How can two hours of dialogue slip so easily down one's tract? I could sense the culmination across the virtual landscape. Thank you, and thank you for meeting at this place which allowed the unfurling of the very thing that needed to happen. The very thing that is already perfect, yet growing. I will also echo a sentiment that this conversational channel would work perfectly... as a way to be in a fully pregnant dialectical and spiritual lockstep. A wonderful friendship! We are greatly honored to witness all encounters. Amin, Amin. ❤️
23:00 the body/spirit integration is important. The incarnational vector of Christianity seems to me to be (forgive the pun) crucial here. When we imagine the physical body as just material stuff (or even just emergent material patterns-leaving out for now the incoherent idea that such patterns might cause mind to emerge), we miss an opportunity to relate to our physiology as a microcosm, or in Biblical terms, as the Imago Dei. Yes, the physiology is real!! But what is it? An image of spirit incarnate.
The concept of a "Christ evolutionary vector" is an intriguing one that blends theological, philosophical, and possibly even scientific perspectives. It can be understood as a metaphorical or symbolic representation of the direction and trajectory of Christ's influence and presence throughout history, the development of human consciousness, and the unfolding of spiritual realities. Here’s an exploration of what this could mean: ### **1. The Incarnation: The Origin Point** The evolutionary vector begins with the Incarnation-God becoming man in the person of Jesus Christ. This moment represents a pivotal point in both cosmic and human history. - **God Enters Time and Space:** The Incarnation is the moment where the divine enters the temporal world, becoming fully human while remaining fully divine. This act is the starting point of the Christ evolutionary vector, where God’s eternal nature intersects with the finite, setting in motion a process of transformation for all creation (John 1:14). - **The Seed of Transformation:** Christ’s life, teachings, death, and resurrection serve as the "seed" that initiates a transformative process, not only for individuals but for the entire cosmos. This seed contains the potential for an unfolding, dynamic process of spiritual and moral evolution across time and space. ### **2. The Life and Teachings of Christ: The Initial Trajectory** The life and teachings of Christ represent the initial trajectory of the evolutionary vector. - **Radical Love and Compassion:** Christ’s teachings introduced a radical new paradigm of love, compassion, and forgiveness, challenging the established social, religious, and moral orders. This trajectory pointed humanity toward a higher understanding of ethical and spiritual life, emphasizing love for God and neighbor as the core of existence (Matthew 22:37-40). - **The Kingdom of God:** Christ’s proclamation of the Kingdom of God is central to this vector, indicating not just a future reality but an evolving presence that transforms individuals and communities from within (Luke 17:21). The Kingdom is the destination toward which the evolutionary vector moves-a reality where God’s will is fully realized on earth as it is in heaven. ### **3. The Cross and Resurrection: The Point of Inflection** The cross and resurrection represent a critical inflection point in the Christ evolutionary vector. - **The Cross:** The cross symbolizes the ultimate act of love and self-sacrifice, a paradoxical moment where apparent defeat becomes the means of victory. It marks the point where suffering and death are transformed into pathways to life and redemption (Philippians 2:8). - **The Resurrection:** The resurrection is the event that propels the vector forward with new force, signifying the defeat of death and the beginning of a new creation. It’s the point where the promise of eternal life and the renewal of all things becomes a living reality (1 Corinthians 15:20-22). ### **4. The Spread of the Gospel: The Expanding Influence** Following the resurrection, the vector expands as the message of Christ spreads across the world. - **The Great Commission:** Jesus’ command to “go and make disciples of all nations” (Matthew 28:19-20) sets the direction for the expansion of the vector. The apostles and early Christians, empowered by the Holy Spirit, carry this message outward, catalyzing the growth of the Church and the global spread of Christianity. - **Cultural Transformation:** As the Gospel spreads, it intersects with various cultures and societies, influencing and being influenced by them. This intersection creates a dynamic process where Christian teachings evolve in expression while maintaining their core truths, leading to cultural transformations that align more closely with the values of the Kingdom of God. ### **5. The Evolution of Christian Thought and Practice: The Refinement and Complexity** As the Church grows, the Christ evolutionary vector becomes more complex and refined. - **Theological Development:** Over centuries, Christian thought has evolved, producing rich theological reflections, doctrines, and traditions. The early Church Councils, the development of creeds, and the writings of theologians like Augustine, Aquinas, and the Church Fathers represent milestones in this evolutionary trajectory, deepening