If anyone is confused about dupli-Kate being alive here rob forgot to mention that she had a fail safe where she kept one clone hidden away from the world in case all the rest were destroyed.
So that's not the original. Rip original. I was confused as to why she was there. And also confused about that fact that she banged The Immortal Man when she's near Mark's age (I think) because she was on Teen Team.
@@AnimeGeek139 it is and it isn't, dupli-kate isn't like the mauler twins cloning, her clones are more like a hivemind rather than a separate entity with the same memories, so as long as one body survives it's still the same Kate
One parallel that rob didn’t mention is that during a previous attack on the government, Cecil who was just an agent at the time found out that the two villains who burned his face were being hired by the director as bodyguards. Cecil shot them on the spot and was sent to prison
I think this will be explained later. I don't think Cecil's story was in the same issue, but yes Cecil's story plays a lot into his decision making later.
The funny thing about Oliver's statement is that it shows his immaturity as well. Oliver doesn't value life like Mark because he hasn't lived long enough to actually cherish life. Hasn't been conditioned to understand the loss and preservation of life, hell maybe not even Debbie's. He says "If humans don't think their lives are important, then why should I?" I say if you don't find their lives important then what place do you have in protecting it? A dangerous comment, yes, but my point is that even Nolan learned to treasure life eventually being on earth during his time. Oliver's existence is proof of this, otherwise he would have been executed immediately by viltrimite way of life. Now the other side of the coin isn't an more pleasant as Marks lack of logic in his actions is his biggest drawback. The notion of morality vs logic is pushed heavily in future comics but his constant acting on pure emotions without thinking about the consequences could end up making him another darkwing, maybe not psychotic but something close. In the end emotions and logic don't stick well because emotions make people do illogical things and logic can come of illogical to emotional people. Invincible works this angle the best because they don't really blur or mince words with this stuff.
I find it funny, lessons from jaoanese animation usually are sophisticated but don't tackle this balance of emotions vs. Logic. It usually rewards the hero for their emotional bravery or casts it down by overwhelming power. There no discovery or dance to solving that mystery of the value of life. At least, the anime I'd seen imo.
It isn't even necessarily conditioning. It's genetic. In fact culture has long held the greater effect in human evolution than gene mutations. Society allowed us to lessen needs for survival,.and thus genetics doesn't have to change to adapt as drastically
Oliver fails to realise he's not protecting a humans self-evaluated opinion of their life's worth. He's protecting the opportunity and possibility laying in every person to make their life important, to give it meaning in their own eyes. He's there to protect their freedom to choose to do that. That's the sacred value of human life - that which makes it beautiful - that Oliver is too young and inexperienced to know.
I've known this channel for about 5-10 years and i have to say you've made my life 5x better. Coming from a relatively poor family and never buying a comic book, I've been able to see complete stories that are absolutely badass Thank you for the experience and i hope you enjoy this year to the fullest
Just... wow! SO MANY moral queries and questions that took decades to bring to comics. Exp: OmniKid and Damien Wayne. "Why let the villains live when YOU KNOW they're gonna kill again" I love this comic
Regarding the new audio space, it's seamless when compared to a video from last week but both sound so quality that it's positive that the new space is still quality par.
Man all this philosophical morality of being a vigilante and apprehending villains instead of killing, but like, we have the death penalty for criminals. That never get used in comics. And if it does, it just becomes a plot device the story.
Well when they break out of prison on a near daily basis I don't even know how often they make it to a trial let alone exhaust all of their appeals for every crime they could be charged with. The average time on death row in the US is 264 months so the only way to realistically get them to execution would be almost certainly illegal as far as due process is concerned.
100%. No seriously 💯Definitely becomes a plot device that’s why you don’t use that & time travel & op snipers that can just shoot you in the noggin from far af away...but comics deviate sometime. In this case it’s pushing the story foward but def still a plot device for sure.
Because it’s pointless to argue, there are no superheroes so it doesn’t apply in the real world. The only reason that discussion takes place in comics is because the writers write ways for the villains to constantly get out of prison. The whole batman not killing the joker is entirely based on the joker being put in the worst prisons with dumb as rocks jailers that keep letting him out.
The death penalty is inherently immoral though. It’s easy enough to read a comic where the “bad guys” are SHOWN committing crimes repeatedly, but that isn’t real life. The death penalty is a relic of an era that most of the first world has left behind because it is morally indefensible. If a man kills another person, do they deserve the death penalty? Some may say yes, some may say no. What if the man he killed had killed another person themselves? More people will often jump from yes to no at that point, while some will say “an eye for an eye” and say he still deserves the death penalty… so WHO is the moral judge? Who deserves the responsibility over other human life? … The only moral answer is no one.
This comic is amazing. After finishing it, I gotta say that its one of my favorites. There’s a weird point where the art style changes for a little bit near the end, but it changes back to the original art style just in time for the EPIC conclusion which just makes it all the better. They then switch back to the new art style for the epilogue, which I think was a good choice there because you’d expect the characters to look different after many years. Overall, I’d give it a 9/10. Truly Amazing and a must read.
That’s exactly what it is. The guy above me got it right. Batman always just hits Jason harder whenever he mentions the REAL reason why Batman won’t kill his villains, or at least the Joker. He’d feel like he has no purpose if not to catch the villains.
The problem doesn't consist of Batman not killing the Joker, it consists of Batman never fixing the systemic issues in Gotham-as well as the US, & the world at large-which stand in the way of making killing the Joker seem like a bad idea to the average person. Refusing to kill the villain(s) represents the right move(s)-and failure(s) to prevent future villainry from them represents the real problem(s). Note that [a] villain(s) needn't have redeemability for refusal(s) to kill to represent the right move(s). I guess it basically comes down to whether one rejects utilitarianism over infinitely many generations, however personally, I suspect one may suppose the reasonability of decisions over a timescale of infinite generations becomes conceivable of only after reflecting on whether one should considering doing so, which perhaps may seem like '[some ]cosmic background perspective'.
@@rezr5448 Batman gets all the hate because he's fighting normal people while the other justice members are fighting aliens and monsters. After 20 years, Gotham is still a crappy city.
