Is charged chop actually broken?

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  • Опубликовано: 22 дек 2024

Комментарии • 93

  • @visby_
    @visby_  Месяц назад +26

    3:01 and 2:11 It's obvious but I meant Charged Chop woops
    0:36 Doing it after Perfect Rush 2 also leads to the powered up version

    • @Gustaviustwinkelberry
      @Gustaviustwinkelberry Месяц назад

      How are you still playing the beta?

    • @VeldWolf
      @VeldWolf Месяц назад

      Is it possible Perfect Rush with Charged Chop finishers outdamages the basic combos you did here? if that were the case it'd make PR useful for when you can actually get the whole thing off (so during topples) but not overcentralizing as it did in World. Personally I'm a big fan of the basic combo loop of Wilds SnS, incorporating both the triangle and circle combos and moving around using triangle attacks, so this might end up being the first time I use SnS actively.

    • @visby_
      @visby_  Месяц назад +2

      @@VeldWolf I actually asked someone to do the math for that one, and unfortunately your other options just do better damage.

  • @athos9293
    @athos9293 Месяц назад +143

    Being able to actually choose the best attack for each moment instead of spamming something reliable is the biggest flex of skill

    • @5-Volt
      @5-Volt Месяц назад +8

      This. All through Iceborne & Rise it felt like PR was the only thing to do. Now I feel compelled to do different combos or attacks given the situation.

    • @TanegiHoneydew
      @TanegiHoneydew Месяц назад +5

      @@5-Volt I'm really glad Capcom decides to keep SnS combo-flexible like in Sunbreak.

    • @meek3070
      @meek3070 Месяц назад

      ​@@5-VoltBut PR feels so good to use especially landing that last hit in World, I just wish there's more dopamine to charged chop.

    • @FrostyTheCookie
      @FrostyTheCookie Месяц назад

      @@5-Volt Perfect Rush in Rise actually was not what most runners used because it wasn't the best option. It actually ended up having to get buffed because it was underpowered, and even still you dont see it a ton in Sunbreak.

    • @aranhasherlockholmes974
      @aranhasherlockholmes974 29 дней назад

      @@5-Volt wdym, perfect rush was kinda mid in rise, lateral slash loop was way better

  • @ahmadbugshan9603
    @ahmadbugshan9603 Месяц назад +62

    I never thought its OP it just felt like a really really strong finisher, people got PTSD from IB PR lmao
    I do hope if PR is a bit better tho, triple circle slashes into a spinner reaper into a charged chop for med sized openings and PR into spinning reaper into charged chop for big openings maybe

    • @MotherOfAnimals
      @MotherOfAnimals Месяц назад +2

      Yeah I don't want an IB situation where PR takes over SnS' whole kit, but PR did seem underwhelming in Wilds. Even when using the backhop i-frames to land PR, I wasn't sure if it was worth it damage-wise compared to just dodging and doing something else.
      With current values, is PR > reaper > enhanced charged chop even a good combo if you have time for it, or should you just do something else instead? I was doing the PR combo in the beta because it *felt* like it should be SnS' big combo, but not even sure if it was justified.

    • @visby_
      @visby_  Месяц назад +2

      ​@@MotherOfAnimalsno it isnt unfortunately

    • @athos9293
      @athos9293 Месяц назад +7

      ​@@MotherOfAnimalsYou can use the jump attack from the back hop to do a mid-air focus strike, if the monster has a wound on it's back.

    • @MotherOfAnimals
      @MotherOfAnimals Месяц назад +5

      @@athos9293 Oh yeah, that was easily my favourite manoeuvre in the beta. Feels like one of those things that's never gonna get old

    • @athos9293
      @athos9293 Месяц назад

      @@MotherOfAnimals Like closing 3 wounds at once with the greatsword.

  • @Timblesink
    @Timblesink 29 дней назад

    Nice vid fam. It'll be interesting to see how elements (and whatever balance changes occur) change ideal combos and weapon tier lists in the final game.

  • @snowstorm5103
    @snowstorm5103 Месяц назад +13

    It often feels like the charged chop spam makes more wounds though

  • @aruzail
    @aruzail Месяц назад +3

    Gonna assume that the loss of charged chop ticks are related to clean hit properties, I'm a gunlance main and its similar with wyvern fire, it has omega range now but hitting at point blank gives 5 ticks of dmg instead of the usual 4 (on PC with high fps, on ps5 it was consistently 4 ticks on a clean hit). However seeing that charged chop requires you to be close range anyway, it might also be a bug...
    Phenomenal video btw, gotta love that ur shutting down the doomsayers with actual data

  • @5-Volt
    @5-Volt Месяц назад +23

    Might be a hot take but this is one of my favorite versions of SnS. Charged chop being a finisher just means you have multiple routes to it. What I really like is perfect guard. Finally, SnS has an actual defensive ability with the shield. Yeah, I miss metsu but that wasn't always available on demand.