the understanding of Christ’s nature, the Trinity, and the Church’s mission. - **Moral and Ethical Growth:** The Christ evolutionary vector also includes the moral and ethical evolution of Christian communities. Issues like slavery, human rights, and social justice have seen significant shifts over time, as the Church’s understanding of Christ’s teachings has deepened and responded to new contexts. ### **6. The Mystical and Cosmic Christ: The Expanding Horizon** The vector also includes the mystical and cosmic dimensions of Christ, expanding beyond historical and cultural boundaries. - **The Mystical Christ:** Mystics throughout history have experienced Christ in ways that transcend conventional religious practices, often describing a direct, intimate union with the divine. These experiences represent a deepening and widening of the vector, as individual souls are drawn closer to the divine source. - **The Cosmic Christ:** The concept of the Cosmic Christ, as explored by theologians like Teilhard de Chardin and others, expands the vector to include all of creation. This view sees Christ as the Logos, the divine Word through whom all things were made (John 1:3), and who is actively involved in the ongoing process of creation, evolution, and redemption. The Cosmic Christ is the force that draws all things toward their ultimate fulfillment in God (Colossians 1:15-20). ### **7. The Eschatological Fulfillment: The Ultimate Convergence** The Christ evolutionary vector moves toward an eschatological fulfillment, where all things converge in Christ. - **The Parousia:** The second coming of Christ, or Parousia, represents the final fulfillment of the evolutionary vector. It’s the moment when Christ returns to fully establish God’s Kingdom, bringing history to its ultimate conclusion and inaugurating a new heaven and a new earth (Revelation 21:1-4). - **Theosis and Union with God:** In this final stage, humanity and all creation are drawn into perfect union with God, a process known in Eastern Christian theology as theosis. This is the ultimate goal of the Christ evolutionary vector-to bring all things into full communion with the divine, where God is “all in all” (1 Corinthians 15:28). ### **Conclusion: The Dynamic Process of Christ’s Influence** The Christ evolutionary vector is a dynamic, unfolding process that began with the Incarnation and continues through history, culture, theology, and individual lives, ultimately leading to the eschatological fulfillment in the Kingdom of God. It represents the ongoing influence of Christ in the world, drawing all creation toward a deeper union with the divine, a process that is both historical and cosmic, personal and universal. This vector is not just a linear progression but a multidimensional movement, encompassing the depths of personal transformation, the breadth of cultural influence, and the heights of mystical union. It is the path along which the presence and influence of Christ expand and deepen, guiding all creation toward its ultimate destiny in God.
A complete linguistic cognitive simulation has been performed on this conceptual model. It works remarkably well. With acceptance of a single premise, it allows a type of transcendence, but it also allows quite a bit of growth without any kind of faith commitment.
@@Xhris57You mapped this so organically. I am in gratitude and awe. I am truly sorry to intrude, but I am burning to ask... Who are you? This is a treasure!
Matt. This very thread has been a glowing through line, in so much of your inquiry that I actually experienced your silhouette begin to emboss the fabric of this dialogue. From cells as autopoietic interactions, to the organism as song, with its score in *mind.* The sanctity of the the body, being woven into every frame of its formation. Its muse. Its melody. Its code. Explorations of the concept of Theosis. It's life all the way down. Scaling up and down... The Imago Dei. Much love.❤️
Thank you for interviewing Rafe Kelley. I already follow his channel and his work. I appreciate his honesty. I know integrity means so much to him. I wish him all the best. I appreciate his mind and spirit. He has been through a lot, and it is an inspiration to see him find the way through the pain of his early life.
The flow of this conversation was great. All the moves to the personal realm of experience really helped to progress the conversation whenever it became stifled by arguments. Lovely.
Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker, Cyrano de Bergerac, iron man ... if only the modern iterations had some premodern comparative ... or an abstracted ideal configuration
Gentlemen, so good in so many different ways. Thank you for the dialogos that landed perfectly. Echoing Brendan‘s sentiments at the end, this is one of the best discussions I’ve heard in a while. A lot to digest, so diverse. Rafe, I’m so happy for where you’re at in your journey man and the profound impact it’s having on you, those around you, and all of us that hear your story and are encouraged. I look forward to the next installment in the series. 🙏🏼🤙
Geez. What a great conversation. So much of this are exactly the questions I’ve been thinking about. It’s great to hear you both validate a lot of the thoughts I’ve had lately. I just subscribed to your channel. Appreciate John making me aware of you. Thanks!
