pure paganism, just a destructive force in the church.
James White is one of the people most guilty of this: In politics, in cults, in Hollywood interviews, in every walk of life, there is a underlying push to not answer the question they asked, but to answer the question they "should" have asked. James does not like Doug asking those questions. He goes on and on about Adam, and Romans this and that, and how natural man does this and that. You hit the nail on the head in this video: Doug absolutely hammers Derek and James knows it. But James decides to come out and answer questions Doug never even asked to defend Calvinism because it makes God look evil, uncaring, and vindictive. If discussing the GOSPEL forces James to walk Doug through 500 years of reformed theology and dozens of supplemental books and sermons and the Diet of Worms, and the synod of Dort, and then dive into philosophy, special illumination, compatibilism, monergism, etc etc, there is a problem with his delivery. Paul explained it to the jailer in one sentence!!!
Do you even know what the Gospel is? read 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Romans 1:16-17. That has nothing to do with what Calvin believed. I'm a a Christian (Sovereign grace) but don't believe everything Calvin believed. My authority is not John Calvin, but God's Word.
Thank you so much for this video. I pray that more people use their platforms online to expose this gas lighting.
This gives us just a tiny glimpse of what Calvinism is REALLY about! There is not a sinner in the entire world who would not be repulsed by any Calvinists HONEST presentation of what they REALLY believe! At least this man is being consistent in his Calvinism, unlike many who try to water down the undeniable and horrible conclusions of their Gnostic philosophy!
I would submit to you that they are repulsed by what the Bible teaches--and teaches clearly--not by Calvinism (which has nothing to do with Gnosticism . Sinners believe freely and willingly in Christ for salvation, through the enabling power of the Holy Spirit, of course (that is not Calvinism, that is what scripture [scripture interprets scripture] explicitly teaches (read AND BELIEVE John 6:44; 63, 65 . I believe everyone is a potential candidate for salvation. Why? Because we don't know who the elect are. The Bible is clear that all true believers are elect. They find out they are elect AFTER they have believed/ trusted in Christ to save them from sin (John 3:16, 18; Romans 8:1; 1 John 5:11-13); that is why I, like Spurgeon, believe in the free, sincere offer of the Gospel to "whosoever will may come" but that does not negate the biblical truth that those who do come to Christ in true repentance and faith are chosen in eternity past (John 6:37; Ephesians 1:4-5; 2 Thess. 2:13; Acts 13:48; John 15:16, please read) by the Father (John 6:37; John 10:26; John 17:2, 6, 9, 11-12, 24; Acts 13:48; etc., and are drawn to Christ by the Spirit who convicts of sin (John 16:8) and regenerates or gives spiritual life (Titus 3:5; John 3:3, 6, 8) . Hypothetically, when you get to heaven , you will see both these truths posted on signs--on the outside of heaven's gates: "Whosoever will may come" but on the inside : "Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. None of us have any claim on God's grace. God would be perfectly justified if he saved none. It is a miracle of His amazing grace and mercy that he saves anyone. Yes, it is disturbing doctrine, even to me. But I have to believe all of God's Word, not just the parts I like. I will understand it better in heaven; meanwhile I am not going to twist and pervert what scripture teaches because I do not like what it plainly says. If you are going to reply, do so with SCRIPTURE (VERSES, CHAPTERS, BOOKS, ETC. ) , not with what you think sounds reasonable to your finite mind. God bless.
@@raywinsor3948 all you said has been summarized above. It still remains an immoral doctrine.
@@raywinsor3948 I don’t know how you sleep at night believing what you believe. “God would be perfectly justified saving no one” really think about that for a second. God created roughly 107 billion people and predestined them to hell for something they have no control over. I don’t understand how you don’t abhor your (what I and many many others believe to be) false doctrine.
Really? I have heard all this crap before because you, like many, don't understand the biblical doctrines of grace (because they were clearly believed and taught by Christ and the apostles themselves centuries before John Calvin. You believe what you want, even though I would taker the five points of Calvinism any day over the heretical five points of the "free will" Pelagic doctrine of the Remonstrance (check it out) .
@@raywinsor3948 well have fun with that then. I chose not to worship Calvin’s God.
But don’t mind me I was causally determined before the foundation of the earth to write this comment to you and to find Calvin’s conception of God abhorrent and illogical I’m just a guy with no free will who exists in no real meaningful way just like you😉 God determined me to think this way why does it bother you?
