Why I abuse my hand planes
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
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James, Paul Sellers and Rob Cosman have all each forgotten more about woodworking than I will ever know and if they tell me to glue my plane to the ceiling I would listen.
Very true! I’ve been ‘apprenticing’ from Paul Sellers since he began online. He’s written several articles and will quickly chastise those who say one should always put their plane on their side. I’m going to trust him, who’s been working wood to feed his family since he was 16 and he’s pushing 80, over a shop teacher who’s missing a couple of fingers and a thumb! Besides, all of the dozen or so planes I’ve accumulated are all laying on their soles and remain as sharp as a surgeon’s scalpel.
And Rob Colman has made this same statement - stating the plane down as shown does not cause any harm.
😂😂😂
James who?
@@pinkerbot
Jim Hamilton, aka Stumpy Nubs
I've always believed it is easier for someone to accidentally cut themselves on a protruding plane iron when a hand plane is lying on its side; my students proved me right every time they cut themselves.
There are no students in my workshop, but there are MANY surfaces which will wreck my blade if I put my plane down without putting it on its side.
Yours is an unusual situation, and where students are involved, many additional safety measures are going to be required - throughout the workshop, and apply to many different machines.
How far do you have your blade protruding? Your students cut themselves on something protruding a few thou? That speaks to the fragility of your student's skin, not any inherent danger in a plane blade
@@paulrawlinson8653 Ahh yes, the fragility of the student's skins agains, checks notes... sharpened metal. Buddy, your calluses ain't though enough to prevent metal from cutting you, no matter how much dumb macho crap you tell yourself, you're the only one fooled.
@@Chris.Davies It's your situation that is unusual, what kind of landmine field are you working on that you don't have a wooden surface to put your plane down. Clean up your shop dude.
This conflict needs to end. Let's agree to place them at 45 degrees.
Makes sense to me
That's a nice compromise.
A fine balance
Damnit! I JUST superglued magnets all over a bunch of 'em to stick 'em to the g** d*** fridge!!! Could SOMEONE just make a CONSENSUS and THEN QUIT!!!???!!! ;o)
I see what you’re getting at but I think you’ll have better results at 44.9
I was taught by an old farmer (my dad) that the way you put a plane down was based on what you were putting it on. Wood = sole, anything else =side. We didn't have a shop, we didn't have a workbench. We would work on the top of the table saw, or on the concrete floor of the garage. And sometimes we were taking the plane to the work, which could be a stuck door or window somewhere in the house or barn.
In shop class I was taught to always lay the plane on the side. As I look back, I think it was more to protect the work table than the plane as the work table tops did get holes, gouges and scratches.
Traditionally we plane our bench tops every so often to keep them dead flat anyway so it was really about protecting the plane from damage by being set on another tool by a careless child.
I was also taught the side method in class, and I also assumed it was to protect the bench.
I don’t think our class benches ever got planed flat, so they probably wanted to minimise just how bad they got.
I always lay my planes on the side and I assumed it was mostly in case there was junk on the bench. However, I believe that repeatedly placing a blade onto its fine edge might slightly curl the fine cutting edge. I will continue to place them on the side.
My theory is that shop teachers taught it this way to keep the knuckleheads from putting planes sole down on harder surfaces like table saws and jointers.
There was a particularly fantastic episode of The Woodwright's Shop with Chris Schwarz as guest and he and Roy Underhill were having a quiet war with Chris setting aside his plane aside, sole down, and Roy quietly rolling it over on its side and Chris grabbing it and setting it upright again, over and over with neither saying anything or calling attention to it at any point. I was cracking up.
Haha
Oh. I have to find that!
Which episode?
@@edm00se Who cares? Any episode with Chris and Roy together was an absolute hoot!
I’m with Roy!
That rule isn’t “written in stone”, Stumpy.
It’s “carved in wood”, of course!
…
Great video, as always!
Well, if I know myself, it would be a little dangerous to put a plane on it's side. And I know myself for 45 years. 😬
Thanks, James! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Love the sense of humor and real life thoughts... there really are multiple ways of doing many things correctly...
I always put it sole down. Never have I had a problem. Plus. It's mine. You do what you want with yours .
It has been my experience that people will use tools any way they want until they have to buy the tool themselves. Then they are buying yards of velvet to line the drawers of their toolbox.
@@kevola5739
Well that's another topic entirely. I paid for every tool that I have. Nobody bought them for me. You don't need to treat them with kid gloves. They are meant to be used. I have seen old videos of craftsman making furniture and other tools with their planes and chisels and they worked at a rapid pace. They didn't set their tools down gingerly. At the same time, yes, take care of them but they are tools made of metal. Not glass. So again. With all due respect, They are mine and yours are yours. I will handle mine the way I have always done no matter who decides to give me their opinion on the matter.