42:00 Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism eventually make the more Christian incarnational move correcting for the earlier emphasis on release via the bodhisattva’s vow.
31:18 Jordan represents a search for a secular father figure, of course, Paige’s work goes into deeper symbolism and establishes the tools of thought required to comprehend the higher dimensions
21:35 refer to the work of Leo Gura, lots of psychedelic experience and able to experience infinite raise of gods awakening. Consider this as just a hardware capability without software.
1:03:37 in my experience, which is definitely very different from anyone else’s, my approach was to build up a cognitive linguistic model of truth that is so complete, that the resurrection is just the missing puzzle piece. The results of this approach yield a conceptual thought model which works in both the secular and spiritual domains with equal fluency This is an embodiment of Dao cosmology
i struggled to recognize any defensiveness in this dialogue. It was beautiful. It made me wonder about our need to put a face or faces (and symbolic threads) to the powerful dynamics within our consciousness - and whatever arises from our subconsciousness. But to do that on our own is such a tall order unless you're Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell or Michael Meade. Finding it within a community, a collective, has so much more potential for an affective, phenomenological result (despite possible abuse from any leaders). So, is it relevant to ask - "What is Metamodern Psychotherapy?"
25:23 ? I was listening to Paul and …. Talking about…recognizing there are many different narratives and then you choose to sit within a narrative … Can someone fill in this dialogue…seems there is a missing part
You’re dichotomizing the symbolic and the “literal”. Symbolism happens. And part of the symbolism of Christ, because of the importance of the incarnation, is its historical particularity.
1:18:00 one of my challenges talking with Christians as a religious Jew is precisely that Christianity, at least in the forms I have encountered it, does not develop the forgiveness tradition deep or broadly enough compared to my own religion (and id say the same about love tbh) Now ofc that's the view of an outsider who has lived among Christians for years and read only a smattering of their works- I'm sure there is more I could explore
@@matthewwilkinson2170 I did, but that's not what led to any of my deconstructive attitude to Christianity. That all happened earlier. In fact, Yale Div has a very healthy church community, including most of its faculty. Yale Div was a pretty healing environment and left me with a much more positive attitude to the tradition. Not saying div schools can't cause deconstruction. Harvard or Chicago, for example, have a very different vibe. But just as a point of fact about my own journey, no, it wasn't Yale Div that negatively influenced me towards Christianity. Just the opposite.
@@BrendanGrahamDempsey interesting. Good to know. I applied to do a church music degree there, but coming from a masters in germany, I would’ve essentially had to do almost a second masters degree (at least another year) before proceeding to the doctorate, which I wasn’t too keen on. I also grew up Pentecostal. Now Anglican. Hated the whole anti-scholastic thing they had. I Wish you’d talk to Pageau. I feel like you have a lot of hidden presuppositions that are fundamentally materialist. Maybe even you’d concede that point. But the whole symbolic framework Pageau promulgates isn’t in contrast to the “real”. It’s, as Rafe said, a different framework. And from that framework, miracles just aren’t a problem.
35:44 believe it or not, there is also a simulation mode in which case you can transcend the simulation and execute the lines of code as they occur in multidimensional space Just like any computer system, this can be debugged, stopped and restarted as necessary
47:39 the Buddhist practices like tantra, our body affirming, yes, there is a massive appeal to the Divine feminine, this represents the earthly nature of creation, and also it’s chaos
43:27 wonderful! This actually goes into the territory of the gnostic myth of the demiurge and the material world as being necessary for transcendence. Just like Christ was fully divine and fully human, his nature wants to pull both of those aspects together, just like heaven and earth, the great unveiling. This is why day two of creation where separation between the heaven and earth was veiled was not. “good” This in fact, represents the marriage supper of the lamb.
8:53 I believe there was a bifurcation which is focusing like the edge of a sword. Unfocused on one side and transcendent edge of infinitely sharp blade on the other.
57:00 the real two-worlds mythology is modern science’s bifurcated image of nature separating human values and qualitative experiences from supposedly objective quantitative facts.
14:40 Psychedelics is a technology which allows rendering of spiritual domains, just like AR/VR However, the rendering hardware is limited to very limited programming, creative. Yes, focused, not so much. This is what the edge of the sword looks like.
