Bad Dialogue vs Good Dialogue ROUND 2 (Writing Advice)
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- Explore five new types of bad dialogue and learn how to fix them. Examples from Game of Thrones, The Dark Knight, The Godfather, Titanic, Star Wars, and more!
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0:00 Intro
0:27 Good Dialogue
1:32 Good Dialogue Example
2:18 Bad Dialogue
2:37 Name Calling
4:46 Preachy Dialogue
7:31 Filler Dialogue
9:47 Relentlessly Repeated Phrases
12:31 Clunky Comebacks
14:41 Outro
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idk what u talkin about. "hi doggy" and "ur my favorite customer." are some of the most iconic lines in movie history.
What a story, Mark!
But top spot surely still goes to "I did nat hit her, iss bullshit, I did nat hit her, I did naaaaht. Oh, hi Mark."
@@writerinprogress I read somewhere that this scene took hours to get "right." Gotta respect Tommy Wiseau's devotion to his craft haha
Another great line: "mother you're alive?" " Too bad you....will die"
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty if you haven't seen Disaster Artist about the making of the Room, it's a must. The scene where they keep shooting that scene is hilarious.
What Luke should've said is "well, that's just, like, your opinion, dad."
Best comeback of all time:
"Our arrows will blot out the sun!"
"Then we will fight in the shade."
My favourite thing about that flower shop scene is that they both start their next lines and actions before the first person even finishes their own prerequisite line. And also that the flower shop lady knows who Johnny is, and even calls him her favourite customer, but somehow didn't know it was him when he came in.
C'mon, she can't be expected to immediately recognize every black haired vampire who walks in!😂
Such a masterful work of art! 🥲👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Don't act like you would recognise a chameleon like Tommy Wiseau without even being able to see his eyes.
Not only does Luke not speak, but act. But his lightsaber powers on quickly, loudly and brightly. Indicating his brash, youthful cockiness. While Vader's, after a moment, hisses more subtly to life, the blade extending more slowly and in a slower, more deliberate motion than the quick flick Luke had done. Foreshadowing before the first attack of the fight that Luke is confident and young, but stands against a more powerful and experienced master.
Yep, I love everything about it
Yes, I noticed the difference in speed in the activation of both Light Sabers. I thought this was accidental. But your explanation shows it must be symbolic here, for the reasons you stated.
Um.. dang bro..
Body language is so important in that scene. Like when Luke tags Vader in the shoulder with his lightsaber. You hear Vader cry out in pain, and suddenly his lightsaber technique gets way more aggressive. He chops one of the spires in half, then beats Luke into submission before taking his hand off.
You realize then that Luke really did get a lucky shot in, because the duel was essentially over when Vader decided it was over.
@@seamusburke639 It is easily my favourite fight in Star Wars. It might not be the flashiest, it might not have as interesting background, or as intense music as other fights, but in terms of technical accuracy and most importantly, story telling, it is hands down the best in the series.
And yet some rules are made to be broken. Case in point: an epic bit of dialogue that is on the nose, involves excessive name usage, and repeating the same phase over and over. And it starts: “Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya…”
So TRUE!! Incredibly impactful dialogue by Inigo Montoya!
Someone once told me: you have to know the rules and how to use them before you can think of breaking them.
So true. But it works despite the repetitiveness because like with "You know nothing, John Snow" it demonstrates growth and determination in the character. It's an endurance test that Mandy Patinkin pulls out of the character, showing his preternatural determination, and also "showing, instead of telling" us that the character is singularly focused. I love that many of the repeatable lines from Princess Bride actually irritate the characters after hearing them too often.
"It's not your fault" in Good Will Hunting uses the same rule in inverse. Repetition can be very powerful, but with both Princess Bride and Good Will Hunting the repetition elicits some discomfort from other characters, putting the person repeating dialogue in a position of control and forcing their point.
It's all in the delivery!
For Titanic, I always figured it was Jack just panicking in the moment, but was trying to keep Rose focused, because if she panicked too, she probably couldn’t find the keys & they were both dead.
True but its just not how a real person would talk to another adult especially if they already have a connection. You can convey all of that with tone. People only do this when talking to children, pets or someone attention/focus disorders
Yeah but you're missing the point. It's not a normal situation. Jack is handcuffed to a pipe on a sinking ship.. Rose has just been wading through freezing water trying to find him, on a sinking ship. Its not a normal conversation. Its panic, just like OP said. And it's a terrible example in trying to say its poor dialogue.
And you figured correctly.
I swear, these video essays are just becoming more and more stupid.
yah- thats the great thing about art- if its a great story people will be able to fill in the gaps with stuff like that, explaining away peculiar behavior. i agree- that is very much a state of extreme panic that would be more than enough to cause a persons speech patterns to become unusual like that.
in real life though- i knew someone who had an annoying habit of over using peoples names when addressing them. I think its a sign of affection.
@Prince36300 a real person would be also be unable to move their fingers after a few seconds in water that temperature. The entire movie requires a suspension of disbelief.
Great dialogue #4 example would be in LOTR the fellowship between Boromir and Aragorn. Early on, boromir is clearly uncomfortable with Aragorn and says “Gondor has no King. Gondor NEEDS no King” this theme is played out between the two of them through the film, until, with his dying breath, Boromir turns to Aragorn and says “my brother. My captain. My king” such a powerful close.
foreshadowing. you plant something early, switch it or fulfill it or bring it into the plot much later. Also plays on the heartstrings since the dying person admits he has changed views but... alas, he won't be doing much fealty to his newfound king.
This was a powerful moment in the book. The movies are great but they don't really establish what is the catalyst for this change of heart in Boromir.
@@HontounoShiramizu pretty obvious. No man would want to be ruled by another man, much less a friend or relative. That's my belief. Why should another man rule over me? It's an antiquated system of control we still use to this day and in a world of educated people who all grew up with their basic needs met instead of growing up like animals, we wouldn't need rulers.