I love the humour! “Stupid face” made me laugh out loud!
My father, a very old school carpenter, always stored his planes sole plate down but with the blade retracted but when working put it down with a small piece of wood under the front of the plane.
Exactly right, just retract the blade, everyone’s OCD is happy
I lay my planes in my workbench till and it has beautiful long thing, aromatic shavings in the bottom to nestle my plane safely.
Me too.... Smart man.
Amazing. My dad was a carpenter and when I worked with him at his shop he always put his hand plane down on the sole, which is why I did the same. Then in highschool carpentry class I was told I must put my plane down on its side. When I asked why the instructor made it clear that students were the untidiest species this side of Christendom and he was fed up re-sharpening blades because some dimwit had slammed his plane down on some other tool left lying on the bench!
So yes, I agree it was a 'school thing' about abusing tools, (and being messy).
Dating myself here, but when I was in high school shop class, we would get a smack upside the head if we set a hand plane on its side. Yeah, I went to high school in the late 60's and shop and gym classes were the places where it was "okay" for the teacher to use a little "constructive" feedback. But as I got old, side or bottom doesn't faze me, it's when it falls off the work bench you get into the self-smacking mode.
Another lonely man 'datimg himself. 'At least we blame COVID.!! '
if it's any consolation, Rob Cosman does it all the time. Between the two of you, that's good enough for me.
Hand plane sole down! Sole down! I’m converted. The brush your hand argument is so strong.
My great-uncle always told me to put a plane sole down to avoid cutting yourself. You can sharpen an iron in a few minutes. Serious cuts can take days to weeks to heal.
Laying a plane on its side stems from a time when we all used wooden planes whose irons were held in place with a wedge, and as a sharp blow to the sole would loosen the wedge the plane was laid on its side to preserve the set. The advent of cast iron planes negated the need for this but the practice was so ingrained it continues to this day, sorry about the pun.
Reminds me of a story: A man and woman got married. After several weeks, the man noticed that his new wife always cut the end off the Sunday roast before putting it in the oven, so he asked why. She responded, "I don't really know, only that my mom always did that." The next time they went to visit mom, they asked her why she cut the end off, and she said the same thing: she wasn't sure why, only that her mom always did it that way. So, on a later trip to Grandma's house, they asked her, "Why did you always cut the end off the Sunday roast before cooking it?"
"Because I had a small oven, and that's the only way I could make it fit!"
Some traditions have the oddest origins.
I remember in my childhood my father telling me to always take the drill bit out of the chuck and leave it open and to open the metal vise at the end of the day because there might be a cold snap overnight which might break the chuck or the vise. The positive result of this is not so much saving a tool because we don't get cold snaps that severe where I live but that I think of him every time I finish using a chuck or vise and that he actually gave me a reason for a particular practice.
Yes! He gave you the reason for the "policy" any kid especially me always curious about why we did something, ate that information up. Your dad sounds like my dad was, he treated me like a person not just a kid.
Planes should ALWAYS BE ON THEIR SIDE - when using a shooting board! !! !!!
LOL at "stupid face"
I remember seeing Paul talk about this on a video some years ago. Glad you're bringing it up. Cheers!
Well everyone has one; OPINION that is!
We all like to ( point out ) things others do. I was told this many years ago by a Sgt. Major ( DAD )
WHEN YOU POINT A FINGER ----- YOU HAVE THREE POINTING AT YOURSELF!!!
HMMM
And then which side?🤨 Left or right?😇LOL
I have a piece of rubber truck liner I lay mine on {sole down}. Has Been functional for 30+ years.
Day one with an old Master Luthier I sat a plane on it's side.... The old boy's reaction was epic, I learned several new swearwords and insults in the following 30 seconds 🤣 Needless to say I have never layed a plane on it's side since that day. To his credit, once he calmed down he proceeded to tell me why it was a bad habit. He also ingrained in me the habit of being super tidy and putting tools that I am not using back on their storage space.
"If someone is doing something different, ask 'Why?', and maybe you'll learn something." - Stumpy Nubs
Pappy who taught me woodworking stressed looking where you laid your plane BEFORE you put it on the bench surface. Been doing it his way for 64 years now. Great video. Hopefully it will make folks operate that vital piece of equipment with a bit more knowledge. Oh, that vital piece of equipage is ye aulde brain.....