WOW! James White was basically saying don’t tell them the “truth” hide it from them! Or don’t talk about it because it exposes our doctrine to tough questions that we can’t truthfully answer!
Derrick said exactly what Calvinist actually teach but they are taught to just never say it that bluntly!
You've got to give it to Derek for being so blatantly honest in his Calvinism.
Gotta say, the idea that someone underwater giving you an oxygen tank and because you accepted concluding you saved yourself is literally insane.
Watching two *"Master Class"* videos, yours and Leightons, where Reformed Theology is the mop-head mopping down a Walmart bathroom floor, in the same day was a real treat.
Yet again James White proves that he has no business talking about anything important but as usual does anyway . What a silly little either deceived or dishonest man he is .
If Doug was watching the news and saw a drowning person get rescued he would NEVER expect them to congratulate themselves for their rescuing themselves. They would be fully thanking the person (and prob God) who rescued them. It would never cross his mind that they’re being rescued was somehow meritorious. Now just apply that same logic for salvation, Doug.
Yes! That truly puts it into perspective!
I started questioning my faith when my church was taken over by Calvinism but I continued to challenge it and now I don’t believe in any of it. It stopped making sense to me.
Simple orthodox Christianity is reasonable and beautiful, but it's rarely taught in the West.
Same here! When I found out Calvinists believed God was grand and glorious to send billions of people to hell, I started to wonder if I was in a global cult called Christianity. I was also taught that God hates people. I was often motivated by fear and guilt.
Thank God I have access to the Bible and could study myself and have come to see that what I was taught is not Biblical...even though presented as such.
@@IdolKillerwe should all be orthodox wether we're in an Orthodox, Lutheran or Catholic Church.
Calvinism is blasphemous. Period. They state that you cannot believe unless God elects you to believe. So let's unpack this.
John 3:16-18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Note the last verse: "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
At Judgement Day, those condemned to Hell are not condemned because they are sinners, or murderers, or child abusers, or rapists, or thieves, etc. They are condemned simply because they have not believed in Jesus. Why? Jesus paid it all on the Cross. The condemnation for murder, etc, was all paid for. All our sins have been wiped off the books. All that's left is for us to ACCEPT that gift. We can refuse. If we refuse, we are spitting on what Jesus did and telling him "I'll pay it myself, even though you already did!" You are condemned for ignoring "so great a salvation" and insulting the sacrifice of the Son of the Most High.
But, in Calvinists eyes, you CANNOT believe unless God ALLOWS you to believe. So when you stand before Jesus and ask him "Why condemn me?" all he can say is what he's said before. "You didn't believe."
(How that might play out:)
"But you didn't choose for me to believe."
"Correct."
"So that means I remained unregenerated, and remained a sinner committing terrible sins and harm... because you chose NOT to renew my heart? You chose to NOT forgive me."
"Correct."
"But you said 'God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish'... that is a lie. You don't want whosoever. Just whom you decide to pick."
"Correct."
"And you're sending me to hell for not believing, even though that was impossible in my case?"
"Correct."
"So that means that you wanted me to be a sinner, to keep on sinning, to not believe in you, and to go to hell, whilst blaming only ME for NOT believing. Not for the sin, JUST for not believing!"
"Correct."
---
I'm not even going to start this next bit with "I'm sorry, Calvinists..." because what I'm going to say I'm not sorry about. I rebuke this teaching. I reject it utterly as being unbiblical and blasphemous to the Most High. The CLEAR teaching of scripture is that God wants ALL men to believe, so he's not going to put roadblocks up himself. Whether or not we believe is ENTIRELY ON US. Anyone can believe. All who hear the Gospel of the Kingdom are touched by the Spirit enough that they are able to make the choice. You are NOT regenerated before choosing Jesus. You are born again (regenerated) AFTER doing so. He already wants all. He calls all. Many are called, few are chosen. It is in the choosing of him that we are chosen ourselves.
The Bible is NOT a pick-and-mix. ALL is true, or NONE of it is. The Bible speaks of predestination AND man's free will. They are not in conflict. We deal with the "free will" part. Leave the "predestination" bit to be worked out by the only one who can.
Jesus.
Superb! I couldn't agree more! My patience with Calvinism, and those who teach it,grows thinner by the day!
James White intended to leave out some of his doctrine to construed his teaching to make him sound doctrinally correct.This is called deception. Not truth.
