Why Did the Shower Tray Crack? How Was it Fixed?
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- Опубликовано: 28 дек 2015
- Roger is working on a shower room but not everything is going to plan.
#bathroom #fail #DIY
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Thanks for showing us the reality that jobs sometimes go wrong even in the most experienced hands. Makes us DIYers feel better about our own struggles.
Cheers Roger, a lot of people wouldn’t have shown that, but you so it as a great learning opportunity to share. Great content. Thanks.
Really appreciate your honesty and explanation of why tray cracked. Thank you
I find suction cups work well for fitting shower trays.
Problem with mortar is that it doesn't come back after compression. As you're tapping a tray like this down it can lift another area slightly. Tile adhesive will come back since it sticks to the tray, leaving no voids.
seen this happen before ,manufactuers make trays too thin for appearance reasons,ignoring durability .Roger made a first class job of the base,but it shows what we plumbers have to put up with.On site we always use a pair of suction cups,as we are fitting multiple trays on commercial jobs.Duravit shower trays come with selaphane stick on patches so your suction cups don't leave marks on the tray.Keep the videos coming Roger,used to enjoy your articles in the plumbing and heating magazine,we used to read it with me mates at college over 30 years ago.
This man is very hardworking . Respect!
Very unfortunate for that to happen. Another great, honest video.
I’ve found when using sand and cement - use feb in the mix to make the mix nice a buttery and get the mix something like level with plenty of undulations in to allow you to work the try level ( like you would a brick ) also pva the floor and the tray a few times . I’ve also used CT1 adhesive in liberal amounts and had success bedding them down. And also floor tile adhesive
Thanks for not just covering it up. it's a great tip and I know the pain of doing jobs only to be let down by something at the last leg. i see this was in 2015 so I'd say your over it by now
Ive fitted loads of trays, always made sure floor boards well fixed , primed and have used flexible tile adhesive... no fails after 18+ years
Re your comments about floor joists, I'm assuming it's not a ground floor shower? Would you use DPM under the whole room / on the chipboard or marine ply? noticed you didn't seem to have any down...
+Mat Smith
Yes it would be good. I used OSB3 because it is moisture resistant but this time I am going to apply a tanking primer as well.
Never understood this idea of fully supporting the tray on a bed of cement when the upstand kits available for these trays only support it in a few point locations. Totally nonsensical.
If you don't mind a bit of a step into the shower tray, not the sort of finish on a high end job
Some shower floors are supported by floor to floor grids,others including Delta are filled with foam for support.cement and or silicone caulk helps prevent weakness and noisy creaking sounds. Foam based shower floors are by my experience are trouble in progress. People who are heavy will compress and eventually shrink,settle,and crack.
I made a timber frame for my 1400 x800 tray..marine ply base and glued it down with tec 7 ..modern trays seem to need a lot of support
thanx for sharing
Hi Roger, excellent video thankyou. I noticed in the video you were attaching the Elements tile backer board straight onto the studs on the side wall of the shower, but for the shower back wall, you had first attached an Xtratherm layer onto the studs, before then attaching the tile backer board. Why the difference in approach? Is it because the shower back wall is an external wall and you needed extra insulation? I am in a situation where one shower wall is external and the other internal and I am wondering what to do about these differences. Many thanks, Jon
You are spot on Jon. I had a stud wall on the dormer but on the right-hand side I built a false wall out from the stud wall to give me the ceiling height. The Xtra Therm on the studs prevents a bit of cold bridging but the Elements board is also a very good insulator. The good thing is that the tiles are the same temperature as the room so there is less chance of condensation and mouldy grout. I put in as much insulation as I can because I hate paying heating bills.
Great videos. I'm just about to do our bathroom, and I was looking at just this kind of cheap ebay tray. Having second thoughts now. 👍
Good video. Do you have part 2?
Hi, this says to be continued at the end. I was just wondering if you ever did a part 2 to this video? I can't seem to find it if you did. Thanks.
Could it have broken when you tightened that trap? Just wondering it seems like the crack is in line with the drain?