@@HontounoShiramizu agreed! The movies did the best they could, and I loved them, but the story and Tolkien’s writing was poetic. So beautiful
Extended edition shows a progression of Boromir's character in a positive light, despite him still being corrupted by the ring. Im thinking of a scene after they get to Galadriel where Boromir is talking about the vision she showed him of Gondor's fall. I think he goes as far as to acknowledge that his father is losing it.
“You are my queen, I don’t know what else I can say!”
Man that last line is almost meta in it’s hilarity. 😅
"You should be our king, Jon Snow."
"I don't want it." (
What the actor wanted to say: _"You are my queen. I'm not allowed to say anything else!"_ 🤣🤣
I guess Jon Snow really does know nothing.
"You were my queen" is how they should have ended it.
MAH QWEENNNNN
Anybody else start dying seeing yoda say “yo Luke”
Haha they gotta let Stallone direct a Star Wars movie someday
definitely i was thinking thats perfect comedy :)
moreso stallone speaking like yoda than vice versa.
Robot chicken, anyone?
One of the better non-silent comebacks is also in "The Dark Knight":
Joker: "I like it when they fight back."
Batman (appearing on the scene): "Then you'll love me."
Just a small point on the use of names. Saying somebody's name repeatedly during a conversation is actually a manipulation tactic. It's used by scammers and salesmen all the time. It's a tactic to try and quickly build the facade of a bond and get you to trust them. So if used in that context I think it could bring a lot to a scene.
I think that would be a good way to use name calling. Now I know to be suspicious of people who say my name too often.
"Rose, i need you to read me out the numbers on the back of your credit card. And the name of your first pet, Rose."
Every single line the Joker says in the TDK is brilliant writing. Can't convince me otherwise.
Amen to that
The writing and Heath's portrayal, blew me away, and it was so 'out there', in terms of the Joker, it still kills, all these years later. Best of the series, the last one, was meh to me, not even in the same league as the Dark Knight.
What made it better is I was on vacation, and was have a great time already, and saw an outstanding movie. That happed one other time I was on a trip and took in Pulp Fiction. Left the theatre and was just wow, a movie like I had never experience before. - Cheers
Amen to that.......2
I'm surprised I don't see people bring up the blatant hypocrisy of Joker though. When he speaks to Dent in the hospital, he says he can't stand Gordon and others because they're all schemers, yet this is the same guy who purposely got captured and planted a bomb in someone in one grand scheme. He also tells Dent he isn't a man with a plan and he's like a dog chasing cars, and yet when he has the bombs planted on the boats, he's reading his speech off a piece of paper. Joker is actually a very meticulous schemer down to the last detail. It could even be argued he's only delivering this speech to Dent in order to make Dent do what he wants him to do, which is another one of his schemes. But people seem to interpret TDK's Joker as characterized by what he tells Dent.
My one gripe is "Dent? He's just the beginning…".
Beginning of what? Because Batman and Gordon preceded him by a year. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "He's just a DA."? I mean, to a mobster, a DA is a big deal, but to a mob running the city, maybe not so much.
I think you actually entirely missed the reason the Flower Shop Scene dialogue doesn't work in the Room. Sure the scene is unimportant to the plot and could be cut, but the issue is that the two actors ARE NOT RESPONDING TO EACH OTHER. Their lines are delivered as if they're direct responses to the line two lines ago. The sense of timing is warped so completely it feels alien. A version of the flower shop scene where they simply responded to each other in time would feel infinitely more natural if still unnecessary to the story.
I remember being struck by both the pointlessness of the scene and the bad acting. Watching it again now, it almost seems like what you’d get if you walked into a shop with a camera and convinced the person working there to let you film buying something from them. Then layered the audio of lines like “You’re my favorite customer” on top of the limited footage.
Also the dialogues are like someone's talking to a chatbot. Rather than being too natural, they are unnatural, humans don't say things like "You are my favourite customer", they convey this with their actions like predicting what the other person's gonna choose or behaving in a remarkably friendly way, friendlier than they behave with others.
It feels like some language students trying to reassemble individual sentences into a conversation.
It's both bad dialogue, and bad filmmaking. It seems like a poor use of ADR to make up for what is probably a bad take due to how noisy the shots in the flower shop probably is.
m.ruclips.net/video/K40IToeN51Y/видео.html&pp=ygUWRGlzYXN0ZXIgYXJ0aXN0IGV4ZXJwdA%3D%3D
That is an excerpt from the Disaster Artist audiobook , where Gregg Sestero talks about filming that scene. It's absolutely hysterical
See, i dont mind the "rose, rose, rose" stuff in titanic because i think it makes sense for Jack to be trying his best to keep her calm and in the moment. Hes trying his best to be chill and to keep her distracted from the gravity of the situation.
Almost any dialogue is better than 100 repetitions of "You are my queen"
Or “I don’t want it” lol
Good Will Hunting has the best example of impactful line repetition with the "It's not your fault" scene.
Great call on that one. Need to rewatch GWH one of these days
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty "He stole my line" may have been the greatest movie improv ever.
That was also the first scene i thought about.
i thought it was a touch corny...
I love the back-and-forth when Chuckie finally calls Will out on not taking the job. It pierces Will's whole emotional dilemma and puts him on his ear.
"You don't owe it to yourself. You owe it to me."
Always interpreted the Titanic scene as Jack trying to ground Rose in an emergency situation to keep her cool. Doesn’t bother me cause it has a purpose.
Yes, good point!
I agree
I don't think so. They are close, intimate, they know each other. They can speak without honorifics, as the Asians would say. If you had a conversation like theirs, you would not waste time on calling that name all this time.
It may have been intended that way as written, but the actress didn't give us "distracted/freaking-out" body language.
Exactly, I just made this point in a comment and was looking for similar comments. He really overlooked that very important point. You see this in war movies too where they are under fire or someone is injured and panicking. Really grounds you to the situation at hand.
