I think the biggest source of confusion is just the name "Vibes Movies." Your actual criteria are pretty clearly defined in the video, and it seems it would be more accurately called "Cool Guy Vibes Moves" or something along those lines, because it's not just about vibes but about getting pulled along by globetrotting characters that are more in-the-know than the audience.
But the central point is the movies are about Vibes>everything else. Every movie has vibes, some more cohesive and interesting than others, but most movies don't prioritize vibes over plot and character. I don't think he explained it clearly enough but that is the main point he is making, I think. That's certainly my feeling about Tenant, that film was genius imo.
You might be right, but I think there's value in at least finding a phrase that's gender neutral. It leaves the door open for Cool Gal's Vibes Movies. Or even just Non-Masculine Vibes Movies. Like, Vibes Movies are dope, and a common feature seems to be "follows badass stoic dudes doing cool dude things", but it's worth at least keeping the category open for future movies to break that mold.
03:18 Hey, thanks for showing my comment in the video, didn't mean it as an attack i assure you. Tarantino had recently brought it up in an article saying "sex is not part of his vision of cinema" and that those are really awkward to shoot. I have heard so many famous directors saying they dread shooting those scenes and so I thought as a director if you were in that position of shooting those scenes you would have the same feeling of shying away from it.
I feel like the fact that people commonly misunderstand the criteria Patrick has laid out and instead have many movies they feel fit with this hypothetical genre is a sign that it doesn’t have the correct name. When people hear Vibes Movie, there seems to be a consensus of ‘films more focused on atmosphere and visuals/audio than character and plot’, while Patrick’s definition is more stringently about glamour, locations, and essentially the ‘details’. I feel it’d be helpful to rename the Vibes Movie to something that carries a similar connotation but is also more specific, and so likely necessitates a longer title. I don’t know, like Miami Broccolis (Miami Vice/Barbara Broccoli, producer of the James Bond films). There’s gotta be something somewhere. . . Like, ‘Globe-Swaggering Films’ (instead of globe-trotting).
Lol, I had just mentioned in another comment that they should be called something like "style" movies but that doesn't ellicit quite the right feel... I'd love for someone to land on the right name. Maybe something like "Glam Noir," if you want to lean towards specificity.
This! The whole time I was watching the vibes video I would have to constantly remind myself of the criteria Patrick laid out because to me vibes means closer to an atmospheric art film and really don’t see how globetrotting is a ‘vibe’
@@not.applicable. The comment I was looking for! These are probably my favorite category of movies (literally Mann and Nolan and 007 populate the majority of my top 10 list) and I also struggled with using the word "vibes" to describe them. I thought about "cool" or "cool guy" as others have mentioned, but "cool" has too many different interpretations. Lots of people think Michael Bay or Quentin Tarantino movies are defined by "coolness", and they certainly don't belong in the same category. I think the common thread is that they take a scenario or universe that is dark and gritty, and cover it inside and out with aspirational aesthetics that are usually reserved for brighter and prettier stories. Drug cops, but with Phil Collins and speedboats. Government hitmen, but with sports cars on the French Riviera. A lonely spy, but with time travel and tailored suits. Film noir, but make it glamorous. Glam Noir. You nailed it.
Man, I really like that Terrence Malick vid. Unironically one of my favorite studies of a director's oeuvre that you've done. I've watched it a few times
Woo hoo, thanks Emma, for picking my question! Thanks for answering it, Patrick! Glad to hear that my assessment of your assessment was correct. Also, you were very close at pronouncing my name, but the "tz" at the end actually makes a "ch" sound -- not to be confused with the "ch" in the middle, which makes a "ck" (as you correctly identified). No worries; it's not phonetic at all, so literally nobody gets it right on the first try :^)
Seems like Vibes is really just Noir with extra steps, because so much of it is about atmosphere rather than plot. I mean, if you put The Maltese Falcon on a yacht and add some elaborate setpieces, it'd fit right in with Miami Vice, etc. lol!
I think it might have been more accurate to call these "style" movies, (i.e. - style over substance), though admittedly it's not quite as engaging a name.
@@not.applicable. yeah I could see that, although I think maybe instead of style over substance it's more like "style is where the substance is." Saying style over substance seems too derogatory!
I want Terry Gilliam opinions. He’s my favorite director and I don’t understand why he doesn’t get more love. Holy shit, just watch Time Bandits or Brazil or Holy 😂 Grail. I was a kid in the 80s and other than Spielberg and Lucas, no other filmmaker shaped my mind as much, but in ways i was much less aware of. When I rewatch his stuff, it’s like I’m finally seeing my dreams manifest. Please do a video on this experience.
Bollywood was a great episode. #MissionImPatPossible #SendEmmaOnLocation It'd be fun to send Emma somewhere significant to film, have her take pics and interact with the environment, but then have Patrick explain the importance of what she's seeing when she gets back and watch her shrug it off to get back to work explaining kilms to people.
Okay, here are some anime movies that could be IMHO considered as "vibe movies": - As Patrick mentioned the 1995 adaptation of "Ghost in the Shell" and its 2004 sequel "Innocence". I would also include from the same director Mamoru Oshii, 1985's "Angel's Egg" and 2008's "The Sky Crawlers". (Yes, there also Urusei Yatsura: Beautiful Dreamer and the two Patlabor: The Movie (especially the second one) which counts, but they're from previously established series) - Makoto Shinkai's more early work could be considered as "vibey": especially 2007's "5 Centimeters per second" and 2011's "the garden of Words". . Maasaki Yuasa's debut film "MindGame" is definitely a vibe movie and his entire body of work can defined as such
As a semi-casual Shinkai fan i was inclined to agree, but i feel the lack of momentum and any sort of spectacle knocks off big points for his early work. The plots are also always light for the most part, the films are instead carried by meaning and subtext. But outside of Pat's criteria i do view them as a certain type of vibe movie, the somber romantic drama kind. The romantic stakes are also different if we're comparing them to say, a spy noir. It's usually about societal or maybe emotional boundaries "dooming" the romantic relationships, whereas in the kind of vibe movie Pat was talking about sets up a romance that potentially would cost the characters' lives if pursued, since they're in constant danger. Ultimately tho Shinkai films present unique kinds of vibes that don't fit here, but are worth exploring. Great list anyways, some titles i haven't checked out in there so thanks!