Hi just doing my bathroom , taking your advice regarding elements board, onto a studded wall, then using nuance wallboards,, should these elements boards be rigid enough for the wallboards, and what manufacturer did you use, you said it was a uk company. Great video very helpful.
Is an abacus elements board, search for tile backer board, I use jakoboard personally but it's all the one. If your studs are 400mm centres you should be good, although I have tiled wider, but i wouldn't reccomend you do. Dont forget to use washers on the board, and seal everything with a tanking kit. Classi seal tanking kits are awesome, but whoever's made it it's all the same stuff really.... sorry if Im too late for ya.
Good effort mate, you were a bit unlucky with that one. Plumber for 25+ years and bedded lots of stone trays. I tend to use a slightly wetter mix and ridge the muck like a bricky would so the muck has somewhere to spread out. Think when you laid that tray down the muck underneath didn't spread and support the tray evenly. The chipboard didn't help you either, just drys the muck out. Try laying the long edge first also, best chance of keeping the muck even under the tray.. Better luck next time and keep up the great work, love your videos.
Ernesto Thanks. It was my first failure. I have dropped a tile and chipped one before but normally bedding them down is fine
Spot on mate soft wet weak cement and you want have a problem, no stupid expanding foam ct1 etc manufacturers recommend weak cement mix for a reason. Big dollops and let them spread out as you level it down.
@@SkillBuilder when you bed the tray you can also prime the floor with a neat SBR or primer stops the boards from sucking the moisture out of the mortar mix
Great video Roger , I feel your pain , I recently fitted my customer a mirror cabinet above the newly installed £900 wall hung basin unit and my magnetic pozi bit came loose out the battery drill and chipped the basin !!! Gutted . . I alway screw 6mm ply to chipboard floors before putting dollops of rapid set flexible adhesive down before laying tray on top .. 20 years fitting bathrooms no problems yet .🤞👍
Interesting to see another plumber's method of fitting a tray, I like a few of your techniques like the straps, I stopped bedding trays on sand & cement a few years ago in favour of floor tile adhesive, spread with a large (half round) notched trowel, I find it gets the tray very close to the floor, so much so most flooring materials then cover the gap completely. Appreciate the vid, Waste problem, hey that's the life of a plumber, my motto is "if it was easy everybody would be doing it" I quite often say the same thing, no good moaning about it, just get it done.
wall adhesive or floor? I know floor is a little bit spongy
why not check the material over before setting it, that shower pan had a small crack that opened up, or he put something heavy on top and broke it himself, we plumbers make mistakes, but you cant fool another plumber
hi how do i know if my thermostat shower will be enough pressure as all the water out of the taps are good apart from the bath taps
Love your tips. Find it helpful
We use plasterboard adhesive, but spread it like mortar rather than dot and dab it. That way you can level it once down. Always set extremely well, especially because it's either bedded on to 18mm ply or concrete. What is your opinion on using board adhesive? I really appreciate the tip on using the straps btw
Lol are you crazy, its not flexible I've seen 1 fail before when someone did that
@madjack mcmad that's the whole point. You want as little flexibility as possible. There's very little flex in a shower tray and the same with a floor if it is fixed down right. I'm sure the one you have seen that failed was down to either a poorly fixed sub floor or not a full bed of adhesive with voids underneath
On a timber floor on joists I always use plaster board adhesive, on a concrete floor I use sand and cement.
Great vid thanks mate
What a nightmare Rog, been there done that. I always try to persuade client to use Coram trays. They come with upstands so they can be sunk into a wall so it doesn't just rely on a sealant bead to stop water going down the sides of a tray. Also you don't have to fanny about with mortar bed and the trap is higher up. Unfortunately some people want a fancy looking shower rather than practicalities.
+Zed Man Yes I like the upstand. I don't know why I went away from it on this occasion. Tempted by a deal
Roger ......do you not think its better plying the wall first then apply the tile bacaboard via tile adhesive then screw it on ?????also good practice for hiding pipes and cables
Good movie. Awesome information!!