Something else Mark forgets at this point of the comic. Oliver is NOT human. Not even a little bit. It's something Mark comes to truly accept and understand as time goes on. But at this point right here, it's simple fact that went entirely over Mark's head until it was shoved into his face.
I think the thing is (for me), when heroes kill Villains, they (probably) indirectly safe lives but making the villains change their ways and turn them into helpful assets or some kind of heroes, would really benefit the world way more over all (in the long run), IMO. Like we see with certain villains at the end of the Invincible comics. I think I would rather have a helpful "Villain" that a dead one, also, even though it might not seem that way, villains can change even when it seems hopeless and takes some time, again referencing said villains at the end of the comics. But, I also get the other point of view. This point of view is just my preference.
In my mind, whenever we or someone else says something like “if humanity wanted to fix itself, they would’ve done so already,” that isn’t a good argument to make. You can see that are people and organizations that work for their entire lives to better the world. So when some says that “humanity would’ve fixed itself already,” it’s like they’re so removed from it all. That might be why you have the evil Superman characters saying that kind of stuff. In comparison to us humans, they ARE gods. They can do things that we naturally can’t do ourselves. It’s easy for them to say that when they can do virtually almost anything. It’s easy for them when they’re the ones looking down from high up above.
Recently read the invincible comics myself and felt the interaction between mark and adameve on dating finally was a little relatable but only in how irrational we are. Mark sees a future version of eve who says tell me something, mark and amber break up and eve is like "what's up? " when mark tells her this how is this "pity". Obviously he cares about her more than just that if he doesn't want her to become that version of herself. But then agains its the uncertainty that mark showed when asked. Idk.
The superheroes in these stories aren't the problem. It's the society they're living in that's the problem. Using Batman as an example, when he catches someone and locks them up, it's the job of the prison system to keep them there to serve their sentence. If they escape, that's not Batman's fault. Not killing the supervillains isn't the problem, it's that nobody seems capable of building a prison that can hold them, and nobody seems to be able to rehabilitate them.
I feel that stems from (comic book )writers feeling scared of writing Utopias-in-the-making because they think one can't tell stories there (which of course makes no actual sense)
Well that is more the fault of writers and the audience. The prison can only hold a villain until it is necessary for them to break out and regardless of how impossible the situation the villain will be able to procure the tools necessary to break out. If every villain was killed, rehabilitated or held indefinitely there would be no stories. This is also one of my complaints with this kind of "meta" philosophy in stories since it feels more like an indictment of the audience than anything else. Like the writer is pointing out how illogically they have to design their world in order to cater to the demands of their readers.
17:40 this is a point I wish more people would truly understand. Sometimes, often times, you can't do good without doing any harm at all. Without sacrifice. The trouble with it on the flip side, is if you choose to kill someone or cause great harm to achieve some sort of outcome, it becomes easier to justify doing cruel and terrible things to get what you want. Sometimes killing is necessary, but its also a slippery slope into becoming a kind of villain, even with good intentions. But alas, stopping someone truly dangerous means you have to kill them. Some people are too powerful, too willful to be controlled and will always only wish to serve themselves. What do you do with someone like that? Even keeping someone alive in confinement is a cruelty. If someone can't be redeemed, its better to end their life than to prolong it in suffering, its wasteful and serves no purpose. In real life we can't have the death penalty for people like this however, because its an easy path for corruption to route out its enemies. Its too powerful a tool, so it makes the death penalty a real grey area even when someone objectively deserves it.
17:41 The fact Heroes don't kill isn't about "morality" is the same logic as cop killing criminals, but with super-powered people, the thought changes into "If he kills that supervillain, what stops him in turn against the common folk?"
Pretty much. But even with Batman. If they kill, when does it stop? There’s lot of hero’s that turned into villains because when they begin to kill no one’s philosophy is full proof.
10:18 "Cecil knew that darkwing was a psychopath, and he used that information to get darkwing to work for him" Kinda like how it works in real life, a lot like real life actually. Minus the super powers and weird costumes.
Human life being considered precious to someone is the exact opposite of “I and my morality are more important than innocent lives”. It is, however, narcissistic to believe yourself the arbiter of some kind of absolute justice/authority to dole out death as you see fit and to believe that by not murdering someone in cold blood you are somehow responsible for sacrificing lives to that person should they end other lives. What you describe as logical is simply an emotional reactionary response to death and your framing proves as much. The fact that the characters you believe are being logical are a child that just killed two people with zero remorse (one of whom had surrendered) and a murderous tyrant from an empire of genocidal murderous tyrants proves as much.
exactly, if imprisoning villains means they’ll just break out and kill then the issue is prisons not properly rehabilitating not the heroes refusal to kill
Rob proves that people like him could never be effective heroes. A hero that kills every villain is feared by regular people more then a villain. Because a hero has the law on his side meaning “you can’t win” even if you are innocent. It can always be covered up and disappear meaning it was pointless.
I wonder if the show’s going to even make mark have a falling out with him, he knows about the reanimate cyborgs, but maybe the next surprise he have for Mark in the future will be when they have a falling out.
Heroes inspire Hope. Some Heroes exist to be Icons of what is possible, what humanity can be. Some Hero exist to protect that potential, so it's allowed to grow. People say Batman should kill the Joker in order to prevent more deaths, but I ask why doesn't the legal system kill Joker? It's because they are afraid of taking action that heroes do. Normal people just want to safe dealing only with ordinary problems and want there Heroes to protect them from extraordinary dangers. Heroes that are willing to kill walk a line between becoming the Hope for Change and the Fear of Change. Hoping for a world where there lives aren't at risk because of a endless cycle. Fearing a world where Heroes become the very thing the normal people are afraid of. Invincible is a Great Story of Hero and the Changes he makes. Keep up the Great Videos.
@@garuna5688 I know the IRL Reason. If a Hero slaughters villains, eventually the writers are going to run out of material., This actually happened in the old comic like Dick Tracey. This only works with short series and "Beware the Superman" mini-stories. Personally, I don't think killing would suit the current incarnation of Batman. I would love an Elseworld story, where Gotham super criminals are executed by the government instead of locked up in a revolving door looney bin. Batman commentary on that "Justice".