Mamoru Oshii is definitely a VIBES director. Angel's Egg, The Patlabor films, Urusei Yatsura: Beautiful Dreamer, Ghost In the Shell (of course), and his late live-action work like Avalon, is poetry on screen. Makoto Shinkai is moody drama and spectacular visuals, but doesn't really meet the criteria. Yuuasa is a category all his own, and that is a compliment to what he does with animation.
9:10 I'm sorta with movieslinger here. Granted english isn't my first language, so I'm at a disadvantage, but seriously, there are terms in Scott's explanation that I just don't know how to interpret. I think I still kinda get the general idea of what a heat check is, but... for example, what the hell does "4 for 4" or "5 for 5" mean?
I wonder if they're asking about Twin Peaks because you never _technically_ see Cooper go home in the old seasons, but in this context I think his hotel room counts as his home, and he returns to it frequently. Just by the nature of Twin Peaks' setting, you spend a lot of time with people in their homes, and the vibes are often more goofy than dramatic. As Lynch goes, you'd make it a lot further on this scale with Lost Highway or Mullholland Drive, since they're much more neo-noir with tortured protagonists in frequently luxurious settings, though even those are only going to get so far.
Lol, disappointed my question didn't get chosen. I was really hoping for an opinion on the Bourne movies... but given Patrick's responses in this video, I doubt they would've made the cut as vibes movie. Definitely not enough glamour lol.
I think the difference between VIBES movies versus more atmospheric films is more like the difference between expressionist and impressionist films, respectively. VIBES movies get you to kind of feel how they want you to feel without doing it through plot (or at least understanding of plot) whereas atmospheric artsy films, while heavy on vibes, wouldn’t be VIBES movies by your definition and more just give the viewer space to feel what they will based on the subtle pushes by the film. So my feeling would be that Tenet and Beyond the Black Rainbow would be expressionist while 2001 and Primer would be impressionist, all of them being vibes movies, but only one falling into the category of VIBES movies.
I can't believe he didn't mention Collateral, my favorite Michael Mann movie. It's definitely not a vibes movie but it looks like one. Incredible Tom Cruise performance as well.
If Jamie Fox was a pilot moving Tom Cruise around different international locations for assassinations instead of a limo driver collateral could be a mid/high V.I.B.E.S. scorer.
I agree, though I think Winterbottom has much more consistent themes/fixations in his films: the frequent returns to classic literary adaptations, his insistence on inserting contemporary British socialist politics wherever possible, no matter how relevant, and his deep Northwestern English pride.
IMO the biggest aspect people are missing when they suggest stuff like Excalibur or Tron or Leone westerns is that the kind of vibes movie we're talking about is not just one that focuses on **any** vibe over story, it's about one **specific** vibe. And the vibe we mean here has a sense of aspirational coolness or something to envy that we'd want in the real world. It's not just about globe-trotting locations or tacit characters. It's about instilling a desire to emulate elements of the movie and characters. We want to seduce and drive like James Bond, we want to dress and shoot like Crockett and Tubbs, we want to move through dangerous situations with ice-cold confidence like the Protagonist. This means a vibes movie has to occur in a universe like our own (no space operas or fantasies, no historical films) and have people behaving in ways that are aspirational in an "alpha" sense.
Although it may be the worst one in terms of consistency, the outlier status of M:I-2 (IMO) makes it the most VIBES entry in the series. Ethan is full-on romantic action hero here in a way he never is again (and THAT HAIR). He's a magnetic superagent and suave ladies man. The plot is adhering even closer to Bond films, casting Anthony Hopkins in an "M" role (never to be seen again), but also incorporates banter in early scenes reminiscent of To Catch a Thief or The Thomas Crown Affair. Thandiwe Newton is a Bond Girl. While not a huge number of locations, the characters do travel between the US, Spain, and Australia. The antagonist, Sean Ambrose, is literally and figuratively Ethan's dark reflection, even employing wearing his face on occasion. He also seems to be a rogue IMF agent with his own team. There's even a midpoint meeting during a tower heist. The plague-like mythologically-named virus Chimera, and it's antidote Bellerephon are treated with the most solemn voice-over by a character who dies within the first 5-minutes of the film. Longing looks, caresses, and close-ups. Staring at the Sea.
Certainly a solid case for M:I2. Ethan grappling with loneliness through a (sort-of) doomed romance. It's the movie where he's least humanized imo since everything post-Julia and post-Ilsa kind of lets the audience in on him a little more. Compared to the other entries the visual impressions and technical details of each mission slightly overtake the story which was hard to remember.
pretty disappointed that the Bourne trilogy didn't get a mention in either the original video or this one, considering I think they're easily closer to "Vibes Movies" than the John Wick movies
Neuromancer is potentially getting a tv series adaptation since apple got the rights not too long ago. Its has potential to be an actual good adaptation with the success of The peripheral ( which got a second season ). So now would be a good time to read the sprawl trilogy.
I've always associated the use of "tone poem" in reference to essentially commercial movies that don't really merit it with George Lucas using the term to defend the Star Wars prequels
That isn't what Lucas said. Lucas said he wanted to _make_ tone poems now that he no longer owned Lucasfilm, could wash his hands of the Star Wars franchise, and would never have to concern himself with making money through his art.
People outside the US don't tend to be very familiar with US sportspeople (or the sports themselves). Most people I know wouldn't know who Steph Curry was. I could tell you he is a basketball player but I couldn't pick him out of a line-up.
Anime vibes movies? Oshii's films in general. His first Ghost in the Shell in particular. Another contender from asia markets may be Hong Kong era John Woo action flicks. More than John Wick, you get more the melancholic doomed relationships. Hard Boiled is basically Woo's take on Miami Vice. Especially how you follow Tony Leung trying to navigate his conflicting roles as an undercover cop in the stylish gangster underworld without getting himself and those he loves killed (the precursor in my mind to the later Infernal Affairs series and Scorcese's remake). Seeing Tony speed down the highway in an open top sportscar to cool music and screaming out his frustrations on his boat home. Dreaming of moving to the polar regions because it's always light there (conveniently forgetting that half the year is in darkness as well) Yeah, sure. Hard Boiled is known for its extensive action scenes. But I do feel it fits more than the John Wick films.
