Scene Breakdown: Section 31 Interrogates Georgiou?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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The dude straight out FLINCHED when he was asked "who is really in charge?", and then evaded the question at his first opportunity. Out of the whole scene i do believe that that moment is the most informative.
There is a higher authority in the shadows, one that scares someone whom we are meant to see as an equal to the Empress in guile and cunning. One that probably knows what caused the Burn.
Hmm in theory it could have been The Terran Empire which caused it.
I do hope they explore those shadows...if written well, it could lead to something fascinating.
@@BadwolfGamer that would imply that the STO storyline is canon and that the Terran rebels reformed the empire
@@BadwolfGamer Good theory, though I'm more inclined to think that Section 31 caused it by accident.
@@maisiesummers42 Thanks! (This is my main account)
Accidently on purpose while using The Terrans as escape goats! *[THE PLOT THICKENS]*
I'm betting that guy is Terran, his glasses are to deal with the light sensitivity mentioned in Disco S1.
I agree
Yes because that would not be something easily fixed in the 32nd century at all…
was a good theory but season 5 sums it up
@@lancepagtakhan19 Although it’s infinitely more believable than it being Daniel’s, Daniel’s would be nearly 400 years old since he was born in the 29th century (Enterprise) and it’s end of the 32nd century, in STD when he declares the “red directive” over to a certain Mickey Spock.
Light sensitivity isn’t canon apparently.
this was the best part of the episode and of the season.
The lack of motivation is meant to emphasize that Terrans are often very impulse-driven. The main reason they aren't randomly running around killing each other all the time is because they are *all* like that and they have to exercise caution lest the predator become the prey. But the Terran Empire is really just an exercise in barely-restrained violence. Which makes the Terrans effective conquerors, but also limited the longevity of their Empire because once they have conquered somebody else they cannot rule well *because* they are so prone to acting on impulse rather than reason. Even Georgiou, whose self-control is exceptional for a Terran, still periodically has outbursts of sudden violence. As if she is venting the need to do so. So with Terrans it may be inverted: they *look* for motivations to justify their impulses, rather than starting from motivation. As the interrogator observes: they built an empire because they *felt* like it.
I love that you pronounce her last name properly when no one else on the shows does!
I have to admit that Terran Georgiou has become one of my favorite Trek characters. I would've liked to have seen some on screen time for Terran Tilly though.
yup l liked killy too
We never saw her it report as soon they arrive they were killed.
@@sophiawilson8696 hence my comment about "seen some on screen time"
Also, we dont actually know they were all killed (although it is likely). The admiral only says that she saw the wreckage herself. She never mentioned bodies so there is a plot hole to write in Killy's survival if the show wanted to.
We also never got to see Terran Michael Burnham either. I also would like to have seen a scene where Terran Tilly and Star Trek universe Tilly come face to face. Emperor Georgiou is the best character in this series and the best Star Trek character IMO in a long, long while. At least since Star Trek: Voyager. Along with Anson Mount's portrayal of Captain Christopher Pike.
Even Data and Lor had blinking algorithm.
I loved this dialogue. Reminds me of the DS9 ep with kira and the pretend cardassian mass murder
Also he shows her to blink. He does it multiptle times, while she is looking at him.
So section 31 has a thing of recruiting or being infiltrated by Terrans from Mirror Universe .... 🤔😏
Haha I didn’t notice that her blinking actually gets a sound effect.
My guess is, Georgiou deducted the base programming for the Holos hasn't changed much in their 900 year absence. She probably has had *some* experience with this from her days as Emperor as well as the holograms Control used.
I've often thought Terran light sensitivity also exacerbated the need for slavery and other forms of differentiating the "haves" from the "have nots". The "haves" work indoors while the "have nots" work outside in the bright harsh sun......
That being said, I think the Holos explaining biological differences between Prime Humans and Terran and attributing Terran behavior to this is similar to how we 21st century humans tend to attribute certain bad behaviors to everything from mental illness to lack of discipline (especially during childhood). Georgiou rebutts and says basically attributing any biological difference between Terrans and Humans to her behavior is utter nonsense.
The only thing I can attribute to this difference however, is light sensitivity. This exacerbates the need for slavery and other forms of differentiating the "Haves" from the "Have Nots". The "Haves" tend to work indoors while the "Havr Nots" have to work outside in the bright sun.....
I actually disagree, that this is a bad writing in the end. From an interrogation standpoint, I think, this makes perfect sense. I agree with your ideas about him creating a connection, cinematography, and the hollow test. However, the structure of information exchange in this scene seems much more intricate.
Let me break it down as I see it:
1) She breaks his badge, exhibiting destructive tendencies.
2) He immediately jumps right to the business, playing directly: “It’s clear, Emperor, what you’re capable of. What’s not clear to me is why you chose to come here.” This also is a perfect way to show the audience why is he interrogates her. His goal is to know this.
