*Thanks for watching!* Let us know in the comments below your thoughts on where epic stories come from. Intrigued by the information in this video? Check out our latest book The Practical Guide to Becoming a Great GM - on pre-order here: bit.ly/3EDNbmK
The joke about the NPC saying ‘all that gold, I don’t do anything with it’ is quite similar to something that I had in a tomb once. The PCs were required to steal a specific relic from the tomb of an Emperor. They manage to get in and get past the wards set up by the tombs builders (whose decision were made entirely separately from the tombs inhabitant) and find themselves in the chamber that contains the relic and also the spirit of the emperor that it belonged to. The dead emperor confronts the PCs and is impressed by their prowess in getting so far. When informed of the party’s goals he is perfectly happy to let them take the stuffy old object which he said had belonged to his grandfather and which he had not been particularly fond of. He even invited them to take a small portion of the other treasures so long as they did not take any of the offerings of food. It is not something that I would do in all my games but it was so contrary that it made for a very enjoyable and memorable game session.
This is perfectly in-line with what I discovered as I started GMing. Creating NPCs and groups of NPCs with their own goals leads into very dynamic GMing. I can alter the goals and directions of NPCs and groups to come into conflict with the goals of the PCs, as needed and as makes the most sense, then see how things play out. It's much less prep work, and leaves me with bigger bang-for-my-buck tools at the table.
fuck i love doing this. I write all my NPCs with basic goals and wants, so when the player interacts with one theres always a chance for more story beats. It helps so much with more freeform sessions
6:55 You cannot deny that an encounter like that would make for an entertaining story that is long told after, and would probably result in the players either being 100% paranoid about it every step of the way, or them trying to adopt that monster.
Great video. Really like this concept. One gap for using this method for more inexperienced GM's is knowing how npc's and monsters would go about going towards their goals, or even what their goals would be. I think it might be obvious for people with years of experience in fantasy media and roleplaying, but even something as simple as the ogres wanting to weave mats just might be hard to come up with for someone with less experience. It would be great if you could make a video on resources for building that experience; maybe novels or movies you recommend to build up a repertoire of character types and their goals.
Somewhat recently, in the homebrew I DM, the party was going up against a sliver of a mad Goddess. I had an entire combat planned out, but instead, they roleplayed talking through her chaos magic-induced crazy. Good rolls, great RP... hours of prep out the window. Totally worth it. I had to change things on the fly, but I knew her broken perspective. I was almost giddy that they came up with an idea I hadn't considered.
This opens lots of options indeed... Only drawback I see is that when before you had to plan an adventure as tightly or loosely you liked, now you have to cook up lots of NPCs with which the PCs might or might not encounter or oppose. I wish we get later ideas about how to handle this burden because I'm at least terrible conjuring anything up on the fly.
If you're bad at doing it on the fly, do it in advance. Buy a pack of index cards and make one NPC on one of them when you have a spare minute to work on your game. Don't attach a location to them, don't even attach a race to them. Name, Gender, Goals, Obstacles, Maybe Class and Level. That's it. Then you slowly build up a deck of NPCs that you can randomly draw from as needed, and you can assign them their race and appearance based on where the players are.
@@priestesslucy3299the name and gender probably dont matter either if the dynamic part that determines actions is their motivations/goals. I think gender is more of just another layer of detail that would change social interaction but not entirely the action of the game id even say the quantity of such npc shouldnt be tied down either, is it one, two, several npcs with this goal/motivation? could work. maybe its just motivations and goals while everything else is a detail or quantity/quality subject to change
This is what I’ve learned DMing basically that you can’t plan you can just have an area they are in and react accordingly based off who’s around and who they seek out so this video is great.
Was a little bit confused at the beginning but then i realized it was because i´m still planing my adventures like this for some time now. In the aftermath i think you decribed this concept quite well. I could agree that for some people it might be easier to roll it in the old fashioned way (My players want combat - here are some orks) as to come up with goals or some deeper reasons these kreatures might have. For me the greatest but is the ability of the given GM to react during the game when something unexpected is comming his way. Also he has to check NPC goals on a regular basis which also could be end up in work, depending on how many NPC you have runnning arround your space
This is probably one of the best pieces of advice for a new GM. Learning to react as a DM instead of having to write everything out beforehand will take so much of the dread away from new GM's who think they have to plan everything out instead. I'm glad to see you put this video as one of the first in this new series, and wishing you all the best. That said, I'm not sure if it was just me, but I had to listen very closely to understand just what you were saying. I wish the advice had been put forward a little more... directly.
people are so different haha. A lot of new GM's I know overplan everything because their dread is having to improv haha. funny to hear you talk about GM's who DON'T want to plan out every detail haha.
@@bonzwah1 I actually think we're talking about the same thing. I think a GM who feels comfortable won't have to plan as much. The GM's you mentioned are nervous so they plan a lot. Hopefully this video will help new GM's feel comfortable and therefore not have to plan as much.
Massive thanks for making these videos Guy! Even as someone who has GM'd for years, there can be long stretches of time where I have nothing going on, and work and RL take up time, and then I start forgetting the important bits of what it means to be a GM. And recently I started planning again after a long downtime and I got lost in a rabbit hole of "how on earth do I even begin to plan all this?"... "Hmm maybe *Guy* can help me out?!" Quick search, BAM, posted 5 frikkin' days ago, and here's this video answering E.X.A.C.T.L.Y. what I was wreaking my brains over hahaha. You're a godsend Guy!