What about Indiana Jones?.... It does have glamour, takes place across multiple countries, only the immediate goal matters(at least lesser than the final goal).
Patrick please just answer the question- is The Big Lebowski a cousin of the vibe movie???? I think it would at the very least score highly on your rubric.
they could be adjacent at least, since VIBES movies are children of film noir, and the big lebowski is literally a film noir with an unexpected vibe. but that unexpected vibe is going to be very counter to patrick's definition of VIBES movies.
I think you just mean... Spy movies. I do not understand how John Wick could POSSIBLY not count as a "vibe" movie. I know it's a silly made up criteria but I'm also feeling it's inconsistent to be honest. Love the videos though...
For sure! I think it deserves a mention in the conversation for being so far into the "you are not meant to understand the plot" direction, but the generally meandering, unmomentous pace and the insincere tone probably disqualifies it in the end.
@@Reecer77 I find it somewhat paradoxical in the momentum aspect. It sort of starts very slow, but all the chaos, mystery and the detective story just creeps on you with momentum towards the end.. I think it scores high in glamour, loneliness. The momentum is not high, but it is sort of there. Spectacle is the hardest, it doesn't really set pieces but I feel the spectacle is the weirdness of those places and situations, all of the places he visit are weird and chaotic.
I am a MAJOR Michael Mann fan, but not everything he's done agrees with me. Blackhat definitely did not. I was one of the few who saw it theatrically, and lord, was I sorely disappointed. Hemsworth felt miscast, the plot was nothing what Mann was telling people it was about, and it felt very emotionally closed off and distant. The digital cinematography was the harshest style he had done yet, and I just overall was having none of it. If Mann wasn't involved the marketing never would've gotten me into the theatre. Vice was a long 15 years journey of ups and downs, disliking it, misunderstanding it, appreciating it, and bouncing back and forth everywhere. It took a very thorough analysis, going deeply into examining the film with the theatrical and director's cuts of the film, listening to Mann's commentary, reading interviews, researching it deeply, and digging up every piece of awry production issues to finally get to really respecting and clicking with it all the way. Mann is the filmmaker that makes me want to be a filmmaker. The Insider may be his best film, but Heat is my all-time favorite film, full stop. So, I think we get each other on him being a master of VIBES and having complicated and intelligently stylish films that require some deeper exploration overall. The Keep could be a VIBES movie, but it wouldn't hit the glamor end of things, despite the surreal, Manhunter-esque cinematography. The plot is a bit choppy because the studio cut a good hour of the story out, and Mann didn't get to fully make the film he intended to after the original visual effects artist passed away during filming. It's a complicated film that even the author of the original book hates. I don't particularly like it, but I understand why. There was a Region Free DVD in Australia that I grabbed, but it's apparently for rent on several VOD services, it seems. Anyway, anytime you wanna talk more Michael Mann, I'll be glued to the screen while you do it! I watched the VIBES video twice, and it's just a stellar piece of craftsmanship. I haven't even seen Tenet, and you've got it stuck into my head now.
I know I'm coming at this like a year late (blame the YT algorithm for not surfacing Patrick sooner), but over and over these "does this count" "no that doesn't" seem to get knocked down because the suggestions are vibes movies in the . In one of the early responses, Patrick talked about how _Miami Vice_ and _Tenet_ live in a certain genre, and defy the normal expectations of that genre. And it seems (looking at the rubric) that a lot of the stylistic expectations of the glamorous globetrotting LEO genre have gotten mixed into his definition. Does _The Green Knight_ count? No; it's not a glamorous, globetrotting spy/police movie. Does _Tron: Legacy_ count? No; it's not a glamorous, globetrotting spy/police movie. Rinse; repeat. But if you try to pull that genre *out* of the definition, I think that there's a much more fundamental idea going on here, which the commenters are all getting at (vibing with?) but which Patrick keeps rejecting out of hand just because they're not vibes movies *in the particular genre that originally sparked his attention*.
Green Knight definitely doesn't belong in the vibes category given that it's a film focused almost entirely on character development and the personal journey. Sure it doesn't have a very conventional narrative structure, and yes it's heavy on atmosphere, but each episode of the story is very purposeful in testing Gawain's character against one of the 5 chivalric virtues of becoming a knight, and so in that sense is a very traditional character study.
Patrick in this video: "come on guys, learn a little about sports!" Patrick in his last video - literally has no clue about the second most popular sport in the entire world (cricket)
Okay but, Is the nice guys a vibes film? It doesn’t go all over the world, but it goes all over LA to a bunch of gorgeous and high end locations. Not one, but two of the main characters are lonely and miserable. And the plot is dense as hell. Also that atmosphere
As far as anime movies go, Patlabor: The Movie is the ultimate anime vibes movie. The umbrella plot is a mystery about robots going rogue and turning on humans, and is extremely convoluted, so a lot of scenes are just down-on-their-luck beat cops (who pilot giant robots) just hanging out and being bored in the sweltering summer heat. It's missing glamorous locales and rich people but it's like an even less plot-centric Ghost in the Shell (which makes sense because it was also directed by Mamoru Oshii).
Most of this video just people misunderstanding the point of the main video. It's a very specific type of movie. But may be Patrick's fault for calling them vibes movies.
I think the whole vibes thing is a way to make uninteresting self indulgent blockbusters by established directors seem better than they are. I totally get the fact that not everything has to be logical, a glance at art movies, surrealism, and abstract movies makes this all too clear, but these movies are poetic possibly both visually and story wise. They are usually touching upon something quite human. There’s nothing human about James Bond, it’s a symbol, it’s spectacle, it’s noise. It seems these vibes movies draws upon the worst of all its sources without an understanding of what makes these films popular. If I would want to enjoy something for the vibes or atmosphere I would pick a new wave film, or something by Ozu or basically any movie where images are more than dull gray mass and a constant barrage of dialogue and plot which (by your definition) is nonsensical in these movies. Tenet is the perfect example. Nolan tries to "experiment" on the blockbuster and is in my opinion failing, all the way from Dunkirk. But there is a constant need to reframe these experiments as a sucess instead of just saying: he mad a bad, or a boring movie. Everybody does at some point and it’s okey. The story of Tenet is nonsensical, philosophy and themes are vague or even nonexistent, characters flat, but still it’s good because locations and vibes? No. If this is media critic we can reframe every movie failure to a sucess. Miami Vice is the same way. Reframing things that are usually bad in a movie to something that is good. It’s okey to like movies that aren’t that great, it’s okey to try and argue that they are better than people give them credit for, but to try and say that there is some genius subversion at play or that they are some kind of misunderstood masterpiece is to me just totally dishonest. It’s totally fine to like these movies, but don’t try to do the old "you were all just too stupid to get it" that they tried to do with the Phantom Menace. Anyways, the bollywood episode was fantastic! This is just a critique, no harm meant. We all love movies and so on and so forth.