3) She deflects, showing that if he plays dumb, she will dodge the main issue: “I have a curious nature.”
4) “Really? April 5th is my birthday”, - he accepts, and starts making a loop. She deflected his question with a silly answer, and he plays along. Interestingly, he never goes far away from her and her empire. And, of course, I bet, this is not his birthday.
5) They start dancing around it, building the loop that he started. He shows that he is quite informant about the Terran Empire. She shows that she has not interiorised the religion (“it’s not like it’s a High Holy Day”). She also shows that she is some kind of a force of nature or Nietzschean superhuman (“do things simply to do them”), and he agrees. More precisely, he lets her to show off. This is still not very important, as there is meta-game in effect: he builds the general structure of the conversation and she just fills it up with the content. In general, this also creates a nice exposition.
6) He eventually finishes making the loop up asking: “Why would you ever join a Starfleet crew? If you simply wanted to butcher them, you would have”. This is his second time directly going for his main question.
7) “What if I enjoy being fetishised? And I do.”, she again deflects it with witty comments.
8) She gets bored of this game and tries to break the meta-game in the structure of the dialog, spelling it out: “I’ll answer your questions, if you answer mine first”.
9) He is, of course, not buying it: “Nnnno, you won’t really do that”. She agrees, of course.
10) But interestingly, he immediately adapts to the broken rules, basically saying that if she wants to make this meta-game so clumsy by speaking about it out loud, he can one-up her: “the only way I glean any information is via the questions you ask me”.
11) She decides to take the chance and really dig into the exposition of power. Asks two questions. He playfully teases her, saying that these are two questions. She becomes impatient and snaps: “Pick one”.
12) I agree, that this is more interesting, what he chooses NOT to answer.
13) Her impatience betrays her position: “… Federation lost its step. Or Five.”.
14) And this is when he really goes for the kill: “… the Terran Empire fell centuries ago”. And this is brilliant - he unbalances her position, cracking her defense of arrogance. And yet, this is not enough, so he lays another hit, saying “… you’re all alone now”.
15) Her position is hurt and vulnerable. Naturally, as a cornered animal, she punches with the full force, betraying her motives. You correctly noticed that she separates “whatever and whomever you hold dear”. He notices it immediately, there is a shot of his surprise. And then she puts the final nail in her coffin speaking about the general weakness of people.
16) And he finally gets her. If she really has been as psychopathic as she tried to appear, she would have not tried to return a punch (while being cornered and unbalanced) by saying that they are scared FOR someone more than OF someone. This is basically forced projection from desperation on her part. This is his caught’ya moment.
That’s why I disagree, that in the end it was a bad writing. In this standalone scene, he waited for her to (wrongfully) feel as if she had an upper hand, stepped on her victory at this precise moment, and then, while she was shocked and vulnerable, made her to betray her motives by projecting them on the Federation. This seems really as an excellently written interrogation from a masterful manipulator.
Didn’t watch the show, though. Just accidentally got charmed by this scene. :D
perhaps he's a hologram and his glasses are a device that allows him to be autonomous, much like voyagers doctors and his emitter... he may even be iin charge of section 31, perhaps for hundreds of years...and knows georgiou from when she joined after she goes back...
Then he made her grow a vhs tape and made her head explode!
What? It’s cronenberg!
So I think there is something clever here in that two-question sequence. You state that he avoids the question about who's in charge and answers the second one about the Burn. But really, his answer could easily apply to the first question as well. "There are conflicting theories" about who is really in charge.
Yea someone has pointed that out
Michelle yeoh is just badass
Who is the guy? Terran? Or just a standard human from the prime timeline? You’ve seen him before in STAR TREK: Enterprise. Agent Daniels is the actual name of the guy in the glasses.
If anything, the Emperor pwned this agent of Section 31 and didn't even flinch about it.
She used the combadge to turn off the forcefield.
out of universe characters would have no information on another universes tech
@Lore Reloaded April 5 2063 is “First Contact Day” where Dr. Zefram Cochrane met the Vulcans after he broke the warp barrier. In the mirror universe however, the Vulcans were slaughtered. This was depicted in the Star Trek Enterprise episode “In a Mirror, Darkly” using footage from the movie “Star Trek : First Contact” memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/First_Contact_Day and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_a_Mirror,_Darkly
Don't you mean it's very... De-brief?
I'll leave.
Is the man in the glasses somehow Lorca ?
Hey... this episode made a reference to Enterprise and didn't screw up continuity in the process!
I find his statement about "...the distance..." between the universes somewhat stupid. Distance?! It's not like going to Cleveland (maybe it is from a lifeform sense). The theory around multiple universes is that they occupy the same space.
I don't think that the term 'distance' is supposed to be taken literal. For instance, the distance between A and B and A and C can be different, but if you have to hike through hills to reach B, and can drive to C, C may be closer in time terms. Or, they could be different in energy expenditure required, with B being up-hill, and C being down-hill.