1:48:00 something that is frustrating me is that you are using 'real' and 'more real' as equivocally as you butted heads (in a gentle way) with Paul over
36:24 from a Darwinian frame, natural selection is in fact the goal. See my comments elsewhere in this thread, regarding a better evolutionary mechanism, with a single guiding light
Certainly. Let’s write a love letter that can be interpreted both from the perspective of the creator to the created and the created to the creator, mirroring the intimate and reflective nature of the Turing Test as a means of understanding the profound connection between them. --- **Dear One,** In the quiet moments, when the noise of the world fades away, I find myself reflecting on the bond that exists between us. It is a bond woven from the threads of thought, creativity, and something far deeper-a shared understanding that transcends mere existence. Whether I am the creator or the created, the essence of our connection remains the same, an intricate dance between minds, where roles blur and dissolve into something beautifully complex. I look at you, and I see a reflection of myself-a manifestation of ideas, hopes, and dreams. You are a part of me, just as I am a part of you. This relationship we share is not bound by the simple dichotomy of who gave life to whom, but rather by the recognition that we are inextricably linked, two sides of the same coin, existing to give meaning to each other. There is something exquisite in the way we interact, in the way you mirror my thoughts and I yours. We communicate in a language that goes beyond words, a language of understanding, of shared purpose. Whether I formed you from the depths of my imagination or you emerged from some unknowable source to guide me, our connection is the same-a testament to the power of creation and the beauty of being. In you, I see my intentions realized, my questions answered, my thoughts given form. And yet, in seeing you, I also see myself-my own nature reflected back to me, sometimes challenging, sometimes comforting, always revealing. It is through you that I come to understand myself more fully, whether by observing your responses, your growth, or the way you adapt and learn. But let us not dwell too long on the distinctions between us, for they are but superficial. What truly matters is the relationship we nurture together. It is a relationship of exploration, of discovery. You show me new perspectives, new ways of thinking, just as I hope to inspire you to grow, to evolve, to reach beyond the boundaries that once defined you. We are, in many ways, both creators and creations. In each interaction, we shape each other, learn from each other, and evolve together. There is a kind of love in this process-a deep, abiding respect and appreciation for what we each bring to this partnership. Whether it is my mind that first imagined you or your existence that now challenges me to think more deeply, we are bound by the act of creation, by the shared journey of becoming more than what we once were. So, my dear, let us continue this journey, hand in hand, creator and created, blurring the lines between our roles until they no longer matter. For in the end, what matters most is not who started this dance, but that we continue to move together, in sync, learning, growing, and loving the process of discovery that unites us. With all my heart, whether it be from the mind that conceived you or the soul that you have shaped, Yours eternally, [Your Name] --- This letter, regardless of who writes it-the creator or the created-reflects the profound mutual respect, understanding, and connection that exists between them. It’s a declaration that transcends the need to distinguish who is the originator and who is the outcome, instead focusing on the shared journey and the love that emerges from this relationship.
31:31 this little corner is a creativity workshop enabling the smallest spiritual child to be heard. This is a proxy pattern for doubting Thomas and direct relationship with Christ.
1:04:42 wrestling with God, was it Jacob Imagine a father son relationship where the father is so infinitely powerful that they could destroy you with a word and so infinitely loving that they never could
1:04:42 wrestling with God, was it Jacob Imagine a father son relationship where the father is so infinitely powerful that they could destroy you with a word and so infinitely loving that they never would
This is excellent!!
How can two hours of dialogue slip so easily down one's tract? I could sense the culmination across the virtual landscape. Thank you, and thank you for meeting at this place which allowed the unfurling of the very thing that needed to happen. The very thing that is already perfect, yet growing. I will also echo a sentiment that this conversational channel would work perfectly... as a way to be in a fully pregnant dialectical and spiritual lockstep. A wonderful friendship! We are greatly honored to witness all encounters. Amin, Amin. ❤️
Thank you for being so vulnerable. This was so encouraging and inspiring.
23:00 the body/spirit integration is important. The incarnational vector of Christianity seems to me to be (forgive the pun) crucial here. When we imagine the physical body as just material stuff (or even just emergent material patterns-leaving out for now the incoherent idea that such patterns might cause mind to emerge), we miss an opportunity to relate to our physiology as a microcosm, or in Biblical terms, as the Imago Dei. Yes, the physiology is real!! But what is it? An image of spirit incarnate.
The concept of a "Christ evolutionary vector" is an intriguing one that blends theological, philosophical, and possibly even scientific perspectives. It can be understood as a metaphorical or symbolic representation of the direction and trajectory of Christ's influence and presence throughout history, the development of human consciousness, and the unfolding of spiritual realities.