Some folks have spit roasted me over this haha, but after your other vibes movie vid, I started describing studio Ghibli movies as vibes movies. They're GREAT, they're BEAUTIFUL pieces of art, but they are in it for the vibes. Dig too deep into the plot of a Ghibli movie and it will fall apart like pretty colored sand, but the VIBES and the feelings evoked? Clear and immaculate.
Absolutely not. Studio Ghibli films usually have very very belivable worlds where every last detail feels coherent and lived in and the characters have very clear sympathetic goals and easy to understand motivations. Neither is the plot hard to comprehend or unimportant at any point. The only one that might be like that is Howl's Moving Castle. Although not at all a VIBES movie by Patrick's definition it seems as though it's meant to be enjoyed similarly to Tenet at least on a first viewing.
You and I clearly think of different things when we hear the word "VIBES", to me the Super Rich are the antithesis of Vibes. Things I recommend firstly for the Vibes would be like Serial Experiments Lain or an Ikuhara Anime. But it seems like Anime closer to your criteria would be like Noir and Madlax which are also two of my favorites.
To clarify since I didn’t actually make this point before: these movies are usually about characters infiltrating the world of the super-rich (since, y’know, spies), but they’re not super rich themselves. So you get the appearance of luxury but not the comfort
@@patrickhwillems I'll also add the the Live Action Boogiepop and Others movie shares the quality of a Plot that is good but not very straight forward.
Sex scenes are fine as long as they serve the story somehow. The two sex scenes in "A History of Violence" are an important contrast and say a lot about the relationship. "Watchmen" uses a similiar contrast. Most sex scenes in movies add little to the plot or characterization; they are gratuitous fan service. You don't need a sex scene to show two characters are passionately in love with each other. P.S. Obligatory fanboy "Yay! Patrick read my comment!" comment.
I love vibe movies. They subvert, slow down, mix things up. Although the whole 'cross countries' thing is for a specific sub genre of vibe movies. So, yes, Westerns, dramas can all be vibe movies, but Tenet fires in for the James Bond style vibe movies. Only it isn't. Or while it is, it just fails in how to balance vibes movies. Yer see the Vibe movie needs to be engaging on different levels than the conventions of the genre. Internal when we expect external. Plot contrivence/non-importance in plot heavy genres. And this is where Tenet fails. It invests in plot while telling us it doesn't matter. It's not internal either. The characters are bland and our lead just reactionary/uninteresting. The 'concept' (which tenet thrives on) is...intellectually interesting but visually uninteresting no matter the philosophical underpinnings. Essentially the concept in action looks confused and film going backwards with other stuff in the frame going forward. It looks confused. I mean you can explain it in a n interesting way, but it is still visually confused and uninteresting. When you can see film going backwards here where and anywhere...so what? And this is where the vibe label can fall short. It can let films off the hook. Just feel it man. Yes, but watching film is active. You're doing too much. Just feel the vibe. But it has a story and I'm trying to work out what it is. You're missing the point. You don't get it. Feel it, don't understand it. But the dialogue is muffled. You're not meant to hear it. Just vibe with it. So, why not make a vibe movie and don't have the dialogue??? It's not that kind of movie...yadda yadda yadda. That's lazy both film making and criticism. Vibe movies can be great within genre film making. Tenet just isn't one of them.
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-Patrick Willems, 2023
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-Patrick Willems, 2023
I think the biggest source of confusion is just the name "Vibes Movies." Your actual criteria are pretty clearly defined in the video, and it seems it would be more accurately called "Cool Guy Vibes Moves" or something along those lines, because it's not just about vibes but about getting pulled along by globetrotting characters that are more in-the-know than the audience.
Missed opportunity. Could've called the video "The Spytacular genre", "Killery Swank movies" or "Wonder-cover films."
But the central point is the movies are about Vibes>everything else.
Every movie has vibes, some more cohesive and interesting than others, but most movies don't prioritize vibes over plot and character.
I don't think he explained it clearly enough but that is the main point he is making, I think.
That's certainly my feeling about Tenant, that film was genius imo.
You might be right, but I think there's value in at least finding a phrase that's gender neutral. It leaves the door open for Cool Gal's Vibes Movies. Or even just Non-Masculine Vibes Movies.
Like, Vibes Movies are dope, and a common feature seems to be "follows badass stoic dudes doing cool dude things", but it's worth at least keeping the category open for future movies to break that mold.
I agree. The term “Vibes Movie” gives the wrong impression of Patrick’s description and criteria
Basketball may have been confusing, but don't worry, presumably all the sports references in Patrick's video now will be cricket metaphors.
That will make for a sticky wicket.
03:18 Hey, thanks for showing my comment in the video, didn't mean it as an attack i assure you. Tarantino had recently brought it up in an article saying "sex is not part of his vision of cinema" and that those are really awkward to shoot. I have heard so many famous directors saying they dread shooting those scenes and so I thought as a director if you were in that position of shooting those scenes you would have the same feeling of shying away from it.
this is sooooo funny considering his scene with salma hayek from dusk til dawn 💀
@@spartida3850 ah, but he didn't have to shoot that one, so it wasn't awkward for him!