Always bed your trays down with a a slightly dry mix. Any high points just give the tray a slide from side to side and it should get to level. plus if you need to lift the tray to add any more cement or replace a damaged one then theres no mess. use the edge of your trowel to cut lines in the cement so when you give it a wiggle it has space to move and allow the tray to reach you level.
yep that is what I did and have done many times with no problem
Have you got a video fitting the flight tray
What a pain 😖 Interested to see the next part!
Hi Roger. As others have said, good of you to show stuff going wrong. Think I may have seen why. Some bedding mortar looks as if it trapped waste pipe preventing trap from lifting when you clamped down upper part of waste. That forced centre of tray down as you sumised. Two things follow if I am right (often not!) a) keep mortar bed away from waste pipe (!) and b) would it be better to let bed set before clamping waste traty outlet down? Really very, very useful channel and I have found some really helpful advice here. Bob.
Thanks Robert
I really do appreciate any perspective on this and you may be right but the mortar was sloppy and I think that the pipe may have been able to displace it but the problem with that tray is that the weakest bit is across the middle. The mortar shrunk as the water went out of it and if it shrunk more on the thick bit than the thin bit that would have created a tiny void at either end.
The bottom line, for me, is that if a process is that critical it doesn't belong in a plumber's world. We need it simple.
The Mira Flight tray I have now is in a different class.
@@SkillBuilder Never forget that a rich cement bed contracts as it sets and then dries. If the middle part of the tray is sitting on a thinner bed over a trap then the far edges will come away from the bed.
Having spent way more time fixing a toilet than I should have done, due to things going wrong, I can't tell you how muc this video made me feel a bit better. Good to know the pros sometimes have to take the whole flipping lot up and start again, from time to time!
+Mat Smith
More often than they would admit to. Mostly it is due to the kind of rubbish we have to fit these days and of course plumbers have leaks, some say they don't but they do.
+Skill Builder too true, I get customers buying the cheapest nastiest taps, showers, baths, WC's etcetera, which is poorly manufactured, it takes extra time and materials to then make them work, I have had a few call backs for cheap quality sanitary/brass ware which I then have to charge for as (from my point of view) if they'd bought quality it works out the box (9-10).
Don't even start with plastic threads 😡.
Interesting comment. I'm one of those customers (i.e. not a plumber or installer, just a bloke on the street) and I'm about to buy sanitaryware to fit my new bathroom. Any chance you could point me in the direction of what you'd class as decent quality stuff that won't need changing later? A few brand names will do! I'm thinking now of taps, shower trays, etc...
+Mat Smith yeah no problem, taps, shower valves and sanitary ware, I'd be looking at Mira, Bristan (easyfit range is very good), peglar, grohe, ideal standard, armitage shanks, the big brands are better quality, in my experience cheap brass/sanitary ware are worse quality.
Hope this helps.
where is part two, cant seem to find it :'(
Straightline Tiling Australia.Recommends waterproofing entire recess.paint on paloma membrain.
screed under shower base sand & cement mortar. Trial fit base into place (level) then remove.scratch out
5mm let it dry.next day glue into position with rubber based tile glue.let it set then waterproof wall floor union
Grease the threads on the drain, makes tightening easier & better.
i just bought a expensive stone resin slate effect low profile tray and its terrible . there is a bow in it which floods water onto floor . tiles were in and silicone too .... but its had to come out . ordered one with a good old fashioned edge round it now
Yep you are right,, that's me too if you do all you can and it fails then there's a problem with the product,, and I wouldn't use it again either ❤️👍great video great skills
Uch, such hassle! Thanks for the honest video, I hope you get it sorted. Could have been worse mind, could've tiled it all in!
+Llyr Jones
You are right better now than later and that is why I am not going to risk another of the same type.
+Skill Builder I dance the fandango on mine after the adhesive has set prior to tiling, to see if there's any movement, I'm sure you do too :-0.
Gutted for you. At the end of the video it says to be continued. Did you ever do the video where its finished?
Shim 4 corners to levels. Install a shower/bath rubber up-stand where tray meets wall. Foam completely, cover with newspaper, settle tray down. Any problems you can lift the tray out. Weight of tray and tiling keeps tray solid.