Romans 10:13. “Everyone who calls upon the Name of the Lord WILL BE SAVED”
Your conversation with Doug is so good! Your laid out the gospel beautifully ❤️
Thank you!
Doug did a good job of pointing out flaws in the Calvinist system.
I realize this is a very powerful message, but I honestly don't think the consistent Calvinist would have a difficult time answering it at all.
"Of course we don't give them hope, it's not about hope for man it's about glory for God!!!11!11!!!" The consistent Calvinist also shouldn't care that he offers no hope to the non-elect because saving them was never of concern to begin with. God does everything and everything glorifies God in their paradigm - they have nothing to worry about.
Sad but so true of their system!!
Except that God’s glorious reputation will do better without the help of Calvinism.
Calvinists miss CONTEXT in Roman's 9 - 11...Read the first verse of each chapter. These chapters ate about the ELECTION OF THE NATION OF ISRAEL. They are not about election to salvation.
Hey Warren! Sorry it is been so long... Recovery from "the bug" has been a longer road than anticipated, but thankfully doing much better the past 2 months! Just catching up. Great video. Thanks for being willing to swim against the reformed flow!
Glad to hear you're doing better! I battled that same thing earlier this year and it was no joke. I still feel overly fatigued.
It sounds like Dr. White is finally admitting that his theological beliefs are not based on scriptures as he claims but actually based on an a priori philosophical belief of Determinism, or Augustinian “Sovereignty.”
Wow thank for this video. It is so very sad. Imagine the folks who watched that interview who may have been on the fence about God. It certainly wouldn’t have been good news to them.
Calvinism = The Good News...like winning the lottery.
Never have I seen an ATHEIST dismantle Calvinism wirh such skill and precision. This is extremely entertaining.
Because they don't know how, no more than they know how to dismantle scripture and biblical truth.
@@raywinsor3948 That doesn't even make sense.
@@EssenceofPureFlavor It makes all the sense in the world.
@@raywinsor3948 Saying it makes sense doesn't make it make sense.
Never have I seen an atheist dismantle ANYTHING with skill and precision, especially Calvinism .
Appreciate your well reasoned and insightful presentation! I'm surprised you don't have many more subscribers!
Thank you! Spread the word
Hadn't heard from JW in awhile...and I must say I haven't missed him. But JW is still doing JW things, and showing how little he cares for others. How can it be a waste of time to speak to someone who rejects Christ? They may may not turn when I speak to them, but maybe what I say creates a crack in their walls of unbelief and someone else breaks the rest of the walls down. I don't have so much arrogance in me that I believe I get to decide who hears the gospel, because the gospel is not mine to withhold!
Doug prefers Calvinism because it gives him a "valid" reason to live as an atheist. It takes away any responsibility from him and lays the blame solely on God.
Precisely. IF Calvinism is wrong and our words do in fact have an impact on who will be saved or not, because that isn't something that's been already determined, then the idea that one must be elected by God and regenerated in order to believe is the perfect excuse for not believing. Now, on the day of judgment this excuse will not excuse the sinner because they could have believed, could have turned to Christ and been saved, but in regards to apologetics and persuading people to believe Calvinism is clearly a stumbling block. It's dangerous and does nothing to further advance the kingdom of God. It's only by being inconsistent with their worldview can a Calvinist be persuasive and affective in leading others to Christ.
Guy: "How Do I Get Regenerated"
Calvinist: "You Don't"
Bible: "Ephesians 1:13"
🥲
I rest my case--what you just said clearly shows your ignorance of the biblical doctrines of grace. Calvinists certainly do believe that no one will be saved who is not regenerated but the new birth is not the work or effort of men. It is a real birth and just as you had nothing to do with your physical birth, you have nothing to do with your physical birth. It is solely the result of the Holy Spirit--the agent in regeneration--working in your heart and life independently of man , which is why we say one is born again from above by the Holy Spirit. John 1:13 (read it) states explicitly that the new birth is not of the will of man: "Who were born (or born again) , not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but OF GOD." That is clear enough. Proof plenty. Unless you want to call the apostle John , writing under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, a liar.
@@raywinsor3948he gave the right to become children of God to the ones who believed. Doesn't say the ones who were picked from before the foundation of the world. Men do the believing and God does the saving.