I feel like the fact that people commonly misunderstand the criteria Patrick has laid out and instead have many movies they feel fit with this hypothetical genre is a sign that it doesn’t have the correct name. When people hear Vibes Movie, there seems to be a consensus of ‘films more focused on atmosphere and visuals/audio than character and plot’, while Patrick’s definition is more stringently about glamour, locations, and essentially the ‘details’. I feel it’d be helpful to rename the Vibes Movie to something that carries a similar connotation but is also more specific, and so likely necessitates a longer title. I don’t know, like Miami Broccolis (Miami Vice/Barbara Broccoli, producer of the James Bond films). There’s gotta be something somewhere. . . Like, ‘Globe-Swaggering Films’ (instead of globe-trotting).
Lol, I had just mentioned in another comment that they should be called something like "style" movies but that doesn't ellicit quite the right feel...
I'd love for someone to land on the right name. Maybe something like "Glam Noir," if you want to lean towards specificity.
The Spytacular genre. Killery Swank movies. Wonder-cover films.
This! The whole time I was watching the vibes video I would have to constantly remind myself of the criteria Patrick laid out because to me vibes means closer to an atmospheric art film and really don’t see how globetrotting is a ‘vibe’
I think films that focus on atmosphere and visuals over characters ect are called tone poems...
@@not.applicable. The comment I was looking for! These are probably my favorite category of movies (literally Mann and Nolan and 007 populate the majority of my top 10 list) and I also struggled with using the word "vibes" to describe them. I thought about "cool" or "cool guy" as others have mentioned, but "cool" has too many different interpretations. Lots of people think Michael Bay or Quentin Tarantino movies are defined by "coolness", and they certainly don't belong in the same category.
I think the common thread is that they take a scenario or universe that is dark and gritty, and cover it inside and out with aspirational aesthetics that are usually reserved for brighter and prettier stories. Drug cops, but with Phil Collins and speedboats. Government hitmen, but with sports cars on the French Riviera. A lonely spy, but with time travel and tailored suits. Film noir, but make it glamorous. Glam Noir. You nailed it.
Downey Jr's Sherlock Holmes feels surprisingly VIBESy to me
Not only did my question get featured first, but Patrick even read my name correctly!! Thanks for the answer!
I was wondering how he would rank Michael Mann's Collateral on the vibes scale.
Man, I really like that Terrence Malick vid. Unironically one of my favorite studies of a director's oeuvre that you've done. I've watched it a few times
Woo hoo, thanks Emma, for picking my question! Thanks for answering it, Patrick! Glad to hear that my assessment of your assessment was correct.
Also, you were very close at pronouncing my name, but the "tz" at the end actually makes a "ch" sound -- not to be confused with the "ch" in the middle, which makes a "ck" (as you correctly identified). No worries; it's not phonetic at all, so literally nobody gets it right on the first try :^)
Are you at all related to Ber Borochov?
@@SamAronow Not that I know of.
Those John Wick Italy shots look real good.
Seems like Vibes is really just Noir with extra steps, because so much of it is about atmosphere rather than plot. I mean, if you put The Maltese Falcon on a yacht and add some elaborate setpieces, it'd fit right in with Miami Vice, etc. lol!
I think it might have been more accurate to call these "style" movies, (i.e. - style over substance), though admittedly it's not quite as engaging a name.
@@not.applicable. yeah I could see that, although I think maybe instead of style over substance it's more like "style is where the substance is." Saying style over substance seems too derogatory!
@@two_owls lol, hard agree.
I want Terry Gilliam opinions. He’s my favorite director and I don’t understand why he doesn’t get more love. Holy shit, just watch Time Bandits or Brazil or Holy 😂 Grail.
I was a kid in the 80s and other than Spielberg and Lucas, no other filmmaker shaped my mind as much, but in ways i was much less aware of. When I rewatch his stuff, it’s like I’m finally seeing my dreams manifest.
Please do a video on this experience.
I also love how the title sequence features Patrick Ethan-Hunt-running for half of it. Awesome!
Bollywood was a great episode. #MissionImPatPossible #SendEmmaOnLocation It'd be fun to send Emma somewhere significant to film, have her take pics and interact with the environment, but then have Patrick explain the importance of what she's seeing when she gets back and watch her shrug it off to get back to work explaining kilms to people.
I haven't seen it, but Focus (2015) feels like a vibes movie.
Replying to animated vibe movies: Wizards Ralph Bakshi 1977
Bakshi's animated films often felt like vibes films: Wizards, Cool World, maybe even Fritz.
Okay, here are some anime movies that could be IMHO considered as "vibe movies":
- As Patrick mentioned the 1995 adaptation of "Ghost in the Shell" and its 2004 sequel "Innocence". I would also include from the same director Mamoru Oshii, 1985's "Angel's Egg" and 2008's "The Sky Crawlers".
(Yes, there also Urusei Yatsura: Beautiful Dreamer and the two Patlabor: The Movie (especially the second one) which counts, but they're from previously established series)
- Makoto Shinkai's more early work could be considered as "vibey": especially 2007's "5 Centimeters per second" and 2011's "the garden of Words".
. Maasaki Yuasa's debut film "MindGame" is definitely a vibe movie and his entire body of work can defined as such
As a semi-casual Shinkai fan i was inclined to agree, but i feel the lack of momentum and any sort of spectacle knocks off big points for his early work. The plots are also always light for the most part, the films are instead carried by meaning and subtext. But outside of Pat's criteria i do view them as a certain type of vibe movie, the somber romantic drama kind. The romantic stakes are also different if we're comparing them to say, a spy noir. It's usually about societal or maybe emotional boundaries "dooming" the romantic relationships, whereas in the kind of vibe movie Pat was talking about sets up a romance that potentially would cost the characters' lives if pursued, since they're in constant danger. Ultimately tho Shinkai films present unique kinds of vibes that don't fit here, but are worth exploring. Great list anyways, some titles i haven't checked out in there so thanks!
Mamoru Oshii is definitely a VIBES director. Angel's Egg, The Patlabor films, Urusei Yatsura: Beautiful Dreamer, Ghost In the Shell (of course), and his late live-action work like Avalon, is poetry on screen.
Makoto Shinkai is moody drama and spectacular visuals, but doesn't really meet the criteria.
Yuuasa is a category all his own, and that is a compliment to what he does with animation.
9:10 I'm sorta with movieslinger here. Granted english isn't my first language, so I'm at a disadvantage, but seriously, there are terms in Scott's explanation that I just don't know how to interpret. I think I still kinda get the general idea of what a heat check is, but... for example, what the hell does "4 for 4" or "5 for 5" mean?