    • @RawxstarGaming
      @RawxstarGaming Месяц назад +8

      1000% agree with this. Honestly I like sns more now than ever before cuz it sucked having a shield that didn’t feel like it protected you from much, at least with all
      The knock back. And guard clashes being available for sns is goated

    • @td984
      @td984 Месяц назад +2

      Personally I find the new SnS clunkier and less interesting. Charge Chop feels awful to use that I'd rather they just buffed the hell out of spinning reaper instead. Sliding sweep also feels terrible and the fact that it replaced the old rising slash unsheathe combo starter rubs me the wrong way.

    • @iceran9822
      @iceran9822 Месяц назад

      @@td984 Honestly you probably just need to get used to the new moves, it might feel clunkier because you are not as familiar with them then with the moves from the other games that you probably used thousands of times already

  • @bagger3632
    @bagger3632 Месяц назад +20

    If I learned anything here it's that I did not play enough of SnS in the beta
    frick you hunting horn for being so fun and cool >:(

  • @AtomicBarito
    @AtomicBarito Месяц назад +2

    the fact that charged chop seems to make the rest of the hits hit guranteed felt so nice in the beta if a bit awkward looking, makes me feel like longsword at times x3

  • @flynnhtt
    @flynnhtt Месяц назад +6

    Perfect rush weeping in the back

    • @iceran9822
      @iceran9822 Месяц назад +1

      you can actually get the more powerful charged chop after the second attack of perfect rush, so its still pretty useful!

    • @NoreoNC
      @NoreoNC Месяц назад

      I was hoping for perfect rush to get a new ending attack in wilds but they just copypasted the rise version of it

  • @lakwasredestdu5811
    @lakwasredestdu5811 Месяц назад +1

    These are great news. Thanks for the effort

  • @erickchristensen746
    @erickchristensen746 Месяц назад +2

    It will definitely be doing a lot elemental damage that’s for sure

  • @DanielisAwesome52
    @DanielisAwesome52 Месяц назад +2

    I didn't go heavy into everything in the beta on purpose, totally missed this was even an option in the SnS moveset

  • @KeeperOfTheGate02
    @KeeperOfTheGate02 Месяц назад +6

    Speedrunners when a finisher does the damage of a finisher when it finishes a combo

  • @UncleZeebs
    @UncleZeebs Месяц назад +21

    Ever since World came out the MH community has been growing this toxic mentality that when a weapon gets a decent new move, it's broken and needs to get nerfed. Long Sword is one thing since the devs are obsessed with it and literally said it's their favorite weapon, but Sword and Shield has been starved for something new that's part of it's regular moveset for a while. If people think this is "broken" then they need to take their candy asses back to call of duty.

    • @timothy6583
      @timothy6583 Месяц назад +1

      Think the problem it out shine others moves in sns set

    • @Cheeyze
      @Cheeyze Месяц назад +4

      People don’t understand that MH weapons have always and will always have certain moves/combos that are spammed for optimal DPS, so whenever a new one gets added they freak out. It’s not a problem on its own, because usually it’s only a little stronger than other options so you only need to spam for min-maxed dps. The problem is when they add moves that outperform the rest of the kit, like Iceborne Perfect Rush, or rarely, entire other weapons, like Magnet Spike in Frontier made Hammer completely obsolete. That’s when it’s a real problem and needs to be nerfed. SnS still has plenty of other good options, so it’s fine.

    • @MHBaba10
      @MHBaba10 Месяц назад

      Yup longsword is the one weapon that crapcom will always favor ever since it was introduced in 2nd Gen (i think). The only time in recent memory that it was "nerfed" was in sunbreak as many people including the japanese MonHun community was complaining about longsword being too powerful. Hell I remember that when sunbreak was doing its weapons new silkbind moves showcases longsword got disliked into oblivion in both the English trailer and Japanese one.
      Still people really need to relax about new moves being introduced to other weapons that benefit em like SnS since its the first time its gotten something really nice unlike longsword 50 counters and helmsplitter.

