Note on my comment about not being able to switch to the gunfighter base; you can with an adaptor. However, for some reason i couldn't navigate to it at all via VKB's site, rather, i had to go via a google link? But here it is: flightsimcontrols.com/product/scg-grip-conversion-kit (EU) vkbcontrollers.com/?product=scg-conversion-kit-gnx-scg-gunfighter-scg (NA)
Thank you so much for finding this! :D what a Godsend. I always wanted to upgrade but could stomach having to buy the expensive gunfighter grip just to get the base. Especially when you can see they have a gunfighter base that comes with a Gladiator grip using the adapter. I searched their site for ages!
Mine is 18 or so months old now. Still as pin point accurate as the day it was delivered. Bad weather close formation flying into occupied France at 50 foot never felt so great. Absolutely love VKB.
Good to know, cause my T-16000m, which is also around, 1,5 year old, developed a weird issue with X-axis. The axis just restarts after like 5% to the left or so. So I move it to the left, the axis starts, then it goes back to 0 and continues normally. It's small, but noticeable, especially when trying to do small adjustments to the left.
The Kosmosima grip has a dual action trigger, when you pull it you feel the first click, if you pull harder there is the second click. It doesn't hit a stop after the first click like the T16000 that is why it gives the feel of squishiness, but you get used to it.
OTA is the angled one right? I considered it, but wasn't sure the merits so skipped getting the adaptor for now. Love to hear your opinion of it vs an upright stick!
@@RobotSpartan Yeah, the OTA is the 45 degree angled stick. Myself I was questioning it but decided to go for it. The comfort has been a very nice surprise.
@@RobotSpartan When it is was first purchased it was not a primary concern. But with the use of it I like it. You also have the ability to lock the twist out of the grip and the left / right movement pitch of the stick. So by doing that you make it a normal throttle.
Been a longtime user of these exact sticks. Twist axis is still great despite heavy use on both left and right. I found that I did not like how slow they were to return to center. The fix for that is straightforward but extremely time intensive. Take the gimbal and stick apart and apply your grease of choice. All I had on hand was some rather slick stuff so mine now SNAPS back to center as soon I let go. Which IMO simulates my arrow pretty well.
Glad to hear the twist remains solid, as that was a big concern of mine with how quickly they failed on the T16k. Although i believe VKB are using a hall effect sensor stock, which is the fix for the T16k? I have noticed the twist is slow to return, so thats useful advice. Got some moly grease in the cupboard (VERY slippery) so i'll look to get that added :)
My Dude the Omni mount is amazing, putting the left stick at a 45° angle for the rotation for strafe up and down. One thing that is cool also, you can lock the x axis and turn one stick into a dedicated throttle(works well with the Omni adapter)
The old green plastic version of the T16000m never broke as much as the newer versions. Something about the new sticks manufacturing is flawed since the Z-axis sensor shouldn't be having the sheer volume of issues that are showing up. VKB definitely feel better to me, just take getting used to.
I went from a HOTAS X52 to the premium version of these, the left is setup as the omni throttle. I had no idea how much better these were going to be. It is so much more intuitive. Flying feels so much better. And these really are quality products. I use these in Star Citizen and was able to use Subliminals HOSAS config and jump right in. So many buttons! You dont need to touch your keep hardly at all. If you were on the fence about this, make the move and you will not regret it.
Completely agree. I still have my T16k, which i gave to my kid to use. Honestly, i feel guilty for giving what now feels like bad peripherals to them 😂
By far the worst issue with the T.16000m is the horrendous z-axis sensor crapping out after barely any time playing. It makes them almost worthless when you consider it's basically a 6 month purchase when you could have put that toward something that wouldn't break for years.
I've been flying with a T1600M hotas for years. I've heard their quality has dropped a little recently but the throttle is still a good buy. Planing on buying a gladiator Evo space premium edition when it decides to give out. I'll upgrade the throttle when vkb drops that this year as well.
