Oof, my ADHD symptoms hit especially hard today, I'm all over the freaken place. Anyway, the plan is to record the reaction for the finale live with my community discord - same format as usual, but I'll stream the actual cartoon so people can see it in the server, which might be a nicer viewing experience. Plus I'll do some Q&A at the end. If I have remembered to come back and edit this comment, the link should be right here: discord.com/invite/7SEhaMKm
You might wanna rephrase this comment cause idk how the goofy copyright laws are but I don't think you can stream the actual episode in discord. That's surely a violation of something and you could get in trouble.
Skyen during the Pilot: "Yeah I don't think I'll like those Egg things" Skyen in Episode 7: *Hardest laugh through the entire series originating from the egg bois*
I think Alastor was sent by someone who wants to manipulate Charlie to become antagonistic with Heaven. It seems like he's there to protect and mentor her to be more like him. Hence why Lucifer's presence is putting a wrench in his plans. It COULD be Lilith who sent him, or maybe it's someone we haven't seen yet. Cannibal Town is based on classic musicals like "The Music Man" and "Hello, Dolly", which are set during the good ol days of around 1900. Rosie herself is based on Dolly Levi. Disney's Main Street, USA is supposed to evoke the same feeling of nostalgia.
The stag themes in Alastor's design are a really long winded discussion, but to surmise in a way that doesn't spoil things or use info outside of the actual show canon: Sinners get a form that reflects either the way they died or an aspect of themselves that is supposedly meant to haunt them, basically their own appearance is meant to be a form of torture for them, as every sinner has something about their form in hell that they despise. Alastor being a deer reflects the way he died. But more importantly it presents him as "prey". Which, for a character like Alastor, is obviously the last thing he'd want to be seen as. HE HATES THAT HE IS A DEER. Alastor is someone that desperately tries to hide his weaknesses and appear strong and composed. ("a smile is a valuable tool") A stag is often a symbol of strength and power, but a stag is still prey nonetheless. We see Alastor eating a deer carcass in his room, where we also see a mantle with deer antlers. So the stag symbolisms are really more of a representation of Alastor's inner conflict with himself. (He is a deer consuming and hunting other deer, desperately trying to distinguish himself as predator rather than prey through that action.)
@@xLarsZocktx I don't think that's all species, and Angel is modeled after a jumping spider more specifically. For him, I think he'd hate that he's a spider because his family ended up being spiders too (for meta lore reasons).
Something I love about Alastor and Rosie's partnership is that they compliment each other. You mentioned that when Alastor brings someone to Rosie, she understands it's beneficial to follow along with his act because they've manipulated people together before and I think you're right. Where most people know Alastor's a Danger and a Problem, if he can get in just enough to get them to Rosie, Rosie's ability to be charismatic without being outright creepy gets them over the finish line. Rosie doesn't seem to have a ton of actual powers, she never even considers joining her people in battle. She's set up like a politician, the mayor of the town everyone likes who represents them to the other overlords. She has political power and territory. Alastor is the opposite, bloody and powerful but he doesn't seem to actually hold territory, he only has souls and his broadcast. So in that way they can each do what the other can't.
Ooh, very true. Together, Rosie gets to be the sweetheart who MIGHT be too dangerous to cross, while Alastor gets to be the terror whose affability MIGHT be genuine. If this lark with Charlie really was improvised (or even if Al gave Rosie a heads-up, which wouldn't surprise me), they're definitely practiced at it. Bringing in Charlie while she's an off-balance mess would have made Alastor look a bit like a fool, unless the goal was to give "Auntie Rosie" a way in, too. The whole situation played to their strengths perfectly. Rosie also seems to be a bit of an information broker, which compliments a radio show far too well. I will never not love this show's ability to write characters and then play them off of each other.
Rosie doesn't have dialogue but she is shown, both in the show and the pilot. She sits next to Alastor during the Overlord meeting and she crosses out her business partners name at the start of the Pilot where we are shown the aftermath of the extermination
Fun little detail, but Charlie has hooves! You can see them in the scene where she's sulking in her room. Alastor is also shown to have hooves in official artwork.
One thing I like about Alastor dangling the info in front of Charlie this late in the game is that the reasons are multiple. Firstly, he might not have been sure whether or not Hell's royalty knew about the angel being killable. Charlie saying "an invincible army" confirmed that his information had worth to her. Secondly, at that point there is no time for Charlie to look for the information by herself. Had Alastor tried to sell the information a few months before, Charlie would have had time to search for this information by herself. The hotel residents would likely have talked about it between themselves and Frank would inevitably have given the solution lile he just did in this episode. But there isn't much time left and Charlie can't start to look for it now. And lastly, the reason you mentioned: Charlie is at rock bottom, and that makes her easier to manipulate. Alastor doesn't just leverage the information at the right emotional time, he leverages it when he knows it has worth, and when it's too late to find it another way. He uses the urgency of the situation to increase the value of what he offers so he can ask for more, an urgency that also pushes her to make a reckless decision.
Agreed. It also gives him an opportunity for lovebombing. He pushes her into a deal she'll regret, complete with low blows she'd be angry about once she thinks about it... So, he immediately helps far beyond giving info, by bringing her to someone both friendly and helpful, with whom he can demonstrate his own ability to be friendly and helpful. Nevermind that Rosie is an Overlord comfortable with having Alastor as a friend; clearly it just means that Al has a softer side he's finally showing... and it just happened to come out while he swings Charlie from emotional low to high. Charlie, sweetheart that she is, is going to remember Al handing her the microphone, his wonderful friend helping her through her relationship, and the parade they helped her lead. She'll remember a place in Hell where her singing worked, and who knew to bring her there. She's going to believe that maybe Al does care, beyond his own goals, and that maybe someday she can be his friend like Rosie is. Maybe they already are, and he's someone she really can rely on. Maybe he does care a bit, since he visibly prefers women and Charlie has a proven ability to wiggle into people's hearts. Alastor's still mainly looking out for Alastor, though, and Charlie's gonna have to re-learn that the hard way.
I agree with your statement about Niffty. On one side I think "maybe they are throwing us a curve ball and Niffty is actually a very powerful demon. Maybe even the one who controls Alistor." On the other side I want her to just be the funny, creepy little goofball she is. Just doing her thing without any explanation or deeper motives.
Despite ADHD, I appreciated the tangent about being generous toward subtext when you like a product vs being critical for something you don't like. Whenever I try to discuss the highs and lows of the Star Wars sequel trilogy I'm often met with the most literal interpretation of the text and "cinema sins" nitpicking. It's a very frustrating mentality with which to discuss anything and has seemingly pervaded all corners of "nerd culture".
I really love the little gesture of Alistor offering Charlie his microphone. We don't know exactly whats the deal with it, but I guess it is something important to him. So him giving it to Charlie makes me think, that he does in fact care about her more than he shows. Maybe his line in episode 5 about him caring about her like a daughter had a little bit of truth in it and wasn't only to provoke Lucifer. Or maybe it's just another trick from him to influence her.
Oh, I am 100% with you, Skyen. Carmilla with her hair down is simply gorgeous. Breathtaking. A vision. She ate and left no crumbs. And I also absolutely agree on the whole utilisation of musical numbers in Hazbin to better tell the story in a shorter timeframe. Of course I deeply wish they had been given more episodes to work with. There are so many shows nowadays, especially animated shows, that just don't get enough time to tell the beautiful stories they want to tell. So I'm also curious to see what and how much you realistically expect the show to tie up in the season finale. Quite a few things obviously won't be because 1) there isn't the time but also 2) there still needs to be things to do and explore and flesh out in season 2. Like, from a storytelling perspective it wouldn't make sense to resolve everything you set up in season 1 when you know you have a season 2, right? But is it gonna be seen as a flaw that they set things up to continue into and be a bigger part of a second season? We'll see!
Aroace Alastor makes me way happier than I thought he would 😂 Sure he's a villainous cannibal but he's badass, fascinating, personality-full, and an utter mood when having to hear relationship drama.
Writing my personal perspective before I watch, it may be childish but I want to see if I'm not the only person who thought that way: Episode 7 kinda solidified Carmilla as the biggest collateral damage of the show's short length. Her only character moments by the second to last episode are three songs: - One where she gets flattened on her own turf in a shouting match against a character that probably had a whopping ten lines of dialogue before that - One that affirms her love for her daughters we barely met - One dedicated to teaching the character who did everything for love that she sould do things for love, actually. She *feels* like she should be cool- but she doesn't really get to do anything substantial or progress in a way that feels earned
I read "out for love" as her saying "you need to fight to protect people, right now you seem just as angry at Heaven and vengeful. Redirect the rage." Vaggie has *always* been a wrathful person in the show so it lines up.
Oof, charlie, language. "You harm no one" is not the same as "no one is harmed." And Alastor was originally a deer in the Zootopia comic she pulled some of these characters from. She is aware of the wendigo themes and hasn't shied from the overlap as he developed, but alastor is an oooooold OC. Voodoo, pindolls, eldritch, Princess and the Frog's Dr. Facilier, blood, and static are her stated themes/inspirations. With Dr Facilier being an recent one, as she made Alastor long before that movie existed. Though that does make it funnier that Husk is under his thumb!