  • @klodpraisor
    @klodpraisor Месяц назад +1

    I like charged chop because it feels powerful and I’ve always have a bit of an issue with SnS rotation being somewhat easy to mess up. Sure spamming it is suboptimal but it’s a good way to guarantee good play feel while picking up the weapon, which I’m all for.

  • @WizardRPG
    @WizardRPG Месяц назад +1

    I noticed this in the beta and just assumed it was more damage based on the glowy animation, good to know it's a decent enough difference because it felt much better than spamming charged chop. Hopefully they make PR worth using or it's cracked with elemental or something because its pretty fun to use as well despite the backhop changes.

  • @user-lt7pq3sc1r
    @user-lt7pq3sc1r Месяц назад +3

    Thanks for the informative video!!

  • @puntacana7550
    @puntacana7550 Месяц назад +1

    Hey you dropped this 👑

  • @jhiatt1516
    @jhiatt1516 Месяц назад +1

    Cold hard data 📊 , just how I like it 😎

  • @Yato_q
    @Yato_q Месяц назад +2

    what do i even use perfect rush for at this point?

  • @jkreincarnation
    @jkreincarnation Месяц назад

    the ONLY thing I miss from Rise is how Scaling Slash had invincibility. I loved timing them as counters to things. RIP invul scaling slash

    • @visby_
      @visby_  Месяц назад

      @@jkreincarnation i miss that one too rip

  • @Dumb-Comment
    @Dumb-Comment Месяц назад

    As a perfect rush user, I didn't even know these moves existed

    • @iceran9822
      @iceran9822 Месяц назад

      you can actually incorporate this as the last move of perfect rush now, which is good, because we don't have that hard hitting finisher from IB anymore

  • @TruePeaceSeeker
    @TruePeaceSeeker Месяц назад +4

    Now the question is, does perfect rush even matter now?

    • @marc1981tremblay
      @marc1981tremblay Месяц назад +8

      unless they buff it for release, No !

    • @GilesChimera
      @GilesChimera Месяц назад +6

      The final hit counts as airborn now so it can be used to work on mount progress.

    • @puntacana7550
      @puntacana7550 Месяц назад

      @@GilesChimera or if you wanted do mount damage you could just jump from back hop instead of doing full PR combo which is long and under dps. PR can’t be justified with mount damage at the end

    • @iceran9822
      @iceran9822 Месяц назад

      Yes, you can get the powerful variant of charged chop as a perfect rush finisher, so its still very much usable

  • @jonathonmiller2662
    @jonathonmiller2662 Месяц назад +12

    God forbid that a melee weapon other than LS be a bit stronger for a change. In all seriousness though people probably just think its overtuned because the rest of the weapon's kit is underwhelming.

  • @Boss-lp9ce
    @Boss-lp9ce Месяц назад +3

    Thank you for these tests!
    I thought that RS>CC was optimal because of a few videos I seen.
    I'm glad this isn't the case, cause it would just be too boring.
    How are you feeling about the weapon overall when compered to the others?
    Also, what do you think about perfect rush? It seems a bit useless now...
    I heard some people saying that in the description of PR in the hunter's notes was stated that the move was suited for elemental damage. Can you confirm this?

    • @visby_
      @visby_  Месяц назад +3

      ​@@Boss-lp9ce It's going in a good direction, that's my current impression. We know this game is a build older than the one presented in TGS, and a few clips from public demos around that time showed changes to the moveset that I suggested in the survey, like how rising slash is doable after guard.
      As for pr, no, that bit about pr doing good ele damage basically translates to a few of the hits having a 1.2 ele modifier. This was how it was back in rise as well (actually, they basically copypasted pr motion values and elemods) and it was a pretty bad move to do even with all the ele boosting skills.
      The biggest nerf rn is falling bash, its motion values were gutted, probably as compensation for being able to do the 2 hit version from both charged slash and pr 3. This nerf also nerfs pr because its the follow up you wanted to do after pr 3 if you want good damage.
      All we can do right now is wait and see if they change these.

  • @TheSuperPlayerify
    @TheSuperPlayerify Месяц назад

    I think it's usable during perfect rush for the boost in dmg too, but I could be wrong

  • @Bunuffin
    @Bunuffin Месяц назад

    What if you use the charged chop at the end of the perfect rush tho?