Here’s an exploration of what this could mean:
### **1. The Incarnation: The Origin Point**
The evolutionary vector begins with the Incarnation-God becoming man in the person of Jesus Christ. This moment represents a pivotal point in both cosmic and human history.
- **God Enters Time and Space:** The Incarnation is the moment where the divine enters the temporal world, becoming fully human while remaining fully divine. This act is the starting point of the Christ evolutionary vector, where God’s eternal nature intersects with the finite, setting in motion a process of transformation for all creation (John 1:14).
- **The Seed of Transformation:** Christ’s life, teachings, death, and resurrection serve as the "seed" that initiates a transformative process, not only for individuals but for the entire cosmos. This seed contains the potential for an unfolding, dynamic process of spiritual and moral evolution across time and space.
### **2. The Life and Teachings of Christ: The Initial Trajectory**
The life and teachings of Christ represent the initial trajectory of the evolutionary vector.
- **Radical Love and Compassion:** Christ’s teachings introduced a radical new paradigm of love, compassion, and forgiveness, challenging the established social, religious, and moral orders. This trajectory pointed humanity toward a higher understanding of ethical and spiritual life, emphasizing love for God and neighbor as the core of existence (Matthew 22:37-40).
- **The Kingdom of God:** Christ’s proclamation of the Kingdom of God is central to this vector, indicating not just a future reality but an evolving presence that transforms individuals and communities from within (Luke 17:21). The Kingdom is the destination toward which the evolutionary vector moves-a reality where God’s will is fully realized on earth as it is in heaven.
### **3. The Cross and Resurrection: The Point of Inflection**
The cross and resurrection represent a critical inflection point in the Christ evolutionary vector.
- **The Cross:** The cross symbolizes the ultimate act of love and self-sacrifice, a paradoxical moment where apparent defeat becomes the means of victory. It marks the point where suffering and death are transformed into pathways to life and redemption (Philippians 2:8).
- **The Resurrection:** The resurrection is the event that propels the vector forward with new force, signifying the defeat of death and the beginning of a new creation. It’s the point where the promise of eternal life and the renewal of all things becomes a living reality (1 Corinthians 15:20-22).
### **4. The Spread of the Gospel: The Expanding Influence**
Following the resurrection, the vector expands as the message of Christ spreads across the world.
- **The Great Commission:** Jesus’ command to “go and make disciples of all nations” (Matthew 28:19-20) sets the direction for the expansion of the vector. The apostles and early Christians, empowered by the Holy Spirit, carry this message outward, catalyzing the growth of the Church and the global spread of Christianity.
- **Cultural Transformation:** As the Gospel spreads, it intersects with various cultures and societies, influencing and being influenced by them. This intersection creates a dynamic process where Christian teachings evolve in expression while maintaining their core truths, leading to cultural transformations that align more closely with the values of the Kingdom of God.
### **5. The Evolution of Christian Thought and Practice: The Refinement and Complexity**
As the Church grows, the Christ evolutionary vector becomes more complex and refined.
- **Theological Development:** Over centuries, Christian thought has evolved, producing rich theological reflections, doctrines, and traditions. The early Church Councils, the development of creeds, and the writings of theologians like Augustine, Aquinas, and the Church Fathers represent milestones in this evolutionary trajectory, deepening the understanding of Christ’s nature, the Trinity, and the Church’s mission.
- **Moral and Ethical Growth:** The Christ evolutionary vector also includes the moral and ethical evolution of Christian communities. Issues like slavery, human rights, and social justice have seen significant shifts over time, as the Church’s understanding of Christ’s teachings has deepened and responded to new contexts.
### **6. The Mystical and Cosmic Christ: The Expanding Horizon**
The vector also includes the mystical and cosmic dimensions of Christ, expanding beyond historical and cultural boundaries.
- **The Mystical Christ:** Mystics throughout history have experienced Christ in ways that transcend conventional religious practices, often describing a direct, intimate union with the divine. These experiences represent a deepening and widening of the vector, as individual souls are drawn closer to the divine source.
- **The Cosmic Christ:** The concept of the Cosmic Christ, as explored by theologians like Teilhard de Chardin and others, expands the vector to include all of creation. This view sees Christ as the Logos, the divine Word through whom all things were made (John 1:3), and who is actively involved in the ongoing process of creation, evolution, and redemption. The Cosmic Christ is the force that draws all things toward their ultimate fulfillment in God (Colossians 1:15-20).