Does not have to say that. Obviously, all who believe are the elect or chosen of God (see Acts 13:48; John 10: 6:37, 65; John 10: 26, 27-29), unless you can show me from scripture where a true believer is not elect or chosen.
@@brucegolston6507
Really? Neither the Bible, especially Ephesians 1:13, nor Calvinist say any such thing. Ephesians 1:13 states a plain, biblical truth; namely , that one who hears the Gospel must trust Christ to be saved but such a believing/trusting response is not possible without regeneration , because unregenerate sinners cannot open their own spiritually dead, blind and unbelieving hearts. And remember that regeneration/new birth , which is the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit independent of man and believing can occur simultaneously; that is , at the same time in much the same way water flows (Effect) immediately when you turn the handle on the faucet (Cause), so when the Holy Spirit gives spiritual life and moral ability to a sinner (Cause), so immediately the water of eternal life Effect) flows in the heart of that person. But because regeneration or new birth and believing can take place simultaneously, regeneration being the Cause and saving faith or believing the Effect in salvation , Ephesians 1:13 is not contracting biblical truth that regeneration is necessary for believing --and because sealing with the Holy Spirit is not possible without regeneration; therefore, sealing by the Holy Spirit from this perspective can follow believing. Why? Because in this context , sealing with the Holy Spirit is a guarantee of the inheritance of the believer in Christ (see Ephesians 1:14; 2 Corinthians 1: 22 , but that does not alter the truth that an unregenerate sinner (without spiritual life and moral ability) cannot believe without regeneration/new birth, as scripture (1 Corinthians 2:14; John 6:44, 63, 65; etc. ) plainly shows (scripture interprets scripture)--that regeneration is the Cause of believing and not the other way around (believing is the Cause of regeneration).
How can James White be so popular? He is so puffed up and full of pride and never wrong about anything! He's got a diploma mill PhD and soaks up the adoration of people calling him Dr. White. It seems I can't watch two Christian videos in a row without either White, MacArthur or Peters making an appearance!
I mean carnal man really can't understand spiritual truth, unless they repent.
Kindred spirits are attracted to one another and encourage one another
This video is on point. It demonstrates why we should reject Calvinistic beliefs as they impact how we share the gospel.
Technical, frivolous arguments such as saying that you helped yourself by accepting what was freely made available to you ought to be beneath us all. What did that scuba diver do to merit the extra oxygen? NOTHING! Of course he can say he helped himself, but why doesn't he? Why doesn't he thank himself for saving himself? Why does he intuitively give thanks to the one who provided the life saving oxygen? Why does he exclaim, "you saved my life!" ? Why don't we go around thanking ourselves for accepting gifts instead of thanking the giver? Why do we intuit that we ought not claim credit and why is that intuition so strong that it seems never to cross the mind of the overwhelming majority of mankind until they get into a discussion about free will?
A better analogy is: i'm drowning and someone throws me a lifeline, I have to choose to grab the line and to hold on as i'm pulled to safety. I can choose to let go at any point or I can hold on until i'm rescued. I didn't save myself if I hold on, and it's not the rescuer's fault if I choose to let go and drown.
@@justaguy328 I've used almost that exact analogy.
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son, that WHOEVER BELIEVES in Him shall have everlasting life John 3:16
I am convinced james White is completely crazy 👌 beyond reason
At 12 minutes in... To Doug's raising the stake with O2 tank analogy perhaps one might see his raise and up the ante a bit: Jesus came to Doug in his desperate situation and offered him his own O2 tank knowing it will ensuring Jesus' death. Doug demands to pay $100 for the tank. Jesus advises that it is a gift and no payment can be made. Doug still refuses demanding he must earn it and does not trust this Jesus. Doug uses his brilliance to deduce that if he takes the tank he will be saving himself so he refuses the tank... Ref John 6:29.
Amazing raising of the stakes!!!!
Calvinists believe everything is depraved and therefore, they assume the gospel must be something beyond normal practicalities and that presumed depravity. Calvinists want you to believe in God through a humanist context. That why they can't give the gospel in a practical context. That's why I continually say that Calvinism and atheism are two sides to the same coin. They don't believe God is believable...unless He's extraordinary.
White has the most colorful sense of fashion somehow.
Sincerely, your analysis was absolutely fantastic. I myself am a Molinist, but I haven’t had strong feelings against Calvinism for a while. This analysis was brutal.
You’re an exceptionally clear and reasonable thinker. And I’ve seen many many of these types of channels, but I mean it. Terrific job.