Think of timelines like evolutionary lines, the more different they are the more separate they are, so more distant they are. It's a way to describe it and it's very neutral in a way.
Think how spicy food works by you feeling a burn when there is no actual fire in your mouth.
Also occupying the same space is a way it works but there could be more universes be outside ours too which the mirror universe may have slid out from the prime universe.
How do you explain the big bang then? It had to come from somewhere whos to say our universe is alone?
It actual physics, there are plenty of multiverse theories, and in some, universes can be bubbles - and universe bubbles moving and even "bumping" into each other - so if they can bump into each other, they can move apart from each other
www.quantamagazine.org/multiverse-proof-possibility-from-colliding-universes-20141110/
nobody from the mirror universe matters
Great to see Cronenberg in a sci fi series.
I think her reputation is a bit closer to home for him, just not from her perspective. I'm guessing that her future Section 31 time war days are his past in a predestination paradox. Agent Daniels & the burn are from the 31st century. Now in the 3100's she just shows up on the USS Discovery NCC-1031. For all we know he is El-Aurian & was there when the last crossing happened.
Dissecting the STD scenes and episode to tweak out info is pointless like dissecting a gummy bear, its just a lump of jelly.
Alas, I don’t think that’s the case
@@LoreReloaded Truly the Best of luck to you in that endeavour. I did think this episode was the least painful to watch so far LOL. I have a theory that, all that sequence could have been "in her head" ie there is some neuralink VR tech.
Why was the ending bad writing and dumb.I felt like he uncovered something about her.
I haven't watched any of it yet because I don't like Discovery (I may wstch this season though), so I don't know for sure, but it seems like he is not only countering her "people" move, but stating that he knew that she had a connection to a person on Discovery and possibly (or at least intimating) that he knew who it was. A chess match between two people so ungodly sure of their own supremacy that they don't even openly acknowledge it.
There *is* someone on Discovery that Georgiou does indeed care deeply about:Michael Burnham. 😀 For reasons that are still unknown to us,it is clear that Georgiou shares her Prime universe counterpart's interest in Burnham, though they are not quite as close as Burnham was with Philippa. Perhaps the Empress had taken Burnham under her wing and was grooming her to become her successor,much as Philippa was grooming Prime Burnham for starship command. Perhaps they were even lovers. 😔 Such a thing was not unknown in the Mirror Universe. Of course,it's just as likely that they were bitter enemies,with Mirror Burnham patiently waiting for her time to strike. Again, in the Mirror Universe, it wasn't unusual for both of these things to be true at the same time. 🙄 Whatever the reason, it's clear that the former Empress has taken a particular shine to Burnham....and pity the poor damn fool who tries to take advantage of this.
Yeah, it feels a little aloof and offish to just throw that in without explanation at the end. Seems like he's more of an expert in cinematography than in dialogue analysis and tries to mask it. Note that whenever he says something bad about the way they talk, he rarely breaks it down as to why, just quickly follows it up by something about the visuals, often something he explained before. So, this is what he feels comfortable doing, he reverts to it like some kind of safe haven.
So, I wouldn't take the "bad writing" at face value or as anything more than an opinion until he can break it down for us.
So they didn't just throw a couple of tri-pods on the floor and hit record? I know nothing of making an entertainment show of any kind, thank you for pointing out small but important little actions taken to tell more than just what is said. Still with out the writing... We would all be entertained by mimes.
Should I apologize to the mimes around the world now or later?
😬🤐😔 I'm sorry.
(I * everything I intend as sarcasm)
(Unless I forget)
(I didn't)
Since when was this section 31?
There is something that has me curious. Earth hasn't been a part of the federation for like a hundred years, why do most of the officers we see, including the Admiral and this guy appear to be human?
I guess one answer can be that the human colonies away from Earth have grown and are now their own worlds with some planets still being a part of the federation.
Other answers? Can these officers we see be sentient holograms/isomorphs like the Doctor or Professor Moriarty or advanced AI like Soji?
Theory: He put faulty holos in to give Georgiou a false sense of superiority.
Except Terrans(particularly one in Georgiou's position)are always expecting traps and/or betrayal,never relaxed or truly at ease,mistrustful of everyone and everything and often patiently waiting for the 🔪 in the back.
It's a vicious(and often confusing)cycle:Georgiou's often expecting a trap,so every trick used against her is tailored with this assumption in mind. But how do you entrap or betray someone who is constantly expecting traps or betrayal,who suspects everyone? 🤔
That would make sense. Georgiou is going to be less guarded if she believes that she can easily control the situation. He was indifferent to what she was doing to the holograms (even shrugging) because they were unimportant for the purpose of getting information out of her. Just the opposite: she was likely to reveal more about herself if she believed that she was the smartest person in the room.
@@blairbrown4812 You feign outrage at their suspicious nature and then when they drop their guard, you attack.
@@SeansModelBuilds The question now becomes:who feigns first?