Two lines of dialogue between Fredo and Michael and not only you already know everything about the dynamics of their relationship, but they also set the entire tone of the movie for anyone who never saw it. So masterful.
And also the sequel!
I think a whole video could be made on Vader's line "The Force is with you, young Skywalker, but you are not a Jedi yet." So much implication and subtext in just that one line: "You have ample skill, but you have come here looking for a fight and you are overmatched."
So good. Gives me chills every time I see it.
Great video Brandon, I liked Brandon how you mentioned Brandon that constantly saying someone’s name Brandon is unnatural and superfluous Brandon !
You're spot on, Alex! Thanks for watching, Alex. And, Alex, if you ever want me to cover a specific topic in the future, Alex, let me know, Alex!
hahaha!
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty hey morty we’re going on an adventure morty it’s gonna be fun morty just me and you morty
@@bv657 Winner.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty lmao while I got your attention I was curious if I can pay you to critique some of my writing! If not I totally understand
10:56 "You are muh queen, I dunno what else I can say"
Yeah it's really starting to seem that way
Spot on
I disagree about the “Rose!” / “Jack” scene, because I think it fits the context of the scene.
I’ve noticed a lot more name addressing in high stress situations because I think it helps people focus on what they’re being told because their minds are in a hundred places at once.
You see that all the time in the emergency services where the paramedics will constantly address injured people by their names before letting them know what they’re going to do next to them.
I found myself doing in fact when I’m trying to keep someone calm in the few life or death situations I’ve found myself in
Man! Am I the only one who was smiling, during the Rocky scene?
Now that’s how the really good movie works: it brings you emotions and memories. Classic 👍
Amazing movie. Has so much charm and heart
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty 100%
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Just one quick note. With the Dark Knight Rises, if they flipped the order it actually would NOT have been a bad dialogue.
Batman: I have come back to finally stop you.
Bane: No, you have come to die with your city.
See?
With the exception of the somewhat cheesy (but still heartwarming ending), Rocky is a damn perfect movie. A masterclass in writing and acting.
I think originally in The empire strikes back when solo is frozen and leya says I love you he was gonna say I love you to. But they decided it wasn't something he would say so they changed it to "I know " which works brilliantly I think
Yes that and the "scoundrel" scene is good romantic dialogue. It's so different from Attack of the Clones, and shows that Lucas badly needed writing help with the prequels.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Harrison Ford came up with the line "I know." If you know the backstory between Ford and Carried Fisher, it gets reeeeeaaaall interesting.
It really does. All the way down to him getting frozen a second later.
@@oliverford5367 no, it shows that Anakin Skywalker is NOT GODDAMN HAN SOLO! As much as I dislike Lucas' prequel writing with midichlorians and younglingers, the fact that Annie is NOT a snarky cynical smuggler with street smarts but an idealistic orphan brought in a literal monastery is not bad writing, it's him being a completely different character. Different personality, background, ideals, everything...
You can't seriously expect Aragorn to speak like Pippin or Cloud Strife to become a scoundrel like Balthier! We don't say that Murdoch is worse written than Martin Riggs simply because he's the "by the book" part of the buddy cop series. Hell, Luke in originals didn't talk like Han either and was closer to farm boy turned knight errant than the rogue sidekick. They literally argue about him being old fashioned and naive in A New Hope FFS.
@@KasumiRINA Padme's dialogue in the romantic scenes is just as terrible, and her character is older and much more worldly (wasn't she ruler of a planet before?). If it had been a contrast of her smoothness to his awkwardness that might have worked, but it wasn't, everybody was awkward and stilted.
Honestly I thought the doctor scene in requiem of a dream was a bit too silent. After the doctor takes the drugs off the counter, I would have given Jared Letto's character a line like "it's morbin time."
Hahhaha!
It's morphine time
@@juanestoz36 Mastodon!
On the point of Attack/Defend, I think a simple thing to keep in mind when writing dialogue is that everything should be motivated. Even innocuous small talk can be motivated by so many things, and a lot of those motivations comes out in the performances and the delivery. There should be a purpose for all dialogue, and it should typically reveal something about a character and their motivations. This is why expository dialogue is simply the worst because it doesn't reveal character, nor is it motivated. A good writer can deliver exposition through dialogue while simultaneously developing their character and revealing their motivations.
Youre wrong with the intent of the character Jack repeatedly saying Rose. He's using it to portray trust and belief. Cheering her on and giving up her spirits.
I’m not a writer, don’t know how I found this channel, but learning this is strangely very appealing.
Me too
The algorithm is spicing things up. I'm entertained
Learning for the sake of it is very fun when no one is pressuring you to do it :)
Same thing here brother
Lame comebacks can be amazing in comedies or when you have a character that is defined by their awkwardness or nonchalance. My favourite examples are the Big Lebowski‘s legendary „We’ll, that‘s, like, your opinion, man.“ and the Battle between Cera and Routh in Scott Pilgrim vs The World, where they just trade really bad threats that instantly fall flat, like „Tell it to the cleaning lady on Monday“ or „You once were a vegone….“
Good point. Soon as I read this, I thought of George Costanza's "The jerk store called, and they're running out of you!"
They also work when character is super badass, the BEST comeback of all time is Shepard answering the realistic UN-levels of impotence Council member mocking Shepard after being proven wrong:
"Humans have a saying, even a broken clock is right twice a day" and Shep answers "here's another saying: go to Hell" and Joker cuts the feed.
That's like Melnyk telling Elon Musk to "fuck off." The short form of "we're tired of your uppity asses Westsplaining to us and won't bother repeating the same tired reasoning of us being proven right over and over and you constantly being wrong, unhelpful and annoying, so respectfully, clear the air".
Superhero telling villain they're only here to kill him would be badass if they weren't wearing a rubber nipple suit... Shame we can't even hear that dialogue though. I wonder how Bale would actually sound if these movies had spoken words and not just noise and grunts lol.