Lool
Hello mate, thanks for the video. What exact mix do u use for the tray bedding please (and do u add plasticiser or anything else)? thanks
A lean mix of 6 parts sand to 1 cement. If you put a bit of PVA in the mix is will hold it together and plasticise it. You should not make it too wet because it will shrink as it dries so a minimal amount of water and maybe a notched trowel so you can just push it down level. I usually level the mix off first so it is just about right before putting the tray down.
@@SkillBuilder Great - Thanks.
Hi
As you install shower tray to manufacturer's instructions was there any problem getting refund
Hi, did you seal the joints in the tile board? Thanks much 👏🏻
Hello Slash
The product is called Aquaseal. It is best to cover the joins with waterproof tape and seal it on the board with the Aquaseal. Have a look at our bathroom installation video.
@@SkillBuilder Thanks
Was the cement still soft?
Where is the continuation of this video? Link please?
Wow; The tray ends must have dropped quite a bit to cause a crack that wide. I've got that same style low profile tray ( centre drain hole adjacent to the access edge). Worse still, the access door is going to be a (heavy) 6mm glass sliding door, with a fixed panel one side of the drain, which means cyclic loading across the 'fault line' when the door is slid open / closed. And the tray bottom is recessed around the perimeter presumably to economise on resin at the edge rims, so can't just lay a level bed of mortar. So I watched this vid, hoping to find info on whether the mortar mix should be mixed with minimum water to reduce shrinkage, whether it should be notch trowelled to allow even bedding when there's no room to 'shimmy' it, etc,etc. I agree that thumping it with a mallet seems unlikely to work on an un-notched mortar bed, as well as risking cracking the tray, so I was thinking of using an old B&D sander with a foam pad to vibrate the tray not just level, but to help ensure it's fully suported over the whole footprint. Anyone got any suggestions on water quantity for the mix?
Love your work, mate. Why did you put the pan in after the wallboard? Isn't it pan first then tile substrate? If the water gets behind your tile won't it run down under the pan? What am I missing?
Hi Greg
I had to think about that for a minute because we call it a tray. The pan is the W.C bowl. No matter I understand your point now.
I used to do what you are suggesting but it puts two thicknesses on top of the tray and I then found I couldn't get a wall to wall shower screen in.
Then when I started working for Wedi and then Abacus I discovered that they run the backer board to the floor so there are no weak spots or voids where the tiles start. The tray (pan) is stuck to the backer board and the joint is filled with polymer sealant. Then I put the No More Leaks tape on the backer board and tray joint. It sticks so well you won't get it off so you have to make sure you do it right. Then I tile the wall and finally grout and silicone. I usually rake out the bottom line of grout so the silicone sits in the joint rather than just on the tile face.
The end resut is thaI never get leaks around the pan (tray).
@@SkillBuilder I see. (I have been in the US so long I have forgotten the English names for things). I use Wedi so I see what you mean. The way the board locks in with the tray and the sealant makes it waterproof. And the board you use has a waterproof core. Do you do a flood test? (Block the drain, fill the tray with water for 24hrs). I suppose I should look at your other vids to see. On a tray with no curb I use a scrap piece of Wedi and sealant to hold all the water in. I have noticed the water wicks up the cement layer on the Wedi, so can it make its way down behind the sealant?
I noticed with that tray it was completely flat on the bottom with none of those criss cross mouldings like on the mira flight that give the tray more strength we live and learn good vid
Is it sand-cement mortar on the ply?
I’ve seen a youtube DIY’er bed a shower tray using expanding foam. Any thoughts on this Roger? He seemed to know what he was doing…
I would say that anything can work but when you get trouble and try to make a claim you will find the manufacturers will, quite rightly, look at what the tray is bedded on. Resin cast trays are similar to very large paving slabs, they have no tensile strength so an even support is all that will stop them cracking. If you call out the technical guys to inspect a cracked tray they get out a small hole saw and drill all over the tray. When they look at the sample they expect to see an even bed under the tray. If they see a void or a material that has not been recommended they will walk away.
surely they could make trays in heavy flexible plastic so they won't crack?