@@blairbrown4812 Whoever does may win first. Office Politics is only fun if you are winning. Otherwise it is horribly unfair and you rage impotently against 'The Rigged System.'
David Cronenberg and Michelle Yeoh in a scene together, I am so hyped.
That scene was the best thing Discovery has produced so far...
It's amazing how well they play off each other. :)
Also notice the man with the glasses actually touching his glasses during point of the debriefing. Either it's a natural movement, or it's a tell...or he's adjusting it for someone else viewing from it
He handed over his comm badge while locked in a cell with a genocidal maniac! Either he's so brave that he makes Klingons look like kindergartners or else he was quite confident that any serious move from Georgiou would trigger a rapid response from Security. The glasses could definitely be the reason.
I wonder if the glasses are themselves a programmable matter control interface of some kind, since apparently programmable matter interfaces like those installed on Discovery are tailored to be instinctual for their assigned user. If my theory holds, he was probably doing all manner of things while interviewing Mirror Georgiou. I wonder if he managed to fake her out on the whole "You broke my holos!" thing. If so, he's the craftiest SOB we've encountered so far.
Having the benefit of seeing Georgiou's future blackouts, I suspect those glasses arec connected somehow. Savouring her facile de-activation of the holos, Philippa became somewhat disarmed to Cronenberg's debriefing approach. He clearly did something to her here, and we see her unraveling ensue. And so begin other theories: screenrant.com/star-trek-discovery-georgiou-mirror-merging-theory/
@@TheAsvarduilProject programmable matter is the stupidest thing ever. was stupid in transformers was stupid here. the bluetooth nacelles couldnt operate regardless of programmable matter.
As much as I find Discovery "meh", Georgiou has grown on me.
After 3 years of this garbage...this is actually the first scene I consider memorable. I draw a complete blank to everything else.
Fun fact: Only Cronenberg can pull that oversized glasses look and even he is just barely doing it.
Cronenberg? Hold on... are you saying that guy is... DAVID CRONENBERG?!
@@BioGoji-zm5ph yes he is David Cronenberg
@@BioGoji-zm5ph yes. I knew he looked familiar and had to look up who it was. It's him.
It's always great to see a director who can act!
Elvis Costello
That interrogator guy is probably going to be a Terran himself. Why else would he express such an interest in her, and know a lot about the Mirror Universe?
For the same reason why we love Mirror Universe episodes, perhaps? Because it is often challenging and fun to deal with people with entirely different frames of reference from our own? And also because the Mirror Universe is a known danger to his own reality and has been for centuries?
Until this video I didn't think spooky 4 eyes was Terran. It does make a very interesting plot.
Again this comes back to Disco's escape from the mirror universe... Mushroom Drive and Warp Drive both operational and active at the same time with some dead spores caused by Terrans.. Perhaps this instant Lead to the universes separation. I'm thinking Some side effects or unintentional consequences...
The Mushroom sphere exploded, But we don't know the effects...
there could be a link in the mushroom root system where they caused the separation. It is like another dimension in space.
@@Bolsonaro_em_Haia But then again, he mentions how the two universes have drifted apart to the point where crossings are a rarity. Perhaps he's trying to find his way back home through her? We'll probably learn in future episodes.
If there hasn’t been contact with the mirror universe for over 500 years then why would anyone still have an interest in it? Yeah something else is going on here.
@@gateauxq4604 Militaristic empires are worth keeping an eye on, don't you think?
"in the prime universe the Vulcans are often evil", you're going to have to elaborate.
Maybe he meant Vulcans without logic and emotional control. Pretty sure they are described as more aggressive without it.
Agreed. There also a few other incorrect statements & references in this breakdown. Example - he says that the two mains characters are kept at the same eye level, yet there are one or two scenes where the camera was behind him looking down over his shoulder and you could clearly tell that he was standing and she was sitting.
Also, I'm reasonably sure that she was up to something when she was fiddling with the components from his badge after she stomped on it. I have a couple of theories about her origins - one is that she is actually from the future and/ or she could also be infected with some technology from section 31/ Control.
It's only a hunch, but something is definitely up with her...
Romulan?
he said romulans wrong
I understand the complaint that Emperor Georgiou hasnt been given to do much this season so far... but I am annoyed when some "fans" vent their frustration by attacking Michelle Yeoh
Yeah she's a great actress, fans should attack Alex Kurtzman and all those incompetent writers.
Michelle Yeoh is the one shinning light in a series that was more interested in being a champion for identity politics than to remain faithful to Star Trek lore and traditions. Emperor Georgiou is one of the most fascinating and remarkable characters in all of Star Trek. Particularly in the years following Star Trek: Voyager.
the terrans need to figure out how to stay in their lane.
Georgiou is quickly becoming one of my favorite star trek characters.