@@3BSkyen Vaggie Motha and her new wings. Similar things with wings has happened in life action Lucifer serial when angel come true some mental "redemption". Razzle and Dazzle are like Keekey they are toys Lucifer bring to life. Rosie's talk reminds me of Franklin from Pilot episode who was moust likely her friend maybe even.
Yeah... this deal is vague but.. IF she can leverage the fact that allowing preventable harm is the same as causing it... this could be easy to wiggle out of.
I think NOT focusing on Charlie and Vaggie together was fine. You pointed out why, Charlie is a forgiving person. Once she was out of the crisis and realized it wasn’t a trust issue but a self-loathing issue... forgiveness was easy. You actually see in the first scene in Rossie's boutique, charlie was already picking out that souvenir for vaggie. The betrayl only hurt because of the timing and who revealed it.
Ehhh, I feel them getting over her lying this quickly is one of the biggest issues with the shortening of the show. The only time a major character beat felt severly underdeveloped imo.
I know ive seen other people mention it too but i like this style of watching because it allows the ability to watch the whole thing through without needing to be cut up or altered for copyright. I dont find it inconvenient
I remember when we were watching these live, we kept being shocked whenever a character would say how much time they had left before the new extermination event. We had to stop and go, "Oh I guess 3 months passed since the last episode". I feel like this season could easily have twice as many episodes and not drag at all. I think the creator has been quoted that the next season's plot will likely be less complicated so hopefully the short season format won't feel so cramped.
Another video essay I watched pointed out that Rosie's basis is similar in historical reference to Alastor's "radio demon". Rosie is a reference to the old newspaper editorials, commonly referred to as "Ask Rosie" columns.
Everyone talks about how powerful you need to be to have Alastor on a leash, but isn't the whole point of a soul deal that you can control the other person... regardless? If, for example, Alastor sold his soul for a jelly doughnut to a random demon on the street, then that person would have him on a leash, regardless of how much more powerful Alastor is. If you could just forcefully take your soul back from a weaker demon it would negate the whole point of the significance of such a deal.
I guess no one just expects Alastor to have consciously given his soul for a deal. I personally think he was probably backed in a corner to accept a deal too
I think it would depend on the contract and how it was worded? if it specifies physically attacking the debt owner is forbidden. I can see the "you harm no one" in Charlie's deal being twisted into she not being allowed to use brute force against Alastor for example
15:48 Predicting the bit is always the best. Not only is the joke itself funny, but the setup makes you realize how long the joke was planned 41:32 Camaro Carfight really needs more solo development episodes. Here's to hoping that season 2 is longer 46:03 Holy shit i never noticed 57:08 One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us 1:04:23 Skyen realizes that he got from "This ladie is very pretty" to "Media literacy is important" in the span of a couple minutes. Dont worry, i gorgot thats how that started
Just to confirm, Alastor is from New Orleans, Louisiana which contributes heavily to the hinted Voodoo theme Alastor has on occasion. 52:44 It's not a direct disney parody, but it is like the Disney America street. It more specifically is referencing musicals that take place in this late 1800s-early 1900s time period as well like Hello Dolly and The Music Man.
Aren't Rosie and Alastor just the *perfect* (surrogate) mom and dad figures? Charlie really needs (wants) that support right now, too, how convenient! :) Also, yes, the setting of cannibal town is based on classical broadway/old Hollywood/disneyland/theme park depictions of turn of the century Americana. Which is fake on fake on fake. Its pageantry of the gilded age. It looks like what we wish it was but is very rotten under that perfect facade.
As a DnD Player, the deal Charlie made made me so nervous, it reminds me of Fey Bargains. At first it doesn't seem so bad, since it's "just a favour" and she has the condition to not hurt anyone, but the main point is "at the time of his choosing". These are the kind dangerous deals you definitively should avoid, since the "you owe me one" can come back to bite you at the worst time and when you nearly forget about them. Also places symbolically Alastor over Charlie, even if in-canon she shoud be more powerful than him. As for Alastors desgin, you have 4 main aspects: - voodoo (and/or hoodoo since that is appearently something seperate?) which comes from his half-creole background appearing in his full-demon form, the stitches and the symbols in the background. Also ties in nicely with his theme of "control" - radio elements in his eyes, his main power - deer elements which come from his way he died as many of the other comments have pointed out (close ups have also revealed the X on his forehead where he was shot). he has hooves and antlers, tho they could also come from the - wendigo elements, with him being a cannibal he has the typical teeth like the others but also wendigos are sometimes associated with deer imagery, tho the other cannibals lack them
funny enough rosie has been named before this but so subtly no one would notice unless you're already deeply immersed in the fandom. in the pilot episode's beginning she is crossing out a name on a sign because she killed her business partner.
22:50 This expression caught my attention too! "This is the attitude of a king or an emperor" YES! Aaaah, I don't want our sweet Charlie to go full evil but it'd be so good if slowly, she became more and more commanding and assertive when needed. Also... she looks so good, lol. More of this please. 24:54 "A little more of mother." Yeah, she's mother alright. (Okay I'll stop).
Alastor might have handed over more in that deal than you realise. His side of the deal is "I'll tell you what I know." It wasn't "I'll tell you what I know about killing angels." There doesn't seem to be any clauses or stipulations, even weak ones, on what Alastor now has to tell Charlie. If she realises (assuming she hasn't already) she might be able to force him to answer, or threaten to force him to answer. Assuming that this contract works on 'exact words' principles, and the way Alastor quickly changed the terms from "One tiny tiny little favour between friends" to "One favoiur at a time of my chosing where you harm no one." I'm guessing it is.
I really hope your idea of how the deal works is how it actually is. It would be a great moment of Alastor being too confident and trying to get the deal done quickly
@@XragebootsX Alternatively, and even more deviously, Alastor knows a very important secret that he wants to share, but can't voluntarily due to an existing contract - but if he can get Charlie to ask him one very specific question...
Since you picked up on how Alastor manipulated Charlie into making the deal, there’s a neat little element to his negging before her first failed pitch to the cannibals. He might be trying to get her to mess up on purpose so Rosie can get in and do the same thing he’s doing. That might be his real gift to her: an in with Charlie.
59:45 - 1:04:25 I feel this rant so much. The "enlightened anti-intellectualism" when it comes to media literacy annoys me to no end. I really don't know if it has gotten worse or has always been like this, but it certainly gets to me more as time goes on. Like even discussing Hazbin Hotel, I got in a brief online argument (I know, first mistake) with multiple people trying to convince them that in episode 3, when Zestial is enquiring to Alastor about where he has been and mentions that "some have spread wild tales of you falling to holy arms", he means both that some had speculated he died to an executioner's blade, as well as hinting he suspects Alastor has become involved with heaven somehow (coming to basically the same conclusions you did). I could not get past people insisting "no he just meant that he thought Alastor was killed, arms is just an old-timey word for weapons" (which also as an aside...how is "arms" at all an old timey word?). Also, as a fellow queer, I know exactly what you were going to talk about with left-wing media literacy without you even having to elaborate 💀. *All that being said* , I actually do think that in relation to the discussion at 1:09:10 , the reoccurring eyes motif is not much more than the show designer's own aesthetic inclinations. The fact they are basically everywhere without much of a pattern or consistency seems to indicate this to me. Contrast that instead with the intentionality with which eye symbolism is used in something like Bloodborne and the difference seems pretty clear. However, I don't think that means that the eye symbolism carries absolutely no meaning in Hazbin Hotel; it seems likely to me they are meant to invoke the imagery of "biblically accurate angels" as you talked about last episode, and that does carry a lot of associated connotations. The reason we find the image of "biblically accurate angels" compelling is that they subvert the depictions of angels being basically humans with wings and turn them into something entirely inhuman; inhuman in a way that's basically 'above' humanity, the extra eyes invoking a feeling of omniscience and divine judgment, privy to the objective laws of the universe no human soul can hope to understand. I think that that connotation is what drew the show runners to use them in the first place, both in Heaven and Hell, that there is always a sense of some unknowable and unquestionable 'judgment' that the characters are fighting back against through the course of the story. Also, breaking from the explicit text (I know, death of author ect ect), Medrano has said that in the world of Hazbin Hotel, when mortal souls are destroyed, they basically disperse into the environment and become part of the composition of Hell itself. In this case, eyes being used to indicate the manifestation of this effect probably relates to the idea of eyes being "a window to the soul".