Never used the throttle, though I do have the pedals (got them when one of the twist axis went bad). They're not bad, and have held up longer than either stick, but they're far from smooth sadly Very tempted to add the throttle to my VKB though
Just want to say I have the vkb omni's, and between removing springs, dampening, and the lock plate.... It makes a phenomenally comfortable throttle. Personally I still plan to pick up a throttle long term for non-space flight, but for now I have my left Omni set up without the lock-plate and with just enough dampening that to swap between space sim and DCS just requires removing or adding the Y axis spring, respectively. Also to video poster, I assume you've realized that the "out of the box dampening" does settle into a smoother feel over time. When I upgraded from the t16, I felt exactly the same as when you compared them directly. That resistance is amazing because the sensor is so much more accurate. But that said, you said the twist axis is about the same.... 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Other than that, this mirrors so much my experience of upgrading.
Bonjour J'ai commandé mon Gladiator le 6 décembre et ils m'annoncent la livraison pour le 20 ... Il faudra qu'ils fassent un effort car deux semaines pour livrer ça en France, c'est exagéré. Ce gladiator vient en remplacement justement du T16000 qui m'a laché sans possibilité de réparer sur l'axe de torsion ... J'espère que le Gladiator sera plus fiable. Je ne possède qu'un jeu très chronophage, Elite Dangerous et c'est largement suffisant car il y a une vie à coté, même si je suis retraité.
I too REALLY wish they had an upgrade path for this product. Would be awesome if they had a gunfighter base adapter. That way you could use an extended stick for more accuracy. Aim is almost everything in SC
They are with an adapter, but for some reason at time of recording, they weren't findable on the EU store, only the US one, hence the erroneous statement
There is a promo code that you can get 5% off anything in the bin store. The promo code is called Subliminal , also check out his channel as he does reviews on them also. The shipping was not too bad for me as they shipped from Austria , we live in New Zealand and that. I went all in expensive as I want to melt them on my desk as I don't have much desk space, and I got the Gunfighter Mk3, I haven't tried them in star citizen yet.
Saltemike also has a promo code it seems now i go back and check. I just use honey add on and it seems it randomly added that. And aye, i watched subliminals vid before jumping the gun just to be sure Also, shipping for me was purely stock. Once they were in stock i had them the next day, which is pretty impressive considering the rather large sea between the UK and Netherlands!
The only difference between the premium and the standard is the extra button modules. I just did some (extensive) digging. After a while i found that there is in fact an adapter that replaces the twist module and allows you to switch bases. But theres no way of navigating to it through the (EU) website; i had to find it via a google link. Thats why i (and several others) thought it was not possible
Aye, it's in the pinned comment. For some reason on the European store (at least at time of recording) you could only get to the page by knowing the URL, so when I went looking i was lead me to the wrong conclusion
it changes constantly, so i dont have a fixed set up im afraid! once i have time to start playing again, i'll get something set in stone and be glad to share it :)
I don't think of these T16000 as the entry level anymore, they are actually awful. The VKBs are the only entry level things I'd recommened these days. The build quality on T16ks and the even cheaper Thrustmasters is inexcusable.
i'd argue that for someone who plays once a month they're not TERRIBLE. I gave mine to my kid (who plays once a month) and they serve their purpose well enough. But for someone actively playing? Yeah i would suggest trying with a friends HOSAS (not everyone will get on with it!) and then go straight to these if you like HOSAS
@@RobotSpartan oh cool didnt know they were modular. apparently the NXT Evo is the space combat so nvm these are the space combats, has a different grip w more buttons than other models
The default listing when you select the "space combats" (which are just the NXT Evo, no idea why they added space combat to the name 🤣) are the premium stick, so that may be why it looks like a different grip. In reality, they are the exact same grip whether you get the basic or premium, and you can add the extra buttons/hats after the fact I personally didn't need them, hence getting the base over the premium
Space combat is the name of the grip, you can get gladiators with the kg12 and f14 grips as well. Though it's a bit redundant for the omnithrottle as they only sell that with the premium space grips as a completed unit.