Agreed. See my comment above... _"Emperor Georgiou is one of the most fascinating and remarkable characters in all of Star Trek. Particularly in the years following Star Trek: Voyager."_
@@redeemer66666 Also true. Although the character of Emperor Georgiou is not the reason for the series failure of this series. Michelle Yeoh's performance as both captain
Philippa Georgiou and Emperor Georgiou is the one of the few shinning light in a series that has thumbed its nose at Start Trek lore and traditions.
"Section 31 interrogates Georgiou?"
More like Georgiou found a way to effectively run Section 31 from the shadows for millenia,even when she wasn't physically present.
Point of fact: "holiday" is short-hand for "holy day". And, you're right about not being "religious" to observe a "holy day". I mean, we have, in the US, several secular "holidays" that we observe besides the traditional ones. It just means that we take a day of the year for observance for whatever the occasion. Also, IMO, the holos were purposely downgraded to prevent "sentience".
Clearly, certain things never fully recovered from the A.I. ban being rescinded.
I know it may be crazy and probably impossible, but i really would love a Trek series showing a war of the Federation against the Terran Empire.
wouldn't be exactly that but I'd love many of the story arcs in STO expanded on and made into shows/movies, like the temporal war(the Terrans are a big part of that). But I don't think it would ever happen this season of discovery at least has been very refreshing its getting there its hard to see it as the same show as the first two seasons but its getting there if the rest of this season and season 4 are at least as good as the first 5 of this season, and i never thought i would say this I hope it gets renewed beyond season 4.
I would love a series set in the mirror universe about the birth, and conquests of the Terran Empire.
Put the dominion in it and I will watch it
honestly the obsession with Mirror Universe of terrans is ridiculous. Remember TNG when there were millions of Enterpises each from different Universe? But only the one that has Terrans gets attention. Others are just being ignored
Federation wouldn't last 10 seconds. Humans in ruthless mode will challenge the most bloothirsty Klingon
arent people (or at least humans) of the mirror universe slightly more photosensitive?
Yes, it was stated that way in a previous episode of Discovery.
Only in Discovery. There was never any hint of it in TOS, DS9, or Enterprise
@@ZoeMalDoran The only semi hints in the other shows was that Mirror Universe locations were almost always darker, except in TOS.
if they just found the chimeric gene 100 years ago... and there hasnt been a crossing in 500 years? which is it?
Experiments on what they already had access to. Duh. Some hidden facility where they experiment on DNA that isn't supposed to exist. . There were many opportunities to gain samples. Didn't Sisko flat out bang one of the alternates when pretending to be himself? As well as Captain Lorca, he had to have had some required physicals that Section 31 probably jumped on.
That is if it isn't a lie or disputed fact they were hoping to rattle her with.
ya i realized the flaw in my logic right after i commented, i agree totally easy for samples to have been checked after.. but it does imply then a little more than is directly stated. and they mention the standard protocol for terrans, when there has obviously been a major shake up at star fleet since the last crossing, and i found his wording of "single" crossing in 500 years interesting too. So to make what he said true, but still hiding the truth, which feels his style, would be he is from the mirror universe, and is genetically altered to live longer, and or was frozen like kahn or is kahn.... and that the burn was the mirror universe trying to bring the two back together and the remnants are this mysterious melody
There could be a group that has been in the "prime universe" (ie maybe even glasses dude) and set up base - since before the "divergence" of the universes and escape the downfall of the terran empire
also i dont think Lore Reloaded mentioned this, but the glasses would be to shield from bright lights like like how the established terrans are sensitive to light
@@BulletHole Also...
100+ years ago: The great burn happened
Starfleet: Quick, lets suddenly analyse some old Terran DNA for no reason
The federation caused the burn. They were experimenting on a new weapon or propulsion type and it back fired. They maybe trying to jump to a new Dimension with a device modulated with diluhtium and it sent a shockwave back across our dimension. Or the beings in that dimension send the burn shockwave back.
Watch the trailer for the next episode.ichsel says something the we caused it or we are responsible.
I beg to differ: Burnham programmed the _Red Angel_ to go back through the wormhole and self-destruct after sending the last signal. Chances are better than even that her suit reentered the wormhole moments before carrying out the self-destruct order, thus causing the _Burn._
@@robgyanisu312 hmmm. The fact that star fleet had a secret sub space net and hid the data it collected.
This wasnt just an interrogation. This was a scene where i believe shes been put under some form of mind control, turned into a sleeper agent. That's why she was acting all funny.
It was the glasses.. they were projecting something into her brain
@@y0uCantHandle could be, I'll have to watch it over again to get a better look.
@@nihilityjoey its only a theory based on the fact that its a piece of technology thats been outdated for over 1000 years and its cultural significance (make me look smart) has been lost for just as long
@@y0uCantHandle same, it's just a theory.
The glasses are the key to this scene.
Michelle Yeou is fantastic as Georgiou. What an amazing actor. Beautiful and evil at the same time.
And NEVER on screen for long enough. When she appears on screen with a purpose the whole series lifts.