Honestly they missed the opportunity to introduce Rosie better during the overlord meeting. She was in that btw, just didn't say anything(and didn't snitch on the Egg Boy when she saw him). Something simple as Alastor moving her chair out so she can sit (and then she gives the creepy grin to the Egg Boy and share a sweet smile with Alastor like in the actual episode) and/or she invites him over for Finger food and he takes a rain check on it (and it doubles as a joke when u realize she meant actual fingers, in this episode) when they get kicked out(or before the meeting idk). Didn't have to be anything big, but just to better establish her connection with Alastor, make people curious. Like a simple: "Oh Alastor so good to see you again! You should come over for some finger food, we just got some new samples!" "Ah sorry my dear, but I must take a rain check on that for now. Places to be, deals to make, all that jazz, but good to see you too darling" "Of course you do, but I'll hold you to it, dear~" And have him wave goodbye over his shoulder as he leaves or sits down himself. That short. Though I've no idea what should have been cut to make room for that. I just love Rosie, she needed more time somehow
One thing that I'm surprised you haven't mentioned yet is the colour-difference between Alastor as a character and the powers that he uses. While he himself is entirely dressed in red, hell and all, everytime he uses his powers it's green light/symbols and black tentacles/creatures. That's also interesting to note considering that the strings that appear when he makes the deal with Charlie, the strings that appear to pull apart his lips and force his smile, are also green. I'm thinking that he might just be borrowing the power of whatever is controlling him (or has made a deal specifically for this power). And green/black doesn't read as Lilith to me personally.
I think this show did the best it could with the limits put on it, but it would DEFINITELY have benefitted from more time and episodes. I didn't really realize just how RUSHED it felt until I started watching reactions to it It also relied HEAVILY on its audience having a decent level of media literacy -there's so much implied, (EDIT) namely the fact that this season takes place over a six (6) month period, since Adam said in the first episode that they were moving the extermination up. And last episode was set ~5 months after that, so there's a LOT going on in the background that we aren't seeing because of the time constraints and compression
Rosie is actually a small cameo in the pilot to. it is implied that she murdered or caused the death of her partner (possibly both business and personal) Franklin during the last extermination which is now why she is the sole proprietor of Rosie's which used to be Franklin and Rosies.
OK I WAS JUST GONNA WATCH THIS AND NOT COMMENT BC I DONT WANT TO SPEND 2 HOURS WATCHING BUT- 25:46 Skyen losing it, his laugh is contagious and 26:28 Skyen being haunted by hazbin tiktok once again 29:17 HE'S STILL LAUGHING ABOUT IT HELP 49:03 they're my favourites but YES 50:54 not ominous at all 57:11 looking at you like that (same) 58:38 Do It For Her from Steven Universe my beloved 1:04:23 I... I have no idea
Relating to your end tangent, it's something I noticed in Power scaling communities as well and it's so upsetting. It surprised me at first, thought it would be a type of exercise were looking into interpretation and not taking all litteraly would make sense
The voodoo thing on Alastor's design is mostly based around who he was as a human! The deer thing too, but is separated. Remember sinners designs are their souls! They're all based around who they were when alive and what they did! Idk how much to say but basically he used to use a deer hunting ground to bury his victims, and died getting shot in the head when a hunter mistook him for a deer
@nectarinn3 it's one of the issues of the show that they don't explain that connection. But based on the sister series Helluva Boss, sinners' hell designs are based on who they were when they were alive. I wish it was elaborated on but I'd almost bet Husk has something to do with cats but it wasn't explained (and probably was thought up after his design to "justify" it)
20:00 I think the biggest issue with the voodoo (and deer) theming for Alastor is that we dont have any context for why those elements are in his design. The radio elements make full sense, and they're given context with him having been a 1920s radio host in life, but neither the pilot nor this first season ever touch on the other 2/3 of him. Is him using the demonized pop culture elements of voodoo problematic? On the face of it, maybe yes, but I don't think I can concretely say until more info is given.
No in show context at least. But the lore Viv made for him does clear it up a little. He's a mixed-Creole man who was born in (if I remember correctly) Louisiana. He probably learned Voodoo from his mother (it's been stated he was a mama's boy so I could see him learning it from her). He was a radio host and serial killer in life, who died one day when he was hiding a body and a hunter mistook him for a deer, hence his whole theme. (The little red x you can see on his forehead sometimes is where he got shot)
I feel her complicating factor is the fact she's a cannibal ngl. I think she doesn't need to be evil, she's a cannibal, that's enough. Also she's hellborn, not a sinner iirc. So she might just genuinely be like this
Just to clarify, Rosie being a Hellborn was some old canon thrown around by an artist who no longer works at Spindle horse. She's a sinner through and through now. You can research it. Too be fair though, hellaverse lore is super murky and mostly speculation or baseless statements until proven in the actual shows
Rosie showed up for about 10 seconds in the pilot episode, and it was implied she used the extermination as cover to murder one of her buisiness partners. You can see her in the opening song, and refrenced again when the newsreader lady mentions that some guy never showed up for his "cannibal cooking show".
I do hope the next season does the pacing better. With Hazbin's sister show, Helluva boss (genuinely impressive it was developed at the same time, more or less, as hazbin), there are evident pacing issues since the second episode. It also uses the 8 episode format (8 episodes in the first season, and 7 currently in the second season, with 7/8 episodes for 2024 iirc), so i dont know if the second season of hazbin hotel will differ from what the team is already doing. Being completely fair, Helluva's format is more episodic, with a wide story throughout each episode. It seems to me one of the weak points of Vivienne's writing, she can do some really hitting moments, but they are undercut by being underdeveloped or rushed. With Helluva, it may be because it is entirely funded by merch sales basically, so they may not have room for more episodes, and hazbin's case might've been a bad coincidence (as you say, with the team not knowing how much they'd get to develop the plot) Just hoping they give the show the episodes it needs next time
21:26 there's a popular fan theory that Alistor dried because he was mistaken for a deer and was shot and thats why theres sometimes an X on his forehead
@@maromania7Yeah, but they've also said that not everything is canon anymore. There's been some changes, partially because of having to rewrite part of the season, or they just decided they want to go in a different direction. As far as I know Viv hasn't clarified what's stayed canon, and that's probably because the show may go in a different direction at some point down the line on certain things.
The voodoo with Alistor gave me reason to not have him as my favourite character. The voodoo has been roundly criticised, since it not only originally displayed real symbols, but used them in an entirely wrong context. Unfortunately, popular media hasn't been good at conveying that Voodoo is a real world religion, to the point that many people have been shocked at the pushback. The wendigo thing is coincidental, but there has been no official correction sent out to the fandom. He's still a fun character, and I imagine a favourite of the writers simce he got some of the best scenes in the whole season.
Rosie was inspired by Barbara Streisand in Hello, Dolly. I hope they add so much incidental quirks to Nifty that any backstory would be a disappointment
Alastor design definitely in part inspired by Dr.Facilier from the princess and the frog, the voodoo imagery and his shadow almost having a mind of it's own
I love how much there was to bite on and analyse in this episode, but my biggest takeaway from it was at 57:00 with some vindication! You are not alone sir, not at all and I salute your honesty o7
Well, they did A LOT of trust falls as evident by Charlie going mad in front of that conspiracy board, what was it, ep4 or 5? While rewatching it seemed like a teeeensy-tiny setup that Charlie greatly values honesty and trust, but yeah, felt less obvious on the first watch even though it fit into the picture of her I had in mind. Also yeah. Just yeah.
Needed this today, ty. Your commentary is always so interesting, love to hear you talk about character motivations, writing and animation, it's like a gift
Something I've noticed is that the characters Alastor seems to like the most are the one who also smile the most, namely Rosie, Niffty and Charlie (to some extent).
I couldn't help but think of LoL Camille upon seeing Carmilla in the early episodes thanks to learning of her from your videos, then she went and fought with her legs in this one XD
17:37 My theory about Alastor is that he is actually unable not to smile. When his demonic form is shown at this moment, his mouth is stitched up - I think it’s some sort of mark of his deal; “you’ll do it with a smile on your face” or something in that direction
Funny enough in one of Vivziepop's old speedpaint "Hello Dolly" use the Disneyland's main street music as it background music. That speedpaint features prototype designs of the cannibals, Cannibal Town and Rosie.
Comment for the youtube thing Carmilla, Carmilla Carmilla. She is my favourite character in the setting, and I am so glad you, ahem, enjoy her as well. One thing you didn't comment on tho that I was kinda hoping for, was Rosie's "ace in the hole" comment. I'm sure a million people already said so in the comments already, but that was canon confirmation that our favourite deer, Alastor, is asexual. I'm kinda sad you didn't point that out, it's nice to have some ace rep, happy for them. Also, the fact that THE most Tumblr Sexy Man character is canonically an ace is just a power move I respect. As for the newbies, come join the discord, it's great, lovely time. Also, on the topic of Discord: 🦀 If you know you know :)
Compression was the biggest thing that hurt this season for sure, but hopefully that won't be as much of a problem going forward. After the runaway success of the show, it's been greenlit for not only season 2 but 3 and 4 as well. With having that in mind and that sense of security, hopefully they can be more mindful about pacing the storyline out.
