How AMD Won the Console Wars
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- AMD and Intel are both well know for providing processors for desktops and laptops. These two giants are in competition with each other for market share and performance records. However there is one market where AMD has 100% of the market share! This AMD's hidden empire.
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And nearly every handheld is using an AMD APU.
I do wonder if the explosion in PC gaming over the past decade would have happened without AMD moving consoles to x86...?
LIkely, but also it would probably been slower and smaller.
What explosion? It was always there if you include Asian markets.
Nothing to do with x86. During 8th gen console maker cheapen out on the hardware. The original xbox one still target 720p 30fps. PS4 a bit better at 1080p 30FPS. Even console gamer want better experience so some of them move to pc. That's why mid gen update happen during 8th gen. Something that never happen before. The interest for pc gaming was going up around this period to the point high end gaming hardware sales able to surpass mid range hardware sales in terms of revenue (JPR, 2016).
@@arenzricodexd4409 So this helps explain AMD’s relatively conservative designs, even for discrete graphics cards for desktop x86 machines: the big money for AMD has been in semi-customized versions of their gpu hardware developed for the console companies. The discrete graphics cards for PC’s simply are NOT as important to AMD as the mass-produced silicon made for Playstations or XBox, right?
@@rstewart2702 console give AMD stable income even if the profit is almost none. during 8th gen era despite winning the contract for PS and Xbox AMD revenue was in the red in each and every quarter. the company only start making real profit when the first Ryzen start selling. plus console maker also pressure AMD to sell those APU as cheap as possible. MS for one have always seen more manipulative in this aspect.
Another reason why AMD is because Intels iGPU's have been pretty terrible compared to AMD's until recently with Arc, but Arc also doesn't have good driver support that AMD has and Intel is playing catchup as now.
Intel gets some credit with their QuickSync engine being incredible on their iGPUs. For things like Plex transcoding servers its amazing and built right in. My i7-10700 with UHD 630 graphics can crank out a 4K blu-ray transcode just as quick as my Nvidia RTX A2000 12GB using almost no extra power. AMD's iGPUs are kind of terrible in this regard.
Intel focus on GPU only happen more recently. Before this intel pretty much satisfied if their igpu will work on desktop usage. They don't care that much for the gpu working properly in games.
This is an important point business wise. Game software makers are a bigger part of gaming than hardware and their strategic interests are in keeping support cost minimized while also avoiding giving monopoly power to any hardware maker. Apple has an installed base of absolutely awesome hardware, but their control of the platform is a turn-off for game developers. X86 having console, windows (appstore and direct download), and linux open source is the most attractive direction even without ISA superiority. By winning the consoles, AMD has given itself great support and optimization from game software developers. Even when Intel matches hardware performance ARC debugging and optimization are on Intels dime, not game developers.
Apple also has the problem of being second tier performance for way more money than bleeding edge and being locked down and blaming their customers for anything that goes wrong (bend-gate is just one minor example). When a 3k mac has issues getting half the score of an 1800 pc and the owner can't do anything to meaningfully upgrade it you know people mostly buy them out of ignorance or as status symbols or both.
@@kaseyboles30agreed, Apple can't hold a candle to high end PC's and is typically overpriced and underperforming in comparison.
@@Saif0412 Very true these days. The Woz in one of my hero's, but what's been done to and with the company he co-founded is truly sad. I would for there to be an honest alternate choice to wintel, but apple aint it.
The Nintendo GameCube, Wii and Wii U also came with ATI/AMD GPU’s.
On some of the last iterations of the xbox 360 they put the gpu and cpu on the same die apparently so amd started with that already in the 7th gen console.
AMD is working on an ARM based SOC APU. If I would be a betting man I would say the next console generation will run on an AMD APU with Armv9-A based CPU and RDNA 4 GPU
Why would they do that, there's no difference between ARM and modern X86, it's all about the design, go look at the new Zen 5, it's just like a M-series chip.
@@aviatedviewssound4798 we'll see
@@aviatedviewssound4798 You should wait for third party benchmarks, even on arm it depends current Qualcomm x elite don't have the same battery life compared to apple's M1 even...
I doubt it, not for console. At lower wattages arm can run circles around x85, but by the time you get to desktop/console level power Arm struggles. This makes sense given the historical focus for each. Also it would represent a significant hurdle for game companies who've basically been on x86 for enough years to have to rebuild huge chunks of their toolchains to deal with arm arch. That last alone means there would need to be a couple years advanced notice to these game companies so they could be ready in time and that means leaks years in advance which none of the console makers want. It's not impossible, just to late for next gen or we would already have heard about it, and frankly with gamming in a place all to familiar to those of us alive in the early 80's I don't see game companies being to eager to switch, right now their tools work well on both major consoles and pc and they won't want to hire up and spend money to cover a major change like that with things being so iffy.