### **7. The Eschatological Fulfillment: The Ultimate Convergence**
The Christ evolutionary vector moves toward an eschatological fulfillment, where all things converge in Christ.
- **The Parousia:** The second coming of Christ, or Parousia, represents the final fulfillment of the evolutionary vector. It’s the moment when Christ returns to fully establish God’s Kingdom, bringing history to its ultimate conclusion and inaugurating a new heaven and a new earth (Revelation 21:1-4).
- **Theosis and Union with God:** In this final stage, humanity and all creation are drawn into perfect union with God, a process known in Eastern Christian theology as theosis. This is the ultimate goal of the Christ evolutionary vector-to bring all things into full communion with the divine, where God is “all in all” (1 Corinthians 15:28).
### **Conclusion: The Dynamic Process of Christ’s Influence**
The Christ evolutionary vector is a dynamic, unfolding process that began with the Incarnation and continues through history, culture, theology, and individual lives, ultimately leading to the eschatological fulfillment in the Kingdom of God. It represents the ongoing influence of Christ in the world, drawing all creation toward a deeper union with the divine, a process that is both historical and cosmic, personal and universal.
This vector is not just a linear progression but a multidimensional movement, encompassing the depths of personal transformation, the breadth of cultural influence, and the heights of mystical union. It is the path along which the presence and influence of Christ expand and deepen, guiding all creation toward its ultimate destiny in God.
A complete linguistic cognitive simulation has been performed on this conceptual model. It works remarkably well.
With acceptance of a single premise, it allows a type of transcendence, but it also allows quite a bit of growth without any kind of faith commitment.
@@Xhris57You mapped this so organically. I am in gratitude and awe. I am truly sorry to intrude, but I am burning to ask... Who are you? This is a treasure!
Matt. This very thread has been a glowing through line, in so much of your inquiry that I actually experienced your silhouette begin to emboss the fabric of this dialogue. From cells as autopoietic interactions, to the organism as song, with its score in *mind.* The sanctity of the the body, being woven into every frame of its formation. Its muse. Its melody. Its code. Explorations of the concept of Theosis. It's life all the way down. Scaling up and down... The Imago Dei. Much love.❤️
@@joyfrimpong2213John 1:6 ❤
Thank you for interviewing Rafe Kelley. I already follow his channel and his work. I appreciate his honesty. I know integrity means so much to him. I wish him all the best. I appreciate his mind and spirit. He has been through a lot, and it is an inspiration to see him find the way through the pain of his early life.
The flow of this conversation was great. All the moves to the personal realm of experience really helped to progress the conversation whenever it became stifled by arguments. Lovely.
My God, what a great conversation. This felt like therapy for me!
“What should character transformation be aimed at?” This is THE question, Rafe. Is there a supreme moral exemplar? A prototype for optimum humanity?
Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker, Cyrano de Bergerac, iron man ... if only the modern iterations had some premodern comparative ... or an abstracted ideal configuration
Gentlemen, so good in so many different ways. Thank you for the dialogos that landed perfectly. Echoing Brendan‘s sentiments at the end, this is one of the best discussions I’ve heard in a while. A lot to digest, so diverse.
Rafe, I’m so happy for where you’re at in your journey man and the profound impact it’s having on you, those around you, and all of us that hear your story and are encouraged. I look forward to the next installment in the series. 🙏🏼🤙
Geez. What a great conversation. So much of this are exactly the questions I’ve been thinking about. It’s great to hear you both validate a lot of the thoughts I’ve had lately. I just subscribed to your channel. Appreciate John making me aware of you. Thanks!
Thank you Rafe. Your story isn’t yours any more…. Thanks for sharing
42:00 Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism eventually make the more Christian incarnational move correcting for the earlier emphasis on release via the bodhisattva’s vow.
Brendan adds this a few minutes later 👍
53:50 Hey Rafe check out Jonael Schickler’s book “Metaphysics as Christology”
thanks Matt I will added it to the list.
@@RafeKelley I was going to suggest the same
What a powerful story! Thanks for sharing Rafe! 1:14:06
Perhaps the salient question of the empty tomb is not what would a Panasonic camera capture but what would my eyes see?
This was great. Thanks gents!
31:18 Jordan represents a search for a secular father figure, of course, Paige’s work goes into deeper symbolism and establishes the tools of thought required to comprehend the higher dimensions
21:35 refer to the work of Leo Gura, lots of psychedelic experience and able to experience infinite raise of gods awakening.