Alastor is inspirted in a normal deer, actually! He was confused for a deer and shot point blank when alive. I dont recall if this is canon or not, so take the next statement with a grain of salt, but he is bitter at the fact that he ended in hell looking like a deer (an animal well known for running away from danger) even tho he spent his whole life and afterlife trying to be an apex predator.
an eye coding that I don't think has been touched on yet: the "window to the soul" stuff of where we read humanity, even when it isn't a human, or with pareidolia, isn't even alive. So an eye in a wrong place creates body horror too
20:45 I’ve heard somewhere on the internet, that the symbols used, were originally voodoo symbols, but people criticised it, so they were changed to be voodoo-like symbols and not actual symbols
If you take a look at the old design of the Hotel, the one in the pilot, you can see a lot more of Lucifer's influence on the construction. It's really interesting, and kinda funny, like how there's just the top half of the Titanic just sticking out of the side, the carousel around the radio tower, the circus tent entrance, etc.
Vaggie Motha and her new wings. Similar things with wings has happened in life action Lucifer serial when angel come true some mental "redemption". Razzle and Dazzle are like Keekey they are toys Lucifer bring to life. Rosie's talk reminds me of Franklin from Pilot episode who was moust likely her friend maybe even.
The popular theory regarding who holds Alastor's leash is that it is Lilith or Eve. However it is purely due to how Both Lilith and Alastor was / has been missing for 7 years. (as mentioned in episode 1 and 2)
I assume one of the reasons why Alastor is not going for Charlie's *soul* is because it would an insane risk. Which is to say, Lucifer (and probably Lilith) would fucking eviscerate him. Plus, I imagine being on her good side probably has more benefits anyway. Charlie would forgive a whole lot, and she's very dedicated to helping people she cares about. Depending on what his mystery favor is, it could very well be something she might even be interested in doing voluntarily.
19:04 The thing with Alastor and Vudou is that Alastor was inspired by Dr Facilier. Vivzie actually got criticized (Rightfully imo) for using actual Vodou symbols with Alastor in the pilot, not only for using them which is already discouraged but for using them wrong too. Bc of that she and the crew deleted the symbols in the actual show (theyre all fake, also theres the slenderman one there), which is the right call btw I'm glad they listened to that criticism. This is also why Alastor's magic is green and why he has that neon look in some of his songs btw. Like once you know his main inspiration its so easy to see.
Incorrect. Alastor had all of these powers before Dr Facilier even existed, he's one of her oldest OCs. She has commented directly on this. For the Hazbin version she did make a few tweaks to him to lampshade the similarities, a sort of knowing nod to him. But he's had most of those similarities in her fanworks since before that movie came out.
Its it boys, next episode is the big one. This will be fun And yeah, Alastor definely has some Wendigo roots to his design and concept, as he is a deer cannibal. Interesting you picked onto it
1:04:38 honestly what you were talking about really picked my interest because that put into words stuff i couldn't myself and i'm really curious now about this non-commitment to understanding stuff, like where that stems from? if theres any documentation about it i'd be super interested!
re: what you said about your ADHD brain at around 1:05:00-1:06:00, speaking as someone who very much has the same symptoms as you, while i agree that it can be exhausting and frustrating to live with these symptoms, _especially_ the "forgetting what you were trying to talk about" part, to me personally it is also incredibly fascinating and validating to talk with / listen to people with this kind of "ADHD brain", because it's just interesting thought after interesting thought, and i love nothing more than listening to a person talk about a topic that they have passionate thoughts about. a couple of months ago i was in a discord call with a friend who also has similar symptoms, and we ended up talking for like 12 hours without the conversation ever getting dull, because we were just progressing from topic to topic at such a natural pace, and while, sure, not every topic was actually finished, i personally think that's okay. okay, let's wrap this up before my comment also gets over an hour long lol. i don't want to step over any personal boundaries because of course i don't know you and i'm just a random person on the internet and this is not for me to worry about, it just seems to me like you're talking yourself down, and i just wanted to say, it's not just "haha funny quirky ADHD brain", there's genuine value in having these kind of thought processes. it's of course not inherently "better" than being neurotypical, but it's also not inherintly worse. it's just different. again, i of course do not in any way want to invalidate your personal experiences and opinions, i just wanted to share my own :)
i am sorry to hear that you are off your meds and struggling, i really understand that feeling and i cannot imagine going of my meds anytime soon, my adhd was a part of my many many fights with loved ones, now it is better as the dosage got right. also love the linkin park reference haha
First, the deer thing is just part of Alastor's manifestation as a demon. There's no clear rules for it, but a sinner's powers and form are often related to the life they lived and how they died. It's understood that the deer thing is purely a function of the way he died. (In reality... Alastor's a very, very old creation of Vivzie's that's gone through many alterations over the years, and started off as a deer. it's just a core part of his design.) Now, I do know a bit about the history, structures and beliefs of voodoo due to an anthropology background, but it's been a while... and honestly not too much to say about it until we know what all Vivzie's doing with it. All we currently know is that he manifests related imagery when he uses his powers, but that could mean nothing more than that he grew up associating that sort of imagery with magical power. Or she could have a whole, well researched and executed thing planned around it that practitioners will be super happy with. I mean, the depiction of angel's abuse was handled very well, possibly fantastically well is compared to other media of this general type. We'll see. One thing that stands out to me though, and something I don't think I've seen anyone else say much about... when Alastor goes super creepy, he's often depicted as having his mouth stitched. This is traditionally associated with being a zombie, one who (greatly simplifying things here) has had his soul stolen and is forced into undying service. Also, in the tradition, the soul may well also enslaved. And, I mean, the man is a soul who's bound into somebody's service...
I think I and many other just assumed that it wasn't necessarily the weapon, but the angel weilding it. Since angels wouldn't have much in-fighting if any, it would be safe to assume if they attacked each other it would be "holy ordainment" as Adam phrases it, that does the hurting. Especially since Lute doesn't use a weapon to rip Vaggie's wings off, she uses her bare hands.
Great point about St Peter necessitating a divine Jesus figure -- I hadn't put that together before since I had already assumed that God wasn't a player in this show's cosmic power struggles. It's really too bad since I thought leaving God out of the story was a great move.
18:30 it's ok Skyen, even people who complain about it have no idea + it's just inspiration, they only used a little of voodoo, for example all the symbols are fake, they're just to look like voodoo symbols
Season 2 of Hazbin Hotel was greenlit pretty late into production from what I understand. It's far from perfect, but it's good. My biggest complaint of this episode was indeed that we didn't see Carmilla's hair come down. I'm hoping we can have a Helluva Boss watch along sometime after this. It's pretty good in its own right, even if it was acting like the hype train for Hazbin Hotel for the longest time. I'd love to hear some of your thoughts and comparisons of the two shows.
Oof, my ADHD symptoms hit especially hard today, I'm all over the freaken place.
Anyway, the plan is to record the reaction for the finale live with my community discord - same format as usual, but I'll stream the actual cartoon so people can see it in the server, which might be a nicer viewing experience. Plus I'll do some Q&A at the end.
If I have remembered to come back and edit this comment, the link should be right here: discord.com/invite/7SEhaMKm
Will you still be uploading the reaction to the finale on youtube for those of us who arent in the right timezones to make it to the livestream?
aww.,, I am not able to be there at the live event. I have a theory about Alistor ;)
You might wanna rephrase this comment cause idk how the goofy copyright laws are but I don't think you can stream the actual episode in discord. That's surely a violation of something and you could get in trouble.
Heck I wish I could join the live reaction, but alas. I am gonna be watching an in person musical actually :D
Aw I missed the link expiration :(
Skyen during the Pilot: "Yeah I don't think I'll like those Egg things"
Skyen in Episode 7: *Hardest laugh through the entire series originating from the egg bois*
I disliked the egg bois in the Pilot too, but I loved them so much in the show, they really did great work on them
I CANNOT even begin to explain how much I love them calling Carmilla Carmine CAMERO CARFIGHT! That has me rolling on the ground.
The one thing he hated was fixed. They're goons now
well, the new voice and direction definitely helped
I think Alastor was sent by someone who wants to manipulate Charlie to become antagonistic with Heaven. It seems like he's there to protect and mentor her to be more like him. Hence why Lucifer's presence is putting a wrench in his plans. It COULD be Lilith who sent him, or maybe it's someone we haven't seen yet.
Cannibal Town is based on classic musicals like "The Music Man" and "Hello, Dolly", which are set during the good ol days of around 1900. Rosie herself is based on Dolly Levi. Disney's Main Street, USA is supposed to evoke the same feeling of nostalgia.
The stag themes in Alastor's design are a really long winded discussion, but to surmise in a way that doesn't spoil things or use info outside of the actual show canon:
Sinners get a form that reflects either the way they died or an aspect of themselves that is supposedly meant to haunt them, basically their own appearance is meant to be a form of torture for them, as every sinner has something about their form in hell that they despise.
Alastor being a deer reflects the way he died. But more importantly it presents him as "prey". Which, for a character like Alastor, is obviously the last thing he'd want to be seen as. HE HATES THAT HE IS A DEER.