"Biplicitous by our duology," is wordplay to further confuse the holos. They said she was *du*plicitous by her *bi*ology, so she switched it around to confuse them. From a linguistic perspective, well-done. Inventing synonyms on the spot and making puns to confuse an AI that may not be able to handle such things isn't a bad way to achieve her ends.
‘This is just bad writing and it’s dumb’. That’s baseless conjecture dressed up and asserted as fact with absolutely nothing offered to support it. That sort of criticism - especially in a video where you diligently point out the reason for the choices in direction and writing - rings hollow and undermines the video when it isn’t backed up by your reasoning, opinions, logic, or accompanying facts, in my opinion. In essence, ‘that’s a bad criticism and it’s dumb’. The rest of the video was really interesting. You made a very good point regarding him not answering a certain question and why.
I addressed it multiple times and so why I didn’t here .. or so my reasoning
@@LoreReloaded You addressed what you said was bad writing and dumb about that line In other videos?
She didn't come by circumstance. She could have left on the Enterprise instead of going with Discovery
She was on discovery by circumstance and stayed to avoid starfleet
@@LoreReloaded I might should rewatch last season, but I thought she stayed because of Michael? After all, Michael (MU)was like a daughter to her?
In season 2 - she might have been. It was horrifically written and bad story telling.
@@LoreReloaded isn't it due to - circumstances - that the Spin-off wasn't working, no funding - and she was available ;)
@@LoreReloaded I have a long-running theory about her and Disco. She had access to the Defiant's logs and looked up herself and her friends in our universe. She found out that Michael was killed when Discovery was "destroyed" but she found some record of herself post that time. She must have figured out that she went to the future with Michael and returned pre-Discovery era where she worked in the shadows. This is how Section 31 created the original red angel suit that Michael's mother used. So, Philippa is going to take Discovery back 1000 years and star on the new Section 31 show, leave the ship in the nebula where she achieved sentience (as in Calypso) and the crew will end up back with the ship for season 4 of Discovery. Convoluted, but I think it hits all the marks.
The head of S31 is the Master of Body Horror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Run Empress!
Honestly, I'm amazed he doesn't have trained Betazoids who can make heads explode like Scanners.
Random unsubstantiated theory: he's DESCENDED from Terran refugees who came over in the last crossover. So his fascination as a boy would be akin to an American child hearing his great great grandfather came from Norway who then develops a fascination with the Viking age
Hmm, Biological component leading to evil? Wow, this propaganda seems just like the views on Augments!
Terrans do suffer from a serious lack of empathy (by that I mean the emotional kind, not the psychic kind). While that could be either genetic or cultural, it is interesting how consistently evil they tend to be. There are plenty of evil people in the Prime universe, even among "good" species. But not to the extent that evil is pervasive in the Mirror Universe.
@Obi One - Kirk discovered Trump's home planet in the "The Apple".
Not sure if its intentional, but the way georgeo breaks the holos, is kinda similar to how kirk & co broke Harry Mud's gynoids in "I, Mud" & maybe l little similar to how they broke LANDRU in "Return of the Arkans"
Fans complain that Georgeo's blinking destroying the holos was ridiculous, but what Kirk, Spock, Mudd, and company did to destroy the gynoids... THAT was ridiculous!
@@Pahjx but what about what they did to LANDRU, before the Beta 3 ingabidents eventually repaired them/it & started worshiping it again?
At first the guy reminded me of Martin Landau. However, it just hit me. He reminds me of the late René Auberjonois
Horror film director, David Cronenberg!! He is as awesome in front of the camera as he is behind it......
In my opinion, Georgiou blatantly lied about how she broke the holograms and why she was blinking. She blinked weird and meaningfully, even interjecting it into the conversation by force, and fed them, as Lore Reloaded put it, 'word salad' that intentionally makes no sense. She didn't need to mess with harmonic frequencies, her mind games outplayed their simplistic interrogation routine and fried their logic circuits, to borrow Star Wars terminology.
And then, having reached the next stage of the mind game that is trying to get a consummate liar to tell you what you want to know and be truthful in doing so, Georgiou looked to the man who'd sent out the 31st century equivalent of unpaid interns at her in a probing attack and said, "Your overgrown lie detectors just broke. Your move." To which he basically responds, "That's fine, I don't need them to deal with you." And he doesn't.
To be clear, I disagree with the assessment that the holograms were substandard tech by 31st century standards. The man in the glasses wanted to see what she'd make of them, but knew that anyone who can lead an empire like she did can outsmart a system whose only purpose is to extract information with relative ease. He just wanted to see how long it would take.
Notably, in all the other circumstances I'm aware of, 31st century holograms are used as support personnel to organic diplomats, mainly as lie detectors. They're not, as a rule, terribly robust or meant to operate on their own like the man in the glasses had them doing here.
He is from the mirror universe. The glasses is because he has the same light sensitivity as Captain Gabriel Lorca had.