I wonder if they're asking about Twin Peaks because you never _technically_ see Cooper go home in the old seasons, but in this context I think his hotel room counts as his home, and he returns to it frequently. Just by the nature of Twin Peaks' setting, you spend a lot of time with people in their homes, and the vibes are often more goofy than dramatic.
As Lynch goes, you'd make it a lot further on this scale with Lost Highway or Mullholland Drive, since they're much more neo-noir with tortured protagonists in frequently luxurious settings, though even those are only going to get so far.
Please go to Japan next 🙏🏾
Lol, disappointed my question didn't get chosen. I was really hoping for an opinion on the Bourne movies... but given Patrick's responses in this video, I doubt they would've made the cut as vibes movie. Definitely not enough glamour lol.
The Bollywood episode is perhaps my fave on your channel. Really well done. ❤
Emma, could we have a link to the original video in the description please?
I think the difference between VIBES movies versus more atmospheric films is more like the difference between expressionist and impressionist films, respectively. VIBES movies get you to kind of feel how they want you to feel without doing it through plot (or at least understanding of plot) whereas atmospheric artsy films, while heavy on vibes, wouldn’t be VIBES movies by your definition and more just give the viewer space to feel what they will based on the subtle pushes by the film. So my feeling would be that Tenet and Beyond the Black Rainbow would be expressionist while 2001 and Primer would be impressionist, all of them being vibes movies, but only one falling into the category of VIBES movies.
I can't believe he didn't mention Collateral, my favorite Michael Mann movie.
It's definitely not a vibes movie but it looks like one.
Incredible Tom Cruise performance as well.
If Jamie Fox was a pilot moving Tom Cruise around different international locations for assassinations instead of a limo driver collateral could be a mid/high V.I.B.E.S. scorer.
Seems an awful lot like “vibes movie” literally just means spy movie
Would be interested in your thoughts on Michael Winterbottom’s filmography. I see real parallels with Soderbergh.
I agree, though I think Winterbottom has much more consistent themes/fixations in his films: the frequent returns to classic literary adaptations, his insistence on inserting contemporary British socialist politics wherever possible, no matter how relevant, and his deep Northwestern English pride.
IMO the biggest aspect people are missing when they suggest stuff like Excalibur or Tron or Leone westerns is that the kind of vibes movie we're talking about is not just one that focuses on **any** vibe over story, it's about one **specific** vibe. And the vibe we mean here has a sense of aspirational coolness or something to envy that we'd want in the real world. It's not just about globe-trotting locations or tacit characters. It's about instilling a desire to emulate elements of the movie and characters. We want to seduce and drive like James Bond, we want to dress and shoot like Crockett and Tubbs, we want to move through dangerous situations with ice-cold confidence like the Protagonist. This means a vibes movie has to occur in a universe like our own (no space operas or fantasies, no historical films) and have people behaving in ways that are aspirational in an "alpha" sense.
Can we get a loop of Patrick chanting “Bone! Bone! Bone! Bone!”
I can actually make the argument that "The Insider" is a strong vibes movie from Mann
This video gives VIBES
I couldn't agree more
Anime: Red Line
Sci-Fi: Valorian
Although it may be the worst one in terms of consistency, the outlier status of M:I-2 (IMO) makes it the most VIBES entry in the series.
Ethan is full-on romantic action hero here in a way he never is again (and THAT HAIR). He's a magnetic superagent and suave ladies man.
The plot is adhering even closer to Bond films, casting Anthony Hopkins in an "M" role (never to be seen again), but also incorporates banter in early scenes reminiscent of To Catch a Thief or The Thomas Crown Affair. Thandiwe Newton is a Bond Girl.
While not a huge number of locations, the characters do travel between the US, Spain, and Australia.
The antagonist, Sean Ambrose, is literally and figuratively Ethan's dark reflection, even employing wearing his face on occasion. He also seems to be a rogue IMF agent with his own team. There's even a midpoint meeting during a tower heist.
The plague-like mythologically-named virus Chimera, and it's antidote Bellerephon are treated with the most solemn voice-over by a character who dies within the first 5-minutes of the film.
Longing looks, caresses, and close-ups.
Staring at the Sea.
Certainly a solid case for M:I2. Ethan grappling with loneliness through a (sort-of) doomed romance.
It's the movie where he's least humanized imo since everything post-Julia and post-Ilsa kind of lets the audience in on him a little more.
Compared to the other entries the visual impressions and technical details of each mission slightly overtake the story which was hard to remember.
Honestly was a little scared that this show was cancelled so it’s good to see it’s still going
pretty disappointed that the Bourne trilogy didn't get a mention in either the original video or this one, considering I think they're easily closer to "Vibes Movies" than the John Wick movies
I would totally buy a Patrick Willems stripes pint glass.
We've seen your hand-eye coordination. Don't worry about coming off as a jock.
dude I played lacrosse for years. cricket batting is just weird
Neuromancer is potentially getting a tv series adaptation since apple got the rights not too long ago. Its has potential to be an actual good adaptation with the success of The peripheral ( which got a second season ). So now would be a good time to read the sprawl trilogy.
Although it's not live action, Paprika by Satoshi Kon definitely scores high on the vibes scale. I mean, it inspired Inception.
very hard to find a way to watch it these days. but ruroni kenshin trust and betrayal is a vibes movie fr fr
I've always associated the use of "tone poem" in reference to essentially commercial movies that don't really merit it with George Lucas using the term to defend the Star Wars prequels
That isn't what Lucas said. Lucas said he wanted to _make_ tone poems now that he no longer owned Lucasfilm, could wash his hands of the Star Wars franchise, and would never have to concern himself with making money through his art.
The Iyashikei genre may fit that in the Vibes category.
The best VIBES movie is obviously Night of the Coconut
Link to the Mr beast vid?
wibbly wobbly timey wimey
Random VIBES movies contenders:
- The Dark Knight (globetrotting, glamour, brooding/doomed relationships)
Does Highlander count as a Vibe movie? I think it fulfills the criteria
People outside the US don't tend to be very familiar with US sportspeople (or the sports themselves). Most people I know wouldn't know who Steph Curry was. I could tell you he is a basketball player but I couldn't pick him out of a line-up.