True but that outlines the problem with heroes as well. They’ll just go in a cycle of letting villains go and the villains killing more people. Their is no progress in that at all. If anything because of that, that holds society back
Batman doesn't have to kill Joker. He could give him a lobotomy or paralyze him. The fact that he doesn't even entertain those options proves the he's negligent.
@@gregmatic2861 Batman is scared of becoming that which he hates. He scared one day he kills a criminal and years later some boy or girl is going to say he killed there parent. In his nightmares, Batman sees the Batman Who Laughs.
Feel like we're waxing a little extremist with the idea that killing to stop killing is somehow logical. And who are we to tell someone who puts their life on the line to stop someone's rampage that they have to put aside their own morality to satisfy you or anyone else. It's a slippery slope here and I know Rob thinks he's infallible with the slippery slope deal being a rather dumb argument but it's there for those who haven't slipped into extremism to see.
It’s like saying killing is easy, that’s so far outside every day life how could an average person possibly know what it’s like? Some people seem to think your motives will make it easier to end a human life.
I would say that while it may or may not be extreme or logical to kill to keep others from dying, it is definitely isn't out of the ordinary. Think of the American Revolutionary War. Or the 24 killed during the nuremberg trials. That said, I think sometimes, (very rarely) somebody's got to die. It may or may not be wrong, it is just a by product of life.
@@spasegeek9214 obviously, ya brick. I meant that this is a bit he does so frequently that you can see it coming a mile away. It's as synonymous with his content as his "lemme tell you" bit
not trying to correct you at all bro love the channel an have for years, at around 18:00 min you say his son, i cant help but feel like you thought about Jupiters legacy in that moment lmao
The conversation mark and his brother had kinda reminded me of the conflicted relationship between the ideals of the Redhood & Batman when they meet after what joker does.
Omni kids outlook comes from his Traxian Dna (his mothers side). They focus on the entire race rather then the individual because of their short lifespan. Allso oliver remembers everything from childhood to now and has an exalarated learning ability (allso from his mothers side).
Truth be told, with the mess we are in, many of us are going to need to learn to demonstrate true bravery and honor in sacrificing our morality for the sake of getting business taken care of. You might not agree, but I am glad you see it.
I can hear a bit of a difference but it’s not bad. It might even be a bit clearer than usual, but I like your normal setup, it’s perfect for your voice and enthusiasm
Heroes don't kill because it's wrong. Simple as that. And for those that would have Batman kill the Joker, why hasn't anyone on the Justice League gone and done it then? Why is this always on Batman? The Flash could make it look literally like a heart attack. Martian Manhunter could probably even psychically lock the Joker's brain from killing, circumventing the need to kill him, but ooooh noooo, Batman is the bad guy here. It's okay for Zatanna to wipe people minds but not cast a spell on the Joker, the worst of the worst? Okay...(I'm being sarcastic btw, I know it's comic book logic lol)
Yeah it’s comic book logic, it doesn’t have to be Batman. Don’t forget we did have a moment where Superman killed joker, Batman actually has killed joker, my stance mannnn they would’ve saved so many lives if they just killed joker 😂😂.
@@username.exenotfound2943 effectively the problem here. people blame the vigilante for not playing god and circumventing due process yet no one ever seems to turn it back on the government for not doing anything else.
Cecil is doing what Nick Fury or Amanda Waller would do. They work with the worst criminals, to try to save the planet. Happens a lot during the war. Enemy of my enemy is my friend, and all that jazz.
I think one thing that gets missed is the fact that Nolan's argument of "If humans wanted to correct themselves they would've done it by now" is hypocritical. The Viltrumites have lived longer than humanity and still had all out wars with each other, but were able to come to a point where they were more in unison. Based on Nolan's logic, some other race should have showed up on Viltrum before they stopped killing each other and forced them into compliance. Had that have happened, the Viltrumites wouldn't have grown to be as powerful as they are, because they wouldn't have had the room for growth and development. That's what Nolan doesn't understand. Peace is a long process. You can't force peace. Just look at any dictatorship.
It also doesn’t make sense he doesn’t understand that. He isn’t an idiot, he knows his people’s history and is very capable. He should know how stupid that statement is.
Your logic is ideal, yet unrealistic. Look at Saddam Hussain. Was he a tyrant? Indeed. However, when American government killed him for his crimes, it opened a power vacuum in which ISIS was formed. Their damage seems to be of a greater impact than that of Saddam. Sometimes the lesser of two evils isn't the best option ever, but it's the best option we have at the moment.
PLEASE COVER THE INVINCIBLE SIDE COMICS (mainly Guarding the Globe vol 1 and vol 2, and Invincible Universe) AFTER THEIR CHRONOLOGICAL ISSUES IN THE MAIN SERIES
Whenever they do this talking point, I'd like it if they actually show the people like they did in that animated Superman's Death movie. The people were okay with the clone until he killed Toyman and saw his aggressive nature to upholding the law, everyone was fearful. What if they accidentally dropped trash, jaywalked, just very minor things that would tick this guy off enough to end them? We don't get to see those affects with Darkwing(albeit in his case its where he murders people cause he can get away with it as an excuse for justice) and we always see the terrible extreme jump to Dictator rule. There's never a progression of how going down this path supposedly leads to a dark road. I do think that it is a pretty slippery slope though because you have to switch something in your brain because there's too much thought put into the amount of details for one person's life, their reasoning, their family, their side of the argument. Its a real thing military people had to train to do and there's a lot of discussion of how you switch it back on. Honestly the perfect Superhero comic will be a thing when they can tip toe this line as its main story theme rather than tossing it in there for cliche discussion.
I think Eve overreacted, instead of talking about it, like Mark always do whenever she messes up, or just forgive her instantly, she cuts him off (literally every time he either does something she didn’t like, or if she thinks it’s handled, and Marks thinking logically, and tries to handle it so it doesn’t comeback to bite them later, because it came back before, and only gotten worse each time.)
Your audio isn’t as good. But it sounds distorted from filters so I don’t know if it’s the new space or the noise gate/suppression. Your audio before was right on point so I’m sure you’ll mail it down. Hope that helps, Rob!