Alastor is someone that desperately tries to hide his weaknesses and appear strong and composed. ("a smile is a valuable tool")
A stag is often a symbol of strength and power, but a stag is still prey nonetheless. We see Alastor eating a deer carcass in his room, where we also see a mantle with deer antlers. So the stag symbolisms are really more of a representation of Alastor's inner conflict with himself. (He is a deer consuming and hunting other deer, desperately trying to distinguish himself as predator rather than prey through that action.)
The fact that Angel is a spider and (female) spiders are known to kill their partners after (during?) reproduction is... dark
@@xLarsZocktx I don't think that's all species, and Angel is modeled after a jumping spider more specifically. For him, I think he'd hate that he's a spider because his family ended up being spiders too (for meta lore reasons).
Something I love about Alastor and Rosie's partnership is that they compliment each other. You mentioned that when Alastor brings someone to Rosie, she understands it's beneficial to follow along with his act because they've manipulated people together before and I think you're right. Where most people know Alastor's a Danger and a Problem, if he can get in just enough to get them to Rosie, Rosie's ability to be charismatic without being outright creepy gets them over the finish line. Rosie doesn't seem to have a ton of actual powers, she never even considers joining her people in battle. She's set up like a politician, the mayor of the town everyone likes who represents them to the other overlords. She has political power and territory. Alastor is the opposite, bloody and powerful but he doesn't seem to actually hold territory, he only has souls and his broadcast. So in that way they can each do what the other can't.
Ooh, very true. Together, Rosie gets to be the sweetheart who MIGHT be too dangerous to cross, while Alastor gets to be the terror whose affability MIGHT be genuine. If this lark with Charlie really was improvised (or even if Al gave Rosie a heads-up, which wouldn't surprise me), they're definitely practiced at it. Bringing in Charlie while she's an off-balance mess would have made Alastor look a bit like a fool, unless the goal was to give "Auntie Rosie" a way in, too.
The whole situation played to their strengths perfectly. Rosie also seems to be a bit of an information broker, which compliments a radio show far too well. I will never not love this show's ability to write characters and then play them off of each other.
Enjoyed y'all's comments -- your insights into Alastor and Rosie's possible business dealings were really interesting.
Rosie doesn't have dialogue but she is shown, both in the show and the pilot. She sits next to Alastor during the Overlord meeting and she crosses out her business partners name at the start of the Pilot where we are shown the aftermath of the extermination
Fun little detail, but Charlie has hooves! You can see them in the scene where she's sulking in her room. Alastor is also shown to have hooves in official artwork.
Missed this detail -- thank you for pointing it out!
For any others curious, her hooves are shown at 01:45 of the episode.
One thing I like about Alastor dangling the info in front of Charlie this late in the game is that the reasons are multiple.
Firstly, he might not have been sure whether or not Hell's royalty knew about the angel being killable. Charlie saying "an invincible army" confirmed that his information had worth to her.
Secondly, at that point there is no time for Charlie to look for the information by herself. Had Alastor tried to sell the information a few months before, Charlie would have had time to search for this information by herself. The hotel residents would likely have talked about it between themselves and Frank would inevitably have given the solution lile he just did in this episode.
But there isn't much time left and Charlie can't start to look for it now.
And lastly, the reason you mentioned: Charlie is at rock bottom, and that makes her easier to manipulate.
Alastor doesn't just leverage the information at the right emotional time, he leverages it when he knows it has worth, and when it's too late to find it another way. He uses the urgency of the situation to increase the value of what he offers so he can ask for more, an urgency that also pushes her to make a reckless decision.
Agreed. It also gives him an opportunity for lovebombing. He pushes her into a deal she'll regret, complete with low blows she'd be angry about once she thinks about it... So, he immediately helps far beyond giving info, by bringing her to someone both friendly and helpful, with whom he can demonstrate his own ability to be friendly and helpful. Nevermind that Rosie is an Overlord comfortable with having Alastor as a friend; clearly it just means that Al has a softer side he's finally showing... and it just happened to come out while he swings Charlie from emotional low to high.
Charlie, sweetheart that she is, is going to remember Al handing her the microphone, his wonderful friend helping her through her relationship, and the parade they helped her lead. She'll remember a place in Hell where her singing worked, and who knew to bring her there. She's going to believe that maybe Al does care, beyond his own goals, and that maybe someday she can be his friend like Rosie is. Maybe they already are, and he's someone she really can rely on.
Maybe he does care a bit, since he visibly prefers women and Charlie has a proven ability to wiggle into people's hearts. Alastor's still mainly looking out for Alastor, though, and Charlie's gonna have to re-learn that the hard way.
I agree with your statement about Niffty.
On one side I think "maybe they are throwing us a curve ball and Niffty is actually a very powerful demon. Maybe even the one who controls Alistor."
On the other side I want her to just be the funny, creepy little goofball she is. Just doing her thing without any explanation or deeper motives.
Despite ADHD, I appreciated the tangent about being generous toward subtext when you like a product vs being critical for something you don't like. Whenever I try to discuss the highs and lows of the Star Wars sequel trilogy I'm often met with the most literal interpretation of the text and "cinema sins" nitpicking. It's a very frustrating mentality with which to discuss anything and has seemingly pervaded all corners of "nerd culture".
I really love the little gesture of Alistor offering Charlie his microphone.
We don't know exactly whats the deal with it, but I guess it is something important to him.
So him giving it to Charlie makes me think, that he does in fact care about her more than he shows.
Maybe his line in episode 5 about him caring about her like a daughter had a little bit of truth in it and wasn't only to provoke Lucifer.
Or maybe it's just another trick from him to influence her.
Oh, I am 100% with you, Skyen. Carmilla with her hair down is simply gorgeous. Breathtaking. A vision. She ate and left no crumbs.
And I also absolutely agree on the whole utilisation of musical numbers in Hazbin to better tell the story in a shorter timeframe. Of course I deeply wish they had been given more episodes to work with. There are so many shows nowadays, especially animated shows, that just don't get enough time to tell the beautiful stories they want to tell.
So I'm also curious to see what and how much you realistically expect the show to tie up in the season finale. Quite a few things obviously won't be because 1) there isn't the time but also 2) there still needs to be things to do and explore and flesh out in season 2. Like, from a storytelling perspective it wouldn't make sense to resolve everything you set up in season 1 when you know you have a season 2, right? But is it gonna be seen as a flaw that they set things up to continue into and be a bigger part of a second season? We'll see!
Alastor is doing the Bill Cipher thing with "Sheesh kid, all I want is a puppet!"
Aroace Alastor makes me way happier than I thought he would 😂 Sure he's a villainous cannibal but he's badass, fascinating, personality-full, and an utter mood when having to hear relationship drama.
Writing my personal perspective before I watch, it may be childish but I want to see if I'm not the only person who thought that way:
Episode 7 kinda solidified Carmilla as the biggest collateral damage of the show's short length. Her only character moments by the second to last episode are three songs:
- One where she gets flattened on her own turf in a shouting match against a character that probably had a whopping ten lines of dialogue before that
- One that affirms her love for her daughters we barely met
- One dedicated to teaching the character who did everything for love that she sould do things for love, actually.
She *feels* like she should be cool- but she doesn't really get to do anything substantial or progress in a way that feels earned
Which is a shame cuz along with Alastor and the Vs, she seems to be one of the most substantial overlords.
I read "out for love" as her saying "you need to fight to protect people, right now you seem just as angry at Heaven and vengeful. Redirect the rage." Vaggie has *always* been a wrathful person in the show so it lines up.
Oof, charlie, language. "You harm no one" is not the same as "no one is harmed." And Alastor was originally a deer in the Zootopia comic she pulled some of these characters from. She is aware of the wendigo themes and hasn't shied from the overlap as he developed, but alastor is an oooooold OC. Voodoo, pindolls, eldritch, Princess and the Frog's Dr. Facilier, blood, and static are her stated themes/inspirations. With Dr Facilier being an recent one, as she made Alastor long before that movie existed. Though that does make it funnier that Husk is under his thumb!
You mean "Zoophobia" not Zootopia! XD
It would be way, WAY funnier if these characters are all from an old Zootopia fan-comic though so I have decided to believe this
The phrase "Zootopia fan comic" activated my fight or flight
@@3BSkyen Vaggie Motha and her new wings.
Similar things with wings has happened in life action Lucifer serial when angel come true some mental "redemption".
Razzle and Dazzle are like Keekey they are toys Lucifer bring to life.
Rosie's talk reminds me of Franklin from Pilot episode who was moust likely her friend maybe even.
Yeah... this deal is vague but.. IF she can leverage the fact that allowing preventable harm is the same as causing it... this could be easy to wiggle out of.
I think NOT focusing on Charlie and Vaggie together was fine. You pointed out why, Charlie is a forgiving person. Once she was out of the crisis and realized it wasn’t a trust issue but a self-loathing issue... forgiveness was easy. You actually see in the first scene in Rossie's boutique, charlie was already picking out that souvenir for vaggie. The betrayl only hurt because of the timing and who revealed it.