Dude, thank you. Truly.
You did a great job. Bizarre for Doug to say that receiving oxygen is meritorious. I am sure you were tempted to say "Yeah, that would be stupid." 10:40
When our theology places are compassion and love for the lost above or ahead of God's, that's a problem!!
I remember a Calvinist I knew making the comment in an upbeat tone, “I wonder if babies go to hell.” At that moment the thought came to me, “Wow, we really do become like the God we believe in.”
Your edits are always amazing.
Thank you!
Can you review the Calvinist inti-Gospel that sye ten bruggencate told pinecreek in there discussion?
I know this is a very sober topic but I have to say, the edits are hilarious Warren 😁😁
Thank you! I try to incorporate humor as much as possible. I think it helps to keep things friendly, even when offering sharp criticism.
Good stuff. I was expecting you to use the clip of the Catholic lady who says James creates questions and problems that no one is arguing for. I think I saw that on the Catholic guys channel How to be a Christin about James white. It was funny if you haven't seen.
This video is incredible, I loved every second of it, and pray for Doug, who DOES have hope and DOES have access into the grace which every man may find salvation if he trusts in the work of Christ on the cross. I think Satan wants to create churches that don't prioritize evangelism (which is the slow, natural outcome of Calvinism and why it dies off every 20 years or so) and blames God as the root cause of all sin. Satan (and mankind) are just vessels through which God causes horrific sin according to Calvinists, so this drives unbelievers away from the churches and away from a loving Father. Calvinism is the perfect excuse for people like Doug to continue in their unbelief!
No disrespect to Doug but at around the 12 minute mark when he's arguing that we earn salvation because we made the smart choice or acted, it's the same argument that Calvinists make and it's demonstrably foolish. The FACT that without Christ going to the cross and being resurrected and God graciously offering that work to us as a gift we would not be saved proves that nothing we do in response to get that gift earns it. Whatever action we take, whatever smart decision we make, it's all irrelevant in the scope of earning, meriting, or working for our salvation when salvation is a work of God through Christ that without that our action, decision, etc. could not save us apart from it. Not even save us a little. It's not an intellectual argument and I'm often quite embarrassed that it's an argument made by Calvinists and also here by Doug as an atheist. A gift is a gift, period. Nothing we do with that gift either by receiving it or rejecting it changes the gift from being a gift.
@37:00 on calvinism, not only did God decree all of our desires, He also decreed all of our actions. He decrees the ends as well as the means, so it's also erroneous to point to the desires of men as if that means their actions weren't decreed.
Does God decree rape and murder??
@@marthabarletta1866 not according to scripture, no, but certainly he does according to the exhaustive divine determinism of calvinism.
One day I stopped interpreting divine revelation through the prism / prison of Augustinianism....
And what a day that was!
To know that there was a viable alternative... and not just a viable one, but a more classical, historical and Scripturally and logically coherent one.
It all started fitting together...
No more "problem passages" and Scriptural gymnastics to try and squeeze conclusions necessitated by my philosophical / traditional presuppositions!
I'm not Orthodox, but thank God for the Eastern Church's and those in the West which didn't / don't accept or idolise certain teachings of Augustine, and, to some degree, Anselm, Aquinas, and then the Reformers who put it all on steroids X Lol
Love that you are making this info accessible to Christians of all types (personally I will be received into Orthodoxy one day though)
Correct not every western Church is teaching this. Catholics and Lutherans are not calvinistic even though Calvinists always try to claim Luther as a calvinist. No....Luther certainly was very much not one. Even though Luther was an Ausgustinian monk
Man, I'm watching this over again. What a train wreck!!! It's very sad as well. Honestly it's tragic.
I lose brain cells every time I listen to Calvin’s logic. 😵💫😵💫 but Doug is like a little kid. He just draws its logical conclusion leaving the Calvis like a deer caught in the headlight. That is fun to watch.
Strict non-calvinist here.. I'm curious, how EXACTLY do you believe that we get saved aka get the Holy Spirit?
We hear the Gospel, consider it, believe and confess.
This is where prenevient grace comes in.
Prenevient grace (delivered through the Gospel) breaks Satan’s chains on the heart of the potential believer and allows them to choose or reject God freely, without regenerating them against their will.
Calvinists proudly present their evil god for all to see.