This is the problem I have every time the whole, “Heroes shouldn’t kill/Heroes should kill” topic. It just becomes one old talking in a circle, then add to it the whole rules for some none for others. Okay take Batman, for year people talk about how horrible Gotham is and how in some ways Batman makes it worse and how so much death stuff could be stopped if it would Kill the Joker maybe a few other, to the point where Batman is basically being held responsible/accountable for any and all of the Joker’s actions. I mean in real life you can cough the wrong way and get the death sentence, and outside of “well they wanna keep the Joker around”, how come the Law or even some cop with a well placed shot hasn’t killed him if it’s really that bad? Then you hit the other side which is Superman! Now that is someone who could totally kill all the villains, keep the city safe, the the moment Superman gives someone a bloody nose, everyone loses their minds and suddenly it goes from this talk of killing one person to save a ton of people to this, OMFG Superman killed someone we are now under an Authoritarian Big Brother is Watching you State!! I mean really which is it at this point, Do classic super hero stuff and take the bad guys to jail which in which they will simply get out and kill more people later but you don’t fall to their level, or take out any and all threats and call it a day???
Exactly, they always say Gotham has been so bad for so many years, but metropolis isn’t good because of Superman, if they switched cities and used their same tactics nothing would change.
I always think the logic is that heros should not make the unilateral choice to kill villans or be to harsh as they are vigilantes. It's a slippery slope The government that holds them can bring them to trial and sentence them to the death penalty. Though don't mainly because most 1st world nations in the real world have abolished the practice, and idealy the USA should too. Most likely that could be the stance that comic governments live in.
I think the best comparison would be Batman's vs Punisher's approach. The optimal solution, in my opinion, would be consider how many people they've killed (directly or indirectly). If their body count isn't a major issue than it's not really worth killing them especially if they aren't a constant problem but if they have no problem killing lots of people then it's time to put them down. Is one villain's life worth more than say 10, 20, 50, 100 innocent lives that they had no problem ending? At the very least give them a 3 strikes rule.
@@apimpnamedslickback5936Nolan’s Batman is interesting in this regard. He actually let Ra’s die, circumstantially killed Harvey to protect someone else, and was okay with killing Bane for what he did once he fixed Bane’s horrific mess. He doesn’t kill left and right, but he does do it when it is moral and logical to do so. Curiously, he did rescue Joker when he got neutralized.
Professional musician for a living here, so I can tell the difference between the recording place and your usual Difference in reverb, but most people probably won't notice
Rob I love the way you comment on this stuff. Not being stuck in the classic hero role mindset where you safely apprehend the mass serial killer, send them to Arkham, and hope they get better when they have failed for for close to 100 years in comics. Also I am sure you totally believe Batman would go down on Catwoman. 👍👍 HE HAS HANDLES ON HIS HEAD!!!
Hey rob, just to let you know tmnt the last ronin issues two and three are out. Also could you please cover the boys epilogue and dear Becky. P.S the audio has a bit less quality then normal
If anyone is confused about dupli-Kate being alive here rob forgot to mention that she had a fail safe where she kept one clone hidden away from the world in case all the rest were destroyed.
Yep, that's a plot hole on Rob, maybe he's gonna correct later, but imo it's not important for the plot
So that's not the original. Rip original. I was confused as to why she was there. And also confused about that fact that she banged The Immortal Man when she's near Mark's age (I think) because she was on Teen Team.
@@AnimeGeek139 it is and it isn't, dupli-kate isn't like the mauler twins cloning, her clones are more like a hivemind rather than a separate entity with the same memories, so as long as one body survives it's still the same Kate
THANK YOU, I was so confused
Wow. Most badass self-multiplier ever.
Omni Kid: Sometimes, people just gotta die.
Rob: This Kid spitt’n facts tho...
~_~
Yeah it's amazing how quick rob can get kind of Dictatorial, Like If history hadn't proven already that wasn't a viable political structure.
@Katakuri that part 🤙🏾
😂STOP ✋
@Katakuri you're right they don't know any better
Yo Mark and Oliver are like Nightwing and Damian Wayne in the injustice series. From the morals to the costumes 👌🏾 anyone see this?
One parallel that rob didn’t mention is that during a previous attack on the government, Cecil who was just an agent at the time found out that the two villains who burned his face were being hired by the director as bodyguards. Cecil shot them on the spot and was sent to prison
I think this will be explained later. I don't think Cecil's story was in the same issue, but yes Cecil's story plays a lot into his decision making later.
That's actually pretty cool
I look forward to that story
I think he is gonna save that for another video
“As far as im concerned” - Rob’s nihilism intensifies
😂😂
The funny thing about Oliver's statement is that it shows his immaturity as well. Oliver doesn't value life like Mark because he hasn't lived long enough to actually cherish life. Hasn't been conditioned to understand the loss and preservation of life, hell maybe not even Debbie's. He says "If humans don't think their lives are important, then why should I?" I say if you don't find their lives important then what place do you have in protecting it? A dangerous comment, yes, but my point is that even Nolan learned to treasure life eventually being on earth during his time. Oliver's existence is proof of this, otherwise he would have been executed immediately by viltrimite way of life.
Now the other side of the coin isn't an more pleasant as Marks lack of logic in his actions is his biggest drawback. The notion of morality vs logic is pushed heavily in future comics but his constant acting on pure emotions without thinking about the consequences could end up making him another darkwing, maybe not psychotic but something close. In the end emotions and logic don't stick well because emotions make people do illogical things and logic can come of illogical to emotional people. Invincible works this angle the best because they don't really blur or mince words with this stuff.
Oliver always loved to generalize all of earths inhabitants
That's why I think Oliver and Mark both have good points and also a little bit naive
I find it funny, lessons from jaoanese animation usually are sophisticated but don't tackle this balance of emotions vs. Logic. It usually rewards the hero for their emotional bravery or casts it down by overwhelming power. There no discovery or dance to solving that mystery of the value of life. At least, the anime I'd seen imo.
It isn't even necessarily conditioning. It's genetic. In fact culture has long held the greater effect in human evolution than gene mutations. Society allowed us to lessen needs for survival,.and thus genetics doesn't have to change to adapt as drastically
Oliver fails to realise he's not protecting a humans self-evaluated opinion of their life's worth. He's protecting the opportunity and possibility laying in every person to make their life important, to give it meaning in their own eyes. He's there to protect their freedom to choose to do that. That's the sacred value of human life - that which makes it beautiful - that Oliver is too young and inexperienced to know.