The "holy day" is a reference to First Contact. We see those events play in out mirror universe episodes of Enterprise.
They describe it , yea
@@LoreReloaded they don't just describe it. The Enterprise mirror arch starts with first contact. The vulcan comes down the ramp of the survey ship makes the live long and prosper hand sign, Cochran tries and fails to imitate it and guns the vulcan down with his shotgun.
A sensitivity to a harmonic frequency would be very unlikely for an AI or a hologram, the first has to be programmed to identify what it senses and ignores what it is not programmed for and the latter is a display technology. However, the blinking could be a backdoor section 31 placed in AI's in general. Using this backdoor identifies Georgio to section 31, it was her password to section 31.
This woman was the only reason I gave Discovery a chance....so justified.
Is it my faulty observation or did anyone else notice the man in glasses rapidly blinked twice at Georgiou (as if communicating) that blinking was significant- was it a moment of communication? Did the man in glasses want the holograms deactivated? There's potentially more happening here than we yet realise.
I'm just hoping they scrap this abortion of a series and Picard as well and get back to making true Trek.
Actually Enterprise showed that the Vulcan ship that landed was the same class that landed during first contact, only in the Terran timeline zephram Cochran shot the Vulcan and they pillaged the ship
Glad to see the doctor FINALLY made it home . Doctor served as the surgical chancellor for the Kyrians "Living Witness" is the 91st episode Star Trek: Voyager BACKUP PROGRAM
I'm a simple creature. I see Star Trek David Cronenberg and I click.
Georgiou are the reason i keep watching discovery. She so fascinating
I don't think that last part was bad writing. The Man in Glasses knows she is the emperor so I'm guessing he has her section 31 file and already knows about her relationship with Burnham in the mirror verse and how it extends to is one. Overall I loved this scene.
I love his really obvious clip on tie. And a shirt and suit with tie.
Given how the modern Suit evolved it makes some sense. Over generations cheats and progressive choices move from fads to trends even cheap ones could shift to become ornamental. The style of his suit coat is unique, that high lapel style was a thing in the Mod Fashion yet not as much today a covered fly it’s both futuristic yet anachronistic.
It is a bit of an old-fashioned look _today_, let alone in the 32nd century. If this is his regular outfit, he must be an exotic duck indeed. Come to think of it, maybe he is an hologram himself? Past holograms in Trek tended to favor exotic outfits.
If I had to explain it, I would consider deciding that he chose an intentionally exagerated retro look in order to establish a more predictable baseline for her reactions - and to keep her guessing. I don't think that he will keep that outfit for very long, if at all. Granted, there is a good chance that we won't see him again at all...
I find the knot consistent with that effect. It looks like cheap, rigid plastic to me. For all I know it is the 32nd century's best guess at what people used to wear in formal situations back in 1950. Or it may be a deliberate oddity to enhance the disorientation and guessing from Giorgiou.
@@Bolsonaro_em_Haia That is not a formal suit. It’s a casual suit. It’s not 50s style it’s 60-70s style in some aspects. The color is very casual work. Suits are still worn today and we know are worn throughout TNG. Picard wore 3 suits in Picard. His interview was a modified tweed, his meeting was more modern and his safari suit. The guy who’s name escapes me that was waiting at the relay station was wearing a Nahru suit which is still a type of suit just lacking a cravat.
There are lots of different types of of knots and ties for a suit so it’s again hard to say on his look would have to get more of it. Even the flash of something under the cravat could be a form of accessory. They come and go from men’s wear but tie pins and the like are well established. If there was something that flagged as obvious plant it’s his spectacles. Star Trek has gone out of its way to delete eye glasses from screen appearances as far back as TOS.
moreover his com badge was golden. Maybe he is someone really important in the ranks
@@anubhavpal5782 or they code Federation gold, Starfleet silver.
I have to admit, there was so much deception in this act that when I watched, while I made note of what was said, I'm not prepared to accept anything as canon. Is that genetic defect only when they universe hop? Is it really so much harder to cross the mirror due to "Universe drift" or does he want her to think she's trapped? Is she actually having an absent seizure or was that an act at the end? Is he section 31 or an actual civilian specialist that follows protocol? It was the same holo uniform as everyone else, were those holos Starfleet, federation or other? Is he a holo? I'm just still at the "Trust Nothing" stage.
It seems in the future where things are limited, making a floating chair and table seems like a waste of resources.
Unless anti-gravity devices are so dirt cheap putting legs on a chair would be more expensive. Or because of the money they save on writing this seasons scripts while snoozing on the toilet they need to blow the budget on unnecessary FX
I honestly think he's the one in charge and could possibly be control
Now THAT is a scary, but plausible thought.
He could be in charge but i definitely dont think his control
Didn't we see the Vulcan-Terran meeting in Enterprise?
We did, and it is relevant to the dialogue in the scene.