Ehhh, I feel them getting over her lying this quickly is one of the biggest issues with the shortening of the show. The only time a major character beat felt severly underdeveloped imo.
Alastor our ace king.
I know ive seen other people mention it too but i like this style of watching because it allows the ability to watch the whole thing through without needing to be cut up or altered for copyright. I dont find it inconvenient
I remember when we were watching these live, we kept being shocked whenever a character would say how much time they had left before the new extermination event. We had to stop and go, "Oh I guess 3 months passed since the last episode". I feel like this season could easily have twice as many episodes and not drag at all. I think the creator has been quoted that the next season's plot will likely be less complicated so hopefully the short season format won't feel so cramped.
Yeah, Vivzie said she had originally planned 22 episodes for this season, but it was cut short by the studio
Another video essay I watched pointed out that Rosie's basis is similar in historical reference to Alastor's "radio demon". Rosie is a reference to the old newspaper editorials, commonly referred to as "Ask Rosie" columns.
Everyone talks about how powerful you need to be to have Alastor on a leash, but isn't the whole point of a soul deal that you can control the other person... regardless?
If, for example, Alastor sold his soul for a jelly doughnut to a random demon on the street, then that person would have him on a leash, regardless of how much more powerful Alastor is.
If you could just forcefully take your soul back from a weaker demon it would negate the whole point of the significance of such a deal.
I guess no one just expects Alastor to have consciously given his soul for a deal. I personally think he was probably backed in a corner to accept a deal too
I think it would depend on the contract and how it was worded? if it specifies physically attacking the debt owner is forbidden. I can see the "you harm no one" in Charlie's deal being twisted into she not being allowed to use brute force against Alastor for example
15:48
Predicting the bit is always the best. Not only is the joke itself funny, but the setup makes you realize how long the joke was planned
41:32
Camaro Carfight really needs more solo development episodes. Here's to hoping that season 2 is longer
46:03
Holy shit i never noticed
57:08
One of us. One of us. One of us. One of us
1:04:23
Skyen realizes that he got from "This ladie is very pretty" to "Media literacy is important" in the span of a couple minutes. Dont worry, i gorgot thats how that started
Just to confirm, Alastor is from New Orleans, Louisiana which contributes heavily to the hinted Voodoo theme Alastor has on occasion.
52:44 It's not a direct disney parody, but it is like the Disney America street. It more specifically is referencing musicals that take place in this late 1800s-early 1900s time period as well like Hello Dolly and The Music Man.
and He also has mixed ethnicities so, He probably has some African past or caribbean past. who knows.
Aren't Rosie and Alastor just the *perfect* (surrogate) mom and dad figures? Charlie really needs (wants) that support right now, too, how convenient! :)
Also, yes, the setting of cannibal town is based on classical broadway/old Hollywood/disneyland/theme park depictions of turn of the century Americana. Which is fake on fake on fake. Its pageantry of the gilded age. It looks like what we wish it was but is very rotten under that perfect facade.
As a DnD Player, the deal Charlie made made me so nervous, it reminds me of Fey Bargains. At first it doesn't seem so bad, since it's "just a favour" and she has the condition to not hurt anyone, but the main point is "at the time of his choosing". These are the kind dangerous deals you definitively should avoid, since the "you owe me one" can come back to bite you at the worst time and when you nearly forget about them. Also places symbolically Alastor over Charlie, even if in-canon she shoud be more powerful than him.
As for Alastors desgin, you have 4 main aspects:
- voodoo (and/or hoodoo since that is appearently something seperate?) which comes from his half-creole background appearing in his full-demon form, the stitches and the symbols in the background. Also ties in nicely with his theme of "control"
- radio elements in his eyes, his main power
- deer elements which come from his way he died as many of the other comments have pointed out (close ups have also revealed the X on his forehead where he was shot). he has hooves and antlers, tho they could also come from the
- wendigo elements, with him being a cannibal he has the typical teeth like the others but also wendigos are sometimes associated with deer imagery, tho the other cannibals lack them
I appreciate that you are trying to be as positive as possible about the show, we all know that it's flawed but there's a lot of good on it too
funny enough rosie has been named before this but so subtly no one would notice unless you're already deeply immersed in the fandom. in the pilot episode's beginning she is crossing out a name on a sign because she killed her business partner.
22:50 This expression caught my attention too! "This is the attitude of a king or an emperor" YES! Aaaah, I don't want our sweet Charlie to go full evil but it'd be so good if slowly, she became more and more commanding and assertive when needed. Also... she looks so good, lol. More of this please.
24:54 "A little more of mother." Yeah, she's mother alright. (Okay I'll stop).
Alastor might have handed over more in that deal than you realise. His side of the deal is "I'll tell you what I know." It wasn't "I'll tell you what I know about killing angels."
There doesn't seem to be any clauses or stipulations, even weak ones, on what Alastor now has to tell Charlie. If she realises (assuming she hasn't already) she might be able to force him to answer, or threaten to force him to answer.
Assuming that this contract works on 'exact words' principles, and the way Alastor quickly changed the terms from "One tiny tiny little favour between friends" to "One favoiur at a time of my chosing where you harm no one." I'm guessing it is.
I really hope your idea of how the deal works is how it actually is. It would be a great moment of Alastor being too confident and trying to get the deal done quickly
@@XragebootsX Alternatively, and even more deviously, Alastor knows a very important secret that he wants to share, but can't voluntarily due to an existing contract - but if he can get Charlie to ask him one very specific question...
I love the common crush towards Carmilla lol! Lovely reaction and analysis as always, so sad next is the last episode
Since you picked up on how Alastor manipulated Charlie into making the deal, there’s a neat little element to his negging before her first failed pitch to the cannibals. He might be trying to get her to mess up on purpose so Rosie can get in and do the same thing he’s doing. That might be his real gift to her: an in with Charlie.
59:45 - 1:04:25 I feel this rant so much. The "enlightened anti-intellectualism" when it comes to media literacy annoys me to no end. I really don't know if it has gotten worse or has always been like this, but it certainly gets to me more as time goes on. Like even discussing Hazbin Hotel, I got in a brief online argument (I know, first mistake) with multiple people trying to convince them that in episode 3, when Zestial is enquiring to Alastor about where he has been and mentions that "some have spread wild tales of you falling to holy arms", he means both that some had speculated he died to an executioner's blade, as well as hinting he suspects Alastor has become involved with heaven somehow (coming to basically the same conclusions you did). I could not get past people insisting "no he just meant that he thought Alastor was killed, arms is just an old-timey word for weapons" (which also as an aside...how is "arms" at all an old timey word?). Also, as a fellow queer, I know exactly what you were going to talk about with left-wing media literacy without you even having to elaborate 💀.
*All that being said* , I actually do think that in relation to the discussion at 1:09:10 , the reoccurring eyes motif is not much more than the show designer's own aesthetic inclinations. The fact they are basically everywhere without much of a pattern or consistency seems to indicate this to me. Contrast that instead with the intentionality with which eye symbolism is used in something like Bloodborne and the difference seems pretty clear.
However, I don't think that means that the eye symbolism carries absolutely no meaning in Hazbin Hotel; it seems likely to me they are meant to invoke the imagery of "biblically accurate angels" as you talked about last episode, and that does carry a lot of associated connotations. The reason we find the image of "biblically accurate angels" compelling is that they subvert the depictions of angels being basically humans with wings and turn them into something entirely inhuman; inhuman in a way that's basically 'above' humanity, the extra eyes invoking a feeling of omniscience and divine judgment, privy to the objective laws of the universe no human soul can hope to understand. I think that that connotation is what drew the show runners to use them in the first place, both in Heaven and Hell, that there is always a sense of some unknowable and unquestionable 'judgment' that the characters are fighting back against through the course of the story.
Also, breaking from the explicit text (I know, death of author ect ect), Medrano has said that in the world of Hazbin Hotel, when mortal souls are destroyed, they basically disperse into the environment and become part of the composition of Hell itself. In this case, eyes being used to indicate the manifestation of this effect probably relates to the idea of eyes being "a window to the soul".
Honestly they missed the opportunity to introduce Rosie better during the overlord meeting. She was in that btw, just didn't say anything(and didn't snitch on the Egg Boy when she saw him). Something simple as Alastor moving her chair out so she can sit (and then she gives the creepy grin to the Egg Boy and share a sweet smile with Alastor like in the actual episode) and/or she invites him over for Finger food and he takes a rain check on it (and it doubles as a joke when u realize she meant actual fingers, in this episode) when they get kicked out(or before the meeting idk). Didn't have to be anything big, but just to better establish her connection with Alastor, make people curious.
Like a simple:
"Oh Alastor so good to see you again! You should come over for some finger food, we just got some new samples!"