There are gate-keepers everywhere. My grandfather was a joiner who apprenticed in the shipyards of Glasgow in the 1910's and came to this country in 1923, so I guess he qualifies as an "old-timer". He never had a problem with putting the plane sole down on the bench top, and somehow, his blades were always sharp. Moreover, he used to carry them in his toolbox while he was looking for work during the great depression, where they definitely came in contact with other tools. Somehow, I still use his 1920 vintage Stanley-Bailey and they still work just fine.
as a retired professional furniture maker who has never lived in america (though visited) i have never put a plane on its side. 99% of the so called experts in youtube have never been trained, but still know it all. stumpy if you offend this bunch, i say good for you.
I apprenticed in 1958 as a Carpenter, They did not have Carbide Blades then, Every morning, my responsibility was to hand sharpen all circular saw blades, Planes, and Chisels. I was taught just as you said, It's OK to lay them on there face just don't drop them. Wan to be experts have a set of rediculas rules, and codes, that they think makes them better than the rest. The mark of a truly skilled craftsman is how he treats, and cares for his tool's, just he does for the loved ones in his life, and he's always open to new ideas. Thank You Nubs.
I'm offended that there is more than one way to do things!
Thanks for another educational and historically interesting video : )
I've always sit mine on the sole. I just don't power slam the thing down.
I for one always put my plane down in a shoe box filled with cotton, lined with bubble wrap, and supported by Silentbloc rubbers that resist magnitude 9 earthquakes. Just in case.
I was taught the same a LONG TIME ago ! However it was explained that if a nail or piece of grit or as you said anything. EXCELLENT point about the adjustment! I needed a fact like that to give me a reason to consider changing. I mostly use my block planes go into my apron or a bench plane a small amount of use so not picking up and putting down very much.
To funny. Yes the old school woodshop planes were in danger of the sheet steel bench tops. My narrow, homemade profile, dadoe and rabbet planes usually end up on the side, the bailey pattern planes get set down however they are set down.
0:37
The video should have ended here
(I put my planes sole-down as well)
If I'm working on a wood bench I lay it however it lands but if I'm out on the job it gets laid on the side.
If you're on the fence about a helical head just spend the money, your ears will thank you.
Maybe the side laying started,not to protect the plane but, to protect the bench top. A kid knowing how the plane works. Might just not resist pushing the plane and damaging the bench top.
I think it was Rob Cosman who once said, if you're worried about the steel of your cutter from putting it sole down, you should reconsider the cutter that you're using.
Plenty of photos and videos of Frank klausz with his planers sole down.. enough to convince me that side only is not the old way or the way of a master...
I cannot express how much I love your sarcasm
Rob Cosman, a pretty good woodworker, says that laying a plane on the sole won't hurt it at all.
I keep mine suspended in mid air.
I prefer to place (carefully) the plane sole down to keep one less sharp surface from being exposed.
Ah Paul Sellers! He taught me when I was a nipper! Didn't expect to hear his name here!
as with most rules, it is more important to understand the rule and its background than to blindly follow it.
I have laid the plane on its side for the last 50 years, folk will always say they know best, do whatever works for you
Good video as always.
Keep up the informative stories. All the best from Australia.
I only put my planes down on memory foam that is covered in rose petals. Never wood!
Were you dropped on your head as a child? ME TOO! Actually I climbed out of my crib and got a birds eye view of the concrete floor coming up to meet me. That was my last crib adventure and I still remember it and never forgot about it..
People get silly ideas and never want to let go of them.. I'm definitely guilty of having sillier ideas than most, but I'm not married to them, but there was that one time...😂
Not married to silly ideas? Afraid your wife will see this. I know I am!
"And, your stupid face." 🙏🏻
Now on to the next fight. Ground wire up or down on electric receptacles.
You're doing just fine. Ignore the naysayers and carry on!
James! What you are bringing logic to this. You can not do that!
This is what happens when people do as they're told without asking why. Just as you said, "if someone is doing it differently ask why" I have 1 RUclips subscription and it's this channel. Thanks a million for all you do.
I enjoy sharpening. I beat up my tools edges.
I’m from New Zealand and we were taught to lay the plane on its side.
i would never ever ever put my plane down on anything other than it’s side, but you make some good points.
As you said, I learned to put it on it’s side and have ever since. But now I will not feel bad if i don’t. Thanks for your videos.
"Old Timers" often did things based on old wives (husbands?) tales and superstition.. which means that yes, they were very often wrong.
I’ve always placed mine sole down specifically to avoid the sharp edge removing my finger prints
If Paul Sellers is ok with it, I am....
This is the silliest "controversy" in woodworking, but I guess it collects comments.