Should have also reminded him that he's also the one, by his own freewill, who dived down to the depth in which he needed the oxygen tank as well
Their hope of eternity is like crossing your fingers on Friday night while watching The Lottery numbers come out and pray. "please God, let me win?" Calvinists should have adopted the Daisy instead of the tulip, as their acronym, "he loves me, he loves me not"
excellent break down, showing the blatant non-sequitors of reformed ideology!
This popped up on my feed this AM. Probably because I am a Pine Creek sub. I am an atheist and really enjoyed the clip. I appreciate your sense of humor and willingness to engage respectfully with those who disagree. Kudos!
Speaking of disagreement, the idea that atheists are "rejecting" God is absurd. Usually Christians claim "we just want to sin". The thing is, there are so many version of Christianity why not just pick a version that approves of your morality? There is no social advantage to declare oneself an atheist. Certainly not in the bible belt where I live. If it turns out I am wrong and have to stand before Yaweh or Allah or some other omniscient God, both of us will know I have been honest about my position. If he chooses to throw me into a lake of fire there is nothing I can do to stop him. Bottom line is that if God is real then the Calvinists are correct. He knew I was destined for hell when he created me. Unless of course he decides to reveal himself to me before I die. Either way it's his call...
Thanks for the kind words.
I don't take the typical view you likely encounter... that you're either spiritually dead and blind and unable to believe, or you're living in some unrepentant sin. Could the latter be true? Sometimes, but I think many just default to this instead of actually engaging those who have questions or simply disagree. Rather, I think people more often than not simply lack information.
You'll note I'm an inclusivist who believes God judges all men rightly, based on their conscience.
For instance a man could operate out of the sincerity of his heart and yet be wrong. There was no malicious intent, so why punish him? Or a man could operate rightly, despite not affirming a specific set of propositions.
Jesus Himself seemed to elude to this standard of consideration at judgment when He said a man had 2 sons... one said he would obey the Father but refused... the other said he refused to obey, but went out and did as asked. Who then was the obedient son?
There are many non-Christians who deny Christ in principle yet obey His instruction. So I'm fine letting God sort it out.
I don't preach the Gospel believing simple affirmation of it is what saves. I preach it because I believe it's the power of God unto salvation... but also transformative in this life, freeing us from futility, fear and showing us purpose and love.
I don't hold to the neo-Platonist view of God as seen in Calvinism. Gid is who He said He is... not our conception of the "Greatest conceivable being". Thus you're not a necessary being and we're not eternally in the mind of God. Yet when He did determine to create you, He did so as a free agent capable of great things including loving Him and others. Fatalism is false and even now you're free.
@@IdolKiller I am not very familiar with Inclusivism. Are you saying that as long as I am doing my best to be a good father, husband, friend co-worker etc... I can still gain heaven despite not believing in Jesus?
Also, I don't believe in free will. Yes, we make decisions but the questions is, could we have decided differently? Whether we were created by God or natural causes we are what we were made to be imo...
@@baskeptic1161 I believe everyone will be judged based on the standard of their own conscience either condemning or excusing them and that Jesus desires none should perish and thus makes good judgments. Ultimately every knee will bow and confess but some who've never heard or believed before will do so gladly, while others will do so angrily and fearfully.
Check out Romans 2:14-16
Yeah, most Calvinists and atheists agree in denying freewill. I affirm it, provided one understand it isn't free of influence or some sort of super power.
@@IdolKiller I will give you the last word. I enjoyed the clip and our interaction. Looking forward to seeing more of your content.
@@baskeptic1161 thank you! Me too
James White basically said if you are talking to a non Christian PLEASE DON’T TELL THEM WHAT OUR VIEW IS!
Remember, in Calvinism God doesn't damn you because of your sins. Romans 9 shows that you are damned before you've ever done anything bad.
Such a wonderful video!
22:19 Dr. White says 'grace and mercy cannot be demanded" I think he should reconsider his presupposition... The writer of Hebrews encourages believers that they have 'right' standing to legitimately do something along these lines which is counterintuitive...
"16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need." Heb.4:16 kjv.
Usually, one would not go "boldly" in an effort to obtain that which is not deserved(grace/mercy)... but rather with 'hat in hand', simply hoping for the best.🤔 BUT, we are told to go BOLDLY to the throne of grace to obtain 'MERCY' in a time of need! As believers, it is by faith that we have a right to expect God to be gracious and merciful with an abundance of help towards us according to his riches in Glory. BECAUSE of our believe and position IN CHRIST. And, unlike Marxist theory, it is not a zero sum game... when God helps one, it is never at the expense of another.