"Ah sorry my dear, but I must take a rain check on that for now. Places to be, deals to make, all that jazz, but good to see you too darling"
"Of course you do, but I'll hold you to it, dear~"
And have him wave goodbye over his shoulder as he leaves or sits down himself. That short. Though I've no idea what should have been cut to make room for that. I just love Rosie, she needed more time somehow
Charlie: “What do you do when someone you love lies to you for so long”
Skyen: “EAT THEM”
XXXXD IM DYING
One thing that I'm surprised you haven't mentioned yet is the colour-difference between Alastor as a character and the powers that he uses. While he himself is entirely dressed in red, hell and all, everytime he uses his powers it's green light/symbols and black tentacles/creatures. That's also interesting to note considering that the strings that appear when he makes the deal with Charlie, the strings that appear to pull apart his lips and force his smile, are also green. I'm thinking that he might just be borrowing the power of whatever is controlling him (or has made a deal specifically for this power). And green/black doesn't read as Lilith to me personally.
I think this show did the best it could with the limits put on it, but it would DEFINITELY have benefitted from more time and episodes. I didn't really realize just how RUSHED it felt until I started watching reactions to it
It also relied HEAVILY on its audience having a decent level of media literacy -there's so much implied, (EDIT) namely the fact that this season takes place over a six (6) month period, since Adam said in the first episode that they were moving the extermination up. And last episode was set ~5 months after that, so there's a LOT going on in the background that we aren't seeing because of the time constraints and compression
I felt the first half it was only slightly noticeable, then Episode 5,6,7 should've been at least 2 episodes each.
Rosie is actually a small cameo in the pilot to. it is implied that she murdered or caused the death of her partner (possibly both business and personal) Franklin during the last extermination which is now why she is the sole proprietor of Rosie's which used to be Franklin and Rosies.
OK I WAS JUST GONNA WATCH THIS AND NOT COMMENT BC I DONT WANT TO SPEND 2 HOURS WATCHING BUT-
25:46 Skyen losing it, his laugh is contagious
and 26:28 Skyen being haunted by hazbin tiktok once again
29:17 HE'S STILL LAUGHING ABOUT IT HELP
49:03 they're my favourites but YES
50:54 not ominous at all
57:11 looking at you like that (same)
58:38 Do It For Her from Steven Universe my beloved
1:04:23 I... I have no idea
50:01 is so funny if isolated on its own
Your laughter was precious!
Relating to your end tangent, it's something I noticed in Power scaling communities as well and it's so upsetting. It surprised me at first, thought it would be a type of exercise were looking into interpretation and not taking all litteraly would make sense
The voodoo thing on Alastor's design is mostly based around who he was as a human! The deer thing too, but is separated. Remember sinners designs are their souls! They're all based around who they were when alive and what they did! Idk how much to say but basically he used to use a deer hunting ground to bury his victims, and died getting shot in the head when a hunter mistook him for a deer
I'm not sure about that. Husk seems to have little to do with cats past the tuxedo cat pattern evoking a magicians tux
@nectarinn3 it's one of the issues of the show that they don't explain that connection. But based on the sister series Helluva Boss, sinners' hell designs are based on who they were when they were alive. I wish it was elaborated on but I'd almost bet Husk has something to do with cats but it wasn't explained (and probably was thought up after his design to "justify" it)
@@nectarinn3 black cats have an association with bad luck, so that could be tying into the gambling theme
I heard it suggested that he hated cats when he was alive, but that could be fan theory
20:00 I think the biggest issue with the voodoo (and deer) theming for Alastor is that we dont have any context for why those elements are in his design. The radio elements make full sense, and they're given context with him having been a 1920s radio host in life, but neither the pilot nor this first season ever touch on the other 2/3 of him. Is him using the demonized pop culture elements of voodoo problematic? On the face of it, maybe yes, but I don't think I can concretely say until more info is given.
If you follow all the absolutely batshit lore from random tweets and livestreams it probably makes sense
No in show context at least. But the lore Viv made for him does clear it up a little. He's a mixed-Creole man who was born in (if I remember correctly) Louisiana. He probably learned Voodoo from his mother (it's been stated he was a mama's boy so I could see him learning it from her). He was a radio host and serial killer in life, who died one day when he was hiding a body and a hunter mistook him for a deer, hence his whole theme. (The little red x you can see on his forehead sometimes is where he got shot)
Susan uses the same outfit that Alastor puts on Vaggie in the pilot, that's cute
I feel her complicating factor is the fact she's a cannibal ngl.
I think she doesn't need to be evil, she's a cannibal, that's enough. Also she's hellborn, not a sinner iirc. So she might just genuinely be like this
Just to clarify, Rosie being a Hellborn was some old canon thrown around by an artist who no longer works at Spindle horse. She's a sinner through and through now. You can research it. Too be fair though, hellaverse lore is super murky and mostly speculation or baseless statements until proven in the actual shows
Rosie showed up for about 10 seconds in the pilot episode, and it was implied she used the extermination as cover to murder one of her buisiness partners. You can see her in the opening song, and refrenced again when the newsreader lady mentions that some guy never showed up for his "cannibal cooking show".
The cannibal cooking show segment was a reference to Jeffery Dahmer. Lol.
I do hope the next season does the pacing better.
With Hazbin's sister show, Helluva boss (genuinely impressive it was developed at the same time, more or less, as hazbin), there are evident pacing issues since the second episode.
It also uses the 8 episode format (8 episodes in the first season, and 7 currently in the second season, with 7/8 episodes for 2024 iirc), so i dont know if the second season of hazbin hotel will differ from what the team is already doing.
Being completely fair, Helluva's format is more episodic, with a wide story throughout each episode. It seems to me one of the weak points of Vivienne's writing, she can do some really hitting moments, but they are undercut by being underdeveloped or rushed. With Helluva, it may be because it is entirely funded by merch sales basically, so they may not have room for more episodes, and hazbin's case might've been a bad coincidence (as you say, with the team not knowing how much they'd get to develop the plot)
Just hoping they give the show the episodes it needs next time
21:26 there's a popular fan theory that Alistor dried because he was mistaken for a deer and was shot and thats why theres sometimes an X on his forehead
That's not a theory. That's a statement from a creator.
@@maromania7Yeah, but they've also said that not everything is canon anymore. There's been some changes, partially because of having to rewrite part of the season, or they just decided they want to go in a different direction. As far as I know Viv hasn't clarified what's stayed canon, and that's probably because the show may go in a different direction at some point down the line on certain things.
12 instead of 8 episodes would be SO much more of a healthy time. So additional about 90 minutes would have been SUCH a blessing
The voodoo with Alistor gave me reason to not have him as my favourite character. The voodoo has been roundly criticised, since it not only originally displayed real symbols, but used them in an entirely wrong context. Unfortunately, popular media hasn't been good at conveying that Voodoo is a real world religion, to the point that many people have been shocked at the pushback.
The wendigo thing is coincidental, but there has been no official correction sent out to the fandom.
He's still a fun character, and I imagine a favourite of the writers simce he got some of the best scenes in the whole season.
Rosie was inspired by Barbara Streisand in Hello, Dolly.
I hope they add so much incidental quirks to Nifty that any backstory would be a disappointment
Alastor design definitely in part inspired by Dr.Facilier from the princess and the frog, the voodoo imagery and his shadow almost having a mind of it's own
You simping over Carmilla is so valid 😂
You could say Nifty is pretty nifty the way she is
Yeah such a sad timeline we live in that hazbin hotel only got 8 episodes. But I guess we are still lucky that its still best it can be.
Love brick jokes. I adore waiting for my punchlines.
I love how much there was to bite on and analyse in this episode, but my biggest takeaway from it was at 57:00 with some vindication! You are not alone sir, not at all and I salute your honesty o7
Well, they did A LOT of trust falls as evident by Charlie going mad in front of that conspiracy board, what was it, ep4 or 5? While rewatching it seemed like a teeeensy-tiny setup that Charlie greatly values honesty and trust, but yeah, felt less obvious on the first watch even though it fit into the picture of her I had in mind.
Also yeah. Just yeah.
Needed this today, ty.
Your commentary is always so interesting, love to hear you talk about character motivations, writing and animation, it's like a gift
Something I've noticed is that the characters Alastor seems to like the most are the one who also smile the most, namely Rosie, Niffty and Charlie (to some extent).
I think you will find the finale satisfying in at least a few ways. Cannot wait to hear the reaction.
I couldn't help but think of LoL Camille upon seeing Carmilla in the early episodes thanks to learning of her from your videos, then she went and fought with her legs in this one XD
17:37 My theory about Alastor is that he is actually unable not to smile. When his demonic form is shown at this moment, his mouth is stitched up - I think it’s some sort of mark of his deal; “you’ll do it with a smile on your face” or something in that direction
Funny enough in one of Vivziepop's old speedpaint "Hello Dolly" use the Disneyland's main street music as it background music. That speedpaint features prototype designs of the cannibals, Cannibal Town and Rosie.
Comment for the youtube thing
Carmilla, Carmilla Carmilla. She is my favourite character in the setting, and I am so glad you, ahem, enjoy her as well. One thing you didn't comment on tho that I was kinda hoping for, was Rosie's "ace in the hole" comment. I'm sure a million people already said so in the comments already, but that was canon confirmation that our favourite deer, Alastor, is asexual. I'm kinda sad you didn't point that out, it's nice to have some ace rep, happy for them. Also, the fact that THE most Tumblr Sexy Man character is canonically an ace is just a power move I respect.