  • @jhiatt1516
    @jhiatt1516 Месяц назад

    I think charged chop is an awesome addition to the kit, but I love the PR animation so much and find charged chop animation a little bit underwhelming. Nothing beats the satisfaction of making those wild perfect rush swings when you have an opening 😤

  • @Arc-ug7dc
    @Arc-ug7dc 10 дней назад

    What drill slash wishes it could be

  • @NoZeroGG
    @NoZeroGG Месяц назад

    maan I wonder if frostcraft is still a thing in wilds or maybe something similar

  • @fordy5788
    @fordy5788 Месяц назад +3

    More elemental/status runs for me 😊

  • @nicolaspeigne1429
    @nicolaspeigne1429 Месяц назад

    Can you weave a spinning reaper between each lateral slash combo or is it better to just spam the combo until you want to end with the spinning reaper and charged chop ?

  • @Sky-lo6wv
    @Sky-lo6wv Месяц назад +3

    so i guess perfect rush is pretty much useless?

  • @Sarpys1
    @Sarpys1 Месяц назад +2

    Is there a point to using perfect rush over charged chop then? Or is it now saved for longer damage windows?

    • @snek1356
      @snek1356 Месяц назад +1

      Perfect rush doesn't have any real use in the beta, it does less DPS then pretty much every other option.

  • @K.YVlogs
    @K.YVlogs Месяц назад

    Didnt know baby charge blade had comp too🧐

  • @RuneSeoui
    @RuneSeoui Месяц назад

    Please send this video to Michael MH. That dude has no idea that damage numbers exist.

  • @stinkylizard
    @stinkylizard Месяц назад

    I have no real technical knowledge of Monster Hunter's damage or the "meta", so this is simply from a layman, but I wonder if people were seeing the Charged Chop used a lot because its strength is front-loaded. While a full combo does more damage, a good percent of that damage is (I assume) focused on the strong moves at the end - spamming CC might not do as much as a full combo, but it might do more than a partial combo, since the damage is more spread out over time (since you're doing the same move over and over). It's not as good as LS > RS > SRS > SR > CC, but it's better than just LS > RS, if you don't have the time for the last two or three moves.

  • @woahasmurf7878
    @woahasmurf7878 Месяц назад +2

    People were saying that Charged Chop looked overpowered, but honestly, I found it a bit underwhelming. I might be a bit biased, though, since I was spoiled by the ridiculously strong PR MV in Iceborne. One of my concerns was that Charged Chop would be useless at the start of the game, similar to how PR was before the Stygian Zinogre update. However, after watching this video, I’m feeling more optimistic that it won’t be completely ineffective and will actually be viable. I'm also curious if Charged Chop will scale well with elemental values-could elemental Sword and Shield finally be a real thing? As far as I can recall, the Sword and Shield has always leaned towards raw damage, only allowing for elemental builds with specific monsters like Savage Deviljho and Kulve Taroth. Who knows.

    • @pepus777
      @pepus777 Месяц назад

      historically, SnS is one of the best element weapons in every game. I don't expect that to change in wilds

    • @woahasmurf7878
      @woahasmurf7878 Месяц назад

      @@pepus777 I've only been using SnS since MH3u, so forgive me if my knowledge is short-sighted, but most 'meta' SnS sets revolved around raw, or at least it started when "Slime"/"blast" was introduced. I don't recall favoring elemental SnS over raw , unless like I mentioned before, it was for a very specific matchup.

    • @pepus777
      @pepus777 Месяц назад

      ​@@woahasmurf7878 3u and world definitely had slime and blast be dominant, so that's a pretty reasonable misconception. typically though SNS has much higher elem values than dual blades despite still being a weapon that hits often, so it works great on elem in every game I've played. I also started with 3u!

  • @chidori0117
    @chidori0117 Месяц назад

    I dont think most people were literally saying charged chop spam is the best dps but doing the circle combo into spinning reaper with charged chop was ... thats what most people spammed.

    • @JamesNintendoTurd
      @JamesNintendoTurd Месяц назад

      Micheal MH claimed that just spamming charged chop is the highest DPS, but he seems to never actually have tested doing charged chop at the end of a Triangle or Circle combo, because his DPS chart doesn't even include those. I have to assume he didn't realize Charged Chop gets higher MV if done at the end of a combo, and thus dismissed using charged chop as a finisher for those combos entirely, because doing charged chop after Perfect Rush was lower DPS on his chart.

  • @sig.sergios2996
    @sig.sergios2996 Месяц назад +5

    I don't want to complain when the sns get a new strong move, but i can't stand seeing the damage numbers on the monster while you are stabbing the grounds. Wilds does this a lot with the multi hit moves and i don't get it.
    Cool video tho.