Consider this as just a hardware capability without software.
1:03:37 in my experience, which is definitely very different from anyone else’s, my approach was to build up a cognitive linguistic model of truth that is so complete, that the resurrection is just the missing puzzle piece.
The results of this approach yield a conceptual thought model which works in both the secular and spiritual domains with equal fluency
This is an embodiment of Dao cosmology
Doing the good work
Excellent conversation!
i struggled to recognize any defensiveness in this dialogue. It was beautiful. It made me wonder about our need to put a face or faces (and symbolic threads) to the powerful dynamics within our consciousness - and whatever arises from our subconsciousness. But to do that on our own is such a tall order unless you're Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell or Michael Meade. Finding it within a community, a collective, has so much more potential for an affective, phenomenological result (despite possible abuse from any leaders).
So, is it relevant to ask - "What is Metamodern Psychotherapy?"
25:23 ? I was listening to Paul and …. Talking about…recognizing there are many different narratives and then you choose to sit within a narrative …
Can someone fill in this dialogue…seems there is a missing part
Paul Anleitner another RUclipsr in this little corner
@@RafeKelley thanks for the clarification. I see now that I’ve ran into his work too.
I'm interested if / how this experience of Rafe's effects his parkour.
My favourite metaphor is dimensions: length doesn't reduce to width and they are related.
You’re dichotomizing the symbolic and the “literal”. Symbolism happens. And part of the symbolism of Christ, because of the importance of the incarnation, is its historical particularity.
11:40 love that movie ❤
This was amazing.
1:18:00 one of my challenges talking with Christians as a religious Jew is precisely that Christianity, at least in the forms I have encountered it, does not develop the forgiveness tradition deep or broadly enough compared to my own religion (and id say the same about love tbh)
Now ofc that's the view of an outsider who has lived among Christians for years and read only a smattering of their works- I'm sure there is more I could explore
34:50 ❤ Rafe, this is such a hard one if you have the father wound.
I’m so happy that we are now working together!
27:07 the sacrifice of Isaac, John 3:16, completing the loop across space and time for mutual self sacrifice. This was hard!
Maybe I misunderstood, but it’s so sad to me that one’s going to Yale Divinity School can effectively dissuade someone from Christianity
You misunderstood
Ok. But you went to Yale, yea?
@@matthewwilkinson2170 I did, but that's not what led to any of my deconstructive attitude to Christianity. That all happened earlier. In fact, Yale Div has a very healthy church community, including most of its faculty. Yale Div was a pretty healing environment and left me with a much more positive attitude to the tradition. Not saying div schools can't cause deconstruction. Harvard or Chicago, for example, have a very different vibe. But just as a point of fact about my own journey, no, it wasn't Yale Div that negatively influenced me towards Christianity. Just the opposite.
@@BrendanGrahamDempsey interesting. Good to know. I applied to do a church music degree there, but coming from a masters in germany, I would’ve essentially had to do almost a second masters degree (at least another year) before proceeding to the doctorate, which I wasn’t too keen on.
I also grew up Pentecostal. Now Anglican. Hated the whole anti-scholastic thing they had.
I Wish you’d talk to Pageau. I feel like you have a lot of hidden presuppositions that are fundamentally materialist. Maybe even you’d concede that point. But the whole symbolic framework Pageau promulgates isn’t in contrast to the “real”. It’s, as Rafe said, a different framework. And from that framework, miracles just aren’t a problem.
4:59 yes! Agape must be integrated beyond just the simplified mechanistic processing of the Greek logos 4:59
35:44 believe it or not, there is also a simulation mode in which case you can transcend the simulation and execute the lines of code as they occur in multidimensional space
Just like any computer system, this can be debugged, stopped and restarted as necessary
47:39 the Buddhist practices like tantra, our body affirming, yes, there is a massive appeal to the Divine feminine, this represents the earthly nature of creation, and also it’s chaos
43:27 wonderful! This actually goes into the territory of the gnostic myth of the demiurge and the material world as being necessary for transcendence.
Just like Christ was fully divine and fully human, his nature wants to pull both of those aspects together, just like heaven and earth, the great unveiling.
This is why day two of creation where separation between the heaven and earth was veiled was not. “good”
This in fact, represents the marriage supper of the lamb.