As for the newbies, come join the discord, it's great, lovely time.
Also, on the topic of Discord: 🦀
If you know you know :)
Compression was the biggest thing that hurt this season for sure, but hopefully that won't be as much of a problem going forward. After the runaway success of the show, it's been greenlit for not only season 2 but 3 and 4 as well. With having that in mind and that sense of security, hopefully they can be more mindful about pacing the storyline out.
Alastor is inspirted in a normal deer, actually! He was confused for a deer and shot point blank when alive.
I dont recall if this is canon or not, so take the next statement with a grain of salt, but he is bitter at the fact that he ended in hell looking like a deer (an animal well known for running away from danger) even tho he spent his whole life and afterlife trying to be an apex predator.
I think Alistor realized quickly that Charlie would never make a deal *for herself* but would do anything *for others*
an eye coding that I don't think has been touched on yet: the "window to the soul" stuff of where we read humanity, even when it isn't a human, or with pareidolia, isn't even alive. So an eye in a wrong place creates body horror too
“EAT THEM.” I laughed so hard at this line
20:45 I’ve heard somewhere on the internet, that the symbols used, were originally voodoo symbols, but people criticised it, so they were changed to be voodoo-like symbols and not actual symbols
If you take a look at the old design of the Hotel, the one in the pilot, you can see a lot more of Lucifer's influence on the construction. It's really interesting, and kinda funny, like how there's just the top half of the Titanic just sticking out of the side, the carousel around the radio tower, the circus tent entrance, etc.
Vaggie Motha and her new wings.
Similar things with wings has happened in life action Lucifer serial when angel come true some mental "redemption".
Razzle and Dazzle are like Keekey they are toys Lucifer bring to life.
Rosie's talk reminds me of Franklin from Pilot episode who was moust likely her friend maybe even.
The popular theory regarding who holds Alastor's leash is that it is Lilith or Eve.
However it is purely due to how Both Lilith and Alastor was / has been missing for 7 years.
(as mentioned in episode 1 and 2)
I assume one of the reasons why Alastor is not going for Charlie's *soul* is because it would an insane risk. Which is to say, Lucifer (and probably Lilith) would fucking eviscerate him. Plus, I imagine being on her good side probably has more benefits anyway. Charlie would forgive a whole lot, and she's very dedicated to helping people she cares about. Depending on what his mystery favor is, it could very well be something she might even be interested in doing voluntarily.
1:04:00 I feel you Skyen, trust me as a ADHD DM it is H A R D, I just black out for 5 hours and then get really depressed afterwards :D
19:04 The thing with Alastor and Vudou is that Alastor was inspired by Dr Facilier. Vivzie actually got criticized (Rightfully imo) for using actual Vodou symbols with Alastor in the pilot, not only for using them which is already discouraged but for using them wrong too.
Bc of that she and the crew deleted the symbols in the actual show (theyre all fake, also theres the slenderman one there), which is the right call btw I'm glad they listened to that criticism.
This is also why Alastor's magic is green and why he has that neon look in some of his songs btw. Like once you know his main inspiration its so easy to see.
Incorrect. Alastor had all of these powers before Dr Facilier even existed, he's one of her oldest OCs. She has commented directly on this. For the Hazbin version she did make a few tweaks to him to lampshade the similarities, a sort of knowing nod to him. But he's had most of those similarities in her fanworks since before that movie came out.
Oh can't wait for a 20 minute rant about the hypocricy of miliary recruitmnent ads
For some reason I distinctly remember a scene where Carmilla takes down her hair, but then also it wasn't in the version I watched along with, soo
Its it boys, next episode is the big one. This will be fun
And yeah, Alastor definely has some Wendigo roots to his design and concept, as he is a deer cannibal. Interesting you picked onto it
1:04:38 honestly what you were talking about really picked my interest because that put into words stuff i couldn't myself and i'm really curious now about this non-commitment to understanding stuff, like where that stems from? if theres any documentation about it i'd be super interested!
I just have to comment that 50:52 is an amazing pause frame.
Gosh I would love to get a compilation of Skyen laughing his ass off to this series
episodes 6 and 7 are probably the most hurt by the time constraint.
CHARLIES CUTIE PATOOTIES HOOVES in the bedroom! :3
Small details people may not know. In Alastors song in the pilot he dressed Vaggy as Susan.
re: what you said about your ADHD brain at around 1:05:00-1:06:00, speaking as someone who very much has the same symptoms as you, while i agree that it can be exhausting and frustrating to live with these symptoms, _especially_ the "forgetting what you were trying to talk about" part, to me personally it is also incredibly fascinating and validating to talk with / listen to people with this kind of "ADHD brain", because it's just interesting thought after interesting thought, and i love nothing more than listening to a person talk about a topic that they have passionate thoughts about. a couple of months ago i was in a discord call with a friend who also has similar symptoms, and we ended up talking for like 12 hours without the conversation ever getting dull, because we were just progressing from topic to topic at such a natural pace, and while, sure, not every topic was actually finished, i personally think that's okay.
okay, let's wrap this up before my comment also gets over an hour long lol. i don't want to step over any personal boundaries because of course i don't know you and i'm just a random person on the internet and this is not for me to worry about, it just seems to me like you're talking yourself down, and i just wanted to say, it's not just "haha funny quirky ADHD brain", there's genuine value in having these kind of thought processes. it's of course not inherently "better" than being neurotypical, but it's also not inherintly worse. it's just different. again, i of course do not in any way want to invalidate your personal experiences and opinions, i just wanted to share my own :)
i am sorry to hear that you are off your meds and struggling, i really understand that feeling and i cannot imagine going of my meds anytime soon, my adhd was a part of my many many fights with loved ones, now it is better as the dosage got right.
also love the linkin park reference haha
First, the deer thing is just part of Alastor's manifestation as a demon. There's no clear rules for it, but a sinner's powers and form are often related to the life they lived and how they died. It's understood that the deer thing is purely a function of the way he died. (In reality... Alastor's a very, very old creation of Vivzie's that's gone through many alterations over the years, and started off as a deer. it's just a core part of his design.)
Now, I do know a bit about the history, structures and beliefs of voodoo due to an anthropology background, but it's been a while... and honestly not too much to say about it until we know what all Vivzie's doing with it. All we currently know is that he manifests related imagery when he uses his powers, but that could mean nothing more than that he grew up associating that sort of imagery with magical power. Or she could have a whole, well researched and executed thing planned around it that practitioners will be super happy with. I mean, the depiction of angel's abuse was handled very well, possibly fantastically well is compared to other media of this general type. We'll see.
One thing that stands out to me though, and something I don't think I've seen anyone else say much about... when Alastor goes super creepy, he's often depicted as having his mouth stitched. This is traditionally associated with being a zombie, one who (greatly simplifying things here) has had his soul stolen and is forced into undying service. Also, in the tradition, the soul may well also enslaved.
And, I mean, the man is a soul who's bound into somebody's service...
I Was surprised that alex brightman plays both Adam and Sir Pentious
my fav part of the day is when i come home from uni and there is a new hazbin reaction from you
Late to the party, but how tf did vaggie not realize angelic weapons could harm angels? She couldn't put two and two together when she lost an eye?
I think I and many other just assumed that it wasn't necessarily the weapon, but the angel weilding it. Since angels wouldn't have much in-fighting if any, it would be safe to assume if they attacked each other it would be "holy ordainment" as Adam phrases it, that does the hurting. Especially since Lute doesn't use a weapon to rip Vaggie's wings off, she uses her bare hands.
Great point about St Peter necessitating a divine Jesus figure -- I hadn't put that together before since I had already assumed that God wasn't a player in this show's cosmic power struggles. It's really too bad since I thought leaving God out of the story was a great move.
Rather than a Disney Main Street USA reference, this episode was mostly referencing Hello Dolly, even down to the title.
18:30 it's ok Skyen, even people who complain about it have no idea + it's just inspiration, they only used a little of voodoo, for example all the symbols are fake, they're just to look like voodoo symbols
it is edwardian fashion!
When Rosie called Alastor "an ace in the hole" that was the writers basically confirming that he's Ace-Arro.
Ace and aro are not the same thing, and don't necessarily go together.
There's point when Alastor making the deal he has voodoo doll appearance.
Season 2 of Hazbin Hotel was greenlit pretty late into production from what I understand. It's far from perfect, but it's good. My biggest complaint of this episode was indeed that we didn't see Carmilla's hair come down.
I'm hoping we can have a Helluva Boss watch along sometime after this. It's pretty good in its own right, even if it was acting like the hype train for Hazbin Hotel for the longest time. I'd love to hear some of your thoughts and comparisons of the two shows.
We actually do see Carmilla put her hair down, it just happens in like, three frames. Because, y’know, compression