Scooby Doo 2:
Kids: "How's it going losers"
Daphne:..."HEY! Shut up!"
Pure poetry.
Dodgeball has Ben Stiller deliver some great terrible comebacks.
@@roonilwazlib9877 You're going down like a sweet muffin, Lafluer
Some of the absolute best dialog in film takes place in Pulp Fiction. So much of it is 100% unnecessary to the plot, but, its so damn "real" that youre pulled straight into it. Brilliant
It's crazy how Tarantino can do that. The Royale with Cheese scene is iconic despite having 0 use to the plot. Same with the scene about tipping in reservoir dogs. But something about writing the mundane just works with Tarantino. I don't get it.
Those scenes are to show the personalities of the characters and get you to like/ invest in them. The idea is to make a relatable/ likeable character that then does horrible things.
Tarantino knows how to break rules
I'm glad you used Rocky as an example of good dialogue. Rocky movies get credit for being fun boxing movies but those first two rocky movies as well as Rocky 6 should get so much more credit for how incredible the writing was.
I hadn't known Stallone wrote them until recently. I'm not a huge fan of the films, or boxing generally, but I think he did a really good job writing those characters, the realism and the heart of them. He did well.
Yeah the Dialogue is awkward, clumsy it isn't very intelligent but it always has meaning behind it. So it fits the Character PERFECTLY.
The scene where Mickey was begging to train Rocky, that dialogue stacks up with any award-winning screenplay.
@@TomCruz54321It’s also a good example of repetition through his use of the phrase “You need a manager.” Each time, he says that line, you get something new: his attempt to sell himself, his growing frustration over not convincing Rocky, and his own sadness over not being able to fulfill his own dreams as a boxer.
Maybe I’m getting a little too meta with this, but I think Jack repeating Rose’s name is actually a fairly natural depiction of the kind of anomalous speech patterns that can emerge in times of utter stress.
I don't mind it, it gives a vibe that he's trying to calm her down and helping her focus. Reminds me of safety training when they tell you to specify people to do tasks rather than being general e.g. 'you, call and ambulance' vs. 'someone call an ambulance'.
This would make sense if it was the only time Jack does this, but it's a problem throughout the movie. Always bothered me how much he called her by name, it made him sound like a cult leader who repeats the name of someone to create a false sense of intimacy.
@@GalinDray LMAO me using people's names to make them psycholgically more fond of me.
@@bronumero7334 IKR Not that they were doing this here but usually it's so effen condescending.😒
Fun fact: Originally her name was Marco and his name was Polo...cuz...all the water and stuff.
Came here to say the same thing 😂
The Crow is an amazing movie. It's not perfect, but is truly iconic.
The "preachy" lines may seem that way, but it a way for him to try to get through to her.
I’m in software sales and recently randomly started studying storytelling and it’s led me down this path to dialogue and it’s so relevant for pitching / sales conversations and general speech. It’s in completely different terminology, but it’s helping me link concepts via association in my brain and I can tell that this is super effective learning. So thank you!
I can honestly see Rocky speaking Yoda’s dialogue. With the amount of devastating punches to the head he’s taken, it wouldn’t sound surprising at all to hear him jumble up the order of his words.
Haha especially after fighting Drago
When the distance I go, a champion I will become
The Rose scene cracked me up 😂 On another note, I know this isn't exactly the type of video to mention this but I think new writers should know that bad dialogue is okay to have in your early drafts, but it should be recognizable during revisions. Too often they disrupt their writing flow and never get projects done. Loved the video btw.
Thanks, and you're 100% right. Perfecting dialogue at the early stages is usually a waste of time, since you may end up cutting the entire scene during revisions
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I love the Titanic example, it's so melodramatic and apropos:
My ex and I back in college used to mock this endlessly. When we saw each other other campus I would yell from afar, "RRROWS!" And she'd yell back, "COLUMNS!"
(Obvously I love puns, but a Rose by any other name would not be just as sweet, haha #Rows!)
@@Vandylizer Hahaha! If Microsoft ever needs to advertise their Excel app, they gotta call you
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Word! 🤙
I appreciate you pointing this out! It helps forward momentum to not worry about weak dialogue on a first draft.
"The Curse of Monkey Island" has one of the most hillarious comebacks:
Rottingham: "Every enemy I've met, I've annihilated!"
Guybrush: "Oh yeah? Well... you fight like a cow!"
Just the fact that the point of duels is never the actual fighting but just insults and comebacks is why Monkey Island makes for great parody.
with your breath I'm sure they all suffocated
@@davidvosspoor4694 how appropriate you fight like a cow!
Hey man, great video!
With the morphine scene from The Crow, the dialog is fairly realistic, at least in my experience as an EMT. Where I live, we deal with a lot of ODs. As odd as it sounds, often we have to speak to these patients in a similar fashion. Doing so helps to "break the spell" over them in a way. Having someone tell them the obvious helps the reality of it click it.
It's similar in psychology. I don't think enough people understand that what is obvious to a healthy individual is not so obvious to a distressed/sick individual; especially a sick individual who is surrounded by people affirming their actions and/or has become a creature of habit.
@slithy2754 exactly. Confrontation is important. We're taught not to talk down to the patient like a child but to be forward; (Blank) is killing you/destroying your life, etc. They need someone to be direct instead of the enabling given to them by others.
The Star Wars example was spot on. Unfortunately George Lucas did the very opposite in 'The Return of the Jedi' retcon - Vaders 'no, No, NO!' dub when saving Luke. It completely ruined the original where he simply acted and said nothing at all.
Yep, some things are better off left alone. Especially major moments like that
The original Star Wars movies are great, but I never thought they could be used as examples of good dialogue. It’s hilarious that the one instance used is when there’s no dialogue. Love it.
Hahaha!