Did somebody erase my comment?, Gary seriously?!
Well, M series still holds the title in consumption even compared to Qualcomm x elite.
Sadly x86 consumes way more.
So if sony or Microsoft wants to produce a handheld console they might need to use ARM, which is why amd is definitely working on something like that so making ports or sharing apis for emulation of older hardware is possible.
I understand Nintendo doesn't matter in performance but saying AMD has 100% monopoly is wrong. Nvidia provides chip for Nintendo Switch exclusively. That being said, I do agree, Nintendo is not a player in high performance console type games.
It is wrong to say the Switch is a console, it isn't, it is a handheld with a dock.
@@GaryExplains Surely it is a handheld console?! It might be low-powered, but the concept of a electronics console (gaming or otherwise) is a device with a screen and input options specialised for a particular purpose.
@GaryExplains I have to agree with what a few are stating. Nintendo could be considered a category all its own. But I’ve always considered it a console; i.e. an appliance with a focus on gaming entertainment.
Though I think your vid provides a great explanation when focusing on AMD. This is sort of a non-issue in relation to the vid.
Appreciate the work you are doing.
Remember, the first Xbox was supposed to be AMD until Bill fkn Gates happened. As one of the AMD engineers next to the stage put it, He wanted to kill himself at that moment.
I would rephrase: How Intel lost every war in last 20 years.
They did not. They still dominate the desktop and server space. ironically, Itanium won against many old server architectures that subsequently did not get further development. You see they have not lost the war against AMD on the desktop (yet). And they have not lost the war of dektop iGPUs and dGPUs.
@@theevilcottonball "And they have not lost the war of dektop iGPUs and dGPUs" if you are talking about intel you're just wrong.
@@theevilcottonballas of now their CPU's are no better than the 7000 series Zen 4 AMD processors and often inferior performance wise. They used to be Significantly faster but with their E core and P core divided nonsense following arm socs they seem to have lost the edge.
As for the Server market, AMD are rapidly gaining Market share.
I've had Intel and AMD based PCs going right back to the 100mhz AMD and W95 in 1996. I've had various Athlons. I had the first quad core AMD. The AMDs were always a disappointment. My current system is based on the i7 12700. I have no further interest in AMD CPUs. How did the AMD Bulldozer go?
@@nempk1817 I thought laptop not dektop. Its only a three letter typo "dek" -> "lap". Or its my newly invented word: "dektop", a portable computer with a hinge...
Switch uses nvidia, so technically the console market isn't 100% AMD
But still mostly AMD
I don't consider the Switch to be a console. It is a handheld with a screen and a dock accessory.
@@GaryExplains But why then mention Steamdeck? Valve named it a handheld.
@erikouwehand I don't understand, I am not allowed to mention the Steam Deck? I mentioned it because it also has an AMD processor, it is part of the "Hidden AMD Empire", which is the whole point of the video, I thought that would be obvious. But it is clear that most of the video is about the PS and the Xbox, which are consoles.
Switch is a Handheld Console and Nintendo market is not the same as Sony and Xbox, Stean Deck is a consolized handheld PC that also points to the same market as traditional consoles
What a nice comeback story. 👍
A legal vintage gaming stick would be nice, as in simple low power hardware you essentially can stick into an HDMI port, able and allowed to run titles from Steam, GOG and ideally even console titles ( though I don't see that happening with Nintendo or the wild Plethora that was DOS ).
"Won", from what I remembered, it saved AMD from certain bankruptcies.
and well, well, well, The table has turned for Intel and AMD
Yeah Xbox and Sony saved AMD but what had AMD that made Sony and Xbox choose them instead of Intel? That's why AMD won
Also AMD was the inventor of the ( APU ) Adanced Processing Unit and AMD was the first chip manufacture to release a 64-bit CPU.
AMD wasn't the first to release a 64-bit CPU, by a long way, by decades, however it was first with 64-bit x86.
Apple could also build a console with their Mx. Really interesting video. I didn't know what the GPU was in the PS360. It explains a lot about the differences between platforms on this gen.
Maybe more differences between platform (one ARM/Nvidia - eg Switch, one full Intel - eg Microsoft, one full AMD - eg Sony) could be interesting for next gen.
The purchase of ATI is really paying off 😂
AMD won was because Nvidia was a jerk to consol companies.
Nvidia have issues with MS with the original Xbox. But that's it. After that MS still work with nvidia for other MS device such as Zune and Surface RT. in fact in case of Surface RT the partnership with nvidia even make Qualcomm very bitter towards MS since Qualcomm was supposed to be MS exclusive partner for windows mobile device. Sony in general have no issues with nvidia. If anything sony actually very interested some of the tech that nvidia has been doing like AI upscaling. We already heard something like AI upscaling for PS5 pro and that probably because sony is forcing AMD to do it despite AMD heavy push not to use AI in their upscaling tech or frame gen. Nintendo also have no issues with nvidia. Traditionally they have always been using ATI for gpu but only with the Switch they start turning to nvidia. Switch is very successful with third party tittle unlike Nintendo past console thanks to the deal they done with nvidia.