The Empress remains expressionless at the mention of the collapse of the Terran Empire at 8:24. The music/sound effects however places emphasis on this reaction shot. Is this the first she hears of the fall of her empire?
I would say the movements of her face are there but subtle and yea.. this is the first she is hearing of it
@@LoreReloaded Thanks for your reply. Yes, subtle is the right word, but it is a powerful moment.
A lot of dialog is a power play where you try to make the other person the object of the conversation with becoming that yourself.
"As much as I enjoy being fetishized, and I do" Love this woman!!!!!!
she is insanely beautiful. I imagine she has been fetishized by many people. she has that seductive dominatrix vibe
@@donovanjd3 You are correct sir! Imagine this, a Michelle Yeoh and Ming Na Wen sandwich...ohhhhh my!
I really love your cinematography breakdown of scenes. Insightful as always!!
Hmmm but what about the Terran uprising? He could be lying you know and The Terrans are more powerful than ever!
We now know, David Cronenberg is playing Agent Daniel from way back from Star Trek Enterprise.
Yep, the eye-blinking shutting them down was utterly stupid... It shouldn't require "head-canon" to explain how a 23d century Terran would know how to shut down 31st century AI's like this... Would have been much better if she merely "out smarted" the AI through the confusing "world salad" that was referenced here...
These scene breakdowns are awesome. I appreciate the insight. MORE, please!
As silly as it sounds, I thought it was hilarious to say “She murdered the hologram by rapidly blinking at them.” I’ll take what I can get
The blinking may have bothered you, but the man in the glasses gives her the code, (Watch carefully) I only noticed because another comment from another video of this pointed it out.
The blinking thing was just so dumb, out of left field. Like, it's 900 years later. Pretty sure the holograms would be way more sophisticated. This is like a guy from the dark ages just up and installing windows on a computer.
At ~ 6:31, it seems (somehow) vile that you trumpet your atheism as if it sets you on a level above the religious.
Sometimes, the most obtuse statements can indicate a lot about a person. By the way... I am not "religious" either, but do not feel the need to
crow about it at others' expense.
Atheists seem to want to reach the same level of self-superiority that many OTHER religious groups have. But, as we know, that
is OLD news. NO ONE is as evangelistic as atheists.
Seriously dude? She changed her way of life who really nasty personality into someone who would do anything to save Michael. I believe she really loves Michael as a daughter. I absolutely adore this character it’s so unusual on the Star Trek to see a smart arse. Cheers comical, she is strong, and I just think one of the best
How is section 31 is more operation then starfleet intelligenice........ More not real startrek Bullshit😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Genes set the foundation, but do not dictate what is built on top.
I could see mirror universe people having a gene for increased aggression, after all those that are most vicious in the Terran Empire are rewarded most. Doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be aggressive but the social structure would essential ensure that aggro-genes propagation through a species.
I'm not 100% sure on the source, so don't quote me on this, but I have a vague memory of someone within the Terran Empire venerating Khan as if he was never defeated. If the Eugenics Wars indeed turned out differently in the Mirror Universe, it wouldn't surprise me if the increased aggression genes from Khan and his fellow Augments propagated through the humans of the Mirror Universe
@@ZoeMalDoran I think some mass gene therapy was used in both universes, around the time of the Eugenics Wars in the federation timeline. I assume that's where the light sensitivity came from and perhaps went later in the mirror universe.
Did ancient Romans or Greeks have a gene for increased aggression? Or was it the culture and militaristic system they were born into that helped to sharpen their skills and encourage their aggression and violent instincts? I think the latter is true and also for the Terran Empire.
@@Locutus.Borg. The Roman and Greek Empires didn't rule by "you keep what you kill", so not comparable
@@Opey32 In terms of killing equating to territory gained through conquest by war the Greeks (Alexander the Great) and the Romans absolutely _kept what they killed._ I stand by my original comment in light of your original post at the beginning of this thread but I do agree with your last sentence in that post.
You missed the point of saying "We are not burdened by pesky motivations." She didn't say they didn't have them. She said they were not burdened by them. They didn't spend what they considered inordinate energy or time fretting over them. They just went with them.
I'm getting really tired of the blurry Starfleet HQ. My eyes can't distinguish ships from the floaty orbs and its annoying.
If you're wondering about the glasses I'll give you a hint . Admiral Thrawn of the Star wars legacy.
The way Michelle Yeoh dressed up makes her look like Shang Tsung's sister almost
Georgiou is so overrated, the character should have stayed dead. Her terran version is such a mediocre and stereotype character. Took everything good from Georgiou and made her very generic
He says the glasses aren't for him to see with they make him feel smart. One would figure that by the time of the 31st century they would have solved the need for glasses. They found a way for Geordie La Forge to see without a visor. The glasses are a device...but for what is the question.
They said it was her 2nd Universe & 3rd timeline... 3rd? Was that a clue to the blackouts she is having?
I don't think that last line was bad writing. I think you just had different expectations and don't like where they were aiming.