$130 each having just checked, which is still the price of two T16k Don't get me wrong, I agree it's better to save and get the gladiators, but that's still double the price nontheless
@@RobotSpartan Plus shipping (and duty fees) for VKB. In Canada, I was lucky and jumped on a great deal of the T16000 hotas recently for 150 $cdn (normal 240 $cdn). VKB gladiator would cost ~240 $cdn wth basic grip (joystick+shipping but duty fees not included)...
Note on my comment about not being able to switch to the gunfighter base; you can with an adaptor. However, for some reason i couldn't navigate to it at all via VKB's site, rather, i had to go via a google link?
But here it is: flightsimcontrols.com/product/scg-grip-conversion-kit (EU)
vkbcontrollers.com/?product=scg-conversion-kit-gnx-scg-gunfighter-scg (NA)
Thank you so much for finding this! :D what a Godsend. I always wanted to upgrade but could stomach having to buy the expensive gunfighter grip just to get the base. Especially when you can see they have a gunfighter base that comes with a Gladiator grip using the adapter. I searched their site for ages!
@@pythonBlender7 Thank FuckPutin in the comments for sending me on the right track with this!
Mine is 18 or so months old now. Still as pin point accurate as the day it was delivered. Bad weather close formation flying into occupied France at 50 foot never felt so great. Absolutely love VKB.
Nice to hear good things from a long term owner!
Good to know, cause my T-16000m, which is also around, 1,5 year old, developed a weird issue with X-axis. The axis just restarts after like 5% to the left or so. So I move it to the left, the axis starts, then it goes back to 0 and continues normally. It's small, but noticeable, especially when trying to do small adjustments to the left.
If you strip it, clean the grease away with contact cleaner and regrease that may solve that
@@RobotSpartan Thanks, I'll try it. One day.
The Kosmosima grip has a dual action trigger, when you pull it you feel the first click, if you pull harder there is the second click. It doesn't hit a stop after the first click like the T16000 that is why it gives the feel of squishiness, but you get used to it.
aaaaah that explains it! Didn't realise it was dual trigger. Might have to play with that....
Have fun. I have had my Right Premium and Left SCG OTA since April and they were an excellent upgrade over the thustmaster.
OTA is the angled one right?
I considered it, but wasn't sure the merits so skipped getting the adaptor for now. Love to hear your opinion of it vs an upright stick!
@@RobotSpartan Yeah, the OTA is the 45 degree angled stick. Myself I was questioning it but decided to go for it. The comfort has been a very nice surprise.
@@brianwaffle ah so its more a comfort thing? Good to know, thanks!
@@RobotSpartan When it is was first purchased it was not a primary concern. But with the use of it I like it. You also have the ability to lock the twist out of the grip and the left / right movement pitch of the stick. So by doing that you make it a normal throttle.
@@MrBrianWaffle interesting to note. Appreciate the insight :)
Been a longtime user of these exact sticks. Twist axis is still great despite heavy use on both left and right. I found that I did not like how slow they were to return to center. The fix for that is straightforward but extremely time intensive. Take the gimbal and stick apart and apply your grease of choice. All I had on hand was some rather slick stuff so mine now SNAPS back to center as soon I let go. Which IMO simulates my arrow pretty well.
Glad to hear the twist remains solid, as that was a big concern of mine with how quickly they failed on the T16k. Although i believe VKB are using a hall effect sensor stock, which is the fix for the T16k?