Great video, thanks! I'm about to run a campaign that's essentially putting this advice on steroids -- a goddess of Destiny has ascended to power, meaning everyone in my world begins pursuing their own sense of fate or destiny with a vengeance, leading to massive conflicts and upheaval. I have no specific plot -- just a ton of NPC's with strong goals and a deep desire to achieve them. The campaign is called 'The Destiny War' and it's going to follow the exact advice of this video (to the nth degree). Thanks again for reinforcing this approach.
This is a way of thinking that I have come to since reading a lot of OSR modules. (Tomb of Black Sand, The Dark of Hot springs Island, etc.) That are so much about factions and faction goals. Also, reaction rolls are great. Rolling to see how the NPC/monster starts out disposed toward the party.
This has been my method for adventure creation for many many years now. I create NPC's and figure out their personalities and their goals and they react to the players. I have several sites already made that are points of interest but the adventure related to those sites usually comes from the players and NPC interaction that align or diverge from the players. I make a lot of monsters and NPCs on the fly (which does slow things down from time to time) and that seems to feel more "real" to my players. I have two groups that I've been playing with for 7 years now. One has had a few change outs in cast but three of the players have been permanent fixtures. The other group hasn't changed in years. I must be doing something right, right?
then don't make them rational and trusting. As long as your players are bought in then you can do whatever you want. I agree that his examples are ridiculous, but his underlying points have merit.
This video. This is the one that FINALLY made me understand how to run DnD without having to meticulously craft and micromanage a fun adventure. I've even heard much of this before, but for some reason, the way you've explained it here has made it click. Goals = Possible Stories. Goals coming into conflict creates a series of Actions and Reactions, which is the Story. The Story/Adventure ends when the driving goal is achieved or abandoned. In other words, I not only don't have to write the adventure; I SHOULDN'T. I literally just see what the PCs want to do, ask myself what the NPCs/Monster's goals are and whether they're in opposition to the PCs, and roleplay (y'know, like a Player instead of a scared author!). The result IS the adventure, and one more dynamic than any attempt to "write" one would've been! I can see how this flows into having a worldspace that's less of a burden now, too, but that comes later. I'm almost mad that I've been so worried about this for, and I'm not kidding, YEARS of being petrified of being a DM. I've finally got my foot properly in the door of "getting it." I'm losing my mind. Thank you so, so much for this series.
I think I missed the part where you explained the EPIC part of this method of story creation. It sounds like this is great for small adventures, and individual encounters, but how do you weave a truly epic tale that includes each player’s backstory and drops hints along the way and have it all culminate in some jaw-dropping reveal at the end? How do you do that without planning and setting things up?
Did you ever play Burning Wheel? Every character has 3 beliefs which are all things the character wants and will have trouble getting. The GM’s role is to put obstacles snd NPCs in place to challenge those beliefs. Because it’s so open you can have shopkeeper PCs with just as much game to play as adventurer PCs.
This definitely feels more in line with my instincts than the approach you'd been discussing a few years ago on the channel, mainly because it allows for narratives where the PCs are the ones who's goals are driving the action rather than them existing to stop the NPCs. (And, well, I've always had a soft spot for the perilous journey narrative - The protagonists want to get home/reach a new home/etc really badly and are having trouble getting it because it's 70,000 light years away/they're lost in another dimension/they're stranded on an island/they're animals and humans/predators exist) My two main questions would be - Does it make sense to think of locations and/or organizations as having goals - A mountain might 'want' quiet and start an avalanche directed if it starts to stop getting that - obviously within the narrative it's an inert bit of rock (unless it isn't, fantasy worlds and all that) but in terms of thinking about 'should an avalanche happen' - Sort of burying non-sapient causality within this framework? When does it make sense for someone's goal to change rather than getting fulfilled and then moving off of the narrative table? A lot of stories pivot partway through in terms of what the protagonists, or antagonists, are wanting. The protagonists made it home... But their home is now being invaded by an antagonist they had encountered previously. The antagonist was thwarted, they survived, but now wants revenge. More common in longer form stories - television shows in particular but also novels - than films, perhaps, but you do see them in film from time to time. Under this concept, do you have suggestions of when to drop the piece from the narrative board vs to shift their goals, or is that still just down to instinct?
It's cool to see you discussing this because I'd actually been thinking, lately, that I'd rather have my players tell me what they as players want to do and prepare around that, rather than just *presenting* them with something. Because that could get them much more invested. Like, they all get together and they tell me "we want to start a private detective agency" or something. Because otherwise, to some extent, you need to tell *them* how their own players would react to whatever scenario you're tossing at them. But I also feel like that requires a far more *proactive* player than most, the sort of player who's probably currently acting as a forever GM with their own group of players who don't think that much. Most players, you need to toss them a ball first.
I've found with a lot of players they can be supported into becoming proactive. Help them figure out who their character really is, where they came from and what makes them tick. Help them come up with goals that the player is excited to pursue and help them come up with some short term goals to move them in that direction. That's how I always approach a roleplaying experience, character first. Yes I will try to get my character to find a way or a reason to join a group and bond to them enough to keep working with them... But at the end of the day she's an actual (fictional) person with her own goals and dreams and _purpose._ She's not just a game piece in a 3-6 squad game waiting on someone to tell her what is available to do.