I had (what was then called) an Atari VCS in 1981
The Switch deserved a bigger focus in this video
It's the best selling console of the last 20 years and it uses an NVIDIA ARM SoC
Still doesn't beat AMD by total volume but it's surprisingly close and it's not even a custom chip which means profit margins are probably a bit higher
I just did a quick google search, the top results said that the Switch has sold 132 million units. Now the PlayStation 4 along has sold over 117 million units (again according to my quick google search), so while important it can't beat the combined sales of the PS4, PS5, and the Xbox consoles. Plus I would argue that the Switch isn't a console, but a handheld. I included the Steam Deck because it was just another example, but my focus was the PS and Xbox.
@@GaryExplains Switch is 141M since the last fiscal report.
Is a handheld console and sold as hybrid on the market (console has a "sales ranking" and every dedicated console system is on it).
I get that the video is about amd systems but currently on available platforms in the console market switch is the one that sold the most and had a dominance.
@soragranda I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
@@GaryExplains Fair, but it seems you haven't been in the console sector much lately.
How do you go "in" the console sector? I have no idea what that means. Here in my house we have an Xbox, a Switch, and a Steam Deck. What am I not "in"???
There are rumors that the next Xbox will be ARM-based. I won't be surprised if PlayStation follow suit. As of next year, AMD will get a license for ARM processors.
The best selling console this generation the Nintendo Switch runs on an Nvidia SoC. Basically half of the console market is dominated by Nvidia. Also don’t make the argument that the Switch doesn’t count due to power. We aren’t dummies like those government “watchdogs” who call every console a Nintendo or every Pokemon Pikachu.
I've been using Nvidia GPUs since 2000. Wouldn't touch an AMD graphics card for a PC.
Calling switch a console is equivalent to calling a smart door bell a console because it can run doom
Guessing the next gen consoles would have AMD Zen 5 and RDNA4 in them of some sort. Seems like the natural way to go from the current gen.
Given how well the 7800X3D is doing in gaming maybe the next generation of console APU would feature 3D v-cache.
Depends on how expensive it is. Console maker try to keep cost down and if possible they also did not want to sell their console at cost.
Efficiency?
When running off the main electricity is efficiency a factor? Most PCs have a dedicated graphics cards, doesn't seem to be an issue for desktop PC users.
@@GaryExplains Matter's a lot when everyone is making their own handheld alternative's!
Handheld yes, but the big sales for AMD is the PlayStation and Xbox consoles. Most energy savings come from things like clock speed or core count. Notice how the Steam Deck is a quad core, for example. Having the CPU and GPU on the same chip does offer some savings, so that is a plus for sure.
Empire is an exaggerating, since 1) console royalties are relatively small and 2) Nvidia does extremely well because of Switch
A quarter of AMD's revenue comes from consoles.
Nintendo and Nvidia?
Arm cpu, immortalis GPU?
This is because Dr Lisa Su is one of the best business leaders in the world.
It seems like a golden opportunity, to introduce Microsoft copilot, with the Ryzen 7 9700, after yesterday’s crash, the world’s biggest, they need market share. Google and Apple, are breathing down their necks, what if Sony and Facebook, were to form a relationship, games machines, need AI anyway, how are virtual opponents, going to be realistic, without a lot of tops, of AI. I’m about to load Gemini and Android 15, get a move on MS, I’ll be buying a Ryzen 5 AI, in 11 days.
windows outage video please
Why?
Way off the kind of thing he does. He explains computer tech stuff, not live tech news.
Meanwhile... Riscv gaming etc where lol
Consoles don't make much money for amd
According to PC Gamer, games consoles now deliver fully one quarter of AMD's revenues.
if Nvidia won you will pay 2000$ PS5 or Xbox now
LOL
@@toby9999 yes you will ,They will charge their gpu alot in ps5
You forgot Nintendo Switch, so AMD doesn’t have the whole console market. Switch runs on NVIDIA chip.
LOL, I guess you didn't watch the whole 🤦♂️
@@GaryExplains0:30 , you said 100% market share.
I was going to say that.
Is good thing that the console king is currently an ARM and also Nvidia device.
It is 100% of the market share for consoles. The Switch is a handheld with a cradle.
@@dizx1982probably he talked about console marker instead of handheld.
It is a bit boring that the newer Xbox and PS have the same architecture.
They are not the same. On PS5 there’s a lot of custom co processors that Sony added in conjunction with its base APU.