No, it gives an opportunity to teach an interesting bit of the craft's history.
There going to be Stumpy Nubs discount codes for My Wood Cutters?
I have a Lux 3 on my Ridgid jointer and it is a champ. I just ordered one for my Ridgid planer. I expect the same results-a champ!! Can't go wrong with the product.
I would be doing pushups in shop class
I lay my plane gently down in a puddle of beer.
Social Media has made a lot of people think they are brilliant geniuses who feel the need to tell the rest of us that they are brilliant geniuses. And I know this because I am a brilliant genius.
I treat all my tools like hammers
just don't set it on your table saw.
Evening to ya, James! Let's just say, this" Bandit" lays a plane down according to what it lays on. The Dungeon Woodshop is still going strong. "Offended"? NOT!
Love the videos. Keep it up Stumpy!
All my planes have a spot - that is free from wood to store them . I disagree with you 100% - I am a shop teacher of 37 years - and IF a plane is moved across a bench, bumped, it will mark a bench. SO IF I was TO have professionals what UNDERSTOOD the aspect of moving a plane then I would not worry. HAVE you seen what a 17 year old does these days. I do not understand WHY laying it on its side is a bad idea. SO again - IT TRUELY depends on WHO is dealing with these said planes.
Great explanation and video. Some English guy named Paul Sellers agrees with you.......:):):):)
"Stupid face" ? The temerity, the unmitigated gall...the baboonery..."Stupid face" ? How dare they.
and here I expected the reason for not setting a plane sole down on a bench top would be to keep from nicking the bench top.
Same here!
Good info BUT what about the question you brought up at the beginning? Where you dropped on your head as a young child? Thanks as always for a videos!
No, but I have had several concussions. I don't think they affect me much. Also, I have had several concussions.
@@StumpyNubs yeah but have you had any concussions or was that just me?
I take good care of all of my stuff, but I really don’t care what anyone else thinks of what I do or how I do it. I bought all of it with my money so I’ll do with it what I choose. Thankfully I don’t have a RUclips channel for people to nitpick everything I do or say. Keep up the great work James. I’m heading up to Midland for a visit on Saturday, one of these days I need to drop in and meet you in person. One of my old friends is from St. Charles.
The HORROR! THE HORROR!!!!
Thanks for sending out this video on how to protect your cutter heads of your plane on your side or face down. Now I know that even though I’m not a user of hand planes, I use a 16” helical head 1600 lb Powermatic jointer usually on a daily basis. My new routine at the end of the day will be kicking my jointer so it lays on it’s side until I use it 5:40 the next day when I place it up rite again. All these 30 years, didn’t know I was doing it wrong!
Hauli khau! Is this still hanging around? It's as silly as the controversy over REDACTED BY AUTHOR or REDACTED BY AUTHOR on (anti)social media! Who cares? Set your plane down however you want to but think about the location first.
(nice job James!)
If you are worried about wood chipping your metal blade. you have the wrong metal blade
So far😊😊 since watching you, have haven’t forced
Anybody into doing anythng your way. You have always left the decisions to the individual to make. The level of professionalism you have is outstanding! Thank you and please keep doing your show, i have learned a great deal!!!! 5:40
I think it is pretty well accepted, now, that putting the plane on its side is unnecessary, and runs the risk of altering the lateral adjustment of the blade.
I sometimes do this, but only when I have just oiled the sole, and the oil would be partially taken off by the bench-cloth which I always use.
(A bench cloth, and a runner of short-pile carped in front of the bench: now, that's *way* more important than putting the plane on its side.)
Mmmmm … the story about Sam Steele arriving in Skagway at -30°F is not credible. Skagway I on fjord on the Pacific Ocean so it doesn’t get to -30°F. I live in Fairbanks Alaska and I’ve been to Skagway multiple times. Steele may have meant Lake Bennett, but given that confusion I’d be leery of his accounts.
When I did woodworking at school (back in the 1970s) if you had more than 2 tools on top of your bench at any time you got a right telling off from the teacher. As soon as you finished using a tool it had to go back in the drawer under the bench. But yes, we were taught to put our planes down on their side. I asked why we had to do that since watching the teacher work on his own projects he never did. The answer was because his bench was always clear. Didn't really understand till now.