To add a little to the idea of the monsters/NPCs who live in the dungeon, and the PCs offer them a castle instead, the offer should not immediately end the conflict, because anyone could lie about such an exchange. A non-lethal encounter is still an encounter, and either through combat or negotiation, the PCs are trying to achieve something, but they need a risk of failure to be invested in the story. Failing to persuade the monsters/NPCs to hand over the dungeon in exchange for a castle means the non-lethal encounter becomes a lethal encounter, and the PCs need to prepare for battle instead of diplomacy. A band of Goblins, Orcs, Ogres, Gnolls, or Yuan-Ti might attack intruders on sight for any reason, or they might opt for diplomacy and negotiation if they feel they have the option to do so, either from watching/talking with the PCs, or from their prior experiences with similar groups and parties. It's all based on the situation and scenario, and some of those factors are inevitably going to be outside of the PCs' control, which isn't a bad thing. They could make the perfect argument, but if it falls on the ears of one who doesn't care what they have to say, then it doesn't matter. That is, of course, why we have PCs roll, instead of just hand them what they ask for on a silver platter. As a DM, my strategy for planning encounters isn't to come up with conflicts or resolutions, but to come up with characters that have means and motive, place those characters in the world to be encountered, and that encounter must *always* have the chance to be violent or non-violent, but that's something I don't get to decide. I leave that to the dice, because that's where I believe the power should be, which is also why I always roll in full view of the players whenever I am able. If the PCs roll high enough Persuasion, Deception, Insight, or whatever is called for, then they deserve to be rewarded, but the reason I make them roll is because of the possibility of failure that must exist to give the story its stakes.
This is a a major way I've built my campaigns for years. I really came across doing this pretty organically over 20 years ago when I was GMing my first campaign and I had designed the whole thing around several NPCs. They had their own goals and designs and that very successfully drove the game forward for a very long time since they were always opposed to the PCs. I've done the same ever since. I don't think it relieves me entirely of planning individual sessions though. I know what my NPCs are planning to do. I know what my PCs are generally planning to do. So it allows me to plan for the different challenges they'll encounter during a session depending on their action. That still allows me to bring handouts, images, maps and such to a session.
This is such a great shift in perspective that I think I have been slowly progressing toward, without realizing it. It's really helpful to have it laid out clearly thank you! I'm going to be trying to more actively utilize this thought process. I have some current antagonist npcs with grandiose plans so I wanna go through those plans now more purposefully looking at their desires and goals to see what may need tweaking and to be more prepared for things to manifest during play! Thank you for this! -Dan
Such an amazing concept. It goals = story has completely changed my mindset when dming. Instead of working myself to death trying to come up with this great story, I can relax and create the story with my players and that is a great feeling.
This sounds like a really interesting way to try and program a populations AI in an RPG and see if the players themselves can end up creating a plot just by being around
he doesn't mean you should create the entire world first and populate it. He's just saying that when you make shit up to throw at the players, for their motivation to be something grounded rather than for their motivation to just be fucking with the players you know?
Thank you Guy, you're a real pro! Havn't GM'd (or roleplayed at all for that matter) in years.. but, i just love your creative way of looking at these things. Cheers from Sweden!
Hey Guy a very informative video yet again! I really enjoyed watching this Video. I also wanted to ask you if you could maybe talk about how to set scenery narrative-wise because i struggle a lot with good descriptions of the surroundings. Would be very useful for me. But yeah keep up the good work!
I love your GM philosophy. Do you talk about how to come up with these NPC/Monster goals? I feel as if that's still putting the GM on the spot to invent something.
Thanks for this reinforcement! I’ve planned an overarching plot for my campaign based on your earlier videos. As my party nears the end of the first arc, I am taking more of a player driven approach to the next bit. Ultimately two of my players are on the cusp of reaching the goal given from the very beginning, but the real threat hasn’t been thwarted yet and so that is still affecting their world. However I must admit to wondering how I’m going to get all these threads tied in a bow in the end.
As I watched this I understand the concept completely. Or well mostly anyway... I think back to campaigns I've watched before, stories I've read and games I have played and found that this is consistently present. However, I get the feeling this may be brought up later but for now, I'm saying it nonetheless: how would you begin this cycle? The Demon Lord has to be born for them to try to conquer the world after all. The incidents leading up to that moment would have their actions and reactions that net together themselves as well. It's like a web of fate, flexible and ever-shifting. The simple question is what is that first domino? What sets off that cycle of actions and reactions that could tear the heavens from the sky and freeze hell over into a tundra? This term here, plot, is something I'm using loosely to represent a narrative that forms throughout the game. Players of course wish for there to be some ‘big bad’ or major adversary after all. The Demon Lord as mentioned above. It would be their goal that sets everything into motion... Because without considering that first domino a plot would, in my mind, have some difficulty forming... Not that I haven't gotten some idea from writing this all out but I regardless feel the need to post it anyway as a general follow up thought. Though I do feel like I'm rushing a bit by typing this, what feels like an essay here, for something that I can tell will be explained in a later video so I'll conclude it bluntly by asking my question once more. In a world of millions, if not billions, of goals stretching out across the multiverse, where does a plot truly begin?
_What?_ That doesn't make any sense at all... You deliver their perception yes... But their interpretation of that perception and their thoughts and feelings are theirs alone to roleplay
"GMs can not know outcomes, because they don't know what's going to happen." - So true! GMs need to stop assuming outcomes. This is why some GMs fudge dice, to force the outcome they want. GMs should not be forcing outcomes.
I like this perspective. However, some creatures are simply territorial. That too is a goal - to be infinitely reactionary about it’s territory - like in the movie ‘Aliens’. So the monsters become a minefield for the story about human subterfuge.