I have noticed the twist is slow to return, so thats useful advice. Got some moly grease in the cupboard (VERY slippery) so i'll look to get that added :)
My Dude the Omni mount is amazing, putting the left stick at a 45° angle for the rotation for strafe up and down. One thing that is cool also, you can lock the x axis and turn one stick into a dedicated throttle(works well with the Omni adapter)
Aye it's on my shopping list, after life gets back on track 🙂
The old green plastic version of the T16000m never broke as much as the newer versions. Something about the new sticks manufacturing is flawed since the Z-axis sensor shouldn't be having the sheer volume of issues that are showing up. VKB definitely feel better to me, just take getting used to.
I went from a HOTAS X52 to the premium version of these, the left is setup as the omni throttle. I had no idea how much better these were going to be. It is so much more intuitive. Flying feels so much better. And these really are quality products. I use these in Star Citizen and was able to use Subliminals HOSAS config and jump right in. So many buttons! You dont need to touch your keep hardly at all. If you were on the fence about this, make the move and you will not regret it.
Completely agree. I still have my T16k, which i gave to my kid to use. Honestly, i feel guilty for giving what now feels like bad peripherals to them 😂
@@RobotSpartan them's the breaks for a flight sim junkie's kid. what are you gonna do, give him the _good_ stick?!? puh-lease.
@@oldfrend When she can beat me in a dogfight, i'll think about upgrading hers :P
Can't thank you enough mate, video is extremely helpful.
Always happy to be of service :)
By far the worst issue with the T.16000m is the horrendous z-axis sensor crapping out after barely any time playing. It makes them almost worthless when you consider it's basically a 6 month purchase when you could have put that toward something that wouldn't break for years.
The Red rings on the bottom are for screws that fall out easily to stop them from falling out ;) there other screws don't have this issue
yeah i thought it might be. still odd they're only on one of them though!
I've been flying with a T1600M hotas for years. I've heard their quality has dropped a little recently but the throttle is still a good buy. Planing on buying a gladiator Evo space premium edition when it decides to give out. I'll upgrade the throttle when vkb drops that this year as well.
Never used the throttle, though I do have the pedals (got them when one of the twist axis went bad). They're not bad, and have held up longer than either stick, but they're far from smooth sadly
Very tempted to add the throttle to my VKB though
Just want to say I have the vkb omni's, and between removing springs, dampening, and the lock plate.... It makes a phenomenally comfortable throttle.
Personally I still plan to pick up a throttle long term for non-space flight, but for now I have my left Omni set up without the lock-plate and with just enough dampening that to swap between space sim and DCS just requires removing or adding the Y axis spring, respectively.
Also to video poster, I assume you've realized that the "out of the box dampening" does settle into a smoother feel over time. When I upgraded from the t16, I felt exactly the same as when you compared them directly. That resistance is amazing because the sensor is so much more accurate.
But that said, you said the twist axis is about the same....
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Other than that, this mirrors so much my experience of upgrading.
Heads up. Warbird is from Virpil not VKB. I believe VKBs premium base is called the gunfighter base
ah yes you're right. i did say "i think" :P
The gunfighter Mk. 3
Bonjour
J'ai commandé mon Gladiator le 6 décembre et ils m'annoncent la livraison pour le 20 ... Il faudra qu'ils fassent un effort car deux semaines pour livrer ça en France, c'est exagéré. Ce gladiator vient en remplacement justement du T16000 qui m'a laché sans possibilité de réparer sur l'axe de torsion ... J'espère que le Gladiator sera plus fiable. Je ne possède qu'un jeu très chronophage, Elite Dangerous et c'est largement suffisant car il y a une vie à coté, même si je suis retraité.
I too REALLY wish they had an upgrade path for this product. Would be awesome if they had a gunfighter base adapter. That way you could use an extended stick for more accuracy. Aim is almost everything in SC
IKR! I would be more than happy to pay an extra £5 per stick to cover the extra cost to VKB for that
Are you talking about the VKB Gladiator sticks? I'm pretty sure they're combatable with the Gunfighter base
They are with an adapter, but for some reason at time of recording, they weren't findable on the EU store, only the US one, hence the erroneous statement
There is a promo code that you can get 5% off anything in the bin store. The promo code is called Subliminal , also check out his channel as he does reviews on them also. The shipping was not too bad for me as they shipped from Austria , we live in New Zealand and that. I went all in expensive as I want to melt them on my desk as I don't have much desk space, and I got the Gunfighter Mk3, I haven't tried them in star citizen yet.