So much legendary dialog in the original trilogy, specifically from Darth Vader, Yoda… The Empire Strikes Back is a goldmine of legendary dialog, everyone remembers what Han replied to Leia when she said to him “I love you”
@@HarryPujols yes, Han replied to Leia in a famously non-scripted way.
Oh man!! George Lucas could teach a post-doc seminar on bad dialogue, but there are some gems too. I like Obi Wan's burn about the fool or the fool who follows him. A legend!
That wizard’s just a crazy old man.
When you talked about using a character's name constantly, it reminded me of the 80's cartoons that were basically 30min commercials for the toys. So the characters HAD to keep using names so the kids would know the name of the toy they wanted to buy.
“You’ve got to cut around the meat.” Taladega Nights. Best line, ever.
One of my favourite pieces of dialogue is in Smiley's People, when Esterhese says to George Smiley: "You're an old spy in a hurry George, you used to tell me they were the worst." He replies " Oh, they are. " A simple retort but it carries subtext as he's not talking about himself, but his KGB adversary Karla.
The biggest problem with preachy dialogue that I find, is how heavily it gets defended by those that are drinking the coolaid. Whenever I criticize a dialogue or a story in general as being preachy, it's often people who agree with the message who defend it and they assume I don't agree with it because I'm criticizing it. This just isn't the case. No matter how much I may or may not agree with something, if it feels preachy, I'm going to call it out for that. The people defending it care more about the message than the actual story. I care more about the writing than the message.
It's very common for comic book writers over at Marvel and DC to stick their hand up a character's ass and use them as a propaganda puppet. This is when the character says whatever the writer believes whether it fits with the character or not. Doing this almost always breaks the characters voice so, it no longer sounds like the character. Since it's often a political message, it's very hard to criticize this type of dialogue writing without the words "bigot" or "hate speech" being thrown around. What's most annoying about it is if the people read my writing they wouldn't jump to assumptions.
"The biggest problem with preachy dialogue that I find, is how heavily it gets defended by those that are drinking the coolaid."
Yes. Spot on... Stories are supposed to express themes, but there's a better way of doing that than having characters baldly state the author's beliefs.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty can you comment on the line between preachy dialogue and good dialogue from a character who is central to the philosophical conflict? In Whiplash the instructor says "the most damaging words in the English language are Good Job." I don't think anyone is certain the author agrees with this. But we know for certain the instructor does. And we know the excellent screenplay examines the idea from different angles. A bad example is Zoe Kravitz line from The Batman about white privilege. I do not recall any of the character actions or central conflicts in the film exploring the concept of white privilege.
Not sure what "preachy" message you are talking about with Marvel movies that would make you seem "bigoted." Those movies are the pinnacle of conservative propaganda. Ever noticed that every villain wants to change the world, and every hero only wants to conserve it?
@@stoopidapples1596 Yeah a strong argument could be made that it is all military industrial complex, globalist, and consumerist propaganda
Preachy like South Park or like Metal Gear Solid? There's a thing called "author filibuster" and it could be good or bad depending on writer. A good example is Kikuchiyo in the Seven Samurai. Akira Kurosawa comes from feudal class and highlights that peasants are like that because of the way they were mistreated all this time. Rest is spoilers.
Another good example is Hamlet absolutely roasting the actors overacting, something that's relevant even today, though there's much less femboys on stage now... But obviously most writers aren't even close to Shakespeare.
But on the polar opposite, there's environmentalist messages in Birdemic and the philosophical ramblings about "is it morally right to stab two old women for pocket change" in Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment.
If you do a third part, there's a specific exmple of bad dialogue writing that I often find in beginner screenplays (as a screenwriteing teacher and dramaturg here in Germany). I haven't heard of "As you know, Bob", but there is a similar form of the "telling instead of showing" problem that my mentor used to call the "Hello, I've come here to..." syndrome. This is when characters state their name, objective and relationship to everyone when walking into the door. It's a sneaky one, because on the surface it fulfills the requirement of "establish goal and conflicts for the dialogie scene", but... not like THAT! I struggle to think of any examples in professional screenplays, but I feel the 80s action movies are full of stuff like that. This can also happen vicariously through other characters, as a "He's come here to..." The most famous example is the dreadful introduction of Katana in Suicide Squad. An example of how to do this right is maybe the Usual Suspects with their precise and character-focussed yoice-over introduction round (having scene flashbacks to illustrate the introduction helps instead of having them just stand there)
I feel like a lot of cop and federal agent characters get introduced this way. They knock on someone's door and say, "Hi, I'm Agent Jones with the FBI, and..."
Encountered this in one book series, was so irritating, like, you're a pro, why instead of direct confrontation of some sort your characters keep talking about what character who's not present is feeling and what their motivation is? Either make joint plan of how to act, or trasfer it into an interaction with a person they are talking about!
But then you also have one of the greatest lines in cinema history:
In They Live when John Nada enters the bank: "I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubblegum."
With the exception of: "I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass...and I'm all out of bubble gum."
"Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die."
I really thought the good example of a hero’s comeback was gonna be “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just like… your opinion, man”
I felt like Travis Fimmel as Ragnar in Vikings is one of the best overall examples of how silence and body language can speak volumes
How about Falcon’s final speech from Falcon and Winter Soldier which is both preachy and on the nose with his, “You need to do better, Senator!”
That was pretty cringy. Yikes.
much helpful,man. surprising to know even great movies have bad dislogues
Thanks for watching! And yeah, great movies aren't perfect
I think the overuse of Rose’s name in that scene was meant to convey trust, faith in her abilities, and to keep her focused, while maintaining a commanding tone. I imagine her name at that point felt good to say out loud after the agonizing time alone facing death. He can’t believe she’s back and uses her name repeatedly to almost convince himself she’s actually there. He’s thanking her for his relief with the use of her name. Psychologically, one’s own name is always a pleasant thing to hear.
🙄
Yeah, it's there for a reason. It's not like the Director didn't notice.