I've known this channel for about 5-10 years and i have to say you've made my life 5x better. Coming from a relatively poor family and never buying a comic book, I've been able to see complete stories that are absolutely badass
Thank you for the experience and i hope you enjoy this year to the fullest
I hope you are doing well
“I surrender! Please don’t hurt me!”
“Oh you’re gonna make this easy for me?”
SAVAGE!
Omni- Kid's costume reminds me of The Incredibles somehow.
He looks more like Robin, and the new suit makes Mark like Nightwing
Damian wane and Nightwing
Doc Seismic talking about his minor in gender studies in the show had me on the floor
Missed opportunity for Omni-kid to say:
"Think! Mark! Think!
Just... wow! SO MANY moral queries and questions that took decades to bring to comics. Exp: OmniKid and Damien Wayne. "Why let the villains live when YOU KNOW they're gonna kill again"
I love this comic
Regarding the new audio space, it's seamless when compared to a video from last week but both sound so quality that it's positive that the new space is still quality par.
Man all this philosophical morality of being a vigilante and apprehending villains instead of killing, but like, we have the death penalty for criminals. That never get used in comics. And if it does, it just becomes a plot device the story.
Well when they break out of prison on a near daily basis I don't even know how often they make it to a trial let alone exhaust all of their appeals for every crime they could be charged with. The average time on death row in the US is 264 months so the only way to realistically get them to execution would be almost certainly illegal as far as due process is concerned.
100%. No seriously 💯Definitely becomes a plot device that’s why you don’t use that & time travel & op snipers that can just shoot you in the noggin from far af away...but comics deviate sometime. In this case it’s pushing the story foward but def still a plot device for sure.
Because it’s pointless to argue, there are no superheroes so it doesn’t apply in the real world. The only reason that discussion takes place in comics is because the writers write ways for the villains to constantly get out of prison. The whole batman not killing the joker is entirely based on the joker being put in the worst prisons with dumb as rocks jailers that keep letting him out.
@@gasstain2532 This applies to reality too
The death penalty is inherently immoral though. It’s easy enough to read a comic where the “bad guys” are SHOWN committing crimes repeatedly, but that isn’t real life. The death penalty is a relic of an era that most of the first world has left behind because it is morally indefensible.
If a man kills another person, do they deserve the death penalty? Some may say yes, some may say no. What if the man he killed had killed another person themselves? More people will often jump from yes to no at that point, while some will say “an eye for an eye” and say he still deserves the death penalty… so WHO is the moral judge? Who deserves the responsibility over other human life? … The only moral answer is no one.
This comic is amazing. After finishing it, I gotta say that its one of my favorites. There’s a weird point where the art style changes for a little bit near the end, but it changes back to the original art style just in time for the EPIC conclusion which just makes it all the better. They then switch back to the new art style for the epilogue, which I think was a good choice there because you’d expect the characters to look different after many years. Overall, I’d give it a 9/10. Truly Amazing and a must read.
This makes Batman not killing his villains seem like a huge ego trip.
Facts, it's the point Jason Todd makes when he asks Batman how come he never killed the Joker
That’s exactly what it is. The guy above me got it right. Batman always just hits Jason harder whenever he mentions the REAL reason why Batman won’t kill his villains, or at least the Joker. He’d feel like he has no purpose if not to catch the villains.
The problem doesn't consist of Batman not killing the Joker, it consists of Batman never fixing the systemic issues in Gotham-as well as the US, & the world at large-which stand in the way of making killing the Joker seem like a bad idea to the average person.
Refusing to kill the villain(s) represents the right move(s)-and failure(s) to prevent future villainry from them represents the real problem(s).
Note that [a] villain(s) needn't have redeemability for refusal(s) to kill to represent the right move(s).
I guess it basically comes down to whether one rejects utilitarianism over infinitely many generations, however personally, I suspect one may suppose the reasonability of decisions over a timescale of infinite generations becomes conceivable of only after reflecting on whether one should considering doing so, which perhaps may seem like '[some ]cosmic background perspective'.
To be fair Gotham should have put Joker and other villains to death a long time ago and that's not Batman fault fully
@@rezr5448 Batman gets all the hate because he's fighting normal people while the other justice members are fighting aliens and monsters. After 20 years, Gotham is still a crappy city.
Oliver is so dope I can't wait to see him in the show
Something else Mark forgets at this point of the comic. Oliver is NOT human. Not even a little bit. It's something Mark comes to truly accept and understand as time goes on. But at this point right here, it's simple fact that went entirely over Mark's head until it was shoved into his face.
Omni-kid has the same philosophy as red hood that’s why I love them
I think the thing is (for me), when heroes kill Villains, they (probably) indirectly safe lives but making the villains change their ways and turn them into helpful assets or some kind of heroes, would really benefit the world way more over all (in the long run), IMO. Like we see with certain villains at the end of the Invincible comics. I think I would rather have a helpful "Villain" that a dead one, also, even though it might not seem that way, villains can change even when it seems hopeless and takes some time, again referencing said villains at the end of the comics. But, I also get the other point of view. This point of view is just my preference.
In my mind, whenever we or someone else says something like “if humanity wanted to fix itself, they would’ve done so already,” that isn’t a good argument to make. You can see that are people and organizations that work for their entire lives to better the world. So when some says that “humanity would’ve fixed itself already,” it’s like they’re so removed from it all. That might be why you have the evil Superman characters saying that kind of stuff. In comparison to us humans, they ARE gods. They can do things that we naturally can’t do ourselves. It’s easy for them to say that when they can do virtually almost anything. It’s easy for them when they’re the ones looking down from high up above.
I just think it’s annoying that prisons have a revolving door.
Recently read the invincible comics myself and felt the interaction between mark and adameve on dating finally was a little relatable but only in how irrational we are. Mark sees a future version of eve who says tell me something, mark and amber break up and eve is like "what's up? " when mark tells her this how is this "pity". Obviously he cares about her more than just that if he doesn't want her to become that version of herself. But then agains its the uncertainty that mark showed when asked. Idk.
*Atom Eve
Love how the New Guardians are playing mario galaxy in the background
Lol
I thought I was going crazy
man I love these invincible videos almost more than I loved the comics
I cant wait for the next one
Rob sliding in that "So far as im concerned..." and im like "YO...!?"