I liked the Aquapanel glass fibre reinforced cement board. It needs good edge support but it’s solid stuff. Use tile adhesive to bed the joints.
I have used it many times but five sheets in the van weighs a lot and it is dusty to cut. When I am working in blocks of flats a lightweight board is much easier
Just bad luck. I have read quite a lot of the comments on here some good some not so good. I think you have just been unlucky. Manufacturers instructions must be followed if they say use a bed of sand and cement it doesnt matter whether or not you think silicone or any other material is better you must use what they recommend for the tray you are fitting. Not many Plumbers will ever agree with everything you do and techniques will always vary but Ioverall I think you have done a good job. When the fan started this time you were in the way thats all. Hope you didnt have too much trouble swopping the tray
Here in Australia they do the same thing
they use chipboard that’s treated and there’s also this blue stuff that goes on like paint and when it’s dry it’s a rubber membrane it’s basically liquid rubber and they paint that on the walls and push it into the corners with a bandage and I was wondering even though you’ve got the blackboard maybe blue membrane wouldn’t hurt over the top as well
we have that ProSeal and Aquaseal. It is a good idea,, no harm in two or three lines of defence
And for future maintenace access to trap?
Does having the hole in the centre line also make a weak point, is the corner waste a better idea.
At least it happened before you tiled the walls and fitted the screen. Lucky bloke!
Great video.
Can you bed insulation on the floor in the same way? - Want to stop my floating PIR from wobbling. :D
fairplay, great video very informative!!
Do you bed the Mira Flight trays on sand & cement or silicone?
I bed them on sand and cement but if the floor is really flat then silicone is fine. They are strong trays so I don't see any problems
I know you say use sand and cement because it doesn't stick to the tray and can move independently, but if it does slightly drop either end the tray will crack in the middle anyway !
Hi Roger, love watching your videos so informative and straight
to the point!
When you have moisture resistance plasterboard in bathroom, would you plaster over it and then tile?
+Muhammad Asim
Hi Muhammad
Thanks for the support. I would not plaster over it. Plaster doesn't stick so well to the moisture resistant stuff and it introduces a layer of degradable gypsum into the sandwich. Tile straight onto it, no need to prime.
Roger I could not get the level with sand and cement and after seeing this vlog and the cracking issue as my waste is in the same place, I used low yield foam to bed onto not the perfect thing I know however the base has been done for 2 months had various traffic no movement and no cracking. I think the foam maybe I am wrong gives a bit of movement. But like said its been down for 2 months and no issues.
Just an update the tray sat on low yield foam trick is still holding out (I know you have your views on this) the step in shower has had a lot of traffic and no cracks or leaks thanks to your tips on tiling, albeit was tiling onto blockwork your tips has stopped a possible horrid wet patch forming on the kitchen ceiling 🤣 also should of listned to you and not wasted so much time and money on push fit and compression waste to cut corners, should of and did go with solvent weld again this has held and no leaks, used solvent weld for my new basin install getting a bit of an expert now 😄 but gloves off now I watch all your vlogs and since my father passed away with I was 19 when I got my first home I did not have the dad of DIY back up to help me, now into my 50's I have learnt a lot and your vlogs and the plumbing chap who I can't mention has helped me a great deal. FFS I ripped out a bathroom and installed a step in shower (cause of joist issues) 1600x800 tray, installed the 2 part enclosure one bit sliding, tiled the whole bathroom, new basin and cabinet below, done the floor, pipework ect never soldered before, its because of you Roger and other trades that give me the confidence to do this, so KUDOS to you. The wifey now wants the toilet tiled as its to clean and clinical OMG what have I started.
Can you adhesive backer board if you haven’t got studs to fix to ??
Yes cement based tile adhesive is perfect but dot and dab will do
JT 40 by any chance? i had to replace 3 last year as they held water in the far corners?
+john sawers
No not JT, it came from a company called Cheap Suites, which makes you think they might be rubbish but they seem to have good reviews and to my surprise they are happy to replace the tray with no arguments. It could have just been a one off. The carriers took it off the pallet because they didn't have room on the wagon so it might have been propped up with a load on top of it. The trouble is I have lost confidence in it now so I am still going for the Mira.