That's not exactly true. Yes most monsters are willing to eat people, but there are dozens of reasons they might not want to eat _you._ Maybe they don't like how people taste, maybe they've seen others of their race go mad from consuming sentient flesh. Maybe they have plenty of food so there's no reason to take the risk to try to eat you. The list goes on and on. Unless compelled to, the monsters aren't just enemies with a singular purpose to oppose you. Even the unintelligent ones are just trying to live their lives the best way they know how. Maybe that griffon is attacking you because you're too close to the nest. Or maybe that serpent is rattling it's tail to warn you to back away slowly so it doesn't have to bite you. Etc etc
This all could work well, unless you have something close murder-hobo party 😀 (for example they just assume that every creature in dungeon is hostile and open dialog with fireball)
"'...no I just live here. But all that gold? No I don't do anything with it...' No npc says that" Sir, I am totally going to have an npc say that! Don't know what, or what it's goal is yet, but that will be funny and memorable. Maybe it's lying, maybe not... this will be fun.
@@priestesslucy3299 oh I like the idea of an ascetic. Could go crazy/goofy style or a hard-core ascetic who helps the world by hoarding treasure AWAY from the world to remove its temptation from others. Very judgmental of anyone showing interest in the treasure.
I have a question, The way you talk about story here and the way you talk about story in Creating Epic Campaigns seems to colide. maybe i did not understand well.
I feel like this video has such a nice point, but its really disorganized. I feel like it would be cool if you could glance through this comments section and use what you see to create a clarification video to directly addresses common misunderstandings. - For example, I believe that you are really only suggesting for npc's and monsters to have grounded goals rather than just having the goal of opposing the players. but reading through the comments, a lot of people got the idea that you are telling them to flesh out an entire world and populate it with npc's with motivations before the players ever interact with anything. I don't think that's what you meant, but I could be wrong.
This video is completely self-contradictory. “The GM doesn’t need to tell a story or do a bunch of work to create a game. They just need to come up with an overarching plot, create a bunch of NPCs that will attempt to execute it, and design all of the settings and locations where the NPCs will be carrying out their plans.” 🤦♂️ Yes, the GM has to tell a story. They don’t have to tell the PCs story, but they do have tell the NPCs story, otherwise you get murder hobos wandering around doing home invasions until they get bored and start a cider orchard. If that’s the game you want to play, fine, but you’re watching the wrong channel.
How do I understand this video?... Imagine a combat where the opponents are behind cover firing arrows. Combat would continue until death. Then strangely the opponents go quiet for a minute. No arrows... The PCs are surprised by that behavior. Did they flee? Are they sneaking behind? ... Then a stick with a white flag pops up from cover and begins to wave back and forth. Is it a trick? Are they surrendering? Why would they want to talk?... The options open up and the results depend upon how the PCs respond.
I'm sorry, but I don't think Monsters are always going to agree to move to a Castle that the players hand to them when present with the offer. This is assuming that the monsters you're referring to are things like Goblins, Orc, etc. First off, in most setting these Monsters hate humans, dwarves, and Elves. They are not going to trust that these people are dealing with them in faith. They will expect a trap or a bait and switch situation. I also don't understand why you would assume as a GM that Monsters wouldn't want to keep the treasure... What makes you think that none of these monsters use gold to trade with other groups or individuals? Though some of this really just comes down to What game setting we are talking about. In D&D setting, it's pretty laughable. If it was Glorantha, then sure but then those aren't monsters in that game.
Can I make a request that you stop using the slow zoom in? I find it very distracting and a tiny bit jittery. I'm guessing that's because it's a digital zoom. I like the video otherwise, it's just a little hard to watch.
Again, why can't the specific chapters that identify each of these videos be put in the title of the video? I would like to make sure that I save these in correct order so that everyone on my discord server can see them and not miss any of them. How hard is that
Hey! Thanks for the feedback! We try to keep our titles clear and succinct and have created a playlist specifically for this series because of this. The thumbnails have also been numbered accordingly for this series. Hope this helps!
I totally disagree this time. The goal of a GM is NOT pure opposition. It is to: create an awesome drama that draws the heroes in, and challenges them to be the solution. Then stories can have not only fights, but also dilemmas, evil lords, flawed kings about one may doubt if they're worth helping, or masculine barbarians suppressing their women, but are also awesome allies. This offers the players big questions, mistakes, wrong choices and even right choices with wrong outcomes. Now that is a struggle. ...and then we come to the same conclusion, a world that feels alive.
*Thanks for watching!* Let us know in the comments below your thoughts on where epic stories come from.
Intrigued by the information in this video? Check out our latest book The Practical Guide to Becoming a Great GM - on pre-order here: bit.ly/3EDNbmK
Very gracefully laid out description of the story (action-reaction-reaction-until there aren't any more, and done.)
The joke about the NPC saying ‘all that gold, I don’t do anything with it’ is quite similar to something that I had in a tomb once. The PCs were required to steal a specific relic from the tomb of an Emperor. They manage to get in and get past the wards set up by the tombs builders (whose decision were made entirely separately from the tombs inhabitant) and find themselves in the chamber that contains the relic and also the spirit of the emperor that it belonged to. The dead emperor confronts the PCs and is impressed by their prowess in getting so far. When informed of the party’s goals he is perfectly happy to let them take the stuffy old object which he said had belonged to his grandfather and which he had not been particularly fond of. He even invited them to take a small portion of the other treasures so long as they did not take any of the offerings of food. It is not something that I would do in all my games but it was so contrary that it made for a very enjoyable and memorable game session.