Also, it was in a state of desperation, and he was trying to get her attention and to calm her down. I think the repeated name calling here is warranted.
@@DressedRunner agreed.
Also they’re in a life or death situation. So having a logical level of dialogue would be unrealistic.
Interestingly I think the Titanic example of name calling actually works. They are in a situation where they are moments from drowning, and it makes sense that he would say her name over and over again, desperately trying to focus her attention on the very specific things she needs to do for them to not die. He is helpless and cuffed and is completely reliant on her for survival, and calling out someone's name to focus their attention on what you are saying is natural.
One of my favourite dialogues is from Godfather 2 where Tom Hagen visits Frank Pentangeli at the FBI. They started with small talk about Frank's brother then Roman Empire and Corleone Family History. The dialogue gets more tension to the point Tom mentioned about the plotters get their chance to get their family safe. The deal is sealed with a handshake.
So good. Tom basically told him to take his life. And it doesn't hit the viewers hard until we see Frank in the bathroom in the Death Montage.
I just rewatched Godfather 2 last week, and you're right--that's a great exchange with some awesome foreshadowing
"Don't worry about anything, Frankie FiveAngels." A classic scene between two supporting characters.
When I'm writing dialogue, I make sure that the conversation reveals a new little piece of information to the audience in every page.
I'd like to add a thought to your point about the repetition of "You know nothing, Jon Snow" in GoT. I think a big part of the reason it works so well is because almost every time Ygritte says it, it means something different. This is a good example of G.R.R.Ms masterful use of alliteration. When she says it the first couple of times its very light and playful, but it becomes gradually more communicative as the context in which she says it shifts with the story. Depending on the context she is functionally saying a totally different phrase in every instance. "You know nothing, Jon Snow" when theyre cavorting in the mountains and giggling is totally different from "You know nothing, Jon Snow" when she has her bow drawn and an arrow aimed at his heart.
This is litterally exactly what the video said. ?
That is not what alliteration means…
@@kylezimmerman9690 you're right, i meant repetition.
That's what the video already said.
On the subject of name calling, I think the Hawkeye show handles this really well. When Yelena first meets Kate, she keeps calling her Kate Bishop. It's intentionally awkward and unnatural. Kate eventually realizes Yelena (who she knows nothing about) is doing this to intimidate her by showing that Yelena knows more about Kate than Kate knows about Yelena.
Good point
A good example of name calling I can think of is from "Indiana Jones and the Last crusade".
At the end when Connery holds Ford by one hand above the abyss and calls out to him as "Jr" without Ford reacting, since he's focused on getting the grail.
Again but more desperate "Jr!"...nothing.
Somber tone "Indiana"...and Ford finally turns around, because his Dad never called him by his chosen name before.
Good call... Amazing moment.
let it go...
such a powerful scene. I just wish they didn't mirror it almost exactly with the Nazi girl.
Good dialogue is the essence of a scene. Bad dialogue is the whisper of a scene.
I use a lot of dialogue and action, so I will keep it in mind. Very informative as always, mate 👍
Action and gestures are critical during dialogue exchanges. Especially if you put any stock into those studies about how only 17% of communication is verbal.
Love the video. Whenever I think of masterful dialogue, I think of Alfie Solomons from Peaky Blinders. I’ve never seen such long, meandering, and in the moment seemingly pointless dialogue be used to advance plot points and character development when it later gets brought back into focus. The ship scene between Tommy and Alfie from the later seasons is one example. The first time those same two characters meet is another. Tommy walks into Alfie’s office with all this “secret” knowledge about Alfie and his operation that he attempts to use to intimidate him. Including the line “I know you keep a loaded revolver in the bottom RIGHT drawer of your desk.” But then Alfie replies something along the lines of “but that’s the problem with information mate, is that a lot of times when that information comes to light it’s already too late” and he whips a revolver out of the bottom LEFT hand drawer and points it at Tommy’s head.
Just an epic confrontation and power struggle between two main characters that isn’t spoon fed to you, and you as the audience have to really be paying attention to even catch what’s going on.
Would love to see your take on some of the Peaky blinders dialogue!
I think the Titanic one can be forgiven, because it seems that in the early 1900s, calling people by name most the time was the norm. Heck, watch Charlie brown, they're always calling him by his full name, and no one dislikes that or even talks about it.
Name calling is also appropriate of they're sparkling to convey meaning to a hidden observer, like the FBI agent who bigger them. This is a good tip for crime writers and mafia leaders.
Good call. Certainly some other uses for it
Or to make a point, like Agent Smith repeatedly calling Neo 'Mr Anderson'.
One of my favorite shows for dialogue is The Sopranos. The characters speak to each other, but there are underlying tones in each conversation as they try to figure out if someone is to be trusted, and everyone is jockeying for power or to be recognized by those in charge, but danger is always present.
"It's morbin time" good dialogue
I like when people say it's Dialogin' time and Dialogued Everywhere
That “of course not” the joker says after Gordon says Harvey didn’t make it home is perfect. There’s a plethora of things he could’ve said in response that would’ve been appropriate but that “of course not” just has so much subtext and feels so natural for that moment
i swear the room is an unintended masterpiece...the "you're my favourite customer" line destroys me everytime 😭😭😂😂😂😂
You used my favorite example of bad dialogue. The constant "Jack" and "Rose" in Titanic drove me crazy! Especially since in so many of their scenes, they were the only two people in the room or in earshot. Who else would they have been talking to? It was so unnecessary!
I really wanted the comeback discussion to make mention of, "Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
I think the example of The Crow dialogue being preachy is a little off base. The context is that the women is so disconnected from reality and basic responsibility that the writer is aware that it is on the nose. It has to be to get through to the drug addict and the audience is brought into the scene because the crow has to explain it like a child to her.
This.
Love the inclusion of the Batman vs Empire example.
I often think one of the main markers of bad dialogue is when saying nothing would be more effective than what is said, and these two examples demonstrate exactly how and why that’s the case.