Shift the joist and scarf if poss, not always easy is it :)
There could have been a inherent fault with the tray as you look to have done everything by the book (according to every manufacturers instructions I have read when installing large ceramic shower trays). I not sure what your mix was but its recommended that it's pretty weak. The problem I have seen often occurring with thin shower trays is the very thin supporting ceramic ring that holds the trap-its usually on 2mm or 3mm thick. Unless the waste area is covered with some protective ply during the works, it's very easily broken and the tray is a right off.
It was the tray and they offered a replacement but I had no faith in it.
Problem videos are the best
One issue that I noticed, and I see this a lot is that the protective film was left on during installation. It must be removed for tray inspection, there may have been a fault that could have been flagged up before dropping it into place. Also that's one of the many get out excuses a manufacturer or supplier may use against you when you complain. Also, while I'm on, its also worth knowing that if you were to ever get a glass shower panel break on you there should be no problem getting a replacement.. without being charged. The integrity of the glass cannot be guaranteed regardless of being QC'd to within an inch of it's life.
Could the tray have cracked due to tightening the drain onto the pipe below while the grout was still wet?
I've been watching hours of Skill Builder videos while stripping my old en-suite out back to the stud work ready for a full rebuild.
I have chipboard floor boards and it's close to level and solid. The tray manufacturer recommends footing the tray on a sheet of ply then bedding with sand/cement or cement based tile adhesive.
I'm intending on laying Elements board on the floor before tiling and my understanding was I could just put the tray on elements board rather than ply wood. Am I correct in that assumption or should I stick to using ply under the tray and Elements for the rest of the floor?
Elements under the tray as well means I can put the Abacus seal tape on all joints round the wall/floor edges which I really like the idea of.
Cheers
Simon
Hi Simon. I would put a sheet of ply down under the tray just so you comply. Give the ply a primer and then coat it with some ProSeal and then put the Elements board around the tray and seal the edges to the the tray. If you seal the joints in the Elements board and then use No More Leaks tape around the shower tray where it meets the wall you will be fine. I would stick the edge of the tray to the wall to seal it and stop it moving and then use the tape, then the tiles, then the silicone.
@@SkillBuilder
Thanks for reply, really appreciate the guidance.
Simon
Good to see a McAlpine product used. Never had issues with any of their kit.
good to know myra tray is good quality, i just had my shower replace 3 weeks ago and i notice the myra brand on my shower tray, dont know anything about it but i trust the plumber cause we use him in a different job before and its all good
thats why i make a bed of mortor 2.5" thick and Redguard it and the entire shower.
a one piece waterproof membrane from drain to tile cap is almost foolproof.
Sand cement doesn't really bond - flex tile adhesive is 10 x better - it shouldn't matter how thin tray is if supported equally underneath - only in putting it in that its a concern - sand cement gave way clearly as massive cut-out and height of mortar was a tad too high - people talk of expansion and floor settling etc but that's a rare case and isn't really a good approach to all trays - maybe if fitted in environment that changes temp dramatically - i sbr pva floor and tray then backbutter tray and trowel adhesive down on floor - silicone everything and if seal pops out just untighten as silicone is touching anyway! plasterboard if supported does fine - if waters getting through it screwed anyway! just tile and grout well
Dave H
The one thing you don't want is a bond. The whole idea of a weak mix is to reduce shrinkage and provide support that allows a slip layer. If you bond the tray to the timber and the timber moves the tray will crack. The tray cracked because it was badly made with the thin bit in the middle. Avoid a centre wasted. As for your advice on plasterboard you are wrong. It is not allowed under British Standards unless it is tanked.
Is there a next episode, I can't find it? Will you put the link here please, I need to see the finished look. Thank you .
Was that an electrical box just behind the tile board on the right? (as you view the video) Very crazy...
Not crazy. It's a macerator which is common in areas like a loft conversion/extension where the soil pipe is too far away. The electrics are sealed as if it is outside (IP rating) so nothing to worry about. Designed for the job.