The superheroes in these stories aren't the problem. It's the society they're living in that's the problem. Using Batman as an example, when he catches someone and locks them up, it's the job of the prison system to keep them there to serve their sentence. If they escape, that's not Batman's fault.
Not killing the supervillains isn't the problem, it's that nobody seems capable of building a prison that can hold them, and nobody seems to be able to rehabilitate them.
I feel that stems from (comic book )writers feeling scared of writing Utopias-in-the-making because they think one can't tell stories there (which of course makes no actual sense)
Well that is more the fault of writers and the audience. The prison can only hold a villain until it is necessary for them to break out and regardless of how impossible the situation the villain will be able to procure the tools necessary to break out. If every villain was killed, rehabilitated or held indefinitely there would be no stories. This is also one of my complaints with this kind of "meta" philosophy in stories since it feels more like an indictment of the audience than anything else. Like the writer is pointing out how illogically they have to design their world in order to cater to the demands of their readers.
Happy Father's Day to all the great dad's at there.
Top 20 most powerful DC characters please!
17:40 this is a point I wish more people would truly understand. Sometimes, often times, you can't do good without doing any harm at all. Without sacrifice. The trouble with it on the flip side, is if you choose to kill someone or cause great harm to achieve some sort of outcome, it becomes easier to justify doing cruel and terrible things to get what you want. Sometimes killing is necessary, but its also a slippery slope into becoming a kind of villain, even with good intentions. But alas, stopping someone truly dangerous means you have to kill them. Some people are too powerful, too willful to be controlled and will always only wish to serve themselves. What do you do with someone like that? Even keeping someone alive in confinement is a cruelty. If someone can't be redeemed, its better to end their life than to prolong it in suffering, its wasteful and serves no purpose.
In real life we can't have the death penalty for people like this however, because its an easy path for corruption to route out its enemies. Its too powerful a tool, so it makes the death penalty a real grey area even when someone objectively deserves it.
I love how at the end he didn’t tell us that mark does think back on what Nolan said
You da BOSS with this......and you sound fine bro.
Ayo⁉️
only if he can post the free links to these comics instead of giving a play by play on it
Sus
Pretty sure he's talking about Robs audio
They really wanted Mark to look like Nightwing when they gave him this costume
17:41 The fact Heroes don't kill isn't about "morality" is the same logic as cop killing criminals, but with super-powered people, the thought changes into "If he kills that supervillain, what stops him in turn against the common folk?"
Pretty much. But even with Batman. If they kill, when does it stop? There’s lot of hero’s that turned into villains because when they begin to kill no one’s philosophy is full proof.
10:18 "Cecil knew that darkwing was a psychopath, and he used that information to get darkwing to work for him"
Kinda like how it works in real life, a lot like real life actually. Minus the super powers and weird costumes.
Human life being considered precious to someone is the exact opposite of “I and my morality are more important than innocent lives”. It is, however, narcissistic to believe yourself the arbiter of some kind of absolute justice/authority to dole out death as you see fit and to believe that by not murdering someone in cold blood you are somehow responsible for sacrificing lives to that person should they end other lives. What you describe as logical is simply an emotional reactionary response to death and your framing proves as much. The fact that the characters you believe are being logical are a child that just killed two people with zero remorse (one of whom had surrendered) and a murderous tyrant from an empire of genocidal murderous tyrants proves as much.
exactly, if imprisoning villains means they’ll just break out and kill then the issue is prisons not properly rehabilitating not the heroes refusal to kill
@@tommilocastro3071 rehabilitation and societal changes are the key
Fucking thank you there are some genuinely unstable people in this comment section and Rob’s constant hard right wing comments aren’t helping.
Rob also wants “humanity to be made better”, which implies by force. Hopefully that enforcer isn’t a mid-century German, or Russian!
Rob proves that people like him could never be effective heroes. A hero that kills every villain is feared by regular people more then a villain. Because a hero has the law on his side meaning “you can’t win” even if you are innocent. It can always be covered up and disappear meaning it was pointless.
Love it when Rob gets excited and starts calling things by the wrong names.
I actually sat down and read the whole comic in 3 days. What an amazing read, im so shocked this series is not more popular.
Audio quality is noticeably better! Also thank you for all you do Rob!
I wonder if the show’s going to even make mark have a falling out with him, he knows about the reanimate cyborgs, but maybe the next surprise he have for Mark in the future will be when they have a falling out.
Heroes inspire Hope. Some Heroes exist to be Icons of what is possible, what humanity can be. Some Hero exist to protect that potential, so it's allowed to grow.
People say Batman should kill the Joker in order to prevent more deaths, but I ask why doesn't the legal system kill Joker? It's because they are afraid of taking action that heroes do. Normal people just want to safe dealing only with ordinary problems and want there Heroes to protect them from extraordinary dangers.
Heroes that are willing to kill walk a line between becoming the Hope for Change and the Fear of Change. Hoping for a world where there lives aren't at risk because of a endless cycle. Fearing a world where Heroes become the very thing the normal people are afraid of.
Invincible is a Great Story of Hero and the Changes he makes.
Keep up the Great Videos.
People go to such weird lengths to simp for Batman's no kill rule which is nothing but a marketing gimmick to sell more comics.
@@garuna5688 I know the IRL Reason. If a Hero slaughters villains, eventually the writers are going to run out of material., This actually happened in the old comic like Dick Tracey. This only works with short series and "Beware the Superman" mini-stories.
Personally, I don't think killing would suit the current incarnation of Batman. I would love an Elseworld story, where Gotham super criminals are executed by the government instead of locked up in a revolving door looney bin. Batman commentary on that "Justice".
True but that outlines the problem with heroes as well. They’ll just go in a cycle of letting villains go and the villains killing more people. Their is no progress in that at all. If anything because of that, that holds society back
Batman doesn't have to kill Joker. He could give him a lobotomy or paralyze him. The fact that he doesn't even entertain those options proves the he's negligent.
@@gregmatic2861 Batman is scared of becoming that which he hates. He scared one day he kills a criminal and years later some boy or girl is going to say he killed there parent.
In his nightmares, Batman sees the Batman Who Laughs.