This is perfectly in-line with what I discovered as I started GMing. Creating NPCs and groups of NPCs with their own goals leads into very dynamic GMing. I can alter the goals and directions of NPCs and groups to come into conflict with the goals of the PCs, as needed and as makes the most sense, then see how things play out. It's much less prep work, and leaves me with bigger bang-for-my-buck tools at the table.
fuck i love doing this. I write all my NPCs with basic goals and wants, so when the player interacts with one theres always a chance for more story beats. It helps so much with more freeform sessions
I love the paradigm shift that happened here over the last few years.
6:55 You cannot deny that an encounter like that would make for an entertaining story that is long told after, and would probably result in the players either being 100% paranoid about it every step of the way, or them trying to adopt that monster.
Great video. Really like this concept. One gap for using this method for more inexperienced GM's is knowing how npc's and monsters would go about going towards their goals, or even what their goals would be. I think it might be obvious for people with years of experience in fantasy media and roleplaying, but even something as simple as the ogres wanting to weave mats just might be hard to come up with for someone with less experience. It would be great if you could make a video on resources for building that experience; maybe novels or movies you recommend to build up a repertoire of character types and their goals.
Oh my goodness, this was 100% the "lightbulb moment" video for me. Thank you SO much!
Hey man, trying to write my very first campaign and your videos have been a godsend! Well done my guy!
Somewhat recently, in the homebrew I DM, the party was going up against a sliver of a mad Goddess. I had an entire combat planned out, but instead, they roleplayed talking through her chaos magic-induced crazy. Good rolls, great RP... hours of prep out the window. Totally worth it. I had to change things on the fly, but I knew her broken perspective. I was almost giddy that they came up with an idea I hadn't considered.
This opens lots of options indeed...
Only drawback I see is that when before you had to plan an adventure as tightly or loosely you liked, now you have to cook up lots of NPCs with which the PCs might or might not encounter or oppose. I wish we get later ideas about how to handle this burden because I'm at least terrible conjuring anything up on the fly.
If you're bad at doing it on the fly, do it in advance.
Buy a pack of index cards and make one NPC on one of them when you have a spare minute to work on your game.
Don't attach a location to them, don't even attach a race to them.
Name, Gender, Goals, Obstacles, Maybe Class and Level. That's it.
Then you slowly build up a deck of NPCs that you can randomly draw from as needed, and you can assign them their race and appearance based on where the players are.
@@priestesslucy3299the name and gender probably dont matter either if the dynamic part that determines actions is their motivations/goals. I think gender is more of just another layer of detail that would change social interaction but not entirely the action of the game
id even say the quantity of such npc shouldnt be tied down either, is it one, two, several npcs with this goal/motivation? could work.
maybe its just motivations and goals while everything else is a detail or quantity/quality subject to change
The "thinking in goals" approach reminds me of Aristotle.
This is what I’ve learned DMing basically that you can’t plan you can just have an area they are in and react accordingly based off who’s around and who they seek out so this video is great.
I’ve started creating NPCs with goals and can’t wait to see how they interact with each other and the PCs.
This is essentially how I run and inform combat
Was a little bit confused at the beginning but then i realized it was because i´m still planing my adventures like this for some time now. In the aftermath i think you decribed this concept quite well. I could agree that for some people it might be easier to roll it in the old fashioned way (My players want combat - here are some orks) as to come up with goals or some deeper reasons these kreatures might have. For me the greatest but is the ability of the given GM to react during the game when something unexpected is comming his way. Also he has to check NPC goals on a regular basis which also could be end up in work, depending on how many NPC you have runnning arround your space
This is probably one of the best pieces of advice for a new GM. Learning to react as a DM instead of having to write everything out beforehand will take so much of the dread away from new GM's who think they have to plan everything out instead. I'm glad to see you put this video as one of the first in this new series, and wishing you all the best.
That said, I'm not sure if it was just me, but I had to listen very closely to understand just what you were saying. I wish the advice had been put forward a little more... directly.
people are so different haha. A lot of new GM's I know overplan everything because their dread is having to improv haha. funny to hear you talk about GM's who DON'T want to plan out every detail haha.
@@bonzwah1 I actually think we're talking about the same thing. I think a GM who feels comfortable won't have to plan as much. The GM's you mentioned are nervous so they plan a lot. Hopefully this video will help new GM's feel comfortable and therefore not have to plan as much.
Massive thanks for making these videos Guy!
Even as someone who has GM'd for years, there can be long stretches of time where I have nothing going on, and work and RL take up time, and then I start forgetting the important bits of what it means to be a GM. And recently I started planning again after a long downtime and I got lost in a rabbit hole of "how on earth do I even begin to plan all this?"... "Hmm maybe *Guy* can help me out?!"
Quick search, BAM, posted 5 frikkin' days ago, and here's this video answering E.X.A.C.T.L.Y. what I was wreaking my brains over hahaha.
You're a godsend Guy!
Great video, thanks! I'm about to run a campaign that's essentially putting this advice on steroids -- a goddess of Destiny has ascended to power, meaning everyone in my world begins pursuing their own sense of fate or destiny with a vengeance, leading to massive conflicts and upheaval. I have no specific plot -- just a ton of NPC's with strong goals and a deep desire to achieve them. The campaign is called 'The Destiny War' and it's going to follow the exact advice of this video (to the nth degree). Thanks again for reinforcing this approach.
Have a good day everyone reading this!
This is a way of thinking that I have come to since reading a lot of OSR modules. (Tomb of Black Sand, The Dark of Hot springs Island, etc.) That are so much about factions and faction goals.