Yep it goes back to the old cliche "actions speak louder than words"
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty and it’s close cousin “show the audience don’t tell them.”
Do first, speak if you must.
That last one hit hard. I’ve got a lot of scenes like that in my book. It just feels logical to have an answer to a tension-building question but saying nothing is sometimes better.
I disagree with your view on Rose and Jack. It felt awkward for us the audience to hear it because it wasn’t happening to us… but for them in that moment… Jack needed Rose to concentrate on the things that were important… people are more app to listen after hearing their names spoken… AND… nothing sounds better to a person than one’s own name.. it comforts us… therefore Jack used it over and over so she could do the task at hand and not panic.
I like how "you know nothing Jon Snow" has different subtext every time it's used.
I think a really good example of repeating phrases comes from Hott Fuzz with "The Greater Good"
Ygritte will always be one of my favorite characters. Especially the book version
"I came back to die with you" would probably have been a better response from Batman.
For anyone that doesn't know "The Room" is bassed on a book about a vampire that tries one last time to find love and is even more crazy than the movie lol
Hello, Brandon McNulty. Great video Brandon McNulty. For me, the most important point was not making dialogue too real. I often get lost in that. It does make scenes mundane. I think the Dresden Files did a great job of toeing that line.
JT! Hey, JT. Thanks for the response, JT. It's been a while since I read any Dresden books, JT, but I think you're right, JT.
Best example I can come up with for relentlessly repeated dialogue is "Evil Dies Tonight! " from Halloween Kills
Love it. It all comes down to “show don’t tell”. That concept is everything. Just apply it to every aspect of writing and it works.
Another great example of effective repetition, but without the meaning changing: In the UK series Euphoria (not the US adaption), the line "Where is Jessica Hyde". It's always chilling because you know the horror that always follows it.
Have you seen The Fountainhead (1949) ? I watched it yesterday, I thought I'd be bored but I was so wrong. Idk how to qualify the dialog in this, it's beyond anything I've ever seen. Like, it was very preachy but still captivating. Every character talks with 100% honesty so it's like a parody (like the journalists trying to find a thing to be angry about "no, we already made a smir campaign against that last year") while being dead serious. But it's some sort of grandiose seriousness you could see in a fantasy/non realistic story. It'd be fine in an anime but in a realistic setting, it feels unrealistic. But that's Ayn Rand's intention tho. It just makes me like fantasy more because you can go to greater lengths without feeling off.
I need to give that one a look. I get what you're saying with the dialogue being deliberately on the nose like that, and sometimes it can work well in fantasy/absurdist stories if the worldbuilding is done right.
I think the dialogue is like that because the book and the movie are vessels for her ideology, the ultra-capitalist mirror image of socialist realism propaganda in the Soviet Union.
Very entertaining movie if you accept it for what it is- a morality play.
@@dansiegel333 yeah I wouldn't say her general storytelling skills are very good. But I like how uncompromising she is with her creative vision. That's something I really like in some animes like Kill la Kill or games like Undertale. It's this mirror on the creator's soul, they could've made their work more "acceptable" for the common people but chose artistic integrity instead. (It works less well when your skills are less good so yeah)
But I like her as a philosopher.
“Have you seen the Fountainhead?” Scariest opening sentence ever.
What if instead of saying "I came back to stop you," Batman said "I came back to _break_ you?" Then it could be a callback to Bane breaking Batman, and it would convey that Batman's goal isn't just to physically defeat Bane, but to defeat Bane's ideology, shatter his worldview, and prove Batman's own view as superior (breaking Bane's spirit).
Reading this comment before seeing that part of the video, I thought that your suggestion sounded cheesy, but after watching the clip again I think you're absolutely right.
@@KaineTube I think there may have been a copyright issue or something because that _IS_ what batman says in knightfall and then in AA VG ruclips.net/video/3suG0Ty5810/видео.htmlsi=vOVeFgMn9HRBlDXj&t=42
I think it is a great suggestion, a good improvement. When I was watching the video, I thought how nice it would have been for Batman to just say: "Yeah, whatever" and launch into Bane, as if saying (but more naturally) "let's skip the formalities, egomaniac".
Good
- Appropriate to character, setting, tone
- Attacks and defends (learn, hide, intimidate, protect, etc)
- Expresses unspoken meaning (subtext)
Bad
- Name calling. Bad because it draws attention to itself. Reserve only for either getting attention or to make a strong point.
- Preaching. Characters directly speaking the lesson to be learned, "morphine is bad for you". Use character actions to express the message instead.
- Filler dialog. Speech that doesn't push the plot forward, reveal character, no tension, not conflict, no subtext.
- Bad comebacks. Sometimes silent action is best.
I think another good example of a good comeback, that I'm sure you and everyone here is familiar with, is Tony Stark's "I am Ironman" response to Thanos at the end of Endgame. It works so well because of the subtext behind it. I felt like it rewarded anyone who remembered the first Ironman movie. I also believe those 3 words alone brought his thematic journey full circle.
Conversely, it was so painfully obvious that the rise of Skywalker was copying it. Rey's response was definitely a great example of clunky comebacks.
You nailed it with the "full circle" part. Does a phenomenal job at showing his growth. When he says it at the end of Iron Man 1, it's a jaw-dropper. When he says it at the end of Endgame, it's also a jaw-dropper, but for very different reasons
Rise of Skywalker is a case study of how to make a movie that doesn't nothing right... except end.
Rise of Skywalker is like a bad 80s action movie set in space. You can enjoy it, but only if you shut your brain off.
2 things… first… you want a movie’s dialogue to be real, convincing, authentic, but then you want it to have impact, to be entertaining…. Often at the expense of authenticity.
Second, phone conversations…. It gets my goat, so to speak, when a conversation over a phone doesn’t play out like it would in real life… as in, often times, the conversation abruptly ends without a proper ending… like, “ok, I’ll meet up with you on tatoine.” Or “ alright, I’ll disarm the bomb, you just get over here with the money.!