Mole Man hasn’t been important since Fantastic Four #1
I love the conclusion Rob. Very interesting perspective on how the Heroe-Villain morality dynamic works
Feel like we're waxing a little extremist with the idea that killing to stop killing is somehow logical. And who are we to tell someone who puts their life on the line to stop someone's rampage that they have to put aside their own morality to satisfy you or anyone else. It's a slippery slope here and I know Rob thinks he's infallible with the slippery slope deal being a rather dumb argument but it's there for those who haven't slipped into extremism to see.
It’s like saying killing is easy, that’s so far outside every day life how could an average person possibly know what it’s like? Some people seem to think your motives will make it easier to end a human life.
I would say that while it may or may not be extreme or logical to kill to keep others from dying, it is definitely isn't out of the ordinary. Think of the American Revolutionary War. Or the 24 killed during the nuremberg trials. That said, I think sometimes, (very rarely) somebody's got to die. It may or may not be wrong, it is just a by product of life.
@@loglog7 to be fair it's not hard. If you ever wanted to know all you need to do is enlist during a time of war.
@@leoredfield2645 that's all the time in America
@@nodensbertilak6855 God I wish you were right
I love this series Rob! Looking to pick up the volumes now at my local Amazon store keep up the good work!
Rob out here doing his kill criminals bit again.
Because it was literally an important part of the comic
@@spasegeek9214 obviously, ya brick.
I meant that this is a bit he does so frequently that you can see it coming a mile away. It's as synonymous with his content as his "lemme tell you" bit
19:49 Rob it's not logical it's just easy and that doesn't make it efficient.
Yea buddy, robb made my day today
20 minutes less boredom
Sunday video!!!! This is AMAZING!!!
not trying to correct you at all bro love the channel an have for years, at around 18:00 min you say his son, i cant help but feel like you thought about Jupiters legacy in that moment lmao
The conversation mark and his brother had kinda reminded me of the conflicted relationship between the ideals of the Redhood & Batman when they meet after what joker does.
Rob the villain is progressing very nicely.
Omni kids outlook comes from his Traxian Dna (his mothers side). They focus on the entire race rather then the individual because of their short lifespan. Allso oliver remembers everything from childhood to now and has an exalarated learning ability (allso from his mothers side).
Invincible is such a badass comic and so is the show. I mean they took characters from both Marvel & DC and kinda made them a little better.
Except Batman, Darkwing got immediately clapped
Batman wouldn’t attack Superman without a plan, he would at least contact help not axe kick Superman
@@cesar6004 As much I love Bats, you are absolutley right. If that's was The Batman, that scene would've played out very different
Robbb thanks for the new vid perfect to watch at work rn
i am a simple man, i see a video about invincible, i press like.
This series is really good keep it going
The difference in the real world is we don't have super villains who constantly break out of jail and kill again and again.
Cecil employing serial killers is risky. I wouldn't recommend it
Rob is a totalitarian.
Yep
Truth be told, with the mess we are in, many of us are going to need to learn to demonstrate true bravery and honor in sacrificing our morality for the sake of getting business taken care of. You might not agree, but I am glad you see it.
I can hear a bit of a difference but it’s not bad. It might even be a bit clearer than usual, but I like your normal setup, it’s perfect for your voice and enthusiasm
Sound was good my dude . Thanks for the video.
Heroes don't kill because it's wrong. Simple as that.
And for those that would have Batman kill the Joker, why hasn't anyone on the Justice League gone and done it then? Why is this always on Batman? The Flash could make it look literally like a heart attack. Martian Manhunter could probably even psychically lock the Joker's brain from killing, circumventing the need to kill him, but ooooh noooo, Batman is the bad guy here. It's okay for Zatanna to wipe people minds but not cast a spell on the Joker, the worst of the worst? Okay...(I'm being sarcastic btw, I know it's comic book logic lol)
Its the justice systems fault for not executing the joker
This is why Marvel is better. Their fans don't base their morality on marketing gimmicks.
@@garuna5688 😏 thx bud
Yeah it’s comic book logic, it doesn’t have to be Batman. Don’t forget we did have a moment where Superman killed joker, Batman actually has killed joker, my stance mannnn they would’ve saved so many lives if they just killed joker 😂😂.
@@username.exenotfound2943 effectively the problem here. people blame the vigilante for not playing god and circumventing due process yet no one ever seems to turn it back on the government for not doing anything else.
I've watched every day you've posted for the last 5 years. You sound pretty crisp.
It sounded like Rob was saying he was going to go slay criminals 😂
Cecil is doing what Nick Fury or Amanda Waller would do. They work with the worst criminals, to try to save the planet. Happens a lot during the war.
Enemy of my enemy is my friend, and all that jazz.
I think one thing that gets missed is the fact that Nolan's argument of "If humans wanted to correct themselves they would've done it by now" is hypocritical. The Viltrumites have lived longer than humanity and still had all out wars with each other, but were able to come to a point where they were more in unison. Based on Nolan's logic, some other race should have showed up on Viltrum before they stopped killing each other and forced them into compliance. Had that have happened, the Viltrumites wouldn't have grown to be as powerful as they are, because they wouldn't have had the room for growth and development. That's what Nolan doesn't understand. Peace is a long process. You can't force peace. Just look at any dictatorship.
It also doesn’t make sense he doesn’t understand that. He isn’t an idiot, he knows his people’s history and is very capable. He should know how stupid that statement is.
Your logic is ideal, yet unrealistic. Look at Saddam Hussain. Was he a tyrant? Indeed. However, when American government killed him for his crimes, it opened a power vacuum in which ISIS was formed. Their damage seems to be of a greater impact than that of Saddam. Sometimes the lesser of two evils isn't the best option ever, but it's the best option we have at the moment.
PLEASE COVER THE INVINCIBLE SIDE COMICS (mainly Guarding the Globe vol 1 and vol 2, and Invincible Universe) AFTER THEIR CHRONOLOGICAL ISSUES IN THE MAIN SERIES
Whenever they do this talking point, I'd like it if they actually show the people like they did in that animated Superman's Death movie. The people were okay with the clone until he killed Toyman and saw his aggressive nature to upholding the law, everyone was fearful. What if they accidentally dropped trash, jaywalked, just very minor things that would tick this guy off enough to end them? We don't get to see those affects with Darkwing(albeit in his case its where he murders people cause he can get away with it as an excuse for justice) and we always see the terrible extreme jump to Dictator rule. There's never a progression of how going down this path supposedly leads to a dark road.