Hebrews 4:16 was one of my mothers most loved verses. She always told anyone who would listen... and some who wouldn't still heard it anyway. 😊Having lived 99yrs on this earth, she went to be with Jesus in Glory. I put that verse on her tombstone. She still preaches that message of hope to anyone passing by to this day. I have no doubt it pleases her.
I'm a Christian, not a Calvinist. I appreciate your work. At the 8min mark, what was the Good News you offered the atheist? Why did you include confession & following as conditions to believing in Christ? Didn't the OT people confess their sins & followed God, to a fair extent possible, but still were called unfaithful & failed the covenant (Heb8:9)?
For an unsaved person, with so many sins many of which he may not be aware of or he may not want to leave & the daunting task of following God (of which even great saints in the OT didn't succeed), how could this be GOOD NEWS?
Isn't the Gospel as simple as Acts16:31?
The atheist just needs to know that Christ has finished all the required righteousness of God, on our behalf, & it's imputed to us if we believe.
If not we'll have to face God with our own righteousness.
Beautiful presentation! 😊
I've said it this way. Grace is the very fact that you have a plan of salvation to obey at all.
He seems to have incorporated the idea of annihilation from some where. The early church believed that people in hell would be perpetually dying. In a state of death
I really like the voice of your Bible audio speaker. Is it possible to download it
I’m very glad to have watched this. I’m a presup atheist that Abrahamic religion is the transition from statues and trinket Idol worship to invisible idol worship. Jesus is merely a Paul invention invisible idol worship. IdolKiller indeed, excellent art btw.
I really love the oxygen tank analogy he used It may be the best analogy I have ever heard. Great video
Hi, Jennifer. You don't need analogy of other people; just read first 5 books of old testament,by useing your logical God give you. You would know what maybe other don't want you to know. Let's all seek information about the God.
Not from people but from books. As God wants us to do so!
Is the background music the same the confessionals uses??
Gotta love Scourby laying down the scripture. Good stuff Warren
So awesome thanks
What an awesome video! Thanks Warren, God bless you!
Thank you for the kind words and encouragement!
@@IdolKiller I used to go to Church Apologia and I sat through many of James White's sermons and teachings. I had just come out of the watchtower and thought Calvinism was Christianity... let's just say I've learned a lot since then. Thanks to channels like yours and Leighton Flowers and so many others, it's showed me God's actual love for people and me.
Thanks again brother 👊🙂
@@jude3andlaura2 I'm commenting because RUclips doesn't let me like that comment as much as it deserves.
@@jude3andlaura2 I went to KH in Glendale and Prescott. Faded out in Denver. My sister Laura lives in Scottsdale. She got out of Watchtower in high school. Later converted to Reform Judaism.
@@cluny I'm glad you're out of the watchtower!! My channel has my testimony and some videos I've done talking to Jehovah's Witnesses, you might enjoy it. Thanks for reaching out 😃
Brother Warren. In the interview with Doug, you mentioned that you are a Christian Inclusivist. I lean towards Inclusivism myself. I was wondering if you have covered this topic in depth in any other video already. I'd like to have some more biblical support, scriptures, to base my position more confidently. Thanks, brother. God bless.
I need to dedicate an episode to this! Thanks for the suggestion
@@IdolKiller Thank you so much. God bless.
Nurse Comes to you in the hospital: "I'm here to tell you you are incapable of taking this medicine. It could heal you, but you are incapable of taking it."
Why?
"Because you would never want to take it no matter how sick you are"
"Then Why did you even bother to come into my room?"
"Just to remind you you can't take the medicine, just in case you get that evil little thought in your head that you MIGHT be able to, you know, heal"
This is the 2nd time I've watched this video, and that anti-evangelism is still shocking to me. Very sad indeed.
You did not have to do an "Honest Calvinist " show with this Calvinist. Just let him speak.
Receiving the tank underwater is not meritoious works.
Works = "Wages due" , according to Romans 4.
Also, having belief in God does not save you without Chriet.
As it is written, "If Christ has not been raised from the dead, your faith is worthless".
Yes, the work of Christ is central to the Gospel. Amen
@@IdolKiller - Strange, I thought I was a subscriber. Well, I'm a Subscriber again.
Great video.