Also, reaction rolls are great. Rolling to see how the NPC/monster starts out disposed toward the party.
This has been my method for adventure creation for many many years now. I create NPC's and figure out their personalities and their goals and they react to the players. I have several sites already made that are points of interest but the adventure related to those sites usually comes from the players and NPC interaction that align or diverge from the players. I make a lot of monsters and NPCs on the fly (which does slow things down from time to time) and that seems to feel more "real" to my players. I have two groups that I've been playing with for 7 years now. One has had a few change outs in cast but three of the players have been permanent fixtures. The other group hasn't changed in years. I must be doing something right, right?
The NPCs described here are awfully rational and trusting. I don't know how realistic that is.
then don't make them rational and trusting. As long as your players are bought in then you can do whatever you want. I agree that his examples are ridiculous, but his underlying points have merit.
This video. This is the one that FINALLY made me understand how to run DnD without having to meticulously craft and micromanage a fun adventure. I've even heard much of this before, but for some reason, the way you've explained it here has made it click. Goals = Possible Stories. Goals coming into conflict creates a series of Actions and Reactions, which is the Story. The Story/Adventure ends when the driving goal is achieved or abandoned. In other words, I not only don't have to write the adventure; I SHOULDN'T. I literally just see what the PCs want to do, ask myself what the NPCs/Monster's goals are and whether they're in opposition to the PCs, and roleplay (y'know, like a Player instead of a scared author!). The result IS the adventure, and one more dynamic than any attempt to "write" one would've been! I can see how this flows into having a worldspace that's less of a burden now, too, but that comes later.
I'm almost mad that I've been so worried about this for, and I'm not kidding, YEARS of being petrified of being a DM. I've finally got my foot properly in the door of "getting it." I'm losing my mind. Thank you so, so much for this series.
I'm glad to hear this. Thank you for sharing!
I think I missed the part where you explained the EPIC part of this method of story creation. It sounds like this is great for small adventures, and individual encounters, but how do you weave a truly epic tale that includes each player’s backstory and drops hints along the way and have it all culminate in some jaw-dropping reveal at the end? How do you do that without planning and setting things up?
You string it together as you go.
Honestly I find that method a whole lot easier than trying to write it all up in advance and plot it out
@@priestesslucy3299 yes but somehow, you can't know every monster sheet by heart so it's still kinda tricky
Did you ever play Burning Wheel? Every character has 3 beliefs which are all things the character wants and will have trouble getting. The GM’s role is to put obstacles snd NPCs in place to challenge those beliefs. Because it’s so open you can have shopkeeper PCs with just as much game to play as adventurer PCs.
This definitely feels more in line with my instincts than the approach you'd been discussing a few years ago on the channel, mainly because it allows for narratives where the PCs are the ones who's goals are driving the action rather than them existing to stop the NPCs. (And, well, I've always had a soft spot for the perilous journey narrative - The protagonists want to get home/reach a new home/etc really badly and are having trouble getting it because it's 70,000 light years away/they're lost in another dimension/they're stranded on an island/they're animals and humans/predators exist)
My two main questions would be - Does it make sense to think of locations and/or organizations as having goals - A mountain might 'want' quiet and start an avalanche directed if it starts to stop getting that - obviously within the narrative it's an inert bit of rock (unless it isn't, fantasy worlds and all that) but in terms of thinking about 'should an avalanche happen' - Sort of burying non-sapient causality within this framework?
When does it make sense for someone's goal to change rather than getting fulfilled and then moving off of the narrative table? A lot of stories pivot partway through in terms of what the protagonists, or antagonists, are wanting. The protagonists made it home... But their home is now being invaded by an antagonist they had encountered previously. The antagonist was thwarted, they survived, but now wants revenge. More common in longer form stories - television shows in particular but also novels - than films, perhaps, but you do see them in film from time to time. Under this concept, do you have suggestions of when to drop the piece from the narrative board vs to shift their goals, or is that still just down to instinct?
I think druids would agree mountain's have wants
I have never thought of running a game like this. Thank you so much for describing it that way.
It's cool to see you discussing this because I'd actually been thinking, lately, that I'd rather have my players tell me what they as players want to do and prepare around that, rather than just *presenting* them with something. Because that could get them much more invested. Like, they all get together and they tell me "we want to start a private detective agency" or something. Because otherwise, to some extent, you need to tell *them* how their own players would react to whatever scenario you're tossing at them.
But I also feel like that requires a far more *proactive* player than most, the sort of player who's probably currently acting as a forever GM with their own group of players who don't think that much. Most players, you need to toss them a ball first.
I've found with a lot of players they can be supported into becoming proactive.
Help them figure out who their character really is, where they came from and what makes them tick. Help them come up with goals that the player is excited to pursue and help them come up with some short term goals to move them in that direction.
That's how I always approach a roleplaying experience, character first. Yes I will try to get my character to find a way or a reason to join a group and bond to them enough to keep working with them... But at the end of the day she's an actual (fictional) person with her own goals and dreams and _purpose._ She's not just a game piece in a 3-6 squad game waiting on someone to tell her what is available to do.