Anime vibes movies? Oshii's films in general. His first Ghost in the Shell in particular.
Another contender from asia markets may be Hong Kong era John Woo action flicks. More than John Wick, you get more the melancholic doomed relationships. Hard Boiled is basically Woo's take on Miami Vice. Especially how you follow Tony Leung trying to navigate his conflicting roles as an undercover cop in the stylish gangster underworld without getting himself and those he loves killed (the precursor in my mind to the later Infernal Affairs series and Scorcese's remake). Seeing Tony speed down the highway in an open top sportscar to cool music and screaming out his frustrations on his boat home. Dreaming of moving to the polar regions because it's always light there (conveniently forgetting that half the year is in darkness as well)
Yeah, sure. Hard Boiled is known for its extensive action scenes. But I do feel it fits more than the John Wick films.
What about Indiana Jones?.... It does have glamour, takes place across multiple countries, only the immediate goal matters(at least lesser than the final goal).
Waking Life is american animated vibe movie.
Patrick please just answer the question- is The Big Lebowski a cousin of the vibe movie???? I think it would at the very least score highly on your rubric.
they could be adjacent at least, since VIBES movies are children of film noir, and the big lebowski is literally a film noir with an unexpected vibe. but that unexpected vibe is going to be very counter to patrick's definition of VIBES movies.
So.... does Revenge of the Fallen count as a "Vibes movie" then?
What I'm getting is that just calling these movies "Vibes Movies" was too vague a title.
ghost in the shell 2 is a great vibe movie
Is Succession a Vibes Show?
Per your implied request: Why didn’t you talk about Pathaan?
what a tone poem
I think you just mean... Spy movies. I do not understand how John Wick could POSSIBLY not count as a "vibe" movie. I know it's a silly made up criteria but I'm also feeling it's inconsistent to be honest. Love the videos though...
Yay!
3:17 they do have a point
Good stuff. Slightly underwhelmed that Inherent Vice didn't come up with any other comment and was out of this video.
For sure! I think it deserves a mention in the conversation for being so far into the "you are not meant to understand the plot" direction, but the generally meandering, unmomentous pace and the insincere tone probably disqualifies it in the end.
@@Reecer77 I find it somewhat paradoxical in the momentum aspect. It sort of starts very slow, but all the chaos, mystery and the detective story just creeps on you with momentum towards the end.. I think it scores high in glamour, loneliness. The momentum is not high, but it is sort of there. Spectacle is the hardest, it doesn't really set pieces but I feel the spectacle is the weirdness of those places and situations, all of the places he visit are weird and chaotic.
I am a MAJOR Michael Mann fan, but not everything he's done agrees with me. Blackhat definitely did not. I was one of the few who saw it theatrically, and lord, was I sorely disappointed. Hemsworth felt miscast, the plot was nothing what Mann was telling people it was about, and it felt very emotionally closed off and distant. The digital cinematography was the harshest style he had done yet, and I just overall was having none of it. If Mann wasn't involved the marketing never would've gotten me into the theatre.
Vice was a long 15 years journey of ups and downs, disliking it, misunderstanding it, appreciating it, and bouncing back and forth everywhere. It took a very thorough analysis, going deeply into examining the film with the theatrical and director's cuts of the film, listening to Mann's commentary, reading interviews, researching it deeply, and digging up every piece of awry production issues to finally get to really respecting and clicking with it all the way. Mann is the filmmaker that makes me want to be a filmmaker. The Insider may be his best film, but Heat is my all-time favorite film, full stop. So, I think we get each other on him being a master of VIBES and having complicated and intelligently stylish films that require some deeper exploration overall.
The Keep could be a VIBES movie, but it wouldn't hit the glamor end of things, despite the surreal, Manhunter-esque cinematography. The plot is a bit choppy because the studio cut a good hour of the story out, and Mann didn't get to fully make the film he intended to after the original visual effects artist passed away during filming. It's a complicated film that even the author of the original book hates. I don't particularly like it, but I understand why. There was a Region Free DVD in Australia that I grabbed, but it's apparently for rent on several VOD services, it seems.
Anyway, anytime you wanna talk more Michael Mann, I'll be glued to the screen while you do it! I watched the VIBES video twice, and it's just a stellar piece of craftsmanship. I haven't even seen Tenet, and you've got it stuck into my head now.
Im surprised people fixated so much on the criteria when its more of a vessel for you to talk about a few films that function in a similar way.
You forgot about Collateral! Both Michael Mann's best film and also Tom Cruise's best film!
RELEASE THE VIBES SCALE #MissionImPATsible
Perv Patrick confirmed. Welcome to the fold.
I know I'm coming at this like a year late (blame the YT algorithm for not surfacing Patrick sooner), but over and over these "does this count" "no that doesn't" seem to get knocked down because the suggestions are vibes movies in the .
In one of the early responses, Patrick talked about how _Miami Vice_ and _Tenet_ live in a certain genre, and defy the normal expectations of that genre. And it seems (looking at the rubric) that a lot of the stylistic expectations of the glamorous globetrotting LEO genre have gotten mixed into his definition.
Does _The Green Knight_ count? No; it's not a glamorous, globetrotting spy/police movie. Does _Tron: Legacy_ count? No; it's not a glamorous, globetrotting spy/police movie.
Rinse; repeat.
But if you try to pull that genre *out* of the definition, I think that there's a much more fundamental idea going on here, which the commenters are all getting at (vibing with?) but which Patrick keeps rejecting out of hand just because they're not vibes movies *in the particular genre that originally sparked his attention*.
Just a wild guess, Blackhat is going to count
Green Knight definitely doesn't belong in the vibes category given that it's a film focused almost entirely on character development and the personal journey.
Sure it doesn't have a very conventional narrative structure, and yes it's heavy on atmosphere, but each episode of the story is very purposeful in testing Gawain's character against one of the 5 chivalric virtues of becoming a knight, and so in that sense is a very traditional character study.
Patrick in this video: "come on guys, learn a little about sports!"
Patrick in his last video - literally has no clue about the second most popular sport in the entire world (cricket)
Okay but, Is the nice guys a vibes film? It doesn’t go all over the world, but it goes all over LA to a bunch of gorgeous and high end locations. Not one, but two of the main characters are lonely and miserable. And the plot is dense as hell. Also that atmosphere
But okay, the real question... do you think Neil is the kid?