Finally!! Someone using common sense regarding this subject. Thank you!
this is kinda funny. I was watching some CNC videos the other day found some DA who thinks you have to buy EVERY BIT for a CNC when you start out with your CNC, 2 sided tape does not work he claims (works for my CNC and about 99% of others ) this guy was all over the place coffee builds or some crap. only person i seen with a 40,000$ CNC that dont know crap about CNC's. He had to be handed that CNC or stole it. no way a person that dumb could spend 40G on a CNC
Yeah, in school, because of dubious bench construction (and frequently sheet-steel tables) we were taught to lay the planes on their sides, explicitly because of the dubious constructions, metal-on-metal contacts, and for varieties of things being left all over the work tables and benches IN SCHOOL...
In actual LABOR situations, from shops to field sites, I always got the same basic speech and principles. If you lay the plane on wood or cardboard, sole down... If you lay it on anything "harder" than wood, on its side... At work sites, we would frequently make "plane caddies" which were either dug or carved out to fit, or patterned and glued up to fit around the plane so there was just a little friction to hold onto the sole plate... It didn't have to hold particularly tight, and you DID want relative ease to just get the damn plane (defined by the words "Don't hold elephants with it")... BUT the hand planes WERE respected, along with many other hand tools with cutters or refined mechanics exposed, and they got a caddy. Wherever you took the tool, you brought the caddy so you HAD a specific place and way to set it down to be easily picked back up again... and it was made of material (usually wood) or lined so it couldn't possibly harm cutters or other exposed working bits and parts. Made storing the tools in stacks or bins or whatever boxes and lockers easier, too...
AND everybody learned how to make them. It wasn't difficult, and they were never fancy... BUT they DID get regularly stepped on or run over and broken. Nobody bitched about it. You were just expected to build a replacement caddy if you were in charge of a tool and the caddy got broken "on your watch". No big deals, and there were always enough scraps to go through and get it done...
BUT when you're working in a gravel covered lot, there's just no good way to put anything down ANYWHERE... ;o)
Just make sure you lay your new helical head down on its side. If it's not YOUR plane, don't worry about it. Talk about your first world problems.......
Uh, I did order from WC a new Lux. After following install instructions, the cutter ripped the pinion threads out. Sent back and…. Clearly operator error. Am out the 550 for the Lux, and a broken plainer. Neither WC or Lux backed the product, even though metal could be seen in the threads of the pinion gear. fool me once, shame on me, and am out the 550 (+35 shipping post damage) bucks, and a broken planer. Thanks WC and Lux! P s, Lux has the cutter, they can keep it, not worth charging me another 35 for shipping. Working with these companies cost me 1200, and am now shopping for a new planer. Will never deal with either company again, no, am not going to be fooled twice.
Always likes me some rational youtube woodworking.
For regular woodworking, I am "self-taught", meaning that I didn't do shop class in HS, or any other seminars or anything. Some in woodturning, but that's almost a different craft altogether. I learned flat woodworking from TV, books, magazines (remember those), videos, and now the internet.
Having said this, somewhere along the line, I developed the plane-on-side habit ---without even thinking of it these days, I'll look down and I've laid a lot plane on its side. No idea where I picked up the habit; no threatened beatings from shop teachers or bosses or grandfathers, I just picked up a habit which all the wood dudes I now respect say is unnecessary.
Truley appreciate the vid, but I'll bet you'll still have comments from some crank(s) (and they can't help it, probably faced corporal punishment from the shop ogre with real stumpy nubs) in future videos when you thoughtlessly sin against the plane gods.
STUMPYYYY!!!.. LOVE YOUR CONTENT BUDDY!!
In school almost 70 years ago my woodworking teacher (I still remember her as my favourite teacher to this day) indeed taught us never to put a plane on its sole. Today I sometimes do it, if reluctantly. We then didn't know metal planes, and I mostly use wooden ones still today.
Btw.: In one commentary you are criticized for your correct french pronunciation of "faux pas". Please stick with it.
Thanks for this video. Importantly: I say use what ever method works for one's situation. That is dynamic.
And thanks for subtlety addressing the issue of HOSTILITY and ANGER in RUclips comments. This has been a growing problem and has been addressed by many--including Jordan Perterson.
This is not the forum to vent your personal un-met needs or insecurities. (read that again, and repeat...)
Also, I will look into how the Japanese hand plane is rested on the floor or bench top. Just as another viable practice.
You are always thoughtful and mindful of what you do and practice James. Those who complain or nitpick about the trivial issues are just lazy TROLLS who have no other constructive suggestions
Anyone who fumes over this doesn't realize that they were actually taught to do the wrong thing. Its safer for both the plane and the operator for it to be laid down flat. It was taught commonly in public schools but that was more about protecting the planes from being damaged by careless children setting them down on other metal tools. I typed this out right at the beginning of the video and I'm glad to see you covered it right away. Good Vid.