Saltemike also has a promo code it seems now i go back and check. I just use honey add on and it seems it randomly added that. And aye, i watched subliminals vid before jumping the gun just to be sure
Also, shipping for me was purely stock. Once they were in stock i had them the next day, which is pretty impressive considering the rather large sea between the UK and Netherlands!
I've had both. There is no contest. VKB is hands down better
oh no question of it!
VKB say the Gladiator premiums sticks can be upgraded to the Gunfighters.
The only difference between the premium and the standard is the extra button modules.
I just did some (extensive) digging. After a while i found that there is in fact an adapter that replaces the twist module and allows you to switch bases. But theres no way of navigating to it through the (EU) website; i had to find it via a google link. Thats why i (and several others) thought it was not possible
Not sure if it's been said, but there is an adapter out now to change between either base/grip combos.
Aye, it's in the pinned comment. For some reason on the European store (at least at time of recording) you could only get to the page by knowing the URL, so when I went looking i was lead me to the wrong conclusion
@@RobotSpartan Ah, I missed it. I don't think it's pinned any more.
@@TheLukemcdaniel god damn it RUclips! I repinned it 😅
Only VPC Constellation ALPHA Prime.
Any chance you would share your setup for Star Citizen for the dual VKB????
it changes constantly, so i dont have a fixed set up im afraid! once i have time to start playing again, i'll get something set in stone and be glad to share it :)
I don't think of these T16000 as the entry level anymore, they are actually awful.
The VKBs are the only entry level things I'd recommened these days. The build quality on T16ks and the even cheaper Thrustmasters is inexcusable.
i'd argue that for someone who plays once a month they're not TERRIBLE. I gave mine to my kid (who plays once a month) and they serve their purpose well enough.
But for someone actively playing? Yeah i would suggest trying with a friends HOSAS (not everyone will get on with it!) and then go straight to these if you like HOSAS
That damned brexit :D
Brexit excellent ! Je suis en tant que Français pour un FREXIT ! Depuis l'UE, nous avons terriblement perdu sur TOUS les points !!!!
U if I am not wrong warbird is by Virpil but if you meant cross company set up(which is possible) I get what you mean
i just got my nomenclature mixed up is all, i meant gunfighter :)
why didnt u get the omni space combats?
They are the "space combats"? I didn't know if I would like the angled extension, and it can be added after the fact, so i skipped it
@@RobotSpartan oh cool didnt know they were modular. apparently the NXT Evo is the space combat so nvm these are the space combats, has a different grip w more buttons than other models
The default listing when you select the "space combats" (which are just the NXT Evo, no idea why they added space combat to the name 🤣) are the premium stick, so that may be why it looks like a different grip. In reality, they are the exact same grip whether you get the basic or premium, and you can add the extra buttons/hats after the fact
I personally didn't need them, hence getting the base over the premium
Space combat is the name of the grip, you can get gladiators with the kg12 and f14 grips as well. Though it's a bit redundant for the omnithrottle as they only sell that with the premium space grips as a completed unit.
For little over $100 you can get gladiators so I don't think the T16000s are worth it anymore.
$130 each having just checked, which is still the price of two T16k
Don't get me wrong, I agree it's better to save and get the gladiators, but that's still double the price nontheless
@@RobotSpartan Plus shipping (and duty fees) for VKB. In Canada, I was lucky and jumped on a great deal of the T16000 hotas recently for 150 $cdn (normal 240 $cdn). VKB gladiator would cost ~240 $cdn wth basic grip (joystick+shipping but duty fees not included)...
Great video. Could not finish it. Obnoxious music.