  • @shen5639
    @shen5639 Месяц назад +2

    I love you!

  • @RenoKyrie
    @RenoKyrie Месяц назад +1

    So yet another exagerated reactions to Wilds changes that people hate
    Seriously, as someone who honestly dislike both World and Rise for very different reason, Wilds honestly is the perfect middle ground
    It has World complexity without the boring parts and it has Rise flashiness without being easilly overpowered(Except Bow i guess, even Longsword feels balanced than Bow)

  • @stormshadowoffire
    @stormshadowoffire Месяц назад +7

    I don't think charged chop is the problem, every other part of sns's kit is just too weak. Just look at the best times between sns and gunlance

    • @petercottantail7850
      @petercottantail7850 Месяц назад +6

      gunlance will always perform near the top with an even playing field, it always falls short at endgame because not enough skill synergies exists for it.
      but you are right about why people look at certain moves and think they are good, both weapons (and others) suffer from an over centralizing move that invalidates the rest of the kit without an unhealthy amount of inside knowledge to find a better option.
      and the damage is only half the problem, these moves were designed for the new game so they feel better to spam and get away with, while the other moves feel sluggish and awkward to maintain uptime. if things don't improve from beta, this game is going to be more brain dead than rise and you'll get punished with longer hunts if you don't embrace the monotony or no life the frame data like this video suggests

    • @visby_
      @visby_  Месяц назад +9

      ​@@petercottantail7850"unhealthy amount of inside knowledge" its literally just hitting a barrel and counting numbers

  • @angerskarin9222
    @angerskarin9222 Месяц назад

    I feel like the heavy bowgun felt so weak during the beta, the dumb spread shot does nearly no damage.

  • @Chetooooooo
    @Chetooooooo Месяц назад

    Man its doing almost twice the damage of true charge when not enhanced and easy to spam ._.

    • @RawxstarGaming
      @RawxstarGaming Месяц назад

      I think GS is designed more around all the charge attacks now, not just getting straight to TCS as quickly as possible. Seems like they’re spreading out the viability of each weapons kit so it’s not as rinse and repeat as before. Could be wrong, but all the charge attacks on GS are closer in damage now than they’ve been

    • @idkwatimdoingtbh
      @idkwatimdoingtbh Месяц назад

      @@RawxstarGaming think you're right about that, although monke brain neuron activation on hitting a TCS is still a thing for me :p

  • @sarbe6625
    @sarbe6625 Месяц назад

    Yeah I think people also just need to stop focusing so much on speedrunners when discussing what is and isn't good. Speedrunning is not what this game is designed around and it's only one of the ways to play this game. Unless you really like speedrunning and shaving those microseconds off of your time, not focusing on it too much will let you give yourself room to consider other playstyles which will lead to more fun, varied, and interesting fights.

  • @swashed.
    @swashed. Месяц назад

    👀

  • @Ersb99
    @Ersb99 Месяц назад +5

    Its 20 difference dmg bro, godamit , also skiping just to charged shop its more consistent cuz i dont need to use my brain at all 😂😂😂, HOPE they teawks some numbers and also in the switch axe , SWaxe NUMBERS are just bad

    • @visby_
      @visby_  Месяц назад +9

      The point of the video is to provide counter-evidence for the "spamming charged chop is all you need to do with sns in wilds" sentiment.
      By all means, do what you want.

    • @Ersb99
      @Ersb99 Месяц назад +3

      @visby_ in shorters interactions it's optimal, and also I do like playing like a monkey whiout thinking 🤔, bro thanks for the video but yeah it's a beta lest hope for the best

    • @epsilon1372
      @epsilon1372 Месяц назад

      The good thing is that motion values it something they can easily tweak in the final product. Mechanics like with the insect glaive being more grounded probably can’t, however

    • @MrNamenamenamename
      @MrNamenamenamename Месяц назад

      So you basically didnt watch the video. He clearly showed you can play sns normally and charged chop can miss some of its damage potential. BUT BY ALL MEANS GO ABOUT YOUR COMPLAINING OF A BETA BUILD OF THE GAME LIKE THE REST OF THE MASSES. BLAH BLAH FIX SNS SNS BAD BLAH BLAH.​@@Ersb99

  • @SetaSayin
    @SetaSayin Месяц назад

    Focus with crazy chop man oh man