I used to always Dredd fitting a bedded shower tray. Much preferred the adjustable leg type.
+B1cam
Yes I agree but now everyone wants the low profile wet room look without the hassle of tiles. Sometimes there is just no way of getting the waste out so you have to put the legs on.
+Skill Builder I know it's a bummer. Luckily for me I rarely do plumbing anymore. Mostly boiler repairs n maintenance some heating installation. Still, I enjoyed the video and very honest. Thanks.
Hardibacker and tile adhesive
At least he published the video to show us all what not to buy and what not to do.
I didn’t see that coming (despite the title) It was all going so well. I’ll take heart that even for the informed there always something to trip you up
Use thinset with a 3/4 notch trowel. That is the proper way to do this. Never use that sand cement ( mortar mix). It shrinks when it dries. Thinset does not. Mortar mix will also crumble over time with the stresses that the plywood puts it through with contraction and expansion from the moisture of the shower. Thinset is designed not to. The Thinset is also designed to hold tiles or in this case the pan level without collapsing. The Mortar mix will not. The failure is entirely due to the wrong materials being used and builder error. It has nothing at all to do with the pan design. But someone needs to take the blame right?
I use tile adhesive also for another reason. I find that tile adhesive compress's easier when pushing the tray level and into position. Sand cement just does not seem to compress when pushing the tray down. I also tend to screw down some 6mm Backer Board under where the tray is being fitted. That's my tuppence worth!
Just do it based on the company recommendations.
Agree with you to a point, it's a case of using the right mortar for the job
Agreed, but the crack may have occurred primarily because he tightened the waste down too tightly. Of course, he may have trodden on it before the mortar had set, impossible to tell.
looked like he tightened it up as the mortar was setting, probably the issue along with over tightening
I think I would have set cement dabs, set the tray in and then lifted (I liked your idea of using old packing straps) it back out to see the effect on the dabs. If all looks Ok let it dry off. I prefer to use high modulus silicone towards the edges to bed shower trays in and leave a couple of bags of plaster in the middle of of the tray while it goes off (same idea as half filling a bath with water before silicon sealing the edges). The silicon offers a spread of support and avoids any point loads but offers a little bit of give. I have not seen any rigid shower trays crack by being held high at the edges. The cracking problems occur where the middle of the tray is held higher than the edge support
Joseph
Good ideas especially to avoid shrinkage problems . I did put a couple of pack of tiles on it to make sure it stayed but I think it was weak. The Mira Flight is way better
Skill Builder Mira is a bit pricier but the quality always provides that piece of mind. Anyway I enjoyed the fact that you showed a 'failure' as we have all had them and that's when you learn the most. Experience has taught me to wary of anything rigid and to always provide a bit of breathing room for movement. My latest disaster was installing a Bette enamelled steel bath. The feet assemblies consisted of two frames one at each end and secured by threaded hooks that located to metal loops welded to the bath underside. The loops were a bit tight to the bath with not enough ready clearance preventing the insertion of the hooks and so a levered them out a bit with a twist of screw driver. When I flipped the bath over I found that the enamel had blistered off where I had applied force with the screwdriver tip. Not Bette's fault but a simple result of me doing something quickly without thought for potential consequences. You live and learn and I'll not do that again.
I have always been concerned about that problem with the feet on enamel. If the steel is distorted by the slightest pressure the enamel much flake.
bummer. ! ..you learned from it and we are warned.
You learned... and we earned 👍
Tray from Victoria Plumbing?? Had an identical issue. Client bought the tray cause it was cheap and the right size for what they needed. Fitted the tray and next day noticed the crack...guess who had to buy the replacement?!? I'm like you, the cheap trays are just bad and best avoided.
Thanks Nathan.
My rule is that is fhe customer supplies the materials they take the hit.