Uncut Gems is a vibes movie. Not good vibes, but vibes nonetheless
As far as anime movies go, Patlabor: The Movie is the ultimate anime vibes movie. The umbrella plot is a mystery about robots going rogue and turning on humans, and is extremely convoluted, so a lot of scenes are just down-on-their-luck beat cops (who pilot giant robots) just hanging out and being bored in the sweltering summer heat. It's missing glamorous locales and rich people but it's like an even less plot-centric Ghost in the Shell (which makes sense because it was also directed by Mamoru Oshii).
42:24 I had the same question, but I think after Patrick’s explanation I think answer is a Transformers movie could be a great Vibes movie
Most of this video just people misunderstanding the point of the main video. It's a very specific type of movie. But may be Patrick's fault for calling them vibes movies.
I think the whole vibes thing is a way to make uninteresting self indulgent blockbusters by established directors seem better than they are. I totally get the fact that not everything has to be logical, a glance at art movies, surrealism, and abstract movies makes this all too clear, but these movies are poetic possibly both visually and story wise. They are usually touching upon something quite human. There’s nothing human about James Bond, it’s a symbol, it’s spectacle, it’s noise. It seems these vibes movies draws upon the worst of all its sources without an understanding of what makes these films popular. If I would want to enjoy something for the vibes or atmosphere I would pick a new wave film, or something by Ozu or basically any movie where images are more than dull gray mass and a constant barrage of dialogue and plot which (by your definition) is nonsensical in these movies. Tenet is the perfect example. Nolan tries to "experiment" on the blockbuster and is in my opinion failing, all the way from Dunkirk. But there is a constant need to reframe these experiments as a sucess instead of just saying: he mad a bad, or a boring movie. Everybody does at some point and it’s okey. The story of Tenet is nonsensical, philosophy and themes are vague or even nonexistent, characters flat, but still it’s good because locations and vibes? No. If this is media critic we can reframe every movie failure to a sucess. Miami Vice is the same way. Reframing things that are usually bad in a movie to something that is good. It’s okey to like movies that aren’t that great, it’s okey to try and argue that they are better than people give them credit for, but to try and say that there is some genius subversion at play or that they are some kind of misunderstood masterpiece is to me just totally dishonest. It’s totally fine to like these movies, but don’t try to do the old "you were all just too stupid to get it" that they tried to do with the Phantom Menace. Anyways, the bollywood episode was fantastic! This is just a critique, no harm meant. We all love movies and so on and so forth.
Some folks have spit roasted me over this haha, but after your other vibes movie vid, I started describing studio Ghibli movies as vibes movies. They're GREAT, they're BEAUTIFUL pieces of art, but they are in it for the vibes. Dig too deep into the plot of a Ghibli movie and it will fall apart like pretty colored sand, but the VIBES and the feelings evoked? Clear and immaculate.
Absolutely not. Studio Ghibli films usually have very very belivable worlds where every last detail feels coherent and lived in and the characters have very clear sympathetic goals and easy to understand motivations. Neither is the plot hard to comprehend or unimportant at any point. The only one that might be like that is Howl's Moving Castle. Although not at all a VIBES movie by Patrick's definition it seems as though it's meant to be enjoyed similarly to Tenet at least on a first viewing.
Sex scenes should only be in a movie if it's pertinent to the story or character development. Actually, that goes for most things in movies.
You and I clearly think of different things when we hear the word "VIBES", to me the Super Rich are the antithesis of Vibes.
Things I recommend firstly for the Vibes would be like Serial Experiments Lain or an Ikuhara Anime. But it seems like Anime closer to your criteria would be like Noir and Madlax which are also two of my favorites.
To clarify since I didn’t actually make this point before: these movies are usually about characters infiltrating the world of the super-rich (since, y’know, spies), but they’re not super rich themselves. So you get the appearance of luxury but not the comfort
@@patrickhwillems I guess Utena might count then.
@@patrickhwillems I'll also add the the Live Action Boogiepop and Others movie shares the quality of a Plot that is good but not very straight forward.
@@Kuudere-Kun utena is a galaxy brain pull that would probably score _really high_ on the scale now that patrick's released it
Sex scenes are fine as long as they serve the story somehow. The two sex scenes in "A History of Violence" are an important contrast and say a lot about the relationship. "Watchmen" uses a similiar contrast.
Most sex scenes in movies add little to the plot or characterization; they are gratuitous fan service. You don't need a sex scene to show two characters are passionately in love with each other.
P.S. Obligatory fanboy "Yay! Patrick read my comment!" comment.
Napoleon was a vibes movie.
I love vibe movies. They subvert, slow down, mix things up. Although the whole 'cross countries' thing is for a specific sub genre of vibe movies. So, yes, Westerns, dramas can all be vibe movies, but Tenet fires in for the James Bond style vibe movies. Only it isn't. Or while it is, it just fails in how to balance vibes movies. Yer see the Vibe movie needs to be engaging on different levels than the conventions of the genre. Internal when we expect external. Plot contrivence/non-importance in plot heavy genres. And this is where Tenet fails. It invests in plot while telling us it doesn't matter. It's not internal either. The characters are bland and our lead just reactionary/uninteresting. The 'concept' (which tenet thrives on) is...intellectually interesting but visually uninteresting no matter the philosophical underpinnings. Essentially the concept in action looks confused and film going backwards with other stuff in the frame going forward. It looks confused. I mean you can explain it in a n interesting way, but it is still visually confused and uninteresting. When you can see film going backwards here where and anywhere...so what? And this is where the vibe label can fall short. It can let films off the hook. Just feel it man. Yes, but watching film is active. You're doing too much. Just feel the vibe. But it has a story and I'm trying to work out what it is. You're missing the point. You don't get it. Feel it, don't understand it. But the dialogue is muffled. You're not meant to hear it. Just vibe with it. So, why not make a vibe movie and don't have the dialogue??? It's not that kind of movie...yadda yadda yadda. That's lazy both film making and criticism. Vibe movies can be great within genre film making. Tenet just isn't one of them.
WHY ARE THESE Q&A'S SO COMBATIVE