1)Hardware decompressor (9 Zen2 core performance) offload tons of work from CPU
2) Two I/O co-processor that handle DMA from storage directly to GPU
3) Cache scrubber on GPU. Reduce GPU pipeline stalling which means PS5 GPU will always sit at its max theoretical 10TF performance instead of sitting idle
@@soraaoixxtheblueskyyet it’s still slower than xbsx in many games.
Thanks for stating the obvious since... ?
Thanks for watching a video that you think was stating the obvious.
@@GaryExplains Well we've all known for years....?
All? Like everyone? The entire planet? For years? And yet you still watched it...
@@GaryExplains I didn't know what unknown fact you COULD have added.
I doubt there is anything else I could add. The point is that you seem to think that if YOU know something then EVERYONE knows it. Lots of people enjoyed this video and did think it wasn't all obvious. I didn't make the video for people who already know about the subject. None of my videos (and I guess most videos on RUclips) are aimed at people who already know the subject in hand. That is why I was confused that you bothered to watch a video which you didn't need to watch.
steam deck is not a console. a gaming console isn't just some device made to play games. Consoles have specialized hardware, running specialized firmware, and runs games specialized for this hardware/firmware. The steam deck's hardware is just off the shelf generic PC parts and though it has it's own SteamOS firmware, the games it plays are generic PC games coded for linux. Though they might get a patch, the games are not specially written and optimized for the steam decks firmware and hardware. In fact, not all games on steam will run on the steam deck and others may have shotty performance and crash frequently if it runs at all.
I didn't say the Steam Deck was a console. I included it as an example of AMD's dominance. The focus the video is the PS and Xbox.
Hold on...even if we all agree that "consoles have to have specialized hardware running speculated firmware"...What part of the steam deck chip is "off the shelf"...The chip inside the steam-deck is from AMD's Van Gogh family and is part of the semicustom division. NOTHING about it is standard. This chip pre-dates Phoenix and Hawk Point (which are the real off the shelf parts that Asus/Lenovo/etc. buy) and 100% has special firmware/ customized driver stacks to get it to operate.
In a lot of ways it's so far left field of "off the shelf PC parts" that it hurts valve...Van Gogh is also used for the magic leap 2, and there is A LOT of sillicon allocated to the vision processing needed for that device. It's fused off for the steam deck but, to valve's determit, becuase they needed a chip that literally didn't exist at the time (as PHX wasn't even close to being ready), they had to buy a chip so custom that it carried extra baggage with it. Only in the revision for the steam deck OLED did they actually remove that IP block and make it more economical for Valve.
I would have to disagree, steam deck is a console, it just also gives its users the options to use a desktop environment. Like Xbox allows users to use a browser.
The deck does not use off the self parts, it uses a custom AMD apu, which is not used anywhere else.
And while steamdeck OS is based on Linux, PlayStation OS is based on freeBSD,
Whether you recompile a game to run on a different system, or create a translation layer, in both cases a game that did not run on an ecosystem, now runs.
@@skifree0 some PC's have a custom component here or there to allow for some special feature, but this is not a highly customized system, but even if it was, and you count the steam os as custom firmware, the games it runs are not coded specifically for its hardware and firmware. The fact that you can install windows on it just like you would any PC proves that it is just a PC in a controller skin.
@@thecheaperthebetter4477 on PC's, despite differences in hardware, they all run the exact same code for any given app or game, with varying degrees of performance/success. This generic do everything nature of PC's is why you need much more powerful hardware on a PC to achieve similar performance to a console. Consoles, being specialized to a particular thing, gaming in this case, are much more efficient and much less prone to errors.
Nvidia won the console wars, if anything, because the Switch sold more units than PS4 and Xbone and it came out later.
No, not really. a) The Switch isn't a console, it is a handheld with a dock. b) The Switch may have sold more than one of the console models, but it did not outsell all of them combined. AMD sold way more chips than NVIDIA via the PS4, PS5, and the Xboxes. Simple maths.
@@GaryExplains You plug it into your TV and it plays games. Its primary use is playing games. It is a console.
Your other point is valid, though. I didn't realize how well PS4 did.
because the silicon is cheap and garbage
Whats crazy AmD desktops, laptops are trash and don't last long from my experience and intel destroies AMD in that department, but wirh handledas,consoless amd destroies intel.
Are you saying that AMD powered devices "don't last long" due to a failure of the processor? But Intel processors last longer? That is quite a statement.
What are you even talking about?
How do you know that AMD part don't last as long compared to intel?
You're actually arguing that AMD devices don't last long at a time when the biggest hardware scandal in the entire industry revolves around Intel processors self-destructing?
Clearly you've been living under a rock for such fallacious claims.
😂
Troll Much?