@@primeobjective5469 thanks! I've heard YT sometimes randomly deletes subscribers. Glad to have you back!
Wow!! With this type a video 📹 God just makes me reject more calvinism and more.
Such a good video. Ill be sharing this out alot
I just had an epiphany that there was another group that claimed they were glorifying God by adding to Scripture. I believe their name began with P, and (quite appropriately) rhymes with HERESIES.
26:05 “James is upset Doug is so obedient to the will of God” 😂😂 made me chuckle. You really do just have to throw up your hands and laugh sometimes at the insanity and endless contradictions within Calvinism.
I don’t know much about your doctrinal beliefs, but rejecting the heresy of Calvinism is a good thing, for sure. I was raised UPC and I’m still a Jesus name Christian but have some doubts about the doctrine that is taught by that organization and several others. They seem so determined to destine people to hell and Jesus pointed out that “If you, being sinful know how to give your children good gifts, how much more will your Heavenly Father do for you?” I’m not better than God, I know that without a doubt, but even I being a forgiven sinner wouldn’t sentence any sinner to eternal torture, no matter what their sins were. It’s called in Revelation “The second death”. Not “The second eternal torture”. I lean toward “eternal” destruction, meaning once people are judged and cast into the lake of fire, they will be destroyed and never seen or heard from again. There will indeed be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth when these realize they will be utterly destroyed and have no eternal life, then get thrown into that horrible death. God have mercy on us to receive your gift of eternal life and not suffer the second death.
When you believe you have an immortal soul, “death” doesn’t really mean death, “life” doesn’t really mean life. Your brain has to redefine these words to accommodate your Platonic lens. The amazing thing is how coherent the scriptures become when you remove the filters of post NT tradition.
I appreciate this channel
Thanks so much!
It is always so amazing and instructive how many words Calvinists like James White need to use in order to try. and explain their version of theology. It really is a form of gaslighting in which you end up somewhere inside of a concentric circle wondering what in the world he is trying to talk about.
The gospel is indeed good news and it is not complicated. Even a child can understand it. But the likes of James White cannot.
Sad and tragic exchange:
Atheist: “Every person who is in hell right now is there because of something God did not do”.
Calvinist: “Correct”.
Atheist: “I don’t know how you sleep at night believing that.”
This is one of your best videos Warren, thanks
Pride is the number one sin keeping us from Salvation.
God's Spirit is always searching for anyone with a heart willing to accept the truth, and when the truth of the gospel is presented to that person , who the Lord has brought to that place of accepting and believing and confessing
, they are saved.
So The Father draws the person to the Son, and the person repents in belief and is saved.
Personally, I would have a hard time to do presupp-apologetics when atheists are informed about calvinistic theology. I mean, how? ... Great points made.
The issue is really what guys like JW mean by "think presuppositionally"... they mean default to Calvinism, not Christianity. As Christians entering such a debate, we all presuppose Christianity to be true... but the problem arises when wisdom, reason & logic are seen as adversarial to the faith. That's a sign of a real problem
Warren - I really appreciate the spirit in which you answered Doug - with gentleness and love...
A third approach does exist - and it is grounded in scripture and a theological perspective of such Church Fathers as Gregory of Nyssa:
Combine the best of Calvinism with the best of Arminianism - i.e. Sovereignty and Love: God is not willing that any should perish (instead He "desires that all men be saved") - (therefore?) Every knee WILL bow and every tongue WILL confess that 'Jesus is Lord' (the Gospel!) to the Glory of God the Father. Or, as Isaiah has it, "Every tongue will swear allegiance".
God will not force us "against our will" - but will speak to that which is the deepest Truth of our being (deeper than the truth of our being sinners): we are made (good!) in His Image - and the false Idol (which you expose so well!) of "Total Depravity" cannot overtake this Truth (which is closer to true Pelagianism than most realize - but that you, once again, have helped wonderfully to clarify).
Apart from this sovereign intervention we would indeed perish - for we have been (apart from any choice we initially made) taken captive by Satan - our minds blinded - so that we do "his will".
We get a sense of this sovereign act and ability in Romans 11:26 "in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.""
God sent His son NOT to condemn the world He "so loved" - but so that it might be saved... The Son (THE Word) was sent to accomplish a purpose:
"so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it."
THIS is the unconditional GOOD News to which we must (and will) respond:
"BEHOLD the Lamb of God - who takes away the sin of the world!"