I wouldn't touch Victoria or Bath Store. If that is what the customer wants they can find another plumber
Great actitude
We had a shower fitted by "professional" plumbers and 3 - 4 years later the tray cracked. On inspection, while deciding whether to have a go at replacing the tray ourselves, found the main central support of the riser kit had been left hanging in mid air instead of fully unscrewed to support the tray. 5 year guarantee on tray invalidated by bad installation. Plumbers long gone. Moral of the story: sometimes the "professionals" are in a rush / cutting corners to get the job done whereas if you're willing to do it yourself you might take more time and care to get everything right.
It is a disgrace to see that kind of thing. There is nothing hard about getting that middle leg screwed down. It is pure laziness and contempt for the customer. I wish these people could understand the misery they cause. You were good enough to give him the work and he shafted you.
Thats horrid, I am a DIY chappy and due to the waste pipe level being to high into the soil stack had to build my own higher riser using plywood ect, due to height had to fix battens to the underside of the plywood base as the legs were not long enough to reach the floor, but now every leg base I could get at was tight to the floor and screwed down were I could, took me ages to do due to space the Mrs moaned taking to long could not level on sand and cement so used low yield foam got level just right and 2-3 months on no cracking and its solid. hope got it sorted.
@@paullefur6213 I'm sure it's time well spent, should last you a long time and you have the satisfaction of having done it properly.
Hi Roger. I drilled a hole into to top side of a tray like this to screw a glass holder. it hasn't caused any issues but I want to fill it, do you recommend any product?
Any hybrid polymer will do the trick, CT1 or HB42 or OB1
@@SkillBuilder great thanks
Why is it better?? Show us pls
oh blimey, I am just about to fit a similar type shower tray, 1300mm wide, but I have bought the leg kit to make life easy for the waste. I shall now be very careful with it.. Great channel nice to see a Brit posting videos...
+Cottage workshop
If you have the leg kit the chances are it is better than this acrylic capped concrete. What is the make of the tray?
I bought it online, its a classic or elements shower tray from the MX Group. Its an acrylic capped resin tray and has positions marked in the resin for each leg. I also need to transport it 500 miles in my car so I shall be careful with that too, i could not buy a 1300mm wide tray in France.
+Cottage workshop
I think it should be OK especially if it is Elements. The tray I used was a lot more like a concrete base.
I'll let you know how it goes..... thanks a lot for your comments
WHERE IS PART 2!!
All that work about putting the concrete in perfect that's a shame. I use a stuff here called structolite. It's similar to plaster of Paris very soft to work with and I just put piles of it all over the place under the shower base I'm putting in then I press the base down, to a level position, I walk away for a day let the structolite setup. Thankfully I never had any problems like you did. I saw your video I think they should definitely stand behind their product give you your money back or the next pan free, definitely tell you why the one you put in broke
where's part 2?
Where's part 2?
My showers sitting on a hardboard roughly 18mm ish, is this a common way to install them? I'm looking to put a new one in is it worth keeping this method
I would put it on plywood and then a bed of adhesive or cement if required.
@@SkillBuilder What thickness of ply would you recommend?
hi Roger,
just recently found your channel, I think it's brilliant, keep up the good work and it's always interesting to see the methods and hear the opinions of others in the trade.
keep it up :)
Thanks Ryan. I am glad you like what we are doing. I need to get the word out there and anything you can do to help will be appreciated. I particularly like the input from other tradesmen/women. The comments are the best part because,, like you say, it is good to see other ways of doing things. Every day is a school day.
I shall defiantly be recommending you to the guys I work with too look at your channel.
particular enjoyed the three part 18v drill tests. Do you have any other tool tests putting makes against each other in the near future planned :)
we are looking at doing a track saw test and a multi tool Fein Versus Bosch. They are quite hard to set up but seem to get the views and upset a few people.
I look forward to that video Roger, have you used and if you have what's your view on the range of power tools that stanley fatmax offer? Just curious :)
Stanley bought themselves a 51% share in Black and Decker which owns the DeWalt brand so we now have DeWalt hand tools and Stanley power tools. Are these just rebadged to appeal to the brand loyal consumers? I have asked this question at DeWalt and it is met with sheepish grins. What I can't work out is where Stanley power tools sit in terms of quality. Are they closer to B&D or DeWalt.