To add a little to the idea of the monsters/NPCs who live in the dungeon, and the PCs offer them a castle instead, the offer should not immediately end the conflict, because anyone could lie about such an exchange. A non-lethal encounter is still an encounter, and either through combat or negotiation, the PCs are trying to achieve something, but they need a risk of failure to be invested in the story. Failing to persuade the monsters/NPCs to hand over the dungeon in exchange for a castle means the non-lethal encounter becomes a lethal encounter, and the PCs need to prepare for battle instead of diplomacy. A band of Goblins, Orcs, Ogres, Gnolls, or Yuan-Ti might attack intruders on sight for any reason, or they might opt for diplomacy and negotiation if they feel they have the option to do so, either from watching/talking with the PCs, or from their prior experiences with similar groups and parties. It's all based on the situation and scenario, and some of those factors are inevitably going to be outside of the PCs' control, which isn't a bad thing. They could make the perfect argument, but if it falls on the ears of one who doesn't care what they have to say, then it doesn't matter. That is, of course, why we have PCs roll, instead of just hand them what they ask for on a silver platter.
As a DM, my strategy for planning encounters isn't to come up with conflicts or resolutions, but to come up with characters that have means and motive, place those characters in the world to be encountered, and that encounter must *always* have the chance to be violent or non-violent, but that's something I don't get to decide. I leave that to the dice, because that's where I believe the power should be, which is also why I always roll in full view of the players whenever I am able. If the PCs roll high enough Persuasion, Deception, Insight, or whatever is called for, then they deserve to be rewarded, but the reason I make them roll is because of the possibility of failure that must exist to give the story its stakes.
This is a a major way I've built my campaigns for years. I really came across doing this pretty organically over 20 years ago when I was GMing my first campaign and I had designed the whole thing around several NPCs. They had their own goals and designs and that very successfully drove the game forward for a very long time since they were always opposed to the PCs. I've done the same ever since. I don't think it relieves me entirely of planning individual sessions though. I know what my NPCs are planning to do. I know what my PCs are generally planning to do. So it allows me to plan for the different challenges they'll encounter during a session depending on their action. That still allows me to bring handouts, images, maps and such to a session.
This is such a great shift in perspective that I think I have been slowly progressing toward, without realizing it. It's really helpful to have it laid out clearly thank you! I'm going to be trying to more actively utilize this thought process. I have some current antagonist npcs with grandiose plans so I wanna go through those plans now more purposefully looking at their desires and goals to see what may need tweaking and to be more prepared for things to manifest during play! Thank you for this!
-Dan
Such an amazing concept. It goals = story has completely changed my mindset when dming. Instead of working myself to death trying to come up with this great story, I can relax and create the story with my players and that is a great feeling.
This sounds like a really interesting way to try and program a populations AI in an RPG and see if the players themselves can end up creating a plot just by being around
he doesn't mean you should create the entire world first and populate it. He's just saying that when you make shit up to throw at the players, for their motivation to be something grounded rather than for their motivation to just be fucking with the players you know?
Thank you Guy, you're a real pro!
Havn't GM'd (or roleplayed at all for that matter) in years.. but, i just love your creative way of looking at these things.
Cheers from Sweden!
Really great video about making - or not making - a story! Thank you for publishing this just in the right time. ;-)
As a new DM, this was great!
Hey Guy a very informative video yet again! I really enjoyed watching this Video. I also wanted to ask you if you could maybe talk about how to set scenery narrative-wise because i struggle a lot with good descriptions of the surroundings. Would be very useful for me. But yeah keep up the good work!
I love your GM philosophy.
Do you talk about how to come up with these NPC/Monster goals? I feel as if that's still putting the GM on the spot to invent something.
Amazing advice as always, Guy! Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for this reinforcement! I’ve planned an overarching plot for my campaign based on your earlier videos. As my party nears the end of the first arc, I am taking more of a player driven approach to the next bit. Ultimately two of my players are on the cusp of reaching the goal given from the very beginning, but the real threat hasn’t been thwarted yet and so that is still affecting their world. However I must admit to wondering how I’m going to get all these threads tied in a bow in the end.
As I watched this I understand the concept completely. Or well mostly anyway... I think back to campaigns I've watched before, stories I've read and games I have played and found that this is consistently present.
However, I get the feeling this may be brought up later but for now, I'm saying it nonetheless: how would you begin this cycle?
The Demon Lord has to be born for them to try to conquer the world after all. The incidents leading up to that moment would have their actions and reactions that net together themselves as well. It's like a web of fate, flexible and ever-shifting.
The simple question is what is that first domino? What sets off that cycle of actions and reactions that could tear the heavens from the sky and freeze hell over into a tundra?
This term here, plot, is something I'm using loosely to represent a narrative that forms throughout the game. Players of course wish for there to be some ‘big bad’ or major adversary after all. The Demon Lord as mentioned above. It would be their goal that sets everything into motion...
Because without considering that first domino a plot would, in my mind, have some difficulty forming... Not that I haven't gotten some idea from writing this all out but I regardless feel the need to post it anyway as a general follow up thought. Though I do feel like I'm rushing a bit by typing this, what feels like an essay here, for something that I can tell will be explained in a later video so I'll conclude it bluntly by asking my question once more.
In a world of millions, if not billions, of goals stretching out across the multiverse, where does a plot truly begin?
It begins the same way every ripple of plot begins.
When a pebble is thrown into the pond.
Nearning - is only possessed by the yearning
This was by far the coolest video and brain shift I have heard about since I had started thinking about GMing about 3 years ago
As gm you are roleplying the perception of the pcs and their thoughts and feelings
_What?_
That doesn't make any sense at all...
You deliver their perception yes... But their interpretation of that perception and their thoughts and feelings are theirs alone to roleplay
"GMs can not know outcomes, because they don't know what's going to happen." - So true! GMs need to stop assuming outcomes. This is why some GMs fudge dice, to force the outcome they want. GMs should not be forcing outcomes.