I do think that it is a pretty slippery slope though because you have to switch something in your brain because there's too much thought put into the amount of details for one person's life, their reasoning, their family, their side of the argument. Its a real thing military people had to train to do and there's a lot of discussion of how you switch it back on. Honestly the perfect Superhero comic will be a thing when they can tip toe this line as its main story theme rather than tossing it in there for cliche discussion.
Mark was trying to give him the whisk great power comes great responsibility speech
I think Eve overreacted, instead of talking about it, like Mark always do whenever she messes up, or just forgive her instantly, she cuts him off (literally every time he either does something she didn’t like, or if she thinks it’s handled, and Marks thinking logically, and tries to handle it so it doesn’t comeback to bite them later, because it came back before, and only gotten worse each time.)
Thank god you did another invincible video
For the love of all things funny, please Rob grace us with another RunDown episode
Another banger keep them coming rob
"A villain worse than omni man" so you mean basically every villain after omni man
Your audio isn’t as good. But it sounds distorted from filters so I don’t know if it’s the new space or the noise gate/suppression. Your audio before was right on point so I’m sure you’ll mail it down. Hope that helps, Rob!
Ayy I'm a sucker for Mark black & blue suit
Thank you Rob, great video
That's the filosofy of Jupiter's Legacy and I loved this moment in the comic
Beyond Omega Level: Icon
Yes please I always ask this
@@Igivegdparent Yeah let's hope we get it.
Im gonna miss the Mauler Twins in the animated series... They were funny and cool.
Same
Great video, sound is just fine, maybe a little less bass in your voice.... Sounds good either way
This is the problem I have every time the whole, “Heroes shouldn’t kill/Heroes should kill” topic. It just becomes one old talking in a circle, then add to it the whole rules for some none for others. Okay take Batman, for year people talk about how horrible Gotham is and how in some ways Batman makes it worse and how so much death stuff could be stopped if it would Kill the Joker maybe a few other, to the point where Batman is basically being held responsible/accountable for any and all of the Joker’s actions. I mean in real life you can cough the wrong way and get the death sentence, and outside of “well they wanna keep the Joker around”, how come the Law or even some cop with a well placed shot hasn’t killed him if it’s really that bad? Then you hit the other side which is Superman! Now that is someone who could totally kill all the villains, keep the city safe, the the moment Superman gives someone a bloody nose, everyone loses their minds and suddenly it goes from this talk of killing one person to save a ton of people to this, OMFG Superman killed someone we are now under an Authoritarian Big Brother is Watching you State!! I mean really which is it at this point, Do classic super hero stuff and take the bad guys to jail which in which they will simply get out and kill more people later but you don’t fall to their level, or take out any and all threats and call it a day???
Exactly, they always say Gotham has been so bad for so many years, but metropolis isn’t good because of Superman, if they switched cities and used their same tactics nothing would change.
I always think the logic is that heros should not make the unilateral choice to kill villans or be to harsh as they are vigilantes. It's a slippery slope
The government that holds them can bring them to trial and sentence them to the death penalty. Though don't mainly because most 1st world nations in the real world have abolished the practice, and idealy the USA should too. Most likely that could be the stance that comic governments live in.
I think the best comparison would be Batman's vs Punisher's approach. The optimal solution, in my opinion, would be consider how many people they've killed (directly or indirectly). If their body count isn't a major issue than it's not really worth killing them especially if they aren't a constant problem but if they have no problem killing lots of people then it's time to put them down. Is one villain's life worth more than say 10, 20, 50, 100 innocent lives that they had no problem ending? At the very least give them a 3 strikes rule.
Its a simple matter of fans not knowing what they want. If batman kills he will be wrong if he doesn't he will still be wrong.
@@apimpnamedslickback5936Nolan’s Batman is interesting in this regard. He actually let Ra’s die, circumstantially killed Harvey to protect someone else, and was okay with killing Bane for what he did once he fixed Bane’s horrific mess.
He doesn’t kill left and right, but he does do it when it is moral and logical to do so. Curiously, he did rescue Joker when he got neutralized.
Professional musician for a living here, so I can tell the difference between the recording place and your usual
Difference in reverb, but most people probably won't notice
DA Sinclair level comment here.
WE NEED MORE OF THIS BEAUTY
Rob I love the way you comment on this stuff. Not being stuck in the classic hero role mindset where you safely apprehend the mass serial killer, send them to Arkham, and hope they get better when they have failed for for close to 100 years in comics.
Also I am sure you totally believe Batman would go down on Catwoman. 👍👍
HE HAS HANDLES ON HIS HEAD!!!
19:25
Crazy that we see eye to eye, Rob.
2:52 oh hey! another rare Image cameo with Savage Dragon =)
Hey rob, just to let you know tmnt the last ronin issues two and three are out. Also could you please cover the boys epilogue and dear Becky. P.S the audio has a bit less quality then normal
Did you know that invincible had crossover with spawn, savage dragon, witchblade, shadowhawk at the same time if not you should read it it's cool
Rob your morality really makes me glad you do not have a finger on any death penalty buttons.
Fr man he’s crazy 😭 ngl
These are my absolute favorite videos!!!
Theres a slight difference with the recording, its just less echoey
Batman: "When you kill a murderer, the number of murderers in the world stays the same.
Omniboy: "... Kill two."
I hope Bruce is watching this, because with his philosophy, he has a lot of blood on his hands in Arkham.
There’s a slightest reverb/echo, your voice is much higher too.
Nice...put the ad tag at exactly the point "You're gonna kill I-" (ad)
Mark's costume is like nightwing and his brother costume like robin
Whoa your right I didn’t see it
The audio is different but it's actually cleaner here
I can hear your room. Dynamic mics need a lot of gain. It's time to acousticly treat your space.
These videos are awesome 👏🏽 it’s fun
3:43 Savage Dragon cameo
I don’t know how I found you…… but I’m glad I did. Watch all of The Invincible volumes. 🔥