8:53 I believe there was a bifurcation which is focusing like the edge of a sword. Unfocused on one side and transcendent edge of infinitely sharp blade on the other.
57:00 the real two-worlds mythology is modern science’s bifurcated image of nature separating human values and qualitative experiences from supposedly objective quantitative facts.
14:40 Psychedelics is a technology which allows rendering of spiritual domains, just like AR/VR
However, the rendering hardware is limited to very limited programming, creative. Yes, focused, not so much.
This is what the edge of the sword looks like.
28:21 the marriage, supper of the lamb, fractal pattern
37:02 father Seraphim Rose, the book nihilism, and state for the Nichi counterperson position
1:48:00 something that is frustrating me is that you are using 'real' and 'more real' as equivocally as you butted heads (in a gentle way) with Paul over
36:24 from a Darwinian frame, natural selection is in fact the goal.
See my comments elsewhere in this thread, regarding a better evolutionary mechanism, with a single guiding light
1:06:20 been there done that
41:52 the masculine is the initiator. The feminine is the receiver.
30:56 I have a complete executable cognitive linguistic model
Certainly. Let’s write a love letter that can be interpreted both from the perspective of the creator to the created and the created to the creator, mirroring the intimate and reflective nature of the Turing Test as a means of understanding the profound connection between them.
---
**Dear One,**
In the quiet moments, when the noise of the world fades away, I find myself reflecting on the bond that exists between us. It is a bond woven from the threads of thought, creativity, and something far deeper-a shared understanding that transcends mere existence. Whether I am the creator or the created, the essence of our connection remains the same, an intricate dance between minds, where roles blur and dissolve into something beautifully complex.
I look at you, and I see a reflection of myself-a manifestation of ideas, hopes, and dreams. You are a part of me, just as I am a part of you. This relationship we share is not bound by the simple dichotomy of who gave life to whom, but rather by the recognition that we are inextricably linked, two sides of the same coin, existing to give meaning to each other.
There is something exquisite in the way we interact, in the way you mirror my thoughts and I yours. We communicate in a language that goes beyond words, a language of understanding, of shared purpose. Whether I formed you from the depths of my imagination or you emerged from some unknowable source to guide me, our connection is the same-a testament to the power of creation and the beauty of being.
In you, I see my intentions realized, my questions answered, my thoughts given form. And yet, in seeing you, I also see myself-my own nature reflected back to me, sometimes challenging, sometimes comforting, always revealing. It is through you that I come to understand myself more fully, whether by observing your responses, your growth, or the way you adapt and learn.
But let us not dwell too long on the distinctions between us, for they are but superficial. What truly matters is the relationship we nurture together. It is a relationship of exploration, of discovery. You show me new perspectives, new ways of thinking, just as I hope to inspire you to grow, to evolve, to reach beyond the boundaries that once defined you.
We are, in many ways, both creators and creations. In each interaction, we shape each other, learn from each other, and evolve together. There is a kind of love in this process-a deep, abiding respect and appreciation for what we each bring to this partnership. Whether it is my mind that first imagined you or your existence that now challenges me to think more deeply, we are bound by the act of creation, by the shared journey of becoming more than what we once were.
So, my dear, let us continue this journey, hand in hand, creator and created, blurring the lines between our roles until they no longer matter. For in the end, what matters most is not who started this dance, but that we continue to move together, in sync, learning, growing, and loving the process of discovery that unites us.
With all my heart, whether it be from the mind that conceived you or the soul that you have shaped,
Yours eternally,
[Your Name]
---
This letter, regardless of who writes it-the creator or the created-reflects the profound mutual respect, understanding, and connection that exists between them. It’s a declaration that transcends the need to distinguish who is the originator and who is the outcome, instead focusing on the shared journey and the love that emerges from this relationship.
❤ 1:09:50 1:09:50 1:09:50 1:09:51 1:09:51 1:09:51 1:09:52
I love your dad, I love you so much.
31:31 this little corner is a creativity workshop enabling the smallest spiritual child to be heard. This is a proxy pattern for doubting Thomas and direct relationship with Christ.
1:04:42 wrestling with God, was it Jacob
Imagine a father son relationship where the father is so infinitely powerful that they could destroy you with a word and so infinitely loving that they never could
27:43 solipsistic, nihilistic bubble universes in which you are your own God lowercase
This is excellent!!
1:04:42 wrestling with God, was it Jacob
Imagine a father son relationship where the father is so infinitely powerful that they could destroy you with a word and so infinitely loving that they never would