Love this! MOAR!!
I like this perspective. However, some creatures are simply territorial. That too is a goal - to be infinitely reactionary about it’s territory - like in the movie ‘Aliens’. So the monsters become a minefield for the story about human subterfuge.
here we gooo
this is a very good series, thank you
I wish i could do more than just like this video!
9:04 LOL Human raiders would be a better example. It's hard to negotiate with creatures that want to eat you, which is what a monster is.
That's not exactly true.
Yes most monsters are willing to eat people, but there are dozens of reasons they might not want to eat _you._
Maybe they don't like how people taste, maybe they've seen others of their race go mad from consuming sentient flesh. Maybe they have plenty of food so there's no reason to take the risk to try to eat you. The list goes on and on.
Unless compelled to, the monsters aren't just enemies with a singular purpose to oppose you. Even the unintelligent ones are just trying to live their lives the best way they know how.
Maybe that griffon is attacking you because you're too close to the nest.
Or maybe that serpent is rattling it's tail to warn you to back away slowly so it doesn't have to bite you.
Etc etc
This all could work well, unless you have something close murder-hobo party 😀 (for example they just assume that every creature in dungeon is hostile and open dialog with fireball)
Murder-hobos are a product of past experiences. They can be reeducated (with difficulty 😋)
"'...no I just live here. But all that gold? No I don't do anything with it...' No npc says that"
Sir, I am totally going to have an npc say that! Don't know what, or what it's goal is yet, but that will be funny and memorable. Maybe it's lying, maybe not... this will be fun.
Maybe it's Maybelline
But all jokes aside, maybe it's an ascetic or a druid or a fey (aside the ones that do crave treasure like leprechauns lol)
@@priestesslucy3299 oh I like the idea of an ascetic. Could go crazy/goofy style or a hard-core ascetic who helps the world by hoarding treasure AWAY from the world to remove its temptation from others. Very judgmental of anyone showing interest in the treasure.
very good thanks a lot
Is that a light up borg cube on the shelf? 😮
Not sure about all these camera zoom-ins and outs in the last few vids, seem to be done at random, jars with the tone at times
I have a question, The way you talk about story here and the way you talk about story in Creating Epic Campaigns seems to colide. maybe i did not understand well.
I feel like this video has such a nice point, but its really disorganized. I feel like it would be cool if you could glance through this comments section and use what you see to create a clarification video to directly addresses common misunderstandings.
-
For example, I believe that you are really only suggesting for npc's and monsters to have grounded goals rather than just having the goal of opposing the players. but reading through the comments, a lot of people got the idea that you are telling them to flesh out an entire world and populate it with npc's with motivations before the players ever interact with anything. I don't think that's what you meant, but I could be wrong.
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
This video is completely self-contradictory. “The GM doesn’t need to tell a story or do a bunch of work to create a game. They just need to come up with an overarching plot, create a bunch of NPCs that will attempt to execute it, and design all of the settings and locations where the NPCs will be carrying out their plans.” 🤦♂️
Yes, the GM has to tell a story. They don’t have to tell the PCs story, but they do have tell the NPCs story, otherwise you get murder hobos wandering around doing home invasions until they get bored and start a cider orchard. If that’s the game you want to play, fine, but you’re watching the wrong channel.
How do I understand this video?... Imagine a combat where the opponents are behind cover firing arrows. Combat would continue until death. Then strangely the opponents go quiet for a minute. No arrows... The PCs are surprised by that behavior. Did they flee? Are they sneaking behind? ... Then a stick with a white flag pops up from cover and begins to wave back and forth. Is it a trick? Are they surrendering? Why would they want to talk?... The options open up and the results depend upon how the PCs respond.
I'm sorry, but I don't think Monsters are always going to agree to move to a Castle that the players hand to them when present with the offer. This is assuming that the monsters you're referring to are things like Goblins, Orc, etc. First off, in most setting these Monsters hate humans, dwarves, and Elves. They are not going to trust that these people are dealing with them in faith. They will expect a trap or a bait and switch situation. I also don't understand why you would assume as a GM that Monsters wouldn't want to keep the treasure... What makes you think that none of these monsters use gold to trade with other groups or individuals?
Though some of this really just comes down to What game setting we are talking about. In D&D setting, it's pretty laughable. If it was Glorantha, then sure but then those aren't monsters in that game.
Can I make a request that you stop using the slow zoom in? I find it very distracting and a tiny bit jittery. I'm guessing that's because it's a digital zoom. I like the video otherwise, it's just a little hard to watch.
Again, why can't the specific chapters that identify each of these videos be put in the title of the video? I would like to make sure that I save these in correct order so that everyone on my discord server can see them and not miss any of them. How hard is that
Make a playlist or sort the videos by date
@@Aucacoyan yes I know, but wouldn't a popular RUclipsr take the time to label videos part 1, part 2 etc?
Hey! Thanks for the feedback!
We try to keep our titles clear and succinct and have created a playlist specifically for this series because of this. The thumbnails have also been numbered accordingly for this series.
Hope this helps!
I totally disagree this time. The goal of a GM is NOT pure opposition. It is to: create an awesome drama that draws the heroes in, and challenges them to be the solution. Then stories can have not only fights, but also dilemmas, evil lords, flawed kings about one may doubt if they're worth helping, or masculine barbarians suppressing their women, but are also awesome allies. This offers the players big questions, mistakes, wrong choices and even right choices with wrong outcomes. Now that is a struggle.
...and then we come to the same conclusion, a world that feels alive.