I’m headed out now”
Or, “ Ok, perfect! Love you! Bye!
Love you too babydoll! Bye!”
But some conversation fall flat because they don’t sound real… what’s up with that? Time constraints and they have to remove dialogue?
Yeah... It can be tricky finding the balance between sounding real and sounding too real (meaning that there's too much "natural" filler)
That works when a caller finishes abruptly and then it cuts to the annoyed face of the person on the other end. Can't remember which but some comedies have played up the Bye-See-Ya-Catch-Ya-Later-Bye game where polite callers struggle to hang up, or they are so in lurve that they have gone goofy.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty that goes with lighting....too much real lighting might not create the atmosphere... but then again atmosphere lighting might not be practical in real life..
For me personally it's a matter of whether or not it feels authentic to that specific world or character.
Like how in V for Vendetta the title character is prone to purple prose and alliteration, but any other character speaking that way would feel off.
Or even something silly like Pirates of the Caribbean where everyone is clearly a caricature based on fantastical pirate stereotypes - it still feels like a cohesive world where the dialogue generally isn't out of place.
Luke’s response of lighting his saber also shows that he’s rash and immature, ready to leap into action in opposition to what Yoda tried to teach him!
Good example for #5 would be the dialogue between Aang and Ozai before their final battle. Aang tries to plead with Ozai to stop what he is doing and Ozai responds in such a badass way. To me it really hypes up their battle even more. Its also a great example of dialogue that attacks and defends.
When the crow says, "morphine is bad for you" he is being facetious. The character's clever dark humor and irony is what set the crow apart from other murder revenge movies. The context is- even in this most serious of circumstances, he cant help but be a bit of a wise ass. It is consistent and great!
That doesn't mean it lands right anyways.
Nice try.
You realize this is all subjective. You might not think it lands while other people, myself for example, does.
I think that the line isn't good on paper where we know what's happening, but in this scene the crow is purging her body of heroin and the audience has never seen this in the mo movie, or really any other movie before. Her track marks weep white and if he isn't specifically saying morphine and implying his benevolence the audience could become confused (is it lymph, pus, something else? Is he hurting her?). The line serves the special effect and let's the audience know exactly what it happening, or even more importantly prevents the audience from getting sidetracked.
The crow by nature is preachy. He's God's judgement returned to life to right wrongs and correct the aftermath. He knows he won't be around long and needs the mother to care for the daughter because he can no longer do so.
5:30 I actually like the line "Morphine is bad for you". If felt like a capstone to the other dialogue they said, with "do you understand?" followed by something to aid her understanding. It's the words the mother had to hear, it's what she was denying and lying to herself about. The other words were fuzzy and emotional, but that line is the thing that will stick in her memory for years after.
It also made it clear what we were seeing, as the morphine being pushed out of her veins was a supernatural thing. It could have been mistaken for puss, which is what I thought it was on my first viewing.
It came off as inauthentic...no one talks like that. The very beginning dialogue was just so strange to hear someone trying to speak like they're a 15th century poet, and then immediatley cutting it with "morphine is bad." it's like a person is juggling with these fancy words, then they immediately start dropping things on the floor and you're expected to not notice. the flow is destroyed. the theme is also destroyed.
“Morphine is bad for you.” That’s exposition yo. We didn’t know what drug she was doing.
@@Tubueller it's irrelevant...its a generic "drugs are bad...mmmkay."
@@CircumcisionIsChildAbuse There are thousands of drugs. And their are people like myself who like to know the details. That’s a detail.
@@CircumcisionIsChildAbuse It’s not irrelevant. Like I said it’s exposition. Look it up if you don’t understand what that is.
Nice. As soon as you cited Name Calling, I immediately thought of Titanic. It happens throughout the movie, so much so that I can't help but wonder if it was some artistic choice. Not necessarily a good one, mind you, but deliberate.
Johnny is her favorite customer but she didn't know it was him, even though no one else looks like him. 😂
Hey Brandon, I enjoy the fact that you show us examples of what you'd consider to be good writing and bad writing. This is helpful, informative, and allows us to SEE why it can be considered good or bad. Keep up the excellent work man. I'm using your videos to help me write better character dialogue in my video edits!
The Room's flower shop scene is made to show how time is not linear in their universe. He finished conversation with greeting, their timeline is backwards and in reality chronologically Tommy is a resurrected man, pursuing his love and making Liza a better person during that. The flower shop scene is the key to the whole movie.
I always thought that Batman should have said something along the lines of
- Not quite
- We'll see
with a somewhat sadistic smile
just to hint at the dark in Dark Knight
2:50 there is one brilliant exception to this rule: psychopaths. Calling people by their name repeatedly is a manipulation tactic. You can see that one on screen too: the prologue to the pilot of Rick And Morty. Although here it may be less on purpose, but it is very apparent.
I actually think that, giving the circumstances, Jon repeating these words to Danny and everyone around and it losing its effect was (probably unintentionally) quite fitting. It's almost like he believes it less and less with everything she does and he learns about her and himself.
That's def what they were going for but they didn't really sell it.
Yes, because pretty much all dialogue - and writing in general - in the last seasons is horrible.
Like he was trying to convince himself that she was a worthy queen, that his love for her was enough for him to be loyal.
I wonder if the scene with Rose and Jack was intentional, like Jack kept repeating “Rose” to calm and direct her in a stressful situation.
Yeah, kinda dumb he didn't realize that himself😂
Bland dialogue is just a slice of life. It's relatable. I wouldn't want an entire movie of slice-of-life dialogue, but sometimes it comes in handy if we are in an intense movie and we need a breather.
I've given me a lot of ideas and shown me where I need to adjust the dialogue in a tale I'm writing. I especially like how you give us good examples verses bad examples. Thanks!